Netheril & the Shades [Archive] - Wizards Community

Netheril & the Shades [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Aerostoth
11-20-07, 05:39 PM I like Netheril & the Shades. If anyone can find any info on Netheril or the Shades, then please post.

Here is a list of all the referances to Netheril & the Shades that I found:

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
Lost Empires of Faerun
Lords of Darkness
Netheril: Empire of Magic
How the Mighty are Fallen
A Grand History of the Realms
the "Netheril" trilogy novels
the "Return of the Archwizards" trilogy novels
The Realms of Shadow anthology
The Realms of the Arcane anthology
Anauroch: City of Shade
18DELTA
11-20-07, 11:19 PM Races of Faerun.

And the Empire of Shade adventure that just came out.

;)
Lord Karsus
11-20-07, 11:36 PM Netheril: Empire of Magic
How the Mighty are Fallen
A Grand History of the Realms
Old Sage
11-21-07, 06:43 AM See the "Netheril" trilogy of novels also. And the "Return of the Archwizards" trilogy. Realms of Shadow. And Realms of the Arcane also has at least one short story that deals with the fall of Netheril, although it is more of an observation of the events rather than a look at Karsus and how it all came about.
Aerostoth
11-21-07, 12:02 PM which of those are novels?
Stigger
11-21-07, 12:06 PM Generally, if you see "Realms of..." its an anthology of short stories.
Aerostoth
11-21-07, 12:11 PM ok.
Warning
11-24-07, 04:45 PM Are Shades as a whole suprieor to Drow? I know one outnumbers the other (actually maybe not since the Extinction of the Drow series). But I hear alot of these 2 calling other races "lessers". So if possible can this be used in comparison?
Stigger
11-24-07, 05:10 PM Depends on how you look at the word superior. For their environment, drow are for the most part on the top of the food chain. Take them out of that environment, and they're capable, but not as well suited as they were back home... same goes for the shades. There really isn't such a thing as 'the best', since there will always be something specialized to a specific environment that will be better at "whatever" than even the best of generalists.
Faraer
11-24-07, 05:12 PM Megalomaniac racial supremacist villains' evaluations of themselves: not reliable. The frame of reference of living beings being 'better' than each other is an evil one.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-24-07, 06:28 PM Megalomaniac racial supremacist villains' evaluations of themselves: not reliable. The frame of reference of living beings being 'better' than each other is an evil one.

Agreed!

And by the way, the number of true shades in the Realms is actually supposed to be very, very tiny. Most people who live in Thultanthar are just normal humans--only an elite minority are shades.
MarkusTay63
11-24-07, 08:53 PM There just seems to be something VERY WRONG with the idea of something called Shades living in the middle of a desert - it just doesn't seem natural. :rolleyes:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-24-07, 10:28 PM There just seems to be something VERY WRONG with the idea of something called Shades living in the middle of a desert - it just doesn't seem natural. :rolleyes:

*chuckles* Well, that's certainly one way of looking at things.:)
Lord Karsus
11-25-07, 12:11 AM There just seems to be something VERY WRONG with the idea of something called Shades living in the middle of a desert - it just doesn't seem natural. :rolleyes:

-Didn't think of it like that. ;)
Warning
11-28-07, 01:56 PM There just seems to be something VERY WRONG with the idea of something called Shades living in the middle of a desert - it just doesn't seem natural. :rolleyes:

Well if you think about it, the Shades would do quite well in the underdark , since from what I've read...it's quite....dark...down there. Shades work best in shadow...and from Paul Kemp's ShadowStorm...they did quite fine in open sunlight as well.
Lord Karsus
11-28-07, 04:31 PM Well if you think about it, the Shades would do quite well in the underdark , since from what I've read...it's quite....dark...down there.

-The problem with that is that the Shadovar don't traditionally come from the Underdark. The Drow, like the Shadovar, originally came from the surface world. When they were forced/fled to the Underdark, they grew very bitter about it. Of course, they did eventually grow accustomed to it. Now, if the Shadovar were forced underground, they'd be bitter about it now. Whether they ever accept it or not, who knows.

-Think about it like this. You're good at climbing and exploring. Climbing, spelunking, and all of those other things are things that you find very fun. Now, someone comes around, and tells you that because you're good at all of that, you had to live in a cave permanently. How would you feel?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-28-07, 05:28 PM And, as I mentioned before, most "Shadovar" are just ordinary humans, not actual shades.
Lord Karsus
11-28-07, 05:37 PM And, as I mentioned before, most "Shadovar" are just ordinary humans, not actual shades.

-Well, in his defense, he did say Shades. I was the one who substituted Shadovar.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-28-07, 05:55 PM -Well, in his defense, he did say Shades. I was the one who substituted Shadovar.

Understood. For my part, I see the Shades (who are, for the most part, an elite and/or ruling class in the floating City of Shade) as being very tied to their city and the people that they rule over, so it's hard for me to imagine them packing up and moving into the Underdark just because all that darkness would be convenient for them.

And of course, then there is the point you touched on--the Shades didn't come from the Underdark, and they also all started out as normal humans. Most humans simply wouldn't be comfortable living in the Underdark (there's more to the Underdark than just...darkness), and from what I've come to understand from the sourcebooks and novels, Shades haven't necessarily given up their human nature just because they've been infused with shadowstuff.
Zireael
11-29-07, 07:43 AM Aren't the Shades Shadovar and vice versa?
Warning
11-29-07, 11:21 AM And, as I mentioned before, most "Shadovar" are just ordinary humans, not actual shades.

Never said they were not.

-Think about it like this. You're good at climbing and exploring. Climbing, spelunking, and all of those other things are things that you find very fun. Now, someone comes around, and tells you that because you're good at all of that, you had to live in a cave permanently. How would you feel?
Karsus, I never said they would live down thier, I was implying if they were to do battle in the underdark, they would have just as much an advantage as the Drow if not more. I'm sure they did not enjoy fighting in the sunlight afternoon day, but they did it.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-29-07, 12:28 PM Aren't the Shades Shadovar and vice versa?

The Shades are Shadovar, but it doesn't work vice versa.

Shadovar, as I understand it, means "resident of the City of Shade"...most of whom are human.
Lord Karsus
11-29-07, 07:39 PM Aren't the Shades Shadovar and vice versa?

-A Shadovar is simply someone from the Shade Enclave. It's basically a nationality. Shades are a specific racial group in the Shadow Enclave that traded portions of their souls for "Shadowstuff".

Karsus, I never said they would live down thier, I was implying if they were to do battle in the underdark, they would have just as much an advantage as the Drow if not more. I'm sure they did not enjoy fighting in the sunlight afternoon day, but they did it.

-Gotcha. I read that, after seeing how you responded to Mark's point, that you figured the Shades would rather like living underground, due to the darkness and all that.
Aerostoth
01-27-08, 09:53 PM Wouldn't it make sense though to on rare occasions find a Shadovar scouting party in the Underdark? I mean the Underdark is a great home for the Shadovar if they can get a hold on an area. To the average surface enemy, an enemy in the Underdark is practically untrackable. They are in constant darkness, and can possibly use the tunnels as a transport system to find and unearth Netherese ruins.
Vulpes
01-28-08, 12:20 AM Wouldn't it make sense though to on rare occasions find a Shadovar scouting party in the Underdark? I mean the Underdark is a great home for the Shadovar if they can get a hold on an area. To the average surface enemy, an enemy in the Underdark is practically untrackable. They are in constant darkness, and can possibly use the tunnels as a transport system to find and unearth Netherese ruins.

I believe some book or another said the Shadovar were doing just that, sending parties into the Underdark to search for and loot Netherese ruins.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aerostoth 11-20-07, 05:39 PM	I like Netheril & the Shades. If anyone can find any info on Netheril or the Shades, then please post. Here is a list of all the referances to Netheril & the Shades that I found: Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Lost Empires of Faerun Lords of Darkness Netheril: Empire of Magic How the Mighty are Fallen A Grand History of the Realms the "Netheril" trilogy novels the "Return of the Archwizards" trilogy novels The Realms of Shadow anthology The Realms of the Arcane anthology Anauroch: City of Shade
18DELTA 11-20-07, 11:19 PM	Races of Faerun. And the Empire of Shade adventure that just came out. ;)
Lord Karsus 11-20-07, 11:36 PM	Netheril: Empire of Magic How the Mighty are Fallen A Grand History of the Realms
Old Sage 11-21-07, 06:43 AM	See the "Netheril" trilogy of novels also. And the "Return of the Archwizards" trilogy. Realms of Shadow. And Realms of the Arcane also has at least one short story that deals with the fall of Netheril, although it is more of an observation of the events rather than a look at Karsus and how it all came about.
Aerostoth 11-21-07, 12:02 PM	which of those are novels?
Stigger 11-21-07, 12:06 PM	Generally, if you see "Realms of..." its an anthology of short stories.
Aerostoth 11-21-07, 12:11 PM	ok.
Warning 11-24-07, 04:45 PM	Are Shades as a whole suprieor to Drow? I know one outnumbers the other (actually maybe not since the Extinction of the Drow series). But I hear alot of these 2 calling other races "lessers". So if possible can this be used in comparison?
Stigger 11-24-07, 05:10 PM	Depends on how you look at the word superior. For their environment, drow are for the most part on the top of the food chain. Take them out of that environment, and they're capable, but not as well suited as they were back home... same goes for the shades. There really isn't such a thing as 'the best', since there will always be something specialized to a specific environment that will be better at "whatever" than even the best of generalists.
Faraer 11-24-07, 05:12 PM	Megalomaniac racial supremacist villains' evaluations of themselves: not reliable. The frame of reference of living beings being 'better' than each other is an evil one.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-24-07, 06:28 PM	Megalomaniac racial supremacist villains' evaluations of themselves: not reliable. The frame of reference of living beings being 'better' than each other is an evil one. Agreed! And by the way, the number of true shades in the Realms is actually supposed to be very, very tiny. Most people who live in Thultanthar are just normal humans--only an elite minority are shades.
MarkusTay63 11-24-07, 08:53 PM	There just seems to be something VERY WRONG with the idea of something called Shades living in the middle of a desert - it just doesn't seem natural. :rolleyes:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-24-07, 10:28 PM	There just seems to be something VERY WRONG with the idea of something called Shades living in the middle of a desert - it just doesn't seem natural. :rolleyes: chuckles Well, that's certainly one way of looking at things.:)
Lord Karsus 11-25-07, 12:11 AM	There just seems to be something VERY WRONG with the idea of something called Shades living in the middle of a desert - it just doesn't seem natural. :rolleyes: -Didn't think of it like that. ;)
Warning 11-28-07, 01:56 PM	There just seems to be something VERY WRONG with the idea of something called Shades living in the middle of a desert - it just doesn't seem natural. :rolleyes: Well if you think about it, the Shades would do quite well in the underdark , since from what I've read...it's quite....dark...down there. Shades work best in shadow...and from Paul Kemp's ShadowStorm...they did quite fine in open sunlight as well.
Lord Karsus 11-28-07, 04:31 PM	Well if you think about it, the Shades would do quite well in the underdark , since from what I've read...it's quite....dark...down there. -The problem with that is that the Shadovar don't traditionally come from the Underdark. The Drow, like the Shadovar, originally came from the surface world. When they were forced/fled to the Underdark, they grew very bitter about it. Of course, they did eventually grow accustomed to it. Now, if the Shadovar were forced underground, they'd be bitter about it now. Whether they ever accept it or not, who knows. -Think about it like this. You're good at climbing and exploring. Climbing, spelunking, and all of those other things are things that you find very fun. Now, someone comes around, and tells you that because you're good at all of that, you had to live in a cave permanently. How would you feel?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-28-07, 05:28 PM	And, as I mentioned before, most "Shadovar" are just ordinary humans, not actual shades.
Lord Karsus 11-28-07, 05:37 PM	And, as I mentioned before, most "Shadovar" are just ordinary humans, not actual shades. -Well, in his defense, he did say Shades. I was the one who substituted Shadovar.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-28-07, 05:55 PM	-Well, in his defense, he did say Shades. I was the one who substituted Shadovar. Understood. For my part, I see the Shades (who are, for the most part, an elite and/or ruling class in the floating City of Shade) as being very tied to their city and the people that they rule over, so it's hard for me to imagine them packing up and moving into the Underdark just because all that darkness would be convenient for them. And of course, then there is the point you touched on--the Shades didn't come from the Underdark, and they also all started out as normal humans. Most humans simply wouldn't be comfortable living in the Underdark (there's more to the Underdark than just...darkness), and from what I've come to understand from the sourcebooks and novels, Shades haven't necessarily given up their human nature just because they've been infused with shadowstuff.
Zireael 11-29-07, 07:43 AM	Aren't the Shades Shadovar and vice versa?
Warning 11-29-07, 11:21 AM	And, as I mentioned before, most "Shadovar" are just ordinary humans, not actual shades. Never said they were not. -Think about it like this. You're good at climbing and exploring. Climbing, spelunking, and all of those other things are things that you find very fun. Now, someone comes around, and tells you that because you're good at all of that, you had to live in a cave permanently. How would you feel? Karsus, I never said they would live down thier, I was implying if they were to do battle in the underdark, they would have just as much an advantage as the Drow if not more. I'm sure they did not enjoy fighting in the sunlight afternoon day, but they did it.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-29-07, 12:28 PM	Aren't the Shades Shadovar and vice versa? The Shades are Shadovar, but it doesn't work vice versa. Shadovar, as I understand it, means "resident of the City of Shade"...most of whom are human.
Lord Karsus 11-29-07, 07:39 PM	Aren't the Shades Shadovar and vice versa? -A Shadovar is simply someone from the Shade Enclave. It's basically a nationality. Shades are a specific racial group in the Shadow Enclave that traded portions of their souls for "Shadowstuff". Karsus, I never said they would live down thier, I was implying if they were to do battle in the underdark, they would have just as much an advantage as the Drow if not more. I'm sure they did not enjoy fighting in the sunlight afternoon day, but they did it. -Gotcha. I read that, after seeing how you responded to Mark's point, that you figured the Shades would rather like living underground, due to the darkness and all that.
Aerostoth 01-27-08, 09:53 PM	Wouldn't it make sense though to on rare occasions find a Shadovar scouting party in the Underdark? I mean the Underdark is a great home for the Shadovar if they can get a hold on an area. To the average surface enemy, an enemy in the Underdark is practically untrackable. They are in constant darkness, and can possibly use the tunnels as a transport system to find and unearth Netherese ruins.
Vulpes 01-28-08, 12:20 AM	Wouldn't it make sense though to on rare occasions find a Shadovar scouting party in the Underdark? I mean the Underdark is a great home for the Shadovar if they can get a hold on an area. To the average surface enemy, an enemy in the Underdark is practically untrackable. They are in constant darkness, and can possibly use the tunnels as a transport system to find and unearth Netherese ruins. I believe some book or another said the Shadovar were doing just that, sending parties into the Underdark to search for and loot Netherese ruins.