Halisstra? Finding out what she's become. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Halisstra? Finding out what she's become. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
QuenthelsChampion
02-26-07, 03:05 PM *not really spoilers but just incase*

During my reading of Lady Penitent I i found that Halisstras body structure sounded familiar. When i looked at the 5th book in the WotSQ series i remembered why. In this book their was a type of creature that looked just like Halisstra. They had spider legs coming out of their rib cage but was stunningly beautiful. They were called Abyssal widows.

So is Halisstra one of these Abyssal widows or one of them with with a litte more favor from Lolth? The cover has her still looking like a drow but in the book she has eight eyes and hairy cheeks.
Lord Karsus
02-26-07, 06:58 PM -Hallistra also has some "extra features", like her "stone skin".

-If it were up to me, Hallistra would be something unique. That's some good sleuthing, though.
MessiahOmega
02-26-07, 09:26 PM so are these widows stated anywhere? perhaps halistras an advanced one of them? or a chosen template thing banged on for good measure?
MarkusTay63
02-26-07, 10:20 PM Expect to see stats for all the new Lolth stuff when the Drow sourcebook book comes out.
Lord Karsus
02-26-07, 11:08 PM -There was a DRAGON Magazine dedicated to Drow in the late 200s. There is a very remote possibilty that they are in there, if they don't show up in any other D&D sourcebooks.
Dxzauvrinn
02-27-07, 12:31 AM -There was a DRAGON Magazine dedicated to Drow in the late 200s. There is a very remote possibilty that they are in there, if they don't show up in any other D&D sourcebooks.

Nope. They're not in there.
Zanan
02-27-07, 04:18 AM Lisa Smedman - unless I am mistaken - said that Halisstra is something special. Could well be that she created her appearance after the abyssal widows who - to my knowledge - first appeared in WotSQ V/VI. But she is defo a unique being, and IMHO no Chosen of Lolth either.

As for Abyssal Widows, I recently stumbled over the Book of Fiends - Legions of Hell and the Kere Baatezu reminded me of the abyssal widows instantly.
Dark_beebles
02-27-07, 04:55 AM I do agree with Karsus about her being unique..There cant be many of them if any others of her "type" running around.

But sadly...she is only a drow female so nothing special there (dunks from zanan and quenthal) :P
Panurg
02-27-07, 05:05 AM so are these widows stated anywhere? perhaps halistras an advanced one of them? or a chosen template thing banged on for good measure?

[Spoiler Warning??]

In the book her state of beeing is described as a sort of punishment as if I recount correctly. So I don't think a Chosen Template would be adequate.
An advanced form would be (in many cases) bigger, than a normal one so this is unlikely too.

In my opinion she is a unique creature created for a single purpose ...
MessiahOmega
02-27-07, 08:09 AM i agree panurg. an advanced form would make the most sense though if it was something like that.

she is indeed a unique creature, one that im dying to see stated out!

im interested in her spider legs: it says that they are the width of a broomstick, but that ratio would make those legs pretty long. are they useful for anything? im pretty sure that all she does is drum them against her chest. (maybe she's a bard, he he... :P )

oh wait; she is a bard.
Panurg
02-27-07, 11:16 AM :rofl:

I see the scene in the swamp did impress you as much as it impressed me! :dancin:
QuenthelsChampion
02-27-07, 12:24 PM But sadly...she is only a drow female so nothing special there (dunks from zanan and quenthal) :P

See you asked for it...*takes out her whip of snakes* hehe.

Even i as a Lolthite says Halisstra is no Chosen. a Chosen has to like her God.

*spoiler somewhat*

IN SotW she says she HATES Lolth but when she tries to cast in the name of Elis spiders come out of her throat and she cant talk. Though i believe that the Cresent blade is Lolths way of finding a much better champion then Selvetarm since she knew of his betrayal. And what better way to find a faithful champion then stealing her from the only Drow goddess that supports trust and loyalty? Now THAT is trully an evil move and one worthy of the Spider Queen. That and if i remember correctly the Cresent blade never used to talk. Now after spending time in the Lair of the Queen it talks and says i will fail you AND talks about selfishness? come on now. Everyones saying it's Vhaerun. No no he isnt that smart. He is trully dead. Absorbed by Elis, and to counteract this Lolth is taking away one of Elis's most powerful and ruthless worshippers and turning her to evil WITH the help of Halisstra of course.

QC
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron
02-27-07, 01:00 PM See you asked for it...*takes out her whip of snakes* hehe.

Even i as a Lolthite says Halisstra is no Chosen. a Chosen has to like her God.

*spoiler somewhat*

IN SotW she says she HATES Lolth but when she tries to cast in the name of Elis spiders come out of her throat and she cant talk. Though i believe that the Cresent blade is Lolths way of finding a much better champion then Selvetarm since she knew of his betrayal. And what better way to find a faithful champion then stealing her from the only Drow goddess that supports trust and loyalty? Now THAT is trully an evil move and one worthy of the Spider Queen. That and if i remember correctly the Cresent blade never used to talk. Now after spending time in the Lair of the Queen it talks and says i will fail you AND talks about selfishness? come on now. Everyones saying it's Vhaerun. No no he isnt that smart. He is trully dead. Absorbed by Elis, and to counteract this Lolth is taking away one of Elis's most powerful and ruthless worshippers and turning her to evil WITH the help of Halisstra of course.

QC

Ummm when did Selvetarm betray Loth? I read the whole series did I miss something.

Halisstra repented her belief in Elis at the end of the book. She is in a punishment /service type of role. Where do you get that Vhaerun is dead. There is not evidence to support that. For all we know he is still wrestling Selvetarm in the demon web pits.
Andferne
02-27-07, 04:24 PM For some reason I always got the feeling she got turned into a vampire from reading the description in the last Wots book. I just thought that the vampire tweaked a little worked perfectly, but thats just me. As i have not yet Sacrafice of the Widow.
Lord Karsus
02-27-07, 06:16 PM Ummm when did Selvetarm betray Loth? I read the whole series did I miss something.

-In the Selvetarmite stronghold, there was a priestess of Lolth that someone seemed to have killed. No one even so much as picked up the body, so it's indicative that the Selvetarmites were "headed their own way". The key point is, was this with or without Sel's knowledge and/or prompting?

Halisstra repented her belief in Elis at the end of the book. She is in a punishment /service type of role. Where do you get that Vhaerun is dead. There is not evidence to support that. For all we know he is still wrestling Selvetarm in the demon web pits.

-You obviously haven't finished the WotSQ series, nor have you started the Lady Pentient Trilogy.

No no he isnt that smart. He is trully dead. Absorbed by Elis, and to counteract this Lolth is taking away one of Elis's most powerful and ruthless worshippers and turning her to evil WITH the help of Halisstra of course.

-Vhaeraun's avatar does have an INT of 20, which is pretty high. Lolth only has an avatar with an int of 21, so effectivley, they are both as smart as each other. And, we don't know Vhaeraun's true status. For all we know, he absorbed Eilistraee, and is just making it look like she absorbed him. Who knows!?
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron
02-28-07, 01:50 AM I finished WotSQ series ages ago so maybe I forgot something. I have yet to read the Lady Penitent Trilogy. So give me a spoiler is V dead? I like that S is back out on his own! You think he will return to good? I doubt it.

Feel free to give me a Spoiler on this as I might not have time to pick up those Novels soon.
Lord Karsus
02-28-07, 03:21 PM I finished WotSQ series ages ago so maybe I forgot something.

-You must have, since Book VI starts off with Vhaeraun making a deal with a Yugoloth general. ;)

I have yet to read the Lady Penitent Trilogy. So give me a spoiler is V dead? I like that S is back out on his own! You think he will return to good? I doubt it.

-The long and the short of it is:

-Selvetarm was killed by a follower of Eilistraee, after retrieving the Crescent Blade, which has some strange properties now. A group of Vhaeraunians used what they believed was "Elven High Magic" to open up a gate from Vhaeraun's domain to Toril, to Eilistraee's domain, so that the Drow god could kill her. In the end, it seems that Eilistraee somehow turned the tables, and killed Vhaeraun. Of course, nothing is certain yet, since there are two whole novels to go...
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron
02-28-07, 03:59 PM awwww but I always liked old Selvetarm!!!!! Gerrr. How did these mortals pull this off?
QuenthelsChampion
02-28-07, 04:15 PM Personally i believe those mortals did it with divine help. Elis and Lolth are playing a game. Only two players can play chess. So now they must destroy the others and bring the pieces to their tables and get it over with. Personally though let Lolth never hear this blasphemy from me. I don't want either of them to win. I love Lolth, and i just recently started to like Elis. I never liked Vhaerun and Ghaundar(sp?) and i enjoyed having Kir as an enemy. One of her priestess is the archvillian of one of my campaigns and she can make some pretty pets to help her. Selvetarm won't be back but hopefully if their is a new diety he/she will be more loyal to the Spider Queen. Then that silly little male :P

QC
BrianCritchley
02-28-07, 05:18 PM agreed, Kiraslannie I hope survives, Ghaunder and Selvertrium are pretty much useless and I really couldn't care less about em, but I'd like to see Kiraslannie survive.

Vharuen I hope manages to pull off a ressurection. although with the elven retreat at an end I suspect Vhaerrun's short spike of influance was pretty much destined to greatly reduce.
Lord Karsus
02-28-07, 06:15 PM agreed, Kiraslannie I hope survives, Ghaunder and Selvertrium are pretty much useless and I really couldn't care less about em, but I'd like to see Kiraslannie survive.

-Neither Kiaransalee nor Ghaunadaur have made appearances thus far. Hopefully, they won't make any appearances. They were always outsiders, even in the Anti-Seldarine. Lolth, Vhaeraun, Selvetarm and Eilistraee are all linked by blood, so their fates have always been closer linked than the two other outsiders.
Lord Karsus
02-28-07, 06:17 PM Personally i believe those mortals did it with divine help.

-The individual who killed Selvetarm would have had to have had divine aid. A mortal cannot destroy a divine entity without the assistance of another divine entity. This rule has always played true. Cyric had the aid of Mask...Finder Wyvernspur had the aid of Tymora. Though I am credited for it, I did not actually kill Mystryl. She did end her existence by herself.
Stigger
02-28-07, 06:25 PM Never having read the series... or really having an interest in it... I'll just toss out an idea and see what you make of it... What if the Selvetarm death thing was a set up? Maybe the sword being in Lloths realm was a way of analyzing her power and the sword a focus to remove her influence from Selvetarm so that he could be purged of his taint and brought back to Eilistraee's side? Maybe something Qilue and some of the Chosen set up just to mess with Llolth... with a tiny bit of help from Mystra, who's obviously an ally of Eilistraee's given Qilue's very existance... What if the talking sword is actually Selvetarm speaking... off I go.

Alternately though, could it be a setup by Llolth to have old Selvetarm pull a Mask on Eilistraee when the time is right...
QuenthelsChampion
02-28-07, 06:37 PM -Neither Kiaransalee nor Ghaunadaur have made appearances thus far. Hopefully, they won't make any appearances. They were always outsiders, even in the Anti-Seldarine. Lolth, Vhaeraun, Selvetarm and Eilistraee are all linked by blood, so their fates have always been closer linked than the two other outsiders.

*spoiler*
Qilue had a convorsation where she brought up Kir and Ghaun. Saying in not so many words. They are next inline. that and the title of the next book being Storm of the Dead almost hands you Kir on a silver plate. Sacrifice of the Widow meaning the sacrifice of Selvetarm when Elis won the sava throw. See it all makes sense now haha.

QC
Lord Karsus
02-28-07, 06:40 PM *spoiler*
Qilue had a convorsation where she brought up Kir and Ghaun. Saying in not so many words. They are next inline. that and the title of the next book being Storm of the Dead almost hands you Kir on a silver plate. Sacrifice of the Widow meaning the sacrifice of Selvetarm when Elis won the sava throw. See it all makes sense now haha.

QC

-All I said was that they haven't made appearences thus far. I didn't know about the title for the next novel, but that certainly makes it seem like Kiaransalee will be appearing, in some manner, in the next chapter of the trilogy. That disappoints me, actually. If they condense the entire Anti-Seldarine into just Lolth and Eilistraee-Vhaeraun-(And anyone else who joins in), I am going to be very disappointed, even though I am not a very good fan of the Drow.
QuenthelsChampion
02-28-07, 06:41 PM Ummm when did Selvetarm betray Loth? I read the whole series did I miss something.

Halisstra repented her belief in Elis at the end of the book. She is in a punishment /service type of role. Where do you get that Vhaerun is dead. There is not evidence to support that. For all we know he is still wrestling Selvetarm in the demon web pits.

*spoiler part 2*

Oh and all of this is in the new books hun. Halisstra is a character in the new book Sacrifice of the Widow which is three years after WotSQ.
QuenthelsChampion
02-28-07, 06:42 PM -All I said was that they haven't made appearences thus far. I didn't know about the title for the next novel, but that certainly makes it seem like Kiaransalee will be appearing, in some manner, in the next chapter of the trilogy. That disappoints me, actually. If they condense the entire Anti-Seldarine into just Lolth and Eilistraee-Vhaeraun-(And anyone else who joins in), I am going to be very disappointed, even though I am not a very good fan of the Drow.

well its supposed to be only one left Elis or Lolth apparently. But i doubt that i think the Anti-Selderine is just getting a face lift. New gods other gods becoming more powerful the easy way. Same old same old haha.
Zanan
03-04-07, 06:19 PM -Vhaeraun's avatar does have an INT of 20, which is pretty high. Lolth only has an avatar with an int of 21, so effectivley, they are both as smart as each other. And, we don't know Vhaeraun's true status. For all we know, he absorbed Eilistraee, and is just making it look like she absorbed him. Who knows!?

Well, as much as I dislike deity stats, according to F&P, the Dark Mother has INT 41.

As for Vhaeraun ... for all we know, his priests think him dead, Eilistraee's do so, and it is Eilistraee using his sava piece. The rest is speculation which will most likely not be solved in LP II.

I for one hope that Kiaransalee doesn't get involved directly.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron
03-05-07, 01:30 AM Did anyone else find it annoying how the different authors seemed to mess up the characters throughout WOSQ? I mean I was kind of liking the whole road to redemption thing Halisstra was on. Then wham final book it all goes to hell!
Lord Karsus
03-05-07, 10:28 AM Did anyone else find it annoying how the different authors seemed to mess up the characters throughout WOSQ? I mean I was kind of liking the whole road to redemption thing Halisstra was on. Then wham final book it all goes to hell!

-That was one of the highlights of the story, to me. It just goes to show that old habits die hard, and that there is more to switching deities then just erasing the old one on your character sheet, and penciling in a new one.
Zireael
03-06-07, 01:43 AM I agree with Lord Karsus.
Lord Karsus
03-06-07, 09:08 AM I agree with Lord Karsus.

-Most people seem to agree with me. I should go into politics...
QuenthelsChampion
03-06-07, 12:39 PM Really From the start i didn't like Halisstra. She was too nice to be a Lolthite. That and she trusted a battle captive. Sure Danifae was one of the most beautiful drow ever apparently, but still why trust someone you have to mentally control not to run away? She should have been with Elis and when she was redeemed i was happy for her. Then Ryld died and when she went back to Lolth it was like slapping him in the face. Like everyone who read the series says "Poor Ryld." If this new series brings back any other characters from WotSQ bring back Ryld haha. Maybe he can help Halisstra be redeemed. *sigh*..sorry im a sucker for hopeless romance.

QC
Lord Karsus
03-06-07, 05:23 PM *sigh*..sorry im a sucker for hopeless romance.

-And you call yourself a Drow...:nonono:
Stigger
03-06-07, 06:45 PM Yet more proof that Hanali/Sune can reach into even the darkest places... :D
Nocci
03-06-07, 07:06 PM *sigh*..sorry im a sucker for hopeless romance.

Me too.. me too... :rolleyes:
Arbourean
03-11-07, 12:52 AM See you asked for it...*takes out her whip of snakes* hehe.

Even i as a Lolthite says Halisstra is no Chosen. a Chosen has to like her God.

*spoiler somewhat*

IN SotW she says she HATES Lolth but when she tries to cast in the name of Elis spiders come out of her throat and she cant talk. Though i believe that the Cresent blade is Lolths way of finding a much better champion then Selvetarm since she knew of his betrayal. And what better way to find a faithful champion then stealing her from the only Drow goddess that supports trust and loyalty? Now THAT is trully an evil move and one worthy of the Spider Queen. That and if i remember correctly the Cresent blade never used to talk. Now after spending time in the Lair of the Queen it talks and says i will fail you AND talks about selfishness? come on now. Everyones saying it's Vhaerun. No no he isnt that smart. He is trully dead. Absorbed by Elis, and to counteract this Lolth is taking away one of Elis's most powerful and ruthless worshippers and turning her to evil WITH the help of Halisstra of course.

QC

I agree, except for the part of Lolth's Chosen having to like Her. I think there is a delicious irony in Halisstra being Lolth's Chosen: and despising it with her every being and yet helpless to resist.
QuenthelsChampion
03-11-07, 02:38 PM -And you call yourself a Drow...:nonono:

I am Drow just a drow with a soft spot for an obidient very attractive male. I see no problem with that. haha.
Stigger
03-12-07, 01:20 AM Soft spots are usually where the daggers are slipped in to...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
QuenthelsChampion 02-26-07, 03:05 PM	not really spoilers but just incase During my reading of Lady Penitent I i found that Halisstras body structure sounded familiar. When i looked at the 5th book in the WotSQ series i remembered why. In this book their was a type of creature that looked just like Halisstra. They had spider legs coming out of their rib cage but was stunningly beautiful. They were called Abyssal widows. So is Halisstra one of these Abyssal widows or one of them with with a litte more favor from Lolth? The cover has her still looking like a drow but in the book she has eight eyes and hairy cheeks.
Lord Karsus 02-26-07, 06:58 PM	-Hallistra also has some "extra features", like her "stone skin". -If it were up to me, Hallistra would be something unique. That's some good sleuthing, though.
MessiahOmega 02-26-07, 09:26 PM	so are these widows stated anywhere? perhaps halistras an advanced one of them? or a chosen template thing banged on for good measure?
MarkusTay63 02-26-07, 10:20 PM	Expect to see stats for all the new Lolth stuff when the Drow sourcebook book comes out.
Lord Karsus 02-26-07, 11:08 PM	-There was a DRAGON Magazine dedicated to Drow in the late 200s. There is a very remote possibilty that they are in there, if they don't show up in any other D&D sourcebooks.
Dxzauvrinn 02-27-07, 12:31 AM	-There was a DRAGON Magazine dedicated to Drow in the late 200s. There is a very remote possibilty that they are in there, if they don't show up in any other D&D sourcebooks. Nope. They're not in there.
Zanan 02-27-07, 04:18 AM	Lisa Smedman - unless I am mistaken - said that Halisstra is something special. Could well be that she created her appearance after the abyssal widows who - to my knowledge - first appeared in WotSQ V/VI. But she is defo a unique being, and IMHO no Chosen of Lolth either. As for Abyssal Widows, I recently stumbled over the Book of Fiends - Legions of Hell and the Kere Baatezu reminded me of the abyssal widows instantly.
Dark_beebles 02-27-07, 04:55 AM	I do agree with Karsus about her being unique..There cant be many of them if any others of her "type" running around. But sadly...she is only a drow female so nothing special there (dunks from zanan and quenthal) :P
Panurg 02-27-07, 05:05 AM	so are these widows stated anywhere? perhaps halistras an advanced one of them? or a chosen template thing banged on for good measure? [Spoiler Warning??] In the book her state of beeing is described as a sort of punishment as if I recount correctly. So I don't think a Chosen Template would be adequate. An advanced form would be (in many cases) bigger, than a normal one so this is unlikely too. In my opinion she is a unique creature created for a single purpose ...
MessiahOmega 02-27-07, 08:09 AM	i agree panurg. an advanced form would make the most sense though if it was something like that. she is indeed a unique creature, one that im dying to see stated out! im interested in her spider legs: it says that they are the width of a broomstick, but that ratio would make those legs pretty long. are they useful for anything? im pretty sure that all she does is drum them against her chest. (maybe she's a bard, he he... :P ) oh wait; she is a bard.
Panurg 02-27-07, 11:16 AM	:rofl: I see the scene in the swamp did impress you as much as it impressed me! :dancin:
QuenthelsChampion 02-27-07, 12:24 PM	But sadly...she is only a drow female so nothing special there (dunks from zanan and quenthal) :P See you asked for it...takes out her whip of snakes hehe. Even i as a Lolthite says Halisstra is no Chosen. a Chosen has to like her God. spoiler somewhat IN SotW she says she HATES Lolth but when she tries to cast in the name of Elis spiders come out of her throat and she cant talk. Though i believe that the Cresent blade is Lolths way of finding a much better champion then Selvetarm since she knew of his betrayal. And what better way to find a faithful champion then stealing her from the only Drow goddess that supports trust and loyalty? Now THAT is trully an evil move and one worthy of the Spider Queen. That and if i remember correctly the Cresent blade never used to talk. Now after spending time in the Lair of the Queen it talks and says i will fail you AND talks about selfishness? come on now. Everyones saying it's Vhaerun. No no he isnt that smart. He is trully dead. Absorbed by Elis, and to counteract this Lolth is taking away one of Elis's most powerful and ruthless worshippers and turning her to evil WITH the help of Halisstra of course. QC
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-27-07, 01:00 PM	See you asked for it...takes out her whip of snakes hehe. Even i as a Lolthite says Halisstra is no Chosen. a Chosen has to like her God. spoiler somewhat IN SotW she says she HATES Lolth but when she tries to cast in the name of Elis spiders come out of her throat and she cant talk. Though i believe that the Cresent blade is Lolths way of finding a much better champion then Selvetarm since she knew of his betrayal. And what better way to find a faithful champion then stealing her from the only Drow goddess that supports trust and loyalty? Now THAT is trully an evil move and one worthy of the Spider Queen. That and if i remember correctly the Cresent blade never used to talk. Now after spending time in the Lair of the Queen it talks and says i will fail you AND talks about selfishness? come on now. Everyones saying it's Vhaerun. No no he isnt that smart. He is trully dead. Absorbed by Elis, and to counteract this Lolth is taking away one of Elis's most powerful and ruthless worshippers and turning her to evil WITH the help of Halisstra of course. QC Ummm when did Selvetarm betray Loth? I read the whole series did I miss something. Halisstra repented her belief in Elis at the end of the book. She is in a punishment /service type of role. Where do you get that Vhaerun is dead. There is not evidence to support that. For all we know he is still wrestling Selvetarm in the demon web pits.
Andferne 02-27-07, 04:24 PM	For some reason I always got the feeling she got turned into a vampire from reading the description in the last Wots book. I just thought that the vampire tweaked a little worked perfectly, but thats just me. As i have not yet Sacrafice of the Widow.
Lord Karsus 02-27-07, 06:16 PM	Ummm when did Selvetarm betray Loth? I read the whole series did I miss something. -In the Selvetarmite stronghold, there was a priestess of Lolth that someone seemed to have killed. No one even so much as picked up the body, so it's indicative that the Selvetarmites were "headed their own way". The key point is, was this with or without Sel's knowledge and/or prompting? Halisstra repented her belief in Elis at the end of the book. She is in a punishment /service type of role. Where do you get that Vhaerun is dead. There is not evidence to support that. For all we know he is still wrestling Selvetarm in the demon web pits. -You obviously haven't finished the WotSQ series, nor have you started the Lady Pentient Trilogy. No no he isnt that smart. He is trully dead. Absorbed by Elis, and to counteract this Lolth is taking away one of Elis's most powerful and ruthless worshippers and turning her to evil WITH the help of Halisstra of course. -Vhaeraun's avatar does have an INT of 20, which is pretty high. Lolth only has an avatar with an int of 21, so effectivley, they are both as smart as each other. And, we don't know Vhaeraun's true status. For all we know, he absorbed Eilistraee, and is just making it look like she absorbed him. Who knows!?
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-28-07, 01:50 AM	I finished WotSQ series ages ago so maybe I forgot something. I have yet to read the Lady Penitent Trilogy. So give me a spoiler is V dead? I like that S is back out on his own! You think he will return to good? I doubt it. Feel free to give me a Spoiler on this as I might not have time to pick up those Novels soon.
Lord Karsus 02-28-07, 03:21 PM	I finished WotSQ series ages ago so maybe I forgot something. -You must have, since Book VI starts off with Vhaeraun making a deal with a Yugoloth general. ;) I have yet to read the Lady Penitent Trilogy. So give me a spoiler is V dead? I like that S is back out on his own! You think he will return to good? I doubt it. -The long and the short of it is: -Selvetarm was killed by a follower of Eilistraee, after retrieving the Crescent Blade, which has some strange properties now. A group of Vhaeraunians used what they believed was "Elven High Magic" to open up a gate from Vhaeraun's domain to Toril, to Eilistraee's domain, so that the Drow god could kill her. In the end, it seems that Eilistraee somehow turned the tables, and killed Vhaeraun. Of course, nothing is certain yet, since there are two whole novels to go...
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 02-28-07, 03:59 PM	awwww but I always liked old Selvetarm!!!!! Gerrr. How did these mortals pull this off?
QuenthelsChampion 02-28-07, 04:15 PM	Personally i believe those mortals did it with divine help. Elis and Lolth are playing a game. Only two players can play chess. So now they must destroy the others and bring the pieces to their tables and get it over with. Personally though let Lolth never hear this blasphemy from me. I don't want either of them to win. I love Lolth, and i just recently started to like Elis. I never liked Vhaerun and Ghaundar(sp?) and i enjoyed having Kir as an enemy. One of her priestess is the archvillian of one of my campaigns and she can make some pretty pets to help her. Selvetarm won't be back but hopefully if their is a new diety he/she will be more loyal to the Spider Queen. Then that silly little male :P QC
BrianCritchley 02-28-07, 05:18 PM	agreed, Kiraslannie I hope survives, Ghaunder and Selvertrium are pretty much useless and I really couldn't care less about em, but I'd like to see Kiraslannie survive. Vharuen I hope manages to pull off a ressurection. although with the elven retreat at an end I suspect Vhaerrun's short spike of influance was pretty much destined to greatly reduce.
Lord Karsus 02-28-07, 06:15 PM	agreed, Kiraslannie I hope survives, Ghaunder and Selvertrium are pretty much useless and I really couldn't care less about em, but I'd like to see Kiraslannie survive. -Neither Kiaransalee nor Ghaunadaur have made appearances thus far. Hopefully, they won't make any appearances. They were always outsiders, even in the Anti-Seldarine. Lolth, Vhaeraun, Selvetarm and Eilistraee are all linked by blood, so their fates have always been closer linked than the two other outsiders.
Lord Karsus 02-28-07, 06:17 PM	Personally i believe those mortals did it with divine help. -The individual who killed Selvetarm would have had to have had divine aid. A mortal cannot destroy a divine entity without the assistance of another divine entity. This rule has always played true. Cyric had the aid of Mask...Finder Wyvernspur had the aid of Tymora. Though I am credited for it, I did not actually kill Mystryl. She did end her existence by herself.
Stigger 02-28-07, 06:25 PM	Never having read the series... or really having an interest in it... I'll just toss out an idea and see what you make of it... What if the Selvetarm death thing was a set up? Maybe the sword being in Lloths realm was a way of analyzing her power and the sword a focus to remove her influence from Selvetarm so that he could be purged of his taint and brought back to Eilistraee's side? Maybe something Qilue and some of the Chosen set up just to mess with Llolth... with a tiny bit of help from Mystra, who's obviously an ally of Eilistraee's given Qilue's very existance... What if the talking sword is actually Selvetarm speaking... off I go. Alternately though, could it be a setup by Llolth to have old Selvetarm pull a Mask on Eilistraee when the time is right...
QuenthelsChampion 02-28-07, 06:37 PM	-Neither Kiaransalee nor Ghaunadaur have made appearances thus far. Hopefully, they won't make any appearances. They were always outsiders, even in the Anti-Seldarine. Lolth, Vhaeraun, Selvetarm and Eilistraee are all linked by blood, so their fates have always been closer linked than the two other outsiders. spoiler Qilue had a convorsation where she brought up Kir and Ghaun. Saying in not so many words. They are next inline. that and the title of the next book being Storm of the Dead almost hands you Kir on a silver plate. Sacrifice of the Widow meaning the sacrifice of Selvetarm when Elis won the sava throw. See it all makes sense now haha. QC
Lord Karsus 02-28-07, 06:40 PM	spoiler Qilue had a convorsation where she brought up Kir and Ghaun. Saying in not so many words. They are next inline. that and the title of the next book being Storm of the Dead almost hands you Kir on a silver plate. Sacrifice of the Widow meaning the sacrifice of Selvetarm when Elis won the sava throw. See it all makes sense now haha. QC -All I said was that they haven't made appearences thus far. I didn't know about the title for the next novel, but that certainly makes it seem like Kiaransalee will be appearing, in some manner, in the next chapter of the trilogy. That disappoints me, actually. If they condense the entire Anti-Seldarine into just Lolth and Eilistraee-Vhaeraun-(And anyone else who joins in), I am going to be very disappointed, even though I am not a very good fan of the Drow.
QuenthelsChampion 02-28-07, 06:41 PM	Ummm when did Selvetarm betray Loth? I read the whole series did I miss something. Halisstra repented her belief in Elis at the end of the book. She is in a punishment /service type of role. Where do you get that Vhaerun is dead. There is not evidence to support that. For all we know he is still wrestling Selvetarm in the demon web pits. spoiler part 2 Oh and all of this is in the new books hun. Halisstra is a character in the new book Sacrifice of the Widow which is three years after WotSQ.
QuenthelsChampion 02-28-07, 06:42 PM	-All I said was that they haven't made appearences thus far. I didn't know about the title for the next novel, but that certainly makes it seem like Kiaransalee will be appearing, in some manner, in the next chapter of the trilogy. That disappoints me, actually. If they condense the entire Anti-Seldarine into just Lolth and Eilistraee-Vhaeraun-(And anyone else who joins in), I am going to be very disappointed, even though I am not a very good fan of the Drow. well its supposed to be only one left Elis or Lolth apparently. But i doubt that i think the Anti-Selderine is just getting a face lift. New gods other gods becoming more powerful the easy way. Same old same old haha.
Zanan 03-04-07, 06:19 PM	-Vhaeraun's avatar does have an INT of 20, which is pretty high. Lolth only has an avatar with an int of 21, so effectivley, they are both as smart as each other. And, we don't know Vhaeraun's true status. For all we know, he absorbed Eilistraee, and is just making it look like she absorbed him. Who knows!? Well, as much as I dislike deity stats, according to F&P, the Dark Mother has INT 41. As for Vhaeraun ... for all we know, his priests think him dead, Eilistraee's do so, and it is Eilistraee using his sava piece. The rest is speculation which will most likely not be solved in LP II. I for one hope that Kiaransalee doesn't get involved directly.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-05-07, 01:30 AM	Did anyone else find it annoying how the different authors seemed to mess up the characters throughout WOSQ? I mean I was kind of liking the whole road to redemption thing Halisstra was on. Then wham final book it all goes to hell!
Lord Karsus 03-05-07, 10:28 AM	Did anyone else find it annoying how the different authors seemed to mess up the characters throughout WOSQ? I mean I was kind of liking the whole road to redemption thing Halisstra was on. Then wham final book it all goes to hell! -That was one of the highlights of the story, to me. It just goes to show that old habits die hard, and that there is more to switching deities then just erasing the old one on your character sheet, and penciling in a new one.
Zireael 03-06-07, 01:43 AM	I agree with Lord Karsus.
Lord Karsus 03-06-07, 09:08 AM	I agree with Lord Karsus. -Most people seem to agree with me. I should go into politics...
QuenthelsChampion 03-06-07, 12:39 PM	Really From the start i didn't like Halisstra. She was too nice to be a Lolthite. That and she trusted a battle captive. Sure Danifae was one of the most beautiful drow ever apparently, but still why trust someone you have to mentally control not to run away? She should have been with Elis and when she was redeemed i was happy for her. Then Ryld died and when she went back to Lolth it was like slapping him in the face. Like everyone who read the series says "Poor Ryld." If this new series brings back any other characters from WotSQ bring back Ryld haha. Maybe he can help Halisstra be redeemed. sigh..sorry im a sucker for hopeless romance. QC
Lord Karsus 03-06-07, 05:23 PM	sigh..sorry im a sucker for hopeless romance. -And you call yourself a Drow...:nonono:
Stigger 03-06-07, 06:45 PM	Yet more proof that Hanali/Sune can reach into even the darkest places... :D
Nocci 03-06-07, 07:06 PM	sigh..sorry im a sucker for hopeless romance. Me too.. me too... :rolleyes:
Arbourean 03-11-07, 12:52 AM	See you asked for it...takes out her whip of snakes hehe. Even i as a Lolthite says Halisstra is no Chosen. a Chosen has to like her God. spoiler somewhat IN SotW she says she HATES Lolth but when she tries to cast in the name of Elis spiders come out of her throat and she cant talk. Though i believe that the Cresent blade is Lolths way of finding a much better champion then Selvetarm since she knew of his betrayal. And what better way to find a faithful champion then stealing her from the only Drow goddess that supports trust and loyalty? Now THAT is trully an evil move and one worthy of the Spider Queen. That and if i remember correctly the Cresent blade never used to talk. Now after spending time in the Lair of the Queen it talks and says i will fail you AND talks about selfishness? come on now. Everyones saying it's Vhaerun. No no he isnt that smart. He is trully dead. Absorbed by Elis, and to counteract this Lolth is taking away one of Elis's most powerful and ruthless worshippers and turning her to evil WITH the help of Halisstra of course. QC I agree, except for the part of Lolth's Chosen having to like Her. I think there is a delicious irony in Halisstra being Lolth's Chosen: and despising it with her every being and yet helpless to resist.
QuenthelsChampion 03-11-07, 02:38 PM	-And you call yourself a Drow...:nonono: I am Drow just a drow with a soft spot for an obidient very attractive male. I see no problem with that. haha.
Stigger 03-12-07, 01:20 AM	Soft spots are usually where the daggers are slipped in to...