Language of Miyeritar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Language of Miyeritar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Yazzuie
10-01-07, 12:11 PM I'm trying to find what the written and spoken language of ancient Miyeritar was?

I know that in neighboring Illefarn they spoke Seldruin and used the Hamarfae alphabet (found WoTC references) but I don't want to just assume that Miyeritar did as well.
Zanan
10-01-07, 12:16 PM Hard to tell ... and I have never read anyting on that so far. One could asume a dialect of Elven derived from its wild and dark elven population. Of course, you could ask the archdesigner himself over at Candlekeep.
Lord Karsus
10-01-07, 05:49 PM -I'd assume that they spoke a dialect of Elven.
MarkusTay63
10-02-07, 01:45 AM No, no, no... haven't you read the most recent novels?

There weren't any Elves in Miyeritar, just gnomes, centaurs, and other assorted Fäerie creaures.

Maybe they spoke Sharnian... :rolleyes:
danielmayer
10-02-07, 03:48 AM Just saw your signature... sad, very sad I'm lucky I just downloaded the few I need two weeks ago.
After there's much work from you in "your" maps, you could ask WotC for permission? I wondered anyway that those "offical" maps lack of everything... It would be good for WotC to support your maps rather officially - they even could tell where Myth Glaurach really is ;)
Any employee of WotC here in the forums?
Zanan
10-02-07, 05:47 AM No, no, no... haven't you read the most recent novels?

There weren't any Elves in Miyeritar, just gnomes, centaurs, and other assorted Fäerie creaures.

Maybe they spoke Sharnian... :rolleyes:

What? You must have read other novels and lorebooks than me, it seems.
Yazzuie
10-02-07, 09:37 AM No, no, no... haven't you read the most recent novels?

There weren't any Elves in Miyeritar, just gnomes, centaurs, and other assorted Fäerie creaures.

Maybe they spoke Sharnian... :rolleyes:

I'm going to guess that was sarcasm ;)

However, I wouldn't be surprised to see a novel written about some gnome who creates a time travel device, goes back around 30,000 years. Oh and incidentally he happens to be infected with some rare disease (lets call it “spell”) that only affects elves and starts a plague (lets call it the “Spell Plague”) that pretty much wipes them out. So now the area formally known as Miyeritar is inhabited by centaurs, and other assorted Fäerie creatures. :D
MarkusTay63
10-02-07, 12:14 PM What? You must have read other novels and lorebooks than me, it seems.I was under the impression that Miyeritar was a dark Elven culture, which is how it has always been written. In fact, it set-off the Crown Wars with the Illythiir when it was destroyed by the Faerie Elves.

It has now been ret-conned into a Realm with NO Dark Elves... so the Crown Wars obviously never happened. It must be another case of Elven propaganda, when they needlessly slaughtered the Illythiiri Elves of the south just to steal their land. Kind of like what happened to the American Indians when the white man arrived.

I'm glad I read that novel - now I know the real truth. ;)

Just saw your signature... sad, very sad I'm lucky I just downloaded the few I need two weeks ago.
After there's much work from you in "your" maps, you could ask WotC for permission? I wondered anyway that those "offical" maps lack of everything... It would be good for WotC to support your maps rather officially - they even could tell where Myth Glaurach really is ;)
Any employee of WotC here in the forums?My maps will still be hosted at CandleKeep (http://candlekeep.com/), and hopefully at least two more will be posted there today.

Please do NOT blame WotC! They are receiving enough bad press as it is. Deviantart only pulled one map - if Wizards was responsible then they would have ALL been pulled. Since I have NEVER tried to make a profit from their intellectual properties WotC has not bothered me in the least. As most of you know, I included all neccessary disclaimers in my former sig just to make certain everything was on the up-and-up. In fact, I worked WITh designers to perfect several of the maps, so they met with semi-official approval.

It was just the malicious act of some random moron, and nothing more. Unfortunetly, WotC not bothering me is not the same as having their official approval, so therefore anyone can report a copyright infringement and it will stand. For THAT reason, I removed the rest of the maps myself.

It's funny, but I would hazard to guess that at least 50% of the stuff at Deviantart is fan material from novels and games, so any jerk with a lot of free time on his hands could wipe out half the stuff on that site. You could go even further, because 'derivitive' material is against the rules, so technically you could report just about ANY fantasy or sci-fi pic. Since I no longer can trust Deviantart's integrity, I wil give CK (http://candlekeep.com/library/maps.htm#TorilMaps) the exclusive.

After all, any site that continues to support the current incarnation of the Realms deserves at much of our attention right now as possible.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-02-07, 01:45 PM Markus, the novel Blackstaff did not say there were no elves in the City of Hope!

Spoiler:

The dark elves chose to remain Sharn, so as not to become "drow" by default (Corellon's Curse).

Your posts on this are pretty funny, but they are also a bit exaggerated.:)
Lord Karsus
10-02-07, 02:39 PM Your posts on this are pretty funny, but they are also a bit exaggerated.:)

-He tends to do that.
MarkusTay63
10-02-07, 04:09 PM Sorry... I just can't let it go... :(

I obsess sometimes....

I should be more careful - if I keep defending the Dark Elves like I did the Orcs maybe they'll give them a Kingdom as well. :rolleyes:
GothicDan
10-02-07, 05:15 PM Watch out, Markus.

They're in your head.
Zanan
10-02-07, 05:52 PM Sorry... I just can't let it go... :(

I obsess sometimes....

I should be more careful - if I keep defending the Dark Elves like I did the Orcs maybe they'll give them a Kingdom as well. :rolleyes:

Oh yes, please do! Then again, much damage has already been done ... or being ordered.

As for Miyeritar, the wild elves who constituated part of that nation's population are back there, while, as has been sad, the dark elves remained in sharn-form because of Corellon's "curse". Obviously, vast numbers of this nation's population was whiped out during the Dark Disaster.
MarkusTay63
10-02-07, 06:00 PM Yes, all of the important folk weren't brought back.

Just those nasty 'green' things. :P

Watch out, Markus.

They're in your head.No, I've already figured out it's the Evil Monkey in my Closet that's been giving away all of my secrets. ;)
Yazzuie
10-02-07, 06:29 PM Silly question, but is all the Miyeritar lore being mentioned in the Blackstaff book?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-02-07, 06:52 PM Silly question, but is all the Miyeritar lore being mentioned in the Blackstaff book?

If you read the novel, you'll get some tantalizing bits of information, yes.:) However, there still isn't that much lore on the place, overall.
MarkusTay63
10-03-07, 12:23 AM There is next to none on Miyeritar itself.

At least, now that 4e is here, we know why the city was brought back.

Part of the whole 'map changing' protocals of 4e, for sure.
Zanan
10-03-07, 04:49 AM Of course, there is more information in Demihuman Deities (Eilistraee entry), Lost Empires of Faerûn as well as Cormanthyr - Empire of Elves. Not that much, but most likely all that the author used in his book. BTW, Lady Penitent II - Storm of the Dead is also dealing with Miyeritar lore.
Yazzuie
10-03-07, 10:44 AM I've got Demihuman Deities, Cormanthyr - Empire of Elves, and love the Lady Penitent series. But that's the extent of what I've been able to find. I think I'm going to have to read Blackstaff being that it sounds like some things might have been changed. Miyeritar returns??? Yeesh, as if 4E didn't have enough huge changes.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-03-07, 01:31 PM There is next to none on Miyeritar itself.

At least, now that 4e is here, we know why the city was brought back.

Part of the whole 'map changing' protocals of 4e, for sure.

Well, I hope the City of Hope (ha ha!) remains hidden to the world, as it's supposed to be.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-03-07, 01:33 PM Miyeritar returns??? Yeesh, as if 4E didn't have enough huge changes.

Well, one city from Miyeritar was brought back, and as I said above it's supposed to be hidden to the vast majority of the Realms.:) It happened in the Blackstaff novel, which was released July 2006, so it's not one of the new 4E changes.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-03-07, 01:36 PM BTW, Lady Penitent II - Storm of the Dead is also dealing with Miyeritar lore.

True. I sincerely hope that series doesn't bring all of Miyeritar back, or something. One never knows anymore...
HVulpes
10-03-07, 02:32 PM For the language... there is likely a number of languages with Sylvan, an early human language now forgotten and ancient elven being common.

It should also be noted:
During the ceremony, the third circle (i think) made of of people like that Cleric of Oghma educated the people of the ancient city with their collective knowledge which is likely to include languages like Common and Modern Sylvan and Elven.

I hope this helps.
Old Sage
10-04-07, 10:05 PM Steven Schend just replied to Yazzuie's similarly posted question over at Candlekeep:-

"The language would be elvish as a trade/common language taught to centaurs and others working with the two subraces of elves who dominated Miyeritar. If there were other specific languages, there'd probably be at least one lost tongue/written language common ONLY to the High Mages (of which there were far more BEFORE the Vyshanti started hunting and killing them all).

Steven
who never planned to have to detail Miyeritar but he supposes he ought to have some ideas, seeing as he's resurrected some of its denizens....

PS: Dunno if it's mentioned, but I suspect that people can find Kraanfhaor's Door lies open, and an empty chamber lies beyond it after about 1377.... "
GothicDan
10-04-07, 10:59 PM Ha. The Vyshanti. Not Sun Elves, or Aryvandaari. ;)
Lord Karsus
10-04-07, 11:29 PM Ha. The Vyshanti. Not Sun Elves, or Aryvandaari. ;)

-Steve knows, Steve knows...
GothicDan
10-04-07, 11:40 PM I love Schend. I'd totally marry him.

AND he likes comic books.

Mmm, Endsong.
Gray Richardson
10-05-07, 12:19 AM We know the sun and moon elves came from Tintageer in Faerie. They might have spoken Seldruin. Although we do not know if that was a living language at the time they migrated over, or perhaps a long dead language at the time they migrated to the One Land.

Seldruin could have been an ecclesiastical relic. Like church Latin, a formal language of ceremony and High Magic. It might have been the language of Arvandor, the language of the Seldarine, sort of a Celestial Language just for the elven gods and their servitors.

However, the Dark Elves seem to have come from another place. It is possible they were refugees from the world of Threnody, where a mortal Kiaransalee exterminated her race in a necromantic apocalypse during her pre-divine days.

So the tongue of the Dark Elves could be an offshoot of the Threnodeese tongue, which could in turn be one of the "far more" lost tongues extinguished by the Vyshanti that Stephen mentioned.
Markustay
10-05-07, 12:57 AM Ha. The Vyshanti. Not Sun Elves, or Aryvandaari. ;)Much more likely Dark Elves that have been in stasis and were unaffected by the Descent.

Dan, you're being a bit of a polygemist these days. :P

And if he finally gives me my pre-descent dark Elves, I may throw some love his way myself. :dancin:

Totally platonic, of course. ;)
Zanan
10-05-07, 03:53 AM Ha. The Vyshanti. Not Sun Elves, or Aryvandaari. ;)

Well, it was first and foremost the SS who hunted the Jews in WWII, but that did not made most of them any less Nazi nor any less German.
GothicDan
10-05-07, 09:57 AM True. And I'd certainly hope you'd understand where that very same analogy could be made in a very... Offensive and poorly comprehended way.

All rectangles are squares but not all squares are rectangles, mm?
Yazzuie
10-05-07, 01:53 PM First, I like Zanan’s analogy. It’s not a whole people who persecuted Miyeritar, it was a regime (or institution or club, whatever term you like).

Second, in the interest of keeping up with what’s being posted over at Candlekeep, I had a few comments to Steven’s reply and hope for his (or someone’s) input. Here’s the short version;

1 – Assuming the common elvish in Miyeritar is the common elvish of current time, it still would be a bit different being that any living language will change over time and we’re talking a LONG time. However, we’re also talking about elves so I’m guessing that a modern elf would still recognize old Miyeritar writings and be able to read most of it.

2 – The Lost Language of Miyeritar. Being that Sun/Moon and Dark/Green elves do not originate from the same place, I’m guessing that they each had a unique “Lost” language. This is assuming that the languages of the High Mages is the original language spoken by said race.

Along with that, the written alphabet might also be different. However, if the Dark/Green elves had no alphabet at the time that the Sun/Moon elves showed up, they could have borrowed their alphabet. Meaning two different spoken languages using the same alphabet (Japan borrowing Kanji from China).

3 – Assuming that the Lost Language of Miyeritar is not the Seldruin, then the next question would be do the Dark Elves and Green Elves have the same lost language or unique racial languages. The history that I’ve read thus far shows that at least some Dark elves and Green elves lived and worked together, so it might be that there is a historic basis or cooperation between them going back…well a long time. So that might be justification for them sharing the same language.
Markustay
10-05-07, 02:10 PM The original language of the Dark Elves is Dökalfen. :D

At least, before TSR got ahold of them. ;)

Using that, the Illythiir would have spoken a purer dialect, but the Elves of Miyeritar would have had quite a bit of Sylvan influences in their tongue.

Moon Elves would have spoken some Fäerie dialect when they first came over, but then would have immediately taken on Sylvan influences as well.

Gold Elves speak Auld Deutsch. ;) "Sieg Hiel, Mien Coronal" :P
GothicDan
10-05-07, 02:42 PM I'd be offended - but I absolutely love Germanic culture and Gold Elves.

So - rock on golden-haired Germanic Alfir!
Markustay
10-05-07, 02:56 PM LOL :rofl:

Truth be told Dan, I'll be sorry to see them go in 4e. As much as I loved ribbing you about them, they were an integral part of the setting.

Also, in that other thread I did admit that my Warhammer army is ELVEN, which should go a long way in telling you I just love being the Devil's advocate. ;)

I do own quite a few Dark Elven models, though. :devil:
Lord Karsus
10-05-07, 05:03 PM I do own quite a few Dark Elven models, though. :devil:

-Isn't that illegal?
danielmayer
10-05-07, 08:20 PM Gold Elves speak Auld Deutsch. "Sieg Hiel, Mien Coronal"

Don't know what that remark has a meaning...?
"Auld"??? What's that?
"Hiel" should be "Heil" at the least, and "Mien" more like "Mein"...to have the phrase correct, but I'm quite sure it wasn't meant like it sounds. "Sieg Heil" is a phrase only connected to a quite "evil" area in Germany, so you don't want it in conjunction with gold elves, for sure. Whatever
"Heil Coronal" would be allowed in contrary to the phrase above. It is a formal greeting dating back to 17th century, so absolutely ok, that is even standard in todays Austria.

And the alfir (alfr!) are coming from the norsk mythology and thus are not related with golden-haired Germans....
...
in any way...

Aside from that, German culture rocks :)
GothicDan
10-05-07, 08:22 PM Well, the word Alfir itself is Norse, but it'd be silly to insinuate there's no root Germanic cultures that diverged into Northern Germanic (Norse) and Western Germanic.

Mmm. I love the book I'm reading now - the Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity.

I'll edit it to "Germanic Alfir." ;)
MarkusTay63
10-10-07, 12:45 AM It was meant as joke, which Dan (whom it was directed to) obviously got.

Dan is an Elven Nazi. :P

I know you are secretly involved with the Eldrith Veluthra, but you wouldn't also have anything to do with the CCC, would you Dan? :emp:

terrible stuff, that.....
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-10-07, 01:14 PM I'd more upset if he was in the CCC than the EV...
GothicDan
10-10-07, 01:59 PM Well, I do have a hood. But it's black.
MarkusTay63
10-10-07, 02:33 PM Are you sure it's a hood and not a helmet? ;)

"Behold! Gaze upon my wonderous helmet in amazement!" :D
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-10-07, 06:18 PM Well, I do have a hood. But it's black.

Uh oh. That's the color of the CCC...
Lord Karsus
10-11-07, 11:38 PM -I'm...just very...lost...
Zanan
10-12-07, 06:23 AM How about speaking ON TOPIC for a change? :cool:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yazzuie 10-01-07, 12:11 PM	I'm trying to find what the written and spoken language of ancient Miyeritar was? I know that in neighboring Illefarn they spoke Seldruin and used the Hamarfae alphabet (found WoTC references) but I don't want to just assume that Miyeritar did as well.
Zanan 10-01-07, 12:16 PM	Hard to tell ... and I have never read anyting on that so far. One could asume a dialect of Elven derived from its wild and dark elven population. Of course, you could ask the archdesigner himself over at Candlekeep.
Lord Karsus 10-01-07, 05:49 PM	-I'd assume that they spoke a dialect of Elven.
MarkusTay63 10-02-07, 01:45 AM	No, no, no... haven't you read the most recent novels? There weren't any Elves in Miyeritar, just gnomes, centaurs, and other assorted Fäerie creaures. Maybe they spoke Sharnian... :rolleyes:
danielmayer 10-02-07, 03:48 AM	Just saw your signature... sad, very sad I'm lucky I just downloaded the few I need two weeks ago. After there's much work from you in "your" maps, you could ask WotC for permission? I wondered anyway that those "offical" maps lack of everything... It would be good for WotC to support your maps rather officially - they even could tell where Myth Glaurach really is ;) Any employee of WotC here in the forums?
Zanan 10-02-07, 05:47 AM	No, no, no... haven't you read the most recent novels? There weren't any Elves in Miyeritar, just gnomes, centaurs, and other assorted Fäerie creaures. Maybe they spoke Sharnian... :rolleyes: What? You must have read other novels and lorebooks than me, it seems.
Yazzuie 10-02-07, 09:37 AM	No, no, no... haven't you read the most recent novels? There weren't any Elves in Miyeritar, just gnomes, centaurs, and other assorted Fäerie creaures. Maybe they spoke Sharnian... :rolleyes: I'm going to guess that was sarcasm ;) However, I wouldn't be surprised to see a novel written about some gnome who creates a time travel device, goes back around 30,000 years. Oh and incidentally he happens to be infected with some rare disease (lets call it “spell”) that only affects elves and starts a plague (lets call it the “Spell Plague”) that pretty much wipes them out. So now the area formally known as Miyeritar is inhabited by centaurs, and other assorted Fäerie creatures. :D
MarkusTay63 10-02-07, 12:14 PM	What? You must have read other novels and lorebooks than me, it seems.I was under the impression that Miyeritar was a dark Elven culture, which is how it has always been written. In fact, it set-off the Crown Wars with the Illythiir when it was destroyed by the Faerie Elves. It has now been ret-conned into a Realm with NO Dark Elves... so the Crown Wars obviously never happened. It must be another case of Elven propaganda, when they needlessly slaughtered the Illythiiri Elves of the south just to steal their land. Kind of like what happened to the American Indians when the white man arrived. I'm glad I read that novel - now I know the real truth. ;) Just saw your signature... sad, very sad I'm lucky I just downloaded the few I need two weeks ago. After there's much work from you in "your" maps, you could ask WotC for permission? I wondered anyway that those "offical" maps lack of everything... It would be good for WotC to support your maps rather officially - they even could tell where Myth Glaurach really is ;) Any employee of WotC here in the forums?My maps will still be hosted at CandleKeep (http://candlekeep.com/), and hopefully at least two more will be posted there today. Please do NOT blame WotC! They are receiving enough bad press as it is. Deviantart only pulled one map - if Wizards was responsible then they would have ALL been pulled. Since I have NEVER tried to make a profit from their intellectual properties WotC has not bothered me in the least. As most of you know, I included all neccessary disclaimers in my former sig just to make certain everything was on the up-and-up. In fact, I worked WITh designers to perfect several of the maps, so they met with semi-official approval. It was just the malicious act of some random moron, and nothing more. Unfortunetly, WotC not bothering me is not the same as having their official approval, so therefore anyone can report a copyright infringement and it will stand. For THAT reason, I removed the rest of the maps myself. It's funny, but I would hazard to guess that at least 50% of the stuff at Deviantart is fan material from novels and games, so any jerk with a lot of free time on his hands could wipe out half the stuff on that site. You could go even further, because 'derivitive' material is against the rules, so technically you could report just about ANY fantasy or sci-fi pic. Since I no longer can trust Deviantart's integrity, I wil give CK (http://candlekeep.com/library/maps.htm#TorilMaps) the exclusive. After all, any site that continues to support the current incarnation of the Realms deserves at much of our attention right now as possible.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-02-07, 01:45 PM	Markus, the novel Blackstaff did not say there were no elves in the City of Hope! Spoiler: The dark elves chose to remain Sharn, so as not to become "drow" by default (Corellon's Curse). Your posts on this are pretty funny, but they are also a bit exaggerated.:)
Lord Karsus 10-02-07, 02:39 PM	Your posts on this are pretty funny, but they are also a bit exaggerated.:) -He tends to do that.
MarkusTay63 10-02-07, 04:09 PM	Sorry... I just can't let it go... :( I obsess sometimes.... I should be more careful - if I keep defending the Dark Elves like I did the Orcs maybe they'll give them a Kingdom as well. :rolleyes:
GothicDan 10-02-07, 05:15 PM	Watch out, Markus. They're in your head.
Zanan 10-02-07, 05:52 PM	Sorry... I just can't let it go... :( I obsess sometimes.... I should be more careful - if I keep defending the Dark Elves like I did the Orcs maybe they'll give them a Kingdom as well. :rolleyes: Oh yes, please do! Then again, much damage has already been done ... or being ordered. As for Miyeritar, the wild elves who constituated part of that nation's population are back there, while, as has been sad, the dark elves remained in sharn-form because of Corellon's "curse". Obviously, vast numbers of this nation's population was whiped out during the Dark Disaster.
MarkusTay63 10-02-07, 06:00 PM	Yes, all of the important folk weren't brought back. Just those nasty 'green' things. :P Watch out, Markus. They're in your head.No, I've already figured out it's the Evil Monkey in my Closet that's been giving away all of my secrets. ;)
Yazzuie 10-02-07, 06:29 PM	Silly question, but is all the Miyeritar lore being mentioned in the Blackstaff book?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-02-07, 06:52 PM	Silly question, but is all the Miyeritar lore being mentioned in the Blackstaff book? If you read the novel, you'll get some tantalizing bits of information, yes.:) However, there still isn't that much lore on the place, overall.
MarkusTay63 10-03-07, 12:23 AM	There is next to none on Miyeritar itself. At least, now that 4e is here, we know why the city was brought back. Part of the whole 'map changing' protocals of 4e, for sure.
Zanan 10-03-07, 04:49 AM	Of course, there is more information in Demihuman Deities (Eilistraee entry), Lost Empires of Faerûn as well as Cormanthyr - Empire of Elves. Not that much, but most likely all that the author used in his book. BTW, Lady Penitent II - Storm of the Dead is also dealing with Miyeritar lore.
Yazzuie 10-03-07, 10:44 AM	I've got Demihuman Deities, Cormanthyr - Empire of Elves, and love the Lady Penitent series. But that's the extent of what I've been able to find. I think I'm going to have to read Blackstaff being that it sounds like some things might have been changed. Miyeritar returns??? Yeesh, as if 4E didn't have enough huge changes.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-03-07, 01:31 PM	There is next to none on Miyeritar itself. At least, now that 4e is here, we know why the city was brought back. Part of the whole 'map changing' protocals of 4e, for sure. Well, I hope the City of Hope (ha ha!) remains hidden to the world, as it's supposed to be.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-03-07, 01:33 PM	Miyeritar returns??? Yeesh, as if 4E didn't have enough huge changes. Well, one city from Miyeritar was brought back, and as I said above it's supposed to be hidden to the vast majority of the Realms.:) It happened in the Blackstaff novel, which was released July 2006, so it's not one of the new 4E changes.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-03-07, 01:36 PM	BTW, Lady Penitent II - Storm of the Dead is also dealing with Miyeritar lore. True. I sincerely hope that series doesn't bring all of Miyeritar back, or something. One never knows anymore...
HVulpes 10-03-07, 02:32 PM	For the language... there is likely a number of languages with Sylvan, an early human language now forgotten and ancient elven being common. It should also be noted: During the ceremony, the third circle (i think) made of of people like that Cleric of Oghma educated the people of the ancient city with their collective knowledge which is likely to include languages like Common and Modern Sylvan and Elven. I hope this helps.
Old Sage 10-04-07, 10:05 PM	Steven Schend just replied to Yazzuie's similarly posted question over at Candlekeep:- "The language would be elvish as a trade/common language taught to centaurs and others working with the two subraces of elves who dominated Miyeritar. If there were other specific languages, there'd probably be at least one lost tongue/written language common ONLY to the High Mages (of which there were far more BEFORE the Vyshanti started hunting and killing them all). Steven who never planned to have to detail Miyeritar but he supposes he ought to have some ideas, seeing as he's resurrected some of its denizens.... PS: Dunno if it's mentioned, but I suspect that people can find Kraanfhaor's Door lies open, and an empty chamber lies beyond it after about 1377.... "
GothicDan 10-04-07, 10:59 PM	Ha. The Vyshanti. Not Sun Elves, or Aryvandaari. ;)
Lord Karsus 10-04-07, 11:29 PM	Ha. The Vyshanti. Not Sun Elves, or Aryvandaari. ;) -Steve knows, Steve knows...
GothicDan 10-04-07, 11:40 PM	I love Schend. I'd totally marry him. AND he likes comic books. Mmm, Endsong.
Gray Richardson 10-05-07, 12:19 AM	We know the sun and moon elves came from Tintageer in Faerie. They might have spoken Seldruin. Although we do not know if that was a living language at the time they migrated over, or perhaps a long dead language at the time they migrated to the One Land. Seldruin could have been an ecclesiastical relic. Like church Latin, a formal language of ceremony and High Magic. It might have been the language of Arvandor, the language of the Seldarine, sort of a Celestial Language just for the elven gods and their servitors. However, the Dark Elves seem to have come from another place. It is possible they were refugees from the world of Threnody, where a mortal Kiaransalee exterminated her race in a necromantic apocalypse during her pre-divine days. So the tongue of the Dark Elves could be an offshoot of the Threnodeese tongue, which could in turn be one of the "far more" lost tongues extinguished by the Vyshanti that Stephen mentioned.
Markustay 10-05-07, 12:57 AM	Ha. The Vyshanti. Not Sun Elves, or Aryvandaari. ;)Much more likely Dark Elves that have been in stasis and were unaffected by the Descent. Dan, you're being a bit of a polygemist these days. :P And if he finally gives me my pre-descent dark Elves, I may throw some love his way myself. :dancin: Totally platonic, of course. ;)
Zanan 10-05-07, 03:53 AM	Ha. The Vyshanti. Not Sun Elves, or Aryvandaari. ;) Well, it was first and foremost the SS who hunted the Jews in WWII, but that did not made most of them any less Nazi nor any less German.
GothicDan 10-05-07, 09:57 AM	True. And I'd certainly hope you'd understand where that very same analogy could be made in a very... Offensive and poorly comprehended way. All rectangles are squares but not all squares are rectangles, mm?
Yazzuie 10-05-07, 01:53 PM	First, I like Zanan’s analogy. It’s not a whole people who persecuted Miyeritar, it was a regime (or institution or club, whatever term you like). Second, in the interest of keeping up with what’s being posted over at Candlekeep, I had a few comments to Steven’s reply and hope for his (or someone’s) input. Here’s the short version; 1 – Assuming the common elvish in Miyeritar is the common elvish of current time, it still would be a bit different being that any living language will change over time and we’re talking a LONG time. However, we’re also talking about elves so I’m guessing that a modern elf would still recognize old Miyeritar writings and be able to read most of it. 2 – The Lost Language of Miyeritar. Being that Sun/Moon and Dark/Green elves do not originate from the same place, I’m guessing that they each had a unique “Lost” language. This is assuming that the languages of the High Mages is the original language spoken by said race. Along with that, the written alphabet might also be different. However, if the Dark/Green elves had no alphabet at the time that the Sun/Moon elves showed up, they could have borrowed their alphabet. Meaning two different spoken languages using the same alphabet (Japan borrowing Kanji from China). 3 – Assuming that the Lost Language of Miyeritar is not the Seldruin, then the next question would be do the Dark Elves and Green Elves have the same lost language or unique racial languages. The history that I’ve read thus far shows that at least some Dark elves and Green elves lived and worked together, so it might be that there is a historic basis or cooperation between them going back…well a long time. So that might be justification for them sharing the same language.
Markustay 10-05-07, 02:10 PM	The original language of the Dark Elves is Dökalfen. :D At least, before TSR got ahold of them. ;) Using that, the Illythiir would have spoken a purer dialect, but the Elves of Miyeritar would have had quite a bit of Sylvan influences in their tongue. Moon Elves would have spoken some Fäerie dialect when they first came over, but then would have immediately taken on Sylvan influences as well. Gold Elves speak Auld Deutsch. ;) "Sieg Hiel, Mien Coronal" :P
GothicDan 10-05-07, 02:42 PM	I'd be offended - but I absolutely love Germanic culture and Gold Elves. So - rock on golden-haired Germanic Alfir!
Markustay 10-05-07, 02:56 PM	LOL :rofl: Truth be told Dan, I'll be sorry to see them go in 4e. As much as I loved ribbing you about them, they were an integral part of the setting. Also, in that other thread I did admit that my Warhammer army is ELVEN, which should go a long way in telling you I just love being the Devil's advocate. ;) I do own quite a few Dark Elven models, though. :devil:
Lord Karsus 10-05-07, 05:03 PM	I do own quite a few Dark Elven models, though. :devil: -Isn't that illegal?
danielmayer 10-05-07, 08:20 PM	Gold Elves speak Auld Deutsch. "Sieg Hiel, Mien Coronal" Don't know what that remark has a meaning...? "Auld"??? What's that? "Hiel" should be "Heil" at the least, and "Mien" more like "Mein"...to have the phrase correct, but I'm quite sure it wasn't meant like it sounds. "Sieg Heil" is a phrase only connected to a quite "evil" area in Germany, so you don't want it in conjunction with gold elves, for sure. Whatever "Heil Coronal" would be allowed in contrary to the phrase above. It is a formal greeting dating back to 17th century, so absolutely ok, that is even standard in todays Austria. And the alfir (alfr!) are coming from the norsk mythology and thus are not related with golden-haired Germans.... ... in any way... Aside from that, German culture rocks :)
GothicDan 10-05-07, 08:22 PM	Well, the word Alfir itself is Norse, but it'd be silly to insinuate there's no root Germanic cultures that diverged into Northern Germanic (Norse) and Western Germanic. Mmm. I love the book I'm reading now - the Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity. I'll edit it to "Germanic Alfir." ;)
MarkusTay63 10-10-07, 12:45 AM	It was meant as joke, which Dan (whom it was directed to) obviously got. Dan is an Elven Nazi. :P I know you are secretly involved with the Eldrith Veluthra, but you wouldn't also have anything to do with the CCC, would you Dan? :emp: terrible stuff, that.....
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-10-07, 01:14 PM	I'd more upset if he was in the CCC than the EV...
GothicDan 10-10-07, 01:59 PM	Well, I do have a hood. But it's black.
MarkusTay63 10-10-07, 02:33 PM	Are you sure it's a hood and not a helmet? ;) "Behold! Gaze upon my wonderous helmet in amazement!" :D
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-10-07, 06:18 PM	Well, I do have a hood. But it's black. Uh oh. That's the color of the CCC...
Lord Karsus 10-11-07, 11:38 PM	-I'm...just very...lost...
Zanan 10-12-07, 06:23 AM	How about speaking ON TOPIC for a change? :cool: