Ioulaum and his plan. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ioulaum and his plan. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Liquid_Technique
02-12-08, 07:16 PM Ioulaum is one of the best and most powerful Arcanist ever if not the best (this can be debated) and for sure one of the most powerful magic users "alive". For this reason following is very important: Ioulaum isn't interested in magic any more! He's doing the psionics thing now, and in grand style I might add. The reason for this is not fully explained in the books but using simple logic it is very clear why. It seems that Ioulaum became dissillucioned with magic after the Fall of Netheril. He realized that in relying on Mystryl's Weave he was no different than the clerics who relied on divine power for their spells. Despite being a friend to the clergy of Mystra previous to Karsus' Folly, he may also have become disillusioned with her and her power. For this reason, he sought, and eventually discovered, a power source independent of the divine and the Weave both--psionics. Which is why he arranged to become an Elder Brain and so forth. This is why he hasn't gained wizard levels since the Fall--wizardry isn't his thing any more. He instead gained 20 levels of psion (included in his Elder Brain "template"). Once he's mastered his new form, he'll probably continue gaining more. Wait a few more centuries and he'll doubtless make a grand reentrance on the Faerunian scene with the first psionic mythallar (and perhaps an enclave of illithids to boot).

Ioulaum seems to think Psionics is the supreme form of Magic over both Arcane and Divine and I do agree with him. Afterall both Arcane and Divine magic rely on external power source while Psionics does not.
The Ubbergeek
02-12-08, 07:45 PM The idea of an increase in psionic presence and global power in the realms inthe new edition to come titiliates the nerd in me. Would not be unlogical, with all the chaos of the century.

Psychic terror Ioulaum and a psionic mythal.... nice idea.
Jiggawha
02-13-08, 07:40 AM IMO psionics, divine and arcane are essentially the same, the Weave and divine sources were just channels or filters of tapping that raw power. The difference is that arcane/divine have externally defined limitations and with psionics the only obstacle is you
Markustay
02-13-08, 01:09 PM The rules set Spell Law (originally an alternate modular magic system that could be ported into any other system but then later became part of the Rolemaster rules sytem) had magic broken into three distinst categories - Essence, Channeling, and Mentalism.

Essence is true magic, and involves manipulating the various forces of the Universe to create desired effects. Basically, by controlling the 'essence', you could control reality.

Channeling covered all forms of magic derived from an alternate source, such as a god, nature, or fiend. Unlike the other two, this required 'something else' to power the effects.

Mentalism was powered from within (the mind), and included all the usual sci-fi/fantasy mental powers.

All three were completely seperate from each other, and although some effects were similar, each had its own strengths ad weakneses. Also, magic progressed along logical paths, rather then just a chaotic system of picking random, unrelated spells out of a book.

Way ahead of its time, and still probably one of THE BEST alternatives to D&D I've ever used.

This is the main reason why I am loving what I'm hearing about 4e and "Power Sources" - it sounds very similar to the Rolemaster approach, right down to the skill trees for determining ailities.

Think about it - a mage who learns how to light a fire at first level and learns a few fire-based spells as he goes should be MUCH better at throwing fireballs then someone who just decides to take that one fire spell at 10th(?) level. Specialization starts to become more important then just leveling in a system like that, and allows a greater level of character customization, IMHO.

Iuolaum going for some sort of god-like existance, combining psionics with magical might, would be truly awesome.

And it has a D&D precedent - in Darksun the Dragondlords did just that to become demi-gods. ;)
Vulpes
02-14-08, 12:08 AM Jhaamdath already created psionic mythal/llar-like things: udoxias.

But anyway, I don't quite get the "bent on world domination" vibe from Iolaum. He seems more like his contemporary and countryman Larloch: interested in knowing things for the sake of knowing them; developing their mastery of might, either arcane or psionic, to the absolute pinnacle; constantly learning and challenging themselves. To that end, they both have extended their lives and their forms well beyond the norm, though through radically different paths, to keep studying. Both could have ruled the world long ago if they really cared to, but that's not their thing.

Also, technically, in 3/3.5 at least, isn't ALL magic in FR, divine, psionic or whatever, Weave-derived? While that may very well change in 4E, as of right now his developing psionics as a Weave-alternative doesn't make sense because it comes from the Weave, too. But I may be wrong; I'm a fluff, not a crunch, guy.
Senka
02-18-08, 08:34 AM Also, technically, in 3/3.5 at least, isn't ALL magic in FR, divine, psionic or whatever, Weave-derived? While that may very well change in 4E, as of right now his developing psionics as a Weave-alternative doesn't make sense because it comes from the Weave, too. But I may be wrong; I'm a fluff, not a crunch, guy.

No, psionics aren’t really magic at all and rely only on the manifester. Arcane or divine magic can also work without the Weave by using the Shadow Weave (but they you have to rely on Shar, which is probably going to be even worse then relying on Mystra, unless you doe exactly as she wants).
Alediran
02-18-08, 08:48 AM Worse even if you do what she wants. No light spells, weaker Evocations and Conjurations....

Meh, give me the power of the Weave.
MarkusTay63
02-18-08, 01:23 PM In 4e, Shar loses control of the Shadow Weave - that means it either should no longer exist (and GODS, I HOPE thats the case), or it has simply been re-absorbed into the Shadowfel, just as Weave magic has gone back into the Arcane Power Source (probably the Feywild).

That means, in 4e, you won't have to kiss Shar's magnificent @ss to use Shadow Magic, which is as it should be. I expect 'Agents' of Shar to get certain bonuses with it, but that should be as far as it goes.
Lord Karsus
02-19-08, 09:28 AM That means, in 4e, you won't have to kiss Shar's magnificent @ss to use Shadow Magic, which is as it should be.

-You currently don't need to do that either. Bardic, Talfiric Shadowmagic has been retconned to tap into the Shadow Weave, but users don't need to pay homage to Shar.
Ioulaum
02-19-08, 08:04 PM Ioulaum is one of the best and most powerful Arcanist ever if not the best (this can be debated) and for sure one of the most powerful magic users "alive". For this reason following is very important: Ioulaum isn't interested in magic any more! He's doing the psionics thing now, and in grand style I might add. The reason for this is not fully explained in the books but using simple logic it is very clear why. It seems that Ioulaum became dissillucioned with magic after the Fall of Netheril. He realized that in relying on Mystryl's Weave he was no different than the clerics who relied on divine power for their spells. Despite being a friend to the clergy of Mystra previous to Karsus' Folly, he may also have become disillusioned with her and her power. For this reason, he sought, and eventually discovered, a power source independent of the divine and the Weave both--psionics. Which is why he arranged to become an Elder Brain and so forth. This is why he hasn't gained wizard levels since the Fall--wizardry isn't his thing any more. He instead gained 20 levels of psion (included in his Elder Brain "template"). Once he's mastered his new form, he'll probably continue gaining more. Wait a few more centuries and he'll doubtless make a grand reentrance on the Faerunian scene with the first psionic mythallar (and perhaps an enclave of illithids to boot).

Ioulaum seems to think Psionics is the supreme form of Magic over both Arcane and Divine and I do agree with him. Afterall both Arcane and Divine magic rely on external power source while Psionics does not.

Just want to point out that in all the perviously release info. The BRAIN has been depicted as Worshipper of Mystryl, unlike other Arcanist. His enclave had the largest temple of Mystryl. None of current info release has ever shown Ioulaum having turning his back on magic or its current goddess.
The_Shaman
02-20-08, 04:22 PM And there you have it by the mouth of the brain himself. That should settle it, no?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-20-08, 08:13 PM ...But he's a brain. That's yucky.
Lord Karsus
02-21-08, 11:08 AM ...But he's a brain. That's yucky.

-An undead, rotting brain in a pool of stale brine. That's even worse.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-21-08, 12:02 PM -An undead, rotting brain in a pool of stale brine. That's even worse.

Yes, it probably smells.
Lord Karsus
02-21-08, 12:17 PM -A combination of mold, mildew, rotting meat, and pickles. :yuck:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-21-08, 12:25 PM -A combination of mold, mildew, rotting meat, and pickles. :yuck:

:yuck:

I think brains should generally stay inside of skulls...
Lord Karsus
02-21-08, 12:33 PM I think brains should generally stay inside of skulls...

-Most people tend to agree. ;)
Ioulaum
02-21-08, 03:21 PM -An undead, rotting brain in a pool of stale brine. That's even worse.

Rotting? who is rotting here :mad:

At least i got tentacles to work with unlike certain someone who is hostinga open house the giths inside his nostril in Astral :P
Lord Karsus
02-21-08, 04:03 PM Rotting? who is rotting here :mad:

At least i got tentacles to work with unlike certain someone who is hostinga open house the giths inside his nostril in Astral :P

-Let's not forget that those Giths hunt Illithid, buddy. For fun.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-21-08, 06:21 PM -Let's not forget that those Giths hunt Illithid, buddy. For fun.

And profit!
Lord Karsus
02-21-08, 06:52 PM -And profit! So, there! :P
Ioulaum
02-21-08, 07:36 PM -Let's not forget that those Giths hunt Illithid, buddy. For fun.

Well lucky i am not a Illthid :cool:

Since we are in discussion, Karusu, you still owe that nether scroll you brorrow but never return :ahem:
Lord Karsus
02-21-08, 07:47 PM Well lucky i am not a Illthid :cool:

-You are made up of Illithid, so close enough.

Since we are in discussion, Karusu, you still owe that nether scroll you brorrow but never return :ahem:

-I sent that back to you ages ago. Did the Masked One take it?
MarkusTay63
02-21-08, 11:43 PM Actually, if I remember my Netherese history correctly, they never even arrived at Karsus' Enclave.

I think that must have been one of the False Imaskarkana Karsus borrowed. :P
Lord Karsus
02-21-08, 11:57 PM I think that must have been one of the False Imaskarkana Karsus borrowed. :P

-You mean the Imaskari sex toy that KtM has? I'll just say this: I'll never look at demiplanes the same way again...:blink:
MarkusTay63
02-22-08, 12:00 AM Yup - the one with the Zhent Tickler attached. :P

I guess thats the first time you ever had multiple universes. ;)
Lord Karsus
02-22-08, 12:05 AM Yup - the one with the Zhent Tickler attached. :P

-Was that what that was? I don't know. I try to stay out of KtM's "workroom".

I guess thats the first time you ever had multiple universes. ;)

-That innuendo = Fail. :nonono:
MarkusTay63
02-22-08, 12:20 AM Well, I was going to say that it was the first time anyone got into your Far Realms, but I have to much class for that one... :cool:
Lord Karsus
02-22-08, 12:24 AM Well, I was going to say that it was the first time anyone got into your Far Realms, but I have to much class for that one... :cool:

-KtM told me that, while equipped with said item, his Erupt (Serpent Kingdoms) was empowered, quickened and twinned.

-How am I doing, Rino? :P
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-22-08, 05:13 PM -How am I doing, Rino? :P

I LOVE it!

Markus, Karsus has his Konsort (yours truly), so he is hardly...lacking.;)
Lord Karsus
02-22-08, 06:38 PM -Yeah.
The_Shaman
02-26-08, 12:56 PM You get a few archmages together, and in no time they start comparing their prowess. Must be some kind of procreation strategy - the more arcane you look, the higher your chances are ;) Though I have to say... procreation can get really confusing when multiple dimensions and epic spells are involved.
Lord Karsus
02-26-08, 01:41 PM You get a few archmages together, and in no time they start comparing their prowess. Must be some kind of procreation strategy - the more arcane you look, the higher your chances are ;) Though I have to say... procreation can get really confusing when multiple dimensions and epic spells are involved.

-It's a doozy, let me tell you. ;)
Vulpes
02-26-08, 11:17 PM You get a few archmages together, and in no time they start comparing their prowess. Must be some kind of procreation strategy - the more arcane you look, the higher your chances are ;) Though I have to say... procreation can get really confusing when multiple dimensions and epic spells are involved.

Well, you know us boys: always quick to grab the tape measure to prove whose is bigger! (Or maybe that's just me. *LOL*)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Liquid_Technique 02-12-08, 07:16 PM	Ioulaum is one of the best and most powerful Arcanist ever if not the best (this can be debated) and for sure one of the most powerful magic users "alive". For this reason following is very important: Ioulaum isn't interested in magic any more! He's doing the psionics thing now, and in grand style I might add. The reason for this is not fully explained in the books but using simple logic it is very clear why. It seems that Ioulaum became dissillucioned with magic after the Fall of Netheril. He realized that in relying on Mystryl's Weave he was no different than the clerics who relied on divine power for their spells. Despite being a friend to the clergy of Mystra previous to Karsus' Folly, he may also have become disillusioned with her and her power. For this reason, he sought, and eventually discovered, a power source independent of the divine and the Weave both--psionics. Which is why he arranged to become an Elder Brain and so forth. This is why he hasn't gained wizard levels since the Fall--wizardry isn't his thing any more. He instead gained 20 levels of psion (included in his Elder Brain "template"). Once he's mastered his new form, he'll probably continue gaining more. Wait a few more centuries and he'll doubtless make a grand reentrance on the Faerunian scene with the first psionic mythallar (and perhaps an enclave of illithids to boot). Ioulaum seems to think Psionics is the supreme form of Magic over both Arcane and Divine and I do agree with him. Afterall both Arcane and Divine magic rely on external power source while Psionics does not.
The Ubbergeek 02-12-08, 07:45 PM	The idea of an increase in psionic presence and global power in the realms inthe new edition to come titiliates the nerd in me. Would not be unlogical, with all the chaos of the century. Psychic terror Ioulaum and a psionic mythal.... nice idea.
Jiggawha 02-13-08, 07:40 AM	IMO psionics, divine and arcane are essentially the same, the Weave and divine sources were just channels or filters of tapping that raw power. The difference is that arcane/divine have externally defined limitations and with psionics the only obstacle is you
Markustay 02-13-08, 01:09 PM	The rules set Spell Law (originally an alternate modular magic system that could be ported into any other system but then later became part of the Rolemaster rules sytem) had magic broken into three distinst categories - Essence, Channeling, and Mentalism. Essence is true magic, and involves manipulating the various forces of the Universe to create desired effects. Basically, by controlling the 'essence', you could control reality. Channeling covered all forms of magic derived from an alternate source, such as a god, nature, or fiend. Unlike the other two, this required 'something else' to power the effects. Mentalism was powered from within (the mind), and included all the usual sci-fi/fantasy mental powers. All three were completely seperate from each other, and although some effects were similar, each had its own strengths ad weakneses. Also, magic progressed along logical paths, rather then just a chaotic system of picking random, unrelated spells out of a book. Way ahead of its time, and still probably one of THE BEST alternatives to D&D I've ever used. This is the main reason why I am loving what I'm hearing about 4e and "Power Sources" - it sounds very similar to the Rolemaster approach, right down to the skill trees for determining ailities. Think about it - a mage who learns how to light a fire at first level and learns a few fire-based spells as he goes should be MUCH better at throwing fireballs then someone who just decides to take that one fire spell at 10th(?) level. Specialization starts to become more important then just leveling in a system like that, and allows a greater level of character customization, IMHO. Iuolaum going for some sort of god-like existance, combining psionics with magical might, would be truly awesome. And it has a D&D precedent - in Darksun the Dragondlords did just that to become demi-gods. ;)
Vulpes 02-14-08, 12:08 AM	Jhaamdath already created psionic mythal/llar-like things: udoxias. But anyway, I don't quite get the "bent on world domination" vibe from Iolaum. He seems more like his contemporary and countryman Larloch: interested in knowing things for the sake of knowing them; developing their mastery of might, either arcane or psionic, to the absolute pinnacle; constantly learning and challenging themselves. To that end, they both have extended their lives and their forms well beyond the norm, though through radically different paths, to keep studying. Both could have ruled the world long ago if they really cared to, but that's not their thing. Also, technically, in 3/3.5 at least, isn't ALL magic in FR, divine, psionic or whatever, Weave-derived? While that may very well change in 4E, as of right now his developing psionics as a Weave-alternative doesn't make sense because it comes from the Weave, too. But I may be wrong; I'm a fluff, not a crunch, guy.
Senka 02-18-08, 08:34 AM	Also, technically, in 3/3.5 at least, isn't ALL magic in FR, divine, psionic or whatever, Weave-derived? While that may very well change in 4E, as of right now his developing psionics as a Weave-alternative doesn't make sense because it comes from the Weave, too. But I may be wrong; I'm a fluff, not a crunch, guy. No, psionics aren’t really magic at all and rely only on the manifester. Arcane or divine magic can also work without the Weave by using the Shadow Weave (but they you have to rely on Shar, which is probably going to be even worse then relying on Mystra, unless you doe exactly as she wants).
Alediran 02-18-08, 08:48 AM	Worse even if you do what she wants. No light spells, weaker Evocations and Conjurations.... Meh, give me the power of the Weave.
MarkusTay63 02-18-08, 01:23 PM	In 4e, Shar loses control of the Shadow Weave - that means it either should no longer exist (and GODS, I HOPE thats the case), or it has simply been re-absorbed into the Shadowfel, just as Weave magic has gone back into the Arcane Power Source (probably the Feywild). That means, in 4e, you won't have to kiss Shar's magnificent @ss to use Shadow Magic, which is as it should be. I expect 'Agents' of Shar to get certain bonuses with it, but that should be as far as it goes.
Lord Karsus 02-19-08, 09:28 AM	That means, in 4e, you won't have to kiss Shar's magnificent @ss to use Shadow Magic, which is as it should be. -You currently don't need to do that either. Bardic, Talfiric Shadowmagic has been retconned to tap into the Shadow Weave, but users don't need to pay homage to Shar.
Ioulaum 02-19-08, 08:04 PM	Ioulaum is one of the best and most powerful Arcanist ever if not the best (this can be debated) and for sure one of the most powerful magic users "alive". For this reason following is very important: Ioulaum isn't interested in magic any more! He's doing the psionics thing now, and in grand style I might add. The reason for this is not fully explained in the books but using simple logic it is very clear why. It seems that Ioulaum became dissillucioned with magic after the Fall of Netheril. He realized that in relying on Mystryl's Weave he was no different than the clerics who relied on divine power for their spells. Despite being a friend to the clergy of Mystra previous to Karsus' Folly, he may also have become disillusioned with her and her power. For this reason, he sought, and eventually discovered, a power source independent of the divine and the Weave both--psionics. Which is why he arranged to become an Elder Brain and so forth. This is why he hasn't gained wizard levels since the Fall--wizardry isn't his thing any more. He instead gained 20 levels of psion (included in his Elder Brain "template"). Once he's mastered his new form, he'll probably continue gaining more. Wait a few more centuries and he'll doubtless make a grand reentrance on the Faerunian scene with the first psionic mythallar (and perhaps an enclave of illithids to boot). Ioulaum seems to think Psionics is the supreme form of Magic over both Arcane and Divine and I do agree with him. Afterall both Arcane and Divine magic rely on external power source while Psionics does not. Just want to point out that in all the perviously release info. The BRAIN has been depicted as Worshipper of Mystryl, unlike other Arcanist. His enclave had the largest temple of Mystryl. None of current info release has ever shown Ioulaum having turning his back on magic or its current goddess.
The_Shaman 02-20-08, 04:22 PM	And there you have it by the mouth of the brain himself. That should settle it, no?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-20-08, 08:13 PM	...But he's a brain. That's yucky.
Lord Karsus 02-21-08, 11:08 AM	...But he's a brain. That's yucky. -An undead, rotting brain in a pool of stale brine. That's even worse.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-21-08, 12:02 PM	-An undead, rotting brain in a pool of stale brine. That's even worse. Yes, it probably smells.
Lord Karsus 02-21-08, 12:17 PM	-A combination of mold, mildew, rotting meat, and pickles. :yuck:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-21-08, 12:25 PM	-A combination of mold, mildew, rotting meat, and pickles. :yuck: :yuck: I think brains should generally stay inside of skulls...
Lord Karsus 02-21-08, 12:33 PM	I think brains should generally stay inside of skulls... -Most people tend to agree. ;)
Ioulaum 02-21-08, 03:21 PM	-An undead, rotting brain in a pool of stale brine. That's even worse. Rotting? who is rotting here :mad: At least i got tentacles to work with unlike certain someone who is hostinga open house the giths inside his nostril in Astral :P
Lord Karsus 02-21-08, 04:03 PM	Rotting? who is rotting here :mad: At least i got tentacles to work with unlike certain someone who is hostinga open house the giths inside his nostril in Astral :P -Let's not forget that those Giths hunt Illithid, buddy. For fun.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-21-08, 06:21 PM	-Let's not forget that those Giths hunt Illithid, buddy. For fun. And profit!
Lord Karsus 02-21-08, 06:52 PM	-And profit! So, there! :P
Ioulaum 02-21-08, 07:36 PM	-Let's not forget that those Giths hunt Illithid, buddy. For fun. Well lucky i am not a Illthid :cool: Since we are in discussion, Karusu, you still owe that nether scroll you brorrow but never return :ahem:
Lord Karsus 02-21-08, 07:47 PM	Well lucky i am not a Illthid :cool: -You are made up of Illithid, so close enough. Since we are in discussion, Karusu, you still owe that nether scroll you brorrow but never return :ahem: -I sent that back to you ages ago. Did the Masked One take it?
MarkusTay63 02-21-08, 11:43 PM	Actually, if I remember my Netherese history correctly, they never even arrived at Karsus' Enclave. I think that must have been one of the False Imaskarkana Karsus borrowed. :P
Lord Karsus 02-21-08, 11:57 PM	I think that must have been one of the False Imaskarkana Karsus borrowed. :P -You mean the Imaskari sex toy that KtM has? I'll just say this: I'll never look at demiplanes the same way again...:blink:
MarkusTay63 02-22-08, 12:00 AM	Yup - the one with the Zhent Tickler attached. :P I guess thats the first time you ever had multiple universes. ;)
Lord Karsus 02-22-08, 12:05 AM	Yup - the one with the Zhent Tickler attached. :P -Was that what that was? I don't know. I try to stay out of KtM's "workroom". I guess thats the first time you ever had multiple universes. ;) -That innuendo = Fail. :nonono:
MarkusTay63 02-22-08, 12:20 AM	Well, I was going to say that it was the first time anyone got into your Far Realms, but I have to much class for that one... :cool:
Lord Karsus 02-22-08, 12:24 AM	Well, I was going to say that it was the first time anyone got into your Far Realms, but I have to much class for that one... :cool: -KtM told me that, while equipped with said item, his Erupt (Serpent Kingdoms) was empowered, quickened and twinned. -How am I doing, Rino? :P
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-22-08, 05:13 PM	-How am I doing, Rino? :P I LOVE it! Markus, Karsus has his Konsort (yours truly), so he is hardly...lacking.;)
Lord Karsus 02-22-08, 06:38 PM	-Yeah.
The_Shaman 02-26-08, 12:56 PM	You get a few archmages together, and in no time they start comparing their prowess. Must be some kind of procreation strategy - the more arcane you look, the higher your chances are ;) Though I have to say... procreation can get really confusing when multiple dimensions and epic spells are involved.
Lord Karsus 02-26-08, 01:41 PM	You get a few archmages together, and in no time they start comparing their prowess. Must be some kind of procreation strategy - the more arcane you look, the higher your chances are ;) Though I have to say... procreation can get really confusing when multiple dimensions and epic spells are involved. -It's a doozy, let me tell you. ;)
Vulpes 02-26-08, 11:17 PM	You get a few archmages together, and in no time they start comparing their prowess. Must be some kind of procreation strategy - the more arcane you look, the higher your chances are ;) Though I have to say... procreation can get really confusing when multiple dimensions and epic spells are involved. Well, you know us boys: always quick to grab the tape measure to prove whose is bigger! (Or maybe that's just me. LOL)