Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mifelhagen 12-08-07, 01:52 AM	After reading the War of the Spider Queen, I'm wondering how the drow will survive in the Underdark with the lack of magic. warning: possible spoilers below Priest magic alone isn't enough for them to be down there, and the only reason they survived invasion attempts and civil war was because of the wizards. Even then, some of the more mystically weak cities fell. It seems like they will be crippled beyond repair when the spellplague and other 4ed "goodies" come along.
Redrake 12-08-07, 02:26 AM	They are going to be placed in cryogenic suspension waiting for 5E.:D
Green Elven Vampire 12-08-07, 02:34 AM	No, the 4ED game designers will retcon the crap out of them and tell us that the Underdark never had unique magic and that it's always been that way.
zakman 12-08-07, 08:40 AM	Underdark? Sorry, but I can't remember that something like an 'Underdark' has ever existed. :noway:
Zanan 12-08-07, 08:46 AM	After reading the War of the Spider Queen, I'm wondering how the drow will survive in the Underdark with the lack of magic. warning: possible spoilers below Priest magic alone isn't enough ... Of course it is. The patronage of the Spider Queen has helped them all along and I wouldn't be surprised if the lass herself shows up to protect her kin. BTW, Spellplague does not say that there won't be any arcane magic, or mages. IMHO, they want to "nuke" many of the utter-high-level wizards off the surface of Faerūn. Drow as a "monster race" will probably be less affected - if not story-wise though. (I.e., obviously, they will suffer too. But whether they do as badly as the surfacers remains to be seen. You see, we need some tough bad galls and guys.)
Hanali-in-Love 12-08-07, 08:52 AM	Underdark? Sorry, but I can't remember that something like an 'Underdark' has ever existed. :noway: See, it's already working! Wait until 4ED is in the stores and after spending a whole bunch of money you'll understand that it's always been that way. :weep:
Lord Karsus 12-08-07, 10:44 AM	Underdark? Sorry, but I can't remember that something like an 'Underdark' has ever existed. :noway: -Looks like the Q'whatshisname cast that spell again...:waits:
18DELTA 12-08-07, 03:06 PM	Would it be a suprize if they made the Drow part of the Unseelie Court, and retcon Lolth as The Queen or Air and Darkness? The Elves are going to be Fey in 4E.:rolleyes:
Andferne 12-08-07, 03:36 PM	Wonder if there will be some kind of save for our characters to make to see if we can keep them from haveing gone insane or dieing from this spellplague. Have a Will save maybe based off how many spell caster levels you have? idk. I see drow society getting turned upside down. Long live the weapons masters finally down with the winches.
HralorpAxpain 12-08-07, 03:47 PM	Well it seems the third book of The Lady Penitant trilogy will tell us who dies... from reading the blurb, it seems it's Lolth or Eilistraee who may get killed. I think it will be Eilistraee, as the Prelude to The Orc King suggest this to be so. We shall see.
VengefulGazeofGod 12-08-07, 04:15 PM	I think it would make sense for Eilistraee's old man to let her come home and leave mommy dearest all alone.
Lord Karsus 12-08-07, 04:31 PM	Wonder if there will be some kind of save for our characters to make to see if we can keep them from haveing gone insane or dieing from this spellplague. Have a Will save maybe based off how many spell caster levels you have? idk. -Well, first we'd have to be told what, exactly, the Spellplague does in the first place.
18DELTA 12-08-07, 06:13 PM	Lady E is probably an aspect of Selune!:rolleyes::eek: Which is worse her gettig killed by Lisa Smeadmen(sp), or WotC retconning her in to an Aspect of an other God?:rolleyes:
Mifelhagen 12-08-07, 06:17 PM	Well it seems the third book of The Lady Penitant trilogy will tell us who dies... from reading the blurb, it seems it's Lolth or Eilistraee who may get killed. I think it will be Eilistraee, as the Prelude to The Orc King suggest this to be so. We shall see. Actually, I'm of the opinion that this whole spellplague thing will interrupt their life or death game. Of course they are about to retcon the crap out of the elvish pantheon so we will see how this goes... cuz if Elistaee is just some human aspect for elves...
Mifelhagen 12-08-07, 06:26 PM	Of course it is. The patronage of the Spider Queen has helped them all along and I wouldn't be surprised if the lass herself shows up to protect her kin. Maybe, but aren't the gods going to be having problems of their own? Is lolth really going to be able to help them? Anyway, I'd like to see how things go for them if the brain-eaters take this opportunity to attack. They most certainly wont be weakened from these problems. And the beholders are supposed to be getting really nasty too...
HralorpAxpain 12-08-07, 11:13 PM	Actually, I'm of the opinion that this whole spellplague thing will interrupt their life or death game. Of course they are about to retcon the crap out of the elvish pantheon so we will see how this goes... cuz if Elistaee is just some human aspect for elves... Well I've not read any of The Lady Penitent yet (I have the War of the Spider Queen series to read first), but I did read the short blurbs for each of the three books (they were in the back of one of the The Last Mythal books I was flicking through). Well as I said, in 100 years from now in Forgotten Realms, Eilistraee is likely to be a goner. Of course, she may survive The Lady Penitent series and die later, so we shall see.
VengefulGazeofGod 12-09-07, 02:30 AM	And then they are going to say that Lloth lost her outerplane in the spellplague and make the War of the Spider Queen series pointless! Hey! I've got an idea! How about they just scrap all the gods and make them aspects/names of Ao?! Screw all the polytheism! Now, please excuse me why I go swallow razor blades in anticipation of 4E. :cool:
Lord Karsus 12-09-07, 09:52 AM	And then they are going to say that Lloth lost her outerplane in the spellplague and make the War of the Spider Queen series pointless! -Greater deities and pantheon heads are going to be "saved", as they have what it takes to maintain their own realms during this transplanar cataclysm.
VengefulGazeofGod 12-09-07, 05:25 PM	As for as I can tell one can not be certain with these guys. :cool:
Zireael 12-10-07, 09:34 AM	I hope the drow and Lloth will survive. They Have To Survive! (Sorry but 4Ed makes me write with Capital Letters)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-10-07, 11:04 AM	Remember that even Greater Deities are in danger where 4E changes are involved. They may be able to hold on to their planar realms, but their fate is still in the hands of the FR design team.:)
Kenzuki 12-10-07, 06:28 PM	Don't you know? Lolth is just another Aspect of Shar worshipped by the Drow who just THINK she was once and elven goddess but that's just what SHAR wants them to think.....:P
Lord Karsus 12-10-07, 07:18 PM	Don't you know? Lolth is just another Aspect of Shar worshipped by the Drow who just THINK she was once and elven goddess but that's just what SHAR wants them to think.....:P -In the east exists a cult that believes that Lolth and Shar are the same deity.
Kenzuki 12-10-07, 09:06 PM	-In the east exists a cult that believes that Lolth and Shar are the same deity. Maybe Wizards will pull another Talos/Gruumsh and Sehanine/Selune and merge the two?
Lord Karsus 12-10-07, 09:25 PM	Maybe Wizards will pull another Talos/Gruumsh and Sehanine/Selune and merge the two? -Hopefully not. But, I've given up on caring, really, so they can do what they want.
VengefulGazeofGod 12-10-07, 11:04 PM	I've decided that it's best to pick up a new hobby. D&D minis crossed my mind but that would still be giving them my money, so i'm adopting Warhammer 40K just to spite them. :cool:
DojiHoturi 12-10-07, 11:38 PM	I think Lolth, Ghaunadaur, and Eilistraee are all going to survive into 4th Ed. Looking at Grand history of the Realms is seems like the culling of the Drow gods ends with Kiaransalee, Vhaeraun, and Selvetarm. I think it was important for Eilistraee to absord Vhaeraun's portfolio to perhaps shift her into Greater God status so that she can survive the massive changes ahead. Just my two pennies, Doji
Zanan 12-11-07, 04:02 AM	I think Lolth, Ghaunadaur, and Eilistraee are all going to survive into 4th Ed. Looking at Grand history of the Realms is seems like the culling of the Drow gods ends with Kiaransalee, Vhaeraun, and Selvetarm. I think it was important for Eilistraee to absord Vhaeraun's portfolio to perhaps shift her into Greater God status so that she can survive the massive changes ahead. Just my two pennies, Doji Well, by default, two lesser deities do not make a greater deity. Not even by their rather limited number of followers. But then again, it is not exactly on us to know this and on the Wizards to keep to all the rules out there.
AskaniPsion 12-12-07, 11:32 PM	It has already been officially mentioned that Lolth is one of the Core gods in 4E so I am sure she will be fine in 4E FR. With the Spellplague, the Faerzress will probably be weakened or destroyed so hopefully the drow will come to the surface to build an all-drow city devoted to Lolth. :D I do hope Eli gets toasted though ;) I liked her brother better.
GreenKnight 12-13-07, 12:47 AM	I've decided that it's best to pick up a new hobby. D&D minis crossed my mind but that would still be giving them my money, so i'm adopting Warhammer 40K just to spite them. :cool: I take it you haven't been up to date with 40k, lately? Nevermind...
GreenKnight 12-13-07, 12:51 AM	Well, by default, two lesser deities do not make a greater deity. Lolth is an Intermediate God, while Vhaeraun is a Lesser God. So getting the power of a Lesser God may push her to Greater God status.
Zanan 12-13-07, 09:22 AM	Lolth has - I think that has been accepted as fact - reached that level when removing the Demonweb Pits out of the Abyss. Even if no book has picked up on this, the descriptions are quite clear in the relevant novels and Paul S. Kemp told us so as well (that he was under the same impression). I was actually not speaking of Lolth, but that Eilistraee achieved greater goddess stature because of the killings of Selvetarm/Kiaransalee* and Vhaeraun. Maybe we got mixed up here. *One of the many conundrums left open by the LP series, since no-one actually knows who slew either of these deities and may/will lay claim on the portfolios / power.
Zanan 12-14-07, 07:18 AM	... as fate would have it: Dragon 359 (September 2007) actually casts her power increase into stone. Seeking to expand her power on the Material Plane, Lolth managed to increase her status on several worlds via a prolonged silence, temporarily abandoning her worshippers and feeding her the resulting strife and chaos. Like a chrysalis-wrapped insect, she emerged stronger than ever on those worlds, possibly setting the stage for similar actions elsewhere throughout the Material Plane. (Dragon 359, p. (it had to be) 66)
AskaniPsion 12-14-07, 07:24 AM	I am hoping that 4E also starts including Drow Warlocks into her clergy as mentioned in "Drow of the Underdark". Some more drow psions would be nice too. I am hoping they also change her preferred clerical weapon to a whip instead of the dagger in FR. She has the whip in Core but I think it should be whip in both. I have a feeling she will be "THE" diety for Chaos in 4E. Are there going to be Drow versions of the Eladrin?
Alediran 12-14-07, 08:27 AM	Are there going to be Drow versions of the Eladrin? No, the Eladrin are there to replace the more magical surface elf races. The drow will have their own race.
Zanan 12-14-07, 10:54 AM	Why would the drow need something like the eladrin or another race. They are the drow ... that says it all. :evillaugh
AskaniPsion 12-15-07, 12:39 AM	So is the drow just going to be the elves with a slight adjustments like in 3.5 or will the race be dramatically different in game stats?
Lord Karsus 12-15-07, 01:05 AM	So is the drow just going to be the elves with a slight adjustments like in 3.5 or will the race be dramatically different in game stats? -I guess we'll find out.
Zireael 12-17-07, 02:34 AM	Oh, don't say the Fair Folk will vanish...:( Die $ED! Long Live Lloth And The Drow!
CassiusSchermont 12-17-07, 12:50 PM	From what I've seen, the Spellplague destroys arcane magic of those high level, unaffiliated wizards/sorcerers/bards. I believe that the weave will be held together by the gods and goddesses. Such as, bards will get their powers from Oghma. Wizards will get Necromancy from Velsharoon, Divination from another god, and etc. With Mystra's death, the gods grabbed pieces of the weave and are holding it together. Most likely this will lead gods such as Chauntea, Oghma, Shar, and Selune to become the major gods of magic. This being said, the drow will not suffer that greatly. When Mystra dies, there will be a momentary problem, when suddenly Gromphe will feel an even stronger tie to Lolth, as will the priestesses. Lolth will grab hold of part of the weave and bestow it upon her children. The drow will recieve their weave directly from her. Now does this mean that if your a bad drow mage, Lolth will take away your powers of arcane, I don't know. It is possible that in 4E, arcane magic and divine magic, though separate will be subject to the same rules. Such as, if you want it, worship me. Now total side note: It is not entirely guaranteed that Mystra will be gone forever. Bane came back because people still worshipped his portfolio and because he emplaced himself in Xvim. We are told that in the Realms, as long as a god is worshipped, they never truly die. Do not be surprised if a year to two years from now, Elminster will be sitting smoking his pipe when he sees Midnight appear before him. AND especially don't be surprised if Elminster becomes powerful enough to take her spot as deity.
Zanan 12-17-07, 01:49 PM	Gods don't die anyways. Their bodies float in the astral plane, mined by the githyanki, guarded by Anubis. And given proper worship and rituals, one can indeed resurrect deities. It has been done in the past, with demon lords and deities alike. That said, no-one is stopping the designers to give a cold shoulder to the old lore and make it impossible to resurrect Mystra (and other deities). Why? Well, it is their world and whatever strikes their fancy for 4E or the new Realms can be introduced as new, cast-into-stone canon. (BTW, the great financial crisis that struck world economy in the 1920s was something utterly "impossible", going by the business sciences up to that date. Afterwards, they struck up new theories and changed the rules a wee bit. So changing the Realms is perfectly within the limits of "developement". Which is not to say that we have to like it.)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-17-07, 02:14 PM	From what I've seen, the Spellplague destroys arcane magic of those high level, unaffiliated wizards/sorcerers/bards. I believe that the weave will be held together by the gods and goddesses. Well, the Grand History of the Realms does state explicitly that the Weave gets destroyed upon Mystra's death.
CassiusSchermont 12-17-07, 02:58 PM	True it does say that. I was just using the word "weave" for lack of better. I think the gods will control arcane magic individually. That was all I was driving at.
Lord Karsus 12-17-07, 04:18 PM	True it does say that. I was just using the word "weave" for lack of better. I think the gods will control arcane magic individually. That was all I was driving at. -So, what happens when you get an atheistic mage, or a mage who dispises the deities, and swears allegiance to none?
Zanan 12-18-07, 07:21 AM	Well, if they introduce something too fanciful with regard to spellcasting, I won't use it. But as was said before ... one first needs to know what this Spellplague stuff is all about anyways. Dunno if this Races and Classes book out this month says anything on arcane spellcasting. BTW, it's not that this whole Mystra murder stuff was exactly needed. As patroness of Magic and controller of the Weave, she was required to be impartial to all users anyway. The status has not much changed by having the plague happening. For essentially, we are talking about fluff, not crunch.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-18-07, 10:59 AM	Unfortunately, as Rich Baker said the developments about Mystra had to do with the perception some people had about her, and not want the objective truth about her was.
Zanan 12-18-07, 11:21 AM	Unfortunately, as Rich Baker said the developments about Mystra had to do with the perception some people had about her, and not want the objective truth about her was. So in essence, some spoilt few and halfwits* changed a setting's link to magic. Neat. *No insult intended. You see, essentially, they could say the same about us ...
Alediran 12-18-07, 12:06 PM	So in essence, some spoilt few and halfwits changed a setting's link to magic. Neat. QFT.
DM_Shonuff 12-19-07, 03:57 PM	THis is WotC, Spell plague will color code magic in the 5 magic colors. Red - Mountains. White- Plains Blue- Water Green - Forests Black - Swamps. Get out your magic cards. *snickers*
Lord Karsus 12-19-07, 04:08 PM	-Heh. M:tG is taking over D&D! -Magic: The Gathering MUST BE STOPPED! :)
AskaniPsion 12-19-07, 09:21 PM	THis is WotC, Spell plague will color code magic in the 5 magic colors. Red - Mountains. White- Plains Blue- Water Green - Forests Black - Swamps. Get out your magic cards. *snickers* Maybe it should be called the Spell Rainbow instead. :D
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-20-07, 02:58 PM	THis is WotC, Spell plague will color code magic in the 5 magic colors. Red - Mountains. White- Plains Blue- Water Green - Forests Black - Swamps. Get out your magic cards. *snickers* Are you serious?
Lord Karsus 12-20-07, 03:34 PM	Are you serious? -No, no, no. Don't worry. ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-20-07, 03:36 PM	-No, no, no. Don't worry. ;) Thanks. :) Although, seeing as I'm not fond of most of the other changes I've read about, perhaps I still should be worried.:)
DarkSongKnight 12-20-07, 03:54 PM	Are you serious? :rofl: I was going to ask the same thing! What a nightmare that would've been...
Gimric 12-28-07, 05:47 PM	:rofl: I was going to ask the same thing! What a nightmare that would've been... Hrmmmm... was worried that would happen when these guys first bought out TSR... it would be a very good tactical move to wait a few years then spring the new "Magic" on us RPGer's when our guard was down...
Stigger 12-28-07, 07:31 PM	Actually, I would wager that we are supposed to use cards to make it easier to tell what abilities we've used and what we have left... probably even color-coded to let us know at a glance what sort (per encounter/at will/per day) of stuff is available. *ducks and runs*
Lord Karsus 12-29-07, 01:14 AM	Actually, I would wager that we are supposed to use cards to make it easier to tell what abilities we've used and what we have left... probably even color-coded to let us know at a glance what sort (per encounter/at will/per day) of stuff is available. *ducks and runs* -What was it...There was a 2e setting that did use "cue cards", or something to that effect. Dark Sun, I think.
Stigger 12-29-07, 02:02 AM	No idea to be honest. Never actually used cards for games. Sure I bought the C:tD cards, but that was more for the artwork.
XHereticX 01-01-08, 07:47 PM	-Heh. M:tG is taking over D&D! -Magic: The Gathering MUST BE STOPPED! :) Hey, you just brought a though into my head. What if they turn MTG into a D&D campaign setting for 4th edition and make it the "core" setting, lol.
Lord Karsus 01-01-08, 08:23 PM	Hey, you just brought a though into my head. What if they turn MTG into a D&D campaign setting for 4th edition and make it the "core" setting, lol. -I'm sure that would make the Magic players very angry.
Anton_Vess 01-04-08, 04:22 PM	-I'm sure that would make the Magic players very angry. Yeah right, I've been wanting to use a Magic set as a Campaign setting forever, and 4ed looks like my best bet.
Lord Karsus 01-05-08, 12:32 AM	Yeah right, I've been wanting to use a Magic set as a Campaign setting forever, and 4ed looks like my best bet. -Well, if you've been wanting it for that long, why haven't you done any conversions? I'm sure adapting the story isn't that difficult.
Stigger 01-05-08, 02:40 AM	Eew... Santa Rosa... icky. :P Not that I live there or anything... nope, never that...
Zanan 01-05-08, 06:30 AM	How about minding the topic, for a change? :rolleyes:
XHereticX 01-05-08, 10:35 AM	I've been to Santa Rosa before, its quite nice there actually. Love the white sand Pacific beaches:D I predict there is going to be a mass drow exodus to Cormanthyr due to the weakening of drow magic (now harder for them to survive in the Underdark) and the now lack of Faezeress. The place is going to become ground zero.
Lord Karsus 01-05-08, 01:15 PM	How about minding the topic, for a change?:rolleyes: -We are, for a change. :rolleyes: -Discussion of 4e is invariably linked to Drow in 4e.
Zanan 01-08-08, 04:38 AM	-We are, for a change. :rolleyes: -Discussion of 4e is invariably linked to Drow in 4e. And in what way is Santa Rosa et al are linked to the drow and 4e?
ORC_Tao 01-08-08, 07:42 AM	Umm... how about them drow, huh? This has been a gentle nudge back on topic. Thank you for your consideration.
Rauric 01-08-08, 10:51 AM	I might have missed this but is there any news of the Drow near Shadowdale? Are they pused out of the forest? If so where did they go?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-08-08, 12:08 PM	I might have missed this but is there any news of the Drow near Shadowdale? Are they pused out of the forest? If so where did they go? There are drow near Shadowdale. As far as I know, they haven't been "pushed out" yet, and in my opinion they probably never will be (drow are supposed to be experts at keeping hidden, aren't they?).
Lord Karsus 01-08-08, 01:27 PM	And in what way is Santa Rosa et al are linked to the drow and 4e? -We were discussing M:tG, and it's impact on 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons, which Drow are invariably linked to.
18DELTA 01-09-08, 11:03 AM	There are drow near Shadowdale. As far as I know, they haven't been "pushed out" yet, and in my opinion they probably never will be (drow are supposed to be experts at keeping hidden, aren't they?). -Sneaky Drow, they are everywhere.:incog: :incog: Lord DELTA:fight!:
Zanan 01-09-08, 11:06 AM	-Sneaky Drow, they are everywhere.:incog: :incog: The Twisted Tower of Shadowdale was build by the drow and the harrassed Cormanthyr for ages from that location. Just in case ;)
18DELTA 01-09-08, 12:30 PM	The Twisted Tower of Shadowdale was build by the drow and the harrassed Cormanthyr for ages from that location. Just in case ;) -I know, Sneaky Drow are everywhere! :p: :cip: :D LORD DELTA :fight!:
ukplayerX 01-09-08, 01:24 PM	-Hopefully not. But, I've given up on caring, really, so they can do what they want. +1
Lord Karsus 01-10-08, 08:13 PM	+1 -Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?
18DELTA 01-11-08, 12:48 AM	-Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? -In your case it should be a good thing O' Mighty One!!!;) LORD DELTA:fight!: