Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MarkusTay63 09-14-07, 03:55 PM	I figure we should have one thread for these. I've read everything from the return of Fäerie to an alternate FR world. We have suggestions of GH, Eberron, and even Mystara. So what is your pet theory? (I need a good laugh right now, so zany ones welcome) My newest one? Toril merges with the planet Gargamel and the Smurfs run rampant. :D
Karsus the Mad 09-14-07, 04:44 PM	The resulting death of a specific goddess creates an unstable gate to an uknown/lost world in which people are carried in circles and loops in strange carriages linked together taking the shapes of various animals. Children are running around giggling with strange globes attached to strings that float and eat pink clouds and drink sweet brown liquids from metal cans with strange script.
Meldread 09-14-07, 04:46 PM	I do not think it means a literal physical merging of two worlds. I think it is the merging of different cultures. The Orc's developing a kingdom of their own and "merging" with the rest of civilization. The "good" Drow emerging from the Underdark and attempting to do the same. These could be just two examples of many others.
Fabius Maximus 09-14-07, 06:26 PM	I think Faerűn will merge with the Harry Potter universe. In the future, wizards will need to use short wands as spell foci, and elves will be shorter than halflings (and more annoying than kenders). Hey, it could be worse: the Realms could merge with the Eragon world... :D
BadCatMan 09-14-07, 10:54 PM	"...the discordant and disastrous joining of two worlds.." Past meets Present: Ancient magic and empires return, ie Netheril, and affect the present with their shenanigans. One of the old campaign settings is brought back (Kara-Tur, Al-Qadim, Maztica) and re-integrated with Faerun, though not very well. Or maybe it's something metaphysical, like east meets west, north meets south, new chaos versus old civilisation.
MarkusTay63 09-15-07, 01:59 AM	Don't laugh, I thought about them 'Potterizing' the magic system, requiring a focus, such as a wand or a staff, to cast spells. Its not that horrible a concept really, and it could be the only way to focus 'Raw Magic' in a post-Weave world. I wouldn't mind seeing an unknown enemy appear, from the south or west, sort of like the Seachan in the WoT series. A mighty, unstoppable army that has the ability to 'collar' spellcasters. However, with all the damage the silly Spellplague is doing, I don't see an invasion happening anytime soon. Maybe the other world will have some sort of bizzare radiation, and we will end up with a world of mutants. Either super-heroes or Gammaworld... "Look! Up in the sky... It's Elminsterman!" :P
Kelros 09-15-07, 02:05 AM	Azeroth meets Feaurun. Hilarity ensues!:D
MarkusTay63 09-15-07, 02:14 AM	THAT I would LOVE to see. :D The WoW planet is well-thought out and detailed, with lots of interesting dungeons and ruins to explore, and plenty of races and monsters. The only down side to playing WoW is the lack of 'depth' you get from running in a real RPG with a GM. But they already have Warcraft D20, so I don't see that happening. I'm fairly certain that Blizzard could pwn Hasbro. ;)
Yanagita Kunio 09-15-07, 03:13 AM	I just had this image of some well-meaning soul dredging up all the land sunk by High Magic between the Sword Coast and Evermeet. Hence the literal re-installation of "Abeir" in Abeir-Toril. Also--undersea civilazations + the bends = hilarity ensues. KtM--clearly you're referring to the strange world of the Nacerima.
Mrakvampire 09-15-07, 04:09 AM	THAT I would LOVE to see. :D The WoW planet is well-thought out and detailed, with lots of interesting dungeons and ruins to explore, and plenty of races and monsters. The only down side to playing WoW is the lack of 'depth' you get from running in a real RPG with a GM. But they already have Warcraft D20, so I don't see that happening. I'm fairly certain that Blizzard could pwn Hasbro. ;) Oh dear God! Please, please, play in your WoW and do not touch FR with your computer-smelling fingers.
ikki 09-15-07, 04:53 AM	..or the diablo world upfadted and brought in... lol... where gold pieces have no value whatsoever :D Ah no, still sticking to GH being the one brought in. Physical merging or just ... err... crystal spheres merging and thus very close indeed.. Noone has suggested dragonlance, that could be a easier explanation for how come everything went straight to hell... otoh there might be a intrest in maintaining that as a separate novel-world. Eberron is a bit too new and used to be sacrificed. GH otoh, just those ancient grogs even know what it was...
Zandilar 09-15-07, 07:49 AM	Heya, THAT I would LOVE to see. :D The WoW planet is well-thought out and detailed, with lots of interesting dungeons and ruins to explore, and plenty of races and monsters. The only down side to playing WoW is the lack of 'depth' you get from running in a real RPG with a GM. But they already have Warcraft D20, so I don't see that happening. I'm fairly certain that Blizzard could pwn Hasbro. ;) After doing digging, I think you'll find it's Vivendi who could pwn Hasbro. Vivendi being the parent company of Blizzard. (29.56 Euros vs 27.65 USD as of Friday - they're not listed on the same exchange, so that comparison might be off.) A direct comparison of Wizards of the Coast to Blizzard Entertainment would also result in the win being awarded to Blizzard. But Blizzard vs Hasbro? Nah. No comparison. Oh dear God! Please, please, play in your WoW and do not touch FR with your computer-smelling fingers. ... I've been playing in the Realms since the mid-90s, and playing WoW since December 2005. I, too, find it better if they don't mix as they're very different worlds. However, while I know WoW has a bad reputation, there's no need for that level of ridicule, k?
gang 09-15-07, 08:25 AM	My money's on the merging of the 'southern' (mainly Mulhorand) pantheons with the main Faerunian 'pantheon.'
MerrikCale 09-15-07, 08:58 AM	and even Mystara. cool. Glantri vs. Thay, whatta war
MarkusTay63 09-15-07, 09:57 AM	If its GH, I'm gonna s__t.... just about every idea I've ever had I eventually saw in print, and that would be the final straw. I merged FR with parts of GH years ago. I'll probably wind up in a mental institution mumbling something like "they have cameras... cameras... everywhere...." Maybe we'll see FR merge with the Hyborian World, and Conan can finally meet his clone Wulfgar. :rolleyes:
Iakhovas 09-15-07, 10:26 AM	http://www.geonomicon.com/portal/images/tabloid-FRGHplanet.gif
JetLeechan 09-15-07, 11:16 AM	Abeir maybe is the moon, Selune. Now that a certain godess is gone the illusion that shielded the people of the moon from the eyes of Faerunians becomes cracky and the two cultures will eventually merge.
Andyr 09-15-07, 02:24 PM	the return of Fäerie I'd like this one; the idea of the secretive Fey of the Realms existing in a semi-parallel world has always appealed to me. Perhaps the cataclysmic events that led the elves to abandon Tintageer thousands of years ago (which, as an aside, I like to think were wars stemming from the aftermath of Tharizdun/the Dark God [who, as another aside, I like to think was Ghaunadaur] causing the creation of the Queen of Air and Darkness, and resultant split of the Fey into Seelie and Unseelie Courts) caused the original sundering of the Fey realm and Toril. Their rejoining after the Spellplague could provide the 'new' magical fabric of the world, seeing as the Weave is devastated, allowing magic to resume.
GothicDan 09-15-07, 06:56 PM	The Plane of Shadow and Faerun.
Yakman 09-15-07, 10:19 PM	The Plane of Shadow and Faerun. this is almost certainly the answer. the weave isn't really a world, and the shadow weave isn't either, so they couldn't be brought co-terminus with toril. and the attempt to bring the plane of shadow and the prime into alignment would likely have the disastrous consequences that are alluded to so far.
kaor 09-15-07, 10:24 PM	I like the idea of Faerie being much closer to Faerun also. I know a lot of people have wanted a sourcebook on the Fey for a long time. Perhaps it is time for them to be much more a part of things again. "Their rejoining after the Spellplague could provide the 'new' magical fabric of the world, seeing as the Weave is devastated, allowing magic to resume." Heck maybe the weave was like bugshield netting for the Fey. Maybe the establishment of the weave is the event that separated Faerie from Toril. Or maybe the weave has been around since Mystra. I don't have a lot of the references that people pull that kind of thing from. Anyone know what the 'Abeir' is all about anyway?
Dark Wizard 09-15-07, 10:57 PM	I had the idea for a light hearted story, more of a parody, set in the Realms about two characters stranded from another world. Now it can actually be more serious. This makes me want to get to it. Ah, this will be fun.
GothicDan 09-15-07, 11:28 PM	There is no room for comedy in the world of Sharun.
MarkusTay63 09-16-07, 12:04 AM	No, no, no... Didn't you get the memo (and read the spoiler?) Its called Drizztopia now! :D
GothicDan 09-16-07, 12:13 AM	No, I killed that one.
MarkusTay63 09-16-07, 12:44 AM	That would be the messenger... ;)
Borris 09-16-07, 05:03 PM	I'm surprised no one has suggested the merging of Toril with White Wolf's World of Darkness. Both are filled with secretive, ancient organizations, lost empires, sleeping monstrosities. And both have more high-level supernatural characters than there are square feet above sea level. The spell plague turns all arcane casters into power-mad mages bent on world domination, and all divine casters into unholy aberrations who need to feed of fresh blood in order to survive. The plane of Faerie comes back toward the material plane, bringing with it eladrins doomed to die as they grow older and forget what it is to be young and pure. The death of Kelemvor prevents the spirits of the dead to leave Toril and wraiths haunt every populated corner of the Realms. Lycanthropes comme back by the thousand, slaying all those who would despoil the wilderness between the remaining points of light. And as the mulhorandi panthons slowly merges with the rest of the gods, mummies rise to defend Horus-Re from the depradation of Set's former clerics turned vampires.
MarkusTay63 09-16-07, 05:28 PM	Actually, the general consensus is that FR is becoming WoD, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense for it to merge with it to become it. More likely, two 'neutral' worlds will merge, and the resulting cataclysm will cause the WoD in FR. And besides, WotC doesn't own White Wolf... yet. ;) As much as I was hoping for the Fey, and have seen a few signs of it, I'm starting to lean toward Greyhawk more and more. This "no more 'core vs FR' attitude" that the designers were pushing at Gencon seems to point heavily toward that. Also, by killing a slew of old gods, you make room for new ones to join the fray. GHers have been complaining about the lack of support, and FRers have been complaining about the lack of 'new and different' material regarding the rest of the planet, and a decision like merging the two would solve that and a bunch of other 'core vs FR' argumaents. And then there was that mention of the 'new' Elves worshipping Obad-Hai... http://www.geonomicon.com/portal/images/tabloid-FRGHplanet.gifThat is a dream of mine, and something I did IMG... sort of. I had the merger more like DC comics Crisis series, where all of their alternate earths merged and became one, even changing people's memories to match. Areas of my Realms have many GH locations in them, but they've been fit into the existing continent. I would love to see the whole continent imported, and the fact that the east/west axis is reversed 'race-wise', it would be a near perfact fit. It would be great to see the Rauthym (Auzuopozi ;) ) get a homeland of their own. I say 'near perfect' because we still wind up with anither 'middle-Eastern' flavor region (but that can be ret-conned) out. I always knew their was connnection between the Red Wizards and the Scarlet Brotherhood. :P
Dark Wizard 09-16-07, 05:48 PM	The royal *****ing from the Greyhawkers would be unbearable. Our dirty, infested harlot of the Forgotten Realms (the setting personally slept with each and every TSR staffer, even the mail room guys and continues her sordid practices with WotC) would have soiled their precious, pristine Oerth. No one would ever hear the end of it. FR already mugged Oerth of the Underdark, and the outer planes, and the mindflayers and beholders. Now the entire setting too? The entirety of the WotC could collapse into a black hole from the cosmic quantity of their complaints.
MarkusTay63 09-16-07, 06:03 PM	But we gave them back the Outer Planes! All we have to show for it is some silly Tree, and I think Kezef just peed on it... So we kept a few monsters and some dank, musty caves - they got an entire multiverse back to themselves. I would say we are pretty even. But you're right - the *****-fest would would carry on for decades. Too bad too... I'd be one of the few who would already be well-aquainted with both. But still - Ed did list Erelhei-Cinlu as a Faerűnian Drow city once. A mistake? Perhaps.... :devil:
Dark Wizard 09-16-07, 06:36 PM	It's not enough, they want it all. They want the eradication of all settings not of Oerth for Greyhawk is perfect. Hallowed are the Oeridians. It's part of their plan to eventually raise Gary Gygax to godhood. Then he will truly become like his fictional alter ego, Zagyg, or at least as powerful as Mordekainen. Then the world will rue the day they usurped D&D from its rightful overlord. :P I think all the people who play Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms already do. Those Greyhawkers who hate the Realms are a lost cause when it comes to interest in the Realms. Combining the two of them destroys the brand image for both properties. WotC can't have it all, but they can try harder, like changes to the Realms that make sense for starters.
MarkusTay63 09-16-07, 07:29 PM	You're acting like they are making rational, well thought-out decisions here. Have you ever taken a look at some of the creatures on the Pokémon cards? You can't possibly think that the same guys who thought of those aren't already skating the fine line of insanity. :P Then again, I don't think they actually create them or own the franchise - they just license it from the animé people. DW, I used to be an FR hater, but then I saw the light (Okay... I couldn't find anyone to play with...). Those who don't like FR haven't tried FR <with apologies to Chex cereal>. I think it would help strengthen both lines (the Grey Realms?) in the long run, and then we could stand together, the old gaurd, in a unified front against the evil that is Eberron. :dancin: Everyone could win in that scenario - but it won't happen, I know. People will go into a frenzy, overturn cars, burn their old grey boxes, march on Washington... You get the idea. :rolleyes:
Rizogue 09-17-07, 10:41 AM	It is most certainly The Plane of Shadow and the Realms. Between the Archwizards (Netherese) series, the Supermodules - Cormyr (subtitled The Tearing of the Weave), Shadowdale, and Anauroch - and the pointed mention of the return of Netheril in Orc King, I think any other speculation is really un-necessary. What could more violent than pulling regions into the Plane of Shadow, and replacing them with their own twisted shadow realities? The Chaulssin from War of the Spider Queen, The Netherese from the Archwizards, the followers of Shar and Cyric coming together in the new Supermodules - the last of which is dated to hit in November, obviously intended to help ring in the new Edition. It seems that the Archwizards' presence obviously had an effect on The Weave, since even Weave Magic seemed to be tainted by Shadow where they were involved. I personally think that the Weave and the Shadow Weave are going to collide in a way that both become unleashed upon Faerun in some nasty way. While active spellcasters become consumed by the effect of the collision, others find a way to tap into this new untamed power source in some new way much more open to the general populace than it was under Mystra's domain. Rampant Wild Magic everywhere. A Spellplague of sorts, perhaps. ;)
MaskedOne 09-17-07, 11:24 AM	You're acting like they are making rational, well thought-out decisions here. Have you ever taken a look at some of the creatures on the Pokémon cards? You can't possibly think that the same guys who thought of those aren't already skating the fine line of insanity. :P Then again, I don't think they actually create them or own the franchise - they just license it from the animé people. DW, I used to be an FR hater, but then I saw the light (Okay... I couldn't find anyone to play with...). Those who don't like FR haven't tried FR <with apologies to Chex cereal>. I think it would help strengthen both lines (the Grey Realms?) in the long run, and then we could stand together, the old gaurd, in a unified front against the evil that is Eberron. :dancin: Everyone could win in that scenario - but it won't happen, I know. People will go into a frenzy, overturn cars, burn their old grey boxes, march on Washington... You get the idea. :rolleyes: If memory serves and it better since I created the entry for my store's database on Pokemon cards, WotC does not directly produce or supply the TCG that shall not be named. They're provided by Pokemon USA and listed under a different code system by the supplier my store works through. If WotC has ties to them, then they're not making a point of revealing them. Heck, not certain they are connected to Hasbro. Past that, I'm hoping for something completely out of the blue. Little desire to mix in Greyhawk, the Fey or plane of Shadow might be interesting. Eh well, other events have potentially irritated me enough that in my case the question becomes moot.
Rizogue 09-17-07, 11:44 AM	Further food for thought from the back of Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land: Zhentish soldiers, Maerimydran drow, and Sharran cultists have forged a dark alliance to subjugate the peaceful land of Shadowdale. Elmister's tower lies in ruins, Lord Amcathra governs at the sufference of the dale's conquerors, and the very Weave of magic in this embattled land seems to fray with each passing day. Also, Anauroch: The Sundering of the World seems to be being renamed Anauroch: The Empire of Shade , and an entry at Amazon refers to Shadowdale: The Scouring of the Land as Shadowdale: The Weave Unwinding. There is no real good description of Anauroch anywhere yet.
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-17-07, 05:08 PM	Isn't it clear what Hasbro's doing? They're going to merge us with Transformers. -Elminster transforms into a Scooter-
Suin Bahhar 09-17-07, 05:25 PM	Isn't it clear what Hasbro's doing? They're going to merge us with Transformers. -Elminster transforms into a Scooter- :D Ki-cko-cko-ko-cki. (tries to make the rodent an animal compagnon... seems to give the rodent a chestnut...:fetch:)
Dark Wizard 09-17-07, 05:29 PM	EL-MIN-STER, more than meets the EYE!
LGMoses 09-17-07, 05:45 PM	It's not enough, they want it all. They want the eradication of all settings not of Oerth for Greyhawk is perfect. Hallowed are the Oeridians. It's part of their plan to eventually raise Gary Gygax to godhood. Then he will truly become like his fictional alter ego, Zagyg, or at least as powerful as Mordekainen. Then the world will rue the day they usurped D&D from its rightful overlord. :P I think all the people who play Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms already do. Those Greyhawkers who hate the Realms are a lost cause when it comes to interest in the Realms. Combining the two of them destroys the brand image for both properties. WotC can't have it all, but they can try harder, like changes to the Realms that make sense for starters. Elminster vs. Mordenkainen Heck yeah! :mage: Without his precious Mystra Elminster would be toast! Silly chosen template :P Does anyone else think this "Points of Lght" thing sounds a whole lot like Ravenloft? So maybe it will Ravenloft merging with Forgotten Realms?
Dark Wizard 09-17-07, 06:04 PM	You're acting like they are making rational, well thought-out decisions here. Have you ever taken a look at some of the creatures on the Pokémon cards? You can't possibly think that the same guys who thought of those aren't already skating the fine line of insanity. :P Then again, I don't think they actually create them or own the franchise - they just license it from the animé people. So you're saying some cult of a Cthulhoid entity has rooted itself within WotC to use game publications as a way to disseminate their madness. Does this mean we should buy Lords of Madness and start taking levels in the anti-aberration PrCs found in that book? DW, I used to be an FR hater, but then I saw the light (Okay... I couldn't find anyone to play with...). Those who don't like FR haven't tried FR <with apologies to Chex cereal>. I think it would help strengthen both lines (the Grey Realms?) in the long run, and then we could stand together, the old gaurd, in a unified front against the evil that is Eberron. :dancin: I think if people run Realms games the way they run Greyhawk games, there wouldn't be a problem. The Circle of Eight doesn't come knocking at everyone's door either. While the Chosen seem like they might, they don't and shouldn't. Besides, from what I keep hearing of Mystara, I think that world deserves an update over Greyhawk. Mystara ... Mystra ... maybe that's where she went after Cyric shived her. :hides:
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-17-07, 06:04 PM	EL-MIN-STER, more than meets the EYE! :rofl: @Suin: Gerbils aren't dire animals! Make an Animal Empathy check, DC 4000. What's that? You can't roll 4000 on a 20-sided-die? Too bad. I guess you fail. :P Though I feel immense ego rising up for someone wanting me their animal companion. :D
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-17-07, 06:06 PM	I keep hearing of Mystara, I think that world deserves an update over Greyhawk. :hides: Agreed. Although I do like the portion of Greyhawk that gave everyone a region based on where they lived; it'd be nice to see something like that again. But perhaps it's not meant to be. :(
Suin Bahhar 09-17-07, 07:18 PM	Gerbils aren't dire animals! Make an Animal Empathy check, DC 4000. What's that? You can't roll 4000 on a 20-sided-die? Too bad. I guess you fail. *Casts Twinned Heightened Dominate Animal* Fetch! * throws nut into next thread * Need no empathy, oh no! :D
Zandilar 09-17-07, 07:18 PM	Heya, I personally think this is a figurative "merging" rather than literal. (Or at least that's what I'm telling myself, and that's what I'm hoping. I could be wrong...) Or... Abeir could be another word for Alpha. Maybe there's a Beta Realms floating around? :P (They're merging servers due to a low population of players... :D)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-17-07, 07:21 PM	I'll bet this "merging of two worlds" is going to be something literal, and it will rub me the wrong way as much as possible. Hey, if I'm wrong, at least I'll be pleasantly surprised!
Straploknight 09-17-07, 08:36 PM	After reading the new D&D Insider article on wizards, I'm gonna go with Forgotten Realms collides with the world of Harry Potter. I wonder what the entry requirments for Hogworts are?
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-17-07, 09:22 PM	*Casts Twinned Heightened Dominate Animal* Fetch! * throws nut into next thread * Need no empathy, oh no! :D *Gerbil makes PC Will Save* *Rolls 20, adds ability modifier 3980* You lose. :shifty: :P
MarkusTay63 09-17-07, 09:23 PM	There will be seperate PrCs for each of the four houses - Hufflepuff, Gryffndor, Ravenclaw, and Slitheran, and other ones for Deatheaters and Order of the Phoenix intitiates. :dancin: I've already figured in a lot of that in MY Halrua, including calling nonmagic types muggles. I've noticed the Mystara/Mystra connection before, but I think that is nothing more then a respectful nod to another great setting by Ed Greenwood - he did contribute to it qute a bit before TSR bought FR. Ya know... Mystara was once part of another world as well... before the whole 'Blackmoor' incident... All that GREAT fluff going to waste....... ;) It is most certainly The Plane of Shadow and the Realms... I think any other speculation is really un-necessary.I'm sorry... I'll stop thinking now.... :rolleyes: BTW - who 'Awakened' the gerbil? :P
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-17-07, 09:24 PM	After reading the new D&D Insider article on wizards, I'm gonna go with Forgotten Realms collides with the world of Harry Potter. I wonder what the entry requirments for Hogworts are? You have to be a teenager with raging hormones who's only goal and purpose in life is to lead a terrible, tragic series of events without EVER getting laid until you're 30-something, and that's with your best friend's sister. Oh, and you have to have the maturity to hold a stick and not make a bad joke. So we're all out of the running right there.
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-17-07, 09:26 PM	BTW - who 'Awakened' the gerbil? :P After a period of being suspended by a series of torture devices, the Gerbil's parts were getting itchy. And when it itches, NOTHING stop the Gerbil from scratching. :P
LGMoses 09-17-07, 09:29 PM	Agreed. Although I do like the portion of Greyhawk that gave everyone a region based on where they lived; it'd be nice to see something like that again. But perhaps it's not meant to be. :( Living Realms is coming to the RPGA next year to replace Living Greyhawk. Greyhawk fans like myself are sad to see it go, but Living Realms will be very popular probably. Have a look on the RPGA forums. Chris Tulach is taking suggestions.
MarkusTay63 09-17-07, 09:36 PM	could Forgotten Realms Online be far behind? :D Maybe we will get merged with the Scooby Doo Universe! Then none of the monsters will be real... just cheesy humans in a mask. "Creeper..... CREEPER..."
LGMoses 09-18-07, 01:08 AM	could Forgotten Realms Online be far behind? :D I can't wait to play FRO!
18DELTA 09-18-07, 01:43 AM	I think its going to be EVERMEET!:D With the spellplague ravaging the world, the weave going away. Mystra getting knocked off. DIE, MYSTRA, DIE. Music to my ears. That is so lovely. DIE, MYSTRA, DIE.:w00t: :clap: :dancin: :cheer: Evermeet exists in the past, the present, & the future. Created by magic(ELVEN HIGH MAGIC). The REALMS as we know it is changing weather we like it or not. What poetic justice. They retake MYTH DRANNOR, CAUSE EVERMEET GETS SMASHED. That would be bold. That would be AWESOME!:noway:
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-18-07, 07:39 AM	could Forgotten Realms Online be far behind? :D [/I] Play NWN like the rest of us. You'll feel better about yourself. (Psst. EB Games has NWN Diamond for like, 20 bucks. Everyone should buy it so I'm not a loner online and so I have a team to help me map out Faerun in the game. Psst. :shifty:)
Larloch_the_Ultra_Lich 09-18-07, 09:40 AM	Merging of two worlds will be the joining of the world of shadow and the prime material plane because of Shar's shadowstorm. Or at least, that seems to be the way shadowbred, shadowstorm, and shadowrealm are taking it
MarkusTay63 09-18-07, 02:02 PM	If it is the plane of Shadow, after the non-stop bellyaching by fans of the over-abundance of shadpwcr@p, I can honestly say I will NEVER make another FR purchase. :pbbbtt: Seriously, I never bothered to read the 'Shade' series, and I don't like the way they are forcing this down our throats. They have contaminated Entreri along with everything else. They should of just called it the Shadowplague... since all it does it make us ill.
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-18-07, 04:25 PM	All the good sickness jokes, and all you came up with was Shadowplague!? I'm ashamed. :P It could have been....Shadaids. Or...Shadosick. Or Shadowpuke. Or some other illness. Shadowlicorice, I don't care. But PLAGUE!? Where's the style!? :P Just kidding.
Markustay 09-18-07, 04:49 PM	As in... SPELLPLAGUE! Uh-DOH! :doh: My point was that the Spellplague involves Shar killing Mystra and creating the Spelplague, so they shouldjust call it what it is - Shadowherpes. :P There... you happy now, ya lil' rodent? ;)
18DELTA 09-18-07, 05:02 PM	As in... SPELLPLAGUE! Uh-DOH! :doh: My point was that the Spellplague involves Shar killing Mystra and creating the Spelplague, so they shouldjust call it what it is - Shadowherpes. :P There... you happy now, ya lil' rodent? ;) QFT This post for the win.:D :P :yuck: :uh-huh: :blush: :dancin: :lightbulb :plotting: :rofl: :dancin: orc orc orc orc orc porc porc porc porc orc orc orc :dancin: Cause you know them little cuties are to stupid for the shadowplague to harm!:eek: Grumsh is a genius.;)
Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir 09-18-07, 07:12 PM	As in... SPELLPLAGUE! Uh-DOH! :doh: My point was that the Spellplague involves Shar killing Mystra and creating the Spelplague, so they shouldjust call it what it is - Shadowherpes. :P There... you happy now, ya lil' rodent? ;) :uh-huh: Shar gave Mystra SHADOWHERPES!? :shifty: In this light, Cyric will now be putting flowers in everybody's hair, and next thing you know, everyone's dancing around a tree chanting.
Diffucius 09-18-07, 08:16 PM	You know, perhaps Sildëyuir (or whatever the Star Elf realm is called) is forced onto the material plane, or perhaps the Deep Imaskari made some mischief... Perhaps the Mulhorandi gods open a portal to their own world to survive whatever Drizzt is mentioning in the Orc King excerpt?
Burningspear 09-20-07, 11:15 PM	'Spellplague', question about this term? is it referred to in some book or whatnot? thnx in advance anyway
MarkusTay63 09-21-07, 12:32 PM	THIS (http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/Products/default.aspx?doc=959867200) should answer some of your questions. Also, the term was first introduced at Gencon, and Itis used in the recently released GhotR. Basically, it is an armageddon-level catastrophe (RSE) that changes the Realms as we know it forever. What little we know from GHotR - So far, all we know for sure is that it begins in 1385 DR, Mystra is killed, Mages go insane, and Magic takes a holiday. My newest theory, BTW, is that Abeir is the part of Toril that had advance up until the time of the Sundering. When the Elves High Magic Ritual reached back in time and changed the way the world formed, it actually created a divergent timeline (Toril). So we have two seprate FR's, and they will come crashing back together again when magic fails, causing a veritable 'Merging of two worlds'. With that, they can cover any changes they wish to make, and modify canon as they see fit. Anything could have arisen on that alternate Faerűn; Different magical traditions, new or different gods, Warforged, Changelings, Elves may have been called something else, Gnomes may never have achieved a place of prominence amongst the other races, Demons and Devils may have evolved into different creatures entirely... You see, using existing canon, one can go back and litterally 'erase' canon.
Burningspear 09-21-07, 12:35 PM	THIS (http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/Products/default.aspx?doc=959867200) should answer some of your questions. Also, the term was first introduced at Gencon, and Itis used in the recently released GhotR. Basically, it is an armageddon-level catastrophe (RSE) that changes the Realms as we know it forever. What little we know from GHotR - So far, all we know for sure is that it begins in 1385 DR, Mystra is killed, Mages go insane, and Magic takes a holiday. Meaning crap goes the World as we know it :(, i dislike Wotc more and more, and also their subsidiaries, like the one that used to run dragon magazine... :blegh:
MarkusTay63 09-21-07, 01:47 PM	Paizo actually did an excellent job - thats probably why they got canned. The material they produced was far superior to most of what WotC was producing. Paizo's Mega-adventure format was SO popular, that WotC adopted it for the Realms. Unfortunetly, they SUCKED at it. :rolleyes:
Burningspear 09-21-07, 01:51 PM	I never said Wotc did not suck, bigtime!!! :plotting:
johnkretzer 09-21-07, 02:16 PM	I think they are merging it with the old cartoon world of Thundar the Barbarian. Though seriously they are merging it with the new background of 4th edition. The PoL idea. Which they said they weren't going to do....
MarkusTay63 09-21-07, 02:32 PM	I think they are merging it with the old cartoon world of Thundar the Barbarian.OMG!!! :eek: My favorite cartoon series EVA! :dancin: Will we get that cool 'broken moon'? I want to be a Mok!!! :D
Straploknight 09-21-07, 02:55 PM	OMG!!! :eek: My favorite cartoon series EVA! :dancin: Will we get that cool 'broken moon'? I want to be a Mok!!! :D I was gonna say the same thing :D I got dibs on the name Ukla though :P I also get the aircraft carrier.
johnkretzer 09-21-07, 03:56 PM	OMG!!! :eek: My favorite cartoon series EVA! :dancin: Will we get that cool 'broken moon'? I want to be a Mok!!! :D I alway felt that could be a awesome RPG, oh wait we had gamma world... Well I would like to see it get it's own RPG anyway. And it was my idea I get Mok.
MarkusTay63 09-21-07, 04:07 PM	That, and Pirates of Darkwaters that came out years later. Both of them really captured that 'fantasy RPG' feel.
The Ubbergeek 09-21-07, 07:30 PM	I never said Wotc did not suck, bigtime!!! :plotting: They are better than TSR was, and a certain sueing-happy company that we can"t name...
msatran 09-21-07, 07:48 PM	Well, I for one, give my vote to the Birthright Setting. That's Right. Because Richard Baker just can't give his own failures a rest.
GothicDan 09-21-07, 10:33 PM	Birthright. The ONLY D&D product I ever RETURNED. I bought Dragon Mountain instead. I never found out until years later just who wrote it. They are better than TSR was, and a certain sueing-happy company that we can"t name... I see you've been into the Shrooms again.
The Ubbergeek 09-22-07, 02:07 AM	Birthright. The ONLY D&D product I ever RETURNED. I bought Dragon Mountain instead. I never found out until years later just who wrote it. I see you've been into the Shrooms again. First, TSR's days tend to be seen in rosey goggles, and second, you know, I am sure, this non-D&D game company who it is forbidden to discuss here. Or at least if you know the rpg world in globality.
johnkretzer 09-22-07, 03:09 AM	First, TSR's days tend to be seen in rosey goggles, and second, you know, I am sure, this non-D&D game company who it is forbidden to discuss here. Sure at the end TSR was bad...because she who-will-not-be-named had nothing but contempt for D&D players, But before it wasn't that bad. I definitly like the creative( or R&D) team back then alot better.
GothicDan 09-22-07, 10:36 AM	First, TSR's days tend to be seen in rosey goggles, Go ahead, keep saying stupid things. I didn't even get into FR almost until when 3E came out. I only knew TSR for about a year. Rosy glasses, I think not.
MerrikCale 09-22-07, 11:59 AM	Go ahead, keep saying stupid things. I didn't even get into FR almost until when 3E came out. I only knew TSR for about a year. Rosy glasses, I think not. I played from about 1982 to 1990 ish. Then stopped until after 3e had long come out. So my glasses may be a touch rosy.
GothicDan 09-22-07, 12:06 PM	Haha, I was 5 in 1990.
Markustay 09-22-07, 12:51 PM	I had a kid in 1990. ;) No need for arguiing peeps, you're both correct. TSR was a company of gamers for and about gamers. That clouds our vision of them quite a bit- they were like us. They had wild and crazy ideas, some of which worked well, others of which stunk to high hell. But they kept chuggin' along pouring out tons of material that was very original, however poorly conceived some of it was. They were NOT a very well run business. They took major risks, attempted too much growth after their initial 2e success with FR, and paid for it in the end. A lot of good came out of those years, but so did a lot of bad (Birthright, Council of Worms). They were gamers, not business men. WotC on the other hand, is a well-run business. They make money and are very successful. This new FR is probably the biggest risk they have taken to date, but I'm sure it was well-thought out and the out-comes wieghed. If the setting tanks, most people will run to another WotC setting, or some homebrew. Either way, they still sell rules books to everyone, and they can still continue their much more lucrative FR novels line in the new extended timeline. Either way they win. Its a an excellent business model, and one I applaud as an ex-business owner. Unfortunely, that leaves us with the sour taste in our mouths of the old Mafia cliche' - "It's just business, nothing personal." And thats ALL it is, so take it with a grain of salt. :rolleyes: Back on Topic: If they do merge FR with the ScoobyDoo universe, will we all have to wear stupid ascots? And if so, will Gothic Dan then become an avid supporter? :P @Ubbergeek - What company are YOU talking about? If it's who I think it is, I've mentioned them several times in the past. They are a miniatures company first, and have only recently come out with a new set of RPG rules for their (excellent) setting. If they weren't so competitive, they should have made it D20 to insure it's success, but alas the rules are near-useless to most of us. Anyhow, PM me with who you are talking about, but if it is who I think, then I would have to disagree because they have had lousy quarterly earnings the last two years running, and they are a mass-combat miniatures company first and formost. And YEAH, I actually check game companies quarterly earnings... ;)
18DELTA 09-22-07, 01:00 PM	:plotting: :waits: I just thought of another theory. The 248th layer of the abyss becomes part of the area of Thesk & The Great Dale? Eltab is bound to Faerun, do to the Adamatium Binding. Thats why that area has been called The DemonLands. Champions of Ruin has The Hidden Lord in it. Would he instead be sent back to the abyss, when magic goes bonkers? Interesting possabilites. Grand History says that Faerun becomes mutable & shapeable.
MerrikCale 09-22-07, 01:05 PM	Haha, I was 5 in 1990. suddenly, I have a hankering for prune juice
The Ubbergeek 09-22-07, 01:22 PM	@Ubbergeek - What company are YOU talking about? If it's who I think it is, I've mentioned them several times in the past. They are a miniatures company first, and have only recently come out with a new set of RPG rules for their (excellent) setting. If they weren't so competitive, they should have made it D20 to insure it's success, but alas the rules are near-useless to most of us. Anyhow, PM me with who you are talking about, but if it is who I think, then I would have to disagree because they have had lousy quarterly earnings the last two years running, and they are a mass-combat miniatures company first and formost. And YEAH, I actually check game companies quarterly earnings... ;) I still think WOTC did more for the game than TSR, at the very least by the end days TSR and economic side of it. Palladium Books. *Look around in paranoia for incoming mods.* (I exagerate, but Palladium threads are verbrotten.)
Markustay 09-22-07, 01:41 PM	Ahhhh... you were talking about that GURPS cr@p, eh? You know D20 was designed as 'open source' just to put a nail in THAT coffin, right? Lets see if 4e goes 'open content'... it will mean all the difference to me as to weather I will embrace it or not. I thought you were taking about GW and the Warhammer stuff - great setting, merely 'okay' rules.
The Ubbergeek 09-22-07, 03:57 PM	Ahhhh... you were talking about that GURPS cr@p, eh? You know D20 was designed as 'open source' just to put a nail in THAT coffin, right? Lets see if 4e goes 'open content'... it will mean all the difference to me as to weather I will embrace it or not. I thought you were taking about GW and the Warhammer stuff - great setting, merely 'okay' rules. Not them, but the makers of a certain rpg called Rift, with a rather.... impressive reputation. As the CEO and game maker. It's amusing how WOTC is called evil, when Palladium Books exist. Still.
Fabius Maximus 09-22-07, 07:54 PM	Despite what happens when worlds are merging, can we hope that Maztica and Kara-Tur drop of the edge? Get crushed? Just vanish? Please? :angelhide
MarkusTay63 09-22-07, 09:32 PM	Since Kara-Tur, Maztica, and Zakhara are all mentioned in the GHotR, I doubt they are going to 'just dissapear'. Why would you want THAT anyway? Wouldn't you rather see them fix them, then just abandon them? :confused: Although Maztica may get moved around if they do bring in another continent....
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-22-07, 09:40 PM	Despite what happens when worlds are merging, can we hope that Maztica and Kara-Tur drop of the edge? Get crushed? Just vanish? Please? :angelhide I actually like all those places except Maztica, and I dislike Maztica only because it's recent history is way too real world-ish for my tastes.
Dark Wizard 09-22-07, 10:26 PM	I'll just echo that last one.
Straploknight 09-22-07, 10:59 PM	suddenly, I have a hankering for prune juice Lol, thats a year after I graduated high school and began my plunge into the wonderful and exciting world or retail sales :rolleyes:
The Ubbergeek 09-23-07, 12:34 AM	Maztica is cool, as the two (three) others., Better they stay. And don't tel me that Ed had better plans so much, when you realise his Mullhorand was a COPY also - of Conan's 'egypt.'. Don't to EVEEEEL priestresses of Set. Or the very Ultima-ish 'islands of dungeons' of his Anchorome. PLease... *groans*
18DELTA 09-23-07, 01:50 AM	Thunder, thunder, thunder cats, ho!:D :rofl: I just couldnt resist!:P
Dark Wizard 09-23-07, 02:23 AM	Why does every person who likes the real world analogies keep pointing to Mulhorand as an example of Ed doing the same thing. Note the differences. Ed said Mulhorand (what little he got to detailing) originally was reminiscent of Howard's Stygia (already a fantasy-interpreted version of Egypt). It is very likely (given Ed's work on other areas of the Realms) that his version of Mulhorand would have departed significantly from Egypt or Stygia aside from having an Egyptian theme (and even then hinted that it was overrun by Set worships and cults to dark beings). See the difference, Mulhorand today is a mostly good-aligned crusading nation worshipping the Pharoahic pantheon (a mild twist on real world Egypt) where as Ed planned Mulhorand to be an evil-aligned region ruled by dark gods (a major departure from Egypt). It's all about taking things another step or two away from Earth analogies. It's not that one is better than the other, it's just how the Realms were originally set up. Stepping back starts to break setting consistency and it's obvious which parts of the setting do better. As for Anchorome, what little we do know isn't exactly specific. Seemed like Ed started playing in the Realms very soon after D&D came out (Anchorome seemed like it was found in a very early version of the Realms) and the first Ultima game came out in 1980 (several years later). The Ultima-ish set up is probably parallel development. Not hard to think up of successive islands with adventure sites on them. I did it in my own game in a limited form before ever hearing of the Realms (back in junior high when all the money my friends and I could muster only managed to get us the core books and a few old dice). Don't even get me started on Maztica again or the blander areas of Kara-Tur for that matter.
18DELTA 09-23-07, 03:10 AM	Hey the SDF-1 could crash land on EVERMEET. 10 years later a fleet of space warships could spacefold in to orbit, attack EVERMEET. Oh its the merging of two worlds, not the destruction of TORIL.:eek:
Fabius Maximus 09-23-07, 08:02 AM	Since Kara-Tur, Maztica, and Zakhara are all mentioned in the GHotR, I doubt they are going to 'just dissapear'. the 'merging' will happen after 1385, right? Why would you want THAt anyway? Wouldn't you rather see them fix them, then just abandon them? :confused: Although Maztica may get moved around if they do bring in another continent.... I think Maztica and Kara-Tur are beyond fixing. They are so close to the real-world clicheés of the Far East and ancient latin america that 'fixing' would mean completely redoing them. In that case, you can dump them just as well. With Mulhorand, I have to agree with Dark Wizard, and I haven't spent enough time with reading about Zakhara to create an opinion about it.
MerrikCale 09-23-07, 08:18 AM	I think Maztica and Kara-Tur are beyond fixing. I love Kara-Tur myself and would love to see it back in the fold. Maztica can go
The Ubbergeek 09-23-07, 11:29 AM	They all have something cool, and should stay. We should not give in to grognards, least it will Greyhawkize.
MarkusTay63 09-23-07, 12:08 PM	Rather then quote everyone, I'm just going to copy the format we adopted in the Utter east thread - Mulhorand - This is a GOLDEN opportunity for WotC to bring this facinating but oft ignored empire closer in-line with Ed's original vision. They steered away from it because they did not want it to appear as a carbo-Copy of Stygia, but now that it has grown and has become part of Realms history, bringing it closer to the dark and mysterious land ruled by cabals of wizards and evil priests would be a no-brainer. Perhaps with the hints about Mulhorand, and the canon fact that Set has been making some in-roads with Sebek and other non-Pharaonic gods, we will see a sudden rise of his church in the south. Zakhara was done correctly. It is NOT the Middle-East, it is the fantasy version of ancient Araby as told in the tales of Aladdin and A Thousand and One Nights. You get that 'real' feel, without it being a complete rip-off. By concentrating on the fantasy aspects of such a setting, we have something familiar without a direct analogy. Kara-Tur, and to some extent The Hordelands, were RW analogs to such a degree that writers actually accidentally used the RW names occassionally in sources. The fantasy aspect was there, in both settings, but played down rather then emphazied, which was a BIG mistake, IMHO. The Hordelands not so much so, but its hard not to think of the Tuigan as wanna-be mongols. Some effort was made with THAT one, which came out later, to better retro-fit it into Realms history, and recent Dragon magazine articles have furthered that. Maztica - What can I say? To bad you can't be arrested for plagerism from RW history - the designers would have gotten a life sentence. The RW analogies in THAT setting were so horrid that they made the Kara-Tur team look creative. However, it can be fixed. In fact, with the death of Helm the designers now have another Golden opportunity to right past wrongs. Have the natives revolt against the Amnites, and reform their own civilizations again - but different this time out, with some influences from Faerűn (like metallurgy). Katashaka - Something new and different. If the guys in charge at WotC have any brains at all, they would buy NYAMBE from its designers and paste it wholesale directly over Katashaka. The setting is brilliant and original, and captures that 'African' flavor without being a copy. Real World Analogies are not so bad unto themselves, but copying Earth history into a fantasy setting degrades said setting. You lose that sense of wonder when you feel as if your re-reading your 10th grade history book. I like analogies because they give us a foundation to build on with our imaginations. However, the designers need to take these interesting cultures and take them to the next level in 4e, so fans can finally enjoy them to their full potential. Anchorome can be reconciled as well. There is an island chain off the coast of that western continent, and THAT could have been Ed's Anchorome. They would be part of that continent, and they could even be named the 'Anchorome Islands'. No problem there putting Ed's vision together with Wotc's - especially since this is one of the few cases where having LESS lore turns out to be a good thing. I've decided to steer away from negative comments from here on out until I see something concrete. I see so much potential for them to fix the things that we all agree could use some work. Unfortunely, these changes will require a new edition, so we will have to take the good with the bad and see what they can turn it into. But with Ed's influence, I can see things getting 'back on track'.
18DELTA 09-23-07, 04:44 PM	The more I read of A Grand History, the more it looks like it will be, Kara-Tur.:plotting: :w00t: :evillaugh :love: :waits:
Straploknight 09-23-07, 05:19 PM	Thats not a bad thing, I've liked Kara-Tur since the 1e and the first OA, and I liked it tacked on to the Realms, along with Zakhara, it made for an expanisive world. Maztica, I wasn't to cool with for the reasons sighted by Markus. I just dont see the Realms with out Kara-Tur or Zakhara, without them its seems incomplete.
18DELTA 09-23-07, 05:23 PM	Thats not a bad thing, I've liked Kara-Tur since the 1e and the first OA, and I liked it tacked on to the Realms, along with Zakhara, it made for an expanisive world. Maztica, I wasn't to cool with for the reasons sighted by Markus. I just dont see the Realms with out Kara-Tur or Zakhara, without them its seems incomplete. Maybe thats why the pantheon is getting pruned? To add the GODS of Kara-Tur?:cool:
Dark Wizard 09-24-07, 01:21 AM	Perhaps some are mistaking the stance of the Maztica or Kara-Tur detractors as against the concept of non-Western inspired areas of the Realms on principle. That is not the case at all. It is because I am interested in non-Western fantasy settings that I want to see a good setting for Maztica or the other places. One that puts the concepts behind the history and cultures of Mesoamerica first, before that of Faerunian settlers. And in this case Ubbergeek, you're the grognard for hanging on to an archaic setting that sidelines the indigenous cultures, placing most of the focus on Western explorers. Many are asking for an appropriate change, you're stubbornly holding on to a highly flawed, unsupported product.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-24-07, 01:25 PM	Indeed, Ubergeek is one of the grumpiest people here. By the way, I don't think of the current Mulhorand as being all that good. It's an imperialistic nation and it also has institutionalized slavery, neither which are "good" in my book.
GothicDan 09-24-07, 01:52 PM	The world's a saner place with Ubber on ignore. ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-24-07, 02:02 PM	The world's a saner place with Ubber on ignore. ;) No doubt...
MarkusTay63 09-24-07, 02:29 PM	I prefer to hear all sides myself, even if I disagree with them. Sometimes even an ignorant person can make a valid point. No insult intended there AT ALL, BTW. Ignorant simply means 'un-informed' in my statement, and has NO BEARING on a person's actual intelligence. Obviously, I have climbed back up on my fence... For now. ;)
sleyvas 09-26-07, 12:05 PM	I'm betting its the plane of shadow. An alternative that would be plausible would be Faerie. One I haven't heard yet is the other actual planet in their solar system (the one filled with mind flayers and I'd bet aboleths). Since there is something about the rise of the aboleths, it could be a possibility, though I doubt it.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-26-07, 01:46 PM	I'm betting its the plane of shadow. Of course, that'd be pretty predictable and anticlimatic at this point, with all the hype surrounding Shar, the Shadow Weave, the Plane of Shadow, and anything having to do with them.
MarkusTay63 09-26-07, 02:02 PM	If it's the plane of Shadow, I can honestly say that I will bail on 4e. No negativity or anything, but I'm SICK of hearing about shadowcrap. That is all.
sleyvas 09-26-07, 02:10 PM	While active spellcasters become consumed by the effect of the collision, others find a way to tap into this new untamed power source in some new way much more open to the general populace than it was under Mystra's domain. Rampant Wild Magic everywhere. A Spellplague of sorts, perhaps. ;) Wild and Destructive Magic..... hmmm, isn't that someone else's portfolio? Maybe Talos' under the alias of Malyk? The destruction of the weave.... Talos' eye is a black void filled with stars.... I'm thinking Talos is getting a little taste of Shar. Kinky :cool:
sleyvas 09-26-07, 02:24 PM	:plotting: :waits: I just thought of another theory. The 248th layer of the abyss becomes part of the area of Thesk & The Great Dale? Eltab is bound to Faerun, do to the Adamatium Binding. Thats why that area has been called The DemonLands. Champions of Ruin has The Hidden Lord in it. Would he instead be sent back to the abyss, when magic goes bonkers? Interesting possabilites. Grand History says that Faerun becomes mutable & shapeable. Now, this one has some good merit as well. With the planes going all squirrelly, it would be interesting if the "hidden layer" of the abyss were to merge with that section of the realms more fully. I don't see it happening, as we already have all these pockets of demons in the realms. However, it is a viable option.
sleyvas 09-26-07, 02:28 PM	One I haven't heard yet is the other actual planet in their solar system (the one filled with mind flayers and I'd bet aboleths). Since there is something about the rise of the aboleths, it could be a possibility, though I doubt it. Oh, and just to clarify my thoughts here... if this were the case, it wouldn't be so much of a physical merging of the two worlds so much as a mass exodus from that planet via portals or spelljammers (psijammers?). Perhaps the mind flayers and aboleths of said world went to war and the aboleths were losing so they fled (or maybe they saw an opportunity here and decided to take advantage).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-26-07, 02:47 PM	If it's the plane of Shadow, I can honestly say that I will bail on 4e. No negativity or anything, but I'm SICK of hearing about shadowcrap. That is all. "Shadowcrap"--that's a great new buzzword.;)
Leon_Lionheart 09-26-07, 06:23 PM	I think maybe we're just going to learn a bit about one of the other Toril continents.
MarkusTay63 09-26-07, 07:32 PM	"Shadowcrap"--that's a great new buzzword.;)I've used it a few times before - guess you hadn't seen it yet. :D Everything is good in moderation, but it just seems they are ramming this down our throats weather we want it or not. :( The new Shadowfell (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070926a) sounds interesting though, mostly because it is OUTSIDE of the Realms proper.
Karsus the Mad 09-26-07, 08:22 PM	I prefer to hear all sides myself, even if I disagree with them. Sometimes even an ignorant person can make a valid point. Pretty much. The only reason for one to hate something about the Realms is because it doesn't fit ones ideal of the Realms.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-27-07, 01:16 PM	The new Shadowfell (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070926a) sounds interesting though, mostly because it is OUTSIDE of the Realms proper. I'm getting the impression that the old planes are just being reformed and renamed--I checked out the article and didn't see the word "plane" mentioned, but the descriptions of these otherworldly realms is pretty much the same.
MarkusTay63 09-27-07, 01:24 PM	So they are just re-naming everything so it sounds cooler? It REALLY is all just about buzzwords these days, isn't it? :( No wonder every other child in the U.S. is diagnosed with ADD - society has bred us to desire the 'next great thing', rather then appreciating what we have. This isn't just a sad statement about D&D, it's the world in general. :nonono:
Fabius Maximus 09-28-07, 07:55 AM	Well, it could well be the Plane of Shadow. Shar could instigated Cyric to his plot against Tyr and Helm, and similarly brought him to murder Mystra. She gets rid of three rivals, and is the only one who is prepared for the Weave to fail. Now, her followers can use 'real' shadow magic (maybe with the help of the Karseplug*), not just relying on the Weave's shadow, which doesn't exist anymore. The other Weave users, be it gods or spellcaster, flounder around and all hell breaks loose on Faerűn, while Shar's minions extend their holdings on the continent mostly uncontested. I'd like it. :) *copyright my MarkusTay63 :P
syl_karagh 10-01-07, 10:22 PM	Well my mother language is Spanish so don't expect a masterwork (on the other hand, expect a lot of mistakes :D ). The Shadow Plane is a mockery of the Material Plane, a twisted and dark place where all things seems to go wrong. But there is no place where true evil lies nor one where true goodness exist. So, lets assume they are like the ying-yang and procede with the theory; we retake this later. Abeir-Toril became Toril since Tearfall; and this time was the introduction of dragons in the world, coming from another "place", maybe an alternate universe. It could even means the world broke apart into two different worlds, each in its own universe and dragons were dropped in the world. Again, we'll retake this later. One more piece of information is explained in Lords of Madness; illithid reached the end of time and were looking for a way to change past so they traveled using spelljammers and ended in archaic eras in many worlds. They intended to change future but in the process they forgot everything, or at least they were "forced" to do so by an inexplicable event. Now take this as a whole and put it together along with the Spellplague for my crazy theory of the future Realms. Shar planed the fall of Mystra eons ago but was thwarted by events she could not foresaw; all things changed in the Time of Troubles when Mystra was killed not to being reborn by its own but to be replaced by a mere mortal who assumed the mantle of divinity and the task to watch over the Weave. She knew the facts that happened in Tearfall, a portal the size of a world opened and Abeir Toril was ripped in two and dragons came; so she planed to tear a hole in the Weave, hoping to destroy it along with the Shadow Weave. She knew that in the end the Plane of Shadow would merge with the Material Plane changing all that was known and plunging world into darkness. And she knew due to the long forgotten illithid records which explained that in the end of times no one was able to stop an evil entity that taked all existence into nothing. That evil entity was no other than Shar herself. Victory was assured from the beginning, and in the Year of the Blue Fire it was proved when Weave and Mystra ceased to exist, not to be renewed ever after. Well that's my crazy theory...if I deserve to die please do it quickly u.u...I can't stand long punishment:weep:
Questing GM 10-02-07, 01:01 AM	The Shadow Plane joins with the Material Plane ? The Far Realm joins with the the Forgotten ? :P
Rauric 10-02-07, 11:22 AM	Perhaps the continents that are not described have something to do with it? Maybe Mystra was holding back other forms of magic that could be found in those regions? Maybe something was locked away on those continents, and now with the Planes/God upheaval whatever is bound there is loose on the world?
MarkusTay63 10-02-07, 11:52 AM	Mystra 'shatters' into her original form - the world of Mystara! :eek: As the weave disolves, new continents and races appear, those that had been absorbed when the plane of Mystaraspace collapsed into itself like a Black Hole, and the being known as Mystryl was born into the Realms universe as a result.
syl_karagh 10-03-07, 02:06 AM	Well it seems my theory is not so crazy. I'd found a bit of lore in page140 of the Player's Guide to Faeűn. I hope wizards don't considere this as a violation but i need to quote what i found. Enjoy :D As described in Manual of the Planes, the Plane of Shadow constitutes the primary link between Toril’s planar cosmology and those of other worlds. The Plane of Shadow connects Toril’s Material Plane with those of other worlds, including the default world for the D&D core books—the World of Greyhawk. Naturally, in a land as full of magical portals as Faerűn is, unusual portals that connect to other Material Planes via conduits through the Plane of Shadow almost certainly exist. Some sages point to such connections as the source of spells named after the great wizards of Greyhawk, such as Otto’s irresistible dance, Otiluke’s freezing sphere, Tenser’s transformation, and the various Bigby’s hand spells. Coterminous to and coexistent with the Material Plane, Toril’s Plane of Shadow is more than just a transitive plane. While it can be used for travel, it is also the home of two Faerűnian deities, and thus it has some of the characteristics of an Outer Plane. It also holds conduits similar to those found on the Astral Plane that link Toril with other Material Planes and other worlds. SHADOW LINKS As a transitive plane, the Plane of Shadow is much like one infi nite link. Travelers can enter it from the Material Plane by casting shadow walk, or draw its substance into the Material Plane by means o f any illusion (shadow) spell. The P lane o f Shadow does not connect to the Ethereal Plane, but it does lead to alternate Material Planes.
18DELTA 10-03-07, 04:23 PM	Did you guys see in entry for 1357DR in A Grand History of the Realms The first entry that is for 1357DR.:eek:
Markustay 10-03-07, 05:49 PM	You know, that gives me a wonderful idea about how to prevent the Spellplague. Have your heroes travel to Earth and discover a copy of the GHotR, which they then bring home and pass on to Mystra's church! Thats it, game over! Shar and Cyric fail, and none of the other badness happens either. Brian James will forever more be known as The Man Who Saved the Realms. :dancin: Seriously though, I hope you don't think that Earth will merge with FR - I don't want no stinky, smelly Elves living in MY backyard. :rant: Guess I'll have to start loading up on Faerie Repellent. :P As far as GH merging, I'd say there is a good chance of that -or Faerie, or Mystara. As long as it's not the Shadoworld - I can pretty much gauruntee that will be the last nail in FR's coffin.
GothicDan 10-03-07, 05:51 PM	Guess I'll have to start loading up on Faerie Repellent. But what if I wanted to hang out with you? :(
Markustay 10-05-07, 03:04 PM	There's a big difference between being a Fairy and being gay, Dan. I think you of all people should know that. ;) Besides, you don't have cute little wings, do you? :P
MerrikCale 10-05-07, 09:30 PM	Besides, you don't have cute little wings, do you? :P what do you think?
GothicDan 10-05-07, 09:53 PM	If I had wings, they'd be big, gorgeous raptor wings - white or gold. Avariel Sun Elf. ;)
18DELTA 10-05-07, 11:55 PM	If I had wings, they'd be big, gorgeous raptor wings - white or gold. Avariel Sun Elf. ;) Go on admit it Gothic Dan, Your a Demonfey. Right?;)
GothicDan 10-06-07, 09:26 AM	No! Totally Aasimar.
18DELTA 10-07-07, 04:37 PM	No! Totally Aasimar. Well thats really disapointing!;) Ftw Forgotten Realms meets Birthright! Yuk!:pbbbtt: :surrender :allalone: :ahem: :yuck: :rolleye2: :raincloud :bored: :blush: :uh-huh: :rant: :nonono: :tantrum: :headexplo :banghead:
MarkusTay63 10-09-07, 12:16 AM	No! Totally Assimar.Corrected. :P :dancin: So I drove my bro-in-law to the airport, and then a couple days later picked him and his boyfriend up. The guy told my wife she was crazy for splitting with me - I still got it. :D <it had nothing to do with looks - I had him cracking up the whole ride home from JFK>
Stigger 10-09-07, 05:46 PM	They merge FR with the Old World of Darkness to bring the pathos, tragedy, and melodrama levels to unimaginable new heights (or depths perhaps) of depression and angst...
MarkusTay63 10-09-07, 06:32 PM	And then Riddick lands with a whole armada of Necromunger..... :cool:
Hopeless 10-09-07, 06:41 PM	[QUOTE=Markustay;13979895]You know, that gives me a wonderful idea about how to prevent the Spellplague. Have your heroes travel to Earth and discover a copy of the GHotR, which they then bring home and pass on to Mystra's church! QUOTE] Hold on as of last issue Elminster was routinely visiting Earth along with Mordenainen and Dal whatever his name was. Given his proclivities i think its a safe bet he got a copy... now what would he do with it? Oh yes pass it to Storm and let her read it! She'd probably laugh herself silly before going off to pass it onto her sisters, most likely Dove but I'm sure the Symbul would get it relatively quickly, quickly enough that she'll arrange a holiday just so she could watch Thay burn! At some point Laeral will get a copy and find out about her husband and THATS when Cyric needs to head for cover, even he isn't THAT daft to stick around when the woman who married Khelben Arunson decides to look for someone to blame... which probably explains the real reason Khelbun's dead as its the only way he can escape her, Kelemvor might be interested in exchanging Khelburn for that copy and THATS when it hits the fan for Shar & Co. The question is does he laugh himself silly at the notion Tymora is actually interested in Tyr or that Helm complains? I can just see him arranging the fight to take place in the dweomerheart and then make sure they know who's really responsible just as Cyric and Shar sneak up on Mystra only for the pair to discover there's now 4 gods present and 2 of them want to have a word with Cyric... perhaps that explain Ilmater leaving the triad since he felt what Cyric got and decided enough was enough... suffering that is...
18DELTA 10-10-07, 03:49 AM	And then Riddick lands with a whole armada of Necromunger..... :cool: Riddick FTW! You keep what you kill!;) :P
Lirdolin 10-10-07, 04:48 AM	I think i doesnt have to be the merging of two different game settings or Toril's shadowworld twin... If i read correctly in GHotR Evermeet was created by pulling a part of Arvandor into the Realms and fixing it by a massiv Weave-concentration. That event was called 'The Sundering'. If Evermeet gets pulled back to Arvandor by the destruction of the Weave, what will occupy it's space? Maybe the continents will be drawn together (again)? 'The Merging' of the 'New World' Maztica and 'The Old World' Faerun? Maybe this event will not go about as quitely as 'Oh, suddenly i can see the coast of Maztica on days with good weather, good for the merchants' ...maybe tidal waves will devaste the coasts an so on. It would also explain why the new 'Elven Realms' on the mainland are both 'protected' by those high magic trees...if Evermet is gone you will need to explain how these two highly magical realms weathered the Weaves destruction without going 'ka-boom' Best wishes Lirdolin
Stigger 10-10-07, 07:22 AM	Hmmm... that sounds strangely plausible actually... not sure if it qualifies as a crazy theory though. ;) :D
Alediran 10-10-07, 08:57 AM	If they do that, then no matter how good it's the 4ed FR, I'll not buy the new sourcebooks. Evermeet has to much importance for the setting, and the Sword Coast TOO. How could you make a pirates campaign without ocean?
Lirdolin 10-10-07, 12:42 PM	No, I didn't meant, that the Ocean would vanish completly, but maybe a large part of it, reducing the distance between the continents, at some points they might even touch. but I do believe, that this would still be catastrophic if Evermeet and Part of the sea vanished and the continents were drawn towards each other. Lirdolin
MarkusTay63 10-10-07, 12:54 PM	Hmmm... that sounds strangely plausible actually... not sure if it qualifies as a crazy theory though. ;) :DI've been espousing the notion of an "un-Sundering" for quite some time now, even before the entry in the GHotR that helps to verify my suspicions. According to THAT, the Weave maintains a piece of Arvandor in the Realms, which means if the Weave goes away there is a chance that the entire proto-continent will 'snap-back' to it's original shape, and history will be right again (the Elves changed history with their ritual). What we will end up with is a very different looking setting, with new races (ones that never got a chance when the world was changed) and new magical traditions, and perhaps some of the older races will have different names (the Eladrin?). Sounds a lot like 4e FR, huh? ;) It's just a theory, and GK has said that the entry in the GHotR may or may not be true - it's just one scholar's interpratation of the events. But it would explain MUCH, and they wouldn't need to move the timeline ahead a century to explain the changes. :dancin:
Stigger 10-11-07, 02:03 AM	Ever the optimist Markus... Not sure why, but when it comes to things I care about, I generally prefer to presume the worst is going to happen. That way if it doesn't I can be genuinely pleased that someone didn't live down to my expectations of them. Pity that doesn't happen too often where corporations are concerned...
Keahi19 10-11-07, 02:16 AM	Please may the merging of two worlds be figurtive language and not literal.
Selvarin 10-11-07, 04:54 AM	That would be...awful. Yet someone else pointed out the migration of elves back to Faerun, away from Evermeet. For what, to make Maztica and the like just a hop-skip-jump from the Moonshaes by removing Evermeet and some ocean? Bah. I wouldn't put it past 'em. Or to have Selune and her Tears fall into the ocean, wiping away the nearest landmasses with a super-tsunami and flames belching from the sky. But really, if 4e is coming to the Realms then why not have a bit more of Arvandor (a land of Faerie) imbue itself within the elven homelands? Perhaps the merging of worlds can be a strengthening of the essence of various races within their homelands...thus another rationale for 4e's racial class feats? But of course that would be a positive whereas the GHotR refers to this time as pretty gashdurnnnnned bad.
Keahi19 10-11-07, 10:02 AM	I'm hoping for more Lantan's. Of course if they merge Faerun and out Earth from the ancient times I'd be happy, though I'd call it copyright infringement against me. And there is always dark and light together. Unless the creators went EMO and want to see the whole world of FR as negative. In that case I'm out of here. I do like your idea though. It would be interesting to see them get closer with their home world.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-11-07, 10:31 AM	Please may the merging of two worlds be figurtive language and not literal. I doubt it, because "massive shake-ups" in the setting have become the norm.
Keahi19 10-11-07, 10:50 AM	I wish they would finish getting the proper sourcebooks before they did these MASSIVE changes. Maybe a portal will open and a bunch of British marines will invade and Martini-Henri rifles will be used to subjugate the primitives as trains are 15 minutes late.
MarkusTay63 10-11-07, 02:53 PM	Every single one of your posts, no matter what the topic, has been about Gond and/or bringing more technology into the Realms. You can play Iron Kingdoms, or Cthulhu by Gaslight, or Weird West/Deadlands D20, or 7th Sea/Swashbuckling Adventures D20, or even Warhammer RPG if you are looking for a little tech in your setting. You can convert 2e's wonderful Gothic Earth setting, or just play in Ravenloft (although it's pretty dark). You can even do a whole campaign based around Girl Genius (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/). Or you can just head over to Eberron and ride the Choo-choo. But FR doesn't need more tech - it has been one of the most important canon points since 1e - technology simply DOES NOT WORK in Realmspace. Gunpowder becomes non-functional, and any sort of technology based on electricity fails. Its part of the physics of the plane. ;)
Alediran 10-11-07, 02:56 PM	You could also play Mage: Ascension or Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade.
MarkusTay63 10-11-07, 03:03 PM	However, I have always thought that it was the Weave itself that interferred with technology (think of it as generating a tremendous low-grade EM pulse) - either on purpose or as a side-effect. With the Weave gone, ALL bets are off. Perhaps they are finally going to use the artwork that Todd Lockwood did for the 3e FRCG. (http://www.toddlockwood.com/galleries/dnd/03/firearms.shtml) ;)
Alediran 10-11-07, 03:11 PM	It wasn't the Weave, it was a decision made by the Greater Gods, but I don't remember when.
MarkusTay63 10-11-07, 03:24 PM	But since the Weave has been around since the Creation, the gods will could have been enforced by it.
Stigger 10-11-07, 04:45 PM	I really miss Sorcerer's Crusade... was the only line of products that wasn't murdered by the Gother-Than-Thou types.
Karsus the Mad 10-12-07, 11:34 AM	But FR doesn't need more tech - it has been one of the most important canon points since 1e - technology simply DOES NOT WORK in Realmspace. Gunpowder becomes non-functional, and any sort of technology based on electricity fails. Its part of the physics of the plane. Page 9, Running the Realms, 2eFRCS The physics of the Realms are slightly out of synchronization with the rest of the planes, so that many technological devices which operate on electronics do not function. Equivalent devices may be developed by player characters. DMs should put some thought into what they will allow into their campaign worlds. DMs may choose to eliminate the use of gunpowder (or its magical equivalent, smoke powder) from the Realms, at their option. Of course FR doesn't need more tech. Lantan simply needs to be suitably fleshed out to set the standards;)
Turin71 10-12-07, 01:25 PM	THIS (http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/Products/default.aspx?doc=959867200) should answer some of your questions. My newest theory, BTW, is that Abeir is the part of Toril that had advance up until the time of the Sundering. When the Elves High Magic Ritual reached back in time and changed the way the world formed, it actually created a divergent timeline (Toril). So we have two seprate FR's, and they will come crashing back together again when magic fails, causing a veritable 'Merging of two worlds'. With that, they can cover any changes they wish to make, and modify canon as they see fit. Anything could have arisen on that alternate Faerűn; Different magical traditions, new or different gods, Warforged, Changelings, Elves may have been called something else, Gnomes may never have achieved a place of prominence amongst the other races, Demons and Devils may have evolved into different creatures entirely... You see, using existing canon, one can go back and litterally 'erase' canon. I don't know if any of you noticed but one of the designers has mentioned that someone in this thread had figured it out and enworld.com believes this is the post that they were referring to. All speculation of course but nice jub anyway Markus.
ClobberinTime 10-12-07, 01:46 PM	The most obvious explanation I think, is the merging of the Shadow Plane and the Prime in Sembia, as part of 'Shadowstorm'.
MarkusTay63 10-12-07, 04:12 PM	I don't know if any of you noticed but one of the designers has mentioned that someone in this thread had figured it out and enworld.com believes this is the post that they were referring to. All speculation of course but nice jub anyway Markus.Thank You. :D Its the only thing that fits, would give us a canon explanation why so much is different, and would (thankfully) allow them to give us ancient magical traditions... in 1386 DR! I look at all we are given and break it down. It's how I always figure out movie mysteries as well. Writers and filmakers are both given the same constraint - they only have so much 'time' to give us the hints we need to figure it out. Weather its film or page counts doesn't matter - the devil is in the details. I've been studying all of the vingettes from the GHotR - I figure at least a few of them are hints of things to come. Like the roll of shadow years... you know... when Shar first found prophesy and figured out how to divert the timeline back down a path of HER choosing. :devil: Note she refers to the year of the ToT (The Year of Shadows) as the Year of Ascension - and we have been told that the Spellplague had its roots in the ToT. Maybe Shar was behind THAT whole thing, as well? She needed Cyric to ascend and help her kill Mystra... The old Shadowench has been planning this for quite some time. Also note the placement of the roll of Shadow years in the book - it's just before the revelations on the final page... and year 1385 is called The Year of Revelations...
Karsus the Mad 10-12-07, 08:38 PM	I don't know if any of you noticed but one of the designers has mentioned that someone in this thread had figured it out and enworld.com believes this is the post that they were referring to. All speculation of course but nice jub anyway Markus. Now when have FR designers ever known anything about what they design?;)
18DELTA 10-13-07, 01:00 AM	Thank You. :D Its the only thing that fits, would give us a canon explanation why so much is different, and would (thankfully) allow them to give us ancient magical traditions... in 1386 DR! I look at all we are given and break it down. It's how I always figure out movie mysteries as well. Writers and filmakers are both given the same constraint - they only have so much 'time' to give us the hints we need to figure it out. Weather its film or page counts doesn't matter - the devil is in the details. I've been studying all of the vingettes from the GHotR - I figure at least a few of them are hints of things to come. Like the roll of shadow years... you know... when Shar first found prophesy and figured out how to divert the timeline back down a path of HER choosing. :devil: Note she refers to the year of the ToT (The Year of Shadows) as the Year of Ascension - and we have been told that the Spellplague had its roots in the ToT. Maybe Shar was behind THAT whole thing, as well? She needed Cyric to ascend and help her kill Mystra... The old Shadowench has been planning this for quite some time. Also note the placement of the roll of Shadow years in the book - it's just before the revelations on the final page... and year 1385 is called The Year of Revelations... :bow: :king:
msatran 10-13-07, 02:30 PM	It's a great idea, except that this is a huge campaign destroyer. WHat's the point of playing your characters in the world if as soon as you hit 1385, the donkey crack spellplague takes over, turns your wizards into jello, and suddenly your clerics can't heal people because there's no weave. This is bloody awful. Retconn it. Please...please retconn it... Richard Baker Must Be Stopped!
18DELTA 10-13-07, 06:16 PM	Boy the worship of Shar is increasing 10fold on these boards. Still stinging from the loss of the Realms as we know it. Give in to the darkness, revel in the loss, Shar shall comfort thee. come over to the Lady of Loss FR fans!;) :P
msatran 10-14-07, 01:35 AM	And remember, kids. Rearrange the letters of shar to spell Rash. Because that's what this 4th edition FRCG sounds like. Richard Baker Must Be Stopped!
The Ubbergeek 10-14-07, 05:35 PM	you can't make omelette without breaking eggs. And often health issues are too serious to be ignored so they need an operation. Richard Baker must be adviced, simply.
johnkretzer 10-14-07, 05:54 PM	you can't make omelette without breaking eggs. And often health issues are too serious to be ignored so they need an operation. Richard Baker must be adviced, simply. Yeah but operating with a chainsaw is never recommanded. Well maybe once...:)
Suin Bahhar 10-14-07, 06:57 PM	*Rwrummmrmrmmm* Hear that? The chainsaw is already running. Better let Rich use it manually than letting it fall and saw eraticly.
The Ubbergeek 10-15-07, 03:11 AM	Yeah but operating with a chainsaw is never recommanded. Well maybe once...:) Considering the alternative - the Greyhawk death plague, HELL YEAH.
Selvarin 10-15-07, 03:22 AM	Poor, poor Greyhawk...although I will say I like how they're handling the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth in the latest Dungeon online mag/adventure. Whenever I see something like that I think, "Awwww..." Maybe it's just nostalgia.
18DELTA 10-15-07, 04:28 PM	And remember, kids. Rearrange the letters of shar to spell Rash. Because that's what this 4th edition FRCG sounds like. Richard Baker Must Be Stopped! I gotza rash wanna see it?:D msatran must be stopped!!!!!!!!!!!;) :P :looloo: :tiphat:
johnkretzer 10-15-07, 05:03 PM	Considering the alternative - the Greyhawk death plague, HELL YEAH. Grehawk was put on the criticle list by FR(because it was a better setting)...then the RPGA finished it.
Karsus the Mad 10-15-07, 08:17 PM	And remember, kids. Rearrange the letters of shar to spell Rash. Because that's what this 4th edition FRCG sounds like. You also get Hars...Arsh....Hsar...Shra....they don't mean anything, but that's what you get:P Richard Baker Must Be Stopped! You're too mature for this.
Stigger 10-16-07, 03:36 AM	:banghead: tends to sum up how I feel about your theory there Markus, on both counts of it. I don't think you're wrong mind you, at least not by much if you are, but the idea of that being the case is almost enough to make me want to shed salt tears...
Selvarin 10-16-07, 03:55 AM	Watch it, we'll be 'fired' as fans and just get stuck watching from the side as the 4e Forgotten Realms short bus crashes into a telephone pole on its test drive. :( Probably powered on pickle juice.
Stigger 10-16-07, 07:31 AM	If it goes along with Markus' theory, I'm resigning as a FR fan long before it comes to being fired... at least in its 4e incarnation.
18DELTA 10-16-07, 10:44 AM	Now we understand how an athlete feels, when they turn 30something and gets cut for a 21year old rookie with half the talent.;) :P
MarkusTay63 10-16-07, 11:24 AM	The way I look at it, either they use the 'Sunder-switch' and retcon everything to the new rules, or they give us a century or more where those changes could have taken place. If they go the 'time-route', like we are frightened they will do, it won't explain the changes to the map they are wanting to incorporate. Making changes to the past so we wind up with a different future may be more dramatic, but I personally feel it is the 'easier' on us - instead of 'WoD' we get alternate FR. The only thing I'm still worried about at this point is that they will do both - change the past AND leap ahead a century, which would be far too much change all at once. I can't really complain about them using the 'butterfly effect', nor should the rest of you, because nothing makes us cry louder then when they make changes WITHOUT an explanantion. Great Tree, anyone? :bored: Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up - more of 'morbid curiousity' then enthusiasm at this point, though.
Turin71 10-16-07, 02:06 PM	It's a great idea, except that this is a huge campaign destroyer. WHat's the point of playing your characters in the world if as soon as you hit 1385, the donkey crack spellplague takes over, turns your wizards into jello, and suddenly your clerics can't heal people because there's no weave. This is bloody awful. Retconn it. Please...please retconn it... Richard Baker Must Be Stopped! I'm sure they will have ways around this. I sincirely don't think they expect everyone to have to kill off their PCs in order to make the switch to 4th ed. I understand the mechanics difference will require you to rewrite it but I don't see why you will be forced to play another character all together.
MarkusTay63 10-16-07, 02:08 PM	If they jump the timeline ahead a century or more, which they very well might, then you may just have to kill off your character (or put him in stasis).
Alediran 10-16-07, 02:13 PM	I'm sure they will have ways around this. I sincirely don't think they expect everyone to have to kill off their PCs in order to make the switch to 4th ed. I understand the mechanics difference will require you to rewrite it but I don't see why you will be forced to play another character all together. That is actually what they said. Finish your campaign. We won't give you a 4ed conversion guide... blah blah blah
18DELTA 10-16-07, 02:24 PM	If they jump the timeline ahead a century or more, which they very well might, then you may just have to kill off your character (or put him in stasis). Captin America FTW!!! The Red Skull must be stopped!!!:D I know its getting old, but it so fun!!!:P
Stigger 10-16-07, 03:04 PM	Indeed.... the likelihood of me investing in 4e grows slimmer and slimmer by the day it seems...
MarkusTay63 10-16-07, 11:57 PM	I'll buy the FRCG, just to see how much they trashed. After that, it depends on THEM.
Stigger 10-17-07, 01:12 AM	Why buy it when the LGS lets you sit there for as long as you like, and even gives you comfy chairs to do it in? Well, at least they do here... ;)
Selvarin 10-17-07, 01:24 AM	B&N allows it as well. And if one waits long enough it'll get eBay'd cheap. With enough disgruntled (former) fans, they should sell for about $10-$15 after a month. ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-17-07, 09:35 AM	I'll buy the FRCG, just to see how much they trashed. I'll admit that a part of me wants to do that (will curiosity overcome indignant resolve?). Another part of me quickly says: "There are other ways of finding out what happened that DON'T require purchasing that book." Besides, some people here are saying "you'll all buy it anyway"--I would love to prove them wrong.
Alediran 10-17-07, 09:57 AM	Well, there is a way to read the book without buying it first. It's the only way I can check if the book is good or not before buying it in Argentina because the LGSs sells them closed and can't be read.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-17-07, 10:38 AM	I won't read the whole book in the store or anything (I believe that's wrong, and besides I don't have that kind of time), but I WILL peek at it there, definitely.
MarkusTay63 10-17-07, 03:33 PM	Ugh. :uh-huh: I hate when I go to Borders and the aisles are filled with people sitting on the floor reading books - it's just rude. The (cheap) adults take the books over to the tables in the coffee shop area, but the younger folks sit on the floor and read. It's especially bad because the anime is kept opposite of the Fantasy in the same isle, so you get a plethora of teenage oriental girls sitting on the floor, who you have to maneuver around to find what you want. Ya know... now that I think about it... I actually LIKE that part.... :smirk:
Selvarin 10-17-07, 03:38 PM	I'm sure a lot of us do.
18DELTA 10-17-07, 05:21 PM	Ugh. :uh-huh: I hate when I go to Borders and the aisles are filled with people sitting on the floor reading books - it's just rude. The (cheap) adults take the books over to the tables in the coffee shop area, but the younger folks sit on the floor and read. It's especially bad because the anime is kept opposite of the Fantasy in the same isle, so you get a plethora of teenage oriental girls sitting on the floor, who you have to maneuver around to find what you want. Ya know... now that I think about it... I actually LIKE that part.... :smirk: Question are the "teenage oriental girls" in Catholic school girl outfits?:D I am one sick puppy!
MarkusTay63 10-17-07, 05:24 PM	I think I'm helping to highjack my own thread with that last post, plus it got my mind traveling down an unsavory path. :P So, to sum everything up so far, we have the following theories - 1) The other world its merely 'poetic license', and may even refer to the Orcs being accepted. 2) An alternate world will merge with FR, which could be something new, or even Greyhawk or Mystara. 3) Fäerie returns somehow, or at least a dimension where the Fey have been kickin' back. 4) An alternate timeline merges back with the current one, and the world gets ret-conned. I listed them in what I percieve as a reverse order of probability. The first seems least likely, becasue of the hints concerning 'Abeir'. The last seems most likely, because the word 'mutable' in the final GHotR entry indicates sweeping changes to the world as we know it. So, were there any that do not fit into the above categories? Remember, an alternate plane, or even demi-plane, would constitute #2, so that would cover any sort of 'Shadoworld' scenario. Question are the "teenage oriental girls" in Catholic school girl outfits? I am one sick puppy!If they were, I would have to avoid the place entirely... or get in trouble. ;) Damn You! Stop making me think of it again! :banghead:
Stigger 10-17-07, 05:37 PM	C'mon Markus... you know you want your mind wandering down that aisle... don't be a weenie. ;) :D
Dark Wizard 10-17-07, 10:04 PM	It's especially bad because the anime is kept opposite of the Fantasy in the same isle, so you get a plethora of teenage oriental girls sitting on the floor, who you have to maneuver around to find what you want. Ya know... now that I think about it... I actually LIKE that part.... :smirk: Ah, reminds me of my days as a B&N bum, oh wait, I still do that on occasion. So Markus, is this the secret to your interest in Kara-Tur? :P The manga I mean ... yeah, the manga...
MerrikCale 10-17-07, 10:45 PM	I'll buy the FRCG, just to see how much they trashed. After that, it depends on THEM. ditto
18DELTA 10-17-07, 11:13 PM	Well the title of this thread is "Merging of two worlds - Crazy Theories". I know these two little oriental sisters! Their from Japan, I would like for my world to merge with theirs!:D Wink, wink, wink!!!
meto30 10-17-07, 11:18 PM	Toril can merge with Typemoon world. Then Nas Kinoko will ensure nothing makes sense. It will accomplish the apparent objective of the 4e story changes. Kelemvor: "I'm seeing lines and dots in everything!" (takes on a pair of glasses) "Much better now!" Gilgeam: "Every artifact, every treasure once belonged to me. They didn't, actually, but that's lore, and lore's all that matters!"
Suin Bahhar 10-18-07, 08:38 AM	Why do I have the feeling my heads spinning? Forgotten Realms and Thundercats merging, baby! Give me sight beyond sight. Rawr!
Turin71 10-18-07, 09:08 AM	If they jump the timeline ahead a century or more, which they very well might, then you may just have to kill off your character (or put him in stasis). I was under the impresion that this will all happen 10 years from now not 100. I know there is a book set 100 years in the future but there is no confirmation that the FRCS will be set 100 years from now.
Stigger 10-18-07, 09:32 AM	Nope, we just know that there's going to be a time leap from everything said so far by the devs... no clue as to how big of a jump though. 10 years or 100 years seem to be the most common thoughts, though I don't know if any definite numbers have been given out one way or another. Quite possible even WotC isn't completely sure about it either really...
18DELTA 10-18-07, 10:32 AM	We like beating a dead horse! Its our way of whipping this forum into an anti WotC frenzy!:D I have no clue what type of time line jump the living realms will make?;) :P
Stigger 10-19-07, 01:48 AM	You're not doing your job there and feeding the frenzy you know... neither was I, but that's not my job, so :P
MarkusTay63 10-19-07, 08:29 PM	Some of the things that have been linked together lately in the 'rumor mill' has been the Sundering, the 'Draco-laser' from Pg. 48 of the GHotR, and the entry for -31,000 when the stars changed. All of which are being used to explain the final entry in the GHotR, where the world changes and becomes 'mutable'. One person came up with the idea of Evermeet actually being Tintageer! At first, I thought it was a cool concept, but not much more. But it got me thinking... Elven High Magic always appears to have consequences when used. I figure it has to do with some sort of 'Cosmic Balance' or some such - When the Elves alter reality on that grand a scale, something, somewhere has to give a little to make the effect come about. Who knows? Maybe when the Elves cast the spell that washed away Jhaamdath, it set into motion the events that lead up to the fall of Myth Drannor. Anyhow, when we 'connect the dots', it appears very likely that Evermeet IS indeed part of Fäerie, as per the vingette on pg. 11. We also know that Tintageer was an Island nation, and part of Fäerie. Another theory being bandied about concerning 'Abeir' is that it is a return of the Fey (and their plane) by way of a greater connectivity between Toril and Fäerie via the elaborate system of gates that are prevalent in the setting. When we stitch all of this together, then it seems likely that Tintageer was NOT rippped apart by the Elves enemies, but rather by their own mis-use of High Magic to alter the reality of Faerűn so that a piece of their homeland would exist there. Its one of those 'time-paradoxes' - their fleeing to Toril caused them to use the magic which inadvertantly caused them to flee to Toril in the first place. So once the 'Sunder-Switch' is thrown, then perhaps the High Magic will unravel, Tintageer will NOT sink, the Elves will NOT flee to Toril, and the world will be restored to it's original pristine state. Also, the Elves NOT leaving Fäerie in -25,400 DR will have DRAMATIC effects on Faerűn's history (the 4e changes), and the Moon and Gold Elves themselves may have evolved into something completely different (like Eladerin? ;) ). Just another twist to some of the current theories, and not entirely my own. The 'Draco-Laser' and the events of -31,000 may both be unrelated to these other events, and to each other. It would seem a little odd if the Dragons also caused their own 'creation' on Toril, but with the Elves 'twisting time', who knows what else may have been effected? :confused:
Selvarin 10-19-07, 10:16 PM	Great. So we'll have eladrin as the sun elves, with 'regular' 4e elves being moon elves but stronger wood elf themes...and no wood elves or wild elves. Plus, with no Crown Wars there will be no Descent, per se, with the likely result that the Ilythiir split into drow and dark elves, with an unending(?) civil war. Just a thought.
Stigger 10-20-07, 04:25 AM	That is not a bad theory Markus... not sure they're gonna be creative enough for it, but I like it for what its worth...
Rauric 10-20-07, 07:15 AM	It sounds like you think things will be retconned perhaps. Why exactly?
Rauric 10-20-07, 09:00 AM	Maybe Abeir is Faeire or another planar world?
Selvarin 10-20-07, 03:27 PM	Another possible is that once the 'merging of worlds' occurs perhaps all those places on the map that mysteriously shrank will expand to their (pre 3e FR) proportions. Maybe?
MarkusTay63 10-21-07, 04:34 AM	If they go the 'century route', then no time-paradox or any other 'alternate-reality' scenario is neccessary - we will have plenty of time to develop the new magical traditions that 4e is all about. I would say that would be the more logical and simpler conclusion, BUT we also have the information at the end of the GHotR about the "destruction of the old world and the beginning of the new". That, and the use of the word 'mutable' in the sentence before indicates the maps themselves are going to change, and that would take much more then just a hundred years to happen, even with magic. Also, they are ret-conning Elves, Demons, Devils, etc... and the entire cosmology. In order to change what the Elves ARE, we have to assume some major ret-conning is taking place, and the ONLY IG explanation I can come up with is that the Sundering unravels OR another dimension impinges on Toril, be it Faerie or someplace else called 'Abeir'. Like in the DC comics Crisis series, merging the worlds together will allow major retconning to the world's history, which explains EVERYTHING we have heard about 4e - including the strange spoiler regarding the "disasterous merger of two worlds". Personally, I would rather see a creative and magical reason for the retcon, rather then a century of strife. Besides ******* everyone off with a huge leap forward, it is also pretty uncreative and just plain 'meh'. :rolleyes:
18DELTA 10-21-07, 10:49 AM	But havent we come to expect uncreative ideas from the WotC Realms overlords?;) :P I mean what you propose is... I dont know... its sounds pretty stupid! This is D&D not the comic book industry!;) :P Alass maybe the almighty Ed can save the Realms? Ed your our only hope!:help: My :twocents:
Zsych 10-22-07, 03:29 AM	I'd say a change in the nature of magic would account for all possible changes in the nature of elves. A different type of magic effecting that magic processing center of their brains could be having any number of effects on them :P -------------- Hmmm.... it occurs to me(possibly said by someone else here before), that the joining of the two worlds could just be greater interaction with all of Toril that was previously hidden. Those civilizations that no one on Faerun really knows about, could be considered another world.
Selvarin 10-22-07, 05:47 AM	Markus still the closest to the mark. Who knows, maybe on the positive(?) side we'll see the maps redrawn with more 'monster' nations. Perhaps an expanded dwarven nation east of Tethyr and Calimshan as well. Maybe another hidden city or two will come back into this dimension, such as one hidden city that Selune sent elsewhere (and no don't shoot me for not getting that straight, it's too early in the morning for me to re-read the texts...). Hey...perhaps the Forest of Mir will become a true drow/dark elf homeland of sorts. (Not for the good sort of course.) All kinds of possibilities that were nipped in the bud a few editions ago by other writers may get their chance to grow. Aside from the "Let's kill Mystra" hogwattle. I doubt I'll approve of who they choose for the next goddess of magic.
MarkusTay63 10-22-07, 08:22 PM	I never said the new setting would be a bad thing. I have high hopes that it will be excellent, especially with the rules and world built from the ground up, as was done with Eberron. Some of the new concepts sound pretty cool, especially the cosmology. I can't wait to see it. :) But it WON'T be FR.... ;) But havent we come to expect uncreative ideas from the WotC Realms overlords?No, I've come to expect QUALITY from a company and game I have been dedicated to and following for the last thirty years. They don't always hit the mark - in fact, they quite often fall short of it. But there are a few gems in 3e, and overall I was happy with most of what was produced.
18DELTA 11-01-07, 12:44 PM	Bruce Cordells new book Stardeep answers this question!:D Its a pretty good book so far!:coolcthul
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-01-07, 01:57 PM	Bruce Cordells new book Stardeep answers this question!:D Its a pretty good book so far!:coolcthul I guess this is yet another novel I'll have to consider "non-canon" for my Realms, then.
18DELTA 11-01-07, 02:39 PM	It explains Abeir-Toril, and why the Star Elves left! So far that is.;) Its a pretty good book so far.:D To each their own I guess?;)
Alediran 11-01-07, 02:51 PM	Spoil us something, here I don't get books until many years pass.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-01-07, 03:23 PM	Agreed, I think you should at least explain a bit more if you are going to tease us with it.
18DELTA 11-02-07, 12:30 AM	"You cant imagine. But the Cerulean Sign was forged to oppose creatures that oozed down from mad realms to colonize Abeir-Toril. To a large extent, those long-vanished defenders of the virgin world succeeded. Abominations, both godlike and inconsequential, were pushed back. Abeir was forgotten. Mortal races eventually inherited the earth." "In a hidden realm where elves dwell, within the Yuirwood, a man succumbed to this very seduction. He was branded the traitor, and he was locked away in a dungeon forever. The name of that dungeon is Stardeep-" "The Cerulean Sign is a rune of power created when things were not as they are today. Before men, or even elves walked the world, when continents were divided differently than now, entities strange and powerful fought. When the future was a toss-up between sanity and abomination." The traitor wants to release the abominations. Aboleths are the abominations, ancient evil aboleths trapped in a cyst deep under Faerun called Xxiphu. Another world. Sorry people all our theories were wrong. So in summery, the Cerulean Sign keeps the aboleths at bay. The traitor want to release them. So he is imprisoned in the dungeon called Star Deep. Its in the Yuirwood, the Star Elves left so it can be built, and they guard it. Happy now, so far its a good book.:) The Realms have more pressing matters than The Kingom of Many Arrows!!!:D
Selvarin 11-02-07, 12:35 AM	If I'm not mistaken Drizzt mentions aboleths taking over Luskan in The Orc King. So there's at least one place where they get to latch on.
BadCatMan 11-02-07, 12:47 AM	Comments related to 18DELTA's Stardeep spoilers: It wasn't really stated where the Aboleths came in The Orc King prologue. The Keepers Of The Cerulean Sign appear in Lords Of Madness by Richard Baker et al. There's little solid info there, and nothing related to FR. The picture and sample NPC show an elf.
18DELTA 11-02-07, 12:48 AM	I am only about 100 pages into it. Star Deep that is. One of the characters forsee a successful escape attempt of the aboleths about a century in the future. So I now belive the FRCG will have a 100 year jump in it. :mad: I hope I am wrong, but it does make sense, thematically. The Spellplague is going to really tear-up the Realms.:( Reading this book is making me realize whats really going to happen.:(
Selvarin 11-02-07, 01:08 AM	Nice to see C&B hacking with their axes in tandem--er, working together in bringing a new wonderful era to Faerun. :twitch:
18DELTA 11-02-07, 01:16 AM	Hopefully Ed can make sense out of this mess? He may let them screw it up, so it wont be supported, so he can get it back. I pray for a wake up in the middle of a shower scene!!! Then again I could be wrong. I will probably start a Star Deep Spoiler thread when I am done reading the book. Its a pretty good book. Its just that wow what it reveals is heavy.:detect: :twitch: :blink: :88E: :coolcthul
Selvarin 11-02-07, 01:31 AM	There's no "letting" involved. WotC owns the official printed Realms. They merely pay Ed for things when he has the time to write for them. So far we have several things happening: 1) The (laughable) murder of Mystra, the loss of the Weave, and the onset of the Spellplague; 2) Shar apparently finding a way to prevent--or twist the effects of--the Sundering; 3) The loss of the "tree view' of the planes due to 1) above, everything swishing into the Astral Sea; 4) The return of abolyths when Abeir merges with Toril once more. All we need is some magical force killing everyone's firstborn and a plague of locusts, we should be set. I think we'll find out more when book 2 in the Empyrean Odyssey arrives this month. Makes me wonder if that's the vehicle for bringing about a tiefling/demon kingdom into the Realms,as well as a sneak peak into how Cyric gets put in place to murder Mystra. Maybe. Big maybe.
Stigger 11-02-07, 02:20 AM	Sounds amazingly psuedo-Lovecraftian... so definitely something for me to skip if that's the case. I can't stand Lovecraft... just bores me to tears.
18DELTA 11-02-07, 02:34 AM	I keep seeing that scene from "Hellboy the movie". You know when the portal is opened and the tentacles start coming out of it.:eek: :88E:
Stigger 11-02-07, 02:43 AM	Yeah, me too... was a good movie except for that part. Yawn...
18DELTA 11-02-07, 02:50 AM	Yeah, me too... was a good movie except for that part. Yawn... Right!!!:) Why am I getting the impression that its The Forgotten Realms meets the Far Realms in The 4E Realms?:rolleyes: Next thing you know the will buy up Goodman Games and add The Known Realms to it. :88E:
Selvarin 11-02-07, 03:12 AM	As the designers will note, you don't have to use all of it. But please buy their book. No, really. ;) I dunno. I had enough when the phaerimms ran amok over the Realms. Am I supposed to like this even better?
johnkretzer 11-02-07, 03:22 AM	Sounds amazingly psuedo-Lovecraftian... so definitely something for me to skip if that's the case. I can't stand Lovecraft... just bores me to tears. Well I agree with you there...sigh. Well this is pure speculation I just continue having to say what are they thinking? Then I relize oh wait they are thinking their ideas are suprerior to what has come before...and well we will just steanroller the old plot. But with what is going on I think the new alignment system will be the really old D&D system.
18DELTA 11-02-07, 03:23 AM	Maybe The Thornbacks are agents of the WotC Aboleth overlords? The Aboleths are coming! Maybe this truly unites Toril against Abeir? I didnt realize that the spellplague was going to unleash Abeir against Toril!:eek: :88E:
Selvarin 11-02-07, 03:26 AM	Oh cool! Sounds like a rugby match made in Heck. *referring to Abeir kicking off against Toril*
18DELTA 11-02-07, 03:35 AM	Kinda like the beatdown the Pats put on the Skins last weekend huh? I just realized I was right when about 2 months ago I was saying that the aboleths would use the spellplague to attack the Realms. I didnt realize they were Abeir!!! The aboleths are coming, the aboleths are coming!!! I feel like Paul Revere, riding to warn Faerun! The aboleths are coming!!!:eek: :looloo: :blink: :gah: :uh-huh: :88E: Ps this may just be a knee jerk over reaction on my part.
Stigger 11-02-07, 06:37 AM	Take a deep breath, cut down on the caffeine, move away from the novel slowly... there, that's better... Personally, if this whole aberration invasion thing is their idea of something new and "Cool", then I'm utterly and completely disgusted and likely never darkening 4e's doorway with my presence. The whole aberration-fascination thing just leaves me cold to begin with... I've yet to figure out the attraction of the entire mania to be honest.
Alediran 11-02-07, 09:08 AM	Take a deep breath, cut down on the caffeine, move away from the novel slowly... there, that's better... Personally, if this whole aberration invasion thing is their idea of something new and "Cool", then I'm utterly and completely disgusted and likely never darkening 4e's doorway with my presence. The whole aberration-fascination thing just leaves me cold to begin with... I've yet to figure out the attraction of the entire mania to be honest. I've found out why! Richard Baker is a Cthulhu cultist and he wants to bring the aberrations to the world to make it mad. This will tear the barriers (like in Ascension, the final Mage book) and his god can come to devour us all.
Stigger 11-02-07, 09:26 AM	That thought had crossed my mind, but I was trying to ignore the little voice that said they were ripping off M:tA as badly as they seem to be...
Alediran 11-02-07, 09:58 AM	That thought had crossed my mind, but I was trying to ignore the little voice that said they were ripping off M:tA as badly as they seem to be... *A very devout person shouts to everybody around* -All our fears have come true, let us repent for our sins so we can enter heaven. Don't fall into temptation, the creators are corrupt! *Religious rabble continues for days*
MarkusTay63 11-02-07, 10:09 AM	I can think of a half-dozen settings they are ripping off for this one. :( Sorry people all our theories were wrong.Actually, long before I came up with the 'Un-Sundering', I said maybe "Abeir" stood for Abeirations - it may have even been my original theory. I still like the 'Un-Sundering' better, though. Wasn't Eberron overun by Aberrations way back in it's past, who were then locked-up far below the earth? WotC seems to be even ripping themselves off, these days. :bored: Really - from all appearances it sounds like the 'team' sat down and figured out what made each of a dozen other setttings 'cool', and then distilled out that 'cool' part to use in the new FR (Far Realms?). The only problem with that is that instead of winding up with the 'Ultimate Cool' they were looking for, they wind up with a horrible mish-mosh of disparate lore. Whatever... It sounds like a plot out of Goosebumps to me.... :rolleyes:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-02-07, 11:33 AM	Sounds amazingly psuedo-Lovecraftian... so definitely something for me to skip if that's the case. I can't stand Lovecraft... just bores me to tears. I respect Bruce Cordell as a person, but I don't think his novels feel very Realmish. He is definitely the type to inject spacey, sci/fi-ish or Lovecraftian stuff into his stories. For example, his last novel Darkvision had a good story, but I didn't think it fit into the Realms very well at all. I just got this new novel (Stardeep), and flipped through it a bit. The style was pretty much what I expected from him. Delta, thank you for the spoilers. :) For the record, I did actually find that page you mentioned. It doesn't tell us much, but I didn't care for what I've seen. At all.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-02-07, 11:37 AM	I think we'll find out more when book 2 in the Empyrean Odyssey arrives this month. Interestingly enough, there is a group called the "Empyrean Knights" in Stardeep. I'm only about 11 pages in so far though. PS: I think book 2 comes out next November.
MarkusTay63 11-02-07, 11:40 AM	I like Cordell's writing, and I personally enjoyed the Far Realms tie-ins developed in Dark Vision. Maybe it's because it meshes so well with what we came up with in the Utter East thread, so I'm not entirely impartial in that regard. Personally, I think the man can come up with a great setting for next Aug. But it WON'T be FR.... ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-02-07, 11:43 AM	Indeed, the official Realms setting seems to have truly jumped the shark at this point.
MarkusTay63 11-02-07, 11:46 AM	Is there any info about what 'Empyrean' actually stands for? :confused:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-02-07, 11:55 AM	Is there any info about what 'Empyrean' actually stands for? :confused: As of right now, I have no clue. The word confused me when it first appeared (on Thomas M. Reid's novels), and flipping through Stardeep has not enlightened me about it either (I just see pages and pages of weird Lovecraftian sci/fi...stuff).
MarkusTay63 11-02-07, 12:07 PM	Yeah - I'm thinking it's an old Le'Shay name or group that basically 'mucked around' at the beginning of time. Remember, the Al-Qahera Elves from Darkvision appear to be related to the Star Elves in some fashion, and the Star Elves themselves have always been described as more 'Fey-like' then other Elven types. Star Elves may very well be the Elven equivalent of the "Missing Link".
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-02-07, 12:26 PM	Star Elves may very well be the Elven equivalent of the "Missing Link". That'd be kind of annoying--a form of designer hubris, in fact. Consider that star elves are Mr. Cordell's creation (IIRC).
18DELTA 11-02-07, 12:36 PM	The traitor is a Star Elf, who serves the Abloethic Soverngty(sp). Star Deep is a prison that a part of the Star Elf Realms, yet seperate. The Nilishi are agents of the traitor and the aboleths trying to destory the Star elf Realm. Its very SCI-FI Rino. The prison also has entrances on Toril, in the Yuirwood(Sunglade everyone?) They are coming!!!:eek:
MarkusTay63 11-02-07, 12:39 PM	Just the name - Star Elves - sounds too Sci-Fi to me. Maybe they used to be part of the Imperial Elven Armada. Hmmmm... 'Imperial'... 'Empyrean'.... :plotting:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-02-07, 02:11 PM	Indeed, it's all very sci/fi to me, and not necessarily in a good way. By the way, did I mention that I hate the word "LeShay"?
Selvarin 11-02-07, 03:18 PM	It's hard not to be derivative these days. At the same time, ugh... I believe you're refering to the sharn and the phaerimms, Markus. The phaerimm were due to be a big problem until the sharn blocked them off. And then there were the beholder kingdoms...*hmm*... As for the name 'star elf', we also have sun elves and moon elves so it fits a given naming theme for those elven subraces. As long as we don't have 'comet' elves and 'asteroid' elves...in which case it goes beyond curious to downright corny.
MarkusTay63 11-02-07, 04:51 PM	I think part of the Realms flavor is that it has had numerous encounters with creatures and folk from 'elsewhere' (hence the name). Normally I don't mind this sort of 'other-worldy' invasiveness - I love Malaugryms - but anything with psionics just tends to smack a little too much like Sci-Fi to me. But that might be my own personal prejudices coming through again.
msatran 11-02-07, 05:26 PM	If I want Cthulhu, I'll PLAY Cthulhu. The Nilshai as agents of Aboleths? Ridiculous. I am pretty sure at this point my game is either staying 3.5 or I will never play in the Realms again. Only a miracle of the most amazing sort can save this game.
Stigger 11-02-07, 05:46 PM	I never want Cthulu... or however you spell that. It only works when you don't see the monster... show the monster and it's just stupid. Maybe I'll come up with some cute cuttlefish-like monster that eats aboleth and illithids, but who's otherwise very friendly and social, just to make myself feel better...
Selvarin 11-02-07, 06:06 PM	I don't bother with psionics, I'm happy enough with aboleths and mindflayers utilizing spell-like abilities which mimic the desired effect.
18DELTA 11-02-07, 06:16 PM	Well I just finished reading Star Deep!!! Pretty good book. The traitor is still imprisoned, his plan to be released came to naught!!! The aboleth soverignty is still imprisoned by the Cerulean Sign, for now. The aboleth city of Xxiphu, hasnt risen in Faerun, yet!!! The Spellplague awaits, us all in 4E!!! They are coming!!!:eek: :rimshot:
Dark Wizard 11-02-07, 11:12 PM	I think I go against the grain. I like premise of Bruce Cordell's Darkvision, but I found the writing drab (especially the dialogue and inner monologues) and half the characters too bland but I like the set up and the other half of the characters. I'm usually okay with even a decent amount of the Far Realms, dark fantasy, Cthulhoid/Lovecraftian stuff. One of the things I've always wanted for the published Realms was for someone like Bruce Cordell to revamp a bit of the setting's aberration-Cthulhoid-psionics area since it seemed FR typically just borrows whatever the core offers and half-heartedly at best. The only problem is if he's like one of the top three FR guys for 4E, that means we might be getting too much of this stuff.
MarkusTay63 11-03-07, 12:43 AM	I'm certainly no expert on Lovecraft, but wasn't Cthulhu just an ancient priest of the Elder Gods, but not a god himself? Sort of like a level 300 cleric in game terms, but certainly not divine. Hastur was the God, I believe. So, Xxiphu is the FR team's super creative version of R'lyeh? Hmmmm.... This new edition seems more about what individual people thought were cool from other works they read, and then just pasted it into FR. If I want Cthulhu, I'll PLAY Cthulhu. The Nilshai as agents of Aboleths? Ridiculous. I am pretty sure at this point my game is either staying 3.5 or I will never play in the Realms again. Only a miracle of the most amazing sort can save this game.I think instead of moving forward to 4e, this latest info might drive me all the way back to 1e. :bored: So far I like the rules and the cosmology, but it doesn't sound like I'm going to like these new Realms one bit. It's not that I don't like Cthulhu or any of the other fantasy sources they are apparently ripping-off, but if all they can do is copy & paste, well.... that just doesn't sound very creative to ME. :( Besides, why not have used Illithids for this? They are much cooler, and a D&D iconic monster. Aboleths are just SO silly I can't stomach them.
Stigger 11-03-07, 02:31 AM	I don't think anything is ever going to get me back to 1e/2e rules... not even this bizarre Lovecraft phase...
MarkusTay63 11-03-07, 10:01 AM	No 2e ! <shudder> A still have nightmares about being chased by a giant THACO! :eek:
GothicDan 11-03-07, 10:06 AM	ZOmg Thac0 is so hard! Whiners! *Goes back to Non-Euclidean Geometry stuff.*
MarkusTay63 11-03-07, 10:29 AM	I'm good at Math... REALLY good. Maybe not Quantum Physics good, but definately better then the average Joe. When I ran 2e in every instance I 'guest DM'd' someone else's campaign - I never ran my own in 2e! Why? Because THACO was just too complicated... I co-DM'd every adventure, and while I did the storyline, the other, regular, DM for the group would do all the number-crunching for me. Not that I couldn't do it, it would just take me 2 hours to run a simple 5-minute combat. I suppose if I cut my gaming teeth on 2e, as the groups I DM'd did, it wouldn't have been so alien to me. I ran several other systems before then, including earlier iterations of D&D, and ALL of them were WAY simpler, at least to me. On Topic: Anyway, it appears that the Aberrations will be the Abeir part of the mystery... <yawn> I was hoping the "merging of two worlds" would be something better. Oh well... I hope the Aboleths enjoy their world... and I hope WotC can find enough Aboleth players to buy it. :smirk: They really do think we are just mindless Skum... ;)
Suin Bahhar 11-03-07, 11:10 AM	I could like a dark renaissance setting, if I wanted to play Ravenloft. Ebberon also has the Xoriat abberation movement going so this aboleth thing really feels to alien for the realms to be a prominent storyline. I prefer more humanoid threats, at least on the surface.
Andyr 11-04-07, 08:06 AM	I'm certainly no expert on Lovecraft, but wasn't Cthulhu just an ancient priest of the Elder Gods, but not a god himself? Sort of like a level 300 cleric in game terms, but certainly not divine. Hastur was the God, I believe. So, Xxiphu is the FR team's super creative version of R'lyeh? Hmmmm.... I'm also not a Lovecraft expert (but am quite a fan); that sounds basically correct to me. Although there were multiplie entities which could be considered deities (not just Hastur), I don't think Lovecraft considered any of them explicitly divine (just cosmic horrors). I also don't know how later Mythos writers may have changed things, as I've only read HPL's stuff. I might read Stardeep, then. Darkvision is currently about halfway along my big pile of books to read, so I guess I'll see how I like that first.
GothicDan 11-04-07, 08:16 AM	I'm good at Math... REALLY good. Maybe not Quantum Physics good, but definately better then the average Joe. Quantum mechanics, man! I suck at math. By me sucking at math, I mean, I'm probably better than you. ;) But still worse than the average physicist. On topic: So, is the merge just going to be CoC + FR?! I certainly hope not.
MarkusTay63 11-04-07, 09:56 AM	It sounds more like a recipe for disater - Take 1 part FR, add a cup of Cthulhu, a dash of Greyhawk, two tablespoons of Eberron, stir in WoD.... It almost appears that they are going back to the late-2e mindset of shoe-horning everything in, weather it fits or not.
Stigger 11-04-07, 10:50 AM	It's a completely different idea until you get to Moscow in the winter...
Dark Wizard 11-04-07, 03:37 PM	It sounds more like a recipe for disater - Take 1 part FR, add a cup of Cthulhu, a dash of Greyhawk, two tablespoons of Eberron, stir in WoD.... It almost appears that they are going back to the late-2e mindset of shoe-horning everything in, weather it fits or not. I thought that was the early-2e mindset.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-04-07, 07:02 PM	I never want Cthulu... or however you spell that. It only works when you don't see the monster... show the monster and it's just stupid. Maybe I'll come up with some cute cuttlefish-like monster that eats aboleth and illithids, but who's otherwise very friendly and social, just to make myself feel better... I like cuttlefish, so I would enjoy such a creature.:)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-04-07, 07:04 PM	The only problem is if he's like one of the top three FR guys for 4E, that means we might be getting too much of this stuff. Exactly, I think the Far Realms stuff is OK as long as there isn't too much of it. My main problem with Bruce's writing is the "real worldisms" that take me right out of the story, such as "The Body Shop" (as the name of a store!) and expressions like "everything's coming up roses" (from a Broadway musical).
Stigger 11-04-07, 07:20 PM	I'm a cuttlefish fan myself... Though as an aside, what I'm hearing lately about novels is making me more and more glad I don't bother with them too often.
18DELTA 11-04-07, 11:48 PM	I like the Mind Flayers myself. I never realized that the Far Realms was a part of the setting. Is this the first time that the Far Realms has been mentioned in conjunction with the Realms? Is this WotC retconing something from Core into the Realms?:rolleyes: I was expecting something different than the Cerulean Sign to explain the Abeir-Toril mystery!:eek: Cause whats really going to happen when the Spellplague hits!!!:confused:
BadCatMan 11-05-07, 12:14 AM	The Far Realms have appeared in the Realms in various forms for years. Of course, this kind of thing is much better when it's rarer and little-known. Far Realmsian stuff in FR: * Aberrations by default, particularly in the Underdark. And particularly Mind Flayers, Aboleths and the like. * The Marco Volo adventure trilogy, featured an artifact that would summon a Far Realmsian god called the Dragonking. Volo's Guide To All Things Magical summarizes the artifact and adds that if the Dragonking were ever to be released, Garagos would appear to (hopefully) slay him. I like that the berserker god is the last hope for Toril. * Some kind of cult in Waterdeep I don't know anything about. * The Twilight Tomb adventure, which I'm reading currently, seems to be heading that way, with aberrations and bizarre stuff going on. This no doubt links into Stardeep - it's "based on an adventure concept by Bruce Cordell". * The vestige Zceryll the Star-Spawn, seen here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ps/20070306a With the Well Of Dragons and the pseudonatural dragon elaborated on in Dragons Of Faerun. * The Imaskari seemed to have had some links with the Far Realms as well, going by Darkvision. IMG, I hinted at a Far Realms connection with the new Spawn Of Tiamat monsters as mutant dragons emanating from the Well Of Dragons. Mainly because a PC rolled a high Knowledge (Planes) instead of Arcana.
18DELTA 11-05-07, 12:23 AM	SORRY FOLKS I WAS WRONG!!! Bruce has spoken!!! http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9676 Look at the bottom. I am an idiot.;) :hides:
Stigger 11-05-07, 04:33 AM	Well that is well and truly a relief...
MarkusTay63 11-05-07, 09:45 AM	Well, then I'm back to thinking it is Faerie, or some connection to the Fey at least. Considering the Few connections in his novels (the one in Darkvision, and the connection the Star Elves appear to have from the GHotR). For some reason, the Fey deemed it neccesary to 'seed' the world with their creations - caretakers, perhaps? They seem to have some sort of clandestine purpose involving locking away 'horrors' (read: aberrations), and have left both the Star Elves and the Imaskari the knowledge to do so. So just because Abeir isn't the Far Realm, it doesn't mean that the Far Realm, or at least aberrations, are not involved with it's 'return'. If a world becomes to 'unbalanced' by "un-natural forces", who better to show up and put things right then "nature's Caretakers"? I think on some cosmic level there must be "gaurdians of the natural order" - the Fey. ;) Just my newest spin on things. :D And Drizzt did mention the 'rise of the Aboleths' or some such nonsense, which means that they WILL show up in FORCE as a result of the Spellplague. Probably magic going on the fritz is going to unleash all sorts of badness the Fey (Le'Shay) had locked away, not just the Aboleths. Perhaps the Fey will even return the world to its natural course, once again bringing my 'Un-Sundering' theory into play. I don't care HOW they explain it, as long as they don't jump the setting a century I'll be Okay. :cool:
GothicDan 11-05-07, 10:36 AM	"gaurdians of the natural order" - the Fey. No, that's the Rilmani. :)
MarkusTay63 11-05-07, 01:08 PM	The Fey killed them and took their stuff? :confused: No, that's the Rilmani. :)Seriously, I don't know what that is. It sounds familiar, but I have no sources with me. EDIT: Just Wiki'd it - they don't sound like what I was picturing... maybe I'm thinking neutral-good or something like that. Its hard to think of Sylvan beings so unemotional about stuff. Maybe the race I'm picturing will be these 'new & improved' Eladrin. :rolleyes:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-05-07, 01:17 PM	Seriously, I don't know what that is. It sounds familiar, but I have no sources with me. Powerful neutral outsiders, if I recall correctly.:)
GothicDan 11-05-07, 01:48 PM	The idea of Fey in any way supporting the "natural balance" makes me giggle like a school girl.
Stigger 11-05-07, 05:03 PM	Were detailed in Planescape... the Monstrous Compendium Appendix II has a considerable amount of info on them.
elondir 11-05-07, 05:32 PM	Well, I've got to say I'm fed up with the Realms timeline after 1357. I think if I ever do a D&D game again (I am currently convinced the whole thing has totally jumped the shark since 4e was released, on top of being bored with the 3.5 combats taking three hours per battle), let alone in the Realms, it will be in 1300 and ignore the Grand History completely. In fact, unless 4e's SRD has some miracle rules in it, I'll probably revert to the old hacked up AD&D 2e ruleset I used to use and only reference the old 1987 gray box. It's still quite usable since there is practically no crunch in it at all.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-05-07, 08:08 PM	Hmm, does anyone like the "FR merges with Eberron" theory? I do!:ayyyy!:
Dark Wizard 11-05-07, 09:13 PM	Who gets to be on top? :P
18DELTA 11-06-07, 12:16 AM	Hmm, does anyone like the "FR merges with Eberron" theory? I do!:ayyyy!: :confused: :uh-huh: :nonono: :twitch: I would rather have 2 foot long stiching needles shoved through my eyeballs than to have to deal with that!!!;) :P:eek:
Stigger 11-06-07, 01:49 AM	My but that's specific... I shall be magnanimous and volunteer to stick the needles into you though, I'm kind that way... :P
18DELTA 11-06-07, 10:17 AM	No thanks I like self inflicted pain!!!:eek:
MarkusTay63 11-06-07, 11:04 AM	The idea of Fey in any way supporting the "natural balance" makes me giggle like a school girl.Maybe I misworded that. Let me try to explain what I'm thinking a little better - I'm not thinking 'Pure Balance' (ie, natural order or 'true neutral'), but rather 'protectors of nature' in regards to balance (but not THE Balance). The Rilmani sound more like something that would be about restoring the 'cosmic balance', while I'm thinking of a group along the lines of Dark Sun's Pyreen - A group that tries to restore the balance in nature (and return Athas to a state of being a fertile world once again). Were detailed in Planescape... the Monstrous Compendium Appendix II has a considerable amount of info on them.The Monstrous Appendix II is the Dark Sun one, and I checked it. I also checked the the one on the Outer Planes and NO Rilmani. I even checked the one on Spelljammer and found the Reigar, who seem like a combination of the ultimate Gold Elf and the Sensates(?) from Planescape (they're all about experiencing new things, and are so self-absorbed they make Gold Elves look 'charitable'). Still can't find any Rilmani - are you sure it was in Appendix II? :confused: Don't forget that there were the original 'pages' version, and then later bound books were released. The bound book Appendix II is the Dark Sun one. :(
SteelGeneral 11-06-07, 12:44 PM	Is there any info about what 'Empyrean' actually stands for? :confused: From Wikipedia... Empyrean, from the Medieval Latin empyreus, an adaptation of the Ancient Greek, "in or on the fire (pyr)", properly Empyrean Heaven, is the place in the highest heaven, which in ancient cosmologies was supposed to be occupied by the element of fire (or aether in Aristotle's natural philosophy). Use in literature: The Empyrean was thus used as a name for the firmament, and in Christian literature, notably the Divine Comedy, for the dwelling-place of God and the blessed, and as the source of light. The word is used both as a substantive and as an adjective. Having the same Greek origin are the scientific words empyreuma and empyreumatic, applied to the characteristic smell of burning or charring vegetable or animal matter. Not sure how that fits with everything (if at all), but I thought I'd throw it out there... Now, although I believe this "merging" is probably more metaphoric (is that a word?) than an actual physical thing. Has anyone considered that they could merge FR with the world of *Dramatic Music* Magic:The Gathering? Not a pleasant thought, but certainly no more crackpot than any others. Just my 2cp worth...
GothicDan 11-06-07, 01:46 PM	Empyreus being "Latin?" A bit shoddy. Latin didn't have a "y" originally. It would be best to just call it Greek and leave it at that.
SteelGeneral 11-06-07, 03:30 PM	That's what was there...never said it was 100% correct.
Stigger 11-06-07, 04:50 PM	The Monstrous Appendix II is the Dark Sun one, and I checked it. I also checked the the one on the Outer Planes and NO Rilmani. I even checked the one on Spelljammer and found the Reigar, who seem like a combination of the ultimate Gold Elf and the Sensates(?) from Planescape (they're all about experiencing new things, and are so self-absorbed they make Gold Elves look 'charitable'). Still can't find any Rilmani - are you sure it was in Appendix II? :confused: Don't forget that there were the original 'psges' version, and then later bound books were released. The bound book Appendix II is the Dark Sun one. :( Looking back, I see I didn't mention it was a Planescape specific book... was TSR 2613 if that helps any.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-06-07, 08:22 PM	Thank you, SteelGeneral, for shedding some light on that word (empyrean).
MarkusTay63 11-06-07, 08:31 PM	Yes, thanks. ;) Looking back, I see I didn't mention it was a Planescape specific book... was TSR 2613 if that helps any.Just downloaded it from Paizo... nice book, I'll have to get the other two as well. I think I have all the boxed sets for Planescape, but didn't really buy the individual books (I had no intention of running it, I just wanted a better understanding of the Great Wheel). The fact that several of the boxes are still shrink-wrapped give you some clue as to how 'deeply' I delved into the subject matter. Thanks for the info - lots on the Eladrin in there as well, which is VERY helpful with 4e coming our way.
Stigger 11-07-07, 04:43 PM	Amusingly, I have most of the individual books, but not many boxes, since I couldn't afford the boxed sets at the time... well, I could have, but girls and music consumed too much of my cashflow at the time. :D
MarkusTay63 11-08-07, 01:55 AM	My local comic shop was going out of business, so I got all of 'em for 75% off! :D I was getting those $30 boxes for $7.50. :P
Selvarin 11-08-07, 02:31 AM	Hmmm...*looking at random posts, responding at random*... The cult in Waterdeep would probably be the Cult of Ghaundaur. For some reason I keep thinking Luskan's going to get taken down by the aboleth, or the wizards of the Hosstower Arcane will wig out and blow the place up themselves. And I'm betting it'll be a century jump because that'll also give the shades time to reclaim parts of the desert and turn it into arable land. Also, when the events of the Anauroch adventure are completed, the phaerimm will likely be free because the sharn wall will be taken down. Perhaps they'll try something other than to create more desert? Or maybe they'll stick around to put some pressure on the shades from the west, with the Zhents in the east. Hmm, Empyrean...Sounds like the Heavens will be set on fire, certainly the Great Wheel's going to crack and the book series would be a nice way of explaining everything being washed into the Astral Sea...although it won't be finished until 2009. Ugh. Too long. Toril merging with the world of Magic: The Gathering? *puts two shells in the proverbial shotgun and aims* That would be lame. But it isn't any crazier than other theories, I'll grant that. How's this for a consequence of the Spellplague? Halruaa being severely weakened and Dambrath conquering them? A century later, they'll need *ahem* adventurers to help them out. Or perhaps the nalfeshnee nearby builds a kingdom nearby. Another monster kingdom in the area. But none of that relates to how we actually get there from here so...
MarkusTay63 11-08-07, 10:16 AM	I never read the Archwizards trilogy, but I believe the Sharn Wall already came down in that, else how would they have attacked Evereska? I may have to read that series soon (:yuck:) just for it's 'historical' content. We KNOW the Aboleths are going to screw something up majorly, else Drizzt would not have mentioned them a century later. The fact that he knows or cares so much about them also most likely means that their 'break-out' will occur in The North. I think they will be putting a hurtin' on Waterdeep, myself - with all it's connections to the Underdark it would be a no-brainer. Luskan, on the other hand, gets wiped out every century or so. Since the Hostower was built by a Netherese Archmage, my money's on that the Shades are gonna 'come a' callin'. ;)
Selvarin 11-08-07, 01:06 PM	Ummmm not quite. A crack was made in the wall then by Gaylaron or whatever his name was that allowed some through...oh I hated that series, that was when Evereska's mythal became a mix of Weave and Shadow Weave, which struck me to be about as logical as matter and anti-matter holding hands. (It's a Troy Denning special so I didn't expect anything logical or good to come from it--and I wasn't disappointed.) Anyhow, the part about a remnant of the sharn wall comes straight from an excerpt on WotC's site for the Anuaroch adventure. Luskan being destroyed by the Shades...that could well be the other possibility. They tend to play nice and make a decent offer only once, then it's lights-out with Shar and her pals. As for Waterdeep, with the Promendade abandoned/destroyed and an avatar of Ghaunadar free to roam below (which is what I expect)...and with the Mad Mage dead...just about anything can march through Undermountain.
Stigger 11-08-07, 03:03 PM	Don't forget the aboleth mentioned to be lurking in the sewers as of W:CoS...
18DELTA 11-08-07, 03:12 PM	:dancin: :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :dancin:
Stigger 11-08-07, 03:26 PM	If you turn into an aboleth fanatic the way Creyzi has for orcs, I'm sening an squadron of elephants to be dropped on your house from 10,000 feet...
MarkusTay63 11-08-07, 04:27 PM	Monsters need love too. :P Although I try to stick to mamals for the most part. ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-08-07, 04:28 PM	Monsters are people too!:P
Selvarin 11-08-07, 04:33 PM	Better to just fly a few elephaunts with gastrointestinal problems overhead. A couple of 'em could bury a 2-story building in 10 minutes, I bet. :P As for the aboleth under Waterdeep, yes indeed and so were the mind flayers and the sharn. (Back in the day my adventuring party used to play Whack a Mole with them teleporting buggers, so glad the ranger had a vorpal sword...) Of course, some of the other comments beg the question: If you call an orc 'a man' (meant with respect) will he take it the right way? Probably not.
Stigger 11-08-07, 05:11 PM	Monsters get my love... usually in the form of a warm, fuzzy, heart-shaped fireball...
18DELTA 11-08-07, 08:05 PM	If you turn into an aboleth fanatic the way Creyzi has for orcs, I'm sening an squadron of elephants to be dropped on your house from 10,000 feet... Scans the sky looking for a floating aboleth city, so I can prostrate my self before their might!!!;) Rise mighty Xxiphu, rise!:P :dancin: :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :dancin: :P
Stigger 11-08-07, 08:21 PM	...
18DELTA 11-08-07, 08:27 PM	... :rofl: :rofl: :bounce: :bounce: :rofl: :rofl:
MarkusTay63 11-09-07, 01:17 AM	I'm sending Emeril to Toril - BAM! Sushi, anyone? ;) He can take care of the Illithids while he is there as well - I heard he has a terrific recipe for Calimari. :P
GothicDan 11-09-07, 11:32 AM	I HATE Emeril.
Stigger 11-09-07, 03:40 PM	Dan's a hater... :(
GothicDan 11-09-07, 03:54 PM	I'm also a lover! ...
18DELTA 11-09-07, 03:59 PM	Uh,... who is Emeril? Is that like wheres Waldo?:D
Selvarin 11-09-07, 04:05 PM	But it's true. Emeril's a PUNK. When asked if he cooks the recipes he demonstrates on his show for himself as well, he said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I don't eat that garbage!"...Makes me think of him as the Barry Bonds of Cookery.
MarkusTay63 11-09-07, 04:57 PM	I saw Wolfgang Puck (another famous chef) on some show, and they were interviewing him in his home. They asked him the same thing basically, and he took a frozen pizza out of the Freezer and said "This is what I make for my family at home". Makes you think, huh? :cool:
Selvarin 11-09-07, 05:18 PM	See? Wolfgang's more real. If my job was a cook/master chef/etc. the last thing on my mind when coming home would be "What am I going to make for dinner?"...It's kind of like with IT people. A lot of fellow techs love working with PC parts, etc., but when I ask 90% have a pre-fabbed PC at home because they don't care to spend their off-hours tinkering. Btw, did they ask Wolfgang which version of D&D he prefers? Has he ever tried Neverwijnter Nights I or II? :P (Just adding some game-relevant stuff so no one complains)
MarkusTay63 11-09-07, 07:13 PM	No new theories? No rehashing of old ones? Does anyone besides me think that the core cosmology WILL be FR's as well?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-09-07, 09:22 PM	No new theories? No rehashing of old ones? Does anyone besides me think that the core cosmology WILL be FR's as well? I was thinking it a possibility. No matter what, MY Realms will never be Core.:)
DreamStalker 11-10-07, 12:23 AM	I think one of the silliest to have done to DnD in general is to make overreaching rules that are supposed to apply to all campaign settings no matter what. In 3rd they had this notion that all campaign settings had to have their own comsologies, no bleeding. Obviously some campaign worlds needed something specific, such as Eberron. Others while in the past of the Great Wheel where fairly suited to being separate such as Dragonlance or Dark Sun. My opinions of course. Others were very steeped in the Great Wheel and had gained much from it, such as FR and Greyhawk. I didn't dislike the Great Tree, I just thought it was such a loss to have removed FR from the Great Wheel. Now the new rule is that everything has the same cosmology. Or at least if I understand it correctly. However now it seems that it is not any of the old cosmologies, but something new. Something narrower in focus and without the infinity of possibilities. Eh. I am a little less than impressed. Hopefully I am wrong. I reserve final judgment for the actual release as right now my opinions are based on conjecture and tid bits. One of the things I have enjoyed about DnD is that not only can you make the game your own, but that it had provided a variety of worlds to play in with the same basic set of rules. You chose your style. If you wanted gritty you picked up Dark Sun. Gothic horror you picked up Ravenloft. Epic and detailed FR. From what I have picked up all of the campaign settings are going to be more or less very similar in tone and feel. The Points of Light idea for the core game is perfectly fine and makes sense for trying to draw in new, especially younger, audiences. It is more accessible. Not that myself or my other friends ever had trouble with FR. I have brought plenty of players into. Those who were intrigued were fascinated it had so much you could find. Others who didn't care about that still played... they just didn't pick up books and books of material. They stuck with the few books they liked and enjoyed the game. I suppose it helped instead of handing them the book and saying,"Ok where do you want to be from?" I would ask,"What sort of place do you want to be from?" then open the book to the correct spot and showed them the small description provided. Some that was enough. Others wanted more. A few glanced at it and shrugged. Either way the FR game was enjoyed or not despite those reactions. It also feels like that the current developers are trying to make DnD more specific. More like other RPGs that have a specific setting to the rules instead of a set of rules that works for a couple of settings. That is alright too I suppose, that would be fine. Might not interest me, but we'll see. I have sort of preffered the almost generic nature of DnD melding it to whatever I wanted to play. Back in the game more days a week than not period of my life during and immediately after high school this probably would have interested me more. Now I like to mess with as few rules systems as possible to get the most bang out of my buck so to speak. I was a huge proponent of 3rd and 3.5 among my circle of friends. It actually took quite a bit to get everyone on board 3rd in the first place just because things became more generic than in 2nd (which I was for). 4E has some things that sound great and others that I am wary about. I may or may not pick it up, same with FR in 4E. Though I am much more wary about 4E FR than 4E in general. WotC may have lost me as a customer. Might have helped if we heard about intentions in changes before they were set in print. Oh well though:) I can play 3rd or even 2nd edition still. Or other games. We'll see next year.
MarkusTay63 11-10-07, 12:58 AM	If the Great Wheel/Planescape exists at all in 4e, it will be a seperate world much like any other setting. The Outlands will just be it's own Realm, with lots of portals connecting it to the other planes (which are no longer physically connected to it in any way). The difference will be superficial; basically you can still travel around the ring and enter the various 'Gate Towns', which will now be more 'gates' in a literal sense. Its just kind of sad though - even though it can still be fit in with few changes, it has gone from being THE cosmology to just another world... in the "less is more" universe of 4e. Does anyone remember the story of The Emperor's New Clothes? Remember how all the folks in charge kept telling everyone how 'cool' the king was? They kept saying it so much some people actually started to believe it. But in the end one clever little boy realized everyone else were idiots and the Emperor was naked... There was NOTHING there... just air and bulls__t. Sound familiar? ;)
BadCatMan 11-10-07, 06:21 AM	So Elminster's going to be walking around naked? No change there then. :rolleyes:
Suin Bahhar 11-10-07, 09:04 AM	The planar gerrymandering makes me sad. The end result is nearly impossible to merge with existing lore without major planar cataclysms. But I can see the benefits of the planes having a clearer structure. The realms has a pretty mild transistion with respect to her current great tree and the coming spellplague. The gods holding planar realms together makes some sense. The great wheel has gotten a new interpretation, it feels a bit like its flushed out by the astral sea and less infinite somehow. I sure hope they do a realms planar book and add to the detailing of the godly domains. I think its the merging of three worlds. Ravenloft, Toril and Feärie. Shadowfell forms as the bonds between the realms and the mists increase and Shar or Mask gains power; the Feywild invades the more remote areas of fearun, seeping through to the material with the help of the Seldarine and Nature gods.
MarkusTay63 11-16-07, 02:53 AM	I have a NEW theory! What if part of whats going to happen has to do with Eshadow - You don't think Shar would work with someone with Shadow in their name? If they release Dender the Night Serpent, and Ubtao can't stop him, he may just "eat the sun" all over again. Lathander becomes snake food, and Shar plunges the world into darkness. Sounds like a goal worthy of Shar, and it is canon that Dender does his thing "at the end of the world", which the final entry in the GHotR seems to make it out to be. Then the lights come back on, and guess what? It's a 'brave, new world' :cool:
Selvarin 11-16-07, 03:10 AM	And so they build Lathander up to retake Aumant-whatzit's place officially as a sun god only to douse him again? That makes as much sense as building up Eilistraee only to be slain by Lolth... ... Hey! Sounds like a WotC business plan to me. :P
Stigger 11-16-07, 03:17 AM	About the only good thing about that theory of yours Markus is the mention of the Night Serpent... so I'll be looking for it when I check out 4e's FRCS.
Burningspear 11-16-07, 09:40 AM	I have a NEW theory! What if part of whats going to happen has to do with Eshadow - You don't think Shar would work with someone with Shadow in their name? If they release Dender the Night Serpent, and Ubtao can't stop him, he may just "eat the sun" all over again. Lathander becomes snake food, and Shar plunges the world into darkness. Sounds like a goal worthy of Shar, and it is canon that Dender does his thing "at the end of the world", which the final entry in the GHotR seems to make it out to be. Then the lights come back on, and guess what? It's a 'brave, new world' :cool: Its a big shame though that "Eshowdo" (I am sure the spelling was not a literal shadow with some add ons , but i cannot remember the correct spelling anyway, and still don't have those books shipped overseas :(.) He, that shadowy person has absolutely nothing to do in his original content with Shar, sigh!!!!!!, and i loath him being annexed so easily into cannon, and forgotten in regards to his original storyline! :plotting: Bleh...
MarkusTay63 11-17-07, 12:30 AM	Not directly to do with the 'merger', but since this seems to be one of the few '4e theory' threads still going, I'll post it here - It has to do with Savras from F&P - "The All-Seeing seems unsuprised by Shar's actions of late and bitterly opposes her use of the Shadow Weave to disrupt the efficacy of his divinations." Hmmm... it seems that Savras was hot on her trail, and maybe within reach of discovering her plans, and she was using her portfolio to block his. Interesting...... :thinks:
Burningspear 11-17-07, 12:34 AM	Not directly to do with the 'merger', but since this seems to be one of the few '4e theory' threads still going, I'll post it here - It has to do with Savras from F&P - "The All-Seeing seems unsuprised by Shar's actions of late and bitterly opposes her use of the Shadow Weave to disrupt the efficacy of his divinations." Hmmm... it seems that Savras was hot on her trail, and maybe within reach of discovering her plans, and she was using her portfolio to block his. Interesting...... :thinks: See, Savras is not a useless little god, :cheer: Go Savras...kick shadow butt, thatcrappylittlegoth*****uptonogoodshar :smirk:
Stigger 11-17-07, 12:45 AM	I don't think I've ever met a goth nihlist... :P
Selvarin 11-17-07, 12:49 AM	Except...I also read that Savras was very troubled by his inability to see into the future. I don't see anything particularly illuminating about it. It's like not being surprised that Cyric has his minions killing or Mask just stole a mystic book from Oghma's library. Shar keeps secrets as second nature and always has an ace (or three) up her sleeve, she's the Uber-Deity of Evil as ordained by the head honchos themselves... :smirk:
18DELTA 11-17-07, 11:39 AM	Cause Shar is a sexy goth nihlist. :D You know Long raven black hair, a ton of eye make up, tatoos & piercings, hell bent for leather, with KNEE HIGH BLACK LEATHER BOOTS. Wow I would become her new high preist if WotC made her that way.:D Forget the Aboleths, bring on my necro goth princess SHAR!!!:cool: :love: :cloud9:
Stigger 11-17-07, 12:09 PM	Sounds more like a fetishist than a goth to me... Old-School Goth here, and as LK pointed out Old-School > Everything Else. :P
Burningspear 11-17-07, 12:32 PM	Sounds more like a fetishist than a goth to me... Old-School Goth here, and as LK pointed out Old-School > Everything Else. seems these days anything that needs to sound cool or interesting, gets called 'Old School' or 'Retro' or whatnot, sigh, even music from when i was young gets that namer attached just so kids these days can grasp what happened 15 - 20 years ago, because their simple tiny brain cannot compute :smirk: and btw, the QUOTE is not working, nice new provider for these boards, yea riiight :P
MarkusTay63 11-17-07, 02:59 PM	Thats what I've been saying... like the now-infamous "countdown to Oblivion" back during Gencon. Nothing like Server Crashes to inspire you to spend your money on something they've been giving you for Free. Gleemax doesn't fill me with any "Glee" what-so-ever. :( Except...I also read that Savras was very troubled by his inability to see into the future.It wasn't meant to be inspiring, but rather just interesting - in lieu of events that we now know WILL take place. Reading into that (which is something I'm sure everyone realizes I love to do), in most stories, novels, films, etc (not FR), when an 'oracle' has trouble discerning events past a certain point, or surrounding a certain individual, it usually means that there are two seperate paths that history could take. I forget what they call them in the SoT novels, but basically these 'junctures' is where prophesy splits and follows a different path. The rest of the property down that path becomes meaningless once another path is chosen. Thats the main problem with prophesy - you can never really be certain if your living within an event until AFTER the event takes place, making it practically worthless. Now, apply these rules established by other genre to our Realms, it appears that there may have been on of these critical junctures that Savras couldn't see past thanks to Shar's interference. This, of course, backs up my theory that Shar had forseen this 'alternate future' as one acceptable to her, and has been manipulating events in that direction since the ToT- or even as far back as the ascension of the dark Three! Savras no longer appears to be an innocent bystander caught up in the slaughter, but rather an agent of Mystra that was either there to warn her or manipulate events in such a way as to have a better outcome even further down the road. In this light, Savras becomes a player in the Drama, rather hten just canon-fodder. I would like to think so, ecause it makes mefeel a little better about his seemingly pointless death. Cause Shar is a sexy goth nihlist. :D You know Long raven black hair, a ton of eye make up, tatoos & piercings, hell bent for leather, with KNEE HIGH BLACK LEATHER BOOTS. Wow I would become her new high preist if WotC made her that way.:D Forget the Aboleths, bring on my necro goth princess SHAR!!!:cool: :love: :cloud9:IMG, she has an all-female order of nuns in her service - http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/hotNunSmall.jpg :D
18DELTA 11-17-07, 03:42 PM	Thats what I've been saying... like the now-infamous "countdown to Oblivion" back during Gencon. Nothing like Server Crashes to inspire you to spend your money on something they've been giving you for Free. Gleemax doesn't fill me with any "Glee" what-so-ever. :( It wasn't meant to be inspiring, but rather just interesting - in lieu of events that we now know WILL take place. Reading into that (which is something I'm sure everyone realizes I love to do), in most stories, novels, films, etc (not FR), when an 'oracle' has trouble discerning events past a certain point, or surrounding a certain individual, it usually means that there are two seperate paths that history could take. I forget what they call them in the SoT novels, but basically these 'junctures' is where prophesy splits and follows a different path. The rest of the property down that path becomes meaningless once another path is chosen. Thats the main problem with prophesy - you can never really be certain if your living within an event until AFTER the event takes place, making it practically worthless. Now, apply these rules established by other genre to our Realms, it appears that there may have been on of these critical junctures that Savras couldn't see past thanks to Shar's interference. This, of course, backs up my theory that Shar had forseen this 'alternate future' as one acceptable to her, and has been manipulating events in that direction since the ToT- or even as far back as the ascension of the dark Three! Savras no longer appears to be an innocent bystander caught up in the slaughter, but rather an agent of Mystra that was either there to warn her or manipulate events in such a way as to have a better outcome even further down the road. In this light, Savras becomes a player in the Drama, rather hten just canon-fodder. I would like to think so, ecause it makes mefeel a little better about his seemingly pointless death. IMG, she has an all-female order of nuns in her service - http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/hotNunSmall.jpg :D MT63:bounce: :bounce: :love: :love: :cloud9: :cloud9: YOU JUST MADE MY DAY PARDNER!!!:D CAPS ON PURPOSE!:P I AM...SO SICK!;)
MarkusTay63 11-17-07, 04:07 PM	There used to be a comic called Leather Nun, but I can't post a piccy of a cover because I willed be banned. ;) Google it, and ignore any entries about the Swedish Rock Group of the same name. GREAT comic, BTW. :P That's how I picture MY Shar religion. :dancin:
Selvarin 11-17-07, 06:12 PM	Just call it "Glum-max". :P Yep, it is indeed cartoonish. Y'know, though, with that image in mind I could see Shar swallowing up Loviatar and taking over as a goddess of 'dark pleasures' as well. Might tick Bane off just a bit as he likes having lackeys and might see that as a 'shot over the bow' by Shar.
Stigger 11-17-07, 06:30 PM	Nice picture Markus... reminds me of a girl I used to date actually...
MarkusTay63 11-17-07, 11:20 PM	Do you still have her number? :drool: ;) That pic is actually pretty tame - the followers of Loviatar IMG are MUCH worse - I base them on the Mord'Sith from the Sword of Truth novels - magic-stealing powers and all. :devil: I post a picture of one, but picture a Drow Matron Priestess, who is considered a Sadist by DROW standards. :mymy: I tell you, I really like the Crinti as well - that pic of one in the SS tome is so cool - it looks like an Anime version of a hot Drow girl. A Drow with pigtails! Whoever thought of THAT - kudos, big time. :D Found it - http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ssouth_gallery/84347.jpg I think I'm in love. :love:
18DELTA 11-17-07, 11:54 PM	Yes I think I just had an Evilgasm!:D Sword of Truth, Wizards First Rule Rocked(only book that I have read by Mr. Goodkind)! Maybe thats what WotC is doing in 4E, the Wizards First Rule!:P Those that have read it Know what I mean. The Mord-Sith are awesome in a Shar+Loviatar kinky sorta way!;)
johnkretzer 11-18-07, 01:44 AM	So the newest theory on the merger is that the FR will merge with the world of BDSM?
18DELTA 11-18-07, 09:57 AM	So the newest theory on the merger is that the FR will merge with the world of BDSM? :rofl: :ayyyy!: :D One can only hope and pray so!;)
Stigger 11-18-07, 10:51 AM	Tame? That didn't even register on my scopes... I just said it looked like a girl I used to date. Was more a punk thing for her than a fetish thing, ala Fuzzbox. Don't ask about the fetish girls I used to date, I could get into trouble. :blink: :D
Sullivan 11-18-07, 02:51 PM	Toril and Cybertron. The Chosen of the good gods become headmasters for Autobots and the Chosen of evil gods become headmasters for the 'Cons. 'Cause, mixing Transformers with Star War was such a cool idea...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-18-07, 07:43 PM	I just love how that Crinti's skin is purple.:rolleyes:
MarkusTay63 11-18-07, 10:35 PM	That's just artistic license - it's either grey. brown, or purple - true black just doesn't work well on an artistic canvas. It's nearly impossible to highlight facial features. Thats why the Batman was always drawn in shades of grey and navy blue, when his costume was black. He'd have no muscle-tone, otherwise. Anyway, bringing in a little 'Darkeness' Sword of Truth style would be cool, and I'd probably love it..... but it wouldn't be FR. ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-19-07, 01:28 PM	I understand why pure black would be hard to use, but pretty soon purple is going to be a legitimate color for drow or half-drow (art often ends up shaping lore).
Stigger 11-19-07, 01:53 PM	Unfortunately, this is true Rinonalyrna...
MarkusTay63 11-22-07, 11:10 AM	Don't you just love when an entry doesn't match the illustration (no, I'm not talking about GHotR). I was reading a monster entry yesterday and the creatrure was described as having blonde hair, but the artist did it with black. I wonder sometimes if they actually read the entries before doing their thing. :rolleyes:
Stigger 11-22-07, 11:47 AM	I notice that a lot actually...
18DELTA 11-22-07, 12:45 PM	WotC really needs to cage that Umber Hulk that got loose in their offices about 2 years ago. You know around the time that they decided to butcher our beloved Realms!:rolleyes:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-22-07, 03:40 PM	I notice that a lot actually... Me too!
Selvarin 11-22-07, 05:25 PM	I understand why pure black would be hard to use, but pretty soon purple is going to be a legitimate color for drow or half-drow (art often ends up shaping lore). The front/back cover depictions of the drow from D3 Vault of the Drow included a priestess with a few 'sheens' of violet/magenta on her and a drow vampire that was more blue than black. Could just chalk it up to some backlighting out-of-view of the scene shown. I wouldn't worry about the shading in newer artwork, for me it's more about the actual linework. Some artists get it right, others shouldn't be allowed near a D&D/FR gamebook.
MarkusTay63 11-23-07, 01:42 AM	'Angler-fish' Star Elves, anyone? :yuck:
johnkretzer 11-23-07, 01:28 PM	I understand why pure black would be hard to use, but pretty soon purple is going to be a legitimate color for drow or half-drow (art often ends up shaping lore). Anyone ever watch the Duck Dodgers cartoon? The Mars queen is how drow should look. Well perhaps a little less cartoony. And that was pure black.
MarkusTay63 11-23-07, 02:53 PM	You mean Queen Tyr'ahnee? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/20/Martian_queen2.jpg
johnkretzer 11-23-07, 03:03 PM	You mean Queen Tyr'ahnee? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/20/Martian_queen2.jpg Yes with some slight modification you have what I picture a drow to look like with their pure black skin...
18DELTA 11-23-07, 11:23 PM	Yes with some slight modification you have what I picture a drow to look like with their pure black skin... :OMG! Is that the new Chosen of Lolth?:P
MarkusTay63 11-24-07, 02:39 PM	Yes, notice the luscious hips one can see-through the sheer skirt - so thats what kids cartoons look like these days? Still... a nose would have been nice.... :rolleyes: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Modified_Martian_Queen_by_DrewGardn.jpg Better Pic of her, original artist: *DrewGardener
johnkretzer 11-24-07, 03:40 PM	Yes, notice the luscious hips one can see-through the sheer skirt - so thats what kids cartoons look like these days? Still... a nose would have been nice.... :rolleyes: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Modified_Martian_Queen_by_DrewGardn.jpg Better Pic of her, original artist: *DrewGardener She does have a nose...check out the pink stipe accropss her face...it is just hard to see.
Selvarin 11-24-07, 03:44 PM	Yep, it's minimized to denote her dainty features.
Faraer 11-24-07, 03:51 PM	I'm trying to think of cases of artists successfully painting black, not grey or brown or blue or purple. Certainly pictures of the Giger/Scott alien.
18DELTA 05-06-08, 09:00 AM	-How about this old thread. Should it come back to life?:P So do we know for sure what the whole merging of to worlds was really about?:confused: 18D;)
Lord Karsus 05-06-08, 12:36 PM	-How about this old thread. Should it come back to life?:P -No, based on nothing else but that picture. I know or remember nothing else about this thread, however. I will now review, though. So do we know for sure what the whole merging of to worlds was really about?:confused: -Well, part of 'Abeir', whatever that is, replaced certain parts of Unther, Mulhorand, and all of Maztica. Other than that, though...
18DELTA 05-23-08, 07:35 AM	-They tricked us!!! The merging of the two worlds was the merging of the FR Forums.!!!:rolleyes: :rofl: 18D:rofl:
Lord Karsus 05-23-08, 10:51 AM	-They tricked us!!! The merging of the two worlds was the merging of the FR Forums.!!!:rolleyes: :rofl: 18D:rofl: -Perhaps.