High Level Dwarven Characters [Archive] - Wizards Community

High Level Dwarven Characters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ragnar_Frostaxe
03-22-07, 10:07 PM I know someone already asked this in an old thread, but no one gave a response, so does anyone know about at least five Dwarves higher than 15 levels??. I know that in 2º ed because of the rules it was a no no, but since that has changed, are there any of them now??
Lord Karsus
03-22-07, 11:44 PM Bandaerl Dumatheir, Dwarven Archlich Cleric (Dumathoin) 20

Tarngardt Steelshadow, Duergar Fighter 17

Grim Herald Morndin Gloomstorm, Duergar Cleric (Laduguer) 15

-That's all I've got...
Mad Mage
03-22-07, 11:56 PM By the level you have for your second one, LK, I'd say King Harbromm of Citadel Adbar (who's statted in Silver Marches) would be a likely fit. He's a Fighter 10/Dwarven Defender 7, so why not?
Ragnar_Frostaxe
03-23-07, 01:34 AM Humm, mostly Duergar eh. I was hoping there would be more shield or gold dwarves. Oh well thanks guys
draco1119
03-23-07, 03:35 AM Bruenor Battlehammer.

General Dagna, Emerus Warcrown and Torgar Hammerstriker, perhaps?

I believe Ivan and Pikel Bouldershoulder are both in the 10-12 range...
Mad Mage
03-23-07, 12:18 PM Bruenor Battlehammer.

General Dagna, Emerus Warcrown and Torgar Hammerstriker, perhaps?

I believe Ivan and Pikel Bouldershoulder are both in the 10-12 range...

Ivan & Pikel are actual lvl 8 each, as per this article (http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/?doc=fr_lonedrowstats).

Dagna and Torgar, as far as I can tell, have not officially been statted.
Boda
03-23-07, 12:28 PM -Athrogate!

-The dwarf that rules the undead city of graveyard or boneyard.
GothicDan
03-23-07, 12:53 PM I'm curious. Are people actually trying to answer the original poster's question regarding high level (15+, established in RAW) dwarves, or just responding with the first RAS connotation that forms in their mind when they read the word 'Dwarf'?

;)
Lord Karsus
03-23-07, 02:10 PM I'm curious. Are people actually trying to answer the original poster's question regarding high level (15+, established in RAW) dwarves, or just responding with the first RAS connotation that forms in their mind when they read the word 'Dwarf'?

;)

-Hey, all of my contributions meet the criteria that the OP was asking for...
Alurvelve
03-23-07, 06:28 PM Guldrim Hoaraxe male shield dwarf Ftr8/Def6 of sundabar.
King Harbromm male shield dwarf Ftr17 of citadel adbar.
Rorann Stonehammer male shield dwarf Clr17 of citadel adbar.
Throm Forkbeard male shield dwarf Ftr6/Clr5/Chm5 of citadel adbar.
Captain Druggath Shieldcleaver male shield dwarf Ftr8/Def6 of citadel adbar.
King Emerus Warcrown male shield dwarf Ftr16 of citadel felbarr.

Those are some of the ones from the silver marches book.
GothicDan
03-24-07, 06:12 AM -Hey, all of my contributions meet the criteria that the OP was asking for...

Dwarves of above 15th level?
draco1119
03-24-07, 08:44 AM Ivan & Pikel are actual lvl 8 each, as per this article (http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/?doc=fr_lonedrowstats).
:doh:
I thought they were a little higher than that. Oops.

Dagna and Torgar, as far as I can tell, have not officially been statted.
At least I was right about King Emerus. :)

I do remember that Dagna was the leader of the forces that Citadel Adbar sent to reclaim Mithral Hall from the Duergar, and I seem to recall reading a line in one of the novels about his being the most experienced commander Adbar, then Mithral Hall had, so I'd guess he's between 12 and 15. BTW, what are the stats for Pwent and Gandalug, I wonder?
creepy drifter
03-24-07, 01:36 PM Ragnar,

Just curious ... what did you need the information for?

I actually have on file a few more dwarves of 15th+ level in the Realms, but I'd rather provide them for you if they fit your unique criteria for whatever you are working on.
Ragnar_Frostaxe
03-24-07, 03:20 PM I asked because I´m under the impression that dwarves only seem to get to high levels while they live in Citadels in the North, and not adventuring around Faerun like a lot of humans do. Also I was interested about wich dwarf sub race had the highest level dwarfs. From the posts here I pretty much confirm what I thought, that in terms of high levels, it´s a race between shield dwarves and duergar, gold dwarves apparently dont seem to have the drive to push past 10 levels. I see no reason behind this differences in sub races, maybe it´s because gold dwarves are more interested in trading that in anything else?? I dont know, what do yo guys think??
Alurvelve
03-24-07, 05:39 PM Not sure if he ever got a offica write-up but there was an Artic Dwarf in the Rage of the Dragons books and if I remember right someone had said something like all of them in that trilogy were epic level.

I would think that to be about right as well. Gold dwarfs spend more time doing the non combat oriented stuff such as mining, trading and etc, but that'd be my guess as well.
runestar
03-25-07, 09:00 AM Dragons of faerun has 2 dwarves of lv15+, IIRC. They are mentioned in the entry regarding lady gemcloak.:)
The_Shaman
03-25-07, 09:30 AM Here are some of the notables in Earthhard, detailed in the Shining South

Mariochar Bladebeard (Cleric of Clangeddin 10/DDefender 7) - Lord Scepter of the Deep Realm
Vorn Steeleye (Fighter 8/Great Rift Skyguard 10) - Commander of the Peacehammers
Gwarr Stouthammer (Cleric 11 of Moradin/Divine Disciple 4 of Moradin) - High Priest of the Temple of the Moraddinsamman

There are a few other 10+ characters, too.
Critalondel
03-25-07, 09:48 AM Well, the findings shouldn't be terribly surprising. Dwarves are, after all, Lawful Good. There shouldn't be as many of them tromping around the Realms, axes in hand, for as long into their careers as many of the other races. The Dwarves that reach high level -- those that are the champions and leaders of their race -- are for more likely (given their Lawful upringing) to want to be at home, surrounded by hearth and Clan, lending their abilities to the defense of their blood instead of just roaming around on "adventures." Even Elves (which are supposed to, in theory, be fairly rare as adventurers go due to the Retreat) are Chaotic Good, at least, which means there's bound to be more of them determined to "do their own thing" and hike around human lands doing stuff and earning xp. So in a way, it makes sense for most of the high-level Dwarves to be found in, well, traditionally Dwarven lands, doing traditionally Dwarven stuff (hanging out with other Dwarves, wackin' orcs).

And ditto, the Shield Dwarf (most populous, so there'd be some of high level) and the Duergar (since everything in the Underdark is cool/higher level/more dangerous/whatever, a long-running tradition) being those with the most high level characters. I wouldn't necessarily say Gold Dwarves like the drive to gain high levels -- I'd just there there's not as many of them, so it's simple math that there shouldn't be as many of them with high levels gaining fame in the Realms.
GothicDan
03-25-07, 10:37 AM Oddly enough, the most powerful Elves that we've seen tend to be Lawful (and often Sun Elves). For instance, the Srinshee was originally a Lawful Neutral Sun Elf (level 30) and Eltargrim was a Lawful Good Sun Elf (Fighter 25, Mage 18 upon death).
bitter thorn
03-25-07, 09:39 PM I asked because I´m under the impression that dwarves only seem to get to high levels while they live in Citadels in the North, and not adventuring around Faerun like a lot of humans do. Also I was interested about wich dwarf sub race had the highest level dwarfs. From the posts here I pretty much confirm what I thought, that in terms of high levels, it´s a race between shield dwarves and duergar, gold dwarves apparently dont seem to have the drive to push past 10 levels. I see no reason behind this differences in sub races, maybe it´s because gold dwarves are more interested in trading that in anything else?? I dont know, what do yo guys think??

Honestly I think this is more a fluke of what's been published after 2nd ed than a reflection of the demographics of Dwarves in the Realms. I would avoid reaching conclusions based on a lack of cannon evidence. I get the impression that there are quite a few higher level (+15) Gold Dwarves and Shield Dwarves in 3.X FR, but we just haven't had a chance to see them in print yet. I don't think that the levels we see published in SM are anomolous. I think we are simply working from a very small sample group, and it's going to hard to reach well supported conclusions based on the very limited mechanical information that is currently available.
Lord Karsus
03-26-07, 12:04 AM Dwarves of above 15th level?

-Yes indeed...
Ragnar_Frostaxe
03-28-07, 03:08 PM Ok so how about the most powerfull dwarf ever. Just out of curiosity... and by powerfull I mean individual prowess, not influence and friends etc. Thoughts??
Lord Karsus
03-28-07, 03:15 PM Ok so how about the most powerfull dwarf ever. Just out of curiosity... and by powerfull I mean individual prowess, not influence and friends etc. Thoughts??

-How about Moradin, then?

-If not, then how about Deep Duerra? She was once a mortal Duergar, and look at her now.
Ragnar_Frostaxe
03-29-07, 06:20 PM Ok how about some stats fot them before they became god/demi gods??
Lord Karsus
03-29-07, 06:43 PM Ok how about some stats fot them before they became god/demi gods??

-Stats? Well, asides for her deific stats, she has none. But, suffice to say, no ordinary idiot is going to be elevated to divinity. She probably had a few levels in Psion and/or Psionic Warrior, and maybe Fighter.
The_Shaman
03-30-07, 09:07 AM More than a few, I'd wager - to be a deity of mentalism, I would expect her to have been at least lvl 20 before her ascention.

IMO it's just that high-level dwarven characters, due to their lawful nature, don't get out much - they have the great dwarven battles to fight. If a book on the Deep Realm comes out, methinks there would be quite a few high-level gold dwarves there. As for the wild ones... where is Chult covered? I don't think there was much on it in Shining South, and I don't have Serpent Kingdoms.
Lord Karsus
03-30-07, 10:11 AM More than a few, I'd wager - to be a deity of mentalism, I would expect her to have been at least lvl 20 before her ascention.

-Well, it's not necessary. Laduguer (Who I believe elevated her) could have been trying to pull a Talos- raising a mortal to divinity, and then trying to leech off of them.
The_Shaman
03-30-07, 03:30 PM Possible, but I'm thinking about something else: to become a deity of something, you should pretty much exemplify it. Hence, even if she's not that powerful (although when you consider a deity as a reference point, it's a rather relative statement) she should be a consummate psionicist if she is to assume the mantle of a deity of mentalism, particularly since it's a skill Laduguer himself doesn't have (and hence can't bestow). She doesn't have to be lvl 20, I guess, but should still be a psion of more than impressive skill - i.e. like Midnight as a mage or Shevarash before his ascention.
GothicDan
03-30-07, 08:57 PM I think Midnight's highest statted level before actually receiving divine power was 10th.
Karsus the Mad
03-30-07, 09:17 PM I think Midnight's highest statted level before actually receiving divine power was 10th.
I thought she was a 9th level mage?
GothicDan
03-30-07, 09:40 PM Maybe you're right. Could be 9. In any event - she was low-ish to mid level at best. :)
Lord Karsus
03-30-07, 11:28 PM -According to Time of Troubles: Shadowdale, she is 7th level. According to Time of Troubles: Tantras, she is 9th level. ToT:T was her last set of stats, before her elevation to divinity.
Critalondel
03-31-07, 01:48 AM To be fair, the Time of Troubles (and those that attained godhood because of it) was kind of a special case scenario.
The_Shaman
03-31-07, 12:01 PM -According to Time of Troubles: Shadowdale, she is 7th level. According to Time of Troubles: Tantras, she is 9th level. ToT:T was her last set of stats, before her elevation to divinity.

My bad, then. Still, I do think that Deep Duerra would have to be a noted psionicist to ascend (arguably, with Midnight at least she got the mojo from a deity of magic), although I guess there are no rules on it.
Mad Mage
03-31-07, 01:17 PM My estimation on Deep Duerra's mortal class levels upon achieving divinity would be Fighter 20/Psion 10.

Not sure how canon it is to the Realms, but the 3.X Core D&D sourcebook Demihuman Deities (Or was it one of the online updates?) stated that a character may or must be at least 30th level to be considered applicable for divinity. In some ways, that makes sense. In some ways, it doesn't.
Lord Karsus
03-31-07, 06:19 PM Not sure how canon it is to the Realms, but the 3.X Core D&D sourcebook Demihuman Deities (Or was it one of the online updates?) stated that a character may or must be at least 30th level to be considered applicable for divinity. In some ways, that makes sense. In some ways, it doesn't.

-I don't think that is really applicable in the Realms. Look at how the first Mystra attained divinity, and the second, Cyric, Kelemvor, Velsharoon, Finder Wyvernspur...A whole lot of deities who were once mortal, I don't believe, were anywhere near level 30 when they ascended.
The_Shaman
04-01-07, 08:27 AM Ah, who knows. Perhaps lvl 30 is the minimum for starting the road to ascention based on your own power, which is rather rare in the Realms (iirc even Cyric had more than a little help).'

Anyway, can anyone point me to some epic dwarven characters?
bitter thorn
04-01-07, 10:18 PM Ah, who knows. Perhaps lvl 30 is the minimum for starting the road to ascention based on your own power, which is rather rare in the Realms (iirc even Cyric had more than a little help).'

Anyway, can anyone point me to some epic dwarven characters?

I can't cite any, but I tend to think that they are out there. We just don't have 3.x stats for them yet.
Lord Karsus
04-02-07, 10:11 AM Ah, who knows. Perhaps lvl 30 is the minimum for starting the road to ascention based on your own power, which is rather rare in the Realms (iirc even Cyric had more than a little help).'

-Well, thankfully, it doesn't work like that.

I can't cite any, but I tend to think that they are out there. We just don't have 3.x stats for them yet.

-Agreed. That is the most likely case.
Grandmaster_Kane
04-11-07, 09:25 PM i dunno

Bruenor 15-16 fighter (i forgot which)
Athrogate 17 fighter
Lord Karsus
04-12-07, 08:51 AM Bruenor 15-16 fighter (i forgot which)

-I believe that Bruenor was in around 10, just like the rest of the Company of the Hall, sans Drizzt.
Karsus the Mad
04-12-07, 08:57 AM -I believe that Bruenor was in around 10, just like the rest of the Company of the Hall, sans Drizzt.
13th level actually.
Lord Karsus
04-12-07, 09:06 AM 13th level actually.

-Excellent. Average my statement with Kane's statement, and you've got it.
Grandmaster_Kane
04-12-07, 08:53 PM 13th level actually.

Frc handbook says 13 but you have to factor in all of the recent battle

i mean he is fighting a war atm

million of orcs to kill and such a small amount of time to do it in...
Lord Karsus
04-12-07, 09:10 PM Frc handbook says 13 but you have to factor in all of the recent battle

i mean he is fighting a war atm

million of orcs to kill and such a small amount of time to do it in...

-He was in a coma for a great deal of that time though, mind you. And anyway, all of that is factored into Bruenor's stats, since the FRCS stats for him are from DR 1372. The events of the Hunter's Blade Trilogy took place in DR 1369.
Grandmaster_Kane
04-14-07, 09:27 PM but you know bob doesnt write exactly like in campaign settings
Philalexandros
04-14-07, 09:56 PM The 3-4 year variance between RAS' novels and the official FRCS timeline is one of the few, major, variances I take into account when looking at the Realms.

Any number of meta-gaming reasons and theorems can be concocted for the disparity between, say, Obould in the FRCS (1372 DR) and Obould in the novels (1369 DR). At the end of the day, though, there is more than enough evidence in Obould's write-up that the FRCS stat-block actually reflects his status prior to the Hunters Blade Trilogy.
Alurvelve
04-15-07, 01:40 AM I can not remember where itwas but I remember reading somewhere that Bob used the Frcs and the silver marches book as inspirations to help n his novels of the Hunters Blade Trilogy.
Lord Karsus
04-15-07, 06:16 PM but you know bob doesnt write exactly like in campaign settings

-His writing style makes no difference. According to canon lore, X character is Y level.

The 3-4 year variance between RAS' novels and the official FRCS timeline is one of the few, major, variances I take into account when looking at the Realms.

Any number of meta-gaming reasons and theorems can be concocted for the disparity between, say, Obould in the FRCS (1372 DR) and Obould in the novels (1369 DR). At the end of the day, though, there is more than enough evidence in Obould's write-up that the FRCS stat-block actually reflects his status prior to the Hunters Blade Trilogy.

-I agree that it reflects his stats before the Hunter's Blade Trilogy. This is one of the reasons why I dislike Savlatore so much- because he feels the need to write in the past, he causes unneeded continuity errors like this. If, say, Drizzt and Co. had a relativley peaceful five years, the timeline for his novels would be bumped up to DR 1374, and we wouldn't have any more of this nonsense.

-But, his official stats are as per the FRCS, since no newer, "hard facts" (actual stats) have made the FRCS stats obsolete.
Karsus the Mad
04-15-07, 06:22 PM because he feels the need to write in the past, he causes unneeded continuity errors like this.
I find it funny that Obould was still planning the invasion of the Silver Marches in 1372 according to the FRCS, despite having already invaded in 1369 according to the novels:D
Lord Karsus
04-15-07, 06:24 PM I find it funny that Obould was still planning the invasion of the Silver Marches in 1372 according to the FRCS, despite having already invaded in 1369 according to the novels:D

-I rest my case.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ragnar_Frostaxe 03-22-07, 10:07 PM	I know someone already asked this in an old thread, but no one gave a response, so does anyone know about at least five Dwarves higher than 15 levels??. I know that in 2º ed because of the rules it was a no no, but since that has changed, are there any of them now??
Lord Karsus 03-22-07, 11:44 PM	Bandaerl Dumatheir, Dwarven Archlich Cleric (Dumathoin) 20 Tarngardt Steelshadow, Duergar Fighter 17 Grim Herald Morndin Gloomstorm, Duergar Cleric (Laduguer) 15 -That's all I've got...
Mad Mage 03-22-07, 11:56 PM	By the level you have for your second one, LK, I'd say King Harbromm of Citadel Adbar (who's statted in Silver Marches) would be a likely fit. He's a Fighter 10/Dwarven Defender 7, so why not?
Ragnar_Frostaxe 03-23-07, 01:34 AM	Humm, mostly Duergar eh. I was hoping there would be more shield or gold dwarves. Oh well thanks guys
draco1119 03-23-07, 03:35 AM	Bruenor Battlehammer. General Dagna, Emerus Warcrown and Torgar Hammerstriker, perhaps? I believe Ivan and Pikel Bouldershoulder are both in the 10-12 range...
Mad Mage 03-23-07, 12:18 PM	Bruenor Battlehammer. General Dagna, Emerus Warcrown and Torgar Hammerstriker, perhaps? I believe Ivan and Pikel Bouldershoulder are both in the 10-12 range... Ivan & Pikel are actual lvl 8 each, as per this article (http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/?doc=fr_lonedrowstats). Dagna and Torgar, as far as I can tell, have not officially been statted.
Boda 03-23-07, 12:28 PM	-Athrogate! -The dwarf that rules the undead city of graveyard or boneyard.
GothicDan 03-23-07, 12:53 PM	I'm curious. Are people actually trying to answer the original poster's question regarding high level (15+, established in RAW) dwarves, or just responding with the first RAS connotation that forms in their mind when they read the word 'Dwarf'? ;)
Lord Karsus 03-23-07, 02:10 PM	I'm curious. Are people actually trying to answer the original poster's question regarding high level (15+, established in RAW) dwarves, or just responding with the first RAS connotation that forms in their mind when they read the word 'Dwarf'? ;) -Hey, all of my contributions meet the criteria that the OP was asking for...
Alurvelve 03-23-07, 06:28 PM	Guldrim Hoaraxe male shield dwarf Ftr8/Def6 of sundabar. King Harbromm male shield dwarf Ftr17 of citadel adbar. Rorann Stonehammer male shield dwarf Clr17 of citadel adbar. Throm Forkbeard male shield dwarf Ftr6/Clr5/Chm5 of citadel adbar. Captain Druggath Shieldcleaver male shield dwarf Ftr8/Def6 of citadel adbar. King Emerus Warcrown male shield dwarf Ftr16 of citadel felbarr. Those are some of the ones from the silver marches book.
GothicDan 03-24-07, 06:12 AM	-Hey, all of my contributions meet the criteria that the OP was asking for... Dwarves of above 15th level?
draco1119 03-24-07, 08:44 AM	Ivan & Pikel are actual lvl 8 each, as per this article (http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/?doc=fr_lonedrowstats). :doh: I thought they were a little higher than that. Oops. Dagna and Torgar, as far as I can tell, have not officially been statted. At least I was right about King Emerus. :) I do remember that Dagna was the leader of the forces that Citadel Adbar sent to reclaim Mithral Hall from the Duergar, and I seem to recall reading a line in one of the novels about his being the most experienced commander Adbar, then Mithral Hall had, so I'd guess he's between 12 and 15. BTW, what are the stats for Pwent and Gandalug, I wonder?
creepy drifter 03-24-07, 01:36 PM	Ragnar, Just curious ... what did you need the information for? I actually have on file a few more dwarves of 15th+ level in the Realms, but I'd rather provide them for you if they fit your unique criteria for whatever you are working on.
Ragnar_Frostaxe 03-24-07, 03:20 PM	I asked because I´m under the impression that dwarves only seem to get to high levels while they live in Citadels in the North, and not adventuring around Faerun like a lot of humans do. Also I was interested about wich dwarf sub race had the highest level dwarfs. From the posts here I pretty much confirm what I thought, that in terms of high levels, it´s a race between shield dwarves and duergar, gold dwarves apparently dont seem to have the drive to push past 10 levels. I see no reason behind this differences in sub races, maybe it´s because gold dwarves are more interested in trading that in anything else?? I dont know, what do yo guys think??
Alurvelve 03-24-07, 05:39 PM	Not sure if he ever got a offica write-up but there was an Artic Dwarf in the Rage of the Dragons books and if I remember right someone had said something like all of them in that trilogy were epic level. I would think that to be about right as well. Gold dwarfs spend more time doing the non combat oriented stuff such as mining, trading and etc, but that'd be my guess as well.
runestar 03-25-07, 09:00 AM	Dragons of faerun has 2 dwarves of lv15+, IIRC. They are mentioned in the entry regarding lady gemcloak.:)
The_Shaman 03-25-07, 09:30 AM	Here are some of the notables in Earthhard, detailed in the Shining South Mariochar Bladebeard (Cleric of Clangeddin 10/DDefender 7) - Lord Scepter of the Deep Realm Vorn Steeleye (Fighter 8/Great Rift Skyguard 10) - Commander of the Peacehammers Gwarr Stouthammer (Cleric 11 of Moradin/Divine Disciple 4 of Moradin) - High Priest of the Temple of the Moraddinsamman There are a few other 10+ characters, too.
Critalondel 03-25-07, 09:48 AM	Well, the findings shouldn't be terribly surprising. Dwarves are, after all, Lawful Good. There shouldn't be as many of them tromping around the Realms, axes in hand, for as long into their careers as many of the other races. The Dwarves that reach high level -- those that are the champions and leaders of their race -- are for more likely (given their Lawful upringing) to want to be at home, surrounded by hearth and Clan, lending their abilities to the defense of their blood instead of just roaming around on "adventures." Even Elves (which are supposed to, in theory, be fairly rare as adventurers go due to the Retreat) are Chaotic Good, at least, which means there's bound to be more of them determined to "do their own thing" and hike around human lands doing stuff and earning xp. So in a way, it makes sense for most of the high-level Dwarves to be found in, well, traditionally Dwarven lands, doing traditionally Dwarven stuff (hanging out with other Dwarves, wackin' orcs). And ditto, the Shield Dwarf (most populous, so there'd be some of high level) and the Duergar (since everything in the Underdark is cool/higher level/more dangerous/whatever, a long-running tradition) being those with the most high level characters. I wouldn't necessarily say Gold Dwarves like the drive to gain high levels -- I'd just there there's not as many of them, so it's simple math that there shouldn't be as many of them with high levels gaining fame in the Realms.
GothicDan 03-25-07, 10:37 AM	Oddly enough, the most powerful Elves that we've seen tend to be Lawful (and often Sun Elves). For instance, the Srinshee was originally a Lawful Neutral Sun Elf (level 30) and Eltargrim was a Lawful Good Sun Elf (Fighter 25, Mage 18 upon death).
bitter thorn 03-25-07, 09:39 PM	I asked because I´m under the impression that dwarves only seem to get to high levels while they live in Citadels in the North, and not adventuring around Faerun like a lot of humans do. Also I was interested about wich dwarf sub race had the highest level dwarfs. From the posts here I pretty much confirm what I thought, that in terms of high levels, it´s a race between shield dwarves and duergar, gold dwarves apparently dont seem to have the drive to push past 10 levels. I see no reason behind this differences in sub races, maybe it´s because gold dwarves are more interested in trading that in anything else?? I dont know, what do yo guys think?? Honestly I think this is more a fluke of what's been published after 2nd ed than a reflection of the demographics of Dwarves in the Realms. I would avoid reaching conclusions based on a lack of cannon evidence. I get the impression that there are quite a few higher level (+15) Gold Dwarves and Shield Dwarves in 3.X FR, but we just haven't had a chance to see them in print yet. I don't think that the levels we see published in SM are anomolous. I think we are simply working from a very small sample group, and it's going to hard to reach well supported conclusions based on the very limited mechanical information that is currently available.
Lord Karsus 03-26-07, 12:04 AM	Dwarves of above 15th level? -Yes indeed...
Ragnar_Frostaxe 03-28-07, 03:08 PM	Ok so how about the most powerfull dwarf ever. Just out of curiosity... and by powerfull I mean individual prowess, not influence and friends etc. Thoughts??
Lord Karsus 03-28-07, 03:15 PM	Ok so how about the most powerfull dwarf ever. Just out of curiosity... and by powerfull I mean individual prowess, not influence and friends etc. Thoughts?? -How about Moradin, then? -If not, then how about Deep Duerra? She was once a mortal Duergar, and look at her now.
Ragnar_Frostaxe 03-29-07, 06:20 PM	Ok how about some stats fot them before they became god/demi gods??
Lord Karsus 03-29-07, 06:43 PM	Ok how about some stats fot them before they became god/demi gods?? -Stats? Well, asides for her deific stats, she has none. But, suffice to say, no ordinary idiot is going to be elevated to divinity. She probably had a few levels in Psion and/or Psionic Warrior, and maybe Fighter.
The_Shaman 03-30-07, 09:07 AM	More than a few, I'd wager - to be a deity of mentalism, I would expect her to have been at least lvl 20 before her ascention. IMO it's just that high-level dwarven characters, due to their lawful nature, don't get out much - they have the great dwarven battles to fight. If a book on the Deep Realm comes out, methinks there would be quite a few high-level gold dwarves there. As for the wild ones... where is Chult covered? I don't think there was much on it in Shining South, and I don't have Serpent Kingdoms.
Lord Karsus 03-30-07, 10:11 AM	More than a few, I'd wager - to be a deity of mentalism, I would expect her to have been at least lvl 20 before her ascention. -Well, it's not necessary. Laduguer (Who I believe elevated her) could have been trying to pull a Talos- raising a mortal to divinity, and then trying to leech off of them.
The_Shaman 03-30-07, 03:30 PM	Possible, but I'm thinking about something else: to become a deity of something, you should pretty much exemplify it. Hence, even if she's not that powerful (although when you consider a deity as a reference point, it's a rather relative statement) she should be a consummate psionicist if she is to assume the mantle of a deity of mentalism, particularly since it's a skill Laduguer himself doesn't have (and hence can't bestow). She doesn't have to be lvl 20, I guess, but should still be a psion of more than impressive skill - i.e. like Midnight as a mage or Shevarash before his ascention.
GothicDan 03-30-07, 08:57 PM	I think Midnight's highest statted level before actually receiving divine power was 10th.
Karsus the Mad 03-30-07, 09:17 PM	I think Midnight's highest statted level before actually receiving divine power was 10th. I thought she was a 9th level mage?
GothicDan 03-30-07, 09:40 PM	Maybe you're right. Could be 9. In any event - she was low-ish to mid level at best. :)
Lord Karsus 03-30-07, 11:28 PM	-According to Time of Troubles: Shadowdale, she is 7th level. According to Time of Troubles: Tantras, she is 9th level. ToT:T was her last set of stats, before her elevation to divinity.
Critalondel 03-31-07, 01:48 AM	To be fair, the Time of Troubles (and those that attained godhood because of it) was kind of a special case scenario.
The_Shaman 03-31-07, 12:01 PM	-According to Time of Troubles: Shadowdale, she is 7th level. According to Time of Troubles: Tantras, she is 9th level. ToT:T was her last set of stats, before her elevation to divinity. My bad, then. Still, I do think that Deep Duerra would have to be a noted psionicist to ascend (arguably, with Midnight at least she got the mojo from a deity of magic), although I guess there are no rules on it.
Mad Mage 03-31-07, 01:17 PM	My estimation on Deep Duerra's mortal class levels upon achieving divinity would be Fighter 20/Psion 10. Not sure how canon it is to the Realms, but the 3.X Core D&D sourcebook Demihuman Deities (Or was it one of the online updates?) stated that a character may or must be at least 30th level to be considered applicable for divinity. In some ways, that makes sense. In some ways, it doesn't.
Lord Karsus 03-31-07, 06:19 PM	Not sure how canon it is to the Realms, but the 3.X Core D&D sourcebook Demihuman Deities (Or was it one of the online updates?) stated that a character may or must be at least 30th level to be considered applicable for divinity. In some ways, that makes sense. In some ways, it doesn't. -I don't think that is really applicable in the Realms. Look at how the first Mystra attained divinity, and the second, Cyric, Kelemvor, Velsharoon, Finder Wyvernspur...A whole lot of deities who were once mortal, I don't believe, were anywhere near level 30 when they ascended.
The_Shaman 04-01-07, 08:27 AM	Ah, who knows. Perhaps lvl 30 is the minimum for starting the road to ascention based on your own power, which is rather rare in the Realms (iirc even Cyric had more than a little help).' Anyway, can anyone point me to some epic dwarven characters?
bitter thorn 04-01-07, 10:18 PM	Ah, who knows. Perhaps lvl 30 is the minimum for starting the road to ascention based on your own power, which is rather rare in the Realms (iirc even Cyric had more than a little help).' Anyway, can anyone point me to some epic dwarven characters? I can't cite any, but I tend to think that they are out there. We just don't have 3.x stats for them yet.
Lord Karsus 04-02-07, 10:11 AM	Ah, who knows. Perhaps lvl 30 is the minimum for starting the road to ascention based on your own power, which is rather rare in the Realms (iirc even Cyric had more than a little help).' -Well, thankfully, it doesn't work like that. I can't cite any, but I tend to think that they are out there. We just don't have 3.x stats for them yet. -Agreed. That is the most likely case.
Grandmaster_Kane 04-11-07, 09:25 PM	i dunno Bruenor 15-16 fighter (i forgot which) Athrogate 17 fighter
Lord Karsus 04-12-07, 08:51 AM	Bruenor 15-16 fighter (i forgot which) -I believe that Bruenor was in around 10, just like the rest of the Company of the Hall, sans Drizzt.
Karsus the Mad 04-12-07, 08:57 AM	-I believe that Bruenor was in around 10, just like the rest of the Company of the Hall, sans Drizzt. 13th level actually.
Lord Karsus 04-12-07, 09:06 AM	13th level actually. -Excellent. Average my statement with Kane's statement, and you've got it.
Grandmaster_Kane 04-12-07, 08:53 PM	13th level actually. Frc handbook says 13 but you have to factor in all of the recent battle i mean he is fighting a war atm million of orcs to kill and such a small amount of time to do it in...
Lord Karsus 04-12-07, 09:10 PM	Frc handbook says 13 but you have to factor in all of the recent battle i mean he is fighting a war atm million of orcs to kill and such a small amount of time to do it in... -He was in a coma for a great deal of that time though, mind you. And anyway, all of that is factored into Bruenor's stats, since the FRCS stats for him are from DR 1372. The events of the Hunter's Blade Trilogy took place in DR 1369.
Grandmaster_Kane 04-14-07, 09:27 PM	but you know bob doesnt write exactly like in campaign settings
Philalexandros 04-14-07, 09:56 PM	The 3-4 year variance between RAS' novels and the official FRCS timeline is one of the few, major, variances I take into account when looking at the Realms. Any number of meta-gaming reasons and theorems can be concocted for the disparity between, say, Obould in the FRCS (1372 DR) and Obould in the novels (1369 DR). At the end of the day, though, there is more than enough evidence in Obould's write-up that the FRCS stat-block actually reflects his status prior to the Hunters Blade Trilogy.
Alurvelve 04-15-07, 01:40 AM	I can not remember where itwas but I remember reading somewhere that Bob used the Frcs and the silver marches book as inspirations to help n his novels of the Hunters Blade Trilogy.
Lord Karsus 04-15-07, 06:16 PM	but you know bob doesnt write exactly like in campaign settings -His writing style makes no difference. According to canon lore, X character is Y level. The 3-4 year variance between RAS' novels and the official FRCS timeline is one of the few, major, variances I take into account when looking at the Realms. Any number of meta-gaming reasons and theorems can be concocted for the disparity between, say, Obould in the FRCS (1372 DR) and Obould in the novels (1369 DR). At the end of the day, though, there is more than enough evidence in Obould's write-up that the FRCS stat-block actually reflects his status prior to the Hunters Blade Trilogy. -I agree that it reflects his stats before the Hunter's Blade Trilogy. This is one of the reasons why I dislike Savlatore so much- because he feels the need to write in the past, he causes unneeded continuity errors like this. If, say, Drizzt and Co. had a relativley peaceful five years, the timeline for his novels would be bumped up to DR 1374, and we wouldn't have any more of this nonsense. -But, his official stats are as per the FRCS, since no newer, "hard facts" (actual stats) have made the FRCS stats obsolete.
Karsus the Mad 04-15-07, 06:22 PM	because he feels the need to write in the past, he causes unneeded continuity errors like this. I find it funny that Obould was still planning the invasion of the Silver Marches in 1372 according to the FRCS, despite having already invaded in 1369 according to the novels:D
Lord Karsus 04-15-07, 06:24 PM	I find it funny that Obould was still planning the invasion of the Silver Marches in 1372 according to the FRCS, despite having already invaded in 1369 according to the novels:D -I rest my case.