Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord Karsus 07-31-07, 12:43 AM	-I've been tossing ideas around now for a while, and this is what I am planning to use in Elves of Faerūn, regardless of what A Grand History of the Realms says (or lack thereof) on the matter. -We all know about how Baker totally messed up with the Tree of Souls in the Last Mystal Trilogy. Here is my way of rectifying things. Imput is needed, and appreciated. -At some point, Queen Amlauril was bestowed a Tree-Gem by Corellon Larethian, and the rest of the Seldarine. What is a Tree-Gem, you might ask? From the information I have compiled, a Tree-Gem is simply a seed that is created by (apparently) divine individuals. The seed eventually sprouts, and a tree grows from it. These trees are usually white, with blue-green, "crystaline" leaves. They also seem to hold evil at bay, warding off creatures from the Lower Planes. See the White Tree of Damara, and even the Tree of Gondor. -Now, after recieving this Tree-Gem, Queen Amlauril planted it. It began to grow, and eventually became a fully-fledged "White Tree"- very similar to what the Tree of Souls would become after being planted, but not exactly it. -As we all know, Queen Amlauril gave the Tree of Souls to her son Lamruil, to found his own Elven kingdom in Faerūn's north. Is it possible that Queen Amlauril, keeping her giving the actual Tree of Souls to her son a secret, mislead everyone by giving the Elven Crusade a juvenile sapling from the Tree-Seed she planted earlier, claiming that this sapling was the actual Tree of Souls? -The Tree of Souls never was able to ward off creatures from the Lower Planes, as demonstrated in the LMT. Trees grown from Tree-Gems, such as the White Tree of Damara, are known to exhibit this quality. The Tree of Souls shouldn't be able to create seeds, either- that kind of would defeat the entire purpose of what the Tree of Souls is. "White Trees" are known to reproduce, creating Tree-Gems. -So...Thoughts?
dragonheart 08-01-07, 03:53 PM	Sounds like a good way around this little problem mind if I steal it?
Lord Karsus 08-01-07, 08:06 PM	-Sure, go right ahead.
danielmayer 08-08-07, 04:43 AM	Nice idea. Should work imho. The only thing "inconsistent" may be that Aumaril would have lied to Seiveril in LMT. I don't think she would have done this considering the protections they had when talking. But that would only be a "minor" inconsistency while the whole ToS-thing would get fixed up. :ayyyy!: approved :ayyyy!:
Krash 08-08-07, 06:10 AM	Why can't a planted Tree of Souls have provided two "acorns" which are nurtured into saplings? -- George Krashos
Lord Karsus 08-08-07, 09:16 PM	Why can't a planted Tree of Souls have provided two "acorns" which are nurtured into saplings? -- George Krashos -Assuming that you mean that the Tree of Souls was planted in Evermeet, and that Lamruil and the Elven Crusade were both given one of these "acorns": -Why was the Tree of Souls planted in Evermeet, when Corellon Larethian specifically stated not to plant it there? -Why would the Tree of Souls produce offspring in the first place? Having it be able to do so in the first place really negates any "spiritual/sentimental" value that the actual sapling would have had in the first place. -Why did the Tree of Souls suddenly gain abilities that it never had exhibited in the first place, in repeling creatures from the Lower Planes?
GothicDan 08-08-07, 09:24 PM	And there's the act that the Tree of Souls was specifically crafted from the souls of those Elves lost in the Sundering, implying there was a limit to its magic. If it was an ARTIFACT capable of spawning multiple magical items (also possible artifacts), it would have little emotional poignancy, and much of the grandiosity of Corellon and Angharradh bestowing it would have been lost. As Elaine has inferred, multiple Excaliburs gets boring.
Krash 08-08-07, 09:28 PM	-Assuming that you mean that the Tree of Souls was planted in Evermeet, and that Lamruil and the Elven Crusade were both given one of these "acorns": -Why was the Tree of Souls planted in Evermeet, when Corellon Larethian specifically stated not to plant it there? -Why would the Tree of Souls produce offspring in the first place? Having it be able to do so in the first place really negates any "spiritual/sentimental" value that the actual sapling would have had in the first place. -Why did the Tree of Souls suddenly gain abilities that it never had exhibited in the first place, in repeling creatures from the Lower Planes? Nope, I meant that Lamruil has planted it as he was supposed to. And why wouldn't the Tree of Souls produce 'offspring'? I'm not sure that I understand the spiritual/sentimental value thing you mention. Why can't a sapling exhibit powers different from the "mommy tree"? Arguably, the Tree of Souls would produce what the elves needed at a future time. Does that match the spiritual/sentimental value thing you mention? -- George Krashos
Green Elven Vampire 08-08-07, 09:29 PM	The tree of souls was never planted and was just a sapling given to the Green Elf, Starleaf on Evermeet when Evermeet and the Tree of souls was first created during the Sundering. Corellon said to Starleaf never to plant the Tree of Souls on Evermeet, but it doesn't mean it couldn't grow acorns or seeds, as it is a living thing. The way I understood events in LMT is this... Amlaruil gave the actual Tree to Lamruil to plant in the hidden realm far to the frozen north, and gave one of the Acorns from the Tree of Souls to the Crusade. That leaves one more Acorn for an author or DM to place somewhere. Possibly The Winterwood, which was one of the greatest ancient forests to ever hold Elven High Magic before the Crown Wars.
Krash 08-08-07, 09:31 PM	As Elaine has inferred, multiple Excaliburs gets boring. Quite right - as Elaine usually is. But then different Excaliburs that aren't called Excalibur are okay in my book. -- George Krashos
Krash 08-08-07, 09:33 PM	The tree of souls was never planted and was just a sapling given to the Green Elf, Starleaf on Evermeet when Evermeet and the Tree of souls was first created during the Sundering. Corellon said to Starleaf never to plant the Tree of Souls on Evermeet, but it doesn't mean it couldn't grow acorns or seeds, as it is a living thing. The way I understood events in LMT is this... Amlaruil gave the actual Tree to Lamruil to plant in the hidden realm far to the frozen north, and gave one of the Acorns from the Tree of Souls to the Crusade. That leaves one more Acorn for an author or DM to place somewhere. Possibly The Winterwood, which was one of the greatest ancient forests to ever hold Elven High Magic before the Crown Wars. Spot on GEV. You're an elven vampire who sees the difference between "error" and "opportunity". Bravo.:) -- George Krashos
Lord Karsus 08-08-07, 11:00 PM	And why wouldn't the Tree of Souls produce 'offspring'? I'm not sure that I understand the spiritual/sentimental value thing you mention. -The "multiple Excalibur" argument. The Tree of Souls loses it's poignancy if there are, you know, seventeen different trees scattered all over the place. Why can't a sapling exhibit powers different from the "mommy tree"? Arguably, the Tree of Souls would produce what the elves needed at a future time. Does that match the spiritual/sentimental value thing you mention? -My argument is that there shouldn't be a sapling, period. Firstly, again, why would the Tree of Souls create saplings? Though nothing in canon says that the Tree of Souls can't create saplings once planted, nothing says that it can produce saplings, either. -If the Tree of Souls was planted in Lamruil's secret kingdom, there is an opportunity for an "acorn", and therefore a new sapling. -If the Tree of Souls was not planted in Evermeet, the Tree of Souls itself would still be a sapling itself. Immature trees, as the Tree of Souls would be in this scenario, cannot produce acorns, as they are still immature. The tree of souls was never planted and was just a sapling given to the Green Elf, Starleaf on Evermeet when Evermeet and the Tree of souls was first created during the Sundering. Corellon said to Starleaf never to plant the Tree of Souls on Evermeet, but it doesn't mean it couldn't grow acorns or seeds, as it is a living thing. -According to the LMT, the Tree of Souls was planted on Evermeet. -Theoretically, if it weren't, the Tree of Souls would not be able to create "acorns", since, as I mentioned above, it would still be a sapling- and immature- itself. -Sorry if my thoughts seem to be all over the place right now. I'm kind of doing twelve things at once. ;)
GothicDan 08-08-07, 11:07 PM	As LK pointed out, according to the LMT, and Rich Baker, the Tree of Souls WAS planted on Evermeet. And as to Krash's argument about two Excaliburs being called two different things - I don't think that makes a difference. Throughout history and various languages, there are many "Excaliburs," but they all refer to the same sword, which is why it's still a powerful symbol. Multiple Excaliburs (Excalibur vs. Escalibo vs. Excalidan, whatever) decreases the story drama of EACH one. Just as there were many Moonblades, but over time, there was only ONE King's Blade that chose the ruler of Evermeet. I think an error can be an opportunity, but it's foolish to try to tell the fans that it wasn't an error, when the author admitted it was. Then it just makes one appear blindly zealous. I truly respect your knowledge of FR, Krash, and I sincerely think that you are one of the people most likely to be able to properly fix such opportunities/errors, but that doesn't change my sentiment towards the errors in the first place, when one such as this one could have been pretty easily avoided.
Krash 08-08-07, 11:10 PM	Umm, where did I tell you that it wasn't an error? -- George Krashos
GothicDan 08-08-07, 11:12 PM	I was referring to the sentiment expressed here: Spot on GEV. You're an elven vampire who sees the difference between "error" and "opportunity". Bravo. What exactly were you referring to? I apologize if I misread/misinterpreted something - you didn't specify exactly to what you were referring, and neither did GEV's post stay completely on one topic. And I have to say that although I do disagree with a lot of things Rich did (and I'd never consider them canon in my Realms, if I played them - no one I've ever met IRL is actually interested in gaming in FR), I respected him for admitting his error.
Green Elven Vampire 08-09-07, 01:38 AM	I usually have several different thoughts and ideas tumbling around my mind when I post, think, talk and sleep, so forgive me for not staying completely on topic. I had forgotten (realms) that the tree WAS planted in the book. It's easy enough to get around IMO, just as so many other little mishaps and errors in FR. In this case, in our campaign where I DM, I'll just have the saplings come from the actual Tree of Souls which was planted by Lamruil in the hidden kingdom. Seems logical enough to work just fine. But I do like the idea LK has as well. Heck, in my campaign, the two Dlardregeth's got away by the skin of their fangs, to sit and plan and plot.
Stigger 08-09-07, 03:45 AM	Why can't a sapling exhibit powers different from the "mommy tree"? Arguably, the Tree of Souls would produce what the elves needed at a future time. Now that strikes me as an interesting idea there... might have to borrow that one for a few things I have in mind for my campaign.
GothicDan 08-10-07, 02:30 PM	It's not a bad idea. I believe Mr. Schend originally came up with it. My only contention was that this still meant the tree was planted on Evermeet (Durr, okay Corellon, I'll let others know you said NOT to plant the tree here! *Plant* - Smart, Lamruil..). Well, also, I think that given the nature of Elves, the Tree would have taken centuries to actually grow to any sense of maturity to give such saplings/acorns. That's a thematic issue I have - I would have given it at least one generation.
Lord Karsus 08-10-07, 11:30 PM	Well, also, I think that given the nature of Elves, the Tree would have taken centuries to actually grow to any sense of maturity to give such saplings/acorns. That's a thematic issue I have - I would have given it at least one generation. -Once planted, the Tree of Souls is supposed to instantly grow to it's full size. Of course, that doesn't have anything to do with how long- or even if- seeds begin to appear.
GothicDan 08-10-07, 11:54 PM	I forgot about that bit. But, as you said, it doesn't have any direct bearing as to the duration it would take for the saplings/acorns to appear.
Green Elven Vampire 08-11-07, 12:03 AM	I believe its greatest power is to bestow High Magic within a 100 ft. radius with no penalties for every year it grows. After 10 years you have a 1,000 ft. radius of elven high magic with no penalties. That is some serious heavy magic. And it says nothing of the growth stopping. what would the radius progression be after say, 200 years? 20,000 ft. radius?
GothicDan 08-11-07, 12:04 AM	High Magic suffers no penalties in 3E.
Lord Karsus 08-11-07, 12:14 AM	what would the radius progression be after say, 200 years? 20,000 ft. radius? -All of Abeir-Toril. High Magic suffers no penalties in 3E. -I don't recall how I reconciled that particular bit...I hope I did that already, though...Oy...
Krash 08-11-07, 10:47 AM	I forgot about that bit. But, as you said, it doesn't have any direct bearing as to the duration it would take for the saplings/acorns to appear. So you can accept that it grows to full size as soon as it is planted, but still have issues with its ability to grow acorns ...? All I can say is :D Oh, and one last thing before I leave this thread: while I know that Rich candidly said that he thought the Tree had been planted on Evermeet which is why he wrote what he did in LM, LM does not actually say anything of the kind. See you all at the FR seminars at GEN-CON.:) -- George Krashos
GothicDan 08-11-07, 10:57 AM	So you can accept that it grows to full size as soon as it is planted, but still have issues with its ability to grow acorns ...? All I can say is Oh, and one last thing before I leave this thread: while I know that Rich candidly said that he thought the Tree had been planted on Evermeet which is why he wrote what he did in LM, LM does not actually say anything of the kind. See you all at the FR seminars at GEN-CON. Well... As I said Krash, I have firm belief in the fact that you're the one worthy of fixing this for what it is. It's not much of a problem for me on a purely personal level since I wouldn't use the Last Mythal stuff anyway, but ah well. :) I'm going to go back to studying for my physics GREs now. Pain.
HVulpes 08-11-07, 12:46 PM	My opinions is this: One, the Tree of Souls is a magic tree. Magic plants in our world were capable of great powers like growing sheep or swans or releasing a killing scream. So it is not impossible for it to bloom instantly when planted. Depending on the time that the prince reached his kingdom it could have been between 1-3 years. Also the Myth Drannor tree is not Excalibur, but would be a different magic sword with unique properties. Also we have to think is the Queen telling the truth? Could she be lying about it being a sapling of the Tree of Souls so as to protect the real tree by making people think that it is placed on Evermeet and not up north. I do believe that she would tell any lie if it would benefit the elves in the end, even if she is lying to elves. Plus the most powerful figures in the realms tend to keep major secrets. Like how she hids here true feeling for Arilyn, likely to protect her from those elves against Half-elves in the court. A combination of these two ideas is the fact that the Queen let a Drow on the island to discuss letting Elistraee Drow to retreat. Just saying my peace. HVulpes
Lord Karsus 08-11-07, 06:37 PM	So you can accept that it grows to full size as soon as it is planted, but still have issues with its ability to grow acorns ...? All I can say is :D -Aha, you reminded me! Another reason why the item given to the Crusade by Queen Amlauril could not have been a/the Tree of Souls. "In its center stood the Tree of Souls, whose slender silvery trunk reached almost twenty feet in height...'Grow strong, grow tall', he said to the young Tree of Souls, resting his hand on its warm bark." (Final Gate, 337-338). The Tree of Souls would have grown to it's full height instantly.
Krash 08-12-07, 06:49 AM	Well, that's clear from LM. It's A Tree of Souls, not THE Tree of Souls.:) -- George Krashos
msatran 08-12-07, 11:42 AM	Yeah. In my game if you're anything other than an Elf, and you touch ANY of these elven magic trees, you get sucked in. (NO SAVING THROW) The Seldarine give you a choice. Become an Elf, and receive the benefits of the tree of souls, or get spat out, and get nothing. :) I've actually seen people get spat out and get nothing. NO ONE has actually chosen to become an elf.
Lord Karsus 08-12-07, 11:41 PM	Well, that's clear from LM. It's A Tree of Souls, not THE Tree of Souls.:) -- George Krashos -If it is indeed A Tree of Souls, it should behave like THE Tree of Souls.
Krash 08-13-07, 07:20 AM	Yeah, too true. I can't wait for some novelist to get to grips with this tree and make it a pile of fancy lumber. Then there won't be anything to worry about. -- George Krashos
Lord Karsus 08-13-07, 09:59 AM	Yeah, too true. I can't wait for some novelist to get to grips with this tree and make it a pile of fancy lumber. Then there won't be anything to worry about. -- George Krashos -We're either going to have to wait a couple of more actual years, or someone is going to utilize chronomancy in their story, which would actually be pretty interesting, I think. -I agree, though, that Myth Drannor needs to be overran by evil hordes once more.
Green Elven Vampire 08-13-07, 10:55 AM	Oh, let Myth Drannor be for Erevan's sake.
MaskedOne 08-14-07, 01:21 AM	-We're either going to have to wait a couple of more actual years, or someone is going to utilize chronomancy in their story, which would actually be pretty interesting, I think. -I agree, though, that Myth Drannor needs to be overran by evil hordes once more. Or not, the pound on Good cities and agencies for cheap thrills approach to plot development needs to be kept in check a touch. It's beginning to be tiresome. Can we contain our evil hordes and wholesale destruction for a few years?
GothicDan 08-14-07, 01:26 AM	Myth Drannor being 'reclaimed' by good (with fairly minimal Elven occupants) really doesn't hold much water against the number of blatant, "Hey, evil can win, too, especially if you ignore logic!" events that have happened lately, and will most likely happen again.
MarkHall 08-14-07, 02:58 AM	Myth Drannor being 'reclaimed' by good (with fairly minimal Elven occupants) really doesn't hold much water against the number of blatant, "Hey, evil can win, too, especially if you ignore logic!" events that have happened lately, and will most likely happen again. I ran a game where the elves were beginning to retake Myth Drannor (it was set after the Last Mythal Trilogy). There were, of course, complications... interaction with the Dales, the Eldrith Veluthraa, the drow lythari, and, of course, the goblinoids trying to take over Sserssendale (spelling on a couple of those; I'm a bit lazy to look them up), after leaving Arabel.
msatran 08-14-07, 03:09 AM	Once again, my problem with retaking Myth Drannor is that it took the most desirable adventuring site in the Forgotten Realms, and put it on a timer. This was the holy grail of dungeon sites, and now it's the center of the New Jackboot Elven Tyranny. And by this, I mean that D+D should be about crawling around in Dungeons, not happy endings. How many of these lost empires stay lost in the Realms anymore. I know people LOVE redemption stories, but quite frankly, this is a Mithril Hall retread for Elves. They couldn't leave Imaskar, or Netheril, or any of the others buried. How long before the Rhaumathari return, or one of the others? One of the reasons it was the FORGOTTEN REALMS was that these empires were LOST. And some of them need to STAY lost, so that the DM can WORK.
MarkHall 08-14-07, 03:27 AM	Who says mine didn't involve work? First of all, you have conflicting loyalties within the party. Are they loyal to the elven coronal, or the Dales, or the Sembians? One of my players is interested in playing an Eldrith Veluthraa character, as I knew she would be. Others like to play humans, or dwarves, who are not likely to stand aside and let the elves expand into some of the Dales. Then you have the problems with other factions. There's the drow, who are seeking power (I played it as being 2nd edition drow, who lost their special abilities when on the surface... they coerced a lythari into turning them into lythari) and position (so they're seeking the other remains of ancient societies in the woods, at the same time as elves). You've got the goblinoids of Thunderdale (their new name for it), trying to carve out a kingdom, while dealing with the blandishments of the Zhents, who would be only too eager to have friends on the south edge of the Dale. And, just because Myth Drannor is "fixed" doesn't mean that the world is perfect... there are escaped outsiders and tons of still-lost ruins.
Green Elven Vampire 08-14-07, 10:37 AM	You don't have to follow the novel if you don't want to. I LOVE the idea of Myth Drannor being taken back by the elves. And you still have dozens and dozens of ancient elven city ruins to run your "dungeons" in and about. If you want MD to remain a haven for Baatezu, Phaerimm, Tannar'ri and other beasties then make it so. Or just pretend that the elves have taken back a different ancient city. Pick a forest... Winterwood, High Forest, Ardeep, Laughing Hallow, Kryptgarden, etc... etc...
Stigger 08-14-07, 07:04 PM	I think I'd be in favor of the elves reclaiming Aelinthaldaar and reclaiming Illefarn...
GothicDan 08-14-07, 08:48 PM	I'd first like Elaine's original storyline regarding Lamruil to have been given precedence. Setting up a small, clandestine realm on Faerun proper that would grow over years, gathering allies carefully, etc., is far more appropriate, in my opinion, to the sort of Elves that have been typically portrayed before (not counting Crown War era and such). I really didn't want another huge wiz-bang-save-the-world thing, regardless of whichever Elven realm/city was taken or created. It casts the Elves in a light that seems more human - which some people like. I don't. In my eyes, Elves were never truly on the decline - they were flowing with the times by observing them apart from the fray. It really felt like a more cerebral, long-term way of life, as I would expect from Elven society at large. There's always the younger adventurers or the occasional rebellious adult, but they seem to be more in the minority. I'm really bored with minority novel antagonists. (Gasp.)
msatran 08-15-07, 02:26 AM	My other problem was that Sarya was too stupid to lead. Why would she even be remotely disgusted with having sex with Malkazid in exchange for planar aid after giving birth to a four armed slayer horror like Xulph? The novels just don't MAKE SENSE. It's not just that they take the most classic locations in the Realms and ruin them for future adventuring. (And they do, because the appeal of Myth Drannor was "Most dangerous place on Toril"), it's that they refurbish them with Elven homes, etc. Quite frankly, I don't want to run a game where the PC's are hired by Elven Real Estate Agents, which is really what this boils down to for Player Characters. "Excuse me, Mr. Adventurer? We have this prime piece of property. In exchange for a portion of it's commission value when we acquire a buyer, could you perhaps clear the house of that nasty Watchghost and it's Umber Hulk allies?" Somehow, I just don't see it.
Green Elven Vampire 08-15-07, 03:36 AM	My other problem was that Sarya was too stupid to lead. Why would she even be remotely disgusted with having sex with Malkazid in exchange for planar aid after giving birth to a four armed slayer horror like Xulph? The novels just don't MAKE SENSE. It's not just that they take the most classic locations in the Realms and ruin them for future adventuring. (And they do, because the appeal of Myth Drannor was "Most dangerous place on Toril"), it's that they refurbish them with Elven homes, etc. Quite frankly, I don't want to run a game where the PC's are hired by Elven Real Estate Agents, which is really what this boils down to for Player Characters. "Excuse me, Mr. Adventurer? We have this prime piece of property. In exchange for a portion of it's commission value when we acquire a buyer, could you perhaps clear the house of that nasty Watchghost and it's Umber Hulk allies?" Somehow, I just don't see it. That's wonderful for you and I hope you save the day or die either way you see fit for your campaign. I for one will move on to another ancient elven realm lost to thousands of years before Myth Drannor was even a village, and deem that realm "Most dangerous place on Toril". Heck, Hellgate Keep (ascalhorn) was just as dangerous as Myth Drannor if not even more so, back in the day when Baatezu and Tanar'ri hoards started their own Blood Wars in that city. A Balor lord held that keep until just about what... 1367/68. The Fallen Lands or even The Forgotten Forest could be just as dangerous as Myth Drannor if you do the research or DM the game right. No need to be so rough or bitter over how the trilogy was written, and to get into much more detail is a violation of boards rules.
GothicDan 08-15-07, 11:48 AM	GEV, you do realize your reply has nothing to do with what Msatran's contention was, right?
MarkHall 08-15-07, 11:50 AM	My other problem was that Sarya was too stupid to lead. Why would she even be remotely disgusted with having sex with Malkazid in exchange for planar aid after giving birth to a four armed slayer horror like Xulph? Forced into it v. choice made for power; I recall her thinking that the mating with the Glabrezu who fathered Xalph was not something she liked recalling. The novels just don't MAKE SENSE. There was an aspect of "Let's go on a Grand Tour of the Realms" to them that I really didn't like, but the general idea... that the Fey'ri were going to surge and attempt to take over some old elven strongholds has been there for since at least the FRCS.
GothicDan 08-15-07, 11:59 AM	Which also had its share of errors. Very often I don't have problems with the root ideas of things - those are what CAN be transported from Core to FR, or whatever, or plunked down in any world. But the pulling off of those ideas - the tying in with canon and theme - is where things all too often fall short in the eyes of some.
Green Elven Vampire 08-15-07, 02:35 PM	GEV, you do realize your reply has nothing to do with what Msatran's contention was, right? Is this so? I wasn't aware of this.
Stigger 08-15-07, 03:13 PM	That real estate agent approach I find just too funny for words... so gonna have to borrow that idea and toss it out to my players just to see how they react to that one... :D
MarkHall 08-15-07, 05:53 PM	The ironic part is that the real-estate approach is precisely what a lot of low-level adventures are. "Go to this place and clean out the monsters, so individual X can take over the place." Heck, with a 9th level fighter in 2nd edition, that's how we often got our castles... we took them over and fixed them up, rather than build from scratch.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 08-16-07, 10:10 PM	I did not like Tree of Souls (and numerous other things...) as depicted in the LM trilogy. I did not like the major change introduced in this trilogy, either. There are all sorts of ways to explain the baby Tree of Souls, and that's fine, but I personally am not interested in doing that, because in MY Realms those events didn't happen--I've chosen to ignore them. So, that's my bit of advice--if you think the new ToS is silly, simply ignore it.:) If you like it, come up with a way to explain how it "meshes" with the older lore. No one loses.
Lord Karsus 08-16-07, 10:15 PM	So, that's my bit of advice--if you think the new ToS is silly, simply ignore it.:) If you like it, come up with a way to explain how it "meshes" with the older lore. No one loses. -Of course, this entire thread was to determine if my theory "meshed" with canon. ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 08-17-07, 10:13 AM	-Of course, this entire thread was to determine if my theory "meshed" with canon. ;) Understood.:) Personally, it's hard for me to look at any theories objectively because I...vehemently...disliked the whole issue to begin with.
Lord Karsus 08-18-07, 12:11 AM	Understood.:) Personally, it's hard for me to look at any theories objectively because I...vehemently...disliked the whole issue to begin with. -Well, that's why I'm trying to 'fix' it.