old npc stats? [Archive] - Wizards Community

old npc stats? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Daydreamer
04-17-07, 11:53 PM is Karsus statted anywhere in 3rd edition?
i know from that adventure 'how the mighty are fallen' in 2nd that he can cast 12th level magic, which idk if it even exists in 3rd.

Or are any of the great wizards fromt he past statted?
Old Sage
04-18-07, 12:05 AM Karsus has not been officially provided with 3e stats.

Some of the *great wizards* have been stat'd in various sources through both 2e and 3e. Are there any you're looking for in particular?
Daydreamer
04-18-07, 12:36 AM NOt especially i was thinking of running a campaign that focused on one of these old figures-and from that trying to get something going into the planes.
So i was looking for concrete resources on these individuals.
Old Sage
04-18-07, 01:04 AM Well, you may wish to search through the short listings of NPC stats from 1e/2e as well as some from 3e FR sources, which have been compiled by Kuje.

1e/2e:- http://home.rochester.rr.com/kuje/npcs.xls

3e:- http://home.rochester.rr.com/kuje/npcs%203e.xls
The Simbul
04-18-07, 10:28 PM Personally, I would cast him as

Karsus, CN male Netherese human lich sorcerer 1/wizard 20/ultimate magus 10/archmage 5/Netherese arcanist 5

In consistency with his original source, at the time of his demise, just before casting his avatar spell. The sorcerer level and progression into ultimate magus both makes him less of a clone of Ioulaum, and explains his adeptness for the Art at an (extremely) early age. As far as his ability scores are concerned, and with the assumption that he used magic to boost them, I would (ruling generously) place his ability scores at level 1 as:
STR 18, DEX 13, CON 18, INT 18, WIS 18, CHA 15

Arguably, they could start out lower, and depending on what rules precedent you follow he may or may not receive his full allotment of level based ability score adjustment points, given that so many Faerūnian NPCs were not given their full due in level-based ability score increases, despite the 2E->3E conversion manual's directions to do so. However at the bare minimum he should have his final ability scores equal to those he is presented with in the AD&D sources, in addition to non-permanent boosts from magic items to increase them further.

Among other things, given his ego, I would equip him with Karsus' sash of splendor and supremacy (an improvised rename of a belt of magnificence +6)

Ultimage Magus: Complete Mage
Netherese Arcanist: Player's Guide to Faerūn
Belt of Magnificence: Miniature's Handbook
BrennonGoldeye
04-18-07, 10:41 PM Who knew it? Bossman might be blooded. :D
Lord Karsus
04-21-07, 08:18 PM Who knew it? Bossman might be blooded. :D

-I don't know what that means, but is that a good thing?

Karsus, CN male Netherese human lich sorcerer 1/wizard 20/ultimate magus 10/archmage 5/Netherese arcanist 5

-Sounds good, except I never became a Lich. My long life was attributed to life-enhancing spells, potions, and the like.

However at the bare minimum he should have his final ability scores equal to those he is presented with in the AD&D sources, in addition to non-permanent boosts from magic items to increase them further.

-And, those final scores were:

Str 19; Dex 13; Con 19; Int 22; Wis 19; Cha 15[/QUOTE]
Renvale999
04-26-07, 03:13 PM I think he would be just straight wizard/netherese archansist...I believe that wizards in ancient Netheril naturally learned the abilities of Archmage and didn't need to take the class for it...but that's just me.

And yes LK, you're right, you never became a lich...But don't tell us it never crossed your mind!!!

LOL j/k
Lord Karsus
04-27-07, 12:25 AM And yes LK, you're right, you never became a lich...But don't tell us it never crossed your mind!!!

-It never crossed this 1/3 of Karsus' sentience. :P
Renvale999
04-27-07, 09:50 AM -It never crossed this 1/3 of Karsus' sentience. :P

LOL.

Anyway do you agree with me that the Netherese got their archmage abilities without taking the prestige class? Just want to get your opinion on the matter.
Karsus the Mad
04-27-07, 11:39 AM I would go with his second version of stats from Faiths and Avatar (or which ever that 2e book was) which are Str 18, Dex 15, Con 19, Int 22, Wis 19, Cha 23
I'd also be strict on his 1st level stats, reducing all by -5, so they'd be Str 13, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 14, Cha 18, giving a slightly more reasonable ability set for a 1st level character. +10 to Int from levels, +5 to all from wish (or similar), +3 Int, Wis, Cha from age bonuses, and an item that either boosted both Int and Cha, or two seperate items. Both would be epic giving a +6 or greater (I have an archyre that's +12).
End result would be Str 18, Dex 15, Con 19, Int 35, Wis 21, Cha 26, not including stat buffing items. I'd go the same way with his levels as the Simbul, but would take him into epic ultimate magus.
Male Netherese sorcerer 5/ wizard 6/ ultimate magus 20/ archmage 5/ Netherese arcanist 5
Depending on how one rules the progression past 10 (I referenced one possible progression on the Epic boards for this), it could lead to Sorcerer CL 29th, choose spells as CL 22nd
Wizard CL 41st, choose spells as CL 30th.
Renvale999
04-27-07, 12:37 PM What in the Nine Hell's is with this whole making him a sorcerer?? Karsus would have never gotten to the power he was at if he did not concentrate in his wizardly studies...period. I don't know where I read it, but somewhere it says that the wizards of Netheril looked down upon sorcerers and bards, because it wasn't "real magic". I don't know, I just see Karsus doing anything but studying his spell-book...
Karsus the Mad
04-27-07, 12:44 PM What in the Nine Hell's is with this whole making him a sorcerer?? Karsus would have never gotten to the power he was at if he did not concentrate in his wizardly studies...period. I don't know where I read it, but somewhere it says that the wizards of Netheril looked down upon sorcerers and bards, because it wasn't "real magic". I don't know, I just see Karsus doing anything but studying his spell-book...
Because at the age of 2, he instinctively cast a cantrip, and learned spells as if he inherently always knew them. Sounds like a sorcerer to me:) After being sent to the clergy of Mystryl for teaching, he would have began gaining levels in the more traditional wizard. It's only reasonable for someone of Karsus's power mongering that he'd continue both paths, thus the reason I added ultimate magus. Archmage is a given, as is Netherese arcanist.
Renvale999
04-27-07, 12:47 PM Because at the age of 2, he instinctively cast a cantrip, and learned spells as if he inherently always knew them. Sounds like a sorcerer to me:) After being sent to the clergy of Mystryl for teaching, he would have began gaining levels in the more traditional wizard. It's only reasonable for someone of Karsus's power mongering that he'd continue both paths, thus the reason I added ultimate magus. Archmage is a given, as is Netherese arcanist.

Don't agree there, but that's just me, sounds more like a very gifted wizard then a sorcerer.

But I can see using the sorcerer/wizard/ultimate magus combo to beat the ever living crap out of PC's that are dumb enough to challenge him...Being able to cast every spell in the PHB(and then some) 12 to 13 times....that would be a nasty battle no matter what level you are.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daydreamer 04-17-07, 11:53 PM	is Karsus statted anywhere in 3rd edition? i know from that adventure 'how the mighty are fallen' in 2nd that he can cast 12th level magic, which idk if it even exists in 3rd. Or are any of the great wizards fromt he past statted?
Old Sage 04-18-07, 12:05 AM	Karsus has not been officially provided with 3e stats. Some of the great wizards have been stat'd in various sources through both 2e and 3e. Are there any you're looking for in particular?
Daydreamer 04-18-07, 12:36 AM	NOt especially i was thinking of running a campaign that focused on one of these old figures-and from that trying to get something going into the planes. So i was looking for concrete resources on these individuals.
Old Sage 04-18-07, 01:04 AM	Well, you may wish to search through the short listings of NPC stats from 1e/2e as well as some from 3e FR sources, which have been compiled by Kuje. 1e/2e:- http://home.rochester.rr.com/kuje/npcs.xls 3e:- http://home.rochester.rr.com/kuje/npcs%203e.xls
The Simbul 04-18-07, 10:28 PM	Personally, I would cast him as Karsus, CN male Netherese human lich sorcerer 1/wizard 20/ultimate magus 10/archmage 5/Netherese arcanist 5 In consistency with his original source, at the time of his demise, just before casting his avatar spell. The sorcerer level and progression into ultimate magus both makes him less of a clone of Ioulaum, and explains his adeptness for the Art at an (extremely) early age. As far as his ability scores are concerned, and with the assumption that he used magic to boost them, I would (ruling generously) place his ability scores at level 1 as: STR 18, DEX 13, CON 18, INT 18, WIS 18, CHA 15 Arguably, they could start out lower, and depending on what rules precedent you follow he may or may not receive his full allotment of level based ability score adjustment points, given that so many Faerūnian NPCs were not given their full due in level-based ability score increases, despite the 2E->3E conversion manual's directions to do so. However at the bare minimum he should have his final ability scores equal to those he is presented with in the AD&D sources, in addition to non-permanent boosts from magic items to increase them further. Among other things, given his ego, I would equip him with Karsus' sash of splendor and supremacy (an improvised rename of a belt of magnificence +6) Ultimage Magus: Complete Mage Netherese Arcanist: Player's Guide to Faerūn Belt of Magnificence: Miniature's Handbook
BrennonGoldeye 04-18-07, 10:41 PM	Who knew it? Bossman might be blooded. :D
Lord Karsus 04-21-07, 08:18 PM	Who knew it? Bossman might be blooded. :D -I don't know what that means, but is that a good thing? Karsus, CN male Netherese human lich sorcerer 1/wizard 20/ultimate magus 10/archmage 5/Netherese arcanist 5 -Sounds good, except I never became a Lich. My long life was attributed to life-enhancing spells, potions, and the like. However at the bare minimum he should have his final ability scores equal to those he is presented with in the AD&D sources, in addition to non-permanent boosts from magic items to increase them further. -And, those final scores were: Str 19; Dex 13; Con 19; Int 22; Wis 19; Cha 15[/QUOTE]
Renvale999 04-26-07, 03:13 PM	I think he would be just straight wizard/netherese archansist...I believe that wizards in ancient Netheril naturally learned the abilities of Archmage and didn't need to take the class for it...but that's just me. And yes LK, you're right, you never became a lich...But don't tell us it never crossed your mind!!! LOL j/k
Lord Karsus 04-27-07, 12:25 AM	And yes LK, you're right, you never became a lich...But don't tell us it never crossed your mind!!! -It never crossed this 1/3 of Karsus' sentience. :P
Renvale999 04-27-07, 09:50 AM	-It never crossed this 1/3 of Karsus' sentience. :P LOL. Anyway do you agree with me that the Netherese got their archmage abilities without taking the prestige class? Just want to get your opinion on the matter.
Karsus the Mad 04-27-07, 11:39 AM	I would go with his second version of stats from Faiths and Avatar (or which ever that 2e book was) which are Str 18, Dex 15, Con 19, Int 22, Wis 19, Cha 23 I'd also be strict on his 1st level stats, reducing all by -5, so they'd be Str 13, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 14, Cha 18, giving a slightly more reasonable ability set for a 1st level character. +10 to Int from levels, +5 to all from wish (or similar), +3 Int, Wis, Cha from age bonuses, and an item that either boosted both Int and Cha, or two seperate items. Both would be epic giving a +6 or greater (I have an archyre that's +12). End result would be Str 18, Dex 15, Con 19, Int 35, Wis 21, Cha 26, not including stat buffing items. I'd go the same way with his levels as the Simbul, but would take him into epic ultimate magus. Male Netherese sorcerer 5/ wizard 6/ ultimate magus 20/ archmage 5/ Netherese arcanist 5 Depending on how one rules the progression past 10 (I referenced one possible progression on the Epic boards for this), it could lead to Sorcerer CL 29th, choose spells as CL 22nd Wizard CL 41st, choose spells as CL 30th.
Renvale999 04-27-07, 12:37 PM	What in the Nine Hell's is with this whole making him a sorcerer?? Karsus would have never gotten to the power he was at if he did not concentrate in his wizardly studies...period. I don't know where I read it, but somewhere it says that the wizards of Netheril looked down upon sorcerers and bards, because it wasn't "real magic". I don't know, I just see Karsus doing anything but studying his spell-book...
Karsus the Mad 04-27-07, 12:44 PM	What in the Nine Hell's is with this whole making him a sorcerer?? Karsus would have never gotten to the power he was at if he did not concentrate in his wizardly studies...period. I don't know where I read it, but somewhere it says that the wizards of Netheril looked down upon sorcerers and bards, because it wasn't "real magic". I don't know, I just see Karsus doing anything but studying his spell-book... Because at the age of 2, he instinctively cast a cantrip, and learned spells as if he inherently always knew them. Sounds like a sorcerer to me:) After being sent to the clergy of Mystryl for teaching, he would have began gaining levels in the more traditional wizard. It's only reasonable for someone of Karsus's power mongering that he'd continue both paths, thus the reason I added ultimate magus. Archmage is a given, as is Netherese arcanist.
Renvale999 04-27-07, 12:47 PM	Because at the age of 2, he instinctively cast a cantrip, and learned spells as if he inherently always knew them. Sounds like a sorcerer to me:) After being sent to the clergy of Mystryl for teaching, he would have began gaining levels in the more traditional wizard. It's only reasonable for someone of Karsus's power mongering that he'd continue both paths, thus the reason I added ultimate magus. Archmage is a given, as is Netherese arcanist. Don't agree there, but that's just me, sounds more like a very gifted wizard then a sorcerer. But I can see using the sorcerer/wizard/ultimate magus combo to beat the ever living crap out of PC's that are dumb enough to challenge him...Being able to cast every spell in the PHB(and then some) 12 to 13 times....that would be a nasty battle no matter what level you are.