Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shiftkitty 05-23-07, 10:28 PM	I know there's a write-up in Dragon 302, I'm just hoping someone can give me just Gromph Baenre's d20 stats. He's the only one I need the info for. I've got a player just itching for a meeting with "Grumpy", as he calls him. If I wind up needing the others, I'll buy the mag, I promise! Right now, I can't justify cost + shipping for one piece of info. Pleeeeeeze? I'll say nice things about you in my blog...:D I'm also curious to see the numbers because of a question I saw on another board. Gromph vs. Elminster. Who wins? I know Elminster's more powerful, but I'd bet on Gromph because I think he'd fight dirtier.
runestar 05-24-07, 02:34 AM	IIRC, he was a wizard20 in 2ed and a diviner16/archmage4 in 3ed. Not sure about his latest stats though...
Calmar 05-24-07, 03:50 AM	IIRC, he was a wizard20 in 2ed and a diviner16/archmage4 in 3ed. Not sure about his latest stats though... Whit that information (and without, too, of course) you easily can make him up. Your friend cannot find out, if your Gromph is 'official', anyway.
Grandmaster_Kane 05-24-07, 12:02 PM	I always use a different version of gromph epic Envoker 25/ arch 5
Alediran 05-24-07, 02:48 PM	I'm also curious to see the numbers because of a question I saw on another board. Gromph vs. Elminster. Who wins? I know Elminster's more powerful, but I'd bet on Gromph because I think he'd fight dirtier. A 700 hundred years drow archmage against a 1000+ years senior Chosen of Mystra, yeah right. Manshoon is even nastier than Gromph and he was Elminster's apprentice, after that he died several times against ol' El.
GothicDan 05-24-07, 03:19 PM	Haha. Gromph fights dirtier... El may not be a war mage (like the Simbul), but I think he's one of the dirtiest fighting mages in the Realms. After all, he once had the mindset to make an adequate rogue and fighter in his distant past. That tells you something about his sensibilities.
Shiftkitty 05-24-07, 07:52 PM	The way I'd play Gromph, El would learn new depths of "fighting dirty". ;)
Grandmaster_Kane 05-24-07, 09:07 PM	I invented a speel that turns a man's "little friend" into a monsterous collsal snake and automatically gets to attack without a save talk about dirty fighting
Shiftkitty 05-24-07, 09:33 PM	ROFLMAO! That's the sort of thing my group's wizard player would come up with! I've got to tell him that one! What level is that set at?:D :D :D And THAT'S why you're the Grandmaster!
GothicDan 05-24-07, 09:43 PM	The way I'd play Gromph, El would learn new depths of "fighting dirty". Well, I suppose if you just make characters however you want, then they truly are however you want, eh?
souldnce9 05-25-07, 01:06 AM	IIRC, he was a wizard20 in 2ed and a diviner16/archmage4 in 3ed. Not sure about his latest stats though... The FR Underdark has him as the diviner16/archmage4 pg. 161, but I'm sure after the whole encounter with that Lich Dyrr, during Lolth's silence just might of brought him up to epic, but who knows, he is still a priestess butt kisser who is afraid to leave the comfort of his own home. Any way when I become leader of the Shadow Thieves Guild both Gromph and El won't know what hit them. Hehe actually I'm just going to have fun going through there stuff when they aren't home. I'm sure both of them have some goodies that I want. I may still have a ways to go, but when I do, let the looting commence. hehehe
Shiftkitty 05-25-07, 11:52 AM	Gothic Dan Role-playing is part of the game. It's more than just numbers on dice, y'know. If someone comes in playing El as dirty as I'd play Gromph (or Dumph, as another player calls him), cool. But we do run a down and dirty campaign, which only makes the really good guys shine all the more. It's not a matter of "making" Gromph however I want but of portraying Gromph. He's an evil SOB, a bit strangled by mommy's apron strings, psychologically crushed and twisted by his culture, I can take him lower yet and still keep within the bounds of the game and the accepted tweaks of our campaign. All that frustration is going to come out any way it can, although like most drow males, he's still totally PW'd when it comes to the dark elf femmes.
Grandmaster_Kane 05-25-07, 06:30 PM	ROFLMAO! That's the sort of thing my group's wizard player would come up with! I've got to tell him that one! What level is that set at?:D :D :D And THAT'S why you're the Grandmaster! Well it is a 9th level transmutation spell actually we made 2 versions of it 1 is a 9th level spell and last for 1 mintue and the other is a epic spell that is permernent it is pretty funny We have made some other pretty nasty spells as well
XHereticX 05-25-07, 08:02 PM	The FR Underdark has him as the diviner16/archmage4 pg. 161, but I'm sure after the whole encounter with that Lich Dyrr, during Lolth's silence just might of brought him up to epic, but who knows, he is still a priestess butt kisser who is afraid to leave the comfort of his own home. Any way when I become leader of the Shadow Thieves Guild both Gromph and El won't know what hit them. Hehe actually I'm just going to have fun going through there stuff when they aren't home. I'm sure both of them have some goodies that I want. I may still have a ways to go, but when I do, let the looting commence. hehehe Actually, I recall seeing stats for Dyrr somewhere and I recall that he has only a total of 24 caster levels.
Shiftkitty 05-25-07, 08:09 PM	Just to quench my curiosity, though, does anyone have the full "official" stats on Gromph? It might save me an awful lot of hasty work if I don't have to tweak him around too much to fit our gameworld.
souldnce9 05-29-07, 01:52 AM	See! If you subscribed to Dragon you wouldn't be having this problem. :P I wish I was still subscribed to Dragon. :raincloud Damn my drinking! I never have any money for anything else! :pint: hehe jk. I've never seen them anywhere. I thought they were in the Underdark book, but when I read your post I looked and couldn't find them.
Shiftkitty 05-29-07, 03:52 PM	I know they're in Dragon 302. I'll probably just end up buying it. The way this campaign has gone, I just found out I'm gonna need stats for some heavy hitters in Menzoberranzan! Argh! These players of mine! They really like "slapping the dragon", which is a phrase coined by an elf fighter named Stormbringer years ago. More than just taking dangerous chances, it refers to foolish courage and unimagineable audacity. Imagine Bugs Bunny when he slapped the bull in that cartoon and said "Stop steaming up my tail!" A more modern phrase might be "Tap-dancing on a land-mine". You know, if they had just gotten into Menzoberranzan, made their contact, and got out, Gromph may never have even known they were there. But nooOOOoooo, they just HAD to dick with him when he was firing up Narbondel... And I wouldn't be having to come up with these stats!
souldnce9 05-29-07, 05:35 PM	You know.... There is a cure for slapping the dragon's tail, and that would be slapping the back of the dragon's throat. When I first started gaming years ago, my group was like that as well. After killing off some characters, it would make us know that we are not immortal, we play a lot more cautiously now. Don't be what I like to call a sissy dm! If the players want to play recklessly they must deal with the consequenses! Kill Them! :devil:
Shiftkitty 05-29-07, 09:16 PM	Slapping the back of the dragon's throat! I love it! Actually, the chances they take are the stuff of epic legends. I set up the rolls, they go for it, and it's like they're all sleeping with Lady Luck or something. They pull off some insane stuff, some of which has caused the game to stop while we do a quick look-up to see if such a stunt would be even remotely possible, and somehow it all stays as part of the fun. Characters die, and they often die messy deaths because of this high-toned adventuring style. In Undermountain is an old scratching on the wall that says "Here Lies V'nneth. His Death Sucked." The unfortunate soul got his brains sucked out by a mind-flayer variant called a Kraken-tua or something like that. Nasty critter! Another thought he could run underneath a T-Rex and disembowel it in a clever fashion...STOMP! I think the group's unofficial motto is "Live fast, fight hard, and give 'em a death scene they'll remember for years to come!" I love it when the players are more chaotic than their characters! But believe it or not, this is not a strictly hack-n-slash group. A fair amount of role-playing goes on, with negotiations, diplomacy, intrigue, and the subtler stuff. One player has asked me to develop local economies a little better, because his character has a small shop in some town that he's hoping to expand on. (He doesn't know he's been robbed by kobolds yet.) When they start planning for their characters' retirements, or what they'll leave to whom in their wills, that's a cool level of involvement. We're in a heavy role-playing bit right now, so there's more thinking than slashing. If the party expects to accomplish their next task, they realllllllllly have to play Gromph like a fiddle (not easy for a guy whose very survival and social status depends on his ability to read people), or else win him over with their charming personalities (of course, they've already ticked him off once). Barring that, they could probably part with some rare surface magic tomes they found earlier (which will make the party's wizard weep pitifully). So far they haven't proven stupid enough to threaten him...
souldnce9 05-30-07, 03:46 AM	That sounds like a lot of fun! Seems you've got it covered then. As long as the players are having fun that is what is important. I have another character that is a priestess of Eilistraee, and I am using the Book of Exalted Deeds to play her. One of my goals with her is to start an orphanage in the Dale Lands for children who have lost their parents in Drow raids. I so love roleplaying! :love:
Realms Walker 06-06-07, 07:01 PM	I dont see how a party of PCs could win Vs Gromph unless they out leveled him, had more magic at there disposal and had ways of Disabling his contingancies and connection to teh city of Menzoberranzen itself.. He is old and one of the best thought out NPCs in Menzoberranzen. He has always struck me as the most rounded in his Ideals, motivations etc. He has lived a very long time at the top of a extremely dangerous society. That isnt just due to his power its cause he knows what to do in all situations for the most part. Your PC's playing pranks on him or whatever when he was setting Narbondel in its cycle for the next day/night is silly to me honestly. They wouldn't have lived more then 2 days past that little joke or at the very least with there freedom intact. There are somethings in D&D that have always perplexed me that PCs can and do. Such as Dragons is another one. Dragons have for a very long time been a favorite villan for players to face but if you truly consider the intellect etc of those creatures you find it really hard that a player could best one with out Extremely overwhelming odds and taking quite a few casualties. Anway my mini rant is done. have fun Pantsing Gromph or whatever your RP centered group is going to do to a ancient Archmage.. /snicker (In some ways I appologies cause my response was charged with much Vitriol but I am justified) And Gromph should be able to make alot of yer PCs happy judging by there motto "Live fast, fight hard, and give 'em a death scene they'll remember for years to come!"
souldnce9 06-06-07, 08:44 PM	You know my group has yet to go up against a dragon (except a stupid juvinile white) and not take enourmous casualties (i.e. death). Personally I wouldn't set my group against Gromph either, unless of course they are a higher level than he. Actually the dm would probably have a hard time getting us to even go to Menzo. We are quite the cautious group!:D
Faraer 06-06-07, 09:10 PM	That isnt just due to his power its cause he knows what to do in all situations for the most part.Right. No mage of power willingly and openly fights capable foes if he can avoid it. Defeating one's enemies usually comes down to who's smarter, more knowledgable and better prepared, not how big a fireball you can throw. Someone impatient -- itching for a fight, like Shiftkitty's player -- would stand little chance.
Shiftkitty 06-08-07, 11:55 AM	Oh, that party is reckless, but they aren't stupid. They aren't engaging Gromph in combat. They just wanted to meet him. Like I said, they do spend some quality time with their grey matter, and as soon as they realized who they had ticked off they went into heavy statesman and diplomat modes. One of my players has the gift of gab and started in. I decided his PCs tongue had just saved the group, and Gromph needed a party of idiots to ah, "run a few errands". And not even the rogue is stupid enough to try to filch anything.
Lord Karsus 06-11-07, 06:09 PM	Gothic Dan Role-playing is part of the game. It's more than just numbers on dice, y'know. -Ha, ha, ha! Yeah, Dan! Roleplaying is more than just dice! :D -That was good for a chuckle... -I've taken into consideration what Dan said, though, and I agree with him. Elminster would, most likely, fight "dirtier", especially since Gromph Baenre would be highly outclassed.
QuenthelsChampion 06-12-07, 01:15 PM	Well in The Dragon magazine 302 Gromph was 18th level diviner and a level 4 Archmage. Which for me makes more sense then a level 20 char because to be the Archmage of Menzo means he has to seriously be one powerful dude if he is going to be the most influencial male in the city, and explains why he could be so evenly matched with a level 26 lich who if he was level 20 would have wiped the floor with him. QC
Shiftkitty 06-12-07, 05:43 PM	I thought as much myself, thanks. I have decided to go ahead and order a copy of 302. I'm waiting with baited breath... (the mailman left a sample of Scope. Does that mean anything?) I kind of need stats on all the heavy-hitters of Menzo, now. (Blasted PCs... know nothing about discretion... grumble... I swear if they've left behind anything implicating Baenre I'll... grumble grumble!)
Lord Karsus 06-12-07, 10:15 PM	I kind of need stats on all the heavy-hitters of Menzo, now. (Blasted PCs... know nothing about discretion... grumble... I swear if they've left behind anything implicating Baenre I'll... grumble grumble!) -Zanan has a big list of Drow NPCs.
The_Wrath_of_Talos 06-15-07, 05:36 PM	The question is does your campaign take place before or after Gromph gets his new eyes, turned to stone, plays with halfling angels and fights a lich and a half shadow dragon? Or before that?
Shiftkitty 06-15-07, 10:42 PM	I haven't read WotSQ yet. I just got Dissolution a couple of weeks ago. I never treat the novels as game material, anyway. They're just inspiration, but I had set it up that Lolth had disappeared from the Drow before I ever even read anything about WotSQ. I figured that a deity so devoted to chaos wouldn't be a deity who would be exactly loyal to her own followers, so our story has followed it's own path on a power struggle in Menzo minus one Spider Queen. Some characters who I understand die in the books are alive in our set-up, so it's pretty easy for me to keep the book and the game separate. Anyway, I finally got Dragon 302, and was surprised to find how close I had gotten tweaking Gromph to fit the campaign. I only had to make minor adjustments, nothing sweeping that the players will notice, and I got pretty spot-on (allowing for our own house rules). But now that I have the stats, it might be time for Triel's little boy to take a bunch of PCs to school. They've been getting cocky...:plotting:
Duagloth 06-16-07, 09:47 AM	But now that I have the stats, it might be time for Triel's little boy to take a bunch of PCs to school. They've been getting cocky...:plotting: Hmm Triel is Gromphs Sister. Little boy?*g*
Shiftkitty 06-16-07, 12:57 PM	Jeggred... Gromph's nephew... Boy, family reunions for the Baenres must be interesting, eh? "Group photo, everybody keep your hands were we can see them!" And then the photographer uses a flash camera...
souldnce9 06-16-07, 01:50 PM	Wow I would love to be a fly on the wall for one of those.
Shiftkitty 06-16-07, 05:11 PM	Probably better to be a spider. They'd be less likely to squash you. What sort of games do you think they'd have at the picnic? "Pin the Spear Through the Kobold"? Musical chairs where the loser gets sacrificed to Lolth?
Lord Karsus 06-16-07, 08:49 PM	-Jeggred was killed at the hands of Quenthel.
TheDarkPrince 06-16-07, 10:29 PM	When did that happen? He just lopes off into the Abyss when the three ladies go into the temple.
Shiftkitty 06-16-07, 10:32 PM	Lord Karsus Your Lordship? Is that the proper title?:) He's still kicking over here. I'm not following the path of the novels. Lolth abandoning the Drow in my campaign was coincidence. Anyway, Greygar the wizard needs to be taken down a notch. (He's been the cockiest of the party.) GREYGAR: I can't pronounce "Jeggred". What if I just call him "Big Ugly"? GROMPH: You do so at your own risk. GREYGAR: Ah, you know what they say. "The bigger they are, the harder they fall." GROMPH: Do you know what they say down here? GREYGAR: No, what? GROMPH: "Did Jeggred eat another surface wizard?" The party has established quite a rapport with ol' Grumpy, and he's started treating them less like prisoners and more like pets. Crafty, useful, and highly entertaining pets, but also as pets that must be watched carefully. Why, he may even let them live after all this is done... The party thinks they're coming out on the better end of the deal. They see Gromph as a powerful contact whom they can use to further their goals of lining their pockets with money, their armories with rare and legendary weapons, and their minds with ancient and esoteric knowledge. As the Underdark is still largely unexplored by surface dwellers, they think they can use Menzo like they do the cities on the surface. Set up housekeeping there and go explore the Underdark. They haven't quite figured out which end of the stick they're holding yet. And Gromph is going to keep it that way.
Lord Karsus 06-17-07, 05:49 PM	When did that happen? He just lopes off into the Abyss when the three ladies go into the temple. -A few pages later: Pg. 364. 'Quenthel looked into his red eyes and said, "Farewell, nephew. You are my first sacrifice to the reborn Spider Queen"...The Draegloth's screams made her smile". Lord Karsus Your Lordship? Is that the proper title?:) -Yes, it will do. :cool: [He's still kicking over here. I'm not following the path of the novels. -That's okay. I was just sayin'.
TheDarkPrince 06-18-07, 01:08 AM	I completely forgot about that. Thanks. And sorry.
Lord Karsus 06-18-07, 01:28 AM	-Hey, no problem. Weird things happen. For example, my copy of Daughter of the Drow starts with Chapter Two!
Esnapand 06-18-07, 02:03 PM	And I still don't know if Gromph's eyes are the colour of amber, or red, or pink/yellow checkered... oh my -_- Or is it that his eyes are amber in daylight, but red in infrared spectrum?
Shiftkitty 06-18-07, 03:06 PM	Now, I'd heard they were purple. That's the color we're using in our campaign. In one sourcebook, purple eyes indicate a human somewhere in your near background. This has led to some generational backstory on Gromph involving a little village we named 'Kent', and which happens to be the hometown of one of the PCs. Gromph's obsidian skin crawled when he realized that he and the human rogue might be cousins...
Esnapand 06-18-07, 08:19 PM	I just thought, because in the Starlight and Shadows trilogy his eyes were of an amber colour, while in War of the Spider Queen he was looking for magenta eyes (I believe they were magenta) that were matching his own. That left me with the question what colour his eyes are.
Shiftkitty 06-18-07, 09:24 PM	Isn't magenta kind of a purplish red? http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/3564/magentasi7.png (http://imageshack.us) Maybe in the dark, they kind of look similar. I think this color looks great against obsidian black, anyway.
Shiftkitty 06-18-07, 09:39 PM	http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9286/magentaeyesmc8.jpg (http://imageshack.us) Oh yeah. This is Gromph for me.
The_Shaman 06-19-07, 07:06 AM	The party has established quite a rapport with ol' Grumpy, and he's started treating them less like prisoners and more like pets. Crafty, useful, and highly entertaining pets, but also as pets that must be watched carefully. Why, he may even let them live after all this is done... The party thinks they're coming out on the better end of the deal. They see Gromph as a powerful contact whom they can use to further their goals of lining their pockets with money, their armories with rare and legendary weapons, and their minds with ancient and esoteric knowledge. As the Underdark is still largely unexplored by surface dwellers, they think they can use Menzo like they do the cities on the surface. Set up housekeeping there and go explore the Underdark. They haven't quite figured out which end of the stick they're holding yet. They are tangling with an: - epic level character - archmage - drow, in a drow city - 700-year old scion of the most influential and - I dare say - one of the most incestuous noble families in Menzoberranzan - who, by the way, is the most influential male in the entire city (hence at least a genius politician and master of intrigue) And they are not sure which way the scale is weighed? That's hilarious. I thought you said they used their gray matter every now and then... apparently the last time was a a few times ago :P .
Lord Karsus 06-19-07, 10:10 AM	Or is it that his eyes are amber in daylight, but red in infrared spectrum? -Yes, when a Drow shifts his/her eyes into the infrared spectrum, they do glow a faint red color. That's not especially compatible with 3e Darkvision, but it's established fact, none the less.
Shiftkitty 06-19-07, 10:17 AM	My players might know what Gromph is all about, but they're really good about not metagaming. The PCs have never met him. They know he holds some power, but until now their dealings with the drow have been limited and very shallow. They've engaged raiding parties and know the drow can be vicious, tenacious SOBs, but Gromph and a few commoners are the first ones they've gotten to know a little better. My plan is that by the time they're thoroughly in Gromph's control (debts, favors, etc.), they'll wish they'd never laid eyes on Menzoberranzan. And oh, yes. The perversions of Baenre are scheduled to start showing their ugly heads any time now.
Esnapand 06-19-07, 12:22 PM	-Yes, when a Drow shifts his/her eyes into the infrared spectrum, they do glow a faint red color. That's not especially compatible with 3e Darkvision, but it's established fact, none the less. Ah, just what I've thought. Thank you :)
Shiftkitty 06-19-07, 03:07 PM	So if someone without Darkvision finds himself stuck in the Underdark, would they become aware of a drow presence by their little red peepers glowing in the dark?
Lord Karsus 06-19-07, 03:16 PM	EDIT: Never mind. I misunderstood what you wrote, and repremanded you! But, after reading that again, I realize you don't need to be reprimanded.
Shiftkitty 06-19-07, 08:01 PM	Then I appreciate your withholding of the cat o' nine tails!:D
Esnapand 06-20-07, 10:58 AM	Swooky thought, but I think their eyes aren't glowing THAT much o_O
Shiftkitty 06-20-07, 03:33 PM	I was just thinking that if the Underdark is pitch black, the slightest glow is going to look like a beacon. Although, if the non-drow party is holding a torch or using a light source of some sort, that may hinder their ability to discern much off in the darkness.
Lord Karsus 06-20-07, 06:00 PM	Although, if the non-drow party is holding a torch or using a light source of some sort, that may hinder their ability to discern much off in the darkness. -It says so much in the write-up for Darkvision. And, obviously, a torch is going to throw off infravision as well.
Shiftkitty 06-21-07, 01:15 AM	I really should stop using pronouns. I was thinking that the party would have a hard time seeing the red from the drow eyes if their own area was illuminated, kind of like light from a city obscuring a view of the stars. I know the darkvision would be screwed up. Eh, it's probably a moot point. By the time the drow see you, it's probably too late...
souldnce9 06-21-07, 03:37 AM	One of my favorite hobbies is spelunking. I would like to clear up a few misconceptions. One if they were staring straight at you and wasn’t to far away then yes you could see a slight glow. However I was caving in Carlsbad Caverns (it is a cave that has had trails carved into a good portion of the cave, but if you pay extra they take you into un-commercialized and hidden parts of the cave) and when we finished going through our special tour we exited into the main part of the cave with trails. The caves were closed so all the trail lights were off, and there were no people in the cave but us. Well a group of us ran up ahead on the trail and turned our lights off so we could walk in the complete darkness. Honestly, we could not see the lights of the group we left behind unless they were directly in view. The light did not reflect off much at all. The most surprising thing though was when we got to the elevators. We were walking through the tunnels, turned a corner and suddenly we were next to the generators. I swear we didn’t hear them until we came upon them. So anyway if their eyes glowed very dim, it wouldn’t be enough to see, especially if they were 120ft away. If you like doing underdark adventures I highly suggest going spelunking at least once. Its fun and it gives you a great reference. :D
Shiftkitty 06-21-07, 08:19 AM	Ooh, I am soooo jealous! We went to a small gold mine once, nothing at all like Carlsbad, I suppose, but now that you mention it, it was pretty quiet. Although the cars they took us into the first part on were electric and noiseless except for the sounds of them actually rolling, the sound was kind of 'dead'. I had expected things to echo. They didn't go pitch black with the lighting, but it did get pretty dark. Yeah, the lit up areas highlighting parts of the mine were pretty invisible until you were right up on them. Thanks for illuminating us on that!
souldnce9 06-22-07, 02:48 AM	It is soooooo fun, I can't wait to go again. There is a tour I didn't take called the spidercave. It involves plenty of crawling through extremely tight spaces. The one I mentioned before was called the Hall of the White Giant, because at the end of the cave was a huge room with a gargantuan calcified stalagmite. When we turned our lights off it glowed for a few seconds. Very, very cool. Another thing was traversing the cave, it involved climbing, crawling, chimneying, and in some cases even jumping. Very rarely did we have room to just walk upright. Actually the underdark book is fairly good at describing it, but their is still nothing like experiencing it. What was really gross was these crickets that lived down there that feasted on dried dead flesh. Our guide told us that a scientist fell asleep down their and when he woke he was covered in them. They are harmless.
Shiftkitty 06-22-07, 12:12 PM	LOL I'm afraid I'm a bit on the "full-figured" side for crawling through tiny spaces, although it'd be fun!:) Unfortunately, my husband wouldn't get to go along because of a nasty spinal condition. That part wouldn't be fun.:weep: (There's good advice, marry your best friend and the party never ends!) But we'll enjoy it vicariously through documentaries and other people's accounts of the trips!:cool:
captaincarot 06-22-07, 12:55 PM	i went caving in derbyshire once. these are all little twisty tight muddy mucky holes carved out of the limestone by water. being a 6 foot 2 rugby player at the time and about 17 and a half stone, that's around 250 lbs for you americans. the little tight bits were a bit of a problem. at one point i was squeezing my way through a particularly tight bit, when i got stuck, it took nigh on an hour for the people either side of me to push and pull me through, and the effects of the beer and curry i'd had the night before went down really well with my fellow students. for some reason i never got invited again.:D
Shiftkitty 06-22-07, 03:24 PM	LOL! Oh, criminy! So, in 2e, would that be a save vs. Breath Weapon, only out the other end?