| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Grishmal04-23-07, 12:35 AM | What are the most powerful nation in Faerun? Lets say the top five. |
| Stigger04-23-07, 02:13 AM | Whomever the DM says are the most powerful nations in Faerun... ;) Seriously though, depends on the criteria. Economic, military, population, magic, all of the above, none of the above, what? All depends on how you define power. |
| Grishmal04-23-07, 02:32 AM | I would say all of the above with an enfasis on military both offensive and defensive. |
| Duagloth04-23-07, 06:54 AM | Maybe Thay. They need to be on top, to stay alive. To many Enemies *g* |
| Stigger04-23-07, 07:22 AM | Hard to say one way or another. Thay certainly has the numbers, but a lot of that numerical superiority is going to be consumed watching over their own internal issues, ie, slave revolts and popular uprisings if they extend their wizards too much. Calimshan has essentially the same problem. I'd say right now most of the Realms was in a semi-stalemate in terms of balance of power. Most of the major players have their own internal problems to deal with, perhaps not in the immediate, but certainly in the long term if they begin aggressive wars of conquest. Zhents are probably in the best position in that respect, but the farther they go, the worse things get to them, and the more manpower they need just to hold on to whatever it is they manage to take. The Iron Law of Logistics rearing its ugly head once more. Waterdeep maybe, but that looks like its heading into a period of decline. Same with Cormyr in a lot of respects... Sembia isn't in terribly good shape, Tethyr has problems on all sides, Calimshan has an issue of a massive slave population and serious internal issues should war not be immediately successful... Lapaliiya and Tashalar have the economics, but a hidden enemy within with the Yuan-Ti... If I had to make bets on things, I'd say Mulhorand was up there, probably the Zhents as well, if they maintain the status quo and concentrate on consolidating what they already have. Thay if they stick to economics and diplomacy is set to become a major power, but depending on how Tam approaches the internal issues, it could be fairly tenuous I'd say. I'd probably hazard a guess at Turmish emerging as a power, simply because its still relatively stable and has a prime position geographically. Halruaa would probably be up there in a lot of respects, though isolationism precludes them really using that power in a lot of ways, and maybe Dambrath given their relative stability and movements towards trade over aggression. Maybe Nimbral as well, though its location and relatively isolationist policies limit just how powerful they're perceived as, which is probably the case with Evermeet as well. Lantan could be a pretty decent Contender, economically and militarily considering their emerging naval power. If you look at it as a whole rather than as component parts, the Lord's Alliance would certainly be on the list I'd say. So picking 5 of those, and including the Lord's Alliance as a single entity... 1. Zhentil Keep 2/*. Lord's Alliance 3/2. Thay 4/3. Turmish 5/4. Lantan */5. Dambrath (if we're not including the Lord's Alliance as a whole) I can imagine this looks like a weird list, but factoring in what I know of stability and isolationism issues, those would be it for me. :) |
| Xavier_of_Cormyr04-23-07, 08:53 AM | Rashemen... but only at a certain time of the month... :gah: |
| Boda04-23-07, 11:43 AM | Thay, for it the evil empire(big armies, big economy, big population...big everything, ever inner turmoil) Mulhorandi, big to despite not so magic mighty but with a lot more stable society. Great rift, very stable, strong, and not so easily defetead by magic(stuborn dwarfs) Lords alliance could be, but i dont know if it's consideraed a nation. Calimshan could be but the fact that some big epics are about to thrash it all over again (Shoon, twisted rune, nasty pasha's). All others are lacking in something or another. Did you guys noticed that evermeet has over 1.600.000 people! And the largest city only has around 50.000 people!? Guess that the lonely travel in the forest is impossible there(over a million thing scattered in the forests). |
| Lord Karsus04-23-07, 02:08 PM | -Just so you know, the actual definition of a nation is actually a group of people with a common ethnic, religious and/or social bond. The word you are looking for it 'States'. States denote the idea that you are looking for. -Anyway, to further muddy the waters, are we allowed to include historical states, such as Netheril, Aryvandaar and Imaskar? :cool: |
| Renvale99904-23-07, 03:09 PM | 1. Rasheman-For defensive purposes only...that whole swapping spells thing is nasty and circle magic is even worse. 2. Thay-Offensive powerhouse, just need to get there crap together and stop in-fighting. 3. Mulhorand-BIG ARMIES, well led and got their own pantheon in their corner. 4. Waterdeep-Nasty arch-mages and tons of noble houses make for a pretty formidable opponent. 5. Halruaa-Lots of mages and a built in national wall of mountains make these guys pretty awesome. Just my two cents. |
| Philalexandros04-23-07, 05:39 PM | 1 or 2. Evermeet was, hands down, the single most powerful nation on Faerun when I began compiling my list. It possesses even more magical might than Thay or the City of Shade, and boasts a rather unified population of over 1.5 million individuals. Evermeet is the most defensible nation on Faerun, but I;m still not sure it trumps the other power I have it tied to. It has taken some mind-numbingly shoddy products (like Evermeet: Island of the Elves) to make this land look meek. Products like Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves (especially the descriptors of the Akh'Velarn and the Akh'Faern), give a hint of what that nation is capable of. If one applies ratios of defenders to populace that are even remotely similar to Cormanthyr's... The other state tied for #1 most powerful nation? Halruaa. Check out its FRCS entry. 1/3 of the population (approx. 550,000 out of approx. 1.6 million Halruaans) possesses the "Gift"--the ability to cast spells. Of those, 1/3 (over 180,000) of the "Gifted" have at least one level of wizard. That's just ridiculous. Halruaa has to be the most understated power in the FR currently. 3. Mulhorand is an incredibly vaguely described nation, but if it's theocracy is such as I suspect it is, the level of clerical power it possesses must put it somewhere in the order of Thay (even if it does not necessarily possess the sort of high-level guns that could counter the Zulkirs). 4. Thay united would have been #3 on this list. It's not a solid state, though, and I thus drop her to this spot. The power of the Red Wizards, their Zulkir leaders, and their allied mages is simply ridiculous. Were the Zulkirs not intent on interfering or fighting with one another, only the most contrived plot devices would keep them from making the entirety of the Unapproachable East their own empire. 5. Waterdeep is a magically-strong nation with an impressive military and is an economical powerhouse to boot. |
| Tiamat204-23-07, 07:40 PM | There are strange criteria being used here, but geopolitics in the Realms is very hard to get a handle on since there is much about the politics and statecraft of the Realms that is borderline non-sensical (which is to be expected of any fantasy setting; unless you want to roleplay in 18th century Europe, states should be the backdrop of campaigns and not their focus). I would say the following states are the most "powerful" in terms of geopolitics. 1. Calimsham: Unified under a central government, with a large population, and is a high magic state. Calimsham is also surrounded by very weak neighbors. 2. Mulhorand: Perhaps enroute to passing Calimsham, but I think the war might actually have overstretched them slightly. 3. Halruaa: Perhaps like the United Provinces of Baroque Europe, Halruaa compensates for its small population with a unique quality: in this case, lots of magic-users. But its a bit too geographically distant to really matter outside its immediate area (this is why I won't be including Dambrath in this list, despite its population and its unified nature). 4. Thay: See Calimsham, but less unified and in a weaker geographic position. 5. Sembia: Very good location, reasonably wealthy, but a rather marginal political system and not terribly unified. Still, I prefer them over a declining Waterdeep, an over-rated Rashemen, a low-population and poorly located Cormyr, and a disunified Chondath (people forget about Chondath; the FRCS implies its more than just Arrabar, but its not very clear about that). If Chessenta were reasonably unified, it would be more powerful than Sembia. Also, I would be on the look-out for developments in Evermeet and Cormanthyr to see if splitting one state into two doesn't weaken the Elves in the long run. Evermeet doesn't make the list, because until this latest silly trilogy, it had very little influence on any of the states of Faerun. |
| Xavier_of_Cormyr04-23-07, 08:47 PM | -Just so you know, the actual definition of a nation is actually a group of people with a common ethnic, religious and/or social bond. The word you are looking for it 'States'. States denote the idea that you are looking for. -Anyway, to further muddy the waters, are we allowed to include historical states, such as Netheril, Aryvandaar and Imaskar? :cool: I was waiting for a "Karsus" to show up talking about Netheril... ;) But, I think Evermeet SHOULD be... read the 2e info on Evermeet... its like impossible to get there, and if you do... oh baby.. Dragons, High Mages, mythals, unicorn cavalry, centuars, and really, REALLY ethnocentric elves. |
| Stigger04-24-07, 01:28 AM | Kinda hard for me, personally, to include nations that have a semi-active isolationism attitude. If they aren't willing to use the power in anything other than defense and maintaining their isolation, then they really might as well not have it. It renders them largely a non-issue, since if they aren't bothered, they won't respond. |
| Lord Karsus04-24-07, 08:29 AM | I was waiting for a "Karsus" to show up talking about Netheril... ;) -I'm not saying that Netheril should be number one (Personally, I'd give that honor to Aryvandaar), but I find it surprising that no up to when I said that even mentioned it. Sure, it's now defunct, but still... |
| Renvale99904-24-07, 09:57 AM | Okay, I'll put up my two cents as far as "former nations" go. 1. Aryvandaar: Elves united with lots of numbers equals trouble for everyone else. 2. Netheril: Two Words...Nether Scrolls 3. Mulhorhand: In it's prime, before Thay broke off, it was a very nasty and powerful nation. 4. Narfell: Come on, everyone here loves the idea of summoning demons to aid you against your enemies. I bet everyone here sat and wondered what a Balor would do to their boss....anybody??...nobody??...it's just me who has these thoughts??...crap. 5. Sarukh Empires: They conquered Faerun, and the only reason their not first is because their is really no trace of them left, other than that city that has like 60 of those b*stards running around, all of the them liches...man that would stink going into that city by accident.... |
| Lord Karsus04-24-07, 10:03 AM | ::Casts Karsus' Signature Magic, concerning Renevale:: -Now, how about the former states integrated with current states? Where would the current ones stand up? |
| ShadezofDis04-24-07, 10:27 AM | 5. Sembia: Very good location, reasonably wealthy, but a rather marginal political system and not terribly unified. Still, I prefer them over a declining Waterdeep, an over-rated Rashemen, a low-population and poorly located Cormyr, and a disunified Chondath (people forget about Chondath; the FRCS implies its more than just Arrabar, but its not very clear about that). Chondath is definitely powerful and encompasses the lands from Hlath to Arrabar and I'm not sure how far south their power stretches but the boarder is probably the River Arran (sp?) Anyhow, Chondath's power isn't really too huge, they've got too many mitigating factors (Sespech, Hlondeth, Turmish, the denizes of the Chondalwood and the Emerald Enclave, not to mention that Fzoul has purportedly turned his gaze towards the Reach and Chondath is easier to penetrate than Turmish, IMO, and that's just the external ones, the nobility of Chondath is pretty fractitious though Wianar has as good a handle on things as can be expected) Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I wouldn't be suprized if the big powerhouse in the Reach really ends up being the EE. Though I would like to see Turmish be a huge power in the inner sea due to the drought brought on by the Shades (Turmish is pretty well protected weather wise, I imagine most of the rainfall originates from the inner sea and get's funnelled by the mountain ranges that define Turmish's boarder, thus their harvest shouldn't have been effected too terribly, AFAIK, and feeding people is a real easy way to controlling people *g*) But yeah, as to the OP; These cats are coming up with some pretty good answers, though I wouldn't include Waterdeep due to the recent set backs and I'd put money on Thay making it to #1 if they keep up the merchantile trade (if they go to war with someone then I don't think they'll keep things together) Heh, so if Thay keeps up the merchantile angle and Mulhorand solidifies their hold on Unther then I can see quite a rumble going down between Mulhorand and Thay (again). |
| Renvale99904-24-07, 01:59 PM | ::Casts Karsus' Signature Magic, concerning Renevale:: -Now, how about the former states integrated with current states? Where would the current ones stand up? Well, I'm not sure if you're making fun of me or not, but here is my list for: The Most Powerful Nations of All time, both past and present. 1. Aryvandaar: Bottomline, elves back then could stick it to anybody nowadays, period. 2. Netheril: Floating cities=out of range of arrows, in range for people on floating cities to blow up everyone else on the ground. 3. Thay(current): Millions of troops, wizards everywhere, some of the most defensible terrain in all of Faerun...good luck with that one. 4. Sarukh Empires: Bottomline, once they held all the land that the current people now walk on as theirs...that's something that no one to date has accomplished again. 5. Ruamothor: If the witches of Rasheman are any testimant to that nations power, I would have hated to fight them along with the male battlemages of that time. So yeah, only one nation (Thay) could really match up to the nations back then...but that's just my opinion. |
| MerrikCale04-24-07, 03:03 PM | 1. Calimsham: Unified under a central government, with a large population, and is a high magic state. Calimsham is also surrounded by very weak neighbors. I would have to agree that its Calimsham |
| Panurg04-24-07, 03:20 PM | How about Najara? As stated in Serpent Kingdoms they have 273,820 inhabitants and quite big amount of Yuan-Ti and Nagas which are better not to be messed with. (7% Yuans compared to Hlondeths 3% of course with a population twice as big but ...) But my point is: There must be a class of warriors in this realm which can take out every human army of the realms just because of their individual and personal power. 52% of this population are Ophidians and 28% Lizardfolk. Which are both (also as simple 1st level warriors or more simple noncombatants CR 1 or 2) with fighting prowess beyond any human warrior. So in my opinion their rank and file soldiers must be more effective, than any other. (For example as in one of the best defended Outposts of Cormyr Highhorn where most of the Soldiers are War1.) Of course they are not as numerous as other states or nations may be, but I think their shock troops and also their standing armies (and also the tribal lizardfolk have some kinds of tribal warrior armies, because Ebarnaje orders them to have them ;) ) are a match for any Faerunian army and should be mentioned around here. |
| Boda04-24-07, 03:44 PM | of all time? -Imaskar, for making ''slave raid'' all new meaning. -Netherill, they almost destroyed magic for good -Sarrukh, they made the nether scrolls -Ostoria(giants), giant armies, giant construction, ruling the world -Dragons empire(dont know the name), war with giants, armies of dragons note that i didnt place any elven empire because dont know wich was more powerful(aryvaandar, illithyr, etc) |
| Xavier_of_Cormyr04-24-07, 06:25 PM | Kinda hard for me, personally, to include nations that have a semi-active isolationism attitude. If they aren't willing to use the power in anything other than defense and maintaining their isolation, then they really might as well not have it. It renders them largely a non-issue, since if they aren't bothered, they won't respond. true, but in the Last Mythal storyline, a fairly small army from Evermeet made a good show of force against Yugoloths, Fey'ri, and mercenary warriors. |
| Stigger04-24-07, 06:43 PM | Hmmm... haven't read that series actually. I'd wonder if they were acting on behalf of the Elven people as a whole, or on Evermeet's behalf. I'd have to revise my thoughts if it was the latter, but not necessarily if its the former. From what little I understand of it, there's something about a new Coronal in there, which would suggest the former to me. |
| boards04-24-07, 07:18 PM | Chessanta is now under control of Tchazza with the exception of Luthcheq (sp?). They should have quite a strong mercantile as old empires states that if they were united under a king they would easily dominate the inner sea through economics. Now being chaotic evil I dont think that Tchazza would be a wise king, but they should become something of a powerhouse pretty soon. |
| Lord Karsus04-24-07, 11:45 PM | Well, I'm not sure if you're making fun of me or not... -No, I wasn't. But, since I responded to you like five minutes after you posted, I figured that I'd better remind you of my magic! And, I was directing that question at everyone, and not just you. |
| Xavier_of_Cormyr04-25-07, 08:49 AM | well, since we're going down that road..... :dragon: What about the reign of dragons.. y'know, the one that lasted who knows how long, had complete dominance over all of Faerun. I know, I know... it wasn't a real kingdom, but man... that musta sucked big time for every non- dragon. |
| Lord Karsus04-25-07, 09:06 AM | well, since we're going down that road..... :dragon: What about the reign of dragons.. y'know, the one that lasted who knows how long, had complete dominance over all of Faerun. I know, I know... it wasn't a real kingdom, but man... that musta sucked big time for every non- dragon. -That would be the Wyrm, Nagamat. |
| BrennonGoldeye04-25-07, 09:23 AM | What about the reign of dragons.. y'know, the one that lasted who knows how long, had complete dominance over all of Faerun. I know, I know... it wasn't a real kingdom, but man... that musta sucked big time for every non- dragon. It didn't suck that much, as long as you behaved like the possible appetizer you were. Come to think of it, maybe that's why the demihumans(gawd I despise that word) of the realms seem to be so resilient. Draconic butt-monkey training makes hordes of humanoids look like a cakewalk.;) |
| Xavier_of_Cormyr04-25-07, 12:39 PM | I can see it now.. Monster Manual V- the "Draconic Butt-Monkey" template... |
| BrennonGoldeye04-25-07, 12:49 PM | :rofl: - Luv me some Xavier... |
| Lord Karsus04-25-07, 06:32 PM | I can see it now.. Monster Manual V- the "Draconic Butt-Monkey" template... -I'm afraid to ask, but what abilities would that grant the base creature? :gah: |
| BrennonGoldeye04-25-07, 08:50 PM | :whatsthis .....better have some serious damage resistance...:dragon: |
| Boda04-27-07, 07:19 PM | Well, acordingly with Power of Faerun, there are four ways,pillars, roads, whatever you wanna call it, aspects of ''power''. Economics(gold, trade, production), Military(armies, mercenaries, geographical location, special units), Politics(stability, aliances) and Magic(sheer spellpower, items). The problem is that no single nation today on FR is top notch in all four aspects of power, and even more, a few of the suspects are poor stated anywhere(mulhorandi, deep imaskar, orueme, etc). Some people give more importance to one aspect over another but in any given long term campaign, the lack of dynamics of one of them will be noteworthy. So military speaking, my top five pick would be; Thay, Great Rift, Mulhorandi, Chessenta, Calimshan. Politics area; Waterdeep, Cormyr, Turmish, Evermeet, Impiltur Economics pespective; Calimsham, Amn, Sembia, Thay, Waterdeep Magic aspect; Evermeet, Thay, Shade, Halruaa, Calimsham But then again, there's alot of nations or states that are poorly described, so all this maybe be a bit on the hipotesis way, and nobody take's in to account the underdark nations(oryndoll, underspires, guallidurth, deep imaskar, etc). |
| Khaelieth04-27-07, 07:29 PM | Magic aspect; Evermeet, Thay, Shade, Halruaa, Calimsham Errrmmmmm... Aglarond? |
| XHereticX04-27-07, 07:31 PM | Currently the most powerful nation in all of Toril is Shou Lung, but on Faerun specifically it seriously depends on what you mean by powerful and the field of specification. I would agree with most of what Boda put down except you people seem to have forgotten the Lords' Alliance, a nation in their own right with great political influence and a huge standing army. |
| Boda04-27-07, 09:15 PM | Errrmmmmm... Aglarond? ?Why? |
| Boda04-27-07, 09:17 PM | Currently the most powerful nation in all of Toril is Shou Lung, but on Faerun specifically it seriously depends on what you mean by powerful and the field of specification. I would agree with most of what Boda put down except you people seem to have forgotten the Lords' Alliance, a nation in their own right with great political influence and a huge standing army. Isnt the Lords alliance a association of nations? They dont share political systems or leaders. More like a NATO or a UN? |
| Khaelieth04-28-07, 05:57 AM | ?Why? 'Cause Thay aren't able to annex em. Wouldn't that mean Thay's the weaker part? |
| Stigger04-28-07, 07:30 AM | NATO/EU would probably be a good analogy of the Lord's Alliance, though not nearly as formal as either group. Mutual defense and trade alliance would be a fairly decent description of them I guess. Thay's not necessarily weaker, per se, but far less organized and lacking anything even remotely resembling unity at the moment. Were they to suddenly acquire those two traits somehow, I'd say Aglarond had a much more unsure future. |
| Boda04-28-07, 08:03 AM | 'Cause Thay aren't able to annex em. Wouldn't that mean Thay's the weaker part? It isnt Thay that cant annex aglarond, it's some zulkirs that couldnt annex aglarond. Per example, U.S.A. couldnt control Vietnam, but that doesnt mean that they're weaker, it just meant that werent wiling to take that many hits to do it. |
| Khaelieth04-28-07, 09:22 AM | I don't see the Zulkirs "unwilling" to let their soldiers die en masse to conquer somewhere. But what about fleets? Everaska must be the most powerful naval power having never lost a sea battle!! |
| XHereticX04-28-07, 04:32 PM | Bah, the only reason Agralond is still alive is because of the Simbul(who to me is a even bigger munchkin than Elminster). If she went away Agralond's virtually nonexistant army and farmers would have fallen to Thay long ago. |
| Boda04-28-07, 05:32 PM | I don't see the Zulkirs "unwilling" to let their soldiers die en masse to conquer somewhere. But what about fleets? Everaska must be the most powerful naval power having never lost a sea battle!! If letting them die to conquer something valueble, sure, but the only true reason why thay want to control aglarond is for strategics reasons(remove a threat from their flank). And if let say, 2 zulkirs waste their military to do that, they would be more vunerable to their rivals in thay(and thay politics always comes first). When thay commits it's full resources to conquering aglarond and simbul & co. win, then will that claim be true. Evereska?? Are you sure? |
| Lord Karsus04-28-07, 08:45 PM | Everaska must be the most powerful naval power having never lost a sea battle!! -Evereska is landlocked. You are thinking of Evermeet. |
| MarkusTay6304-28-07, 08:49 PM | Actually, they had quite a navy back when the Narrow sea was still there, LK. :D In fact, their port town still exists right near karse... you of all people should have known that. ;) |
| Stigger04-28-07, 10:07 PM | And those punks in Yartar probably ripped off that idea for an armored riverine warship from the Evereskans as well... :D |
| Mazaron04-30-07, 12:24 PM | What are the most powerful nation in Faerun? Lets say the top five. My FR campaign for much of its existence was heavily political and we even had wars and new countries arise. Setting the ones that appeared as a result of the campaign I would say: 1. Cormyr 2. Sembia 3. Mulhorand 4. Thay 5. Amn Cormyr I treated as France was Azoun as King Louis XIV. It was powerful and expansionistic nation, had a large navy and a large army and was looking to set up colonies and trading posts throughout the Inner Sea, meddled in politics throughout the northern Inner Sea using gunboat diplomacy, and was expanding overland westward and northward. Sembia was it biggest rival and sought to check Cormyrean influence in the Inner Sea. Even though it was nearly as powerful, it often sought to ally with the smaller powers of the Inner Sea, if not quiite in a Cold War type scenario, than pretty close to it. Mulhorand was a sleeping giant, a very powerful nation with very powerful gods. It had a "middle kingdom" menality; it was the center of the world, people should come to it, what does the rest of the world matter? However, if it did awake it would be a vast force to reckon with. Thay. Powerful, not only with its wizards but with a large army. However, much of its energy was devoted to keeping its citzenry in check, a cold war situation with Mulhorand, and supporting proxies in Aglarond and Rashemen. Amn. Basically Imperial Spain in my setting, all the more powerful because the previous four on the list were nowhere near it. Other notable ones: Lantan. The biggest check on Amn in Maztica, very active navy and mercantile fleet, more maneuverable than Amn's, overall of better quality. Smaller army though and smaller coffers though the latter was changing. Calimshan. Decaying, but once powerful. Still a check on Amn but a declining one. In my campaign it was originally settled by people from Zakhara. Zhentil Keep I see is on many lists. I wouldn't say they were especially powerful, they just had their fingers in so many pies. They were a rogue state, too difficult for the other great powers to smash. |
| Mazaron04-30-07, 12:26 PM | -Evereska is landlocked. You are thinking of Evermeet. I had Evermeet as insanely powerful, just more of a sleeping giant than even Mulhorand was. They only allied with the mortal nations once an interplanar war occurred (which in my campaign, did). Evereska I treated as an out of the way, hard to reach, isolationists elven Tibet. |
| Mazaron04-30-07, 12:30 PM | Bah, the only reason Agralond is still alive is because of the Simbul(who to me is a even bigger munchkin than Elminster). If she went away Agralond's virtually nonexistant army and farmers would have fallen to Thay long ago. I quite agree. Well, that and in my campaign she got covert and some overt support from the other great powers, notably Sembia, to keep Thay in check. Sometimes she would play Sembia and Cormyr off each other to see who gave her the most to help her nation. She often allied with the smaller Inner Sea nations. In my campaign the island of Prespur was an Italian-flavored mercantile nation, Altumbel (the western end of the Aglarond Peninsula) was a pirate nation that had gone legit, and I had as small nations Kelthann (modeled after Monaco) and Alphar(another semi-legit pirate nation). The PCs made the Whamite Isles into a nation as well, known as Caladan. They often worked together, the little guys against the big guys (Cormyr, Sembia, Thay, Mulhorand and to an extent Impiltur). |
| Mazaron04-30-07, 12:38 PM | So military speaking, my top five pick would be; Thay, Great Rift, Mulhorandi, Chessenta, Calimshan. **I wouldn't have Chessenta on the list. Heavily militarized, but basically a battle ground between Amn and Calimshan. Interesting choice in the Great Rift. Agree on Mulhorand, Thay, and Calimshan but I would have Cormyr and Sembia. They are just too big, too vital, too important not to have large militaries. Cormyr has to defend borders against goblins and gnolls, is trying to expand northward and westward, and in my campaign had a very large navy. Sembia also had a very large navy and an army too, neither quite as large as Cormyr though still sizable and aided by allying with other powers from time to time like Aglarond, Impiltur, Prespur, Altumbel, Kelthann, and Alphar. Politics area; Waterdeep, Cormyr, Turmish, Evermeet, Impiltur ****Turmish, yes, good choice there. I made them quite political. Again, good choice on Impiltur, they were keenly politcal in my campaign. Evermeet? Nope, very isolationists. I would delete them, add Sembia. Waterdeep can stay. Economics pespective; Calimsham, Amn, Sembia, Thay, Waterdeep ****I would replace Thay with Cormyr. Good for you for including Sembia, everybody forgets them! Magic aspect; Evermeet, Thay, Shade, Halruaa, Calimsham *No argrument here, though Mulhorand might should be on the list if one includes preistly magic, which is darn powerful there. But then again, there's alot of nations or states that are poorly described, so all this maybe be a bit on the hipotesis way, and nobody take's in to account the underdark nations(oryndoll, underspires, guallidurth, deep imaskar, etc).[/QUOTE] ***By and large I liked your list. Sounds like you know the FR pretty well and we largely agree. I agree with the poorly developed part; I really fleshed out Redwater Dale (the Netherlands basically), Prespur (Sicily/Venice), Kelthann (Monaco), Alphar (pirate kingdom gone legit), Atlumbel (semi-Greek/pirate kingdom gone good), and Gulthmere (long story, most of the campaign took place there, the Pirate Isles, and the Whamite Isles, though later on wilderness areas south of Gulthmere and also Chessenta became important). Oh. Chessenta became a major power in my campaign though only after it became united, with the PCs help of course. |
| Ramenth04-30-07, 01:27 PM | As far as Thay goes; arent they in the proccess of exploding right now? Or being over run with Undead? Or something similar. And Shade; Aren't they about to enter a war/some other conflict with Sembia? |
| Mazaron04-30-07, 02:07 PM | As far as Thay goes; arent they in the proccess of exploding right now? Or being over run with Undead? Or something similar. And Shade; Aren't they about to enter a war/some other conflict with Sembia? Couldn't tell you. I don't know any FR news younger than five or six years I would suppose. I was very familiar with it at one time but I admit I don't know some of the latest buzz. I don't know what Shade is for instance. As for undead and Thay, one, I wouldn't be surprised all the dark magic they used, 2, would be curious to find out what type of undead is doing the over running. |
| Lord Karsus05-01-07, 05:52 PM | I don't know what Shade is for instance. -The Netherese enclave that escaped into the Plane of Shadows right before my "folly". Recently, in DR 1372, it returned. Ironically, it's return was very interweaved with the fate of Evereska. And Shade; Aren't they about to enter a war/some other conflict with Sembia? -Perhaps. The Twilight War trilogy will shine more light on that issue. In my opinion, I don't see Shade and Sembia getting into any kind of armed conflicts with each other. What's going in in Sembia, without getting into too much detail, is more to do with Prince Rivalen specifically then the official hierarchy of the City of Shade. I had Evermeet as insanely powerful, just more of a sleeping giant than even Mulhorand was...Evereska I treated as an out of the way, hard to reach, isolationists elven Tibet. -That aptly describes each place. Actually, they had quite a navy back when the Narrow sea was still there, LK. :D In fact, their port town still exists right near karse... you of all people should have known that. ;) -This is Evereska we're talking about here- it's only a single city. There is a river nearby (River Chionthar), but it doesn't flow through the city. |
| Boda05-01-07, 10:39 PM | Yep, i tought evereska was far from any sea. Maybe the most powerful nation is chult. After all, isnt were it's supossed the end of the Realms to begin( dendar-that lame serpent from CoR)? I see Sembia signing a trade treaty with Shade sooner then go to war on them. |
| Lord Karsus05-01-07, 11:28 PM | Maybe the most powerful nation is chult. After all, isnt were it's supossed the end of the Realms to begin( dendar-that lame serpent from CoR)? -If you believe that myth, yes. I see Sembia signing a trade treaty with Shade sooner then go to war on them. -Well, much is going on in Sembia as of late. We shall see, I guess... |
| The Ubbergeek05-02-07, 05:21 PM | There is no real superpower anymore in modern Faerun - it's very much a multipolar entity. |
| WilliamTheSly05-02-07, 06:57 PM | While I agree with most of the honorable mentions, I will put forward one of my own. Silver Marches. While not a singular state/nation, persay, they can be something akin to a mini-european union. And as far as might goes, rouse all three dwarven holds, the three human cities, Mirabar, and the wonderous Silverymoon (not to mention the barbarian tribes, and the elves protecting the outlying forests) and you have an incredibly formidable army as far as sheer power of steel and bow is concerned. Aside from that, I would have to agree with Mulhorand, EverMeet, Thay and if we stretch to just outside of Faerun proper... Shao Lung. |
| Boda05-02-07, 07:25 PM | While I agree with most of the honorable mentions, I will put forward one of my own. Silver Marches. While not a singular state/nation, persay, they can be something akin to a mini-european union. And as far as might goes, rouse all three dwarven holds, the three human cities, Mirabar, and the wonderous Silverymoon (not to mention the barbarian tribes, and the elves protecting the outlying forests) and you have an incredibly formidable army as far as sheer power of steel and bow is concerned. Aside from that, I would have to agree with Mulhorand, EverMeet, Thay and if we stretch to just outside of Faerun proper... Shao Lung. Mirabar isnt a member of the silver marches, and the barbarians either. By the GtSM, the confederation can gather around 8000 professional troops, 60 spellcasters(from 5th to 11th).This hardly puts them in the same leage with the other mentioned nations. |
| XHereticX05-02-07, 09:29 PM | I had Evermeet as insanely powerful, just more of a sleeping giant than even Mulhorand was. They only allied with the mortal nations once an interplanar war occurred (which in my campaign, did). Evereska I treated as an out of the way, hard to reach, isolationists elven Tibet. Well, consitering that after the Retreat Evermeet now contains the populations(sure, reduced from war and troubled times, but still) of most of the elven kingdoms on Faerun, I am not suprised. And overall looking at the map I have to say that the power differences between the nations of Faerun are quite insignificant and most are actually quite well-balanced in power. They all just keep each other in check and there really is no superpower that is a simultanious threat to the entire continent like the Empire of Luz in Greyhawk or the Dragonarmies of Neraka in DL. If there is any nation that is truly above the rest on Toril, it is Shou Lung, which is probably the size of all of Faerun's major nations combined. |
| Mazaron05-02-07, 09:36 PM | It isnt Thay that cant annex aglarond, it's some zulkirs that couldnt annex aglarond. Per example, U.S.A. couldnt control Vietnam, but that doesnt mean that they're weaker, it just meant that werent wiling to take that many hits to do it. I always viewed it as: 1) Too much trouble 2) It would weaken Thay too much (Mulhorand might take advantage of a weakened Thay, or at least Thayvian leaders fear that) 3) Countries like Cormyr and my unnamed league of small countries would step in to stop it |
| Mazaron05-02-07, 09:42 PM | Well, consitering that after the Retreat Evermeet now contains the populations(sure, reduced from war and troubled times, but still) of most of the elven kingdoms on Faerun, I am not suprised. **Well, Evermeet at least when I was buying FR materials contained most of the elves but certainly not all of them, but by and large any Elven political power resides there. I had the elves have some political power in the nation of Gulthmere, a few left in the Elven Court, and Everseka (which was isolationist). I also had a monastic elven island in the Pirate Isles too. And overall looking at the map I have to say that the power differences between the nations of Faerun are quite insignificant and most are actually quite well-balanced in power. They all just keep each other in check and there really is no superpower that is a simultanious threat to the entire continent like the Empire of Luz in Greyhawk or the Dragonarmies of Neraka in DL. ***I would agree. There are powerful nations - like Cormyr - but not so powerful that they can just run roughshod over their neighbors. Greyhawk from what I remember had not only superpowers but evil superpowers. IMC Mulhorand could be that way if it wanted to but culturally and politically it just had no interest in doing so. If there is any nation that is truly above the rest on Toril, it is Shou Lung, which is probably the size of all of Faerun's major nations combined. ***Total agreeent. IMC the interplanar war's tide was turned for the humans when Shou Lung got invovled. The players were ecstatic when a samurai army saved the day! Only distance and the Middle-Kingdom-who-cares-about-the-barbarous-rest-of-the-world attitude saves Faerun from Shou Lung (though the Tuigan horde and Rashemen make nice buffers). |
| Khaelieth05-03-07, 06:53 AM | -Evereska is landlocked. You are thinking of Evermeet. Nope, I'm thinking of Everaska;) Much like the Swiss, they've never lost a ship at sea. |
| MalariaMoon05-04-07, 05:00 PM | Oooh good question; I would definitely consider Thay to be number one. It the one of the few places in the Realms that has that kind of Mordor feel to it; you know if you throw your PCs into Thay they're going to have very few friends to turn to. And of late, they've even got significant economic power to add to the throngs of powerful wizards and the legions of undead, gnolls and Blooded orcs. Scary! The only other nation I would consider a rival would be Evermeet. But I kind of view Evermeet as being so insular that it doesn't really feature in Realms geopolitics, unless someone is stupid enough to send an armada to its shores. Behind these two, I imagine Mulhorand and Unther as being fairly powerful - not as strong as ages past but still smashing up the sandpit down in the South. Amn would also be on the list thanks to its economic might, certainly above Waterdeep as it is a nation rather than a single city. I don't really figure the Lord's Alliance as a major player, I've always thought of it as a handful of smaller towns cuddling up to Waterdeep and yelping "help us, the orc hordes are coming!". Maybe if they hooked up with the Silver Marches??? Not exactly a top five, but a few ideas |
| rolig05-05-07, 07:29 AM | as stigger says, it depend on how you look on things... okey they is powerful but has a lotof enemyes. I won't make a list... but i just wan't to mind everyone not to forget all underdark sites, sure menzoberranzan f.ex is powerful in many ways;) just my 2 cents, or whatevah you americans say:rolleyes: |
| Mazaron05-05-07, 04:15 PM | I would definitely consider Thay to be number one. It the one of the few places in the Realms that has that kind of Mordor feel to it; you know if you throw your PCs into Thay they're going to have very few friends to turn to. And of late, they've even got significant economic power to add to the throngs of powerful wizards and the legions of undead, gnolls and Blooded orcs. Scary! I just don't see them as number one, but then I play my version of the FR for many years. Top five, yes, but not top position. For me that was Cormyr. It seems like the official version has gotten beaten down a good bit since I started playing and I think I may have exaggerated the power of "my" Cormyr a good bit. To me Thay was too internal divided to have that much of a unified policy but more to the point was kept in check by Mulhorand, Rashemen, and the various nothern Inner Sea powers like Cormyr and Sembia (who aided Aglarond). The only other nation I would consider a rival would be Evermeet. But I kind of view Evermeet as being so insular that it doesn't really feature in Realms geopolitics, unless someone is stupid enough to send an armada to its shores. Powerful, yes, very powerful but so isolationist that power almost didn't matter. And they are so far from Faerun's shores, amost halfway or more to Maztica. They don't have much day to day influence on Faerun. Behind these two, I imagine Mulhorand and Unther as being fairly powerful - not as strong as ages past but still smashing up the sandpit down in the South. Mulhorand, yes, very powerful. I had the gods quite present (or at least their avatars) in Mulhorand (think go'uald from Stargate SG-1) but were very Chinese "Middle Kingdom" in their attitudes, not really caring much about the rest of the world, the world should come to it. They did keep Thay in check though. Unther even back in 2E days was already pretty weak and losing to Mulhorand. Amn would also be on the list thanks to its economic might, certainly above Waterdeep as it is a nation rather than a single city. Amn is basically Spain. I see them (and saw them) as a major and growing power. I don't really figure the Lord's Alliance as a major player, I've always thought of it as a handful of smaller towns cuddling up to Waterdeep and yelping "help us, the orc hordes are coming!". Maybe if they hooked up with the Silver Marches??? I don't see the Lord's Alliance is even in a top ten. I do see Calimshan up on the list though. Sembia too. |
| Philalexandros05-05-07, 04:33 PM | Mazaron... If you put another poster's text within quotation brackets, it makes for much more legible posts. :) Example: Put the word "quote" (just the word, no quotation marks) inside two brackets such as these [], type your text, and then put the word "/quote" inside two more brackets (as above). The result will look like this random message Of course, I suppose you might simply not like to use the quotes feature, but I'll be honest with you... I just thought the other poster double-posted. |
| Mazaron05-05-07, 04:38 PM | Mazaron... If you put another poster's text within quotation brackets, it makes for much more legible posts. :) Example: Put the word "quote" (just the word, no quotation marks) inside two brackets such as these [], type your text, and then put the word "/quote" inside two more brackets (as above). The result will look like this Of course, I suppose you might simply not like to use the quotes feature, but I'll be honest with you... I just thought the other poster double-posted. I honestly thought I had used the quote brackets correctly, I was playing around with it. I had been marking my writings with a *** but I thought I could do like others with having a block of quoted text and then obvious new text. I tried something different on this one post and what I can say it didn't work! |
| Philalexandros05-05-07, 04:41 PM | Next time, you will be docked 5 Wizards Community Dollars. :D |
| Mazaron05-05-07, 04:41 PM | I just don't see Thay as number one, but then I play my version of the FR for many years. Top five, yes, but not top position. For me that was Cormyr. It seems like the official version has gotten beaten down a good bit since I started playing and I think I may have exaggerated the power of "my" Cormyr a good bit. To me Thay was too internal divided to have that much of a unified policy but more to the point was kept in check by Mulhorand, Rashemen, and the various nothern Inner Sea powers like Cormyr and Sembia (who aided Aglarond). Evermeet is powerful, yes, very powerful but so isolationist that power almost didn't matter. And they are so far from Faerun's shores, amost halfway or more to Maztica. They don't have much day to day influence on Faerun. Mulhorand, yes, very powerful. I had the gods quite present (or at least their avatars) in Mulhorand (think go'uald from Stargate SG-1) but were very Chinese "Middle Kingdom" in their attitudes, not really caring much about the rest of the world, the world should come to it. They did keep Thay in check though. Unther even back in 2E days was already pretty weak and losing to Mulhorand. Amn is basically Spain. I see them (and saw them) as a major and growing power. I don't see the Lord's Alliance is even in a top ten. I do see Calimshan up on the list though. Sembia too.[/QUOTE] |
| XHereticX05-05-07, 04:54 PM | Well as of "Unclean", Thay is now engaged in civil war. So much for a united Mordorlike superpower. And Thay is more of a mercentile power rather than a millitary power with the rise of Thayan Enclave literally monopolizing the Magic item trade and lessons learned from severe military defeats at the hands of Agralond and Rashemen. Plus, Thay has always seemed like many separate nations united in an uneasy confederacy rather than a true nation. With each of the Zulkirs being their own little tyrant and no end of squabbling tharchions. |
| Mazaron05-05-07, 05:04 PM | Well as of "Unclean", Thay is now engaged in civil war. So much for a united Mordorlike superpower. And Thay is more of a mercentile power rather than a millitary power with the rise of Thayan Enclave literally monopolizing the Magic item trade and lessons learned from severe military defeats at the hands of Agralond and Rashemen. Plus, Thay has always seemed like many separate nations united in an uneasy confederacy rather than a true nation. With each of the Zulkirs being their own little tyrant and no end of squabbling tharchions. ***Interesting thought but I never saw Thay quite as a Mordor. I did see conflicts with Aglarond and Rashemen and keeping ready for Mulhorand as drainig Thayvian power. I saw them partly as mercantile, partly as a fascist regime without any clear main central leader, as if Nazi Germany had lost Hitler but Goering, Gobbels, Himmler, and others were vying through bureaucracy and though cloak and dagger operations for the leadership. Meanwhile things go on much the same for the populace, something like a LE society. |
| Lord Karsus05-05-07, 06:52 PM | Evermeet is powerful, yes, very powerful but so isolationist that power almost didn't matter. And they are so far from Faerun's shores, amost halfway or more to Maztica. They don't have much day to day influence on Faerun. -In the past, yes, but now that Myth Drannor is in the process of being rebuilt, methinks that this will change greatly. After all, the majority of the Elves who fought in the Elven Crusade were from Evermeet. The majority of the Elves who will live in Myth Drannor will have been from Evermeet. Eventually, some noble house or another is going to start to try to pull the political strings over in Myth Drannor. |
| Philalexandros05-05-07, 06:59 PM | Originally Posted by Mazaron Evermeet is powerful, yes, very powerful but so isolationist that power almost didn't matter. And they are so far from Faerun's shores, amost halfway or more to Maztica. They don't have much day to day influence on Faerun. Also, it should be taken into consideration that, via magic, known portals, and elf-gates, the ability for Evermeet to influence events on Faerun is actually pretty good. Look at the battle for Evereska; that city was heavily reinforced by Evermeet's forces. |
| Mazaron05-05-07, 07:37 PM | -In the past, yes, but now that Myth Drannor is in the process of being rebuilt, methinks that this will change greatly. After all, the majority of the Elves who fought in the Elven Crusade were from Evermeet. The majority of the Elves who will live in Myth Drannor will have been from Evermeet. Eventually, some noble house or another is going to start to try to pull the political strings over in Myth Drannor. I am afraid I am not up on current FR history. The last sources I read and how I played it in my campaign there was but a tiny number of elves still in Myth Drannor and the Elven Court (the latter being the name of the wood around Myth Drannor). Of course, my Evermeet went from being isolationist to being dragged into an interplanar war that started on Faerun. I used Spelljammer to provide them with aerial ships and adopted from somewhere I had read that Evermeet had carriers for its aerial forces. I made them into quite the superpower. The name escape me at the moment, but there was also a covert ops type group, Elven Swords maybe? I can't remember. I had them behind the scenes and active like the Harpers and various other groups. |
| Lord Karsus05-05-07, 09:35 PM | I am afraid I am not up on current FR history. The last sources I read and how I played it in my campaign there was but a tiny number of elves still in Myth Drannor and the Elven Court (the latter being the name of the wood around Myth Drannor). -In 1374, Sarya Dlardraegeth and the Fey'ri launched an attack on Evermeet and Evereska. The first major battle was at Evermeet, and then at Myth Glaurach (the "HQ" of the Fey'ri). The Fey'ri were routed from Myth Glaurach, and fled to Myth Drannor. The army that repelled them the first time (The Elven Crusade), followed them to Myth Drannor and defeated them, recapturing the city. Oh, and a magical second Tree of Souls somehow appeared, and has been planted in the city...:rolleyes: -As of DR 1380, we know that the city becomes "cleaned-up" enough for Ilsevel Miritar to be given the Rulersblade by the Srinshee and become the new Coronal. Of course, my Evermeet went from being isolationist to being dragged into an interplanar war that started on Faerun. I used Spelljammer to provide them with aerial ships and adopted from somewhere I had read that Evermeet had carriers for its aerial forces. I made them into quite the superpower. -Evermeet does have Spelljammer ports and such, and is in good relations with the IEN. The name escape me at the moment, but there was also a covert ops type group, Elven Swords maybe? I can't remember. I had them behind the scenes and active like the Harpers and various other groups. -The only thing I can think of is the Eldreth Veluuthra. They are an Elven covert-ops organization, sort of. More like terrorists, in actuality. But, they really aren't too much like the Harpers. In fact, they hate the Harpers... |
| Xavier_of_Cormyr05-06-07, 09:39 AM | Currently.. Thay shouldn't be anywhere in the top 5, BUT... ... from the looks of the ongoings of "Unclean" Thay is in for a overhaul & everybody better look out... |
| Khaelieth05-06-07, 03:35 PM | The Zhent might be in the top five. Even if they're too incompetent to conquer a backwater town in a forest. |
| Mazaron05-06-07, 11:14 PM | [sblock]-In 1374, Sarya Dlardraegeth and the Fey'ri launched an attack on Evermeet and Evereska. The first major battle was at Evermeet, and then at Myth Glaurach (the "HQ" of the Fey'ri). The Fey'ri were routed from Myth Glaurach, and fled to Myth Drannor. The army that repelled them the first time (The Elven Crusade), followed them to Myth Drannor and defeated them, recapturing the city. Oh, and a magical second Tree of Souls somehow appeared, and has been planted in the city...:rolleyes: ***Thanks for that, but I don't know some of those term, such as the Fey'ri, Coronal, or the Tree of Souls. Sounds very interesting and well developed. Don't go to the trouble of defining, not asking you do to that, but in a nutshell, what are the elves doing? Why come back to Faerun (as I don't consider Evermeet part of Faerun)? -Evermeet does have Spelljammer ports and such, and is in good relations with the IEN. **Sure. And even if you don't use Spelljammer (my players hated it) they actually liked them having those type ships (of course the fact that they were aiding the pc's side in a war had a lot do with it I am sure). -The only thing I can think of is the Eldreth Veluuthra. They are an Elven covert-ops organization, sort of. More like terrorists, in actuality. But, they really aren't too much like the Harpers. In fact, they hate the Harpers... ****Sounds like what I am thinking of. Looking at my notes, I had there was organization like that (though they sometimes worked with the Harpers) called the Bladesingers. I don't have a source but I am postive I got the idea from some 2E source material. They didn't have a big role in the campaign per se but were a background thing. The PCs worked a lot with the Harpers and with a new group we created, the Shadow Knights instead. |
| Khaelieth05-07-07, 06:55 AM | Looking at my notes, I had there was organization like that (though they sometimes worked with the Harpers) called the Bladesingers. I don't have a source but I am postive I got the idea from some 2E source material. ... WHAT? Bladesingers are elven wizard/fighters, not an organisation. |
| Lord Karsus05-07-07, 08:52 AM | ***Thanks for that, but I don't know some of those term, such as the Fey'ri, Coronal, or the Tree of Souls. Sounds very interesting and well developed. Don't go to the trouble of defining, not asking you do to that, but in a nutshell, what are the elves doing? Why come back to Faerun (as I don't consider Evermeet part of Faerun)? Fey'ri: Elven subrace that interbred with Demons long ago, and because of such, was sealed away in stasis. Coronal: The Elven term for "Great Speaker", and the leader of a large Elven settlement Tree of Souls: Magical tree artifact that contains the souls of the Elven High Magi who died during the casting of the Sundering. -Might I suggest you peruse the articles and essays in Elves of Faerūn? -Basically, what happened it: They Fey'ri attacked Evermeet, and obtained a shard of the powerful Gatekeeper's Crystal. Sarya Dlardraegeth, the leader of the Fey'ri, then decided to attack the Elven settlement of Evereska. Evereska asked for assistance from Evermeet, because the city was relativley weak at the time, due to everything that went on in the Return of the Archwizards Trilogy. The army from Evermeet defeated the Fey'ri, and then gave chase, booting them from their own HQ in Myth Glaurach. When the Fey'ri retreated to Myth Drannor, the leader of the Elven Crusade, as it was called now, Saeveril Miritar decided to make and all-or-nothing move and eliminate the Fey'ri all together. The Crusade did so, and in the end, gained posession of Myth Drannor once again. **Sure. And even if you don't use Spelljammer (my players hated it) they actually liked them having those type ships (of course the fact that they were aiding the pc's side in a war had a lot do with it I am sure). -Who wouldn't like giant flying butterflies helping them? :) ... WHAT? Bladesingers are elven wizard/fighters, not an organisation. -They do tend to work together, in groups, though. |
| Khaelieth05-07-07, 09:04 AM | I was meaning they're not an organisation like the Eldreth Veluuthra or the Harpers, they're more akin High Magi and the like, people with the same profession. I'd say they're more a society than anything else. |
| Lord Karsus05-07-07, 09:14 AM | I was meaning they're not an organisation like the Eldreth Veluuthra or the Harpers, they're more akin High Magi and the like, people with the same profession. I'd say they're more a society than anything else. -A brotherhood. A fraternity. And so on... |
| Khaelieth05-07-07, 11:21 AM | Then we're agreed=) But they're nowhere near like an organisation like the Harpers. |
| Boda05-07-07, 02:57 PM | Forgot a main candidate to magic powerhouse nation: deep imaskar. |
| Lord Karsus05-07-07, 02:59 PM | Forgot a main candidate to magic powerhouse nation: deep imaskar. -Deep Imaskar barely exists today, after being ravaged by Pandorym. It's a shell of it's former self, and a shell of a shell of Imaskar. |
| Xavier_of_Cormyr05-07-07, 08:09 PM | -Deep Imaskar barely exists today, after being ravaged by Pandorym. It's a shell of it's former self, and a shell of a shell of Imaskar. well, they never actually detailed the amount of havoc that went down in ol' Deep Imaskar. It was described as being bad, but who knows. |
| THETUNNELRAT05-07-07, 10:24 PM | Strong trade + friendly relations with others who's well being is tied to your continuing growth = Many coming to aid said nation in times of war. I think sear numbers of one nation are irrelevant when it comes down to it its Good relations with others that wins conflicts. My vote goes to The many that makes one ....The Lord's Alliance . Waterdeep granted has more internal problems that make it weak in lots of respects , but what major city doesn't and if Thay would jest fall under one Rule and stop having their BS secret wars then may be they would take over the world. Thay is one of my favorites with the most derives armies and if the sots jest got along then ....:cheer: :invasion: :invasion: :emp: |
| MazrimTaim05-08-07, 12:31 AM | Let us not forget what organization pulls the strings in Calimshan. I'd rank it in the top five. |
| Krash05-08-07, 08:02 AM | [Oh, and a magical second Tree of Souls somehow appeared, and has been planted in the city...:rolleyes: What 'magical second Tree of Souls'? Last time I checked, there was only one Tree of Souls. -- George Krashos |
| Lord Karsus05-08-07, 09:28 AM | What 'magical second Tree of Souls'? Last time I checked, there was only one Tree of Souls. -- George Krashos -Which was not planted in Evermeet, mind you, and was in posession of Prince Lamruil, who, as far as we know, never returned to Evermeet. Thus, as far as we know, the Tree of Souls that was given to him is still with him, out there, somewhere. Don't get me started on this topic... -You can say that Lamruil must have returned to Evermeet and planted the tree there (which would make no sense, by the way). You can also say that Drizzt Do'Urden and Artemis Entreri are lovers. Both situations are supposition without any facts to back them up. Show me one hint that suggests that Prince Lamruil returned to Evermeet and planted the Tree of Souls there... |
| Lord_Steve05-08-07, 12:36 PM | [QUOTE=Renvale999;12199569]Okay, I'll put up my two cents as far as "former nations" go. 1. Aryvandaar: Elves united with lots of numbers equals trouble for everyone else. QUOTE] *put's on a fake beard and does his best Dwarven accent*......Durned Elves |
| THETUNNELRAT05-08-07, 07:00 PM | MazrimTaim yes ..Good point a full all out war between Thay and Calimshan would be fun. |
| Krash05-08-07, 07:20 PM | Show me one hint that suggests that Prince Lamruil returned to Evermeet and planted the Tree of Souls there... :D I can't. Not yet at least. -- George Krashos |
| ShadezofDis05-08-07, 08:37 PM | :D I can't. Not yet at least. -- George Krashos Oh, that's evil, pure evil. :D |
| Lord Karsus05-08-07, 11:55 PM | :D I can't. Not yet at least. -- George Krashos -Then until then, they are two seperate entities... |
| Stigger05-09-07, 04:15 AM | If we can have two sets of Nether Scrolls, why not two Trees? :D |
| GothicDan05-09-07, 06:47 AM | To me, it still seems to devalue the uniqueness of the Tree somewhat to have two of them. The reason why it (and thus Lamruil's quest) was so important was largely because it made it seem like he was the big hope of bringing the Elves back, and it was all made possible by this divine-granted tree, which would bring Elven High Magic up to par around it. Sure, the Seldarine -could- have given them more than one, or they -could- have made the tree so that it drops acorns or can give saplings as offshoots... But that kind of make's Lamruil's whole quest a bit less dramatic and suspenseful. Now, if Lamruil had planted the Tree of Souls and after a few YEARS had gone by, and the Elves were truly starting to come back in numbers, then there would have been a sense of literary climax and resolution, and I wouldn't have minded the Tree being able to give a sapling (after an extended time, as Steven reccommended over at the Keep). Of course, with the changes in EHM in 3E, the Tree of Souls as it was statted is useless, so it's currently the equivalent of any other tree.... So I shouldn't be worrying. There's a lot of trees in Evermeet and Cormanthyr, what's one more here and there? |
| Krash05-09-07, 06:54 AM | To me, it still seems to devalue the uniqueness of the Tree somewhat to have two of them. I agree. -- George Krashos |
| GothicDan05-09-07, 08:14 AM | Of course, to me, that also extends to the 'saplings.' Actually, I do like the idea of a growing, magical Elven tree that begets other magical trees, but like I said, I would have preferred a little bit of time between the original's planting and the sapling... Though I thought it had already been established as canon that Lamruil planted the Tree somewhere in 'the North'? I thought it was mentioned briefly... Realms of the Elves, perhaps? |
| Stigger05-09-07, 09:15 AM | Like you said, epic magic and 3.x's treatment of EHM pretty much rendered the tree obsolete and largely non-sensical... which I'm half glad and half sad about really. |
| Lord Karsus05-09-07, 09:27 AM | To me, it still seems to devalue the uniqueness of the Tree somewhat to have two of them. -I agree 100%. How are we supposed to explain the presence of the Tree of Souls in two different places (with Prince Lamruil and on Evermeet/Myth Drannor), then? Again, we have no reason to believe that Prince Lamruil didn't plant the Tree of Souls in his kingdom in the north, and, really, I interpret that quote below that he did plant it. Once the Tree of Souls is planted, it cannot be removed, of course. The only way to reconcile all this, in a way that resembles a sembalance of sense, it to say that there are two Tree of Souls (which I don't like, mind you). That is, unless Queen Amlauril was lying the entire time, and the plant she gave the Elven Crusade was not the Tree of Souls. But, that is not really "in-character" for her... Sure, the Seldarine -could- have given them more than one, or they -could- have made the tree so that it drops acorns or can give saplings as offshoots... But that kind of make's Lamruil's whole quest a bit less dramatic and suspenseful. -I never liked the idea of the Tree of Souls making "saplings". As much as it is an actual tree, it isn't. Thus, it shouldn't be able to exhibit such behavior- especially when Corellon Larethian went as far as besically saying, "There is only one of these, so use it wisely" to Starleaf. Though I thought it had already been established as canon that Lamruil planted the Tree somewhere in 'the North'? I thought it was mentioned briefly... Realms of the Elves, perhaps? -I don't recall anything in Realms of the Elves...But, Pg 488 of Evermeet: Island of Elves is written in the past-tense, meaning that it already happened. Many of them would find a new homeland, as had the desperate Gold Elves from another world whom Lamruil had surprised with a welcome and an offer of haven. Many of these newcomers would follow the restless Lamruil and wrest a new kingdom from a world of ice and solitude, as some of Evermeet's natives. |
| Mazaron05-09-07, 11:09 PM | ... WHAT? Bladesingers are elven wizard/fighters, not an organisation. That's not necessarily an obvious fact to someone who hasn't spent much time with the official material in quite a while (or anything new at any rate). It maybe that I took the idea and made them an organization years ago, or maybe they were an organization back in 2E days. I don't remember. |
| Mazaron05-09-07, 11:13 PM | [QUOTE=Lord Karsus;12322229]Fey'ri: Elven subrace that interbred with Demons long ago, and because of such, was sealed away in stasis. Coronal: The Elven term for "Great Speaker", and the leader of a large Elven settlement Tree of Souls: Magical tree artifact that contains the souls of the Elven High Magi who died during the casting of the Sundering. ****Interesting. The Tree of Souls sounds very Tolkienesque. -Might I suggest you peruse the articles and essays in Elves of Faerūn? -Basically, what happened it: They Fey'ri attacked Evermeet, and obtained a shard of the powerful Gatekeeper's Crystal. Sarya Dlardraegeth, the leader of the Fey'ri, then decided to attack the Elven settlement of Evereska. Evereska asked for assistance from Evermeet, because the city was relativley weak at the time, due to everything that went on in the Return of the Archwizards Trilogy. The army from Evermeet defeated the Fey'ri, and then gave chase, booting them from their own HQ in Myth Glaurach. When the Fey'ri retreated to Myth Drannor, the leader of the Elven Crusade, as it was called now, Saeveril Miritar decided to make and all-or-nothing move and eliminate the Fey'ri all together. The Crusade did so, and in the end, gained posession of Myth Drannor once again. **Very interesting and thanks. -Who wouldn't like giant flying butterflies helping them? :) **Naturally! The elves IMC came off rather Mimbari-like for those B5 fans out there. |
| XHereticX05-10-07, 06:12 PM | Speaking of elven nations, what is the current power status of the Star Elves? |
| Lord Karsus05-10-07, 06:36 PM | Speaking of elven nations, what is the current power status of the Star Elves? -Funny. Real funny...:rolleyes: |
| Krash05-10-07, 07:01 PM | Why the eye rolling? -- George Krashos |
| Lord Karsus05-10-07, 07:04 PM | Why the eye rolling? -- George Krashos -I was assuming that heretic was being facetious, hence the response. |
| XHereticX05-11-07, 09:35 PM | -I was assuming that heretic was being facetious, hence the response. Hmm, that wasen't what I intended originally. And yes I do realize the Star Elves are no longer a "power of Faerun" ;) |
| Lord Karsus05-12-07, 05:57 PM | Hmm, that wasen't what I intended originally. And yes I do realize the Star Elves are no longer a "power of Faerun" ;) -Ah, and here I thought you were being a wise-guy. -In that case, no the Star Elves really don't factor into many equations. Five thousand plus years ago, they were indeed a mighty power in the east, ruling from their seat of power in Yuirshanyaar. However, the Orcgate Wars cost them a lot, and so they retreated into the Sildeyuir. When they left for that demiplane, their society became very fragmented, with each "House" living in it's own isolated community. So, all and all, the Star Elves, like I said, don't have much influence anywhere. |
| XHereticX05-13-07, 05:04 PM | -Ah, and here I thought you were being a wise-guy. -In that case, no the Star Elves really don't factor into many equations. Five thousand plus years ago, they were indeed a mighty power in the east, ruling from their seat of power in Yuirshanyaar. However, the Orcgate Wars cost them a lot, and so they retreated into the Sildeyuir. When they left for that demiplane, their society became very fragmented, with each "House" living in it's own isolated community. So, all and all, the Star Elves, like I said, don't have much influence anywhere. They are coming back though, since the Nishruu invasion showed them how dangerous their isolation was. |
| Lord Karsus05-13-07, 07:30 PM | They are coming back though, since the Nishruu invasion showed them how dangerous their isolation was. -I believe that Unapproachable East mentioned that as a plot hook, but, as demonstrated by their continued rarity in current sourcebooks and novels, they have yet to start a mass exodus from the Sildeyuir. -Mind you, also, that the Nilshai have been sieging the Sildeyuir for centuries. |
| boards05-14-07, 04:57 AM | Sildeyuir is still going at the end of the Last Mythal series. |