Quesion concerning Elminister [Archive] - Wizards Community

Quesion concerning Elminister [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dankan
01-10-08, 02:39 AM Ok although i've read almost every novel and sourcebook concerning the Sage of Shadowdale i've come to the following conclusions:
His levels are fake, cause after the Temptation of Elminister(and a few times before) he rarely notices that he has other levels than wizard and he acts like being purely one.Where are the capabillities of those lvls of Rogue, Fighter and Cleric if he never uses them?
Furthermore i don't think his stats are real since he seems to have taken a lvl in fighter(hence the Making of a Mage) perhaps even a couple levels as a rogue as he's stated, but 3 lvls of cleric?That's highly doubtful as he never seems to cast a single divine spell, needless to say about 2nd lvl spells.So how about it?
Finally the items he appears with both in the FRCS and ELH are so untrue, despite given as his signature possesions.Think does he ever appeared with a ring of regeneration(he hardly needs any thnx to his fast healing with silver fire), an amulet of natural armor, a necklace of fireballs(that maybe i.m not sure), or even a ring of protection?Give me a break the only possesion tha he appears with are his pipe and his sword as i noticed that they appear in all the novels about him.
Can anyone explain me this and perhaps expand the subject of his items(i mean what items that i can't remember has he appeared with)?
Faraer
01-10-08, 02:59 AM Levels are arguable without end or point; realistically and in the Realms, rarely used abilities fade, but they don't in D&D. He certainly retains some of his martial prowess, as seen in Shadows of Doom.

The magical items listed in the game write-ups are just typical carried examples of the hundreds he possesses. Some are carried over from "All About Elminster" in Dragon #110: "Elminster has been known to wear a necklace of missiles, and customarily wears a +3 ring of protection and a non-vampiric ring of regeneration." Whereas he doesn't habitually carry the Lion Sword -- that's a conceit of 3E concept design. That non-plot-relevant passive defensive magic is rarely mentioned in the fiction is no surprise; so, for instance, are the contingencies that all mages of power employ.
Faraer
01-10-08, 03:01 AM --
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
01-10-08, 01:37 PM Also, remember that those novels were written before Elminster got 3E stats. So it's fallacious to try to hold Elminster to specific levels (like the three levels in cleric) if the novel you are talking about predates the stats.
GoldDragon
01-10-08, 08:09 PM Ok although i've read almost every novel and sourcebook concerning the Sage of Shadowdale i've come to the following conclusions:
His levels are fake, cause after the Temptation of Elminister(and a few times before) he rarely notices that he has other levels than wizard and he acts like being purely one.Where are the capabillities of those lvls of Rogue, Fighter and Cleric if he never uses them?
Furthermore i don't think his stats are real since he seems to have taken a lvl in fighter(hence the Making of a Mage) perhaps even a couple levels as a rogue as he's stated, but 3 lvls of cleric?That's highly doubtful as he never seems to cast a single divine spell, needless to say about 2nd lvl spells.So how about it?
Finally the items he appears with both in the FRCS and ELH are so untrue, despite given as his signature possesions.Think does he ever appeared with a ring of regeneration(he hardly needs any thnx to his fast healing with silver fire), an amulet of natural armor, a necklace of fireballs(that maybe i.m not sure), or even a ring of protection?Give me a break the only possesion tha he appears with are his pipe and his sword as i noticed that they appear in all the novels about him.
Can anyone explain me this and perhaps expand the subject of his items(i mean what items that i can't remember has he appeared with)?

Characters and PC have no concept of "levels" or Classes.

Eliminster took up his Assassinated father's broken sword and became a "thug" but soon found out he had no heart for stealing and no taste for shedding blood and thus gave up "being a thief"

He was a Mercenary for a while, but again it's something now behind him and he rarely has a need to "get physical" in Mele considering he prefers to use words first (as all Sage types do) and then is Magic second if negotiations and/or verbal manipulations fail

To hide from his foes and to practice Magic he became a female Priestess of the Church of Mystra and when he was ready to face his foes using the Arts he became Male again and may or may not have had to use his minor ability to pray for and Cast Spells since his Silverfire, Spellfire, and spontaneous spell casting abilities can make having to "waste time Praying" inconvenient at best
Faraer
01-10-08, 08:10 PM Maybe the 3E authors honestly felt Elminster was best represented that way, maybe they took a chance to show off the new multiclassing rules. On the other hand, I don't doubt he does have the abilities of a Clr3 and could pray for and be granted divine magic, just as he has psionics and (like many other characters) other minor powers not touched on in these approximate (however bloated) stat blocks.
MarkusTay63
01-10-08, 09:53 PM In the novel Elminster: The Making of a Mage, the book is broken up into four sections - Brigand, Burglar, Priest, and Magus, and he uses the appropriate spells and abilities in each section of the book. Later, in The Temptation of Elminster, Mystra charges him not to use any magic until 'further notice', and at least a year goes by where he uses his other abilites - he even defeats a small army of mecenaries using his fighting skills, and even manages a few 'backstabs' to boot. Later in that same book he cures two wizards with his healing magic (priest). It specifically says he casts healing spells, and does not use his silver fire on them.

Lately Elminster mostly uses his magic, because thats whats most needed, and he has others to do the other stuff for him, but in the past he has always relied on his well-rounded skill selection to get him through.

Besides, he acts more like a rogue then a wizard.

As far as his selection of 'toys' goes, its up to the DM to decide what he has on him at the time of the encounter. The stat block only lets us know the type of stuff we can typically expect to find on him.

In D&D, the rules aren't the law, they are merely suggestions. ;)
Dankan
01-12-08, 01:11 PM Which one is Shadows of doom?
Faraer
01-12-08, 06:47 PM The first Shadow of the Avatar novel, involved with the High Dale.
Dankan
01-13-08, 04:47 AM Thnx i'll check it!
GreenKnight
01-13-08, 07:27 AM Somewhat offtopic, but with the news about retraining rules in 4E, I wonder how many Realms NPC's would make more sense as characters who retrained? For instance, does Drizzt make sense as a Barbarian 1/Fighter 10/Ranger 5, or would he make more sense as a character who was Barbarian 1/Fighter 10, and through retraining, became Barbarian 1/Fighter 5/Ranger 5?
The_Shaman
01-13-08, 10:07 AM I don't think it would suit him, really. His fighter background comes through the courtesy of all those years he worked his bum off in Menzoberanzan, and this is why he's as good at bladework as he is. On the other side, his levels imply that he's not so great at the ranger tricks (particularly animal companion and spellcasting ;) ) as someone who'd been a ranger all his life.
Khaelieth
01-13-08, 12:04 PM Ok although i've read almost every novel and sourcebook concerning the Sage of Shadowdale i've come to the following conclusions:
His levels are fake, cause after the Temptation of Elminister

And you STILL got his name wrong? Levels are only guidelines anyway...
MarkusTay63
01-13-08, 02:48 PM He only goes by Elminister when he is acting as a priest of Mystra. :P

Or Elmara... :rolleyes:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
01-13-08, 06:03 PM I once read someone refer to him as "The Elminister." :rofl:
Khaelieth
01-13-08, 06:32 PM He's honourary chief hobo of Loudwater too!
GreenKnight
01-13-08, 06:58 PM I once read someone refer to him as "The Elminister." :rofl:

A friend of mine used to call him Elminister. It drove me nuts. I kept telling him "Mike, it's Elminster. El-MIN-ster!"
SCOUT1IDF
01-13-08, 10:36 PM It's just my opinion, but being a CHOSEN OF MYSTRA and her teacher, I think Elminster could probably do anything he wants (fighter, cleric, thief.....) and do it better than almost anybody else. Thats just my opinion.
GoldDragon
01-13-08, 11:20 PM Somewhat offtopic, but with the news about retraining rules in 4E, I wonder how many Realms NPC's would make more sense as characters who retrained? For instance, does Drizzt make sense as a Barbarian 1/Fighter 10/Ranger 5, or would he make more sense as a character who was Barbarian 1/Fighter 10, and through retraining, became Barbarian 1/Fighter 5/Ranger 5?

um. like I mentioned earlier the Character (or PC) has no concept of Levels or Class and Drizzt could be labeled a 15th level Ballerina and he would have no concept of that Label
GreenKnight
01-14-08, 12:00 AM um. like I mentioned earlier the Character (or PC) has no concept of Levels or Class and Drizzt could be labeled a 15th level Ballerina and he would have no concept of that Label

...and what does this have to do with what I was talking about? Does the character need to know what level they are in order to create a good representation of them in D&D? :confused:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dankan 01-10-08, 02:39 AM	Ok although i've read almost every novel and sourcebook concerning the Sage of Shadowdale i've come to the following conclusions: His levels are fake, cause after the Temptation of Elminister(and a few times before) he rarely notices that he has other levels than wizard and he acts like being purely one.Where are the capabillities of those lvls of Rogue, Fighter and Cleric if he never uses them? Furthermore i don't think his stats are real since he seems to have taken a lvl in fighter(hence the Making of a Mage) perhaps even a couple levels as a rogue as he's stated, but 3 lvls of cleric?That's highly doubtful as he never seems to cast a single divine spell, needless to say about 2nd lvl spells.So how about it? Finally the items he appears with both in the FRCS and ELH are so untrue, despite given as his signature possesions.Think does he ever appeared with a ring of regeneration(he hardly needs any thnx to his fast healing with silver fire), an amulet of natural armor, a necklace of fireballs(that maybe i.m not sure), or even a ring of protection?Give me a break the only possesion tha he appears with are his pipe and his sword as i noticed that they appear in all the novels about him. Can anyone explain me this and perhaps expand the subject of his items(i mean what items that i can't remember has he appeared with)?
Faraer 01-10-08, 02:59 AM	Levels are arguable without end or point; realistically and in the Realms, rarely used abilities fade, but they don't in D&D. He certainly retains some of his martial prowess, as seen in Shadows of Doom. The magical items listed in the game write-ups are just typical carried examples of the hundreds he possesses. Some are carried over from "All About Elminster" in Dragon #110: "Elminster has been known to wear a necklace of missiles, and customarily wears a +3 ring of protection and a non-vampiric ring of regeneration." Whereas he doesn't habitually carry the Lion Sword -- that's a conceit of 3E concept design. That non-plot-relevant passive defensive magic is rarely mentioned in the fiction is no surprise; so, for instance, are the contingencies that all mages of power employ.
Faraer 01-10-08, 03:01 AM	--
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-10-08, 01:37 PM	Also, remember that those novels were written before Elminster got 3E stats. So it's fallacious to try to hold Elminster to specific levels (like the three levels in cleric) if the novel you are talking about predates the stats.
GoldDragon 01-10-08, 08:09 PM	Ok although i've read almost every novel and sourcebook concerning the Sage of Shadowdale i've come to the following conclusions: His levels are fake, cause after the Temptation of Elminister(and a few times before) he rarely notices that he has other levels than wizard and he acts like being purely one.Where are the capabillities of those lvls of Rogue, Fighter and Cleric if he never uses them? Furthermore i don't think his stats are real since he seems to have taken a lvl in fighter(hence the Making of a Mage) perhaps even a couple levels as a rogue as he's stated, but 3 lvls of cleric?That's highly doubtful as he never seems to cast a single divine spell, needless to say about 2nd lvl spells.So how about it? Finally the items he appears with both in the FRCS and ELH are so untrue, despite given as his signature possesions.Think does he ever appeared with a ring of regeneration(he hardly needs any thnx to his fast healing with silver fire), an amulet of natural armor, a necklace of fireballs(that maybe i.m not sure), or even a ring of protection?Give me a break the only possesion tha he appears with are his pipe and his sword as i noticed that they appear in all the novels about him. Can anyone explain me this and perhaps expand the subject of his items(i mean what items that i can't remember has he appeared with)? Characters and PC have no concept of "levels" or Classes. Eliminster took up his Assassinated father's broken sword and became a "thug" but soon found out he had no heart for stealing and no taste for shedding blood and thus gave up "being a thief" He was a Mercenary for a while, but again it's something now behind him and he rarely has a need to "get physical" in Mele considering he prefers to use words first (as all Sage types do) and then is Magic second if negotiations and/or verbal manipulations fail To hide from his foes and to practice Magic he became a female Priestess of the Church of Mystra and when he was ready to face his foes using the Arts he became Male again and may or may not have had to use his minor ability to pray for and Cast Spells since his Silverfire, Spellfire, and spontaneous spell casting abilities can make having to "waste time Praying" inconvenient at best
Faraer 01-10-08, 08:10 PM	Maybe the 3E authors honestly felt Elminster was best represented that way, maybe they took a chance to show off the new multiclassing rules. On the other hand, I don't doubt he does have the abilities of a Clr3 and could pray for and be granted divine magic, just as he has psionics and (like many other characters) other minor powers not touched on in these approximate (however bloated) stat blocks.
MarkusTay63 01-10-08, 09:53 PM	In the novel Elminster: The Making of a Mage, the book is broken up into four sections - Brigand, Burglar, Priest, and Magus, and he uses the appropriate spells and abilities in each section of the book. Later, in The Temptation of Elminster, Mystra charges him not to use any magic until 'further notice', and at least a year goes by where he uses his other abilites - he even defeats a small army of mecenaries using his fighting skills, and even manages a few 'backstabs' to boot. Later in that same book he cures two wizards with his healing magic (priest). It specifically says he casts healing spells, and does not use his silver fire on them. Lately Elminster mostly uses his magic, because thats whats most needed, and he has others to do the other stuff for him, but in the past he has always relied on his well-rounded skill selection to get him through. Besides, he acts more like a rogue then a wizard. As far as his selection of 'toys' goes, its up to the DM to decide what he has on him at the time of the encounter. The stat block only lets us know the type of stuff we can typically expect to find on him. In D&D, the rules aren't the law, they are merely suggestions. ;)
Dankan 01-12-08, 01:11 PM	Which one is Shadows of doom?
Faraer 01-12-08, 06:47 PM	The first Shadow of the Avatar novel, involved with the High Dale.
Dankan 01-13-08, 04:47 AM	Thnx i'll check it!
GreenKnight 01-13-08, 07:27 AM	Somewhat offtopic, but with the news about retraining rules in 4E, I wonder how many Realms NPC's would make more sense as characters who retrained? For instance, does Drizzt make sense as a Barbarian 1/Fighter 10/Ranger 5, or would he make more sense as a character who was Barbarian 1/Fighter 10, and through retraining, became Barbarian 1/Fighter 5/Ranger 5?
The_Shaman 01-13-08, 10:07 AM	I don't think it would suit him, really. His fighter background comes through the courtesy of all those years he worked his bum off in Menzoberanzan, and this is why he's as good at bladework as he is. On the other side, his levels imply that he's not so great at the ranger tricks (particularly animal companion and spellcasting ;) ) as someone who'd been a ranger all his life.
Khaelieth 01-13-08, 12:04 PM	Ok although i've read almost every novel and sourcebook concerning the Sage of Shadowdale i've come to the following conclusions: His levels are fake, cause after the Temptation of Elminister And you STILL got his name wrong? Levels are only guidelines anyway...
MarkusTay63 01-13-08, 02:48 PM	He only goes by Elminister when he is acting as a priest of Mystra. :P Or Elmara... :rolleyes:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-13-08, 06:03 PM	I once read someone refer to him as "The Elminister." :rofl:
Khaelieth 01-13-08, 06:32 PM	He's honourary chief hobo of Loudwater too!
GreenKnight 01-13-08, 06:58 PM	I once read someone refer to him as "The Elminister." :rofl: A friend of mine used to call him Elminister. It drove me nuts. I kept telling him "Mike, it's Elminster. El-MIN-ster!"
SCOUT1IDF 01-13-08, 10:36 PM	It's just my opinion, but being a CHOSEN OF MYSTRA and her teacher, I think Elminster could probably do anything he wants (fighter, cleric, thief.....) and do it better than almost anybody else. Thats just my opinion.
GoldDragon 01-13-08, 11:20 PM	Somewhat offtopic, but with the news about retraining rules in 4E, I wonder how many Realms NPC's would make more sense as characters who retrained? For instance, does Drizzt make sense as a Barbarian 1/Fighter 10/Ranger 5, or would he make more sense as a character who was Barbarian 1/Fighter 10, and through retraining, became Barbarian 1/Fighter 5/Ranger 5? um. like I mentioned earlier the Character (or PC) has no concept of Levels or Class and Drizzt could be labeled a 15th level Ballerina and he would have no concept of that Label
GreenKnight 01-14-08, 12:00 AM	um. like I mentioned earlier the Character (or PC) has no concept of Levels or Class and Drizzt could be labeled a 15th level Ballerina and he would have no concept of that Label ...and what does this have to do with what I was talking about? Does the character need to know what level they are in order to create a good representation of them in D&D? :confused: