Question about Kaanyr Vhok. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Question about Kaanyr Vhok. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mad Mage
06-05-07, 02:59 PM I was curious: Has the leader of the Scoured Legion ever had his actual fiendish heritage revealed?

If I remember correctly, he is a half-fiend human. With the advent of the Half-Fiend Variants web enhancement for Fiendish Codex I, I wonder -- if he being an actual half-fiend from birth -- what exact type of fiend was the parent (father, I presume) in question.

Has any data of this been revealed, ever?
Lord Karsus
06-05-07, 05:45 PM -What exactly do you mean? Does he know he is a Cambion (Half-Fiend)? Yes, that he does. Do others? I'm sure this depends on who those others are.

-Vhok's mother was a demon, and if I recall correctly, she was a Marilith (Sp?). Kaanyr eventually "disposed" of her himself, when he felt he was more powerful than she, and this is how he came into control of the Scoured Legion.
Mad Mage
06-05-07, 06:58 PM -What exactly do you mean? Does he know he is a Cambion (Half-Fiend)? Yes, that he does. Do others? I'm sure this depends on who those others are.

-Vhok's mother was a demon, and if I recall correctly, she was a Marilith (Sp?). Kaanyr eventually "disposed" of her himself, when he felt he was more powerful than she, and this is how he came into control of the Scoured Legion.

Interesting.

So, then, has his physical features ever been noted? If he was the child of a Marilith, I'd wonder if he'd have extra (though likely unusable) arms and a tail.
ClobberinTime
06-05-07, 07:29 PM He is the child of a Marilith but has no extra arms that have been mentioned in any of the novels.
Lord Karsus
06-05-07, 07:34 PM So, then, has his physical features ever been noted?

Here, this might be a little helpful.

As the son of a true tanar'ri and a human father, Kaanyr Vhok is a marquis cambion, though he looks different from other Realms-bound cambions. Most observers see only his light olive complexion and silver-gray hair and believe him to be an aging half-elf due to his pointed ears, but beneath Kaanyr's rich clothes and cloak, his chest, upper arms, and legs are covered with deeper green scales as his tanar'ri legacy.

Thus far, though, any nontanar'ri who has seen Kaanyr's scales is dead, as Kaanyr plans to infiltrate certain power groups by using his looks as part of his disguise and cannot have his face well known or linked with Hellgate Keep for these plots to work well. Kaanyr Vhok is regal, bearing himself with an elegance and dignity that belies his chaotic blood. While he seems cultured and polite, his charm is purely for show, and his ruthlessness makes him capable of any thing that adds to his power.

Some few quick-blooded members of the Legion complain he acts too slowly, since he rarely makes a move unless the odds are in his favor, but few protest loudly or long, as his methods bring victory in the small skirmishes around the Keep. Even his most loyal troops fail to understand that Kaanyr Vhok sees everyone around him as an enemy. His allies are merely adversaries with whom he shares a common
goal and who are to be betrayed when they become liabilities.
Philalexandros
06-05-07, 10:48 PM I like that description a tad better than the one from the War of the Spider Queen series. That's not to say I didn't like the other one, though; he was fickle, flamboyant, and a bit more of what I excpect of a Tanar'ri... but what Karsus posted seems more along the lines of a half-fiend who would play off a Drow civil war for his own gains. :)
Panurg
06-06-07, 04:25 AM I also like the description LK mentioned, but I'm a bit confused, because in Underdark (126) he is mentioned as half fiend, not as cambion, nether cambion marquis.
Also Power of Faerun (130) mentiones him as half fiend.

As far as I know from 2ed Planescape and the threads around here, there is a difference between half fiend and cambion. It has something to do with the gender of the demon and the powers of the specific creature which results from this "partnership", they are also very different.

So is this a mistake, or is half fiend the generic term for all creatures spawned by demons (So why would they call Fey'ri and Tanarukks as they do and Cambions not?), or is it just not very precisely?

Thanks in advance ....:)
runestar
06-06-07, 07:40 AM I dunno - cambion was even made its own unique race in that new adventure module...:P
BrennonGoldeye
06-06-07, 07:55 AM I also like the description LK mentioned, but I'm a bit confused, because in Underdark (126) he is mentioned as half fiend, not as cambion, nether cambion marquis.
Also Power of Faerun (130) mentiones him as half fiend.

As far as I know from 2ed Planescape and the threads around here, there is a difference between half fiend and cambion. It has something to do with the gender of the demon and the powers of the specific creature which results from this "partnership", they are also very different.

So is this a mistake, or is half fiend the generic term for all creatures spawned by demons (So why would they call Fey'ri and Tanarukks as they do and Cambions not?), or is it just not very precisely?

Thanks in advance ....:)

I'll try on this one. Fey'ri(elven) and Tanurukks(orcish) are rough equivalents of Tieflings(human). If memory serves me correctly a Cambion is the direct child of true Fiend and a human. Not sure if other 1st generation crossbreeds(Yugoloth/Ogre) would be considered Cambions or not. Kaanyr would also be a Marquis Cambion as his mother was in the top tier of demony nastiness. Hope that helped. :)
Red_Wizard
06-06-07, 08:30 AM Human and Fiend mating creates a "Half-Fiend" As per the inherited template.

This being said, a male half-fiend is called a Cambion, while a female half-fiend is titled Alu, or Alu fiend.

Also of some note is that there are two breeds of Cambion. The Half-breed as Vhok is, and the 1/4 breed which is considered the True Cambion. This when a fiend, and a half fiend breed.
TheFallenWriter
06-06-07, 08:44 AM In the new book that featured he and Alliisza, Gossamer Plains, although it would be considered canon, they were saying how his mother was a Marliith, as Clobbering Time, and no he did no inherit the extra arms, just the scaly hide, as well as when it came time for him to succeed his mother, the Scoured Legion.
BrennonGoldeye
06-06-07, 08:55 AM Also of some note is that there are two breeds of Cambion. The Half-breed as Vhok is, and the 1/4 breed which is considered the True Cambion. This when a fiend, and a half fiend breed.

Hmm. Interesting. The first mention of a Cambion was 1/2 and 1/2. Oh well.:)
Mad Mage
06-06-07, 12:30 PM Thanks for the descriptions, folks. Paints a nifty picture.

From the sound of it, though, it does rather trump the Half-(insert specific fiend) thing from the FC1 web enhancement. :(
GothicDan
06-06-07, 01:38 PM Tanar'ri blood doesn't always run.. Right. A descent of a Pit Fiend isn't necessarily going to have any of the aspects of a Pit Fiend - thought it might.

That's what happens when super-Chaotic creatures breed. Sometimes. ;)
ClobberinTime
06-06-07, 03:53 PM Guys in 1+2ed when humans mated with a demon you got a Cambion, in game terms this was much more similar to the Cambion that got released with Expedition to the Demonweb.

When 3ed came along they ditched the Cambion and came up with the Half-Fiend template (there weren't any templates before 3ed). The description of Kannyr Vhok in Hellgate Keep is the 2ed version.

Personally I think making him a Cambion from the EttDWP makes more sense stylistically. Plus it ups his cr to what 17 or something.
BrennonGoldeye
06-06-07, 09:10 PM And the original cambion was...........
Lord Karsus
06-06-07, 10:49 PM And the original cambion was...........

-Your momma? :D
GothicDan
06-06-07, 11:21 PM I vote Iuz.
Dxzauvrinn
06-07-07, 12:42 AM I'd make Vhok a marquis cambion, which was updated to 3rd in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits. That's what Vhok is mainly described as, and often referred to as in the novels anyway. He was also a true marquis cambion in 2ed.
However, I'm not sure if he technically qualifies as a marquis cambion anymore since in 3rd edition I think a marquis cambion is only created when a demon prince and a half-fiend mate. Don't think Vhok's marilith mother qualified as a demon prince, though she may have very well been extremely powerful.
Dxzauvrinn
06-07-07, 12:56 AM Hmmm...just read the cambion entry in Expedition to the Demonwebs again and it says "although the term 'cambion' is often applied to any humanoid half-fiend, a true cambion springs from a union between a powerful tanar'ri father and a planetouched mother - usually a tiefling.""The higher-ranking marquis and baron cambions result from the unions of demon lords or princes with female humanoid half-fiends."

So, according to this, it would seem that Vhok is technically only a half-fiend human since his mother and was a demon and not his father.

If he ever makes an appearance in my campaign though, I'm stating him as a marquis cambion. In the novels he has the look and the powers of one and it's what he was originally supposed to be.
Shemeska the Marauder
06-07-07, 04:46 AM Cambions are half-fiends, but not all half-fiends are cambions.

Cambions (and alu-fiends) are very specific subtypes of half-fiend. Initially in 3.x they completely ignored the 2e complexities regarding various half-breeds of fiend and mortal, and just had a generic half-fiend template, thus you see Vhok described sometimes as just a half-fiend and nothing more in detail beyond that. He is nonetheless however a marquis cambion if you want to be specific about his heritage.
Panurg
06-07-07, 07:03 AM Thank you, ...
BrennonGoldeye
06-07-07, 01:31 PM -Your momma? :D

Besides her.....:P

I vote Iuz.

Ah, once again Dan shows why he has a right to be elitist!:D
MarkusTay63
06-07-07, 04:37 PM I found THIS, (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9974/f_tree.htm) which is a decent reference.

And then there is also Rip Van Wormer's work (http://www.geocities.com/ripvanwormer/bookoftieflings.html) on the subject.

Half-Anything is always confusing. I'm still trying to figure out what source the 'Lings' are in... :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus
06-07-07, 06:43 PM Half-Anything is always confusing. I'm still trying to figure out what source the 'Lings' are in... :rolleyes:

-I assume you'll include them in the Kara-Tur Re-Dux?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mad Mage 06-05-07, 02:59 PM	I was curious: Has the leader of the Scoured Legion ever had his actual fiendish heritage revealed? If I remember correctly, he is a half-fiend human. With the advent of the Half-Fiend Variants web enhancement for Fiendish Codex I, I wonder -- if he being an actual half-fiend from birth -- what exact type of fiend was the parent (father, I presume) in question. Has any data of this been revealed, ever?
Lord Karsus 06-05-07, 05:45 PM	-What exactly do you mean? Does he know he is a Cambion (Half-Fiend)? Yes, that he does. Do others? I'm sure this depends on who those others are. -Vhok's mother was a demon, and if I recall correctly, she was a Marilith (Sp?). Kaanyr eventually "disposed" of her himself, when he felt he was more powerful than she, and this is how he came into control of the Scoured Legion.
Mad Mage 06-05-07, 06:58 PM	-What exactly do you mean? Does he know he is a Cambion (Half-Fiend)? Yes, that he does. Do others? I'm sure this depends on who those others are. -Vhok's mother was a demon, and if I recall correctly, she was a Marilith (Sp?). Kaanyr eventually "disposed" of her himself, when he felt he was more powerful than she, and this is how he came into control of the Scoured Legion. Interesting. So, then, has his physical features ever been noted? If he was the child of a Marilith, I'd wonder if he'd have extra (though likely unusable) arms and a tail.
ClobberinTime 06-05-07, 07:29 PM	He is the child of a Marilith but has no extra arms that have been mentioned in any of the novels.
Lord Karsus 06-05-07, 07:34 PM	So, then, has his physical features ever been noted? Here, this might be a little helpful. As the son of a true tanar'ri and a human father, Kaanyr Vhok is a marquis cambion, though he looks different from other Realms-bound cambions. Most observers see only his light olive complexion and silver-gray hair and believe him to be an aging half-elf due to his pointed ears, but beneath Kaanyr's rich clothes and cloak, his chest, upper arms, and legs are covered with deeper green scales as his tanar'ri legacy. Thus far, though, any nontanar'ri who has seen Kaanyr's scales is dead, as Kaanyr plans to infiltrate certain power groups by using his looks as part of his disguise and cannot have his face well known or linked with Hellgate Keep for these plots to work well. Kaanyr Vhok is regal, bearing himself with an elegance and dignity that belies his chaotic blood. While he seems cultured and polite, his charm is purely for show, and his ruthlessness makes him capable of any thing that adds to his power. Some few quick-blooded members of the Legion complain he acts too slowly, since he rarely makes a move unless the odds are in his favor, but few protest loudly or long, as his methods bring victory in the small skirmishes around the Keep. Even his most loyal troops fail to understand that Kaanyr Vhok sees everyone around him as an enemy. His allies are merely adversaries with whom he shares a common goal and who are to be betrayed when they become liabilities.
Philalexandros 06-05-07, 10:48 PM	I like that description a tad better than the one from the War of the Spider Queen series. That's not to say I didn't like the other one, though; he was fickle, flamboyant, and a bit more of what I excpect of a Tanar'ri... but what Karsus posted seems more along the lines of a half-fiend who would play off a Drow civil war for his own gains. :)
Panurg 06-06-07, 04:25 AM	I also like the description LK mentioned, but I'm a bit confused, because in Underdark (126) he is mentioned as half fiend, not as cambion, nether cambion marquis. Also Power of Faerun (130) mentiones him as half fiend. As far as I know from 2ed Planescape and the threads around here, there is a difference between half fiend and cambion. It has something to do with the gender of the demon and the powers of the specific creature which results from this "partnership", they are also very different. So is this a mistake, or is half fiend the generic term for all creatures spawned by demons (So why would they call Fey'ri and Tanarukks as they do and Cambions not?), or is it just not very precisely? Thanks in advance ....:)
runestar 06-06-07, 07:40 AM	I dunno - cambion was even made its own unique race in that new adventure module...:P
BrennonGoldeye 06-06-07, 07:55 AM	I also like the description LK mentioned, but I'm a bit confused, because in Underdark (126) he is mentioned as half fiend, not as cambion, nether cambion marquis. Also Power of Faerun (130) mentiones him as half fiend. As far as I know from 2ed Planescape and the threads around here, there is a difference between half fiend and cambion. It has something to do with the gender of the demon and the powers of the specific creature which results from this "partnership", they are also very different. So is this a mistake, or is half fiend the generic term for all creatures spawned by demons (So why would they call Fey'ri and Tanarukks as they do and Cambions not?), or is it just not very precisely? Thanks in advance ....:) I'll try on this one. Fey'ri(elven) and Tanurukks(orcish) are rough equivalents of Tieflings(human). If memory serves me correctly a Cambion is the direct child of true Fiend and a human. Not sure if other 1st generation crossbreeds(Yugoloth/Ogre) would be considered Cambions or not. Kaanyr would also be a Marquis Cambion as his mother was in the top tier of demony nastiness. Hope that helped. :)
Red_Wizard 06-06-07, 08:30 AM	Human and Fiend mating creates a "Half-Fiend" As per the inherited template. This being said, a male half-fiend is called a Cambion, while a female half-fiend is titled Alu, or Alu fiend. Also of some note is that there are two breeds of Cambion. The Half-breed as Vhok is, and the 1/4 breed which is considered the True Cambion. This when a fiend, and a half fiend breed.
TheFallenWriter 06-06-07, 08:44 AM	In the new book that featured he and Alliisza, Gossamer Plains, although it would be considered canon, they were saying how his mother was a Marliith, as Clobbering Time, and no he did no inherit the extra arms, just the scaly hide, as well as when it came time for him to succeed his mother, the Scoured Legion.
BrennonGoldeye 06-06-07, 08:55 AM	Also of some note is that there are two breeds of Cambion. The Half-breed as Vhok is, and the 1/4 breed which is considered the True Cambion. This when a fiend, and a half fiend breed. Hmm. Interesting. The first mention of a Cambion was 1/2 and 1/2. Oh well.:)
Mad Mage 06-06-07, 12:30 PM	Thanks for the descriptions, folks. Paints a nifty picture. From the sound of it, though, it does rather trump the Half-(insert specific fiend) thing from the FC1 web enhancement. :(
GothicDan 06-06-07, 01:38 PM	Tanar'ri blood doesn't always run.. Right. A descent of a Pit Fiend isn't necessarily going to have any of the aspects of a Pit Fiend - thought it might. That's what happens when super-Chaotic creatures breed. Sometimes. ;)
ClobberinTime 06-06-07, 03:53 PM	Guys in 1+2ed when humans mated with a demon you got a Cambion, in game terms this was much more similar to the Cambion that got released with Expedition to the Demonweb. When 3ed came along they ditched the Cambion and came up with the Half-Fiend template (there weren't any templates before 3ed). The description of Kannyr Vhok in Hellgate Keep is the 2ed version. Personally I think making him a Cambion from the EttDWP makes more sense stylistically. Plus it ups his cr to what 17 or something.
BrennonGoldeye 06-06-07, 09:10 PM	And the original cambion was...........
Lord Karsus 06-06-07, 10:49 PM	And the original cambion was........... -Your momma? :D
GothicDan 06-06-07, 11:21 PM	I vote Iuz.
Dxzauvrinn 06-07-07, 12:42 AM	I'd make Vhok a marquis cambion, which was updated to 3rd in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits. That's what Vhok is mainly described as, and often referred to as in the novels anyway. He was also a true marquis cambion in 2ed. However, I'm not sure if he technically qualifies as a marquis cambion anymore since in 3rd edition I think a marquis cambion is only created when a demon prince and a half-fiend mate. Don't think Vhok's marilith mother qualified as a demon prince, though she may have very well been extremely powerful.
Dxzauvrinn 06-07-07, 12:56 AM	Hmmm...just read the cambion entry in Expedition to the Demonwebs again and it says "although the term 'cambion' is often applied to any humanoid half-fiend, a true cambion springs from a union between a powerful tanar'ri father and a planetouched mother - usually a tiefling.""The higher-ranking marquis and baron cambions result from the unions of demon lords or princes with female humanoid half-fiends." So, according to this, it would seem that Vhok is technically only a half-fiend human since his mother and was a demon and not his father. If he ever makes an appearance in my campaign though, I'm stating him as a marquis cambion. In the novels he has the look and the powers of one and it's what he was originally supposed to be.
Shemeska the Marauder 06-07-07, 04:46 AM	Cambions are half-fiends, but not all half-fiends are cambions. Cambions (and alu-fiends) are very specific subtypes of half-fiend. Initially in 3.x they completely ignored the 2e complexities regarding various half-breeds of fiend and mortal, and just had a generic half-fiend template, thus you see Vhok described sometimes as just a half-fiend and nothing more in detail beyond that. He is nonetheless however a marquis cambion if you want to be specific about his heritage.
Panurg 06-07-07, 07:03 AM	Thank you, ...
BrennonGoldeye 06-07-07, 01:31 PM	-Your momma? :D Besides her.....:P I vote Iuz. Ah, once again Dan shows why he has a right to be elitist!:D
MarkusTay63 06-07-07, 04:37 PM	I found THIS, (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9974/f_tree.htm) which is a decent reference. And then there is also Rip Van Wormer's work (http://www.geocities.com/ripvanwormer/bookoftieflings.html) on the subject. Half-Anything is always confusing. I'm still trying to figure out what source the 'Lings' are in... :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 06-07-07, 06:43 PM	Half-Anything is always confusing. I'm still trying to figure out what source the 'Lings' are in... :rolleyes: -I assume you'll include them in the Kara-Tur Re-Dux?