Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shiftkitty 04-14-08, 04:00 PM	I may have asked this question before, but I don't think I ever asked it as a thread, usually as just an aside. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but here goes: Is there any official backstory on Gromph except for what's in the 2e "Menzoberranzan" box set? Anything? Anywhere? Novels? Notes? I know as a DM I'm always free to make up my own, but if there are other sources out there I can draw on, they'd be very useful. Novels I have read/am reading are Homeland, Exile, Sojourn, The Crystal Shard, and War of the Spider Queen. I'm putting things together based on what these novels have in them (whether or not Gromph is in them). Of course, I'm always hungry for more.
Lord Karsus 04-14-08, 04:59 PM	-Most of the mentions of his backstory are in scattered references in novels. I know that the Starlight and Shadows trilogy, particularly the first book, has some new insights that were, until then, previously unmentioned, as far as I know.
Shiftkitty 04-14-08, 06:42 PM	One thing that caught my attention, and it may be from a 2e book of villains underneath an entry for Jarlaxle, was that he spent some time in his youth "adventuring". Any insights on this?
DrakulDraequel 04-14-08, 08:15 PM	Well, considering that Jarlaxle is a Baenre, I am sure that they have participated in Patrol Exercise and fought the denizens of the Underdark together. With excursions to the surface of course, as is the norm.
Zanan 04-15-08, 03:59 AM	Dragon 302 has the most recent full write-up as well as a few notes on his character et al. Obviously, one may very well dig through the WotSQ series as well as Daughter of the Drow to find the odd remakr about his current activities, motivations, and plans.
Shiftkitty 04-15-08, 03:40 PM	I suppose the lurid details of his life are up to my fevered imagination, then? I have the Dragon issue that has his stats and WotSQ (haven't finished yet), but I have batted around details that build up to his psychological development, one of which is the still-being-developed notion that he wasn't actually born into the House Baenre but was "acquired" at a young age because Yvonnel Baenre wasn't about to let a wonderful prophecy happen in another house. This depends on some other factors, however: I believe that Quenthel was originally from another house. Does anyplace say which house, or what the details are of this? Who's older, Gromph or Quenthel? By how much? Are Dantrag, Jarlaxle, and Berginyon (sp?) Gromph's only brothers, or are they the only ones that we know of? Any record of who Gromph's father is? How indulgent was mother when it came to Gromph? (Somehow I got the impression that he was rather spoiled as far as males go.) These are four potentially pivotal questions that may allow for or completely tear apart my musings. They have no actual bearing on the game, I just want to be sure that if I tell a decent backstory at some point in the game, I don't have to go back and redo things should I read something niftier in a novel. (I hate those "Why didn't I think of that?" moments!)
Zanan 04-15-08, 07:15 PM	Since I am falling fast asleep now, just a few bare facts ... This is House Baenre as far as we know: + + + House Baenre, First House of Menzoberranzan Triel Baenre (fd, P16 - P20 - *Clr) Matron Mother Gromph Baenre (md, M20 - *Div16/Acm4) Archmage of Menzoberranzan Quenthel Baenre (fd, P10 - *Clr15/Dis4) Mistress of the Arach-Tinilith Vendes Baenre (fd, Clr/T) Sos'Umptu Baenre (fd, P) * Keeper of the Baenre House Chapel Jeggred Baenre (m draegloth, *Bbn9/Ftr4) Son of Triel Baenre & her personal bodyguard Merith Baenre (fd, P) adopted into the House Waevra Baenre (fd, *Clr) traitor & renegade Andzrel Baenre (md, *Ftr?) Weapon Master of House Baenre, Cmdr. Of the Army of the Black Spider Zal'therra Baenre (fd, *Clr) Cousin of Triel, Cmdr. Of the Army of the Black Spider Nauzhror Baenre (md, *Abj?) Cousin of Triel, Master of Baenre, acting part time Archmage of Menzoberranzan Maigneth (fd, *Ftr?) one Captain of the House Guard Wilara Baenre (fd, *Clr?) personal attendant to Triel Vrellin Baenre (md, *Ftr?) Nephew of Triel Prath Baenre (md, *Wiz5 or 6?) 1st year student of Sorcere, in his 30s Julani Baenre (md, *Evo?) Master of Evocation Grendan Baenre (md, *Ill?) 10th year student (at Sorcere), favors Illusions Noori Baenre (fd, *Div?) Cousin to Gromph and Triel, 10th year student (at Sorcere) Zoran Baenre (md, *Wiz?) 2nd year student (at Sorcere) Zillak (maybe no Baenre) (md, *Rog?) prime assassin of Gromph Jarlaxle Baenre (md, F17 - *Ftr) fmr. leader of Bregan D'aerthe Liriel Baenre (fd, F8/M9 - F8/M10 - *Ftr1/Clr3/M11) renegade, wandering surface Yvonnel Baenre (fd, P25) fmr. matron, killed near Mithril Hall Bladen'kerst Baenre (fd, P14) killed near Mithril Hall Dantrag Baenre (md, F18) weapon master, dead Bergynion Baenre (md, F) renegade, member of Bregan D'aerthe Yerri'thal Baenre (?d, ?) the most accomplished swordsmith in all Menzoberranzan.s legendary history + + + Other Houses and clans can be found here: http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=420 Regarding age and all, the Menzoberranzan boxed set is the main source here. From how I read it, Gromph is older than Triel.
Phelf_Der_Zemit 04-15-08, 08:40 PM	There was a brother between Jarlaxe and Gromph. His name was Doquaio and he was a fighter type. When Matron Baerne attempted to sacrifice him (per the ritual and tradition of drow worshiping Lolth) for being the third born son, GrandMatron Obalardo (Sp?) set a kinetic energy field aroud him. Doquaio was ordered to pick up the Third Son, and was abruptly void of life as his body was slashed to ribbons by a knife of mental force. This makes Jarlaxe the Second son of the Baerne house. Hope it helped. ps. All the Baenre are spoiled. or atleast as much as any drow are cappable of being spoiled.
Shiftkitty 04-15-08, 10:19 PM	I thought Dantrag was secondboy? Or did he become thirdboy by virtue of Doquaio's death? (I thought Jarlaxle was younger than Dantrag? And what book is that in?) Also, any information on House X'larraz? All I have is their brief mention in the Menzoberranzan box set.
Phelf_Der_Zemit 04-15-08, 10:33 PM	Dantrag was recognised as secondboy, as Jarlaxe's Non-death was covered up and he sequestered from the house's public eye, for it would have shown disfavor on the house had Lolth seemed to think the sacrifice not up to par. Dosquaio was I think to die of a different alment. This is all covered in Road of the Patriarch.
Zanan 04-16-08, 04:39 AM	There was a brother between Jarlaxe and Gromph. His name was Doquaio and he was a fighter type. When Matron Baerne attempted to sacrifice him (per the ritual and tradition of drow worshiping Lolth) for being the third born son, GrandMatron Obalardo (Sp?) set a kinetic energy field aroud him. Doquaio was ordered to pick up the Third Son, and was abruptly void of life as his body was slashed to ribbons by a knife of mental force. This makes Jarlaxe the Second son of the Baerne house. Hope it helped. ps. All the Baenre are spoiled. or atleast as much as any drow are cappable of being spoiled. It would be good if you can name the source of the above and give a correct spelling, so I can include them in my collection.
Lord Karsus 04-16-08, 08:59 AM	It would be good if you can name the source of the above and give a correct spelling, so I can include them in my collection. -Road of the Patriarch. He/she said that.
Zanan 04-16-08, 01:05 PM	-Road of the Patriarch. He/she said that. That was a post latter. :incog: And given my age, I don't read that many posts a day any longer before falling asleep! :cool: (Though I always read yours in detail, of course! :detect: )
Lord Karsus 04-16-08, 01:35 PM	That was a post latter. :incog: And given my age, I don't read that many posts a day any longer before falling asleep! :cool: -Your age...Just how old are you? I always figured you were around my age, but... (Though I always read yours in detail, of course! :detect: ) -Well, of course. I encourage everybody to do the same.
Shiftkitty 04-16-08, 03:40 PM	Well, it sounds like I'm up to my own to figure out what went on in his life until just shy of his getting leashed to the city. Glad you guys straightened out the birth order thing for me. Lets me shuffle a few things around. I've got his early years marked by what would be typical youthful rebellion in human terms, including several wild hairstyles (which would later inspire younger brother Jarlaxle to adopt his famous look), a tattoo of a spider web (but he isn't saying where), and a carefully hushed up fetish about human females. I also decided that fresh unicorn blood is a narcotic to the drow, and Gromph pays handsomely to his supplier. If you're nice to him, he may let you stand somewhere nearby and listen to the poor creature's death rattle as he drives a butcher knife through its throat. (And if you're a human female, he'll make you drink a specially prepared dose...) I've also given him an artistic side, and he relaxes by working on light sculptures. I borrowed this from the image of Lloth in the Baenre chapel and decided that Sos'umptu got Gromph squarely in her corner by giving a suggestion that would let him shine as an artist, even if it did involve a fair bit of sucking up. That it honked off Quenthel was just icing on a very bitter cake. I once wrote up a bizarre family tree that inadvertently made him Drizzt's cousin, and had the drow traced anything through the male side of the family it might have actually meant something. (I do believe Zaknafein was a commoner by birth. Forgetting all about Drizzt, I made Zak's brother to be Gromph's father and already had him firmly entrenched in my notes before my husband pointed out the patrilineal tie-in.) I have other things scattered here and there, including further twists on Gromph's personality and what he does in his spare time, but I'll leave those alone until I've read the books and can fit them in or dismiss them altogether. Like I said, it's nothing critical game-wise. I just don't want to have to go back on myself later when some glaring inconsistency shows up.
Lord Karsus 04-16-08, 04:35 PM	I have other things scattered here and there, including further twists on Gromph's personality and what he does in his spare time, but I'll leave those alone until I've read the books and can fit them in or dismiss them altogether. Like I said, it's nothing critical game-wise. I just don't want to have to go back on myself later when some glaring inconsistency shows up. -The official Forgotten Realms are Faerūn 616. Your campaign takes place in Faerūn 212. Feel free to diverge from the official setting when you want! :)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-16-08, 08:45 PM	-The official Forgotten Realms are Faerūn 616. Your campaign takes place in Faerūn 212. Feel free to diverge from the official setting when you want! :) Seconded.
Lord Karsus 04-16-08, 11:07 PM	Seconded. -I learned that from you, you know. Sure, that was how it always was, but it really set in because of you, and your championing of it.
Phelf_Der_Zemit 04-17-08, 07:08 AM	And I do feel obliged to point out on any further occasions that any of my fellow board members feel the need to correct me (or even honor me with a complaiment, boasting my ego further than it already is...) "He" would be the correct term of endearment. And I hope the whole secondboy thing helped.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-17-08, 11:45 AM	-I learned that from you, you know. Sure, that was how it always was, but it really set in because of you, and your championing of it. :embarrass Glad my teachings are sinking in!;) :D
Lord Karsus 04-17-08, 12:38 PM	And I do feel obliged to point out on any further occasions that any of my fellow board members feel the need to correct me (or even honor me with a complaiment, boasting my ego further than it already is...) "He" would be the correct term of endearment. -Hey, don't want to unintentionally insult you by giving you the wrong gender. ;) :embarrass Glad my teachings are sinking in!;) :D -Too bad Mr. Misc isn't around no more. That'd probably make my discussions and back-and-forths with him much easier.
Shiftkitty 04-17-08, 03:14 PM	And I hope the whole secondboy thing helped. Yes, it helped much! Fortunately my mistake didn't cause me to rewrite much, just to make notes of who was where during several short story ideas I've kicked around called the "When Jarlaxle Had Hair" series.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-17-08, 09:00 PM	-Too bad Mr. Misc isn't around no more. That'd probably make my discussions and back-and-forths with him much easier. Well, don't mistake good luck for bad luck, if you catch my meaning.;)
Lord Karsus 04-17-08, 11:08 PM	Well, don't mistake good luck for bad luck, if you catch my meaning.;) -So true...
MarkusTay63 04-18-08, 12:37 PM	But he did stir things up, you have to admit. And he occasionally made a very good point. ;) Without him, most of the 'pro-4e' crowd has turned their 'cheerleading' down a notch, and some are even starting to agree with us... I may have to switch sides again just to take up the slack. :P
Lord Karsus 04-18-08, 12:53 PM	But he did stir things up, you have to admit. And he occasionally made a very good point. ;) Without him, most of the 'pro-4e' crowd has turned their 'cheerleading' down a notch, and some are even starting to agree with us... I may have to switch sides agian just to take up the slack. :P -Actually, on second thought and review, I am happy he does not post regularly here anymore, though he has logged on recently. With him, it seemed that every time he "opened his mouth", it was a pot-shot at either myself, or someone else, and with my fiery temper, I always respond in turn, sparking arguments that, at times, made logging on and talking not very much fun.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-18-08, 04:01 PM	With him, it seemed that every time he "opened his mouth", it was a pot-shot at either myself, or someone else... Yeah, I don't like it when people spend more time here complaining about other posters than actually talking about the Realms setting.
MarkusTay63 04-18-08, 04:29 PM	Aren't YOU guys doing just that? :P ;) :D
Lord Karsus 04-18-08, 04:36 PM	Aren't YOU guys doing just that? :P ;) :D -No, I'm just mentioning it for the sake of explaination of my actions and reasoning.
MarkusTay63 04-18-08, 06:04 PM	I think House Baenre will fall (probably through Jarlaxle) by the time 4e hits, and Gromph will escape and find a new profession - Gromph Baenre, Attorney at Law. :D
sfdragon 04-18-08, 06:13 PM	that ought a be a anime show, have him sue Harvey birdman, and bird girl and then kill peanut I thought that B. Baenre was killed off in the servant of the shard
Shiftkitty 04-18-08, 07:21 PM	I have no idea who's been killed off when. I haven't read all of the books yet, so I just resurrected everybody I wanted to. Some things have gone off the deep end (Yvonnel Baenre is a statue in a powerful wizard's house, and the only part of her moving is that litle vein throbbing in her head), others were the result of some serious and spectacular battles (Quenthel is now trapped in a little arrowhead-shaped, amber-colored jewel and is hanging around Gromph's neck), while others are lurking in the background, waiting to prey on the PCs (Bladen'kerst surrendered her body and soul to the entity of pure malevolence that calls itself Lolth so that it can rebuild its power and exact its revenge against those ungrateful males and "New Thought" females, and eventually take its place as conqueror of all). Markus Tay Gromph as an attorney? Well, I believe his name does translate out as "Thundering Judge" or "Judge of Thunder". Heh heh, I like the idea... In our less-than-serious game, Gromph has a daughter named Minomph (Daughter of the Judge or Daughter of Thunder, I'm not sure which) who, despite her ominous name, has turned out to be the Shirley Temple of Menzoberranzan. She's initiated diabetic shock in many a priestess with her sugary sweetness. Her sunny optimism gets on everybody's nerves...
Lord Karsus 04-18-08, 11:32 PM	I think House Baenre will fall (probably through Jarlaxle) by the time 4e hits, and Gromph will escape and find a new profession - -That wholly depends on how much the Underdark is changing. Being as that Drow are still more or less normal old Drow, eliminating House Baenre serves no real purpose. But, then again, the Weave "needed" to be eliminated so that the new magic system could be used, so...:rolleyes:
MarkusTay63 04-19-08, 09:24 AM	Menzoberranzan is stagnant - it is the only Drow city that hasn't had any major 'House-Shakeups' in hundreds of years (aside from the Oblodra fiasco, which was caused by outside forces). I don't know why Lolth even stayed there during the ToT - not only didn't it make sense (her temple city, which is MUCH larger, is in the south) because of the story RAS wrote around it (a single, quick appearnce? RAS made it seam as if the ToT only lasted a couple of days), but also because the Menzoberranzan Drow have made the least number of changes down through the years, making their behaviour EXTREMELY un-chaotic. The only reason why they put in that Lolth went there is because it is RAS's 'pet city', but it really made no sense. The same house (Baenre) has been in charge for how many years? After all their failures? Menzoberanzan has become boring and predictable; If RAS wants to save his precious Drow from the 'yawn monster', he needs to shake things up in 4e. As of right now, I have NO interest in reading anything that takes place in Menzoberranzan. That gawd-awful WotSQ series was such a major disappointment that I've lost all desire to read anything else Drow. Just about every world in the D&D multiverse has Drow, and Lolth chooses three from Toril as her champions? I love FR as much as the next guy, but until I see some lore that says Abeir-Toril is THE most important world in the universe, that makes no sense what-so-ever. I want to see Jarlaxle return, the triumphant son, and imprison his sister, using his Bregan D'aerthe, and leave Gromph in charge of the 'day-to-day' affairs (Jarlaxle of course will immediately move onto the next 'fun thing'). That would be a 4e book worth reading, with Gromph (and his wizards) secretly allying with Bregan D'aerthe, and Jarlaxle's people convincing all the cities 'dredges' (slaves, lower class, and males) to side with them, or at least stay neutral in the conflict. A coupe taking the city away from the females would be VERY interesting, especially if the other houses stayed in tact, and were forced to except Jarlaxle or Gromph as the 'Patron Father' of his house. :D The city, being run by Gromph, with him using Bregan D'aerthe as his 'secret police' would be awesome, and if they bring back Ryld to control Melee Magthere, that would give them (the males) two of the three major power centers (the other being Gromph's Sorcere). Considering how ill-treated Ryld was by Lolth's priestesses, I think bringing him back would be a pretty cool plot device... especially if he were some form of sentient undead (some sort of 'heartless' deathknight?).
Phelf_Der_Zemit 04-19-08, 12:36 PM	The fact that she didn't go to her temple city could have very well been just because she was chaotic...
MarkusTay63 04-19-08, 12:49 PM	If you want to believe that, fine. But I still think its only because Drizzt came from Menzoberranzan. That city is one of the smallest, and should be one of the most insignificant, but thanks to RAS, everyone seems to think its the most important. Far from it, actually. I think it should of been wiped out during that last attack. Considering 90% of Bregan D'aerthe was off in Calimshan, and none of the priestesses had any magic, the only thing that kept it standing was plot armor. If nothing changes in it for 4e FR, then in 4e, Chaos must = BORING.
Shiftkitty 04-19-08, 12:51 PM	Menzoberranzan is stagnant - it is the only Drow city that hasn't had any major 'House-Shakeups' in hundreds of years (aside from the Oblodra fiasco, which was caused by outside forces). I don't know why Lolth even stayed there during the ToT - not only didn't it make sense (her temple city, which is MUCH larger, is in the south) because of the story RAS wrote around it (a single, quick appearnce? RAS made it seam as if the ToT only lasted a couple of days), but also because the Menzoberranzan Drow have made the least number of changes down through the years, making their behaviour EXTREMELY un-chaotic. The only reason why they put in that Lolth went there is because it is RAS's 'pet city', but it really made no sense. The same house (Baenre) has been in charge for how many years? After all their failures? Menzoberanzan has become boring and predictable; If RAS wants to save his precious Drow from the 'yawn monster', he needs to shake things up in 4e. As of right now, I have NO interest in reading anything that takes place in Menzoberranzan. That gawd-awful WotSQ series was such a major disappointment that I've lost all desire to read anything else Drow. Just about every world in the D&D multiverse has Drow, and Lolth chooses three from Toril as her champions? I love FR as much as the next guy, but until I see some lore that says Abeir-Toril is THE most important world in the universe, that makes no sense what-so-ever. I want to see Jarlaxle return, the triumphant son, and imprison his sister, using his Bregan D'aerthe, and leave Gromph in charge of the 'day-to-day' affairs (Jarlaxle of course will immediately move onto the next 'fun thing'). That would be a 4e book worth reading, with Gromph (and his wizards) secretly allying with Bregan D'aerthe, and Jarlaxle's people convincing all the cities 'dredges' (slaves, lower class, and males) to side with them, or at least stay neutral in the conflict. A coupe taking the city away from the females would be VERY interesting, especially if the other houses stayed in tact, and were forced to except Jarlaxle or Gromph as the 'Patron Father' of his house. :D The city, being run by Gromph, with him using Bregan D'aerthe as his 'secret police' would be awesome, and if they bring back Ryld to control Melee Magthere, that would give them (the males) two of the three major power centers (the other being Gromph's Sorcere). Considering how ill-treated Ryld was by Lolth's priestesses, I think bringing him back would be a pretty cool plot device... especially if he were some form of sentient undead (some sort of 'heartless' deathknight?). Dude, it's almost like you're playing in my drow campaign... AAAGH! GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!! Except that Gromph's titles are things like "Magelord", "Revered Father", and "The Archmage", besides "Patron Father". Ryld, BTW, is alive and well. A little necromancy goes a long way to keeping loyal cohorts alive.
MarkusTay63 04-19-08, 01:00 PM	With his heart eaten by the Jeggred, I just thought it might be a little more interesting for him to come back as 'something else'. :devil: Glad to know I'm not the only one who's finding the 'changeless Menzoberranzan' a total yawn-fest lately. :)
Lord Karsus 04-19-08, 01:32 PM	But I still think its only because Drizzt came from Menzoberranzan. That city is one of the smallest, and should be one of the most insignificant, but thanks to RAS, everyone seems to think its the most important. Far from it, actually. -Menzoberranzan, more or less, is HIS city. As such, he sets his novels there, because he knows it. He doesn't know Goulidorth (or however the city is spelled). I don't mean in an actual facts way, but in a familiarity way. If you know what I mean.
MarkusTay63 04-19-08, 02:07 PM	And if RAS and Drizzt did not exist, I can pretty much gaurantee Lolth would NOT have appeared in Menzo during the ToT. More of the 'writers wrapping the world around their needs', rather then producing consistent lore. Sorry... I'm on the Warpath since Elaine dropped out... :(
Shiftkitty 04-19-08, 05:47 PM	I can sympathize with RAS setting everything in what amounts to an otherwise small town, because by necessity I have to set a lot of my personal writing in obscure villages or completely invented, but even I, a completely unpublished authoress (except for some poetry awhile back), try to keep those places as dynamic as is reasonable. As historical fiction, I have to keep sensible to certain aspects, but when the Green Dragoon (based on the original, not the Mel Gibson version) re-enters a small town he once partied in during the Revolution but now its 1796, he'll find things have changed. I'm not sure how much time has passed between Menzoberranzan's first appearance and the latest, but surely, even in the lifespan of elvenkind, and given the nature of the place, something must have changed. Moral depravity is one thing, but stagnation breeds complacency, and complacency is tantamount to a death sentence in drow society.
Lord Karsus 04-19-08, 07:36 PM	And if RAS and Drizzt did not exist, I can pretty much gaurantee Lolth would NOT have appeared in Menzo during the ToT. -Yes, probably. Keep in mind, though, that without Salvatore, and Drizzt, there might not have even been a Time of Troubles, as the setting could have theoretically bombed. I mean, how many people had their first exposure to the setting via Drizzt? More of the 'writers wrapping the world around their needs', rather then producing consistent lore. -Which would you rather have? Salvatore having Lolth in Menzoberranzan, or Salavore having Lolth in Guiwhatever, where he makes continuity errors? As I said, Menzoberranzan is more or less his city. If he wants Lolth to destroy House Oblada, no one winks an eye. If he wants Lolth to destroy the most powerful house in Guiwhatever? Then people complain, as this house was actually the most powerful, and then this, and then that... -You know, all of the stuff that we normally do.
Shiftkitty 04-19-08, 08:25 PM	This is why I use the novels for inspiration only. As far as I'm concerned, D&D novels are simply a re-telling of what happened in someone else's campaign. I decided that Menzo needed shaking up, so I shook it up. I don't fault RAS. Menzo is probably the most vivid of the cities in his imagination, and as I like what I've read so far, I'll keep buying more of his work. But I regard them for reading entertainment only. They may influence or inspire my game, but they won't dictate it.
Zanan 04-20-08, 10:14 AM	LK ... it ain't that hard to actually check for the correct names, else one could easily get the impression you want to make fun of the names and the designers on purpose. Menzoberranzan is more or less RAS' brainchild, alas, he wrote much if not all of the Menzoberranzan boxed set, after all. As has been said many a time, Lloth was a spelling mistake which grew a few arms and legs afterwards, only to be reversed in the last books of AD&D. The in-game (temporary) why's have actually been explained in Demihuman Deities.
Lord Karsus 04-20-08, 11:59 AM	LK ... it ain't that hard to actually check for the correct names, else one could easily get the impression you want to make fun of the names and the designers on purpose. -The conversation doesn't matter enought for me at actually feel like getting up from my computer seat and venture upstairs to find the correct spelling of a meaningless tangent in the discussion.
Shiftkitty 04-20-08, 12:50 PM	Hate to jump into this because I see it as a personal discussion, but I've got to back His Lordship on this. As long as we know who he means, who cares how he spells it? Or as Andrew Jackson once said, "It's a small mind that can only think of one way to spell a word." I used to be a spelling tyrant until I read this one. It's like he reached through time and smacked my inner-English teacher on her ass. (For the record, AJ's spelling could get pretty hellacious.)
Lord Karsus 04-20-08, 02:42 PM	As long as we know who he means, who cares how he spells it? -Not who, where. ;)
XHereticX 04-20-08, 04:21 PM	-The conversation doesn't matter enought for me at actually feel like getting up from my computer seat and venture upstairs to find the correct spelling of a meaningless tangent in the discussion. Just type in the spelling on google and it will usually somewhat correct you or lead you in the right direction. That's what I do:) . Also, a smaller city with superior organization and magical ability can easily surpass a large, disorganized city of rabble like Llurth Dreir. The fact that Menzo is enough of a distance away from the real drow powerhouses like Guallidurth helps as well.
Shiftkitty 04-20-08, 04:41 PM	-Not who, where. ;) I must have been locked onto your spelling of RAS's name as Salavore. I totally skipped over the Guiwhatever, probably because I never have to spell it. (For that matter, there's also Drizzt's kitty's name.) Although if it showed up on a resume for any reason, I'd probably recommend immediately hiring the applicant!
Zanan 04-20-08, 04:58 PM	-The conversation doesn't matter enought for me at actually feel like getting up from my computer seat and venture upstairs to find the correct spelling of a meaningless tangent in the discussion. You continue to reply often enough to state your interest though ... and citing someone's quote out of the head actually underline's the point I made. In any case, those whom you addressed knew who you were talking about and were satisfied with the way you did it. :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 04-20-08, 06:18 PM	I must have been locked onto your spelling of RAS's name as Salavore. I totally skipped over the Guiwhatever, probably because I never have to spell it. (For that matter, there's also Drizzt's kitty's name.) Although if it showed up on a resume for any reason, I'd probably recommend immediately hiring the applicant! -Heh, 'Salavore'. No, that's a complete and utter typo. I didn't even realize that I wrote that incorrectly until you just pointed it out. :P You continue to reply often enough to state your interest though ... and citing someone's quote out of the head actually underline's the point I made. In any case, those whom you addressed knew who you were talking about and were satisfied with the way you did it. :rolleyes: -You're dragging this thread off-topic, Zanan. We all know how much you hate that...:rolleyes:
Straploknight 04-20-08, 11:56 PM	I think House Baenre will fall (probably through Jarlaxle) by the time 4e hits, and Gromph will escape and find a new profession - Gromph Baenre, Attorney at Law. :D Wonder if his legal clerk will be named Peanut?
Zanan 04-21-08, 03:12 AM	-You're dragging this thread off-topic, Zanan. We all know how much you hate that...:rolleyes: Not dragging in any direction, just noted my disapproval and had hoped for a change. Won't take it up from here again. BTW, MarkusTay63, it would be rather unfeasible that House Baenre falls given its power within the city. The designers are apparently pushing for a distinctly early-(A)D&D look of the drow, with evil drow females in command. Then again, Chaos is Lolth's prime fun (I wouldn't be surprised to see the drow alignment shifts back to CE) and the designers having fun toppling anything established too ... Given they obviously want it neat and simple, I can also envisage that 80% of the known drow settlements will be cleaned of the roster too, if one "ooh & aah" Vault of the Drow is good enough for an entire setting, so can be almighty little Menzo for the Realms ...
Shiftkitty 04-21-08, 03:23 PM	I don't think it unreasonable that Baenre won't be the First House forever. Poor leadership and inner turmoil can topple mighty empires regardless of how firm they believe their footing is. I don't know who the current Matron Mother is (is it Triel? I haven't finished WotSQ.), but if she can't hold the ship together, other, more ambitious and probably less self-controlled potentials may scuttle the house in their bid for power. Of course, an author can craft their worlds anyway they see fit.
Lord Karsus 04-21-08, 03:30 PM	I don't know who the current Matron Mother is (is it Triel? I haven't finished WotSQ.), but if she can't hold the ship together, other, more ambitious and probably less self-controlled potentials may scuttle the house in their bid for power. -Yes, her status as Matron Mother of House Baenre continues to be unchallenged, for now.
Phelf_Der_Zemit 04-21-08, 10:09 PM	Seeing it last forever is the unreasonable assumption. Forever is a long time. In the space of forever Gods topple. Lolth could die and then the whole city will fall to the rather of some other Drow worshiping another god completely (most likely, and sadly Shar). I will see the Baerne's fall before my time is done... Maybe not by my hand, but by time itself.
Zanan 04-22-08, 04:40 AM	Seeing it last forever is the unreasonable assumption. Forever is a long time. In the space of forever Gods topple. Lolth could die and then the whole city will fall to the rather of some other Drow worshiping another god completely (most likely, and sadly Shar). I will see the Baerne's fall before my time is done... Maybe not by my hand, but by time itself. Baenre. A house that rules their place longer than AFAIK any other single line of royalty or ruler within the Realms. For more than 5,000 years, actually. Shar would be a very poor choice, not by the drow, but the designers. In any case, people should not simply equate drow power with deity power. Even if a deity vanishes, there are power groups (within the Houses) who could take over in no-time, like the wizards or similar arcane casters. DotUD actually mentions the warlocks as being quite powerful too, given that the Lolthites view them as being somewhat blessed by Lolth's demons. (That's DotUD logic though.)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-22-08, 01:23 PM	-Heh, 'Salavore'. No, that's a complete and utter typo. I didn't even realize that I wrote that incorrectly until you just pointed it out. :P I thought that typo was funny, like "Salavore, salivate".:P I agree that Menzoberranzan isn't as important in-setting as it might seem to be based on its prominence in published sourcebooks, but I also agree that without Salvatore and the Drizzt books, how many people would care about the Underdark at all, anyway? And I hate to say it, but it's also possible the setting might not have sold as well without Salvatore.
Lord Karsus 04-22-08, 03:37 PM	I thought that typo was funny, like "Salavore, salivate".:P -I was thinking 'Salavore', like a 'carnivore'. Maybe a 'Salavore' is someone who eats up all of the Drizzt books? And I hate to say it, but it's also possible the setting might not have sold as well without Salvatore. -Oh, of course not. Drizzt as as popular as he is because he enjoys so much success, right? And, Drizzt novels were how many people's first steps into the setting? Though it embarasses me at this point, I used to be "one of them". :embarrass
Shiftkitty 04-22-08, 03:47 PM	Maybe a Salavore is a salivating carnivore.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-22-08, 03:55 PM	-I was thinking 'Salavore', like a 'carnivore'. Maybe a 'Salavore' is someone who eats up all of the Drizzt books? Indeed. :rofl: -Oh, of course not. Drizzt as as popular as he is because he enjoys so much success, right? And, Drizzt novels were how many people's first steps into the setting? Though it embarasses me at this point, I used to be "one of them". :embarrass Oh, don't be embarrassed. The Crystal Shard was the first Realms novel I ever read, myself.:)
Lord Karsus 04-22-08, 03:56 PM	-Possibly. Or an animal that only eats Sal. I should probably call him (the Sal I know), and let him know to watch out...
Phelf_Der_Zemit 04-22-08, 08:58 PM	Shar would be a very poor choice, not by the drow, but the designers. In any case, people should not simply equate drow power with deity power. Even if a deity vanishes, there are power groups (within the Houses) who could take over in no-time, like the wizards or similar arcane casters. DotUD actually mentions the warlocks as being quite powerful too, given that the Lolthites view them as being somewhat blessed by Lolth's demons. (That's DotUD logic though.) The chose itself seems to already to have been made. I myself am "Shared" out, but there seems to be a formidable rising of Sharrens in the ruins in Chesed Nasad (Spelled horriably). It will only take a matter of years before it has spread to surrounding areas (including Menzo). Though I agree that it would be a bad choose. Sadly, I don't think that the designers are off there Shar high. Lord knows I am. The whole warlock thing, while with the wizards and other arcane types might rule for a while, I imagine the tempt of the shadow weave (or what ever it's 4E counterpart will be) would be rather appeasing. and in the end they will be out numbered. This is all very sketchy though as it hinges on the fact that Lolth will die. Which I doubt happens.
Lord Karsus 04-22-08, 08:59 PM	This is all very sketchy though as it hinges on the fact that Lolth will die. Which I doubt happens. -Well, the fact that she has been mentioned in a few 4e preview articles in the present and future tenses doesn't lend much help to that theory. Supposedly, there is a Countdown to the Realms article that will be released soon specifically concerning various deities in the Forgotten Realms. So, keep an eye opened.
Zanan 04-23-08, 04:54 AM	The chose itself seems to already to have been made. I myself am "Shared" out, but there seems to be a formidable rising of Sharrens in the ruins in Chesed Nasad (Spelled horriably). It will only take a matter of years before it has spread to surrounding areas (including Menzo). Though I agree that it would be a bad choose. Sadly, I don't think that the designers are off there Shar high. Lord knows I am. Ched Nasad & spelt/-led horribly ;) The Sharrans in Ched Nasad came from one House which survived. The reports on survivors and their power structure are conflicting though. For the place was about to be taken over by the Jaezred Chaulssin at the end of WotSQ, while Underdark (beforehand) mentioned a dominant role of a former minor house (not Sharrans), a blue dragon, and some Sharrans. Lady Penitent Ionly took up on the story of the minor House (neither the Jaezred Chaulssin, nor the blue dragon, nor the Sharrans.
Phelf_Der_Zemit 04-23-08, 07:26 AM	true. true. again this is all heavy speculation which probably won't happen. It's just as likely that a planar rift will open somewhere in the underdark.
Zanan 04-23-08, 11:58 AM	true. true. again this is all heavy speculation which probably won't happen. It's just as likely that a planar rift will open somewhere in the underdark. NEVER give strange or downright silly suggestions on this board! It could well be that ...
Lord Karsus 04-23-08, 11:59 AM	true. true. again this is all heavy speculation which probably won't happen. It's just as likely that a planar rift will open somewhere in the underdark. -Well, there are plenty of planar rifts in the Underdark. The Lower Dark is full of rifts that lead to the Plane of Shadows. :P
Straploknight 04-23-08, 03:26 PM	-Which would you rather have? Salvatore having Lolth in Menzoberranzan, or Salavore having Lolth in Guiwhatever, where he makes continuity errors? As I said, Menzoberranzan is more or less his city. If he wants Lolth to destroy House Oblada, no one winks an eye. If he wants Lolth to destroy the most powerful house in Guiwhatever? Then people complain, as this house was actually the most powerful, and then this, and then that... -You know, all of the stuff that we normally do. Vector Prime - nuff said!
Zireael 04-28-08, 03:04 AM	Having Sharrans in Ched Nasad gives it some flavour... eg. hunt down Zesstra Arkhenneld. :D :D :D But the main power there is House Teh'Kinrellz. As for Gromph & wizards: Are there many warlocks in Underdark? Any specific examples?
Lord Karsus 04-28-08, 12:27 PM	Vector Prime - nuff said! -Good book. As for Gromph & wizards: Are there many warlocks in Underdark? Any specific examples? -Warlocks are newer inventions, and as such, I don't know if there are any canon Warlocks down there. That said, based on what a Warlock is, I am sure there'd be plenty of them. I mean, making a pact with an extraplanar creature for power seems very Drowish.
Shiftkitty 04-28-08, 03:22 PM	-Warlocks are newer inventions, and as such, I don't know if there are any canon Warlocks down there. That said, based on what a Warlock is, I am sure there'd be plenty of them. I mean, making a pact with an extraplanar creature for power seems very Drowish. Seconded. In my game, any drow who expects to get anywhere in the arcane circles has to make his "deal with the Devil", so to speak.