Jack the gnome [Archive] - Wizards Community

Jack the gnome [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dethmetal
10-18-07, 04:55 PM Ok, so i just finished reading "The Orc King" Jacks death at the end of it was really just dissapointing, he's made out to be an almost epic level wizard throughout the entire book to just get killed quite easily at the end. Other then that though i'd give the book a fair review. Though with knowing what i know about the spellplauge i can allready see the foreshadowing for catti-bree's eventual death/downfall
I really enjoyed the jack the gnome character, but was curious if he was someone that showed up in another novel somewhere or if he was just salvatores creation for this novel?
MerrikCale
10-18-07, 09:48 PM having read virtually all the novels, I do not recall Jack making an appearance.
Lord Karsus
10-19-07, 12:32 AM -Is his/her name actually 'Jack'?
ExtinctionBeta
10-19-07, 10:27 AM I remeber a Jack from Evris Cales novels. And he was a gnome or a halfling, I can't remember. Maybe you sub concisely remembered it as a similarity?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-19-07, 12:14 PM -Is his/her name actually 'Jack'?

I'm only up to the first 40 pages or so of The Orc King, but YES, "Jack" is character's name. I've read a lot of FR novels, and I'm pretty sure he is a newly created character and hasn't appeared elsewhere.
Lord Karsus
10-19-07, 12:24 PM I remeber a Jack from Evris Cales novels. And he was a gnome or a halfling, I can't remember. Maybe you sub concisely remembered it as a similarity?

-He was a Halfling.

I'm only up to the first 40 pages or so of The Orc King, but YES, "Jack" is character's name. I've read a lot of FR novels, and I'm pretty sure he is a newly created character and hasn't appeared elsewhere.

-Alright. I was gonna say, I don't remember ever seeing any Epic Wizards named 'Jack'.
ExtinctionBeta
10-19-07, 12:42 PM -He was a Halfling.

-Alright. I was gonna say, I don't remember ever seeing any Epic Wizards named 'Jack'.

And so both Characters die...and I laugh at the lesser races of FR. So it would seem anyone with the name Jack is doomed.

Sorry for any spoiler, can somone tell me how to do the "hide" command or the black lining backround?
Lord Karsus
10-19-07, 12:47 PM So it would seem anyone with the name Jack is doomed.

-Heh, so it would seem.

Sorry for any spoiler, can somone tell me how to do the "hide" command or the black lining backround?

-Two ways: Either 'SBLOCK' and '/SBLOCK' within brackets, or 'SPOILER' and '/SPOILER' within brackets. Both are slightly different, but block the text.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-19-07, 12:57 PM -Alright. I was gonna say, I don't remember ever seeing any Epic Wizards named 'Jack'.

Nor have I, m'lord, nor have I.
Zaggotzoo
10-19-07, 04:08 PM Just remember that Drizzt gave Jack's magical robe/vest to Catt, so maybe it's cursed and Jack will return in some form. I'm really surprised Drizzt didn't have Lady Alustriel check out the vest before he gave it to Catt....I mean it's a common adventuring precaution when dealing with evil casters' gear.
dethmetal
10-19-07, 04:11 PM Just remember that Drizzt gave Jack's magical robe/vest to Catt, so maybe it's cursed and Jack will return in some form. I'm really surprised Drizzt didn't have Lady Alustriel check out the vest before he gave it to Catt....I mean it's a common adventuring precaution when dealing with evil casters' gear.

I don't think it will be anything like that, she'll have enough things to worry about with the upcoming spellplauge.
Arbourean
10-20-07, 08:31 PM What's the life expectancy of a human in the Realms anyway? Barring divine intervention, magic spells and potions, or lichdom?
Purple Dragon Knight
10-21-07, 12:41 PM As per the PHB age guidelines?
Arbourean
10-22-07, 01:22 AM Actually I'm hoping Cattie-brie becomes an accomplished mage. Just in time for the Spellplague.:devil:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-22-07, 08:56 AM I'm not even a fan of Catti-brie, really, but what a crappy ending to her story the Spellplague would be.
Lord Karsus
10-22-07, 10:50 AM -I'm sorry, but that would just be dumb. Go back to the drawing boards. :P
Puritan13
10-22-07, 12:10 PM Personally, I hope she and Drizzt end up married with kids until she dies of old age at 87. She retires from adventuring at around the age of 40, thus Drizzt retires also (albeit temporarily), taking him out of any real stories for the next 47 years or so. After her death, he mourns for a couple years, and slowly begins to rejoin the world. Couple more decades pass as he has various adventures and re-establishes himself, and then the events in The Orc King happen.

Just my theory. I haven't gotten to read The Orc King yet.

I wonder if RAS will ever reveal any secrets about that time. Kinda like how J.K. Rowling revealed a secret about Dumbledore this last week.
ExtinctionBeta
10-22-07, 01:05 PM Personally, I hope she and Drizzt end up married with kids until she dies of old age at 87. She retires from adventuring at around the age of 40, thus Drizzt retires also (albeit temporarily), taking him out of any real stories for the next 47 years or so. After her death, he mourns for a couple years, and slowly begins to rejoin the world. Couple more decades pass as he has various adventures and re-establishes himself, and then the events in The Orc King happen.

Just my theory. I haven't gotten to read The Orc King yet.

I wonder if RAS will ever reveal any secrets about that time. Kinda like how J.K. Rowling revealed a secret about Dumbledore this last week.

How is Wulfgar and Cattie-brie going to even be alive? I thought humans had a shorten life span compared to others.
Puritan13
10-22-07, 01:19 PM How is Wulfgar and Cattie-brie going to even be alive? I thought humans had a shorten life span compared to others.Go back and read what I wrote. Take a second to actually comprehend what I wrote as well.
ExtinctionBeta
10-22-07, 02:39 PM Go back and read what I wrote. Take a second to actually comprehend what I wrote as well.

I was speaking of the Orc-King. Being that it is a post-forgotten realms novel in the near future.
Lord Karsus
10-22-07, 03:45 PM I was speaking of the Orc-King. Being that it is a post-forgotten realms novel in the near future.

-Only the prologue and epilogue are in the future. The main storyline takes place in the present.
Puritan13
10-22-07, 03:59 PM -Only the prologue and epilogue are in the future. The main storyline takes place in the present.Didn't know that.
Lord Karsus
10-22-07, 04:11 PM -Yep.
KazMaz
10-23-07, 09:27 PM I really found Jack to be a hilarious character. I got a lot of laughs in Orc King every time he was involved. His name alone is laughable.

Jack the Gnome! Evil wizard/psionist of the underdark! Long live Jack and his unstainable robes ! ! Hilarious death scene though. Tis a shame he was killed off - I did think him to be more powerful than a warrior such as Drizzt. Oh well :(
Fillow
03-23-08, 02:53 PM So, does it exist an official lore about this "Jack the gnome" ?
Who was he ?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
03-23-08, 08:51 PM So, does it exist an official lore about this "Jack the gnome" ?

Nowhere save the Orc King novel.
Fillow
03-24-08, 01:42 PM Thanks to you milady.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
03-24-08, 02:29 PM You're very welcome.:)
Straploknight
03-24-08, 06:12 PM Lol, Killing off powerful characters with simple means seems to be a Salvatore trademark, remeber Uthengentel Barison Del'Armgo and Bidderboo Harpell(sp?) What a way to go down.
sfdragon
03-24-08, 06:14 PM How is Wulfgar and Cattie-brie going to even be alive? I thought humans had a shorten life span compared to others.

potions of longevity
ioluam's logevity epic spell
that one spell in the waterdeep book that will do it under the right circumstances.
the increased lifespan feat (epic).

otherwise they reach around 100 and die.

although that is the norm of it, you could let them go over, just say they have a bit of elven blood.....
angelus_obscura
03-27-08, 01:09 PM It would be awesome if Cattie-Brie took the Ruathar PrC to gain some of that elven longevity. The spellcasting progression in that class would also ensure her expansion into the Art.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
03-27-08, 01:24 PM *laughs* Catti-brie hasn't even learned how to cast spells yet.
ArchmageMorgoloth
03-28-08, 10:58 AM So.. is it okay to talk about spoilers here then? :o Because let me tell you..

I was highly disappointed with Jack's death. I'm sorry, but even though I remain a fan of Drizzt, I hate how he comes out with this unbelieveable wins. I don't care how "in touch with the Hunter" he becomes, statistically, there's no way he should be able to beat an epic level wizard. Of course, this is a novel, but still! *flails* I'm so glad that Obould whooped Drizzt. We needed a "villain" who could finally put that drow in his place.

I am not a fan of the Spellplague and the 4E realms, so i was very annoyed to see the prologue that Salvatore put in there. Basically, he ruined the entire book for me. Why read the book when the prologue tells me pretty much everything..? Sure, part of the fun is the journey of getting there.. but the other half is once you get there! For that, i could have flipped to the last few pages before the epilogue and gotten the same effect.

Oh well.. more Obould is never a bad thing.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
03-28-08, 11:32 AM So.. is it okay to talk about spoilers here then? :o Because let me tell you..

I was highly disappointed with Jack's death. I'm sorry, but even though I remain a fan of Drizzt, I hate how he comes out with this unbelieveable wins. I don't care how "in touch with the Hunter" he becomes, statistically, there's no way he should be able to beat an epic level wizard. Of course, this is a novel, but still! *flails* I'm so glad that Obould whooped Drizzt. We needed a "villain" who could finally put that drow in his place.

Well...

How do we know Jack was epic level? That being said, I was disappointed in Jack's death, myself, mainly because I thought so much more could have been done with the character.

I am not a fan of the Spellplague and the 4E realms, so i was very annoyed to see the prologue that Salvatore put in there. Basically, he ruined the entire book for me. Why read the book when the prologue tells me pretty much everything..? Sure, part of the fun is the journey of getting there.. but the other half is once you get there! .

Yeah, I found that kind of annoying too--the prologue more or less tells you the outcome of the novel.
ArchmageMorgoloth
03-28-08, 02:29 PM Well...

How do we know Jack was epic level? That being said, I was disappointed in Jack's death, myself, mainly because I thought so much more could have been done with the character.

Yeah, I found that kind of annoying too--the prologue more or less tells you the outcome of the novel.

You're right Rinonalyrna. Jack doesn't particularly use any epic spells or the sort, so I'm just going on a guess. :)

But the prologue really was the worse part about it. I mean, not only does it ruin it for this novel, but others as well! It's like.. even while I was reading those recent novels of Thay, all I kept thinking about was how eventually everything would be turned upside down by the Spellplague and all that junk. *grumbles like Bruenor!*
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
03-28-08, 03:58 PM Yeah, the prologue was something a lot of people didn't like--of course, it's in the novel thanks to the Spellplague, a setting-wide event that many people dislike even more.:)
angelus_obscura
03-28-08, 10:02 PM *laughs* Catti-brie hasn't even learned how to cast spells yet.

I know. But isn't there a 100 year gap between the events of The Orc King and the Spellplague? IDK, in any case, what I said about Cattie-brie was a hopeful if AFTER she gained spellcasting ability. :)
sfdragon
03-29-08, 03:44 PM cattie-bie was in her late 30's wasn't she, if anything she's survive only about 39 more years on average, sure she'd be able to cast spells, the plague wouldn't effect her as she wouldn't be a lvl 14+ wizard.

this is of course she isnt the dear dear friend that lost her life at luskan that drizzt mentioned in the prologue
SmartPaladin
03-30-08, 02:03 PM Lol, Killing off powerful characters with simple means seems to be a Salvatore trademark, remeber Uthengentel Barison Del'Armgo and Bidderboo Harpell(sp?) What a way to go down.

WTF?! Bidderdoo Harpell died?! When'd that happen? Last I heard he was alive and kicking, well, and digging holes in the backyard. Had the advantage to being able to control his lycantropy better then any Werewolf could ever hope for.

cattie-bie was in her late 30's wasn't she, if anything she's survive only about 39 more years on average, sure she'd be able to cast spells, the plague wouldn't effect her as she wouldn't be a lvl 14+ wizard.

this is of course she isnt the dear dear friend that lost her life at luskan that drizzt mentioned in the prologue

If Catti-brie's the "Dear, dear, friend." Then I'll really be put out with RA. At most, Drizzt should think of her as his bunk-buddy. :P Seriously, I think the "Dear, Dear, Friend" who died in Luskan was Captain Duedermont. He did tend to go to port in Luskan.
sfdragon
03-30-08, 02:31 PM aaah but you see, i didn't type the rest of it either.
the dear dear friend is a female
its states that a dear dear friend lost her life and all her dreams or some such. which leaves two females alustriel, and cattie-brie.

and being that authors dont normally go off killing of other authors characters, my money is on cattie-brie being offed, unless wotc gave the go ahead for offing alustriel
SmartPaladin
03-30-08, 02:48 PM aaah but you see, i didn't type the rest of it either.
the dear dear friend is a female
its states that a dear dear friend lost her life and all her dreams or some such. which leaves two females alustriel, and cattie-brie.

and being that authors dont normally go off killing of other authors characters, my money is on cattie-brie being offed, unless wotc gave the go ahead for offing alustriel

But I thought Drizzt would have tapped Alustriel too? :P Seriously, Ed made her kinda easy. :P

Seriously, I think it'd be Alustriel, simply because otherwise she'd be one of the points of light wouldn't she? Based out in Silverymoon... I donno... Ether seem unlikely, granted, so does half the things in FR4E that's "happened" so far. Drizzt just doesn't have many female friends to pick from...
Straploknight
03-30-08, 04:01 PM WTF?! Bidderdoo Harpell died?! When'd that happen? Last I heard he was alive and kicking, well, and digging holes in the backyard. Had the advantage to being able to control his lycantropy better then any Werewolf could ever hope for.

No, I guess Bidderboo is still alive, but Uthengentel was second only to Zak as a fighter in menzo, Uthengental was a 22nd level fighter with the jewels to back up his psychopathic nature and Bidderdoo just flat took him down without even a wimper. I'm all for suspension if disbelief and playing outside the rules if it makes for a good story, but in this one instance, knowing how good Uthengentel really was I was like WTF when I read that passage in the book.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
03-30-08, 07:49 PM By the way, it is established in The Orc King that Cattie-Brie and Drizzt now think of each other as husband and wife (even if they haven't formally married yet). So why would Drizzt refer to his wife as just a "dear, dear friend"?
Eli_the_Tanner
04-01-08, 07:00 AM Alustrial seems logical, what with the Spellplague scheduled to cull the spellcasting population. Although currently I wouldn't place Alustrial among one of Drizzt's 'dear, dear feiends' such a frienship could certainly develop now that Alustrial is taking a more active role in Mithral hall's affairs.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
04-01-08, 12:13 PM Are you all sure the "dear, dear friend" in question was female? I remember it being male.
Eli_the_Tanner
04-01-08, 06:34 PM I've just had a look and it doesn't actually mention gender at all it just says:

"I have witnessed the death of once-proud Luskan, and with it, the death of a dear, dear friend, whose dreams lay shattered and broken beside the bodies of five thousand victims."

Could well be Duerdemont then, he's known to make port in Luskan.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
04-01-08, 06:50 PM Thanks for the quote.
Eli_the_Tanner
04-02-08, 08:39 PM Thanks for the quote.

That's OK, thank's for bringing the light of reason to the table...we were rolling initiative before the monster had arrived for abit there.
sfdragon
04-07-08, 04:35 AM I've just had a look and it doesn't actually mention gender at all it just says:

Could well be Duerdemont then, he's known to make port in Luskan.

could be wulfgar as well, as duerdemont was already on his his years
Dxzauvrinn
04-09-08, 10:03 PM I thought Jack the Gnome was a near epic level wizard as well. He didn't use very powerful spells (why did he only fire lightning bolts at Drizzt when he seemed clearly capable of casting more powerful spells?), but the way Salvatore talked about him being an old enemy of Alustrial from centuries ago and how he learned the "secret" of dark magic from mind flayers, it just seemed like he was very powerful.

I hate the way he died too. I would like to see Drizzt get his arse kicked for once. I'm a fan, but he seems just too durn good. I want the Friends of Mithrall Hall to have to fight a challenge that takes all of them to win against it, and barely. I guess Errtu qualifies, but no challenge since the balor has lived up to that task.

Also, I think it would be great if Tos'un joined Drizzt and crew. I know, according to the epilogue, that he settles down in the Moonwood and marries a moon elf, but he's a very interesting character. He has fierce combat abilities that are nearly the equal of Drizzt and he's sort of laid back. I think his neutral disposition is a lot more realistic of a drow whose turned away from a evil society and culture than Drizzt's righteous attitude.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
04-10-08, 11:46 AM It's not unlikely that Jack was of epic level, it's just that without stats we have no way of knowing.:) If one goes by how Drizzt is written in the novels, one might think he's epic level, too (even though he isn't).
dethmetal
04-10-08, 12:10 PM I got suckered into the beilief that jack was epic level too, though after re-reading the book i'm not sure why. All the descriptions of jacks power were mostly from the view of jack himself, or his shaman pawn, who would have believed anyone was epic in comparison to his own level.

I guess it's just one of salvatore's gifts to make even the minor characters seem to be epic.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dethmetal 10-18-07, 04:55 PM	Ok, so i just finished reading "The Orc King" Jacks death at the end of it was really just dissapointing, he's made out to be an almost epic level wizard throughout the entire book to just get killed quite easily at the end. Other then that though i'd give the book a fair review. Though with knowing what i know about the spellplauge i can allready see the foreshadowing for catti-bree's eventual death/downfall I really enjoyed the jack the gnome character, but was curious if he was someone that showed up in another novel somewhere or if he was just salvatores creation for this novel?
MerrikCale 10-18-07, 09:48 PM	having read virtually all the novels, I do not recall Jack making an appearance.
Lord Karsus 10-19-07, 12:32 AM	-Is his/her name actually 'Jack'?
ExtinctionBeta 10-19-07, 10:27 AM	I remeber a Jack from Evris Cales novels. And he was a gnome or a halfling, I can't remember. Maybe you sub concisely remembered it as a similarity?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-19-07, 12:14 PM	-Is his/her name actually 'Jack'? I'm only up to the first 40 pages or so of The Orc King, but YES, "Jack" is character's name. I've read a lot of FR novels, and I'm pretty sure he is a newly created character and hasn't appeared elsewhere.
Lord Karsus 10-19-07, 12:24 PM	I remeber a Jack from Evris Cales novels. And he was a gnome or a halfling, I can't remember. Maybe you sub concisely remembered it as a similarity? -He was a Halfling. I'm only up to the first 40 pages or so of The Orc King, but YES, "Jack" is character's name. I've read a lot of FR novels, and I'm pretty sure he is a newly created character and hasn't appeared elsewhere. -Alright. I was gonna say, I don't remember ever seeing any Epic Wizards named 'Jack'.
ExtinctionBeta 10-19-07, 12:42 PM	-He was a Halfling. -Alright. I was gonna say, I don't remember ever seeing any Epic Wizards named 'Jack'. And so both Characters die...and I laugh at the lesser races of FR. So it would seem anyone with the name Jack is doomed. Sorry for any spoiler, can somone tell me how to do the "hide" command or the black lining backround?
Lord Karsus 10-19-07, 12:47 PM	So it would seem anyone with the name Jack is doomed. -Heh, so it would seem. Sorry for any spoiler, can somone tell me how to do the "hide" command or the black lining backround? -Two ways: Either 'SBLOCK' and '/SBLOCK' within brackets, or 'SPOILER' and '/SPOILER' within brackets. Both are slightly different, but block the text.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-19-07, 12:57 PM	-Alright. I was gonna say, I don't remember ever seeing any Epic Wizards named 'Jack'. Nor have I, m'lord, nor have I.
Zaggotzoo 10-19-07, 04:08 PM	Just remember that Drizzt gave Jack's magical robe/vest to Catt, so maybe it's cursed and Jack will return in some form. I'm really surprised Drizzt didn't have Lady Alustriel check out the vest before he gave it to Catt....I mean it's a common adventuring precaution when dealing with evil casters' gear.
dethmetal 10-19-07, 04:11 PM	Just remember that Drizzt gave Jack's magical robe/vest to Catt, so maybe it's cursed and Jack will return in some form. I'm really surprised Drizzt didn't have Lady Alustriel check out the vest before he gave it to Catt....I mean it's a common adventuring precaution when dealing with evil casters' gear. I don't think it will be anything like that, she'll have enough things to worry about with the upcoming spellplauge.
Arbourean 10-20-07, 08:31 PM	What's the life expectancy of a human in the Realms anyway? Barring divine intervention, magic spells and potions, or lichdom?
Purple Dragon Knight 10-21-07, 12:41 PM	As per the PHB age guidelines?
Arbourean 10-22-07, 01:22 AM	Actually I'm hoping Cattie-brie becomes an accomplished mage. Just in time for the Spellplague.:devil:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-22-07, 08:56 AM	I'm not even a fan of Catti-brie, really, but what a crappy ending to her story the Spellplague would be.
Lord Karsus 10-22-07, 10:50 AM	-I'm sorry, but that would just be dumb. Go back to the drawing boards. :P
Puritan13 10-22-07, 12:10 PM	Personally, I hope she and Drizzt end up married with kids until she dies of old age at 87. She retires from adventuring at around the age of 40, thus Drizzt retires also (albeit temporarily), taking him out of any real stories for the next 47 years or so. After her death, he mourns for a couple years, and slowly begins to rejoin the world. Couple more decades pass as he has various adventures and re-establishes himself, and then the events in The Orc King happen. Just my theory. I haven't gotten to read The Orc King yet. I wonder if RAS will ever reveal any secrets about that time. Kinda like how J.K. Rowling revealed a secret about Dumbledore this last week.
ExtinctionBeta 10-22-07, 01:05 PM	Personally, I hope she and Drizzt end up married with kids until she dies of old age at 87. She retires from adventuring at around the age of 40, thus Drizzt retires also (albeit temporarily), taking him out of any real stories for the next 47 years or so. After her death, he mourns for a couple years, and slowly begins to rejoin the world. Couple more decades pass as he has various adventures and re-establishes himself, and then the events in The Orc King happen. Just my theory. I haven't gotten to read The Orc King yet. I wonder if RAS will ever reveal any secrets about that time. Kinda like how J.K. Rowling revealed a secret about Dumbledore this last week. How is Wulfgar and Cattie-brie going to even be alive? I thought humans had a shorten life span compared to others.
Puritan13 10-22-07, 01:19 PM	How is Wulfgar and Cattie-brie going to even be alive? I thought humans had a shorten life span compared to others.Go back and read what I wrote. Take a second to actually comprehend what I wrote as well.
ExtinctionBeta 10-22-07, 02:39 PM	Go back and read what I wrote. Take a second to actually comprehend what I wrote as well. I was speaking of the Orc-King. Being that it is a post-forgotten realms novel in the near future.
Lord Karsus 10-22-07, 03:45 PM	I was speaking of the Orc-King. Being that it is a post-forgotten realms novel in the near future. -Only the prologue and epilogue are in the future. The main storyline takes place in the present.
Puritan13 10-22-07, 03:59 PM	-Only the prologue and epilogue are in the future. The main storyline takes place in the present.Didn't know that.
Lord Karsus 10-22-07, 04:11 PM	-Yep.
KazMaz 10-23-07, 09:27 PM	I really found Jack to be a hilarious character. I got a lot of laughs in Orc King every time he was involved. His name alone is laughable. Jack the Gnome! Evil wizard/psionist of the underdark! Long live Jack and his unstainable robes ! ! Hilarious death scene though. Tis a shame he was killed off - I did think him to be more powerful than a warrior such as Drizzt. Oh well :(
Fillow 03-23-08, 02:53 PM	So, does it exist an official lore about this "Jack the gnome" ? Who was he ?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-23-08, 08:51 PM	So, does it exist an official lore about this "Jack the gnome" ? Nowhere save the Orc King novel.
Fillow 03-24-08, 01:42 PM	Thanks to you milady.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-24-08, 02:29 PM	You're very welcome.:)
Straploknight 03-24-08, 06:12 PM	Lol, Killing off powerful characters with simple means seems to be a Salvatore trademark, remeber Uthengentel Barison Del'Armgo and Bidderboo Harpell(sp?) What a way to go down.
sfdragon 03-24-08, 06:14 PM	How is Wulfgar and Cattie-brie going to even be alive? I thought humans had a shorten life span compared to others. potions of longevity ioluam's logevity epic spell that one spell in the waterdeep book that will do it under the right circumstances. the increased lifespan feat (epic). otherwise they reach around 100 and die. although that is the norm of it, you could let them go over, just say they have a bit of elven blood.....
angelus_obscura 03-27-08, 01:09 PM	It would be awesome if Cattie-Brie took the Ruathar PrC to gain some of that elven longevity. The spellcasting progression in that class would also ensure her expansion into the Art.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-27-08, 01:24 PM	laughs Catti-brie hasn't even learned how to cast spells yet.
ArchmageMorgoloth 03-28-08, 10:58 AM	So.. is it okay to talk about spoilers here then? :o Because let me tell you.. I was highly disappointed with Jack's death. I'm sorry, but even though I remain a fan of Drizzt, I hate how he comes out with this unbelieveable wins. I don't care how "in touch with the Hunter" he becomes, statistically, there's no way he should be able to beat an epic level wizard. Of course, this is a novel, but still! flails I'm so glad that Obould whooped Drizzt. We needed a "villain" who could finally put that drow in his place. I am not a fan of the Spellplague and the 4E realms, so i was very annoyed to see the prologue that Salvatore put in there. Basically, he ruined the entire book for me. Why read the book when the prologue tells me pretty much everything..? Sure, part of the fun is the journey of getting there.. but the other half is once you get there! For that, i could have flipped to the last few pages before the epilogue and gotten the same effect. Oh well.. more Obould is never a bad thing.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-28-08, 11:32 AM	So.. is it okay to talk about spoilers here then? :o Because let me tell you.. I was highly disappointed with Jack's death. I'm sorry, but even though I remain a fan of Drizzt, I hate how he comes out with this unbelieveable wins. I don't care how "in touch with the Hunter" he becomes, statistically, there's no way he should be able to beat an epic level wizard. Of course, this is a novel, but still! flails I'm so glad that Obould whooped Drizzt. We needed a "villain" who could finally put that drow in his place. Well... How do we know Jack was epic level? That being said, I was disappointed in Jack's death, myself, mainly because I thought so much more could have been done with the character. I am not a fan of the Spellplague and the 4E realms, so i was very annoyed to see the prologue that Salvatore put in there. Basically, he ruined the entire book for me. Why read the book when the prologue tells me pretty much everything..? Sure, part of the fun is the journey of getting there.. but the other half is once you get there! . Yeah, I found that kind of annoying too--the prologue more or less tells you the outcome of the novel.
ArchmageMorgoloth 03-28-08, 02:29 PM	Well... How do we know Jack was epic level? That being said, I was disappointed in Jack's death, myself, mainly because I thought so much more could have been done with the character. Yeah, I found that kind of annoying too--the prologue more or less tells you the outcome of the novel. You're right Rinonalyrna. Jack doesn't particularly use any epic spells or the sort, so I'm just going on a guess. :) But the prologue really was the worse part about it. I mean, not only does it ruin it for this novel, but others as well! It's like.. even while I was reading those recent novels of Thay, all I kept thinking about was how eventually everything would be turned upside down by the Spellplague and all that junk. grumbles like Bruenor!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-28-08, 03:58 PM	Yeah, the prologue was something a lot of people didn't like--of course, it's in the novel thanks to the Spellplague, a setting-wide event that many people dislike even more.:)
angelus_obscura 03-28-08, 10:02 PM	laughs Catti-brie hasn't even learned how to cast spells yet. I know. But isn't there a 100 year gap between the events of The Orc King and the Spellplague? IDK, in any case, what I said about Cattie-brie was a hopeful if AFTER she gained spellcasting ability. :)
sfdragon 03-29-08, 03:44 PM	cattie-bie was in her late 30's wasn't she, if anything she's survive only about 39 more years on average, sure she'd be able to cast spells, the plague wouldn't effect her as she wouldn't be a lvl 14+ wizard. this is of course she isnt the dear dear friend that lost her life at luskan that drizzt mentioned in the prologue
SmartPaladin 03-30-08, 02:03 PM	Lol, Killing off powerful characters with simple means seems to be a Salvatore trademark, remeber Uthengentel Barison Del'Armgo and Bidderboo Harpell(sp?) What a way to go down. WTF?! Bidderdoo Harpell died?! When'd that happen? Last I heard he was alive and kicking, well, and digging holes in the backyard. Had the advantage to being able to control his lycantropy better then any Werewolf could ever hope for. cattie-bie was in her late 30's wasn't she, if anything she's survive only about 39 more years on average, sure she'd be able to cast spells, the plague wouldn't effect her as she wouldn't be a lvl 14+ wizard. this is of course she isnt the dear dear friend that lost her life at luskan that drizzt mentioned in the prologue If Catti-brie's the "Dear, dear, friend." Then I'll really be put out with RA. At most, Drizzt should think of her as his bunk-buddy. :P Seriously, I think the "Dear, Dear, Friend" who died in Luskan was Captain Duedermont. He did tend to go to port in Luskan.
sfdragon 03-30-08, 02:31 PM	aaah but you see, i didn't type the rest of it either. the dear dear friend is a female its states that a dear dear friend lost her life and all her dreams or some such. which leaves two females alustriel, and cattie-brie. and being that authors dont normally go off killing of other authors characters, my money is on cattie-brie being offed, unless wotc gave the go ahead for offing alustriel
SmartPaladin 03-30-08, 02:48 PM	aaah but you see, i didn't type the rest of it either. the dear dear friend is a female its states that a dear dear friend lost her life and all her dreams or some such. which leaves two females alustriel, and cattie-brie. and being that authors dont normally go off killing of other authors characters, my money is on cattie-brie being offed, unless wotc gave the go ahead for offing alustriel But I thought Drizzt would have tapped Alustriel too? :P Seriously, Ed made her kinda easy. :P Seriously, I think it'd be Alustriel, simply because otherwise she'd be one of the points of light wouldn't she? Based out in Silverymoon... I donno... Ether seem unlikely, granted, so does half the things in FR4E that's "happened" so far. Drizzt just doesn't have many female friends to pick from...
Straploknight 03-30-08, 04:01 PM	WTF?! Bidderdoo Harpell died?! When'd that happen? Last I heard he was alive and kicking, well, and digging holes in the backyard. Had the advantage to being able to control his lycantropy better then any Werewolf could ever hope for. No, I guess Bidderboo is still alive, but Uthengentel was second only to Zak as a fighter in menzo, Uthengental was a 22nd level fighter with the jewels to back up his psychopathic nature and Bidderdoo just flat took him down without even a wimper. I'm all for suspension if disbelief and playing outside the rules if it makes for a good story, but in this one instance, knowing how good Uthengentel really was I was like WTF when I read that passage in the book.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-30-08, 07:49 PM	By the way, it is established in The Orc King that Cattie-Brie and Drizzt now think of each other as husband and wife (even if they haven't formally married yet). So why would Drizzt refer to his wife as just a "dear, dear friend"?
Eli_the_Tanner 04-01-08, 07:00 AM	Alustrial seems logical, what with the Spellplague scheduled to cull the spellcasting population. Although currently I wouldn't place Alustrial among one of Drizzt's 'dear, dear feiends' such a frienship could certainly develop now that Alustrial is taking a more active role in Mithral hall's affairs.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-01-08, 12:13 PM	Are you all sure the "dear, dear friend" in question was female? I remember it being male.
Eli_the_Tanner 04-01-08, 06:34 PM	I've just had a look and it doesn't actually mention gender at all it just says: "I have witnessed the death of once-proud Luskan, and with it, the death of a dear, dear friend, whose dreams lay shattered and broken beside the bodies of five thousand victims." Could well be Duerdemont then, he's known to make port in Luskan.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-01-08, 06:50 PM	Thanks for the quote.
Eli_the_Tanner 04-02-08, 08:39 PM	Thanks for the quote. That's OK, thank's for bringing the light of reason to the table...we were rolling initiative before the monster had arrived for abit there.
sfdragon 04-07-08, 04:35 AM	I've just had a look and it doesn't actually mention gender at all it just says: Could well be Duerdemont then, he's known to make port in Luskan. could be wulfgar as well, as duerdemont was already on his his years
Dxzauvrinn 04-09-08, 10:03 PM	I thought Jack the Gnome was a near epic level wizard as well. He didn't use very powerful spells (why did he only fire lightning bolts at Drizzt when he seemed clearly capable of casting more powerful spells?), but the way Salvatore talked about him being an old enemy of Alustrial from centuries ago and how he learned the "secret" of dark magic from mind flayers, it just seemed like he was very powerful. I hate the way he died too. I would like to see Drizzt get his arse kicked for once. I'm a fan, but he seems just too durn good. I want the Friends of Mithrall Hall to have to fight a challenge that takes all of them to win against it, and barely. I guess Errtu qualifies, but no challenge since the balor has lived up to that task. Also, I think it would be great if Tos'un joined Drizzt and crew. I know, according to the epilogue, that he settles down in the Moonwood and marries a moon elf, but he's a very interesting character. He has fierce combat abilities that are nearly the equal of Drizzt and he's sort of laid back. I think his neutral disposition is a lot more realistic of a drow whose turned away from a evil society and culture than Drizzt's righteous attitude.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 04-10-08, 11:46 AM	It's not unlikely that Jack was of epic level, it's just that without stats we have no way of knowing.:) If one goes by how Drizzt is written in the novels, one might think he's epic level, too (even though he isn't).
dethmetal 04-10-08, 12:10 PM	I got suckered into the beilief that jack was epic level too, though after re-reading the book i'm not sure why. All the descriptions of jacks power were mostly from the view of jack himself, or his shaman pawn, who would have believed anyone was epic in comparison to his own level. I guess it's just one of salvatore's gifts to make even the minor characters seem to be epic.