Is Halaster Dead? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is Halaster Dead? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Uthred
08-26-07, 11:18 AM I was considering picking up Expedition to Undermountain and while flicking through it I noticed that the basic setup seems to revolve around the death of Halaster. So is this correct or is it some convoluted ploy and if correct is it considered canon ?
Derren S.
08-26-07, 11:37 AM Halastar as a person is more or less dead. But like most super powerful mages he too has a way to stay alive after his body died (Even if he probably didn't plan for this). And yes, that is canon.

Apparently he tried to prevent something called Spellplague which will be the 3.5 Ed -> 4 Ed transition RSE and failed.
Old Sage
08-26-07, 11:48 AM Halaster's fate as of Expedition to Undermountain is considered Realms canon. Rich Baker confirmed a short while back that it'll also be noted in the upcoming Grand History of the Realms release.
Lord Karsus
08-27-07, 03:32 PM Halaster's fate as of Expedition to Undermountain is considered Realms canon. Rich Baker confirmed a short while back that it'll also be noted in the upcoming Grand History of the Realms release.

-Yeah, unfortunatley. I tried convincing everyone that Halaster was not dead, on a technicality, since Expedition to Undermountain is a D&D Core product, and does not tie in to Realmslore. But, then he noted that it would be included.

-At first, I was a lot angrier that Halaster kicked the bucket. But, with all of the talk of this Spellplague, and Halaster dying trying to prevent it and what not, it certainly has piqued my interest, and has made his death a lot more interesting, and understandable.
Derren S.
08-28-07, 03:44 AM So does Halastar trying to prevent the 4Ed transition RSE make him a 4Ed hater?
He probably feared that 4Ed would make him (wizards) weaker ;)
Lord Karsus
08-28-07, 04:18 PM So does Halastar trying to prevent the 4Ed transition RSE make him a 4Ed hater?

-Very philosophical.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
08-29-07, 08:39 PM And very funny, when you look at it from that point of view. :rofl:
godbeepit
08-29-07, 10:57 PM Halaster probably used all his divination spells and saw that the future was full of nerfed wizards and realized he would need at least 30 more levels to keep Undermountain in check. He then decided that it would be easier to fight Rich Baker.
Lord Karsus
08-30-07, 01:28 AM He then decided that it would be easier to fight Rich Baker.

-I guess he lost...
Zireael
08-30-07, 09:51 AM Oh Lloth, Halaster and Elminster got killed ... :mad: :mad:
dragonheart
09-01-07, 12:07 PM no Elminster is still around - healing up a bit from a sharan trap but soon to be back. so far we have lost 3 major NPCs - Halaster, Khelben and Sylune. who is next before 4.0?
Lord Karsus
09-01-07, 09:19 PM so far we have lost 3 major NPCs - Halaster, Khelben and Sylune. who is next before 4.0?

-Including Khelben on that list is kind of a misnomer. His death, unlike those of Sylune and Halaster, had nothing to do with the 4e transition (that we currently know of, anyway, though I don't believe that Schend ever intended that). Khelben's death was also fated, whereas the deaths of the other two was kind of sudden.
dragonheart
09-01-07, 10:08 PM sorry for the confusion LK I wasn't trying to suggest that the deaths were all 4.0 related just that they had happened all in the last year - both game and real time; and that more were/seem to be expected in the next year leading into 4.0.
The WarOverlord
09-02-07, 01:12 AM I was considering picking up Expedition to Undermountain and while flicking through it I noticed that the basic setup seems to revolve around the death of Halaster. So is this correct or is it some convoluted ploy and if correct is it considered canon ?

Undermountain IS "Halaster" and his consiousnes is what alters and maintains the "ultimate Maze" though there are usually a few Clones or Siriculims? of hm managing some part of it or going about general business around the various Planes of Existance. Halaster also has lifelike magical projections that attack and react (or not) to various conditions (Like programmed robots) throughout his "home plane" of Undermountain

Is the Actual real honest to goodness Halaster Dead? Considering how old Undermountain is and how many "spare bodies" he has who can say that the "real" Halaster isn't long gone and it was one of his many Clones, siriculims? or "lifelike Projections" of him that was involved in trying to stop the "Spellplauge" while all the other "Hims" go about there busnises

Primary Question, Did Undermountain fall apart like how those magically built castles and the like falls apart when their Creator is Slain?

If Undermountain still stands then at least 1 Halaster exists.
MarkHall
09-02-07, 01:54 AM Something I considered doing (before he so inconsiderately died on me) was having Halaster taken by the Dark Powers, into Ravenloft, with Undermountain as his Domain. Constant, small, changes that he didn't make happening all over the place.
captaincarot
09-02-07, 03:40 AM Is the Actual real honest to goodness Halaster Dead?

we know he's not his soul has been shattered in to loads of pieces and spread out through an equally huge number of people

this just means he's hiding from the plague and once it's over either

he will put himself back together, or

an adventure will be made, where you get to collect all of the bits of the jigsaw of his soul and then stick it back in a body which he has conviniently left in an untill now never before discovered room some where deep in the bowels of undermountain, on the up side this will stop the mythal from failing which holds up the roof of the caverns under waterdeep

that last paragraph was of course pure conjecture on my part and any similarity to future modules will be purely coincidental and an absolute fluke.

wooohooooo!
cool i got a spoiler thingy to work :cool:
Lord Karsus
09-03-07, 05:47 PM an adventure will be made, where you get to collect all of the bits of the jigsaw of his soul and then stick it back in a body which he has conviniently left in an untill now never before discovered room some where deep in the bowels of undermountain, on the up side this will stop the mythal from failing which holds up the roof of the caverns under waterdeep

-Now, who'd want to do that? Seriously...Think about it. Restore a wizard who is as mad as he is powerful (Remember, few know that he was cured of his madness)? I wouldn't want to be responsible for anything that came of that.

sorry for the confusion LK I wasn't trying to suggest that the deaths were all 4.0 related just that they had happened all in the last year - both game and real time; and that more were/seem to be expected in the next year leading into 4.0.

-No, no, I understand. It's just that, unlike Elminster and Halaster, Khelben's death was well thought out, and, I actually support it.
Lady_K
09-03-07, 08:12 PM Something I considered doing (before he so inconsiderately died on me) was having Halaster taken by the Dark Powers, into Ravenloft, with Undermountain as his Domain. Constant, small, changes that he didn't make happening all over the place.That sounds particularly intriguing. What would be Halaster's one defining trait as a Dark Lord though? Why was he brought into Ravenloft? What heinous act has he committed that would warrant such punishment by the Dark Powers?

-No, no, I understand. It's just that, unlike Elminster and Halaster, Khelben's death was well thought out, and, I actually support it.Wait...

Now, I haven't read the "Shadowdale" module yet, but from what I've been hearing, Elminster has just disappeared. He's not dead.
Lord Karsus
09-03-07, 11:49 PM Wait...

Now, I haven't read the "Shadowdale" module yet, but from what I've been hearing, Elminster has just disappeared. He's not dead.

-I haven't read the module either, but I meant to type Sylūne, not Elminster. Thanks for pointing that out.
Lady_K
09-04-07, 01:11 AM That explains that. ;)

I'm disappointed enough with both Blackstaff and Sylūne's deaths - I really didn't want to add another to the list.
Old Sage
09-04-07, 09:26 AM That sounds particularly intriguing. What would be Halaster's one defining trait as a Dark Lord though? Why was he brought into Ravenloft? What heinous act has he committed that would warrant such punishment by the Dark Powers?Perhaps Halaster was intrigued by the concept of the Dark Powers, and turned the tables on the traditional "being carried away by the Mists" to Ravenloft. Halaster "broke" into the Demiplane of Dread where he intends to study just what the Dark Powers are, and just what their relationship to Ravenloft is. The Mad Mage is likely wild enough to want to try something like this!

Wait...

Now, I haven't read the "Shadowdale" module yet, but from what I've been hearing, Elminster has just disappeared. He's not dead.Elminster's "fate" is covered in the first chapter, as I recall.
MarkHall
09-04-07, 10:53 AM That sounds particularly intriguing. What would be Halaster's one defining trait as a Dark Lord though? Why was he brought into Ravenloft? What heinous act has he committed that would warrant such punishment by the Dark Powers?

I hashed it out with someone, but I can't recall what I came up with.
Lord Karsus
09-04-07, 02:30 PM I'm disappointed enough with both Blackstaff and Sylūne's deaths - I really didn't want to add another to the list.

-What left you lacking concerning Khelben's death? Personally, I found the entire situation very well done. Perhaps, as MT can attest to, I was a little disappointed of the lack of "Elvenness" that the returned City of Hope displayed.
captaincarot
09-07-07, 01:42 PM -Now, who'd want to do that? Seriously...Think about it. Restore a wizard who is as mad as he is powerful (Remember, few know that he was cured of his madness)? I wouldn't want to be responsible for anything that came of that.

some one who knew that the only way to stop the mythal that holds up the roof of the caverns under waterdeep was to do the afore said task. because mr h had some vital piece of knowledge required to stop it collapsing
and because he's not dead but his soul is shattered and scattered to the 4 winds you can't speak with dead to get the knowledge off him.

the results of failure being thousands of dead people the city being wiped out both above and below and a nice new lake to fish in.

personally i'd have it that tremmors are felt in waterdeep, while bits of rock begin to fall from the cieling below.
bit of scrying some divinations, bit of investigation then your party are into a do or lots of people die scenario, you could get just about any good group of charachters to do it for the being good bit, and the lords to pay some evil ones a fortune to do it other wise.
MarkHall
09-07-07, 04:22 PM Before the Mythal under Waterdeep was common knowledge (it might have been mentioned in the City of Splendors boxed set, but it wasn't in FR1), I had Halaster taken by the Mists of Ravenloft, along with most of Undermountain. The caverns might have supported it, but some Talosians decided to cast a few Earthquake spells at Waterdeep.

My characters got to run into a destroyed Waterdeep, trying to rescue people and things from the city. That is, until they set off a fuel-air bomb that set fire to a large portion of the city...
MarkusTay63
09-07-07, 04:43 PM -What left you lacking concerning Khelben's death? Personally, I found the entire situation very well done. Perhaps, as MT can attest to, I was a little disappointed of the lack of "Elvenness" that the returned City of Hope displayed.True that. :(

However, I will have to disagree with you on the relevance of Khelben's death with 4e. In the story, it was fortold and what-not, but that doesn't mean the idea wasn't thought-up a year ago (or whatever). They've known about 4e for TWO YEARS! I'm sure Schend wrote the novel with that in mind.

What we know is that there will be major political changes in 4e, as well as changes to magic. So you DON'T see any relevance of a NEW POWERFUL city with MAJOR magical prowess having anything to do with the changes? :confused:

The war in Thay, Undermountain, Blackstaff, the Tearing of the Weave... it's all part of some great RSE that they've been sneaking up on us for TWO YEARS - one that will make the ToT look like a walk in the park. :raincloud
godbeepit
09-08-07, 12:22 AM Wait... I thought the Time of Troubles was a walk in the park??:confused: I mean, what else are gods gonna be doing on Toril? I mean, whether its a park of dead babies for Bane or a park of prancing faeries and elven drag is beside the point.:eek:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Uthred 08-26-07, 11:18 AM	I was considering picking up Expedition to Undermountain and while flicking through it I noticed that the basic setup seems to revolve around the death of Halaster. So is this correct or is it some convoluted ploy and if correct is it considered canon ?
Derren S. 08-26-07, 11:37 AM	Halastar as a person is more or less dead. But like most super powerful mages he too has a way to stay alive after his body died (Even if he probably didn't plan for this). And yes, that is canon. Apparently he tried to prevent something called Spellplague which will be the 3.5 Ed -> 4 Ed transition RSE and failed.
Old Sage 08-26-07, 11:48 AM	Halaster's fate as of Expedition to Undermountain is considered Realms canon. Rich Baker confirmed a short while back that it'll also be noted in the upcoming Grand History of the Realms release.
Lord Karsus 08-27-07, 03:32 PM	Halaster's fate as of Expedition to Undermountain is considered Realms canon. Rich Baker confirmed a short while back that it'll also be noted in the upcoming Grand History of the Realms release. -Yeah, unfortunatley. I tried convincing everyone that Halaster was not dead, on a technicality, since Expedition to Undermountain is a D&D Core product, and does not tie in to Realmslore. But, then he noted that it would be included. -At first, I was a lot angrier that Halaster kicked the bucket. But, with all of the talk of this Spellplague, and Halaster dying trying to prevent it and what not, it certainly has piqued my interest, and has made his death a lot more interesting, and understandable.
Derren S. 08-28-07, 03:44 AM	So does Halastar trying to prevent the 4Ed transition RSE make him a 4Ed hater? He probably feared that 4Ed would make him (wizards) weaker ;)
Lord Karsus 08-28-07, 04:18 PM	So does Halastar trying to prevent the 4Ed transition RSE make him a 4Ed hater? -Very philosophical.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 08-29-07, 08:39 PM	And very funny, when you look at it from that point of view. :rofl:
godbeepit 08-29-07, 10:57 PM	Halaster probably used all his divination spells and saw that the future was full of nerfed wizards and realized he would need at least 30 more levels to keep Undermountain in check. He then decided that it would be easier to fight Rich Baker.
Lord Karsus 08-30-07, 01:28 AM	He then decided that it would be easier to fight Rich Baker. -I guess he lost...
Zireael 08-30-07, 09:51 AM	Oh Lloth, Halaster and Elminster got killed ... :mad: :mad:
dragonheart 09-01-07, 12:07 PM	no Elminster is still around - healing up a bit from a sharan trap but soon to be back. so far we have lost 3 major NPCs - Halaster, Khelben and Sylune. who is next before 4.0?
Lord Karsus 09-01-07, 09:19 PM	so far we have lost 3 major NPCs - Halaster, Khelben and Sylune. who is next before 4.0? -Including Khelben on that list is kind of a misnomer. His death, unlike those of Sylune and Halaster, had nothing to do with the 4e transition (that we currently know of, anyway, though I don't believe that Schend ever intended that). Khelben's death was also fated, whereas the deaths of the other two was kind of sudden.
dragonheart 09-01-07, 10:08 PM	sorry for the confusion LK I wasn't trying to suggest that the deaths were all 4.0 related just that they had happened all in the last year - both game and real time; and that more were/seem to be expected in the next year leading into 4.0.
The WarOverlord 09-02-07, 01:12 AM	I was considering picking up Expedition to Undermountain and while flicking through it I noticed that the basic setup seems to revolve around the death of Halaster. So is this correct or is it some convoluted ploy and if correct is it considered canon ? Undermountain IS "Halaster" and his consiousnes is what alters and maintains the "ultimate Maze" though there are usually a few Clones or Siriculims? of hm managing some part of it or going about general business around the various Planes of Existance. Halaster also has lifelike magical projections that attack and react (or not) to various conditions (Like programmed robots) throughout his "home plane" of Undermountain Is the Actual real honest to goodness Halaster Dead? Considering how old Undermountain is and how many "spare bodies" he has who can say that the "real" Halaster isn't long gone and it was one of his many Clones, siriculims? or "lifelike Projections" of him that was involved in trying to stop the "Spellplauge" while all the other "Hims" go about there busnises Primary Question, Did Undermountain fall apart like how those magically built castles and the like falls apart when their Creator is Slain? If Undermountain still stands then at least 1 Halaster exists.
MarkHall 09-02-07, 01:54 AM	Something I considered doing (before he so inconsiderately died on me) was having Halaster taken by the Dark Powers, into Ravenloft, with Undermountain as his Domain. Constant, small, changes that he didn't make happening all over the place.
captaincarot 09-02-07, 03:40 AM	Is the Actual real honest to goodness Halaster Dead? we know he's not his soul has been shattered in to loads of pieces and spread out through an equally huge number of people this just means he's hiding from the plague and once it's over either he will put himself back together, or an adventure will be made, where you get to collect all of the bits of the jigsaw of his soul and then stick it back in a body which he has conviniently left in an untill now never before discovered room some where deep in the bowels of undermountain, on the up side this will stop the mythal from failing which holds up the roof of the caverns under waterdeep that last paragraph was of course pure conjecture on my part and any similarity to future modules will be purely coincidental and an absolute fluke. wooohooooo! cool i got a spoiler thingy to work :cool:
Lord Karsus 09-03-07, 05:47 PM	an adventure will be made, where you get to collect all of the bits of the jigsaw of his soul and then stick it back in a body which he has conviniently left in an untill now never before discovered room some where deep in the bowels of undermountain, on the up side this will stop the mythal from failing which holds up the roof of the caverns under waterdeep -Now, who'd want to do that? Seriously...Think about it. Restore a wizard who is as mad as he is powerful (Remember, few know that he was cured of his madness)? I wouldn't want to be responsible for anything that came of that. sorry for the confusion LK I wasn't trying to suggest that the deaths were all 4.0 related just that they had happened all in the last year - both game and real time; and that more were/seem to be expected in the next year leading into 4.0. -No, no, I understand. It's just that, unlike Elminster and Halaster, Khelben's death was well thought out, and, I actually support it.
Lady_K 09-03-07, 08:12 PM	Something I considered doing (before he so inconsiderately died on me) was having Halaster taken by the Dark Powers, into Ravenloft, with Undermountain as his Domain. Constant, small, changes that he didn't make happening all over the place.That sounds particularly intriguing. What would be Halaster's one defining trait as a Dark Lord though? Why was he brought into Ravenloft? What heinous act has he committed that would warrant such punishment by the Dark Powers? -No, no, I understand. It's just that, unlike Elminster and Halaster, Khelben's death was well thought out, and, I actually support it.Wait... Now, I haven't read the "Shadowdale" module yet, but from what I've been hearing, Elminster has just disappeared. He's not dead.
Lord Karsus 09-03-07, 11:49 PM	Wait... Now, I haven't read the "Shadowdale" module yet, but from what I've been hearing, Elminster has just disappeared. He's not dead. -I haven't read the module either, but I meant to type Sylūne, not Elminster. Thanks for pointing that out.
Lady_K 09-04-07, 01:11 AM	That explains that. ;) I'm disappointed enough with both Blackstaff and Sylūne's deaths - I really didn't want to add another to the list.
Old Sage 09-04-07, 09:26 AM	That sounds particularly intriguing. What would be Halaster's one defining trait as a Dark Lord though? Why was he brought into Ravenloft? What heinous act has he committed that would warrant such punishment by the Dark Powers?Perhaps Halaster was intrigued by the concept of the Dark Powers, and turned the tables on the traditional "being carried away by the Mists" to Ravenloft. Halaster "broke" into the Demiplane of Dread where he intends to study just what the Dark Powers are, and just what their relationship to Ravenloft is. The Mad Mage is likely wild enough to want to try something like this! Wait... Now, I haven't read the "Shadowdale" module yet, but from what I've been hearing, Elminster has just disappeared. He's not dead.Elminster's "fate" is covered in the first chapter, as I recall.
MarkHall 09-04-07, 10:53 AM	That sounds particularly intriguing. What would be Halaster's one defining trait as a Dark Lord though? Why was he brought into Ravenloft? What heinous act has he committed that would warrant such punishment by the Dark Powers? I hashed it out with someone, but I can't recall what I came up with.
Lord Karsus 09-04-07, 02:30 PM	I'm disappointed enough with both Blackstaff and Sylūne's deaths - I really didn't want to add another to the list. -What left you lacking concerning Khelben's death? Personally, I found the entire situation very well done. Perhaps, as MT can attest to, I was a little disappointed of the lack of "Elvenness" that the returned City of Hope displayed.
captaincarot 09-07-07, 01:42 PM	-Now, who'd want to do that? Seriously...Think about it. Restore a wizard who is as mad as he is powerful (Remember, few know that he was cured of his madness)? I wouldn't want to be responsible for anything that came of that. some one who knew that the only way to stop the mythal that holds up the roof of the caverns under waterdeep was to do the afore said task. because mr h had some vital piece of knowledge required to stop it collapsing and because he's not dead but his soul is shattered and scattered to the 4 winds you can't speak with dead to get the knowledge off him. the results of failure being thousands of dead people the city being wiped out both above and below and a nice new lake to fish in. personally i'd have it that tremmors are felt in waterdeep, while bits of rock begin to fall from the cieling below. bit of scrying some divinations, bit of investigation then your party are into a do or lots of people die scenario, you could get just about any good group of charachters to do it for the being good bit, and the lords to pay some evil ones a fortune to do it other wise.
MarkHall 09-07-07, 04:22 PM	Before the Mythal under Waterdeep was common knowledge (it might have been mentioned in the City of Splendors boxed set, but it wasn't in FR1), I had Halaster taken by the Mists of Ravenloft, along with most of Undermountain. The caverns might have supported it, but some Talosians decided to cast a few Earthquake spells at Waterdeep. My characters got to run into a destroyed Waterdeep, trying to rescue people and things from the city. That is, until they set off a fuel-air bomb that set fire to a large portion of the city...
MarkusTay63 09-07-07, 04:43 PM	-What left you lacking concerning Khelben's death? Personally, I found the entire situation very well done. Perhaps, as MT can attest to, I was a little disappointed of the lack of "Elvenness" that the returned City of Hope displayed.True that. :( However, I will have to disagree with you on the relevance of Khelben's death with 4e. In the story, it was fortold and what-not, but that doesn't mean the idea wasn't thought-up a year ago (or whatever). They've known about 4e for TWO YEARS! I'm sure Schend wrote the novel with that in mind. What we know is that there will be major political changes in 4e, as well as changes to magic. So you DON'T see any relevance of a NEW POWERFUL city with MAJOR magical prowess having anything to do with the changes? :confused: The war in Thay, Undermountain, Blackstaff, the Tearing of the Weave... it's all part of some great RSE that they've been sneaking up on us for TWO YEARS - one that will make the ToT look like a walk in the park. :raincloud
godbeepit 09-08-07, 12:22 AM	Wait... I thought the Time of Troubles was a walk in the park??:confused: I mean, what else are gods gonna be doing on Toril? I mean, whether its a park of dead babies for Bane or a park of prancing faeries and elven drag is beside the point.:eek: