Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Threefists 02-02-08, 08:05 AM	Now, I've created this thread to ask for help so I don't derail the Orcx10 thread. I intend to create a Orc (Mountain subtype) from the Silver Marshes/The North, who migrated to Thesk as little more than a child. Now, I need help from the FR Fiends here on the likes, dislikes and so forth of a Orc, since I've almost always played Half-Orcs in the Forgotten Realms setting and the only Orcs I've played have been in a few Eberron Games (very much Conan, less Obould in character nature). Thus I'm asking if my 'take' on a Theskian Orc, or a Orc that has spent considerable time in Thesk, are 'canon' for Forgotten Realms or are too heavily influenced by World of Warcraft and Eberron! Relations with other R aces:Obviously any Orc worthy of his tusks is not going to lift a finger to help a Elf unless A) he's getting paid bucketloads or B) his commanding officer tells him to do so. Other races, ehn, spending 5-7 years in Thesk would mellow out a 'young' Orc rather quickly, especially given the abuse young Thokk would have recieved running from the Silver Marshes to Thesk! Being part of the society, especially a part of the Town Watch, would do wonders to tone down the natural agression of the Mountain Orc, though not tame it completely, and having to skirt the Anauroch Desert, then sneak through the Western Heartlands, Cormyr, the Daelands, the Vast, Impiltur and then the Great Dale to get to safe haven would have exposed the young Orc to a great many cultures, few of them as friendly to Orc-kind as the Theskians. Elves: As stated above, not gonna lift a finger unless A) paid very well or B) ordered by a superiour officer to do so. In the case of Thokk, my character, he doesn't quite buy into the mindless war-frenzy Grummush dictates, but at the same point any Orc Tribe will have had at least some encounters with Elves. Dwarves: Respect for their marital prowess and their skill with mining and crafting skills, but again, like the Elves, would likely harbour a great deal of racial enmity to them. Still, I figure Thokk would be more inclined to buy a drink for a Dwarf than a Elf.... Humans: Respect and genuine friendship. Theskians are mostly Human, after all, and it's one of the few countries where Orcs can actually make a life for themselves as other than raiding tribes or slave-soldiers. Half-Orcs: As Humans, but they're 'superiour' because of the Orc blood in their veins. Except for the whiny ones. Half-Elves: Scorn. Lots and lots of scorn. Still they're filthy blood does have some Human in it, so Thokk's not going to be 'stab first ask questions second' with them, even the Half-Drow ones.... Gnomes: Can't really see him having had much contact with Gnomes, although again racial hatreds and the twisted stories the tribe's adepts and clerics would have told the young Orcs would colour Thokk's views on the Gnomes. Small also equals weak, so would not have a very high opinion of any Gnome he met, at least at first/ Halflings: As Gnomes. Weaponry/Armor/Misc gear: What weapons would a Mountain Orc be most familiar with, but contrasted with what a militia soldier (albiet a Fighter!) would be equipped with? Would a Mountain Orc prefer to use a Axe, the staple weapon of his people, or a sword and shield would be his (1st level) weapons as a trained guard of the Militia? A Orc trying to cross hostile territory, and likely one not a adult, would have done so on foot, skulking through the night and paying/stowing away on ships, wagons and the like to get further to his destination. I see him favouring light armor despite his ability to wear Heavy Armor as a result of that long, overland trek. Masterwork Chain Shirt and Dastana (shield-Bracers), leaving both hands free and the wearer able to move quickly. Likewise, gear would be lightweight and compact, easily replaceable and nondescript so as to avoid undue attention. Multi-Classing: Apologies if this treads on the Optimization Boards' toes, but starting Class is going to be Fighter, thus I'll have Feats galore but skill points are gonna be tight, especially with the Int penalty. I see Fighter/Rogue/Shou Disciple as the 'best' way to go, flavour-wise, but at the same point staying a full Fighter (ie full 20 level) means I can focus on just being the Party Muscle and leave the thinking to others (clear, rational thought not necessarily being a Orc's strong suit...although if freakin' Drow can wander the surface of the world and be pure Win ((Salvatore-Sama, I love your work but Drizzt just....enrages me on a level so primal it takes a dedicated Biblophile like me weeks to read those particular novels of yours...Loved the Demon Dactyl books, however)) there's no reason a Orc can't manage to subliminate his childhood teachings and likewise wander the lands as a outcast anti-hero as well!)
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 04:20 PM	-Alignment wise, they'd probably be Neutral, or even Lawful.
Threefists 02-02-08, 09:54 PM	Yes, that was my thought: LN or even just N....Good would be a fair stretch of believeability, although it's not to say that it's not possible as Thokk and the party travel onwards that he might slip towards respect for all things, not just brute strength....
Threefists 02-04-08, 08:21 AM	:bump: please help me, the game is due to start next week (5 days, 11 hours and 35 minutes from the very moment of this posting, to be precises!) and I'd like to get my FR Orc as kosher as possible, given that for the most part, as stated above, my Half-Orcs are very Human-orientated and my Orcs are almost exclusively Eberron, hence that 'mindset' won't really hold water in a Forgotten Realms campaign. Any advice you can give would be most welcome!
Lord Karsus 02-04-08, 11:57 AM	-Orcs are living pork, and as such, cannot be kosher. ;) Would a Mountain Orc prefer to use a Axe, the staple weapon of his people, or a sword and shield would be his (1st level) weapons as a trained guard of the Militia? -I'd say either or. Whoever trained said Orcs isn't stupid, and undoubtedly knows about an Orcs' strength, and the fact that axes deal massive amounts of damage. The more 'cannon fodder' troops are more likely to use axes, while the more refined types probably would use swords and shields.
Cain_Northson 02-05-08, 03:49 AM	I take it your chain shirt is the Masterwork w/Armor Spikes from the 'Thesk Starting Region' package, found on page 27 of the Player's Guide to Faerun? Nice choice, especially for a low-level Fighter. That leaves you with 150 gold, right? Dastana (25 gold), as you mentioned before to get a shield bonus and leave your arms free, a Sling (0 gold) and 20 bullets (2 silver) you've got armor spikes for grappling or if/when your arms are unavailable and for the 'obvious' Militia gear, a Light Wooden Shield (3 gold), Longsword (15 gold) and a Truncheon (2 gold) for non-lethal damage (something Orcs aren't exactly known for dishing out in the heat of combat!). Out of your 150, that's 45 gold and 2 silver spent, leaving you 104 gold and 8 silver to spend on non-combat gear. With the exception of the Masterwork Chain Shirt w/Armor Spikes and Dastana, everything there is (relatively) cheap and easily replaceable, just like most gear that a militia would possess would be. I really don't see any real problems with your views on interacting with the other races, although the Dwarven race at large is more likely going to start a brawl with you than let you buy them a bear. Stubborn little bastards that they are. If you see a Elf dangling by his fingers over a pit or something, remember to fight the urge to stomp on his fingers while dancing with glee. You're partially tamed your hatreds, after all. Bollocks to the Shou Disciple. Go Reaping Mauler and really dish out the hurt. Superiour Unarmed Strike should be on your feat list if you've any despire to really make the most of your Orc's brute strength.
MarkusTay63 02-05-08, 11:20 PM	Can I ask you why you needed to have him from the Silver Marches, rather thern just say he is from Thesk, and the son of one of the original Zhentish warriors that fought the Horde? It just seems to convolute things a bit much. :confused:
Threefists 02-06-08, 04:05 AM	Well, as far as I'm aware, the Eastern Part of Faerun is mostly inhabited by Gray Orcs, rather than Mountain Orcs, although you do raise a interesting point, Markus! ((I was always under the impression that the Zhents Orc were all of the Gray sub-species.)) The other reason is that Gray Orcs tend to be highly religious, a facet I'm not really comfortable with IRL as well as in a game where encounters with 'religious enemies' aka Elves, Dwarves and so on are supposed to be peaceful (relatively) encounters, as opposed to dealing with the obligatory bandits/invading mosters/demon invasion/etc. A Gray Orc strikes me as a 'God tells me to kill everything not of my race' mentality (apologies for the use of term, but it's the most apt!), rather than being able to think for itself. It's Religious Dogma turned in on itself to the point of almost self-destructing. A Mountain Orc seems to be more 'Eh, it's in my way. Intimidate it or Kill it or let the talky Human sort it out.' kinda mindset. The Lazy Jock mindset. Coming from the Silver Marches does add some headaches (Illuskan instead of Damaran, and with my Int Penalty, spending 2 ranks to get Speak Language (Damaran) is gonna bite!), but you do raise valid points. I'll put my head together with the DM and we'll wrangle over it for a while. Other than that, can you see any flaws with what's I've said? Any advice? Very glad that someone came along with something constructive at this stage of the game.
MarkusTay63 02-06-08, 01:39 PM	The Orcs of Thesk have now been operating peacably in the area for over 15 years now, and are even considered local heroes. (:P LK) Assume their numbers have swelled from the intial 1000 sent by the Keep, do to other local Orcs joining them, and the fact that Orcs age at a rate 1½ times that of humans. This means an entire Orcish generation has already reached adulthood, and is most likely a mix of all of the subraces. The Dwarves of the Earthfast Range (which actually includes the Earthspurs) have pretty much declared a 'holy war' against the Mountain Orcs of the at region (Vastar Orcs). The Dwarves of Earthfast participated in the Crusade alongside the Zhentish Orcs, so they gained a begrudging respect for them, and will not kill them on sight. It stands to reason then, that in the last decade and a half, MANY Orcs have migrated to Thesk in order to avoid being slaughtered. These would be the standard Mountain Orcs, which would have mixed with groups of Eastern Gray Orcs as they migrated. I'm not sure how close to canon you're DM likes to stick, but I would also assume that the Ondonti - the Peaceful farming Orcs of the Tortured Lands (north of The Ride) - have heard about the Orcs in Thesk, and wishing to build a better life away from Zhentil Keep (which enslaves them), have also been slowing drifting east. Add to that the fact that some Black and Red Orcs (Thay) escape from their masters during all the battles Thay has with it's neighbors, and I think you would have your pick of which sub-race to use in Thesk. All of that is backed-up by the info under the Orcs and Half-orcs heading in the the Thesk section of UE, where it says hundreds of Orcs from elsewhere have been joining the 'Free' Orcs of Thesk. If your DM wishes, it is entirely possible that a new Orcish town has come into being somewhere in Thesk. Before the Tuigan War, betwen Phsant and Phent, there was a small town called Inkar which was abandoned because of the approaching Horde - it would make an ideal location for this new Orcish town. Incomplete Map of Thesk (http://markustay.deviantart.com/art/Thesk-Undetailed-74086266) I've added Inkar into my Thesk Map, which I've also worked a little bit more on. This is FAR from complete, however, and a great deal of the roads and other locales are still missing.
Lord Karsus 02-06-08, 02:10 PM	The Orcs of Thesk have now been operating peacably in the area for over 15 years now, and are even considered local heroes. (:P LK) -Hey, Gollum is the hero of Lord of the Rings, so...
MarkusTay63 02-06-08, 10:55 PM	Actually, my son and I were discussing this very thing last night, and we came to the conclusion that the Lava was the REAL hero - it was the only thing that COULD destroy the ring. ;)
Lord Karsus 02-07-08, 12:16 AM	Actually, my son and I were discussing this very thing last night, and we came to the conclusion that the Lava was the REAL hero - it was the only thing that COULD destroy the ring. ;) -If you want to get technical, lava would be the hero (for destroying the One Ring), gravity (for causing Gollum to fall) would be the hero, heat (for causing the lava to be hot). -Physics...Physics is the true hero.
The_Shaman 02-07-08, 08:52 AM	When your powers combine, I am Captain Physics. Go, Physics! I admit, it has a nice ring to it ;)
Threefists 02-07-08, 09:15 AM	I'm not sure how close to canon you're DM likes to stick, but I would also assume that the Ondonti - the Peaceful farming Orcs of the Tortured Lands (north of The Ride) - have heard about the Orcs in Thesk, and wishing to build a better life away from Zhentil Keep (which enslaves them), have also been slowing drifting east. Add to that the fact that some Black and Red Orcs (Thay) escape from their masters during all the battles Thay has with it's neighbors, and I think you would have your pick of which sub-race to use in Thesk. All of that is backed-up by the info under the Orcs and Half-orcs heading in the the Thesk section of UE, where it says hundreds of Orcs from elsewhere have been joining the 'Free' Orcs of Thesk. This Ondonti you speak of...where can I learn more? Must admit, most FR adventures I've been involved with generally left the eastern part of Faerun as quickly as possible towards more familiar regions (IE places where the DM had working maps already made up by WotC and such-like) On a related note, the DM was more than happy to have my Orc Fighter as a 'second generation' of the Zhentish troops, and while I'd like to have a 'peaceful' Orc to help with the inevitable encounter with 'good' NPCs taking issue of my race (nominally with a weapon or spell!), playing a 'kick it in the face till it talks!' Orc still appeals to my inner Full BAB voice.
Lord Karsus 02-07-08, 03:58 PM	This Ondonti you speak of...where can I learn more? -The 2e books dealing with the North. Offhand, I can't think of any specific names or books.
Threefists 02-07-08, 06:28 PM	2e....no wonder I never heard of it. What few 2e campaigns I was a part of were almost always homebrew or Dragonlance, and my total collection of manuals was the 1st 2e Monster Manual (we shared all the manuals in that group) Well, thus far, does this 'incarnation' hold it's water in your guys eyes. 2nd Generation Zhent Orc Relations: Elves: As stated above, not gonna lift a finger unless A) paid very well or B) ordered by a superiour officer to do so. In the case of Thokk, my character, he doesn't quite buy into the mindless war-frenzy Grummush dictates, but at the same point the hatred between the two races has been pretty much the one constant in either sides lives for generations. Dwarves: Respect for their marital prowess and their skill with mining and crafting skills, but again, like the Elves, would likely harbour a great deal of racial enmity to them. Still, I figure Thokk would be more inclined to buy a drink for a Dwarf than a Elf....and of course Dwarves, being as they put so much emphasis on family ties, would be slightly more inclined to not crack Thokk's head open if they come from Earthfast. Humans: Respect and genuine friendship. Theskians are mostly Human, after all, and it's one of the few countries where Orcs can actually make a life for themselves as other than raiding tribes or slave-soldiers. I picture Thokk becoming addicted to the vices of Human civilisation (rich foods, comfortable clothing, pipe-weed, perhaps even frequent bathing!) Half-Orcs: As Humans, but they're 'superiour' because of the Orc blood in their veins. Except for the whiny ones. They need to be reminded of the 'noble' blood in their veins. Half-Elves: Scorn. Lots and lots of scorn. Still their filthy blood does have some Human in it, so Thokk's not going to be 'stab first ask questions second' with them, even the Half-Drow ones.... Gnomes: Can't really see him having had much contact with Gnomes, although again racial hatreds and the twisted stories the tribe's adepts and clerics would have told the young Orcs would colour Thokk's views on the Gnomes. Small also equals weak, so would not have a very high opinion of any Gnome he met, at least at first. I'll bet good money Thokk will get mugged at least once by a Illusionist/Rogue Gnome while entranced by a Illusion. At least once. Halflings: As Gnomes. ((Eventually Fighter/Rogue/Reaping Mauler. Seems to fit the 'style' of a Orcish soldier. Also some handy abilities for bringing prisoners in alive and 'relatively' unharmed.)) Starting gear is Masterwork Chain Shirt w/Armor Spikes, Longsword, Dastana, Heavy Crossbow, 20 bolts and misc gear. Starting position in life is low-ranking member of Militia, ie wanders around as escort to rest of party until they get sent off someplace and he is sent off with them to represent Phent.
Lord Karsus 02-07-08, 07:07 PM	-At a quick glance, and there doesn't seem to be anything grossly incorrect, or anything I'd really oppose.
MarkusTay63 02-08-08, 01:06 AM	The Ondonti originally appeared in the Ruins of Zhentil Keep boxed set. Eric Boyd and Tom Costa took the time to update many of 2e's 'monsters' to 3e, and you can find their labor of love HERE. (http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/monsters.html) Just download those two volumes, the Ondonti are in one of them.
Threefists 02-10-08, 07:55 AM	Well, I'd like to thank everyone for their help with this, and especially Karsus and Markus for all their input! Thokk, Mountain Orc Soldier of Phent, lives and wasn't laughed out the door by the rest of the party. *deep bow* Thank you!
MarkusTay63 02-12-08, 03:51 PM	Don't forget to let your DM know about the Thesk Map (http://markustay.deviantart.com/art/Thesk-WIP-74086266) - all it needs now is a couple of trails and it's finished. If anyone else notices anything missing or mispelled, let me know. Cheers --- Mark