Gods in -31,000 DR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gods in -31,000 DR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
maddog0714
03-09-08, 01:20 PM I'm running an adventure where the PC's are thrust in the year -31,000 DR and I'm trying to figue out what gods were around at that time... I know the selderine existed, but elves had not been created as of that time, but what about other gods? not just the Faerun gods, but what about the Norse gods, or pharonic gods?
One last question, I see references to Abeir-Toril (Spelling?) what does Abier or Abier mean?
MarkusTay63
03-09-08, 02:00 PM The Elves of that time worshipped other gods - they did not know of the Seldarine, as per the GHotR.

Weird, huh?

They might have been the Yuir Totems, or the Faerie Court (conjecture).

Probably the only gods around would be Selūne, Shar, Mystra, and perhaps Jergal.

There were also some sort of 'Shadow Lords' or some such, that I remember from another thread, but I know nothing about them.

Also, there may have been the Seven Lost Gods, but I have a feeling they didn't show up until the Creator Races did - they seem like the kind of primordial powers they would have worshipped.
Lord Karsus
03-09-08, 08:08 PM -At -31,000 DR, there were no Elves on Abeir-Toril yet. The first Elves migrated to the planet circa -27,000 DR. More information on the early days of Abeir-Toril, concerning Elves can be found in Elves of Faerūn.

-At this point in time, the deities of the Sarrukh, the Batrachi, Aearee, and the Dragons all definitley exist and operate in Realmspace.

-Abeir-Toril means in an ancient language, 'Crade of Life'.
The Ubbergeek
03-10-08, 12:42 AM [QUOTE=Lord Karsus;15300017-At this point in time, the deities of the Sarrukh, the Batrachi, Aearee, and the Dragons all definitley exist and operate in Realmspace.[/QUOTE]

Sset (?) was the only one I am sure they worshipped (well, the Sarrukh). Not sure who else was mentioned so early... except the primordial ones as Markus said, perhaps.
Zsych
03-10-08, 01:20 AM I'd say that the main powers would still be Selune, Shar, Mystryl, Jergal and... Targus(the pre-Tempus dude)??? Ghanaudar would probably be a greater diety :)
... Although with very different alliances(with other gods of that time), and very different worshippers, the gods we know would probably have different priorities in those days.
The Ubbergeek
03-10-08, 02:48 AM Moander also may have been primordial... or united with Ghaun?
MarkusTay63
03-10-08, 03:01 AM I think Moander may have been one of those pesky 'self-aware' Avatars that break off ocassionally from a god. Probably Ghaunadar's original Faerūnian aspect, and then later, after it it 'seperates' from its main aspect, Ghaunadar itself shows up to give him/it a what-for. :D

At least, thats how I picture it in my Realms.

That kind of crap happens to the 'Scaley Gods' all the time - seperating, and then re-absorbing... it gives me a headache trying to figure them all out sometimes.

Question: Isn't at least one of them already associated with Jubilex? :confused:
Old Sage
03-10-08, 04:42 AM From Demihuman Deities:- "Although Ghaunadaur is a distinct entity unrelated to the tanar'ri lord Juiblex, the Faceless Lord, or the otherwise unnamed Elder Elemental God neither of the latter two powers is active in the Realms, and Ghaunadaur has assumed both of their aspects within the crystal sphere of Realmspace."

Read the claim about the Elder Elemental God in light of the fact that much of Ghaunadaur's writeup is taken directly from descriptions of the EEG, which is itself distinct from Juiblex.

Juiblex is a Demon Lord in the D&D core rules. In the Realms, he had some worshipers in 2e's Thay IIRC. When Demihuman Deities, and the other god books, were being worked on there was some desire to tidy up some of the gods, thus Juiblex became an aspect of Ghaunadaur in the Realms. Similar things happened to the 2e god of liches in Monster Mythology becoming an aspect of Velsharoon and Sseth garnering many different aspects.
Argaud
03-10-08, 07:37 AM Io, the great dragon god, was definitely around. And maybe some other dragon gods too.
Jiggawha
03-10-08, 07:43 AM Faerie gods (Titania, Oberon ... Yuir totems?)
Dragons (Xymor/Bahamut, Tamara, Null, etc. or just Io/Asgorath)
Serpents (Merrshaulk, Shekinester, Jazirian, M'daess, Essylis, Semuanya, Ssharstrune, Sss'thasine'ss)
Batrachi (Zhoukodien?, Ramenos)
Giant (Annam, Othea, etc.)
Aearee (Akadi, Remnis, Raven, Crocaa, Quorlinn, Aerdrie Faenya?)
other elemental gods
Ubtao
Ulutiu?
Panzuriel?
Piscaethces
Lord Karsus
03-10-08, 09:30 AM Sset (?) was the only one I am sure they worshipped (well, the Sarrukh). Not sure who else was mentioned so early... except the primordial ones as Markus said, perhaps.

-The World Serpent.
MarkusTay63
03-10-08, 01:08 PM The World Serpent I can see, but most of the others (Giants, Dragons) only arrived when their worshippers did. They may have existed back then, but they would not have had a presence in Realmspace.

Ulutiu and Ubtao are both definate possibilites, especially considering they are Realms-specific deities. Maybe they belong to some common Pantheon back then, where all the gods began with 'U'. :D

Herne is a possibility, since he most likely predated Malar in FR.
Draco Spirit
03-10-08, 01:46 PM The elemental deities should be there too.
maddog0714
03-10-08, 03:27 PM Thanks to everyone for their input... That helped alot.
I can always count on this board for help....
(Everybody should appriciate these boards, I treat it like a "Judges Guild" if there is something I don't know..... People shouldn't be rude, like some who will remain nameless I seen on another topic.)
Lord Karsus
03-10-08, 05:11 PM The World Serpent I can see, but most of the others (Giants, Dragons) only arrived when their worshippers did. They may have existed back then, but they would not have had a presence in Realmspace.

-As long as they have followers there, those deities would have a footing on Abeir-Toril. No one was (I know I wasn't) implying that they'd be politically powerful, or anything.

Thanks to everyone for their input... That helped alot.
I can always count on this board for help....
(Everybody should appriciate these boards, I treat it like a "Judges Guild" if there is something I don't know..... People shouldn't be rude, like some who will remain nameless I seen on another topic.)

-How is that ancient campaign going, anyway?
BadCatMan
03-10-08, 08:35 PM The Faerie Gods, Titania and Oberon were mentioned in Elves Of Evermeet - but were explicitly removed in Demihumans Of The Realms. They don't exist in the Realms. Unless there's another reference?

I'm of the opinion that Shar, Selune, Mystryl, Targus et al all started out in the Netherese Pantheon (as shown in Netheril) and thus were not around in the old days. The War Of Light And Darkness is then simply a Netherese creation myth. I'd say Chauntea too, but I'm not sure of her, and Jergal is a bug-man, so who knows where he came from.
Old Sage
03-10-08, 09:17 PM The Seelie and Unseelie Courts are referenced in Demihuman Deities [published the same year as Demihumans of the Realms], and is Realms-specific :- "The Seldarine are closely linked with the gods of the Seelie Court and other sylvan deities, and the Fair Folk often include prayers to other faerie powers when worshiping the Seldarine." And:- "While such powers have close ties to the elves, they are not counted as part of the Seldarine." So Titania, Oberon, the Queen of Air and Darkness, etc. do/did exist in the Realms.
BadCatMan
03-10-08, 10:13 PM Okay. I guess the reference and subsequent removal should be interpreted to read that the Lythari specifically (they were context of the references in EoE and DHotR) don't worship Titania and Oberon.
Lord Karsus
03-10-08, 11:25 PM -If they aren't implicitly removed, they still exist. That goes for all deities, not just the Seelie and Unselie Courts.

-And, I agree on the matter of the Shar-Selūne-Mystra creation myth, BCM.
maddog0714
03-11-08, 02:22 PM -As long as they have followers there, those deities would have a footing on Abeir-Toril. No one was (I know I wasn't) implying that they'd be politically powerful, or anything.

-How is that ancient campaign going, anyway?

Well, the PC's followed a prison world, or moon on a collision course with toril made of anti magic thru a worm hole from grey space to toril, but the worm hole led to the year -31,000 DR. They destroyed the moon, but the moon held the essence of Atropus, an elder evil, who took the form of the moon and is now circling Toril at close range, systematically eradicating the geography it passes over. (Epic version of Atropus)
The Leshay at this time was one of the creator races, and rulers of that time, but during the catastropy, I had most of them eradicated from the moonlets attack, in which only a few escaped, which is supposed to be the history of the Leshay, and theire legend of a catastrophe long ago, and altering time.
What do you think so far? I know there are probably some inconsistentcies with this story line, but hey, it's fantasy right?
Krash
03-13-08, 07:37 AM I've always held the view that the standard FR take on the gods personified them too much.

To me, the gods were always about concepts: war, disease, nature, beauty, music etc. And to different cultures/races, the god for this particular concept was different (but the same). In other words, kind of like the likely 4E take on deities of the Realms.

So in -31,000 DR, you could have any gods you wanted, but simply put, the god of war and battle to the primitive human tribes of the present-day Shaar was unlikely to be known as Tempus and likely had another name. Same with the gods of anything you might want worshipped - the sun, the moon, hunting, weather, knowledge, magic et. al.

-- George Krashos
Zanan
03-15-08, 06:37 AM I've always held the view that the standard FR take on the gods personified them too much.

-- George Krashos

Though IMHO, that was only because of a few novel series about the deities themselves or their background, like the Times of Troubles - trilogy, the War of the Spider Queen - sixtet, or Evermeet. Within the setting as such, FR-alien Mulhorand and named events apart, the deities hardly had such an, let's say Greek way of directly* intervening with the affairs of the mortals.

*In person. There might be a few more incidents, but by and large, over 30,000odd years, not that much. One major problem might have been caused my the omnipresence of Mystra's Chosen though. Not the deities' fault though.
MarkusTay63
03-16-08, 02:18 PM I've always held the view that the standard FR take on the gods personified them too much.Then you must really hate the 4e take on them - they are back to just being epic encounters, aren't they?

From what I understand, the new 'goal' in the game is to rise up high enough to challenge the gods, and perhaps become one youurself.

I just can't wait to see the problems THAT will cause when all those Living Realms players start hacking up the FR gods and taking their place......

IN CANON! :ahem:

I'm with you; 1e had it right. You can stat out the God's avatars, and perhaps overcome THEM, but the gods themselves should be unassailable by mortals.
Quale_
03-16-08, 02:32 PM that depends on your imagination of what god is

I don't understand why would players want to become gods, doesn't that end the game
Lord Karsus
03-17-08, 07:05 AM -maddog, I need you e-mail again. I sent you that e-mail on Saturday monring, and it bounced back to me. Either the address you wrote in the PM, or the one I copied down, was incorrect.
maddog0714
03-17-08, 10:14 AM -maddog, I need you e-mail again. I sent you that e-mail on Saturday monring, and it bounced back to me. Either the address you wrote in the PM, or the one I copied down, was incorrect.

maddog0714@hotmail.com
zaku41k
03-22-08, 01:17 AM that depends on your imagination of what god is

I don't understand why would players want to become gods, doesn't that end the game

Not really. Divinity 0 character can always take it deeper into Nine Hell or Abyss.
Heck, instead of fighting Avatars and Aspects, why not fight the Demon Princes themselves?
Wolf_BladeGX
03-31-08, 04:26 AM Originally Abeir was tacked onto the begining of Toril to put it at the top of the Old Gray Boxes Index. I just read about that a few min ago on Wikipedia, so I think it's true.
Lord Karsus
03-31-08, 04:28 AM Originally Abeir was tacked onto the begining of Toril to put it at the top of the Old Gray Boxes Index. I just read about that a few min ago on Wikipedia, so I think it's true.

-Yes, yes that is true. Jeff Grubb added the 'Abeir' so that it would appear at the beginning index. Don't think it was the "Old Grey Box", though. That said, 'Abeir' was never anything, until the 4e designers made it something different.
Morholdt
03-31-08, 10:57 AM Magic of Faerun, pg. 4 tells the legend of the creation.

It places, Selune, Shar, Chauntea and Mystra as the first gods.

In fact, Chauntea begging for warmth from Selune was the start of the war between Shar and Selune, and so Chautea predates Mystra.

In short, Chauntea definately existed in -31000 DR.
Lord Karsus
03-31-08, 11:20 AM In short, Chauntea definately existed in -31000 DR.

-Not necessarily. I'll show you why:

Magic of Faerun, pg. 4 tells the legend of the creation.

;)
Wolf_BladeGX
03-31-08, 06:42 PM -Yes, yes that is true. Jeff Grubb added the 'Abeir' so that it would appear at the beginning index. Don't think it was the "Old Grey Box", though. That said, 'Abeir' was never anything, until the 4e designers made it something different.

My bad, It was the original FR box set. I don't know what I was thinking that involved a gray box... :weep:
Lord Karsus
03-31-08, 08:47 PM My bad, It was the original FR box set. I don't know what I was thinking that involved a gray box... :weep:

:: Shrug ::

-I've never actually seen either one, so...
Iakhovas
03-31-08, 10:49 PM No, you're correct Wolf_BladeGX. The old gray box *is* the 1st-Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Within that gray box was the 'Cyclopedia of the Realms' which includes the reference to Abeir-Toril on page 19.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
maddog0714 03-09-08, 01:20 PM	I'm running an adventure where the PC's are thrust in the year -31,000 DR and I'm trying to figue out what gods were around at that time... I know the selderine existed, but elves had not been created as of that time, but what about other gods? not just the Faerun gods, but what about the Norse gods, or pharonic gods? One last question, I see references to Abeir-Toril (Spelling?) what does Abier or Abier mean?
MarkusTay63 03-09-08, 02:00 PM	The Elves of that time worshipped other gods - they did not know of the Seldarine, as per the GHotR. Weird, huh? They might have been the Yuir Totems, or the Faerie Court (conjecture). Probably the only gods around would be Selūne, Shar, Mystra, and perhaps Jergal. There were also some sort of 'Shadow Lords' or some such, that I remember from another thread, but I know nothing about them. Also, there may have been the Seven Lost Gods, but I have a feeling they didn't show up until the Creator Races did - they seem like the kind of primordial powers they would have worshipped.
Lord Karsus 03-09-08, 08:08 PM	-At -31,000 DR, there were no Elves on Abeir-Toril yet. The first Elves migrated to the planet circa -27,000 DR. More information on the early days of Abeir-Toril, concerning Elves can be found in Elves of Faerūn. -At this point in time, the deities of the Sarrukh, the Batrachi, Aearee, and the Dragons all definitley exist and operate in Realmspace. -Abeir-Toril means in an ancient language, 'Crade of Life'.
The Ubbergeek 03-10-08, 12:42 AM	[QUOTE=Lord Karsus;15300017-At this point in time, the deities of the Sarrukh, the Batrachi, Aearee, and the Dragons all definitley exist and operate in Realmspace.[/QUOTE] Sset (?) was the only one I am sure they worshipped (well, the Sarrukh). Not sure who else was mentioned so early... except the primordial ones as Markus said, perhaps.
Zsych 03-10-08, 01:20 AM	I'd say that the main powers would still be Selune, Shar, Mystryl, Jergal and... Targus(the pre-Tempus dude)??? Ghanaudar would probably be a greater diety :) ... Although with very different alliances(with other gods of that time), and very different worshippers, the gods we know would probably have different priorities in those days.
The Ubbergeek 03-10-08, 02:48 AM	Moander also may have been primordial... or united with Ghaun?
MarkusTay63 03-10-08, 03:01 AM	I think Moander may have been one of those pesky 'self-aware' Avatars that break off ocassionally from a god. Probably Ghaunadar's original Faerūnian aspect, and then later, after it it 'seperates' from its main aspect, Ghaunadar itself shows up to give him/it a what-for. :D At least, thats how I picture it in my Realms. That kind of crap happens to the 'Scaley Gods' all the time - seperating, and then re-absorbing... it gives me a headache trying to figure them all out sometimes. Question: Isn't at least one of them already associated with Jubilex? :confused:
Old Sage 03-10-08, 04:42 AM	From Demihuman Deities:- "Although Ghaunadaur is a distinct entity unrelated to the tanar'ri lord Juiblex, the Faceless Lord, or the otherwise unnamed Elder Elemental God neither of the latter two powers is active in the Realms, and Ghaunadaur has assumed both of their aspects within the crystal sphere of Realmspace." Read the claim about the Elder Elemental God in light of the fact that much of Ghaunadaur's writeup is taken directly from descriptions of the EEG, which is itself distinct from Juiblex. Juiblex is a Demon Lord in the D&D core rules. In the Realms, he had some worshipers in 2e's Thay IIRC. When Demihuman Deities, and the other god books, were being worked on there was some desire to tidy up some of the gods, thus Juiblex became an aspect of Ghaunadaur in the Realms. Similar things happened to the 2e god of liches in Monster Mythology becoming an aspect of Velsharoon and Sseth garnering many different aspects.
Argaud 03-10-08, 07:37 AM	Io, the great dragon god, was definitely around. And maybe some other dragon gods too.
Jiggawha 03-10-08, 07:43 AM	Faerie gods (Titania, Oberon ... Yuir totems?) Dragons (Xymor/Bahamut, Tamara, Null, etc. or just Io/Asgorath) Serpents (Merrshaulk, Shekinester, Jazirian, M'daess, Essylis, Semuanya, Ssharstrune, Sss'thasine'ss) Batrachi (Zhoukodien?, Ramenos) Giant (Annam, Othea, etc.) Aearee (Akadi, Remnis, Raven, Crocaa, Quorlinn, Aerdrie Faenya?) other elemental gods Ubtao Ulutiu? Panzuriel? Piscaethces
Lord Karsus 03-10-08, 09:30 AM	Sset (?) was the only one I am sure they worshipped (well, the Sarrukh). Not sure who else was mentioned so early... except the primordial ones as Markus said, perhaps. -The World Serpent.
MarkusTay63 03-10-08, 01:08 PM	The World Serpent I can see, but most of the others (Giants, Dragons) only arrived when their worshippers did. They may have existed back then, but they would not have had a presence in Realmspace. Ulutiu and Ubtao are both definate possibilites, especially considering they are Realms-specific deities. Maybe they belong to some common Pantheon back then, where all the gods began with 'U'. :D Herne is a possibility, since he most likely predated Malar in FR.
Draco Spirit 03-10-08, 01:46 PM	The elemental deities should be there too.
maddog0714 03-10-08, 03:27 PM	Thanks to everyone for their input... That helped alot. I can always count on this board for help.... (Everybody should appriciate these boards, I treat it like a "Judges Guild" if there is something I don't know..... People shouldn't be rude, like some who will remain nameless I seen on another topic.)
Lord Karsus 03-10-08, 05:11 PM	The World Serpent I can see, but most of the others (Giants, Dragons) only arrived when their worshippers did. They may have existed back then, but they would not have had a presence in Realmspace. -As long as they have followers there, those deities would have a footing on Abeir-Toril. No one was (I know I wasn't) implying that they'd be politically powerful, or anything. Thanks to everyone for their input... That helped alot. I can always count on this board for help.... (Everybody should appriciate these boards, I treat it like a "Judges Guild" if there is something I don't know..... People shouldn't be rude, like some who will remain nameless I seen on another topic.) -How is that ancient campaign going, anyway?
BadCatMan 03-10-08, 08:35 PM	The Faerie Gods, Titania and Oberon were mentioned in Elves Of Evermeet - but were explicitly removed in Demihumans Of The Realms. They don't exist in the Realms. Unless there's another reference? I'm of the opinion that Shar, Selune, Mystryl, Targus et al all started out in the Netherese Pantheon (as shown in Netheril) and thus were not around in the old days. The War Of Light And Darkness is then simply a Netherese creation myth. I'd say Chauntea too, but I'm not sure of her, and Jergal is a bug-man, so who knows where he came from.
Old Sage 03-10-08, 09:17 PM	The Seelie and Unseelie Courts are referenced in Demihuman Deities [published the same year as Demihumans of the Realms], and is Realms-specific :- "The Seldarine are closely linked with the gods of the Seelie Court and other sylvan deities, and the Fair Folk often include prayers to other faerie powers when worshiping the Seldarine." And:- "While such powers have close ties to the elves, they are not counted as part of the Seldarine." So Titania, Oberon, the Queen of Air and Darkness, etc. do/did exist in the Realms.
BadCatMan 03-10-08, 10:13 PM	Okay. I guess the reference and subsequent removal should be interpreted to read that the Lythari specifically (they were context of the references in EoE and DHotR) don't worship Titania and Oberon.
Lord Karsus 03-10-08, 11:25 PM	-If they aren't implicitly removed, they still exist. That goes for all deities, not just the Seelie and Unselie Courts. -And, I agree on the matter of the Shar-Selūne-Mystra creation myth, BCM.
maddog0714 03-11-08, 02:22 PM	-As long as they have followers there, those deities would have a footing on Abeir-Toril. No one was (I know I wasn't) implying that they'd be politically powerful, or anything. -How is that ancient campaign going, anyway? Well, the PC's followed a prison world, or moon on a collision course with toril made of anti magic thru a worm hole from grey space to toril, but the worm hole led to the year -31,000 DR. They destroyed the moon, but the moon held the essence of Atropus, an elder evil, who took the form of the moon and is now circling Toril at close range, systematically eradicating the geography it passes over. (Epic version of Atropus) The Leshay at this time was one of the creator races, and rulers of that time, but during the catastropy, I had most of them eradicated from the moonlets attack, in which only a few escaped, which is supposed to be the history of the Leshay, and theire legend of a catastrophe long ago, and altering time. What do you think so far? I know there are probably some inconsistentcies with this story line, but hey, it's fantasy right?
Krash 03-13-08, 07:37 AM	I've always held the view that the standard FR take on the gods personified them too much. To me, the gods were always about concepts: war, disease, nature, beauty, music etc. And to different cultures/races, the god for this particular concept was different (but the same). In other words, kind of like the likely 4E take on deities of the Realms. So in -31,000 DR, you could have any gods you wanted, but simply put, the god of war and battle to the primitive human tribes of the present-day Shaar was unlikely to be known as Tempus and likely had another name. Same with the gods of anything you might want worshipped - the sun, the moon, hunting, weather, knowledge, magic et. al. -- George Krashos
Zanan 03-15-08, 06:37 AM	I've always held the view that the standard FR take on the gods personified them too much. -- George Krashos Though IMHO, that was only because of a few novel series about the deities themselves or their background, like the Times of Troubles - trilogy, the War of the Spider Queen - sixtet, or Evermeet. Within the setting as such, FR-alien Mulhorand and named events apart, the deities hardly had such an, let's say Greek way of directly* intervening with the affairs of the mortals. *In person. There might be a few more incidents, but by and large, over 30,000odd years, not that much. One major problem might have been caused my the omnipresence of Mystra's Chosen though. Not the deities' fault though.
MarkusTay63 03-16-08, 02:18 PM	I've always held the view that the standard FR take on the gods personified them too much.Then you must really hate the 4e take on them - they are back to just being epic encounters, aren't they? From what I understand, the new 'goal' in the game is to rise up high enough to challenge the gods, and perhaps become one youurself. I just can't wait to see the problems THAT will cause when all those Living Realms players start hacking up the FR gods and taking their place...... IN CANON! :ahem: I'm with you; 1e had it right. You can stat out the God's avatars, and perhaps overcome THEM, but the gods themselves should be unassailable by mortals.
Quale_ 03-16-08, 02:32 PM	that depends on your imagination of what god is I don't understand why would players want to become gods, doesn't that end the game
Lord Karsus 03-17-08, 07:05 AM	-maddog, I need you e-mail again. I sent you that e-mail on Saturday monring, and it bounced back to me. Either the address you wrote in the PM, or the one I copied down, was incorrect.
maddog0714 03-17-08, 10:14 AM	-maddog, I need you e-mail again. I sent you that e-mail on Saturday monring, and it bounced back to me. Either the address you wrote in the PM, or the one I copied down, was incorrect. maddog0714@hotmail.com
zaku41k 03-22-08, 01:17 AM	that depends on your imagination of what god is I don't understand why would players want to become gods, doesn't that end the game Not really. Divinity 0 character can always take it deeper into Nine Hell or Abyss. Heck, instead of fighting Avatars and Aspects, why not fight the Demon Princes themselves?
Wolf_BladeGX 03-31-08, 04:26 AM	Originally Abeir was tacked onto the begining of Toril to put it at the top of the Old Gray Boxes Index. I just read about that a few min ago on Wikipedia, so I think it's true.
Lord Karsus 03-31-08, 04:28 AM	Originally Abeir was tacked onto the begining of Toril to put it at the top of the Old Gray Boxes Index. I just read about that a few min ago on Wikipedia, so I think it's true. -Yes, yes that is true. Jeff Grubb added the 'Abeir' so that it would appear at the beginning index. Don't think it was the "Old Grey Box", though. That said, 'Abeir' was never anything, until the 4e designers made it something different.
Morholdt 03-31-08, 10:57 AM	Magic of Faerun, pg. 4 tells the legend of the creation. It places, Selune, Shar, Chauntea and Mystra as the first gods. In fact, Chauntea begging for warmth from Selune was the start of the war between Shar and Selune, and so Chautea predates Mystra. In short, Chauntea definately existed in -31000 DR.
Lord Karsus 03-31-08, 11:20 AM	In short, Chauntea definately existed in -31000 DR. -Not necessarily. I'll show you why: Magic of Faerun, pg. 4 tells the legend of the creation. ;)
Wolf_BladeGX 03-31-08, 06:42 PM	-Yes, yes that is true. Jeff Grubb added the 'Abeir' so that it would appear at the beginning index. Don't think it was the "Old Grey Box", though. That said, 'Abeir' was never anything, until the 4e designers made it something different. My bad, It was the original FR box set. I don't know what I was thinking that involved a gray box... :weep:
Lord Karsus 03-31-08, 08:47 PM	My bad, It was the original FR box set. I don't know what I was thinking that involved a gray box... :weep: :: Shrug :: -I've never actually seen either one, so...
Iakhovas 03-31-08, 10:49 PM	No, you're correct Wolf_BladeGX. The old gray box is the 1st-Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Within that gray box was the 'Cyclopedia of the Realms' which includes the reference to Abeir-Toril on page 19.