Hillsfar [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Hillsfar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Old Sparky
05-26-07, 09:50 AM So my players are following an adventure hook that will lead them to Hillsfar... but most of the party isn't exactly human. Currently, they consist of one human, human with draconic bloodline, and one half-celestial elf. There was also a gnome that has yet to be replaced... likely not with a human.

Currently no rogue (or other sneaky type) or even a wizard capable of altering appearances in the group. Given Hillsfar's high level of intolerance for non-humans, is there any way for them to sneak in or otherwise move about? Also, if they are in and captured, what happens in the arena (assuming they don't fight being captured and end up there)? Will they be set free outside the city if they win in the arena or will they just be locked up again until more monsters/competitors are found for them?

The information I have about Hillsfar comes from the FRCS and Mysteries of the Moonsea and its very straightforward with little deviation... Blah, blah, blah, humans only. Blah, blah, blah, non-humansl; blah blah, blah arena, minotaur, blah, blah red plumes.

Is everything about Hillsfar really this simple? If so, it seems like a very boring place from a DM's perspective --especially in 3rd edition where players have a lot more freedom in choosing races (more half-breeds, bloodlines, and ECL races that would have once been considered NPC monsters only).
The Ubbergeek
05-26-07, 11:38 AM As far as I know, the city was always xenophobic along the past editions - I remembed the Hillsfar old videogame. Never lenient on non-humans.
msatran
05-26-07, 12:49 PM Well, here's the deal. What year is it?

Since Farthest Reach screwed this up, too, do whatever the !#$%! you like with it. You are under no obligation to even attempt to understand what this city actually does now, since when Richard Baker had the Zhents conquer it, we were not provided with ANY new information, and Mysteries of the Moonsea had been out for less than a month or two.

We're ALL asking this question. We don't even know the name of the Lieutennant Governor who governs the place for Zhentil Keep. We don't know where Malthiir is, and let me tell you, if you thought the battles in the Elven Forest were badly handled, Malthiir going from "Superparanoid supercompetent wizard" to complete idiot caught with his pants down in less than 600 pages really irked me.

I'll be honest. As far as I know, there IS no information on the sociopolitical structure of Hillsfar now that it is a Zhentish puppet state, other than the fact that there are no Red Plumes!
ShadezofDis
05-26-07, 01:24 PM Which is why I would encourage the OP to totally ignore the events in whatever book you happen to be talking about M.

There's no reason not to run Hillsfar as "pre-take over" and every reason to do so. (except for the humans only bent, but that's not going to go away just because the Zhents took over, unless they replace the populous)

Now, as for the OP's question;
Given the party make up I'm not sure it's a good idea to have them go to Hillsfar. If they can't disguise themselves then they are likely to get captured trying to enter the city. They might be able to do a sewer entry and hide out in the sewers while a human goes exploring, perhaps trying to buy some sort of disguising magic item from the Red Wizards Enclave, for a price and a favor, or seeking help from the Thieves Guild (pricey and a good chance for betrayal, unless you chose to have it otherwise) or the Mages Guild (more expensive but probably safer, only probably though).

Specifically how many Hillsfarians are racists?
Can't really say, I'd guess (and run it as) 1/4 being true racists (ie. racist in their own hearts, as in they would kill/turn in a family member whom fraternized with other races), 1/2 being somewhat racist (ie. racist to an extent, but would probably let close friends/family members slide, they'd kill/turn in a stranger though), 1/8 being racist because everyone else is (if they know of something then they might turn in the people, but only if it will really get them something) and 1/8 not being racist, probably split 75% who don't actively do anything and a 25% resistance group or whatever (not actively battling the Red Plumes in the streets, but setting up safe houses, rescuing, ect)

What PCs might face in the Arena;
I'd have them tried and depending upon how they treat the judge and such would depend on how many fights they'd have to go through and I'd make that 1-3 (unless they were very insulting to the judge, in which case it'd be until their death). They'd definitely have their stuff taken, they'd be given a short sword, leather and a shield, or something like that for fights and between fights they'd be locked up in a cell and perhaps beaten or something (maybe a -1 con modifier per day spent in the cell if they're beaten, perhaps giving some sort of social tests to get the guards to stop and perhaps even like the character), little to no healing (definitely nothing magical, maybe some fort tests to avoid infection and disease if they don't get their wounds cleaned). When they are finally released I'd have them driven 10-20 miles away from the city and dropped off with a shirt, some pants and maybe a days worth of food.

Alright, one thing to keep in mind with Hillsfar is that they haven't been terribly racist for a long time, it's only been about 15 years or so, therefor it's easy to imagine a group of merchants who aren't racist at all and would provide aid to the party (though this is VERY dangerous for the merchants, so the PCs would need to be offering something special to get this help, or provided some sort of reason for the merchants to help them, ie. they saved a merchants family member, or a caravan of some sort, or something along those lines)

Well, that's all the thinkin I got in my right now.
MerrikCale
05-26-07, 03:09 PM Which is why I would encourage the OP to totally ignore the events in whatever book you happen to be talking about M.

Or take events from the book. Political intrique as people adjust or try to re-conquer the city. The fact that we know nothing about post take over Hillsfar could very well be a boon to the DM. Perhaps you're PCs could become involved in a revolt, perhaps even one lead by the previously suppressed non-Humans, such as those in the Arena.
The Ubbergeek
05-26-07, 08:10 PM It's an opportunity to make up the details... The Forgotten Realms have the quality/default of being a very detailed setting; and now you are offered Greyhawk-grade freedom. Make the missing things along your campaign's themes! ;)

As Merrik said, basicaly.
GothicDan
05-26-07, 08:14 PM I suppose that would be good advice, if we didn't pay money in the first place for the campaign setting to be at least given basic details. Good thing none of us ever bought material with the intent of integrating canon into our campaigns, right?

That's why my Waterdeep is really a floating zoo of sentient squirrels, and Thay is ruled by Clerics of Dugnarigorgorgor, High Lord of the Dance!
The Ubbergeek
05-26-07, 08:52 PM I suppose that would be good advice, if we didn't pay money in the first place for the campaign setting to be at least given basic details. Good thing none of us ever bought material with the intent of integrating canon into our campaigns, right?

That's why my Waterdeep is really a floating zoo of sentient squirrels, and Thay is ruled by Clerics of Dugnarigorgorgor, High Lord of the Dance!

Hey, hey, don't be angry... Peoples have different expectations on what a game material book have to offer. Some, like you, want it complex and elaborated, precise and all. Bon... And somes prefer material that allow levy, that allow opportunities for DM to brew their own stuff for their campaigns in the less detailed places of stuff.

Wasn't it a draw of Greyhawk and Eberron compared to our setting? Beyond the main lines and the general explanations, much of both settings where left for the DM to developate at THEIR own tastes. It's not a bad game design philosophy (I prefer it more detailed as you, but I agree FR COULD be benifit from less canon and more openess).

And as for your sarcasm bit, well... It sounds very Planescapey. ;) COuld make a nice comedy one-shot.
MerrikCale
05-26-07, 11:25 PM I suppose that would be good advice, if we didn't pay money in the first place for the campaign setting to be at least given basic details. Good thing none of us ever bought material with the intent of integrating canon into our campaigns, right?

That's why my Waterdeep is really a floating zoo of sentient squirrels, and Thay is ruled by Clerics of Dugnarigorgorgor, High Lord of the Dance!

Now now GD, things change. At some point we'll come to know what happens at Hillsfar but perhaps the OP can use the current flux as an oppurtunity.

And what are the domains for the High Lord of the Dance anyway? Thay sounds fun.
GothicDan
05-26-07, 11:33 PM Domains: Stupidity, Flux, Ignorance, Crudeness.

... And maybe Trickery.
Old Sparky
05-27-07, 09:35 AM I realize I could change everything on a whim to suit my specific campaign needs 10 ways til... well, today, actually. I was more or less looking to keep Hillsfar the xenophobic city both I and my players are familiar with.

What I was hoping for was some additional lore concerning the city with how non-humans manage there... with all the diversity in the Realms, now more than ever, there are going to be a few who evade the system.

Right now, with the exception of high level non-humans (higher than the guards & such) forcing their way into the city and doing whatever they please, Hillsfar seems to have everything except the thieves guild locked down... and no one's aware about the wererat infiltration yet, as far as I know.

So my players' best bet is to attempt to disguise themselves, move about quietly and get gone as quickly as possible... and should something happen and they do get arrested, they lose all equipment, sent to the arena with short swords, and ousted a good distance from the city should the survive... right?
dragonheart
05-27-07, 09:52 AM If you are keeping Hillsfar xenophobic then your best bet is actually to have the party camp outside the city (maybe in the ruins of Yulash) and have the human enter the city to buy supplies and needed materials. If they enter the city they are (should be) found out fairly quickly and sent to the arena until either they are killed in combats there or they are bought free by someone who sees a use for them elsewhere. THis may well be the Zhentarim - now using the arena as a testing ground to find effective teams of demi human adventurers to explore or spy on Myth Drannor, The Border Forest and other elven regions. Other possible groups that would buy them free for similar reasons might be the Thayans or sharrans who would send them as sabateurs to Aglarond.
ShadezofDis
05-27-07, 09:14 PM Right now, with the exception of high level non-humans (higher than the guards & such) forcing their way into the city and doing whatever they please, Hillsfar seems to have everything except the thieves guild locked down... and no one's aware about the wererat infiltration yet, as far as I know.

So my players' best bet is to attempt to disguise themselves, move about quietly and get gone as quickly as possible... and should something happen and they do get arrested, they lose all equipment, sent to the arena with short swords, and ousted a good distance from the city should the survive... right?

Does your party have any humans? If so the sewer infiltration and sending humans to investigate (they should go through the main gate though, so they have visitor passes) the city should work pretty well. I'd put some monsters in the sewers (much like waterdeep) and perhaps some wererats nests (and the PCs could even get the theives guild on thier side by foiling a wererat invation or whatever)

Anyhow, I'd see the thieves helping for a price (and I'd make it hefty and if the PCs try to pay less the thieves just betray them), I could see the mages guild helping, I could see individual traders helping but these would all be people that the PCs would have to meet, feel out if they are sympathetic to nonhumans and then work out an arrangement with. So it's quite a lot of work for the PCs and they might not think of everything they'll need to cover (ie. the nonhumans get human disguises, they still need visitor passes or resident passes if they are stopped by red plumes)

Anyhow, as for the detailed vs undetailed, I'll take detailed everytime. I can change details SO easily, so very, very easily. I can't make up the police forces, the ministers, the magisters, the tax collectors, the shippers, the smugglers, the manufacturers, the guilds, the gangs, the family groups, the mercenary groups, the nature of the buildings, the social customs, the clergies, etc etc etc. Well, I can, it just takes months and months.

So give me detailed EVERY time please :)
Faraer
05-29-07, 11:28 AM Currently no rogue (or other sneaky type) or even a wizard capable of altering appearances in the group. Given Hillsfar's high level of intolerance for non-humans, is there any way for them to sneak in or otherwise move about?Most adventuring bands would go about it through contacts and allies.Is everything about Hillsfar really this simple?Of course it isn't as simple as given in overviews. But that's the approximate stance, as far as Maalthiir's government goes. Here's (http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0311C&L=REALMS-L&P=R4963&I=-3) a glimpse of Hillfarian intrigue.If so, it seems like a very boring place from a DM's perspectiveOnly a DM who wants her nonhuman PCs to have an easy time there, surely.--especially in 3rd edition where players have a lot more freedom in choosing races (more half-breeds, bloodlines, and ECL races that would have once been considered NPC monsters only).That the new rules explicitly cater to weird PC races has nothing to do with what's good for Realms campaigns.
Burningspear
05-29-07, 09:11 PM BTW: i have a attempt by another player to make up a prestige class: Red Plumes of Hillsfar...

interested? (only thing is, i don't have it digital, so i would have to write up the whole darn thing) :tie:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Old Sparky 05-26-07, 09:50 AM	So my players are following an adventure hook that will lead them to Hillsfar... but most of the party isn't exactly human. Currently, they consist of one human, human with draconic bloodline, and one half-celestial elf. There was also a gnome that has yet to be replaced... likely not with a human. Currently no rogue (or other sneaky type) or even a wizard capable of altering appearances in the group. Given Hillsfar's high level of intolerance for non-humans, is there any way for them to sneak in or otherwise move about? Also, if they are in and captured, what happens in the arena (assuming they don't fight being captured and end up there)? Will they be set free outside the city if they win in the arena or will they just be locked up again until more monsters/competitors are found for them? The information I have about Hillsfar comes from the FRCS and Mysteries of the Moonsea and its very straightforward with little deviation... Blah, blah, blah, humans only. Blah, blah, blah, non-humansl; blah blah, blah arena, minotaur, blah, blah red plumes. Is everything about Hillsfar really this simple? If so, it seems like a very boring place from a DM's perspective --especially in 3rd edition where players have a lot more freedom in choosing races (more half-breeds, bloodlines, and ECL races that would have once been considered NPC monsters only).
The Ubbergeek 05-26-07, 11:38 AM	As far as I know, the city was always xenophobic along the past editions - I remembed the Hillsfar old videogame. Never lenient on non-humans.
msatran 05-26-07, 12:49 PM	Well, here's the deal. What year is it? Since Farthest Reach screwed this up, too, do whatever the !#$%! you like with it. You are under no obligation to even attempt to understand what this city actually does now, since when Richard Baker had the Zhents conquer it, we were not provided with ANY new information, and Mysteries of the Moonsea had been out for less than a month or two. We're ALL asking this question. We don't even know the name of the Lieutennant Governor who governs the place for Zhentil Keep. We don't know where Malthiir is, and let me tell you, if you thought the battles in the Elven Forest were badly handled, Malthiir going from "Superparanoid supercompetent wizard" to complete idiot caught with his pants down in less than 600 pages really irked me. I'll be honest. As far as I know, there IS no information on the sociopolitical structure of Hillsfar now that it is a Zhentish puppet state, other than the fact that there are no Red Plumes!
ShadezofDis 05-26-07, 01:24 PM	Which is why I would encourage the OP to totally ignore the events in whatever book you happen to be talking about M. There's no reason not to run Hillsfar as "pre-take over" and every reason to do so. (except for the humans only bent, but that's not going to go away just because the Zhents took over, unless they replace the populous) Now, as for the OP's question; Given the party make up I'm not sure it's a good idea to have them go to Hillsfar. If they can't disguise themselves then they are likely to get captured trying to enter the city. They might be able to do a sewer entry and hide out in the sewers while a human goes exploring, perhaps trying to buy some sort of disguising magic item from the Red Wizards Enclave, for a price and a favor, or seeking help from the Thieves Guild (pricey and a good chance for betrayal, unless you chose to have it otherwise) or the Mages Guild (more expensive but probably safer, only probably though). Specifically how many Hillsfarians are racists? Can't really say, I'd guess (and run it as) 1/4 being true racists (ie. racist in their own hearts, as in they would kill/turn in a family member whom fraternized with other races), 1/2 being somewhat racist (ie. racist to an extent, but would probably let close friends/family members slide, they'd kill/turn in a stranger though), 1/8 being racist because everyone else is (if they know of something then they might turn in the people, but only if it will really get them something) and 1/8 not being racist, probably split 75% who don't actively do anything and a 25% resistance group or whatever (not actively battling the Red Plumes in the streets, but setting up safe houses, rescuing, ect) What PCs might face in the Arena; I'd have them tried and depending upon how they treat the judge and such would depend on how many fights they'd have to go through and I'd make that 1-3 (unless they were very insulting to the judge, in which case it'd be until their death). They'd definitely have their stuff taken, they'd be given a short sword, leather and a shield, or something like that for fights and between fights they'd be locked up in a cell and perhaps beaten or something (maybe a -1 con modifier per day spent in the cell if they're beaten, perhaps giving some sort of social tests to get the guards to stop and perhaps even like the character), little to no healing (definitely nothing magical, maybe some fort tests to avoid infection and disease if they don't get their wounds cleaned). When they are finally released I'd have them driven 10-20 miles away from the city and dropped off with a shirt, some pants and maybe a days worth of food. Alright, one thing to keep in mind with Hillsfar is that they haven't been terribly racist for a long time, it's only been about 15 years or so, therefor it's easy to imagine a group of merchants who aren't racist at all and would provide aid to the party (though this is VERY dangerous for the merchants, so the PCs would need to be offering something special to get this help, or provided some sort of reason for the merchants to help them, ie. they saved a merchants family member, or a caravan of some sort, or something along those lines) Well, that's all the thinkin I got in my right now.
MerrikCale 05-26-07, 03:09 PM	Which is why I would encourage the OP to totally ignore the events in whatever book you happen to be talking about M. Or take events from the book. Political intrique as people adjust or try to re-conquer the city. The fact that we know nothing about post take over Hillsfar could very well be a boon to the DM. Perhaps you're PCs could become involved in a revolt, perhaps even one lead by the previously suppressed non-Humans, such as those in the Arena.
The Ubbergeek 05-26-07, 08:10 PM	It's an opportunity to make up the details... The Forgotten Realms have the quality/default of being a very detailed setting; and now you are offered Greyhawk-grade freedom. Make the missing things along your campaign's themes! ;) As Merrik said, basicaly.
GothicDan 05-26-07, 08:14 PM	I suppose that would be good advice, if we didn't pay money in the first place for the campaign setting to be at least given basic details. Good thing none of us ever bought material with the intent of integrating canon into our campaigns, right? That's why my Waterdeep is really a floating zoo of sentient squirrels, and Thay is ruled by Clerics of Dugnarigorgorgor, High Lord of the Dance!
The Ubbergeek 05-26-07, 08:52 PM	I suppose that would be good advice, if we didn't pay money in the first place for the campaign setting to be at least given basic details. Good thing none of us ever bought material with the intent of integrating canon into our campaigns, right? That's why my Waterdeep is really a floating zoo of sentient squirrels, and Thay is ruled by Clerics of Dugnarigorgorgor, High Lord of the Dance! Hey, hey, don't be angry... Peoples have different expectations on what a game material book have to offer. Some, like you, want it complex and elaborated, precise and all. Bon... And somes prefer material that allow levy, that allow opportunities for DM to brew their own stuff for their campaigns in the less detailed places of stuff. Wasn't it a draw of Greyhawk and Eberron compared to our setting? Beyond the main lines and the general explanations, much of both settings where left for the DM to developate at THEIR own tastes. It's not a bad game design philosophy (I prefer it more detailed as you, but I agree FR COULD be benifit from less canon and more openess). And as for your sarcasm bit, well... It sounds very Planescapey. ;) COuld make a nice comedy one-shot.
MerrikCale 05-26-07, 11:25 PM	I suppose that would be good advice, if we didn't pay money in the first place for the campaign setting to be at least given basic details. Good thing none of us ever bought material with the intent of integrating canon into our campaigns, right? That's why my Waterdeep is really a floating zoo of sentient squirrels, and Thay is ruled by Clerics of Dugnarigorgorgor, High Lord of the Dance! Now now GD, things change. At some point we'll come to know what happens at Hillsfar but perhaps the OP can use the current flux as an oppurtunity. And what are the domains for the High Lord of the Dance anyway? Thay sounds fun.
GothicDan 05-26-07, 11:33 PM	Domains: Stupidity, Flux, Ignorance, Crudeness. ... And maybe Trickery.
Old Sparky 05-27-07, 09:35 AM	I realize I could change everything on a whim to suit my specific campaign needs 10 ways til... well, today, actually. I was more or less looking to keep Hillsfar the xenophobic city both I and my players are familiar with. What I was hoping for was some additional lore concerning the city with how non-humans manage there... with all the diversity in the Realms, now more than ever, there are going to be a few who evade the system. Right now, with the exception of high level non-humans (higher than the guards & such) forcing their way into the city and doing whatever they please, Hillsfar seems to have everything except the thieves guild locked down... and no one's aware about the wererat infiltration yet, as far as I know. So my players' best bet is to attempt to disguise themselves, move about quietly and get gone as quickly as possible... and should something happen and they do get arrested, they lose all equipment, sent to the arena with short swords, and ousted a good distance from the city should the survive... right?
dragonheart 05-27-07, 09:52 AM	If you are keeping Hillsfar xenophobic then your best bet is actually to have the party camp outside the city (maybe in the ruins of Yulash) and have the human enter the city to buy supplies and needed materials. If they enter the city they are (should be) found out fairly quickly and sent to the arena until either they are killed in combats there or they are bought free by someone who sees a use for them elsewhere. THis may well be the Zhentarim - now using the arena as a testing ground to find effective teams of demi human adventurers to explore or spy on Myth Drannor, The Border Forest and other elven regions. Other possible groups that would buy them free for similar reasons might be the Thayans or sharrans who would send them as sabateurs to Aglarond.
ShadezofDis 05-27-07, 09:14 PM	Right now, with the exception of high level non-humans (higher than the guards & such) forcing their way into the city and doing whatever they please, Hillsfar seems to have everything except the thieves guild locked down... and no one's aware about the wererat infiltration yet, as far as I know. So my players' best bet is to attempt to disguise themselves, move about quietly and get gone as quickly as possible... and should something happen and they do get arrested, they lose all equipment, sent to the arena with short swords, and ousted a good distance from the city should the survive... right? Does your party have any humans? If so the sewer infiltration and sending humans to investigate (they should go through the main gate though, so they have visitor passes) the city should work pretty well. I'd put some monsters in the sewers (much like waterdeep) and perhaps some wererats nests (and the PCs could even get the theives guild on thier side by foiling a wererat invation or whatever) Anyhow, I'd see the thieves helping for a price (and I'd make it hefty and if the PCs try to pay less the thieves just betray them), I could see the mages guild helping, I could see individual traders helping but these would all be people that the PCs would have to meet, feel out if they are sympathetic to nonhumans and then work out an arrangement with. So it's quite a lot of work for the PCs and they might not think of everything they'll need to cover (ie. the nonhumans get human disguises, they still need visitor passes or resident passes if they are stopped by red plumes) Anyhow, as for the detailed vs undetailed, I'll take detailed everytime. I can change details SO easily, so very, very easily. I can't make up the police forces, the ministers, the magisters, the tax collectors, the shippers, the smugglers, the manufacturers, the guilds, the gangs, the family groups, the mercenary groups, the nature of the buildings, the social customs, the clergies, etc etc etc. Well, I can, it just takes months and months. So give me detailed EVERY time please :)
Faraer 05-29-07, 11:28 AM	Currently no rogue (or other sneaky type) or even a wizard capable of altering appearances in the group. Given Hillsfar's high level of intolerance for non-humans, is there any way for them to sneak in or otherwise move about?Most adventuring bands would go about it through contacts and allies.Is everything about Hillsfar really this simple?Of course it isn't as simple as given in overviews. But that's the approximate stance, as far as Maalthiir's government goes. Here's (http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0311C&L=REALMS-L&P=R4963&I=-3) a glimpse of Hillfarian intrigue.If so, it seems like a very boring place from a DM's perspectiveOnly a DM who wants her nonhuman PCs to have an easy time there, surely.--especially in 3rd edition where players have a lot more freedom in choosing races (more half-breeds, bloodlines, and ECL races that would have once been considered NPC monsters only).That the new rules explicitly cater to weird PC races has nothing to do with what's good for Realms campaigns.
Burningspear 05-29-07, 09:11 PM	BTW: i have a attempt by another player to make up a prestige class: Red Plumes of Hillsfar... interested? (only thing is, i don't have it digital, so i would have to write up the whole darn thing) :tie: