History of Shadow Walkers? [Archive] - Wizards Community

History of Shadow Walkers? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WalkerShado
02-21-08, 10:46 PM I hope I have this in the right place...

This has been bugging me for a long time now... Back in AD&D, 2nd Edition there was this one D&D book called "Wizards and rogues of the Realms". It was an Accessory book for the Forgotten Realms Campagin setting. In this book, it featured a new class called "Shadow Walker". This was my favorite class in AD&D. The old Shadow Walkers were basic a group of rogues that could use shadow magic in their efforts to battle evil. When D&D 3rd Edition that all changed...

I had no facts on what happened to them since 2nd edition for a long time, but the most I could find was that they were all killed off and the God Mask replaced them with his own Evil guild. I found out recently that theres a Shadow Walker Racial Template in the Unapprocable east book. What I'm looking for is if anyone could tell me what realy happened to them? Or perhaps if someone could refer me to a book or two about what happened to them?

Thanks!!
MarkusTay63
02-21-08, 11:27 PM I think that group of Drow Assasins from Chaulssin (the Jaezred Chaulssin) are Shadow Walkers, but I believe their ability comes from their heritage with Shadow Dragons, so its probably not what you are looking for.
PointofDarkness
02-21-08, 11:30 PM In the twilight triliogy by Paul S. Kemp they're a group of shadow walkers (supporting characters) that devote there services to the chosens of mask. Which i'm pretty sure you use the racial template you noted.
Green Elven Vampire
02-23-08, 07:49 AM In our campaign the art of Shadowdancing (PrC) was an elven creation that was lost during the time of Arryvandar and picked up by humans in it's current form.

But the ancient art of Shadowdancing leads to greater powers when one becomes a Shadow Walker after reaching 10'th character level. and then finally a Shadow Lord (PrC) after reaching 10'th level in Shadowdancer.

I know Shadow Lord and Shadow walker are related to Mask, but we simply replaced Mask with Erevan Ilesere as he mostly fits that bill.
GothicDan
02-23-08, 08:38 AM Now, to actually try to address the OP's question, rather than rambling on about novels and my own games. ;)

In 3E, anything Shadow-related immediately became Evil due to WotC's PR campaigns. I don't know of anything that talks about the old school non-evil Shadow Walkers from 2E, and I bet they were just ignored entirely.
Zanan
02-23-08, 10:07 AM I think that group of Drow Assasins from Chaulssin (the Jaezred Chaulssin) are Shadow Walkers, but I believe their ability comes from their heritage with Shadow Dragons, so its probably not what you are looking for.

You think wrong here. ;) The Jaezred Chaulssin have nothing to do with the shadowwalkers ... but much with drow dragons and half-shadow dragon/drow et al. There is a detailed article as a web-enhancement for Dragons of Faerūn.

As for the Shadow Walkers, they have been detailed in Unapproachable East, a template goes by the very same name and is very much linked to Mask. Do check out the Telflammar Shadowlord PrC in there too.
MarkusTay63
02-23-08, 12:17 PM Well, I stand corrected, then.

I usually just skip over anything with the word 'shadow' in it in my games - nothing has shadows, not even the PCs. :P

That being said, I never read rules regarding ANY of the classes with 'Shadow' in them, except for the 2e ones, which were far better IMO then all this talk of shadows being evil. Shadows aren't evil, they are just a place were a physical object blocks available light - I think designers need to take some very basic science courses. :rolleyes:

Anyway, when I read the WotSQ, the Chaulsin assassins just made me think 'Shadow Walker', nothing more. I didn't even know they had a class written up somewhere, because I had even less interest in them then the rest of the series, which is saying something.

You know, I can remember good fiction I read when I was twelve, but I seemed to have forgotten most of that series after only reading it a year ago.

As far as 'Shadow' walking, there are Ninja classes (and perhaps others) that do similar things in the 3e OA rules, as well. Unfortunely, I believe all of them have an evil 'taint' as well, do to Rokugon's similar take on Shadow stuff.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-23-08, 07:38 PM That being said, I never read rules regarding ANy of the classes with 'Shadow' in them, except for the 2e ones, which were far better IMO then all this talk of shadows being evil. Shadows aren't evil, they are just a place were a physical object blocks available light - I think designers need to take some very basic science courses. :rolleyes:

Indeed, if there is a shadow, it means there is at least some light, too (although light isn't inherently good just as darkness isn't inherently evil).
MarkusTay63
02-24-08, 01:31 AM Yeah, the whole "Dark is Bad" thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth - it reminds me of the old saying "Deepest, Darkest Africa", and all of the nasty connotations that go with it.

people were sacrificed to sun gods more often in history then 'dark' ones, and although Kali took on an 'evil bent' in modern literature, the Dark Earth Mother was more of a protector of her people, and the Thuggees were freedom-fighters (although they used terrorism and murder as a means to an end).

Another example would be the Vedic Ratri, who represented darkness, but also protected those who traveled in the Dark - she was not evil at all.

So, Light has just as much potential to be bad as darkness and Shadow have to be good - just look at how the Bedine view Amauntor. The brutal day-time sun beats down in harsh punishment, not warm comfort. ;)

EDIT:
And another thing - why is it usually women who represent Darkness, Shadow, the Moon, etc... all the things associated with Night?
GothicDan
02-24-08, 10:46 AM Nix/Nox also wasn't inherently Evil. A lot of the primal forces in Classical Myth were seen either as Neutral or maybe Neutral with a bit of 'leaning,' but mostly uncaring about the world around them. As time went on, some of the 'newer' gods absorbed their portfolios, though (like Apollo picking up Helios-like aspects).

Though Hecate, often associated with the Night, was very... Dangerous.

I like Shar being evil, only because we have another night deity, Selune, to be good.

Women usually tend to be Darkness/Night in my eyes, too. Nox was female, but Erebus (Darkness) was male. I think it has to deal with females being mysterious, cryptic, unknowable, unfathomable, etc. in most ancient societies. I mean, they were all, "Where the hell did THAT come from? How did THAT come out of THERE?"

And males represented brightness, day, light, in many societies.

Artemis was silver/night, Apollo was gold/light. We get a lot of our archetypes from Classical mythology. So I hope we don't hear any of that "it was all monotheism's fault." :)
MarkusTay63
02-24-08, 11:07 AM Only if you buy into all the DaVinci Code crap. ;)

Yeah, I thought of Apollo and Ra, and also D&D's Pelor and Lathander, but I didn't want my post to be overlong (for once).

Good point about women - the whole menstral cycle thing (and mood swings that go with it) must have confused the hell out of early man. :eek:

What did they do before the discovery of Maz... MesoAmerica? Now we can just feed them choclate.... :P
Green Elven Vampire
02-24-08, 02:49 PM What did they do before the discovery of Maz... MesoAmerica? Now we can just feed them choclate.... :P

Before Mesoamerica and chocolate there was Opium and absinthe to keep them happy!! lol.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-25-08, 12:51 PM So, Light has just as much potential to be bad as darkness and Shadow have to be good - just look at how the Bedine view Amauntor. The brutal day-time sun beats down in harsh punishment, not warm comfort. ;)

And of course, in the end it's all anthropocentric. There are plenty of animals who thrive at night or in darkness (and by the same token, there is plenty of life that thrives in the hot, dry desert--although, plenty of human life and culture has flourished in deserts too).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-25-08, 12:52 PM Good point about women - the whole menstral cycle thing (and mood swings that go with it) must have confused the hell out of early man. :eek:

It did, for a long time. All kinds of legends arose around it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WalkerShado 02-21-08, 10:46 PM	I hope I have this in the right place... This has been bugging me for a long time now... Back in AD&D, 2nd Edition there was this one D&D book called "Wizards and rogues of the Realms". It was an Accessory book for the Forgotten Realms Campagin setting. In this book, it featured a new class called "Shadow Walker". This was my favorite class in AD&D. The old Shadow Walkers were basic a group of rogues that could use shadow magic in their efforts to battle evil. When D&D 3rd Edition that all changed... I had no facts on what happened to them since 2nd edition for a long time, but the most I could find was that they were all killed off and the God Mask replaced them with his own Evil guild. I found out recently that theres a Shadow Walker Racial Template in the Unapprocable east book. What I'm looking for is if anyone could tell me what realy happened to them? Or perhaps if someone could refer me to a book or two about what happened to them? Thanks!!
MarkusTay63 02-21-08, 11:27 PM	I think that group of Drow Assasins from Chaulssin (the Jaezred Chaulssin) are Shadow Walkers, but I believe their ability comes from their heritage with Shadow Dragons, so its probably not what you are looking for.
PointofDarkness 02-21-08, 11:30 PM	In the twilight triliogy by Paul S. Kemp they're a group of shadow walkers (supporting characters) that devote there services to the chosens of mask. Which i'm pretty sure you use the racial template you noted.
Green Elven Vampire 02-23-08, 07:49 AM	In our campaign the art of Shadowdancing (PrC) was an elven creation that was lost during the time of Arryvandar and picked up by humans in it's current form. But the ancient art of Shadowdancing leads to greater powers when one becomes a Shadow Walker after reaching 10'th character level. and then finally a Shadow Lord (PrC) after reaching 10'th level in Shadowdancer. I know Shadow Lord and Shadow walker are related to Mask, but we simply replaced Mask with Erevan Ilesere as he mostly fits that bill.
GothicDan 02-23-08, 08:38 AM	Now, to actually try to address the OP's question, rather than rambling on about novels and my own games. ;) In 3E, anything Shadow-related immediately became Evil due to WotC's PR campaigns. I don't know of anything that talks about the old school non-evil Shadow Walkers from 2E, and I bet they were just ignored entirely.
Zanan 02-23-08, 10:07 AM	I think that group of Drow Assasins from Chaulssin (the Jaezred Chaulssin) are Shadow Walkers, but I believe their ability comes from their heritage with Shadow Dragons, so its probably not what you are looking for. You think wrong here. ;) The Jaezred Chaulssin have nothing to do with the shadowwalkers ... but much with drow dragons and half-shadow dragon/drow et al. There is a detailed article as a web-enhancement for Dragons of Faerūn. As for the Shadow Walkers, they have been detailed in Unapproachable East, a template goes by the very same name and is very much linked to Mask. Do check out the Telflammar Shadowlord PrC in there too.
MarkusTay63 02-23-08, 12:17 PM	Well, I stand corrected, then. I usually just skip over anything with the word 'shadow' in it in my games - nothing has shadows, not even the PCs. :P That being said, I never read rules regarding ANY of the classes with 'Shadow' in them, except for the 2e ones, which were far better IMO then all this talk of shadows being evil. Shadows aren't evil, they are just a place were a physical object blocks available light - I think designers need to take some very basic science courses. :rolleyes: Anyway, when I read the WotSQ, the Chaulsin assassins just made me think 'Shadow Walker', nothing more. I didn't even know they had a class written up somewhere, because I had even less interest in them then the rest of the series, which is saying something. You know, I can remember good fiction I read when I was twelve, but I seemed to have forgotten most of that series after only reading it a year ago. As far as 'Shadow' walking, there are Ninja classes (and perhaps others) that do similar things in the 3e OA rules, as well. Unfortunely, I believe all of them have an evil 'taint' as well, do to Rokugon's similar take on Shadow stuff.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-23-08, 07:38 PM	That being said, I never read rules regarding ANy of the classes with 'Shadow' in them, except for the 2e ones, which were far better IMO then all this talk of shadows being evil. Shadows aren't evil, they are just a place were a physical object blocks available light - I think designers need to take some very basic science courses. :rolleyes: Indeed, if there is a shadow, it means there is at least some light, too (although light isn't inherently good just as darkness isn't inherently evil).
MarkusTay63 02-24-08, 01:31 AM	Yeah, the whole "Dark is Bad" thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth - it reminds me of the old saying "Deepest, Darkest Africa", and all of the nasty connotations that go with it. people were sacrificed to sun gods more often in history then 'dark' ones, and although Kali took on an 'evil bent' in modern literature, the Dark Earth Mother was more of a protector of her people, and the Thuggees were freedom-fighters (although they used terrorism and murder as a means to an end). Another example would be the Vedic Ratri, who represented darkness, but also protected those who traveled in the Dark - she was not evil at all. So, Light has just as much potential to be bad as darkness and Shadow have to be good - just look at how the Bedine view Amauntor. The brutal day-time sun beats down in harsh punishment, not warm comfort. ;) EDIT: And another thing - why is it usually women who represent Darkness, Shadow, the Moon, etc... all the things associated with Night?
GothicDan 02-24-08, 10:46 AM	Nix/Nox also wasn't inherently Evil. A lot of the primal forces in Classical Myth were seen either as Neutral or maybe Neutral with a bit of 'leaning,' but mostly uncaring about the world around them. As time went on, some of the 'newer' gods absorbed their portfolios, though (like Apollo picking up Helios-like aspects). Though Hecate, often associated with the Night, was very... Dangerous. I like Shar being evil, only because we have another night deity, Selune, to be good. Women usually tend to be Darkness/Night in my eyes, too. Nox was female, but Erebus (Darkness) was male. I think it has to deal with females being mysterious, cryptic, unknowable, unfathomable, etc. in most ancient societies. I mean, they were all, "Where the hell did THAT come from? How did THAT come out of THERE?" And males represented brightness, day, light, in many societies. Artemis was silver/night, Apollo was gold/light. We get a lot of our archetypes from Classical mythology. So I hope we don't hear any of that "it was all monotheism's fault." :)
MarkusTay63 02-24-08, 11:07 AM	Only if you buy into all the DaVinci Code crap. ;) Yeah, I thought of Apollo and Ra, and also D&D's Pelor and Lathander, but I didn't want my post to be overlong (for once). Good point about women - the whole menstral cycle thing (and mood swings that go with it) must have confused the hell out of early man. :eek: What did they do before the discovery of Maz... MesoAmerica? Now we can just feed them choclate.... :P
Green Elven Vampire 02-24-08, 02:49 PM	What did they do before the discovery of Maz... MesoAmerica? Now we can just feed them choclate.... :P Before Mesoamerica and chocolate there was Opium and absinthe to keep them happy!! lol.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-25-08, 12:51 PM	So, Light has just as much potential to be bad as darkness and Shadow have to be good - just look at how the Bedine view Amauntor. The brutal day-time sun beats down in harsh punishment, not warm comfort. ;) And of course, in the end it's all anthropocentric. There are plenty of animals who thrive at night or in darkness (and by the same token, there is plenty of life that thrives in the hot, dry desert--although, plenty of human life and culture has flourished in deserts too).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-25-08, 12:52 PM	Good point about women - the whole menstral cycle thing (and mood swings that go with it) must have confused the hell out of early man. :eek: It did, for a long time. All kinds of legends arose around it.