| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| creyzi4zb1202-14-07, 11:11 PM | WHo is the Magister of Faerun right now? I don't think it's Elminster. Who's more powerful if Elminster battles against the Magister? |
| Old Sage02-14-07, 11:36 PM | Talatha Vaerovree of Innarlith is the current Magister. See 2e Secrets of the Magister tome and Magic of Faerun. Talatha's 3e stats are in Magic of Faerun but there's actually a better write-up for her in the Secrets of the Magister tome. |
| Lord Karsus02-15-07, 12:06 AM | I don't think it's Elminster. -Elminster never was a Magister. Who's more powerful if Elminster battles against the Magister? -The two would never come to blows, so don't worry about it. |
| Stigger02-15-07, 03:39 AM | Well... if he really is Fzoul's father and joins the darkside of the weave... or something equally cheesy and implausible... he might then. Okay, so I'm not really buying it either, but it could happen... no more absurd as some of the other things happening lately really. |
| MaskedOne02-15-07, 07:45 PM | WHo is the Magister of Faerun right now? I don't think it's Elminster. Who's more powerful if Elminster battles against the Magister? Barring extreme circumstances, Chosen won't fight magisters, period. This is pretty much a divine edict. There isn't a whole lot of edict. However, this magister and many of her predecessors are weaker in Art than most Chosen. |
| BloodofNumenor02-15-07, 07:52 PM | What do magisters do anyways? |
| Old Sage02-15-07, 08:53 PM | The Magister is, basically, the personal champion of Mystra. They are magic users (only one Magister can exist at a time) selected by Azuth and then Mystra to promote the Art -- through both the tasks they are each directed to perform and their individual mastery of magic -- in the Realms. |
| Stigger02-15-07, 08:53 PM | Encourage the growth and spread of magic... and whatever other pet projects they choose to adopt. It's a pretty nebulously defined position really. |
| Lord Karsus02-16-07, 12:06 AM | What do magisters do anyways? -If you have access to it, see the aptly titled 2e sourcebook Secrets of the Magister. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-22-07, 01:40 AM | -If you have access to it, see the aptly titled 2e sourcebook Secrets of the Magister. I prefer the Magister as presented in Secrets of the Magister. Compared to how its currently presented. Seemed more real the old way. |
| Stigger02-22-07, 01:52 AM | Why would any deity like Mystra choose their appointed champion through attrition? That's the part that never made any sense to me... it was a horribly cruel and inefficient way to choose someone who was supposed to be the champion of magic to my mind. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-22-07, 02:05 AM | Why would any deity like Mystra choose their appointed champion through attrition? That's the part that never made any sense to me... it was a horribly cruel and inefficient way to choose someone who was supposed to be the champion of magic to my mind. Well everyone has their own opinion. I think that the attrition method made more sense. Magic is something of wonder and mystery. By its very nature chaotic. Controlling it is risky and dangerous work. Only the strongest and most daring should gain the title of Magister. Strength and knowledge through adversity! We have been having this conversation on another thread for several days now. There has yet to be a consensus. |
| ravennight02-22-07, 02:16 AM | I have been doing write-ups on some of the magisters in the Characters of the Realms thread, and I love the whole wizard class and try to include as many of the variatable options from Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, blahblahblah that I can because who needs cookiecutter Wiz15/Acm5. Anyhow, yeah the whole challenge thing was meant to keep the strongest going, although so many of them ended up being gready and self-serving, as in the really really big picture I guess they all served some purpose to Mystra and Azuth. You got a lot of power hungry mages who then went about destroying all their rivals. I think what is interesting is what is the difference between the Magister and the Chosen, which I'm sure I've seen in another thread. First off, the magister isn't immortal, as many grew too feable to fend off attacks or just to keep going. Also, why is the Magister Mystra's Champion when she already has Chosen to act as champions, chosen who do a MUCH better job at promoting magic. The Chosen also serve the purpose of holding a portion of her power, but they are much stronger in Art than most Magisters, and presumedly, that's the point. Chosen are meant to stay around and do the long term realms shaping stuff while the Magister is to promote the invention and spread of magic in whatever way she or he can. I think the test by fire way of gaining the office and keeping the office also is supposed to promote the crafting of new spells and magic as the Magister scrambles to defend her or himself. As Anya said in the 7th season of Buffy, brutal life and sharp sharp knives...or something like that. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-22-07, 02:22 AM | I have been doing write-ups on some of the magisters in the Characters of the Realms thread, and I love the whole wizard class and try to include as many of the variatable options from Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, blahblahblah that I can because who needs cookiecutter Wiz15/Acm5. Anyhow, yeah the whole challenge thing was meant to keep the strongest going, although so many of them ended up being gready and self-serving, as in the really really big picture I guess they all served some purpose to Mystra and Azuth. You got a lot of power hungry mages who then went about destroying all their rivals. I think what is interesting is what is the difference between the Magister and the Chosen, which I'm sure I've seen in another thread. First off, the magister isn't immortal, as many grew too feable to fend off attacks or just to keep going. Also, why is the Magister Mystra's Champion when she already has Chosen to act as champions, chosen who do a MUCH better job at promoting magic. The Chosen also serve the purpose of holding a portion of her power, but they are much stronger in Art than most Magisters, and presumedly, that's the point. Chosen are meant to stay around and do the long term realms shaping stuff while the Magister is to promote the invention and spread of magic in whatever way she or he can. I think the test by fire way of gaining the office and keeping the office also is supposed to promote the crafting of new spells and magic as the Magister scrambles to defend her or himself. As Anya said in the 7th season of Buffy, brutal life and sharp sharp knives...or something like that. Adversity breeds strength and intelligence. The old Magister system ensured the strongest most capable mage held the office. Whether he was evil or not didn’t matter to the old Mystra. It only mattered that they spread the use of magic, which some of the evil ones did very well. Who wants to be Magister now? Even if you kill the current Magister Azuth will just run off and give the office to his next pet project. Really silly. |
| Stigger02-22-07, 02:33 AM | I would completely disagree with that line of reasoning... runs contrary to my entire worldview. But, there's no real way to resolve such a fundamental disagreement, so agreeing to disagree on the matter is probably the best we can hope for on the matter. |
| ElberethSilverleaf02-22-07, 02:37 AM | Please not the whole "adversity breeds excellence" schtick. It's being beaten to death in another thread already... Is Secrets of the Magister a 3e or 2e book? |
| MarkusTay6302-22-07, 02:53 AM | Please not the whole "adversity breeds excellence" schtick. It's being beaten to death in another thread already... Is Secrets of the Magister a 3e or 2e book?2e, and it made perfect sense back then. Nowadays, the chosen do a better job of being Magister then the Magister does. I mean, whats the point of having both? Just call the Magister 'the Chosen of Azuth' and be done with it. 3.5 is getting as rules-heavy as older editions, gods do not need several different kinds of emmissaries each. And only Mystra should have 'chosen'. Each god should have a different name for their mortal champions; calling them all 'chosen' is just wrong, and goes against what we know from 2e. Every god should have a 'Champion' template that works basically the same way, but they should each have a differewnt NAME for it. One set of rules, but names for FLAVOR. No 'chosen of this', 'thrall of that' nonsense. A devine minion is a devine minion, and a CHOSEN is Mystra minion, end of story. Just my take, sorry. |
| boards02-22-07, 03:45 AM | Do magisters gain any benefits from Mystra or Azuth:confused: |
| Stigger02-22-07, 07:46 AM | Tons... more than the Chosen in some respects, less in others. Magic of Faerun lists all the details for 3.x as far as I know. Dunno if it's been updated or not. Feels a bit nerfed (for lack of a better term), along with the Chosen template though... not sure why, maybe it's the reduction to a few base bonuses and stats rather than the explanation we got in 2e. |
| herceg02-22-07, 08:12 AM | I wouldn't say that every Magister was inferior in power or influence compared to the Chosen - and indeed, some of their "pet projects" still effect current day Faerun. Think of the one that made those special families with strong magical bloodlines. Their influence is subtler than those of the Chosen, but it is still there. The powers of the Magister were seriously lowered compared to 2e. For example, the Magister was capable of casting perfectly - her/his spell having EXACTLY the desired effect, i.e any variable effect was decided by the Magister when casting a spell (damage, range, etc.). The Magister also had the power to temporaly alter the effect of certain spells to that of another (i.e. every fireball cast on Faerun would have the effect of Feather fall) - this could be done only lightly and for the right cause (Mystra would have looked upon abuse unfavorably). As the Secrets of the Magister wrote about this, the Chosen were Mystra's special agents, doing missions for her. The Magister was an icon, a "goal" (to be the Magister of Mystra, greatest of mages); Mystra (or Azuth) never told Magisters what to do (only what could they do). They were relatively free of divine influence (if they weren't overtly evil or lazy), able to follow their own business in promoting magic. |
| GothicDan02-22-07, 10:49 AM | 2e, and it made perfect sense back then. No, no it didn't. |
| MaskedOne02-22-07, 11:01 AM | Even the evil had some freedom. The only one I remember off hand that Mystra really took offense at was the one who assaulted anything remotely dealing with magic up to and including multiple temples of Azuth and Mystra. His flight spell failed suddenly but most of the rest had a decent degree of freedom regardless of alignment. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-22-07, 07:55 PM | I would completely disagree with that line of reasoning... runs contrary to my entire worldview. But, there's no real way to resolve such a fundamental disagreement, so agreeing to disagree on the matter is probably the best we can hope for on the matter. Well I’ve been in the military for 11 years so my world view may be eschewed.:D I’ve seen a lot of this world so I may be biased. However I believe the 2nd edition writers had some reasoning for making the winning of the Magister's office a duel to the death. Who knows!? It just made more sense to me.:cool: |
| MaskedOne02-22-07, 08:14 PM | Well I’ve been in the military for 11 years so my world view may be eschewed.:D I’ve seen a lot of this world so I may be biased. However I believe the 2nd edition writers had some reasoning for making the winning of the Magister's office a duel to the death. Who knows!? It just made more sense to me.:cool: Technically, the duel did not need to be fatal. It just normally came out that way. There were some other oddities. Killing a newly selected Magister for instance could be exceedingly difficult. Eh well, I just enjoyed the dragon magister and to some degree the beholder. |
| Lord Karsus02-22-07, 08:16 PM | ...and to some degree the beholder. -Kind of difficult to proliferate magic when you can't even keep your dominant eye open...;) |
| GothicDan02-22-07, 08:17 PM | Well I’ve been in the military for 11 years so my world view may be eschewed. I’ve seen a lot of this world so I may be biased. We've all seen a lot of this world. We just have seen different ASPECTS of it. ;) |
| Stigger02-23-07, 03:21 AM | Very different aspects... spent most of my early life on the lovely streets of San Francisco trying to avoid getting killed by skinheads and bangers, or in nightclubs. Those guys just loved conflict and certainly didn't get any smarter or stronger once the Sharps showed up. Well, you could argue that they did get a little smarter when they figured out messing with the little freaky goths just wasn't worth the trouble when they were in groups. We were a lot meaner back then than the current crop seems to be. To be honest, the only thing I ever saw conflict and adversity breed was broken people and even more broken dreams. It was ugly, and I hate ugly with a burning red passion. |
| ravennight02-23-07, 11:41 AM | I think there are pros and cons to both ways of attaining the office, and remember Azuth infrequently wouldn't award the office to the winner of a challenge, and instead choose a different caster, so it hasn't changed ALL that much. I think a challenge keeps a magister on his or her toes, and makes them strong, I think that the other way is very good at nurturing young, Numea was much better at the nurturing way than the challenging way. Both have a way of inspiring, since young people who see the fantastic feats of a Magister might go on to be mages, and adversely a careful teacher can inspire young people also. Both usually result in creation of new magic, one way or another. I also think it is an interesting idea calling the chosen of other gods Champions or some other title. Also...I think that the Magister is fulfilling her job well, but the current Mystra I think uses the Magister as more of a Chosen then the past one did, as Chosen are for special projects and whatnot that deal with other things than the spread of magic. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-23-07, 02:09 PM | Very different aspects... spent most of my early life on the lovely streets of San Francisco trying to avoid getting killed by skinheads and bangers, or in nightclubs. Those guys just loved conflict and certainly didn't get any smarter or stronger once the Sharps showed up. Well, you could argue that they did get a little smarter when they figured out messing with the little freaky goths just wasn't worth the trouble when they were in groups. We were a lot meaner back then than the current crop seems to be. To be honest, the only thing I ever saw conflict and adversity breed was broken people and even more broken dreams. It was ugly, and I hate ugly with a burning red passion. Well I’m looking at it from a world history stand point, personal experience, and what little I know from my undergrad psych degree. Humans are creatures of conflict. I mean look at the competitive nature of our culture. Sports and being the best and all. That out look has benefited the US economically and politically. Look at world history. Conflict and adversity has brought much sorrow, but even more progress and peace. Adversity breeds strength and growth. If I can’t convince you try these guys. Someone has always said it better. Of course you can find a snazzy quote for almost any view point. If you can find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere. ~Frank A. Clark~ I exhort you also to take part in the great combat, which is the combat of life, and greater than every other earthly conflict. ~Plato~ Only the dead have seen the end of the war. ~Plato~ Believe me! The secret of reaping the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment from life is to live dangerously! ~Friedrich Nietzsche~ |
| Stigger02-23-07, 02:45 PM | Not sure how you're coming to that conclusion historically. Generally speaking the greatest strides in technology that benefitted the world came out of 'civilian' studies rather than armed conflict. Just take a look at the Rennaisance... certainly armed conflict helped in that when the Crusaders sacked the middle east, they brought back books for the more scholarly types to study and learn from, but that was more the result of pillage and plunder than any desire to learn. They did more to retard our progress than they did to help it... it wasn't until the Rennaisance and the birth of the scientific revolution and humanism came about that we started making steady, if slow progress in our understanding of the world, and certainly not until an age of relative peace after the last gasp of old world nobility (WW2, which was really just a continuation of WW1 after a short pause given the conditions that the treaty of Versailles set up) that we really started running in our progress and advancement. Certainly the Cold War spurred a great deal of progress, but that was more due to it providing a motive to progress than some intrinsic benefit conflict provides. We were attempting to avoid a conflict there, not simply preparing for one, so I would say that desire of peace was as strong a motivator in that process as anything else. I would suggest Dr. John Pina Craven's book The Silent War for a very good look into how that advancement worked, considering he helped make a lot of those advances as one of the architects behind the development of the Polaris SLBM program, among others. |
| ravennight02-23-07, 03:02 PM | Also, I think that there are countries, even in Europe, that are less competition driven that still make great advances in science and art. I'm not sure I'm really interested in the whole debate, but i do have to say that i think alot of the advancements that come out of conflict are in the resolution of conflict. The Revolutionary War didn't actually creat our nation, it was the attempts by the free thinkers to create a government that truly represented their countrymen that freed our nation, we were free in our minds even if the English claimed sovereignty. The League of Nations came out of the rebuilding of peace after WWI with Woodrow Wilson trying to create a system that would prevent that level of war in the future, and the same happened with the UN after WWII. Although we did develope nuclear and hydrogen technologies from weapons, it wasn't until long after the weapons had been first developed that those technologies were turned to the betterment of people, plus, you could argue that the dangers of nuclear technologies far outweigh any benefit we get from it. So...I think it's a balance and not necessarily this or that. Sorry if that seems simple, but nothing is one way or the other, there's always a mix. |
| ravennight02-23-07, 03:05 PM | Oh, and back to the original purpose of the thread, I am posting write-ups that I'm doing of important or famous Magisters in the Characters of the Realms thread, you are welcome to take a peek, I use the template from Magic of Faerun, plus alot of the varietable prestige classes and feats from many sources. While it would seem that 3.5 is rules heavy, you can pick and choose which rules to use, and I really like the variety of possibilities. One of the problems I had with 2nd ed. was that it didn't have any explanation for some things, or they were so vague it was hard to actually design it yourself or use it in game play. 3.5 is great because you do have stats and rules in place, whether you use them or not. I will also be starting a thread soon in the Magic/Spells of the Realms section of Magic of the Magisters. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-23-07, 03:19 PM | So what does the Magister do now that they don’t have to worry about other Mages coming after them? Pick their nose? |
| Stigger02-23-07, 03:22 PM | Teach magic, encourage its spread, help out those who have the potential to use Art and foster it in them, lessen the fear common folk have of magic by showing them the benefit, work on some pet project... if anything it's become more of a full-time job than it used to be. |
| ravennight02-23-07, 04:08 PM | Lessen the fear of magic. There are so many who use magic as power and hold it over the common people, such as in Thay, that places like Luthcheq are openly hostile toward magic and wizards, and it is just as important to encourage people who have talent and are willing to use it to fight off orcs and monsters, to help with crops and construction in villages, improve water systems and infrastructure, and to spread learning and tolerance instead of the violence and power mongering of Thay, the Moonsea, and other groups and realms. Those are probably the biggest obstacles to the spread of magic. |
| ElberethSilverleaf02-23-07, 05:48 PM | Kind of off topic... I had a mage/cleric character that I retired. Before retiring him I had him build a magic academy for the poor near Waterdeep. He finds extremely intelligent kids from the poor & working class and gives them free instruction in the magical arts. The school is set up like a boarding school, and students from families that could afford instruction are never accepted. I could see a magister funding such schools throughout Faerun to promote widespread acceptance and use of magic. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-23-07, 06:21 PM | Wow. So now the Magister is just as uninteresting as mud. Do you mean to tell me the Magister is doing the same thing that Mystra’s church is supposed to do? I mean she has plenty of priests for that crap. Sounds to me like the current incarnation has no place in the world. The champion of Mystra has no one to fight. No adversity to overcome that the priesthood couldn’t handle. The office seems silly and inconsequential without the added danger off hunting or being hunted by other Mages!!!! |
| Stigger02-23-07, 06:45 PM | Well... if you look at the longer term picture, teaching others to appreciate and use the weave over the turning to the shadow weave is a pretty damned good strategy for her and her champion. Wars aren't just fought on battlefields afterall. Getting the good will of the masses, and coloring their view of how magic should be is going to pay off in the long run more than having a bunch of mages blasting each other and everything around them to dust. All that's going to accomplish is getting people afraid of magic and its users, and certainly going to harm magic in the long run as more and more people grow more and more afraid of it. Sure, it would be good for combat magic in the short term, but it's not exactly going to get all but the most aggressive and combat oriented of mages involved in the Art. And those aren't the guys who truly shape the future of magic, just the ones who are remembered the most, and not often in a good way. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-23-07, 07:04 PM | Well... if you look at the longer term picture, teaching others to appreciate and use the weave over the turning to the shadow weave is a pretty damned good strategy for her and her champion. Wars aren't just fought on battlefields afterall. Getting the good will of the masses, and coloring their view of how magic should be is going to pay off in the long run more than having a bunch of mages blasting each other and everything around them to dust. All that's going to accomplish is getting people afraid of magic and its users, and certainly going to harm magic in the long run as more and more people grow more and more afraid of it. Sure, it would be good for combat magic in the short term, but it's not exactly going to get all but the most aggressive and combat oriented of mages involved in the Art. And those aren't the guys who truly shape the future of magic, just the ones who are remembered the most, and not often in a good way. Well in your opinion yes. But look at Elminster. He likes to call himself a Sage, but look how many combat oriented spells bear his name. I would argue magical combat is one of the prime movers of Magical innovation! Maybe I should make a Demigod of Magical combat in service to both Mystra and Tempus! |
| Stigger02-23-07, 07:16 PM | Only spells that I can think of off the top of my head that bear his name are abjurative spells, one of which is obviously suited to combat (Effulgent Epuration) and the other is more like a very souped up version of a contingency spell (Evasion) that certainly has uses outside of combat. I was always left with the impression he despised combat, and preferred to get it over with as quickly as possible so he could get back to doing something useful. |
| Boda02-23-07, 07:27 PM | But if the chosen are mightier then tthe magister, then he isnt the mightiest mage around. Magisters are usually wizards, correct? Well, to promote magic, why not a cleric, or a bard? |
| Stigger02-23-07, 07:33 PM | Nowhere does it say the magister is the mightiest mage around, that's just the common perception of the office, but certainly not a requirement of it. As to why not a cleric, they already serve Mystra in their own way as it is, so why would they bother? I don't think it would really be allowed anyway, as they're divine casters, not arcane, which is kinda the point of the office. Nothing says a bard or sorcerer couldn't though, beyond the fact that they never have, particularly since sorcerers are a relatively recent development in the ruleset. They're both arcane casters, so theoretically the office should be open to them. |
| ravennight02-23-07, 07:49 PM | The magister wouldn't ALWAYS do the nurturing, she or he would still be responsible for dealing with magic that was too dangerous to let loose or taking down wizards whose magical activities he or she deems harmful to the spread of magic in general, such as wizards hunting down and slaying lower level wizards or talented youth to dominate an area. She just isn't ALWAYS doing that, in her downtime she teaches young people and helps the poor, but she also infiltrates the towers of corrupt wizards and steals spells too valuable to keep secret, and then make copies to pass on to many wizards, and to pilfer important spellbooks or items from hordes of dragons to make copies and then slip them back in. Or to destry mages using their magic to experiment on the local population, twisting them in some way into something corrupt. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-23-07, 09:00 PM | The magister wouldn't ALWAYS do the nurturing, she or he would still be responsible for dealing with magic that was too dangerous to let loose or taking down wizards whose magical activities he or she deems harmful to the spread of magic in general, such as wizards hunting down and slaying lower level wizards or talented youth to dominate an area. She just isn't ALWAYS doing that, in her downtime she teaches young people and helps the poor, but she also infiltrates the towers of corrupt wizards and steals spells too valuable to keep secret, and then make copies to pass on to many wizards, and to pilfer important spellbooks or items from hordes of dragons to make copies and then slip them back in. Or to destry mages using their magic to experiment on the local population, twisting them in some way into something corrupt. Ahh so there is a reason to kill the Magister! |
| ElberethSilverleaf02-23-07, 10:29 PM | Wow. So now the Magister is just as uninteresting as mud. Do you mean to tell me the Magister is doing the same thing that Mystra’s church is supposed to do? I mean she has plenty of priests for that crap. Sounds to me like the current incarnation has no place in the world. The champion of Mystra has no one to fight. No adversity to overcome that the priesthood couldn’t handle. The office seems silly and inconsequential without the added danger off hunting or being hunted by other Mages!!!! You call it uninteresting because you have a particular axe to grind, ie. your world view. Watching wizards destroy everything around themselves in stupid bids for power and constantly fighting is going to make most people distrust if not outright hate magicusers. |
| MaskedOne02-23-07, 11:01 PM | I found it amusing that under the old rules, a PC could theoretically challenge for the post of magister and get it. Beyond that, well there were advantages long term to the old method and the conflict it caused but there are other ways to create conflict and spur spell growth. As Mystra only uses one Magister at a time, I can see why she might get tired of the string of idiots that the old route would provide at various points and want to take more direct control over the procedure. |
| MarkusTay6302-23-07, 11:26 PM | Can speciality priests of Mystra cast Arcane spells? I know in 2e they could, but I don't have the newer Faiths and Pantheons. If that is the case, then I would think a priest could become the Magister, but only a priest of Mystra (and possibly Azuth). I doubt a Sorceror would make a good Magister, they really don't research magic according to canon, they have 'natural' talent. Being a self-taught class, it really doesn't fit. I suppose a Bard could, but his spells top out at 4th level, and he is more interested in musical research and development, so another poor choice. Wizard really should be the only class allowed, with maybe a RARE Wu-jen or Sha'ir. |
| ravennight02-23-07, 11:29 PM | Ahh so there is a reason to kill the Magister! Yes, I suppose that's true. Unlike the Chosen who seem to get much more direction from Mystra, the Magister seems largely on his or her own in terms of deciding what to do with the office, so if he or she has a particular axe to grind, then she could rack up enemies. The gods, though, have let it be known that it was no longer a position confirred through combat. Plus, I agree with some of your sentiment, it isn't always that interesting to have a powerful noncombatant. If there is a position of authority, they must have some power to uphold that authority and a reason it needs to be upheld, but they still need to do some nurturing and fostering. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-24-07, 04:19 AM | Yes, I suppose that's true. Unlike the Chosen who seem to get much more direction from Mystra, the Magister seems largely on his or her own in terms of deciding what to do with the office, so if he or she has a particular axe to grind, then she could rack up enemies. The gods, though, have let it be known that it was no longer a position confirred through combat. Plus, I agree with some of your sentiment, it isn't always that interesting to have a powerful noncombatant. If there is a position of authority, they must have some power to uphold that authority and a reason it needs to be upheld, but they still need to do some nurturing and fostering. Oh I always agreed that the Magister should nurturing and foster magical growth in the world. I just think that the old method of selection made more sense and accomplished the same thing in the end. Now that its an Azuth appointed position it just seems a little silly. But that’s the great thing about having your own Champaign world you can ignore things that change in the canon.:D |
| GothicDan02-24-07, 09:08 AM | You know what's a good possible cooperation between the old vs. the new 'rules' of the Magister? Mage Duels. I love 'em. You get to show exactly how powerful you are in combat (if you want to) without killing off other users of the Art. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-24-07, 02:14 PM | You know what's a good possible cooperation between the old vs. the new 'rules' of the Magister? Mage Duels. I love 'em. You get to show exactly how powerful you are in combat (if you want to) without killing off other users of the Art. Well even with the old method the Dual did not have to be fatal. It just ended up that way, because of the kind of people that came seeking the title. |
| Stigger02-24-07, 05:23 PM | Yes, dweomerkeepers are indeed arcane and divine casters. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-27-07, 01:34 AM | Old school Magister’s ROCK! |
| herceg02-27-07, 02:06 AM | You mean, 2e Magisters ;) (strictly before Noumea&Midnight) |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-27-07, 03:03 AM | You mean, 2e Magisters ;) (strictly before Noumea&Midnight) Yeah except Midnight was never Magister. Noumea was however. |
| Stigger02-27-07, 03:04 AM | Suspect he meant Midnight's ascension to godhood, and her changing of the rules on the matter. ;) |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-27-07, 03:08 AM | Well in that case yes! When it was cool to be the Magister!:D :D :D :cool: ;) |
| Stigger02-27-07, 03:09 AM | More like a death-sentence to be Magister. :P |
| herceg02-27-07, 03:10 AM | Thanks Stigger :) Yep, that's what I meant. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-27-07, 03:13 AM | More like a death-sentence to be Magister. :P Hey that’s was all part of the fun! Plus you learned a lot! If 5 mages came to kill you and you won, you got all their stuff! Magic items and spell books all over the place. Or you could go on the offensive and get them first! The Bloody Champion of Mystra! |
| Stigger02-27-07, 03:29 AM | Yeah, but the most important lesson learned is that you would have been better off not seeking the office out... but if you notice, their names aren't all that remembered beyond a very select few who actually lasted more than a few years. When you think of great wizards of the Realms, which names come up more often, Snilloc, Maskar Wands, Savengriff, Nain Keenwhistler, Presper, Nchaser, Kyristan, Bowgentle... or most of the Magisters? Their careers pretty much ended in just a few short years... bright, but brief flames no one remembers because they didn't accomplish all that much in general before they were dead, beyond perhaps a spectacular death. |
| herceg02-27-07, 04:02 AM | I don't want to "metagame", but could it be that all the "famous" wizards listed by you (are they mostly from Pages from the Mages?) were already detailed as much as they couldn't been retconned as Magisters of their time, so they had to create completely new personalities? The spells most Magisters invented remained mostly secrets of the office, so the creators wouldn't become famous by those. EDIT: The really famous mages of Faerun are the Chosen and the BBEGs (Halaster, Zulkirs, Manshoon, Larloch etc). But they are all currently active (unlike all Magisters except the current one ;) ). |
| Stigger02-27-07, 07:46 AM | Partially from PftM, but also from various other sources like VGtaTM, LEoF, etc. They're the ones I saw consistently throughout the 2e sources and a few 3e sources, whose names are often attached to spells or items. As to the spells staying secrets of the office, that would for the most part undermine at least some of the purpose of the office in a lot of respects... Magisters for the most part either got hugely famous and became very well known, or they kept as low a profile as possible in order to build up their strength... and usually died quickly. Never sat down and compiled it, but from what I recall of SotM, most didn't serve much beyond 5-6 years... and quite a few less than that. That's one of the things that has bothered me fairly consistently about 3.x really, the stripping of non-Grayhawk names from a lot of spells. Takes away a lot of the feel of the Realms I think... sure I can add them back in to my own compiled spell lists, but then it's a pain to remember what they're called now to look them up when I need to. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-27-07, 12:49 PM | Old Magister’s are more interesting because of their brief stints. Although many last 20 or more years. The assumption that their unique spells were kept secrets of the office is blatantly wrong. The whole point of a Magister is to spread Magic. |
| MaskedOne02-27-07, 02:47 PM | There is a difference between spreading magic and spreading unique personal tricks. The magisters fullfill their purpose easily enough by spreading some of their tricks without putting their necks on the line handing copies of mantle and baldric (2E tricks, don't feel like finding appropriate 3E examples) to Thayan Zulkirs. Just as Khelben made a point of teaching apprentices for years but not of teaching them everything he knew. Magic still spreads, formidable wizards still come out of his tower. They just don't happen to have every last trick of their teacher. |
| Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron02-27-07, 03:02 PM | There is a difference between spreading magic and spreading unique personal tricks. The magisters fullfill their purpose easily enough by spreading some of their tricks without putting their necks on the line handing copies of mantle and baldric (2E tricks, don't feel like finding appropriate 3E examples) to Thayan Zulkirs. Just as Khelben made a point of teaching apprentices for years but not of teaching them everything he knew. Magic still spreads, formidable wizards still come out of his tower. They just don't happen to have every last trick of their teacher. Unless you kill the teacher! buahahahha |