| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Larloch_the_Ultra_Lich09-08-07, 09:01 AM | Well, time for some SPOILERS from the Orc king prologue, set 100 years in the future. It is assumed all this is canon fact since it is in a published novel. Fun little intro aye? Let's put some perspective to it. 100 years in the future. Drizzt talks about "The disastrous joining of two worlds" while also talking about the rise of Netheril(again), which can only be refering to "Shadowrealm", in which the shadowvar bring back the netheril empire VIA takeover in sembia, and the shadowstorm was unleashed. Details are not yet out, but it should be a kickass event. Talking about how the spellplague decimated the entire world intrigued me. Seems like forgotten realms is about to have its biggest major catyclysm since Mystryl died and the floating cities all came crashing down, except on a global level. The dated year of spellplague is 1385, and the current Drizzt books are in 1369-1372. He talks about the entire world as if it has not recovered from spellplague. He talks of one of his dear dear friends dying in Luskan right before Luskan was destroyed, dying as his dreams came crashing down beside the bodies of 5000 victims. Not sure who he is speaking of. He talks about seeing the greatest cathedral ever built and watching it it come burning and crashing down. He also speaks of witnessing the rise of Ellistraee and hope of goodly drow, only to see it also disappear....(Sketchy) He mentions how the silver marches have flourished, yet Thay, Sembia, and Mulhorhand have not.......(Yikes. Implied destruction) |
| Zanan09-08-07, 09:27 AM | That elf lass in Darkvision has a nice run of lines ... The Swordswoman nodded. She supposed the desert was rife with interesting relics - she vaguely recollected that some old human civilization once claimed the desert as its own - before destroying itself. Faerūn had a way of eating civilizations, especially those that overreached themselves. In other words, human civilizations. DV, p. 208 |
| BadCatMan09-08-07, 09:31 AM | A reference, for those who need it: http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/Products/default.aspx?doc=959867200 Gah! It's all true! It's all so horribly true! |
| KnightoftheWhiteRose09-08-07, 09:39 AM | very interesting stuff! I'm going to have to pick up some of the newer novels and catch up on realm lore. my latest novel was the two swords. i have no idea what has happened since then. if anyone loves talking about the realms and would like to fill me in on the info including spoilers Via PM's i would be grateful. i am unable to get all the FR novels for atleast the next 5 years. (too many other novels i need to finish getting.) thanks for any and all replies. PS: this smiley is insane -> :invasion: [edit] thanks to badcatman for the link! after reading the chapter i have the impression that it was Catti-Bre who he was speaking of when he mentioned the death of a friend. he also has her bow. wulfgar would also not survive the time leap which is a sad thing, he is my favorite character in FR. Since Two Swords was the last novel i read, this new alliance tastes bad to me. i guess i just have to get used to it. i dont know whats going on but its gotta be bad if orcs are being considered saviors. i dont know who of the heroes of the hall would have survived. Regis is probably dead or nearly dead from old age. Bruenor was suppose to live only until his people were safe from Oboulds hoards then he would return to the halls of Moradin, so im interested to see what happens with that. Cadderly might still be alive because hes just bad arsed like that but danica probably didnt survive unless she became a master monk. (you know the kind that can live for a very long time.) The Bouldershoulder brothers should still be alive unless they fell in battle that i dont know about. i just cant believe Wulfgar's gone. i hope he died well. R.A.S is still a showboater with drizzt! lol. good stuff, cant wait to get the novel in paperback. |
| Andyr09-08-07, 09:57 AM | FYI, I've tried to extract information about the future of the Realms from the sample chapter mentioned in this thread, here: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13709260#post13709260 |
| GothicDan09-08-07, 11:28 AM | Yay, more death, destruction, and mayhem. Just what I've always wanted. (Not.) |
| MerrikCale09-08-07, 11:39 AM | Yay, more death, destruction, and mayhem. Just what I've always wanted. (Not.) Perhaps.But they really are destroying it all huh |
| Lirdolin09-08-07, 11:57 AM | After i read the chapter, i get the impression, that this is a future that 'might become if' some of the current Realm-Plots go horribly wrong (in other words: the heroes fail). For example: Netheril might rise again if the heros fail at the end of 'Anauroch', Eilistraee and the hope of the Good drow might rise and fall, if the heros fail in 'Acendancy of the Last'. 'What if' this Drizzt's 'present' depended on a decision he had to make in the past (current Realms present) and failed (talking to and later aiding a tyrant?). Maybe there will be a possibility (within the novels )to change this future from happening? Although R.A.Salvatore is a 'Realms-heavy-weight' as plots go, I doubt he can actually decide what happens the next 100 years and as some parts of this 'future' seem to touch near events, it's quite possible that novels/ adventures will touch them and I seriously doubt, that the heros will always fail "Oh, it's the merging of the two worlds event...the heros fail, read it in 'The Orc King'" "Spellplague? Ah forget it, we'll fail anyway...Remember? 'Orc King'..." "Oh s..t! Lloth wins in 'Acendancy of the Last' or some time later. Thanks for the spoiler 'Orc King'..." "We don't need to play Anauroch anymore...the bad guys win, netheril will rise again... 'Orc King' predicted it already." Best wishes Lirdolin |
| MarkusTay6309-08-07, 12:15 PM | Perhaps.But they really are destroying it all huhYup. To quote the Original Planet of the Apes - "Damn you! Damn you! You blew it up! You bastards!" It's even worse then I feared. BTW, this should have been in the 'General' Forum. |
| MarkHall09-08-07, 02:17 PM | Anyone else remember the World-Ending Adventures that came out at the end of 2e? "Die Vecna Die" and "The Apocalypse Stone"? |
| MarkusTay6309-08-07, 02:37 PM | I'm in the mood for some 60's music... I think I'll play Eve of Destruction. :cool: |
| Straploknight09-08-07, 04:03 PM | Hmmmm..... on one hand, I'm sad because a good friend is gone (faerun of 100 years ago), on the other what aperfect place for the ever bitter Soluafein Helviiryn (dang, he'd be almost 300 years old). I've always had a thing for the grim and gritty, when the good guys back are against the wall and are on the verge of be extinguished. |
| Zanan09-08-07, 06:24 PM | Yay, more death, destruction, and mayhem. Just what I've always wanted. (Not.) Well, maybe I will plant a few trees* and bushes for you next time I visit Toril?! :D (Yes, you guessed correctly, viper trees! :evillaugh: ) |
| GothicDan09-08-07, 08:02 PM | Zanan, you do realize that such comments really aren't even funny, because I'm a Sun Elf, right? ;) Trees are cool. I guess. As long as they're over there, outside of my quartz and marble tower... |
| MerrikCale09-08-07, 09:39 PM | Yup. To quote the Original Planet of the Apes - "Damn you! Damn you! You blew it up! You bastards!" It's even worse then I feared. well, I hope they aren't that dumb |
| Lord Karsus09-09-07, 10:04 AM | -I think Shar has another ally in me. I feel so nihilistic. I just want it to end. Please, no more. Just...no more... |
| GothicDan09-09-07, 10:34 AM | All praise Shar. |
| Diffan09-09-07, 11:31 AM | Maybe R.A.S's new trilogy will end with Drizzt waking up and realizing that it's still 1375 and it was all a dream, one big horrible dream? |
| arveiaturace_nartheling09-09-07, 12:35 PM | and her monks =-0 (please god let it still be 1375) |
| MarkusTay6309-09-07, 12:37 PM | If it works out that is was a Dream, then it would be cool if they spin it as 'prophesy' of things that might be. Then, armed with that fore-knowledge, Drizzt and the rest of the Realms can work to prevent what is going to happen. In my book, that sounds like a much more interesting campaign then a WoD wanna-be. Also, how is El going to visit Ed anymore? Is he going to visit Ed's Grandchildren instead? :confused: |
| GothicDan09-09-07, 12:43 PM | He'll just time travel! |
| Caltob09-09-07, 01:01 PM | Heil Shar! 100 years is alot of time to imrove the already existing fire-arms. |
| Diffan09-09-07, 02:20 PM | Heil Shar! 100 years is alot of time to imrove the already existing fire-arms. Drizzt with 50. cal handguns :rolleye2: |
| MerrikCale09-09-07, 03:08 PM | Maybe R.A.S's new trilogy will end with Drizzt waking up and realizing that it's still 1375 and it was all a dream, one big horrible dream? and he's in the shower with Bobby Ewing? |
| MarkusTay6309-09-07, 03:15 PM | Ooooohhh... Cool Family Guy reference... :D Drizzt with 50. cal handguns :rolleye2:Like the Two-gun Kid in Marvel comics? Neat! :dancin: |
| Caltob09-09-07, 03:29 PM | Drizzt with 50. cal handguns :rolleye2: More like matchlock or possibly wheellock guns. |
| MarkHall09-09-07, 03:35 PM | More like matchlock or possibly wheellock guns. According to Forgotten Realms Adventures, they've already got wheellocks... and a matchlock would be a step back from what they have right now. |
| Caltob09-09-07, 03:44 PM | According to Forgotten Realms Adventures, they've already got wheellocks... and a matchlock would be a step back from what they have right now. Flintlock's then, or possibly Percussion cap through that's 200 years after Flintlock(in real life that is). On an totaly different note 100 years means Errtu can try for revenge again. |
| Lord Karsus09-09-07, 04:36 PM | Drizzt with 50. cal handguns :rolleye2: -A fanboy's wet dream. |
| Suin Bahhar09-09-07, 05:41 PM | They're desperatly trying to destroy all your current characters by flinging RSE's so big they are bound to hit you. Say goodbye to gnomes, bards, red wizards, chosen, the list goes on, and on, and on... All so you can start a brand new 4e game at first level? |
| Diffan09-09-07, 05:57 PM | and he's in the shower with Bobby Ewing? lol, no Jarlaxle! |
| MarkusTay6309-09-07, 11:39 PM | They're desperatly trying to destroy all your current characters by flinging RSE's so big they are bound to hit you. Say goodbye to gnomes, bards, red wizards, chosen, the list goes on, and on, and on... All so you can start a brand new 4e game at first level?My god.... They even killed the Younglings... :weep: |
| Lord Karsus09-10-07, 12:02 AM | -Not...The Younglings...:( |
| Dark Wizard09-10-07, 12:08 AM | Drizzt with 50. cal handguns -A fanboy's wet dream. Drizzt dual wielded Gunblades. That's more badass than Squall Leonhart and Dante combined. The only video game character who may have hopes of defending against the new deadlier Drizzt is Leon S. Kennedy or possibly Mario and Sonic the hedgehog with the 2008 Olmypics mascots in a coordinated ambush. |
| MarkusTay6309-10-07, 12:15 AM | I think Deadpool and Bullseye could take him, especially if they got help from Elric, Dumbledore, and the Easter Bunny. ;) |
| Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir09-10-07, 08:13 AM | The only way Dumbledore will beat Drizzt with Gunblades is if he jumps up naked. Not even Drizzt can withstand something that wrinkly. |
| MarkusTay6309-10-07, 12:26 PM | Of course! The 'Old Prune Jitzu'... I saw that on Naruto.... :rolleyes: |
| Lord Karsus09-10-07, 12:48 PM | -I wonder what kinds of crazy things could go on on all of the other continents? |
| MarkusTay6309-10-07, 01:07 PM | I would love to see them 'glue' GH over where Anchorome is. It would actually fit well, and has dozens of islands off the east coast, which would work with Ed's original concept for Anchorome. I would also love to see Mystara's main campaign region (that whole world as developed, inside and out!) stuck in where Osse is. There are quite a few things in FR that came from that campaign (like Ed's 'Hin'), so it would be logical to fit it in. then we can have the three classic worlds on one map... wouldn't that be grand? :cloud9: Wizards, if your listening, why are you wasting such wonderful resources? The Mystara campaign was the only one that even approached FR with the amount of detail. Its time to pull out the old sources, blow the dust off, and give them back to us in 4e. Its a no-brainer, really. You OWN all that stuff, and FR fans want to know about the rest of FR, so use it and take our money!!! Everyone wins... And you can explain it all by tying it back into the destruction of Blackmoor.... ;) |
| Lord Karsus09-10-07, 03:47 PM | then we can have the three classic worlds on one map... wouldn't that be grand? :cloud9: -Well, I don't know the first thing about any other settings, for the most part, but wouldn't that all horribly clash? For instance, I recall that the Dark Sun Campaign Setting had no deities, or something to that effect. That really wouldn't translate well. -Copying and pasting specific NPCs or locales, such as what happened in Castle Spulzeer (Sp?) would be cool. Wizards, if your listening, why are you wasting such wonderful resources? -They're not, don't bother. ;) |
| The_King_in_Yellow09-10-07, 04:09 PM | It's the Realms Jim, but not as we know it... |
| MarkusTay6309-10-07, 04:30 PM | -Well, I don't know the first thing about any other settings, for the most part, but wouldn't that all horribly clash? For instance, I recall that the Dark Sun Campaign Setting had no deities, or something to that effect. That really wouldn't translate well. -Copying and pasting specific NPCs or locales, such as what happened in Castle Spulzeer (Sp?) would be cool.Dark Sun wouldn't work, but GH and Mystara were both High Fantasy settings, similar in flavor to FR, so they would mesh well (in fact, in 1e there were several NPCs that were regulars in both FR and GH, like Khelben). Eberron, on the other hand would not, because it's too 'pulpy'. Not that I don't like it, but the flavor is too different. Eberron would mesh well with Azeroth (WoW) or Iron Kingdoms, though - both are magi-tech worlds too. Maybe they will fool us altogether, and go outside of D&D - by bringing in a world from MtG. I recently was reading about one of those worlds and the stuff would make an excellent RPG. As long as we don't have to throw a silly red & white ball to do battle, and scream "ILLITHID! I choose You!" :P |
| GothicDan09-10-07, 04:31 PM | I wish I had been around to learn more about Mystara. |
| MarkusTay6309-10-07, 04:57 PM | Mystara was wonderful Dan - every so often they would release an 'Almanac' that would update the world another year, in the form of a periodical that natives would be reading. The lore was deep, the main continent well-fleshed out like Faerūn, and the rest of the world was 'known', with a few details being released about the other continents in every Almanac update. Many of FR's concepts were adapted from there, and thats where Ed first created his 'Hin' (He literally wrote the book). Each country got its own sourcebook... I could go on and on. There has never been anything quite like it, but FR is close (and has a more detailed history). Oh... and they had an Orc kingdom called Thar. ;) And 'Subterranean' Elves were albinos... just like Ed's. |
| GothicDan09-10-07, 05:07 PM | Why did it go away?! That sounds awesome. |
| MarkusTay6309-10-07, 05:16 PM | Two words - Forgotten Realms When that became the 'setting of choice', many people abandoned both Mystara and GH. GH continued to chug along in 2e, but only a couple of 2e products came out for Mystara. The problem was that OD&D was very incompatible with AD&D. Under the AD&D system, many of Mystara's concepts didn't even make sense (Elves and Dwarves were a class, not a race). GH was AD&D already, so the transition was easier. It could have been overhauled and retro-fitted, but it was easier just to pour all that talent and energy into TSR's new cashcow - Faerūn. |
| GothicDan09-10-07, 06:14 PM | Was the setting really THAT tied to the mechanics? I mean, couldn't you have just restatted high level Elves as high level Elf Wizard/Fighters? |
| MerrikCale09-10-07, 09:06 PM | Two words - Forgotten Realms When that became the 'setting of choice', many people abandoned both Mystara and GH. GH continued to chug along in 2e, but only a couple of 2e products came out for Mystara. The problem was that OD&D was very incompatible with AD&D. Under the AD&D system, many of Mystara's concepts didn't even make sense (Elves and Dwarves were a class, not a race). GH was AD&D already, so the transition was easier. It could have been overhauled and retro-fitted, but it was easier just to pour all that talent and energy into TSR's new cashcow - Faerūn. Some of the nations were not great. Though I always liked the Minothrad Guilds (I believe I have the name right). I had many of those sorcebooks. Caldwell did most of the cover art from what I remember. From what I recall that world was the Basic/Expert D&D world and never was adapted to AD&D. But then again we're talking a long time ago. Elves were all basic Fighter/Magic-Users and Dwarves were all basically Fighter. I drew a Gnome class they gave them some fighting and illusionist stuff. Those were the days |
| Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir09-10-07, 09:30 PM | ... You know what'd be an interesting project? Attempting to revive it for 4ed. It'd be time-consuming, though, tracking down the source material. |
| Lord_Madrigan09-10-07, 10:29 PM | Why do I smell Time Travel. The World has Gone to Hell the Only way to stop it is to go into the past and Prevent it from happening. I have a bad Feeling about this. :eek: |
| MarkusTay6309-10-07, 10:38 PM | Actually, Merricale, they did make the attempt to move it to AD&D. Several boxed sets came out, with something new -a CD of sound effects and music for use with the material. It was revolutionary - but it didn't catch on. Although a couple of Kingdoms were converted, along with two mighty Empires, most of the material remained OD&D. I don't think any of the Hollow World stuff made it over (the interior of the planet had its own seperate campaign), but they did try something new with the western portion of the main continent. The very original but short-lived Red Steel Campaign. I Used the maps, countries, and locations for my version of Anchorome (by rotating the maps ), but the campaign premise itself was a little too weird for me too get any players interested. It was like Gamma World meets High Fantasy - strange mutants everywhere. It's a shame, because if you just removed all of the Cinnabar rules the rest was an excellent Renaissance-period setting for a good swashbuckling campaign. Ah, well... Most of that is available for FREE now in the WotC downloads section under 'Savage Coast'. One last thing, technically, the Minorad guilds made it into FR. If you don't believe me, look at page 86 of Pirates of the Fallen Stars. ;) Was the setting really THAT tied to the mechanics? I mean, couldn't you have just restatted high level Elves as high level Elf Wizard/Fighters?They could have, but like I said, they were putting just about everything they had into FR at the time, which turned out, for us, to be a good thing in the long run. |
| MerrikCale09-10-07, 10:50 PM | Actually, Merricale, they did make the attempt to move it to AD&D. Several boxed sets came out, with something new -a CD of sound effects and music for use with the material. It was revolutionary - but it didn't catch on. I don't remember that at all. What was the names of the sets? Do you recall? I had many of the sourcebooks for OD&D. All of a sudden I feel a desire to dig them out. A 4e conversion of them would be interesting. And Star Frontiers was better than Gamma World |
| GothicDan09-10-07, 10:54 PM | My last ex swears by Gamma World. His opinion is more poignant than Merrik's in my mind, sadly. ;) |
| MerrikCale09-10-07, 10:56 PM | My last ex swears by Gamma World. His opinion is more poignant than Merrik's in my mind, sadly. ;) Why is that? Straight guy's opinion don't count huh? |
| Straploknight09-10-07, 11:07 PM | Mystara was wonderful Dan - every so often they would release an 'Almanac' that would update the world another year, in the form of a periodical that natives would be reading. The lore was deep, the main continent well-fleshed out like Faerūn, and the rest of the world was 'known', with a few details being released about the other continents in every Almanac update. Many of FR's concepts were adapted from there, and thats where Ed first created his 'Hin' (He literally wrote the book). Each country got its own sourcebook... I could go on and on. There has never been anything quite like it, but FR is close (and has a more detailed history). Oh... and they had an Orc kingdom called Thar. ;) And 'Subterranean' Elves were albinos... just like Ed's. The Gazateers? How bout the Red Steel expansion... cool stuff! |
| MerrikCale09-10-07, 11:08 PM | The Gazateers? How bout the Red Steel expansion... cool stuff! yes yes, the gazateers. I had many of them. Talk about blasts from the past I must say I don't recall much about Red Steel. What was that? |
| GothicDan09-10-07, 11:24 PM | Why is that? Straight guy's opinion don't count huh? Nope. Homosexuality is the new stage of evolution in a rapidly overpopulating planet. |
| MarkHall09-11-07, 12:03 AM | Nope. Homosexuality is the new stage of evolution in a rapidly overpopulating planet. You know, the Weekly World News made the arguement that homosexuality was responsible for the decline in sperm whale numbers. |
| ywhtptgtfo09-11-07, 12:06 AM | Nope. Homosexuality is the new stage of evolution in a rapidly overpopulating planet. That's bad evolutionary genetics, Daniellynn. More appropriately, you should say it is a feedback mechanism... although there are other... 'more violent' feedback mechanisms out there already :) |
| MarkusTay6309-11-07, 12:35 AM | I could so easily make a joke about that (sperm Whales AND gays?), but I'm far too mature. :P If thats evolution, I'm staying a Neanderthal. ;) I don't remember that at all. What was the names of the sets? Do you recall? I had many of the sourcebooks for OD&D. All of a sudden I feel a desire to dig them out. A 4e conversion of them would be interesting. And Star Frontiers was better than Gamma WorldThe Red Steel, Savage baronies, Glantri: Kingdom of magic, and Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure boxed sets. In the Glantri box set I have a CD entitled Mark of Amber, also with the Mystara logo on it, but it did not come with that product - I'm not sure where it's from but there is also an adventure booklet too (also not listed on the back of the box). All of those products also have a unique TSR logo - A Dragon's Head encircled by a CD. To be honest with you, the only one that isn't still shrink-wrapped is the Glantri one, so I never even tried out the others. :( Wish I knew where tha Mark of Amber adventure came from, though. :thinks: To keep this ON TOPIC (before we get shut down) - The more I look through all of the old stuff, the more I wish it would make it into 4e. There are even some non-nation sourcebooks covering a flying Goblin City (product: Top Ballista), the Sea Races, and one all about faerie creatures (Tall Tales of the Wee Folk). Mystara even had a sourcebook for fey - something we FR fans have been begging for for years. A lot of good Intellectual Property just laying around wasted, WotC. |
| DarkSongKnight09-11-07, 12:35 AM | You know, the Weekly World News made the arguement that homosexuality was responsible for the decline in sperm whale numbers. Thats certainly... interesting. But I don't see anything new about homosexuality. Its not like its a sudden development or something. Now, the way it is receiving mass media coverage may be new... And to steer this back on topic... I'm fairly nervous about what Drizzt meant when he saw the rise of the goodly drow, and then said they were "gone!" I'm not sure if that means that Eilistraee and her followers achieve a great success, but ultimately fail, or if they merely rise is numbers and then something bad happens... |
| ikki09-11-07, 03:41 AM | i know this may be waaay off subject. but i noticed people that are like 30 play this game. if you're over 18 and u play this... it's just kinda pathetic. some dad had one of these thingys!! wtf.. go take care of you're kids!!! omg.. people like that are just plain weird! and they need to get a life. lol seriously..... Has no one taught this whippersnapper to be respectful of elders? |
| Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir09-11-07, 08:45 AM | I dunno, but I love the fact that D&D (and MTG, and some other games) are shared by an older population and a younger population. Do you know how many friends I have at Friday Night Magic that have children? Are out of university? It's insane, the amount. And I play D&D with a bunch of 15-16 year olds. And my 40-year-old father (or he was at the time) is the one who taught me how to play. Just to show. If it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be on these forums. And the world would be a better place. |
| Lord Karsus09-11-07, 10:30 AM | i know this may be waaay off subject. but i noticed people that are like 30 play this game. if you're over 18 and u play this... it's just kinda pathetic. some dad had one of these thingys!! wtf.. go take care of you're kids!!! omg.. people like that are just plain weird! and they need to get a life. lol seriously..... omg.. you need an education. lol seriously..... |
| MarkusTay6309-11-07, 11:02 AM | I'm 44, and I taught my sons to play (along with many other neighborhood kids). They mostly play with their friends now, but I try to get together with them whenever possible for a game. Ones 19, the other 16. I have two younger sons who I plan on playing with eventually as well. I think giovanna needs to go back to his Pokémon cards, and leave the big kids alone. ;) |
| Red_Wizard09-11-07, 11:48 AM | Huh? 44? never would have thought. I'm sure it has been brought up somewhere around here, but I'd assumed 20 something. Ah well, food for thought I suppose. :P As to gio-tard, people like this really irk me, to put it lightly. Guaranteed he sits at home more than a few nights a week and plays any number of PS2, PC, or Xbox titles. He probably even has a WOW account. Yet for some people like this one are too damn simple to draw a fairly easy connection. Thats whats really pathetic. Well, that and of course trolling random internet boards, to take the time to sign up, only to make a single pointless post like that one. All this being said, it's the BS Hasbro is doing to this game that gives people like this the impression that DnD is solely a game for kids. Maybe they should grab a copy of the BoVD sometime, and tell me how many children can comprhend what is really in that. |
| MarkusTay6309-11-07, 12:39 PM | Yes, four years ago I officially became a 'codger', and in a few more years I will enter my 'Geezer' stage. ;) BTW, I neither look nor act my age, so that helps. :dancin: And if it wasn't for guys my age scripting proggies in basic back in HS in the 70's, the kids these days wouldn't have video games. Space Invaders - a timeless classic. :D And I also have three WoW accounts, one for me and each of my older boys. My nine year old is begging me for one now.... You're only as old as you feel. :P |
| Red_Wizard09-11-07, 01:22 PM | You're only as old as you feel. :P Hear, Hear, I'll drink to that. :D. I don't think you're ever to old to enjoy yourself, or do anything others deem "childish". More the loss for them, sitting about pruning and trying to be "cool" Just means more fun for me. ;) |
| Karsus the Mad09-11-07, 02:08 PM | i know this may be waaay off subject. Yup. but i noticed people that are like 30 play this game. Yup. Even the designers are of a mature age. Weird eh? if you're over 18 and u play this... What if you post on these boards also? it's just kinda pathetic. Yeah. It is. So is posting about how pathetic something is. some dad had one of these thingys!! I've had lots of these thingys!! They sell for 25 cents at the local store. They're lemon flavored. wtf.. go take care of you're kids!!! I'm childless I'm afraid....well...at least I'm not aware of any children, and given my typical sexual preference, I doubt I have any. Btw...it's not "you're"....it's "your"...<cough> omg.. Your god? Who do you worship? I personally have a fetish for Loviator and Gond....just somehow kinky.... people like that are just plain weird! Aye. It's even more weird to point it out. and they need to get a life. Apparently they have more of a life than someone that sadly feels the need to point out to other people that they need a life. Meh. Sounds like something attempted and failed to achieve in life. Potty training maybe. lol seriously..... Very serious I suppose. Heh...hehehe...hahaha.... |
| GothicDan09-11-07, 02:11 PM | <3 Mr. The Mad. Markus: Does your older son... Wrestle? *Nudge, wink.* |
| Bonzai09-11-07, 03:18 PM | Some wild speculation on my part but, The greatest cathedral in the world? Most likely the Spirit Soaring. Which implies that something terrible happens to Cadderley and friends. Dear friend, and Luskan? My guess is Wolfgar's Daughter. Wasn't her mother now maried to a noble house there? The events regarding shade, Sembia, Thay, and the Drow are all probably explained in the current trilogies that should be finishing up around 4th edition. |
| MarkusTay6309-11-07, 04:09 PM | There are actually more important cathedrals, but since we are now entering "The Age of Salvatore", it would be his ego to consider his personal creations to be the best. And here I was hoping that Drizzt would grab Danica and go and help Jarlaxle (for whatever bizzare reason), and we were going to see the ultimate smack-down between Kane and Danica (I think she would get her as$ kicked). <3 Mr. The Mad. Markus: Does your older son... Wrestle? *Nudge, wink.*Here is my Myspace (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=24491742). If you look at my (small) friends list, the 6th picture is of my 9 and 16 yr olds. The 7th picture is of my 19 yr old. He is 6'4 and 300 lbs! He is very VERY good at wrestling... He has a mohawk now... he needs to post new pics. :devil: |
| Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir09-11-07, 04:22 PM | 44!? And you put up with a gerbil!?!?!?!?!?! Oh dear. Now I know what D&D is doing to my brain. :D -gerbil drinks martini and starts to get tipsy- |
| GothicDan09-11-07, 04:42 PM | Nice! |
| danielmayer09-11-07, 06:11 PM | yes yes, the gazateers. I had many of them. Talk about blasts from the past I must say I don't recall much about Red Steel. What was that? He meant Red Arrow & Black Steel, for sure ;) Or did I miss a box/book? :eek: The very best large scale and further scalable inter-kingdom-war described in any D&D-book, afair. All Mystara books were my favorites. I'd like a revival of them! I especially liked the idea of getting (!) XP for developing spells, not spending them for research/casting. Quite silly for wizards, imho. And "Minothrad" Guilds they were called -sigh- that were times of really good modules and campaigns. |
| MarkusTay6309-11-07, 08:09 PM | Red Steel was an entire Campaign setting, set on the same planet as the known World and the Hollow World Campaigns (Mystara). The premise was that there was a magical substance (Cinnabryl) that caused mutations to everything in the region (similar to Faezres). The only way to keep from mutating was to consume minor amounts of Cinnabar dust (I guess it was like building up a resistance). People who didn't take any and continued to mutate would become 'legacies' (multi-powered beings, that usually looked very bizarre). It was original, but was too 'niche' to catch on. It also had guns and a swashbuckling/old west feel to it. 44!? And you put up with a gerbil!?!?!?!?!?!I'll just call you Lemmiwinks.... :devil: Nice!Down boy... |
| Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir09-11-07, 08:41 PM | LEMMIWINKS!? :blink: :shifty: |
| MerrikCale09-11-07, 08:48 PM | Nope. Homosexuality is the new stage of evolution in a rapidly overpopulating planet. I guess it wouldn't be overpopulated for long |
| Old Sage09-11-07, 09:47 PM | but i noticed people that are like 30 play this game.Yes. if you're over 18 and u play this... it's just kinda pathetic.I've been with the Realms since I was 9. I've seen no reason since that time, to disassociate myself with what is, essentially, a hobby. wtf.. go take care of you're kids!!!I find this insulting. I've one young daughter, named Narnra. And she's cared for quite well by loving parents. I'd appreciate it if you'd take such remarks elsewhere. people like that are just plain weird!People like what? Just because some of us my choose not to party, drink, dance, or model [according to your stated occupation and interests/hobbies]... doesn't make us weird. We're simply different. Accept it and move on. and they need to get a life.I do. My life consists of my family, my work, my writing, my reading, and my music. seriously.....Apparently. |
| MarkHall09-11-07, 11:04 PM | Am I free to agree with Giovanni until Saturday, since I turn 30 on Friday? ;-) |
| Eli_the_Tanner09-11-07, 11:44 PM | Ooh dear, wrong post, wrong thread, wrong time....I must be going senile. |
| creyzi4zb1209-12-07, 12:03 AM | Ha!! I told u that Obould was a good guy....Mwahahahahaha!!! Obould VI!! OMG!!RAS just made my day! |
| SmartPaladin09-12-07, 12:04 AM | i know this may be waaay off subject. but i noticed people that are like 30 play this game. if you're over 18 and u play this... it's just kinda pathetic. some dad had one of these thingys!! wtf.. go take care of you're kids!!! omg.. people like that are just plain weird! and they need to get a life. lol seriously..... And just think... Someday, Gio will breed. Anyone else lost hope for mankind? |
| Eli_the_Tanner09-12-07, 12:45 AM | i know this may be waaay off subject. but i noticed people that are like 30 play this game. if you're over 18 and u play this... it's just kinda pathetic. some dad had one of these thingys!! wtf.. go take care of you're kids!!! omg.. people like that are just plain weird! and they need to get a life. lol seriously..... Ahhh, the refreshing voice of youth. I wonder why they chose this thread, this setting, this forum, this site...makes you wonder - maybe there is a God out there.:thinks: |
| MarkusTay6309-12-07, 12:55 AM | I think he was referring to his own father, and he was so busy playing D&D that he wasn't watching his kid, who then fell on his head and recieved permanent brain damage. I guess I'd be pretty sore if my daddy did that to me, and I'd hate D&D as well. Or perhaps its one of the Eberron kiddies who are just jealous because WE are getting all the love this time out. ;) |
| Gallameed09-12-07, 01:47 AM | Drizzt dual wielded Gunblades. That's more badass than Squall Leonhart and Dante combined. The only video game character who may have hopes of defending against the new deadlier Drizzt is Leon S. Kennedy or possibly Mario and Sonic the hedgehog with the 2008 Olmypics mascots in a coordinated ambush. 000-83R! |
| creyzi4zb1209-12-07, 07:47 AM | Does that mean that Drizzt is now epic? Well it is 100 + years after all. I wont be surprised if Drizzt comes up as a lvl 32 drow in 4e. |
| Rizogue09-12-07, 10:04 AM | OMG, in the other topic, somebody posted that the merging of two worlds would be FR and Eberron, now I see it suggested that it's Magic the Gathering?! For the love of Ao, No! You're trying to kill me here. And for the record, I'm 33, with a very well cared for six year old son. Instead of sitting in front of a TV and watchig reality shows, or CSI crap (don't we have enough sick tards out there doing unspeakable stuff on the news for some think tank of writers to sit around thinking up new fictional ones?) - I read, write, DM, and play (though too little of the latter lately) roleplaying games. Forum trolls.... I will have my Grand History and Orc King soon enough to try to figure it all out then. For now, I still have some catching up to do on stuff that's already printed in on my to-read shelf as it is. :P |
| Lord Karsus09-12-07, 12:59 PM | As to gio-tard, people like this really irk me, to put it lightly. Guaranteed he sits at home more than a few nights a week and plays any number of PS2, PC, or Xbox titles. He probably even has a WOW account. Yet for some people like this one are too damn simple to draw a fairly easy connection. -He's a she....;) Ha!! I told u that Obould was a good guy....Mwahahahahaha!!! Obould VI!! OMG!!RAS just made my day! -You know, I actually did think of you, Creyzi, when I read that. :) -And, look, Gallameed is back. But, is he insane is the question? |
| MarkusTay6309-12-07, 01:08 PM | So this just proves our point - 4e FR is being written for people like creyzi. :rolleyes: Don't get me wrong, at least she was intelligent enough NOT to follow the mindless lemmings into Eberron, but instead followed the path of enlightenment that is FR. :cloud9: And besides, we NEED more girls in this hobby.... |
| MerrikCale09-12-07, 01:14 PM | I'm 44, you got this 37 year old |
| MerrikCale09-12-07, 01:17 PM | And just think... Someday, Gio will breed. thats unlikely |
| Red_Wizard09-12-07, 01:53 PM | -He's a she....;) *Quickly adds the "S" * Shhhhh, my rant stands. ;) :P |
| Lord Karsus09-12-07, 01:55 PM | Shhhhh, my rant stands. ;) :P -Yes, everything else was on the money. |
| GothicDan09-12-07, 07:14 PM | I'm only 22, but I won't even be out of SCHOOL until I'm 27. And even then, I imagine I'd continue taking courses on whatever topics interest me. School going implies you're still developing your place in the 'adult world,' or something. So as long as you're in school, you're always under 30. |
| ravennight09-12-07, 09:46 PM | Sorry I'm just getting into this thread, but I couldn't help it when I saw the title. I haven't read the chapter yet, just downloaded it, but I find the idea tremendously exciting. I feel like time has been moving really slow in the realms and I for one like the idea of major shake-ups. Also...nothing lasts forever so alot of things are bound to change in 100 years. I wish there were more canon sources about it. |
| 1 ton ghost09-12-07, 10:52 PM | just jumping in here as well and i am both surprised and yet blase in that i kinda' expected something like this to happen. that is, the 4th Ed check is in the mail. they need a delivery system (like a nuke if you will) to help give it some punch cuz' you've seen all the ppl on here that are very very disgruntled about the horrible press release, secret playtesting, and all the crap that goes w/ it. the big FR action is not unlike a smokescreen. plus it is an enticement to buy more FR stuff. they did say it was going to be the flagship, yes? first 4th ed world and all that. God, i can't keep up w/ all the FR novels. it's not like when i was a kid and knocking out Dragonlance books all the time. finally read Dune, some Chuck Palanhinuk books (Fight Club, Haunted, etc.), and my personal favorite from last year, World War Z (Max Brooks). too many of the FR authors seem, plz forgive me, hackish now. Salvatore's shot his load and looks like he's gonna' be milking Drizzt for years. still, i appreciate all you guys posting this stuff. |
| Lord Karsus09-13-07, 01:03 AM | too many of the FR authors seem, plz forgive me, hackish now. -Paul Kemp is a fairly new FR, but he certainly seems to be the next 'up-and-coming' thing. |
| MarkusTay6309-13-07, 02:58 AM | Salvatore's shot his load and looks like he's gonna' be milking Drizzt for years.:rofl: There are a few things that sound good about the new Realms, and I might even enjoy running it. The only reason why I am leary about 'buying into' it is because I know it will fail, and I will be stuck with books of a setting no one wants to play in. Why will it fail you ask? Because it will alienate most of the oldtimers, and draw in very few newcomers. If it's not a blockbuster out-of-the-gate, Hasbro will jst scrap the whole line. I happen to know a way that 'might' save it (and keeping it the way THEY want), but they don't pay me, they pay people who pretend to know what gamers want. |
| Rizogue09-13-07, 10:19 AM | This quote from Publisher's Weekly should not be overlooked here: Celebrating his 20th year as one of Salvatore's most popular Forgotten Realms characters, dark elf Drizzt Do'Urden whirls into action in this first installment of a new trilogy. As the Year of Wild Magic arrives in the Silver Marches, bloody conflicts rage between Mithral Hall dwarves, Kingdom of Many Arrows orcs, Moonwood elves and Silverymoon wizards. Recently widowed barbarian Wulfgar must wade through the political morass to undertake a life-changing journey, aided by Drizzt's brave wife, Catti-brie. Meanwhile, archeologists are unearthing an ancient city where orcs and dwarves once lived side by side in peace. Drizzt and dwarven king Bruenor Battlehammer wonder if such peace can be achieved again, but half-orc/half-ogre Grguch, King Obould VI of the orcs and angry dark elf Tos'un Armgo won't go down without a fight. Salvatore mixes neatly choreographed battles with philosophical musings from self-styled renegade soul Drizzt, lending a little depth to an otherwise straightforward hack-and-slash adventure. This would indicate that the sample Prelude to the book is a glimpse into the far future of the 'New Realms'. Showing us that this Spellplague that will be ringing in this new edition will surely be a RSE beyond measure. It suggests that as a result of the 'coming darkness', Thay, Mulhorand, and Sembia don't fare as well as The Silver Marches (which he says has flourished due to some heroic acts of one of the Obould kings and Bruenor). It does not say that they were destroyed, as it says Luskan and the mentioned Cathedral were, only that they didn't fare as well in the 'swirl of destruction'. I presume we are missing a lot by not having this followed by one of Mr. Salvatore's signature 'Musings from the Journal of Drizzt', which I am sure directly follows this Prelude at the beginning of Chapter One, and clears it up for us before we begin adventures where humans like Cattie and Wulfgar are clearly alive. So let's not assume that this Prelude is our first glimpse into the 4th Edition FRCS, but more of a carefully placed morsel for us to get ourselves riled up over, ensuring that we all rush out to grab this thing and see what the Hells is really going on. I have my assumptions, and The Rise of Netheril is right there in the very heart of it all. These Supermods (One with the subtitle "The tearing of the Weave"... ) are setting the stage for it, as did the Archwizards series, and a few others. Worlds will collide, a world of Shadow, and one of Light. And we can rest assured the swirl of destruction from that rising darkness will be noted by all - indeed. So there it is: :twocents: |
| Lord_Madrigan09-13-07, 11:51 AM | Some wild speculation on my part but, The greatest cathedral in the world? Most likely the Spirit Soaring. Which implies that something terrible happens to Cadderley and friends. Could Be That or CandleKeep Got Wiped off the Map. |
| Bonzai09-13-07, 01:04 PM | Could Be That or CandleKeep Got Wiped off the Map. I lean towards Spirit Soaring, simply because it was R.A.S.'s creation, and that it was supposed to be some magnificent and awe inspiring Cathedral (which Drizzt has seen before). It was raised with the divine aid of Denier. So it fits with the description of "the greatest Cathedral in the world". |
| MarkusTay6309-13-07, 03:56 PM | I would totally agree. Only RAS would call one of his 'inventions' the "greatest" anything. The lore in the books speak of MANY that are grander, larger, and better equipped. Could Be That or CandleKeep Got Wiped off the Map.Oh... MY... GOD!!! :eek: Bite your tongue.... :P |
| Lord Karsus09-13-07, 04:23 PM | I would totally agree. Only RAS would call one of his 'inventions' the "greatest" anything. The lore in the books speak of MANY that are grander, larger, and better equipped. -Well, giving Salvatore credit, here, Drizzt may simply think that the Spirit Soaring was the greatest cathedral out there. It was all written from the Drows POV, anyway... |
| MarkusTay6309-13-07, 04:56 PM | True, aside from whatever is in Silverymoon, and some Dwarven alters in Mithral Hall, have many 'churches' could he have seen? You know, you just made me feel good on a broader scale. Written from Drizzt's POV, hmmmm? I suppose, when one lives soley in "The North", then all of your perceptions will be based off of what you see going on around you. Hopefully, thats the case...... :rolleyes: |
| Lord Karsus09-13-07, 05:06 PM | You know, you just made me feel good on a broader scale. -My one good deed for the day is done, now...:angelhide |
| MarkusTay6309-13-07, 05:11 PM | Yeah, I grabbed at whatever little 'perks' I can these days; I seem to have developed a bad case of '4e Blues'. :( |
| Straploknight09-13-07, 09:54 PM | Giovanni is just finding an outlet for his frustration, imagine his suprise when his sister, girlfriend, and mom were all bagged by a geek gamer... at the same time! |
| Lord Karsus09-14-07, 10:19 AM | Giovanni is just finding an outlet for his frustration, imagine his suprise when his sister, girlfriend, and mom were all bagged by a geek gamer... at the same time! -Again, he is a she! |
| Andyr09-14-07, 10:34 AM | -Paul Kemp is a fairly new FR, but he certainly seems to be the next 'up-and-coming' thing. I think he's definitely among the best FR authors. |
| Straploknight09-14-07, 10:56 AM | -Again, he is a she! Bah, this is the he-man woman haters lodge. No women allowed! It's inconcievable that a woman could sneak in here. Besides everybody knows trolls are..... man, are troll women really that ugly??????? |
| Lord Karsus09-14-07, 11:19 AM | No women allowed! It's inconcievable that a woman could sneak in here. -But, some of our contributing, well-established posters are women... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-14-07, 12:29 PM | -But, some of our contributing, well-established posters are women... Such as yours truly.:bravo: |
| Straploknight09-14-07, 12:45 PM | I kid, I kid... I know D&D isn't the sole province of males, nor are these boards, just poking fun at the fact I didn't know Giovanni was a female name, cause you know, I don't speak canadian and stuff like that. |
| 1 ton ghost09-14-07, 12:46 PM | Such as yours truly.:bravo: let's not forget modest;) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-14-07, 12:52 PM | let's not forget modest;) Modest, what's that?;) |
| MarkusTay6309-14-07, 02:06 PM | Canadian is a language? Last time I was up there I got along just fine, so I must be bilingual. :D |
| Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir09-14-07, 10:03 PM | Markus is asking to get smacked in the teeth. Canada pwns. All the people left in the dark after 4th should all just have online 3rd campaigns. :P And in anyone develops a case of the Blues, we're all to be notified immediately. Several minutes of people going into a "witty" phase often solve such a problem. |
| Lord Karsus09-14-07, 10:48 PM | Such as yours truly.:bravo: -Yeah, like you. :shifty: -Hey, howsabout you and me go hit the town in Sigil. I know this little place... |
| SmartPaladin09-15-07, 01:38 AM | -Yeah, like you. :shifty: -Hey, howsabout you and me go hit the town in Sigil. I know this little place... "There once was a lass down in Sigil, who kept her heart in a box, the key you don't see, it comes with a fee, tatata." -Valen Shadowbreath (Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark) What? your line about Sigil just reminded me of the song, that's all! :P |
| Kelros09-15-07, 02:03 AM | Hmmm, no how about all this terrible stuff happens with Drizzt, and then all of a sudden Artemis Entreri Wakes up in bed with Calihye, and she says "what is it honey?" and he says "I just had the wierdest dream...about Drizzt" No but really It better not be 100 years in the future with Wulfgar dead and Eilestraee destroyed and all that **** when I open that novel. :mad: |
| MarkusTay6309-15-07, 02:26 AM | Now isn't that the wierdest part of all? Eilistraee AND Lolth are both alive in the future... when clearly only one was NOT supposed to live through the Sava game. Boy, did they fool us. They killed everyone else instead. :rolleyes: So Sigil's the new 'Hot Spot' for ex-FRers? :cool: I'll be there, just let me get my 'Planar' on... I'm not used to having four legs anymore... Need to get serious for a minute (sorry) - Does this mean that ALL Shadoweave casters are now the ONLY casters still able to do their Mojo? Thats not dark... thats the end of life as we know it... :allalone: |
| SmartPaladin09-15-07, 05:49 AM | Need to get serious for a minute (sorry) - Does this mean that ALL Shadoweave casters are now the ONLY casters still able to do their Mojo? Thats not dark... thats the end of life as we know it... :allalone: Them and divine casters. Well, those who deities are still breathing(?) anyway. Though there probably are a few non-shadow weave casters still around, it's just their spell casting is a little touch and go. Some times it goes off with out a hitch, sometimes it just fizzles, and sometimes you go BOOM with everything and everyone else in a 5-10 mile radius. |
| BadCatMan09-15-07, 06:22 AM | Don't forget the Psions, who have the luxury of having their own personal weave-analogue free from the machinations of any god. Of course, their success depends on whenever WotC decides to release 4.0 Psionics, and when and if they decide to re-release Psionics to FR. After all, it was eradicated in the early days of the 2nd and 3rd editions. |
| Rizogue09-15-07, 12:58 PM | Wow... Are we all jumping to conclusions here? We know a Spellplague happens, whatever that may turn out to be. We do know that a whole lot of people died, but the Weave of Magic is not gone, I just think characters will be accessing it differently. This is based on the fact that the 4E Devs have said that spellcasters will no longer become baggage because their portfolio of available spells has been spent. These new Supomodules are about followers of Shar and Cyric coming together to overthrow the domain of Mystra. We also see reference to the rise of Netheril from the Plane of Shadow. We also know from the Archwizards series that they are prone to pulling entire areas into their plane, and replacing them with a little bit of their plane in the same place in Faerun-proper. The drow city of Chaulssin in the Underdark exists in both planes, with a huge rift of Shadow covering a bottomless chasm there. We are basing these assumptions on Orc King, yet in that Prelude chapter, there is obviously an elven wizard casting arcane spells that is not using the shadow weave there. I'm just trying to emphasize that our conclusion that Faerun will become this dark place now may be based on some incorrect speculation here. Not that I would mind a little more darkness. :evillaugh: Change is in the air, we can all feel it. I think we should be a little more optimistic that events aren't going to be quite as dire as some are assuming until we have a little more than a spoiler Prelude chapter to a book that seems contradictory to the content of the book itself (see my post on the previous page) |
| Markustay09-15-07, 02:01 PM | Actually, we do know the Weave collapses, as per GHotR, which causes the Spellplague. With the weave gone, don't forget, gods CAN NOT grant spells to their followers. I thought this was established when Mystra denied the weave to Cyric. That means NO divine magic for awhile either. Think about it- NO resurrection, NO healing, Priests being powerless and churches burned, Paladins will become targets for evil types wanting vengeance... The poo-poo's really gonna hit the fan with this one... |
| Andyr09-15-07, 02:19 PM | Perhaps without a Weave people have to learn to tap into other sources of magic, the same way casters in all the other Weaveless settings do. Perhaps the Shadow Weave is likewise destroyed (if it is something like the holes between the Weave, or the shadow of the Weave)--which might not make Shar too angry, as she may not need it as a tool with Mystra gone. |
| 1 ton ghost09-15-07, 02:33 PM | this is still just heresay and conjecture. salavatore doesn't have cart blanche to do whatever the Hell he wants. he's an author, not a game designer. heavy duty evil and unheaval are the meat and potatos of most fantasy settings. i mean, it's gospel. especially when parent company is going through a "transitional phase" to put it nicely...ie)"let's make mo' $ w/ a new edition, of course we'll need some new plot hooks and premises to help jump start it." they do this thing in EVERY MAJOR CAMPAIGN setting as a point of principle. i mean, it's a system of dynamic opposites really: some cataclysmic event, long dark times...the balance must swing the other way of course. this fosters heroes (particularly the new 4th Ed. variety) leaping to the foray to set things back to the "way they used to be" and restore the balance. don't mean to reduce my choice fantasy world, but it's formulaic on so many works of fiction. if the game is defaulted by heroes rising to the occaision, there must be a colorful backdrop of antagonism to motivate them, otherwise, we'd all hit a dungeon, get rich as Hell, then retire cuz' it's scary and now we have enough gold for a nice family, mutual fund, and that jaguar we've always wanted. -Faerun; what was the Time of Troubles but another catastrophic event that scared the Hell out of everyone? some gods die, hereos do their thing, stuff goes back to normal -Dragonlance; easiest to define. it's fleshed out by planetary chaos and deific problems. war of the lance, chaos thing, etc. -Ravenloft; Grand Conjunction, etc. Star Wars, Dune, LotR, etc. etc. etc. big problems, evil/treachery, must be solved by force of arms of ppl w/ good will/integrity. |
| Rizogue09-15-07, 02:38 PM | Well, as one who doesn't have access to the GHotR before the release date, though I work at a company that owns a major book store (A point I find to be BS, by the way - but that's for a different discussion) - I won't know how this collapse of the Weave is described until Tuesday. I really don't think it's going to be: "Welcome to 4th Edition, you have no spells - Divine of Arcane." But as I said in my post, it will just need to be accessed differently than we are used to. Perhaps it will be sporadic, or somewhat less controlled than before, but for the Realms to go without magic entirely again for any length of time is pretty hard to digest. |
| Fabius Maximus09-15-07, 06:03 PM | If the Weave collapses, then Shadow Casters will have more problems. 1. The Shadow Weave is exactly that: the shadow of the Weave. How can a shadow exist if the thing that casts the shadow is gone? 2. If the (Shadow) Weave is gone, shadow casters will not only loose the ability to cast their spells, they will also loose the advantage they had on the Weave casters. I don't think the Weave will collapse, though. Either another Mystra will come into existence, or another god(dess) will take over and change the conditions of spellcasting. I'd bet on the latter and say that Selūne will be the goddess of magic. |
| GothicDan09-15-07, 06:51 PM | The Weave infuses all of reality in Abeir-Toril, to a point. It adds 'life' to things (not Positive Energy), makes it more vibrant, more MAGICAL. It allows people to channel Raw Magic. Only Karsus (you know, that 41st level Arcanist that stole Mystryl's power) was able to even EXPERIMENT with Heavy Magic. To insinuate that any remotely significant number of spellcasters could 'just learn' how to cast spells in a different way is, to me, absurd. To me, it's like saying: Okay. Gravity is gone. Now, re-explain all of Physics. We've actually been told, first hand, what would happen to Abeir-Toril if the Weave was destroyed: all hell would break lose. There's only a handful of canon NPCs would could still potentially utilize magic. We know that the one Archlich in PoF (can't remember her name - the Selunite one, I think?) had been able to craft a sort of "mini-Weave" that allowed her to sustain lower level magical reality within her keep. I imagine the more arcane of the Chosen of Mystra could sustain such "mini-Weaves" as well, given proper warning, as could Larloch, and a few others. Probably Amlaruil and some Elven High Magi, some Halruaans and a few Thayans, any left over Imaskari... To me, this would weed out almost all spellcasters except the most powerful and ancient ones. That to me is actually much cooler. Though, you know who I could see somehow doing something utterly astounding in this? Ioulaum. That's the prompt. Go wild with what COULD happen with the Weave collapsing, and a 41st level Wizard, 20th level Psion's possible actions. I'd love to actually see him as a god, moreso than the likes of Elminster or the Seven. His personality is just perfect for it, and most of all, we haven't seen his mortal idiocy in novels. |
| MarkusTay6309-15-07, 08:14 PM | Thats the merging of two worlds! FR and FutuRama!!! :eek: It will be like the attack of the giant flying Brains all over again! (I KNEW Zoiberg was an Illithid!) |
| GothicDan09-15-07, 08:18 PM | Ooohh. I like Futurama AND FR. That MUST mean it'll be good. (I already hate it.) |
| MarkusTay6309-15-07, 09:22 PM | Actually, its PERFECT! Bender and the other 'bots become the Warforged, Amy's a Shou diciple, the Prof. becomes an Artificer, Leila and Zoiberg are obvious, Hermes becomes a Turmish merchant, Zapp Brannigam becomes a Spelljamming Captain (and idiot), Kiff is a Batrachi (one of a group that fled into space), Nibbler becomes a new monster type with a portal to limbo located in his stomach, 'Mom' becomes the Simbul, The Robot Devil takes Cyric's place, and scruffy gets to play Cormyrian Farmer w/pitchfork #2. It all works! :D |
| GothicDan09-15-07, 09:25 PM | When you running the game, Markus? ;) |
| Old Sage09-15-07, 09:44 PM | Actually, its PERFECT! Bender and the other 'bots become the Warforged, Amy's a Shou diciple, the Prof. becomes an Artificer, Leila and Zoiberg are obvious, Hermes becomes a Turmish merchant, Zapp Brannigam becomes a Spelljamming Captain (and idiot), Kiff is a Batrachi (one of a group that fled into space), Nibbler becomes a new monster type with a portal to limbo located in his stomach, 'Mom' becomes the Simbul, The Robot Devil takes Cyric's place, and scruffy gets to play Cormyrian Farmer w/pitchfork #2. It all works! :DDon't forget Gary Gygax and his +2 Mace. ;) |
| Straploknight09-15-07, 09:55 PM | Don't forget Gary Gygax and his +2 Mace. ;) And keep an eye on Hawking, he can be deadly with that chair of his! |
| MarkusTay6309-15-07, 10:07 PM | Don't forget Gary Gygax and his +2 Mace. ;)Dost thou mean the Egg of Koot, most Sagely one? ;) |
| Dark Wizard09-15-07, 10:44 PM | Does that mean the cast of the Star Trek the original series get to cameo as a band of epic level adventurers? Kirk can take over for Elminster, at least when it comes to the ladies. |
| MarkusTay6309-16-07, 12:52 AM | That makes perfect sense as well... You see, I have a comic wherein the original crew meets the X-men (no, I'm not kidding (http://photos1.blogger.com/img/198/4480/640/star%20trek%20cover.jpg)). The X-men have also met Kulan gath, who is a villain from the Conan novels (also, Wolverine fought Conan in a what-if). Now, we all know that Set is the evil deity of the Hyborian World, and is trying to gain in power in FR as well (not to mention the Marvel Universe). So, the X-Men contacted their old Friends from the Enterprise and asked for help defeating Set once and for all, so they find the nearest 'temporal space anomaly', slingshot around the sun, and dove into a wormhole. Wallah! Star Trek in the Realms! I just hope Scotty knows how to install a Spelljamming Helm... :D Kirk: "Damn, they have Gorn down here too" In a fight, who would win - 'Q' or Ao? :thinks: |
| Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir09-16-07, 01:02 AM | "Oh no, Elminster, there's a problem with the Weave! It's not good, sir, and if we don't get it fixed soon, I won't be beaming up anymore fashion models for you." But then then, in some unexplainable fashion, the Nexus forces it's way into Faerun in a temporal paradox where Picard stayed in the Nexus. Suddenly we have Patrick Stewart meeting his comic book persona? Wtf!? Actually, that sounds an awful lot like something Wizards would do. |
| MarkusTay6309-16-07, 01:11 AM | Until Keanu Reeves unexpectedly wakes up in Eberron and realizes that the Forgotten Realms was nothing more then a programmed Illusion in his tiny little warforged brain. ;) |
| Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir09-16-07, 01:36 AM | But unfortunately, Drizzt would kick Keanu's crapgun in Faerun, and since the body can't live without the mind, we prevent Eberron from getting any Matrix references. :P |
| GothicDan09-16-07, 01:40 AM | BOO MATRIX! BOO! |
| MarkusTay6309-16-07, 01:59 AM | Ahhhh... but you forget, a mind is not essential to playing in Eberron. :P Not a Matrix fan, Dan? At least I didn't say he woke up in Tarabithia. :yuck: |
| Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir09-16-07, 09:08 AM | GACK! *chokes on smoke of burning movie* |
| GothicDan09-16-07, 11:54 AM | The Matrix was a lot of good things diced up, mixed up, and squished together into a completely unrecognizable, dumbed down, commercial stew. |
| MarkusTay6309-16-07, 12:33 PM | The first one was good, the next few were just made to make money... Sounds like something else we've all been talkng about. :P Tarabithia - the ONLY movie I ever had the b@lls to return to the guy in the alley who sold me the pirated copy (I'm not joking). He let me exchange it for My Super Ex-Girlfriend. At least I didn't need to gauge my eyes out for that one (I closed them when Uma was on-screen). :D |
| GothicDan09-16-07, 12:45 PM | I never saw Bridge. My best friend liked it, and my sister hated it with a passion, so I never wanted to test the theory out. |
| MarkusTay6309-16-07, 06:34 PM | Take the plot of My Girl, reverse the lead roles, throw in a couple of special effects and then market them as 'the movie', and then have the whole thing produced in Canada... :rolleyes: Did you see the commercials? They had ZERO to do with the plot of the movie. It is NOT a fantasy movie... those are a couple of 'day dreams' by the RW children the movie is actually about. False advertising in the EXTREME. :ahem: This thread needs more spoilers. I predict that the Symbul is one of the ones that gets 'mind-fried'. |
| GothicDan09-16-07, 06:39 PM | That's why my sister hated it. My friend hadn't seen the previews first. :) |
| Forest_Wanderer_Aerandir09-16-07, 09:23 PM | I imagine if I was younger, I'd go see it; I know some younglings who think the girl in it is hot. Beyond that, meh. I'd save my money for NWN 2. |
| Lord Karsus09-16-07, 11:28 PM | -So... |
| SmartPaladin09-17-07, 02:36 AM | -So... Shoes? Sorry, running gag at home. :P |
| ElMorte09-17-07, 02:51 AM | Don't forget Gary Gygax and his +2 Mace. ;) LOL I absolutely *rolls dice* love that. *g* |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-17-07, 01:43 PM | heavy duty evil and unheaval are the meat and potatos of most fantasy settings. i mean, it's gospel. especially when parent company is going through a "transitional phase" to put it nicely...ie)"let's make mo' $ w/ a new edition, of course we'll need some new plot hooks and premises to help jump start it." It's not written anywhere that a fantasy setting must feature dramatic, apocolyptic unheaval and monolithic villains as a means of change. In fact, as far as I can tell, that isn't the type of setting the FR was meant to be. |
| Rizogue09-17-07, 02:14 PM | You got to love Markus (Sorry bud... :P ) Take a perfectly good topic, throw it way off with X-Men, Start Trek, Bridge of Tarabithia, Matrix, and Futurama. Then start a new thread on the same thing we were discussing here, and now that this one may get back on track, I have two to try to keep up with. Lovely. :cool: |
| MarkusTay6309-17-07, 11:38 PM | Actually, once the real stuff in the GHotR came out, I think the wind got knocked out of most folk's sails on this thread. The thread I started was to sprecifically come up with ideas for the 'world merger' - even silly ones. Eventually, if enough ideas are thrown around, someone is bound to hit on the truth. At the end of the day, that person wins a :cookie: . This thread I feel is geered not so much to the events, but rather what the world will look like in 100 years because of the events. This is, for lack of a better phrase, the 'post-apocalypse' thread. :P I'm glad its back on track, and I think we will be getting a bunch of new information in two weeks, when the very fist edition of Insider comes out. |
| Zanan09-18-07, 03:55 AM | Actually, once the real stuff in the GHotR came out, I think the wind got knocked out of most folk's sails on this thread. Either that or Talos is on the lose. We'll see. Alas, it's only 1374/75 right now and I have reason to believe that we don't just run through 10 years of Realmshistory within 10 months or so. |
| Lord Karsus09-18-07, 10:37 AM | Alas, it's only 1374/75 right now and I have reason to believe that we don't just run through 10 years of Realmshistory within 10 months or so. -What is the current year, anyway? Twelve different products have used twelve different years. Last time I checked, it was 1375, but I might be wrong now... |
| Red_Wizard09-18-07, 10:43 AM | Well storm of the dead makes it 1377, but I don't know if "current" has a meaning anymore. |
| Lord Karsus09-18-07, 11:14 AM | Well storm of the dead makes it 1377, but I don't know if "current" has a meaning anymore. -That's what I mean. Some sourcebooks are set in 1375, some novels are set in 1376 and 1377, and so on and so on. -You know, it's too bad that massive events, such as the Year of the Rogue Dragons weren't given more depth. What, the entire year had a few novels, and a sourcebook? What a missed opportunity, I feel. -We need more novels that take place in the past, like the Star of Cursrah. Sure, it was the past, but it was well done. |
| MarkusTay6309-18-07, 12:06 PM | The current official game time is 1375 DR - the novels that have been coming out for the last two years took into account that the timeline was being moved forward at least ten, and therefore 'wrote into' the gap. I have a feeling the novels wll continue forward pretty much as they have, and the timeline in THEM will be moved forward a couple of years every REAL year by the authors. They now have a hundred years to fill in, and it won't effect games running in the 'new' timeline. If I'm right, then this is actually just about the only thing I would like about a century jump. By doing so, the authors have diverged into their own seperate reality (the lost century), and can slowly fill-in all the missing lore as 4e evolves. This would be MUCH better then the reverse (which was starting to happen) where we were gaming in a time period BEHIND the novels, which made everything our characters did seem both trivial and inconsequential. They said there would be no novels about the Spellplague - I think that is a half-truth. What we will probably see are novels that lead up to it (Mystra's Fall), and then novels set in the aftermath, where we experience the results of the Spellplague. Now, if they go the OTHER way, and we game from 1386 on, but the novels continue into the next century, then I think most gamers will be happy. Unfortunetly, then we worsen the "my charcters don't mean anything in the greater scheme of things" feeling, which will continue the whining about 'munchkinism'. So there is no win/win situation - we either correct the problem the novels have been creating, or we continue to exacerbate the situation. @Zanan - A decade jump is normal for an edition change, and not just in D&D. I don't think many people will have a problem with that, because many of the NPCs could still be alive, but getting older, and now their children can be introduced as 'the new gaurd'. ;) |
| Phaele09-18-07, 12:20 PM | Well, I didn't like Midnight anyhow... bring back the old Mystra for us. With magic run amok, I am almost glad to be ending a 4 year long campaign, and glad that 4e gives me yet another rule set to learn. Reworking an epic level Netherese Arcanist really isn't anything but a grim task. Over all... kudos to the Grand History...pick it up...its worth it. ( Now I can finally retire some of my AD&D sourcebooks I was using for histroy information! Room on my shelves for more ^_^) |
| Red_Wizard09-18-07, 12:32 PM | Markus, besides the sample chapter that was obviously a look at one possible future, has there actually been any other examples to suggest a 100 year jump. As far as I know there hasn't been, but perhaps I missed something. |
| MarkusTay6309-18-07, 01:29 PM | No, its all speculation at this point. In fact, I'm getting the feeling that they are being purposely misleading. Some offical statements have made it sound like a decade, while others make it sound more like a century. My point was, that a century jump would give us a 'clean slate' to game in, which just may be what they are going for. With a hundred years to write in, the authors won't be 'messing up' any of OUR plots anytime soon. On the other hand, a century jump would alienate many long-time fans, so a decade would be more appropriate for keeping the old gaurd while generating new interest. Unfortunely, that sticks us with the current problem - The novels are RUINING the Realms. The reason why all the most recent RSEs are clumped too close together is because the authors have 'run out of room'. The simplest solution would be for them to stop writing FR novels and then the Realms can 'settle down' and get back on track. The reality, however, is that they make MORE money off the novels, so they would rather lose the game line in this gambit. If the 'new' Realms tanks, so what? They still have Eberron, 4e rules, and the rest of Torilian history to write novels in. They stand to lose very little - we, on the other hand, stand to lose something we have grown to love. Thats big business for you. :rolleyes: |
| Red_Wizard09-18-07, 03:41 PM | I agree and disagree with what you say, but the main thing I wanted to be sure of was I hadn't missed anything. You have a tone of conviction in relation to the century statement, intended or not, that I wanted to get to the bottom of before I forgot. ;) |
| MerrikCale09-18-07, 09:09 PM | --You know, it's too bad that massive events, such as the Year of the Rogue Dragons weren't given more depth. What, the entire year had a few novels, and a sourcebook? What a missed opportunity, I feel. I couldn't agree more. They should have put together a novel or two away from the main players detailing some of the minor battles within the bigger event. A party saving a small town from a rampaging white, etc |
| Lord Karsus09-18-07, 10:12 PM | I couldn't agree more. They should have put together a novel or two away from the main players detailing some of the minor battles within the bigger event. A party saving a small town from a rampaging white, etc -Well, that's sort of what the Realms of the Dragon Anthologies did. |
| MerrikCale09-18-07, 10:15 PM | -Well, that's sort of what the Realms of the Dragon Anthologies did. I was thinking more novels then short stories. |
| Lord Karsus09-18-07, 10:25 PM | I was thinking more novels then short stories. -I think short stories work better in a case like this. With short stories, sure, you don't get the maximum amount of detail and plot, but with ten, twelve different stories in a single book, you get to see how the situation- in this case, the Dragon Rage- effects the Realms as a whole. |
| sillaric_culdanin09-18-07, 10:57 PM | Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet but I believe we're seeing the beginning of the "Mystra's Fall" part of the 4e future in Thomas Reid's Empyrean Odyssey and possibly the beginnings of the Tyr/Helm stuff? With what appears to be an extremely powerful servant of Mad God running loose in the House of the Triad I'm very much looking forward to Gossamer Plain's sequel. Any thoughts? |
| Lord Karsus09-18-07, 11:07 PM | Any thoughts? -I'm wondering how you got Apocalypse as your avatar...;) |
| sillaric_culdanin09-18-07, 11:14 PM | Hehe, I wasn't feeling like a member of a Planescape faction any longer and I really like the art style used in that pic... that and the fact that I rather like the warforged :]. |
| Meldread09-19-07, 12:06 AM | No, its all speculation at this point. In fact, I'm getting the feeling that they are being purposely misleading. Some offical statements have made it sound like a decade, while others make it sound more like a century. My point was, that a century jump would give us a 'clean slate' to game in, which just may be what they are going for. With a hundred years to write in, the authors won't be 'messing up' any of OUR plots anytime soon. On the other hand, a century jump would alienate many long-time fans, so a decade would be more appropriate for keeping the old gaurd while generating new interest. Unfortunely, that sticks us with the current problem - The novels are RUINING the Realms. The reason why all the most recent RSEs are clumped too close together is because the authors have 'run out of room'. The simplest solution would be for them to stop writing FR novels and then the Realms can 'settle down' and get back on track. The reality, however, is that they make MORE money off the novels, so they would rather lose the game line in this gambit. If the 'new' Realms tanks, so what? They still have Eberron, 4e rules, and the rest of Torilian history to write novels in. They stand to lose very little - we, on the other hand, stand to lose something we have grown to love. Thats big business for you. :rolleyes: These are my thoughts, exactly, and my hope as to what shall happen. |
| Zanan09-19-07, 04:07 AM | 100 year jump is simply the retrospective of Drizzt in the new book, where he looks back at events. That is not to say that the 4E will jump to 1470 DR. I think we are stuck roundabout 1374/75. The novel series Lady Penitent, The Haunted Lands and the like are meant to portray events leading up to 1380/85, explaing stuff in the Grand History and most likely the facts and figures used in the new FRCS. I would assume that they (WotC) have chosen that date to give people time to get their adventures and campaigns (those who follow the timeline, that is) enough developing space to be prepared for the Spellplague et al. |
| Meldread09-19-07, 07:30 AM | Yes, but the Spellplague (if I have understood correctly) takes place on 1385. It seems to be a long term event (as stated by Ed - a plague isn't something that just happens and goes away - it takes place over a period of time.) Granted, they could always begin the timeline immediately after the Spellplague takes place and the world is still suffering in the aftermath. However, I think that is unlikely. It is going to take time for arcane magic users to learn how to use the "new" type of magic. That isn't something you just learn over night - it's going to take a whole new generation of arcane magic users. Additionally, I don't think people would want to play in the Realm's if it was still in the process of destroying itself. I mean, you'd visit a city and then some epic level wizard who was driven insane by the Spellplague shows up and basically nukes the place. Personally, I think the Realm's will be set in a time just after the plague has ended. They've just suffered a major dark age. Yet, now - new heroes are arising (PC's and others) to reclaim what was lost. (Or rather - Forgotten being that we're playing in the Forgotten Realms, and Ed has stated that there will be a new emphasize on the "Forgotten" part. You don't forget things in a decades amount of time.) |
| Lord Karsus09-19-07, 09:03 AM | Hehe, I wasn't feeling like a member of a Planescape faction any longer and I really like the art style used in that pic... that and the fact that I rather like the warforged :]. -Oh, that's a Warforged? It looked like Apocalypse to me... It is going to take time for arcane magic users to learn how to use the "new" type of magic. That isn't something you just learn over night - it's going to take a whole new generation of arcane magic users. -Not necessarily. After the death of Mystryl, and the birth of Mystra, surviving wizards did fine, more or less. |
| MarkusTay6309-19-07, 11:07 AM | But the Weave got re-booted last time. For some strange reason, it doesn't look like that will happen this time out. The last one was 'momentary' (as YOU well know), whereas the new Spellplague appears to last for years, perhaps decades. Logic tells me they will restart in 1386 DR, but the Spellplague keeps screaming "later... MUCH LATER..." :( |
| SmartPaladin09-19-07, 11:34 AM | -Oh, that's a Warforged? It looked like Apocalypse to me... Me too for a bit. Has the do with the mouth thing. But the Weave got re-booted. For some strange reason, it doesn't look like that will happen this time out. The last one was 'momentary' (as YOU well know), whereas the new Spellplague appears to last for years, perhaps decades. Logic tells me they will restart in 1386 DR, but the Spellplague keeps screaming "later... MUCH LATER..." :( Will we at least get a knew deity of Magic? Maybe Selūne, to counter balance Shar even more. |
| Lord Karsus09-19-07, 11:41 AM | Me too for a bit. Has the do with the mouth thing. -Yup. Will we at least get a knew deity of Magic? -Hopefully, presumably. But, AGHotR didn't say anything about Mystra's sucessor. |
| GothicDan09-19-07, 01:26 PM | Normally it wouldn't take TOO long for a spell caster to move into an area where there was no Weave to channel magic, to pick up the plane's idiosyncrasies... But this was during 1E/2E, in a multiverse, where the 'change' was just Weave to, say, Three Moons, and the rules of magic itself (the base ones - PHB) were built into the multiverse itself. Everything on top was peripherals, firewalls, etc. This is more like physically destroying a network and bringing it in, and writing new code altogether. |
| MarkusTay6309-19-07, 01:33 PM | Uh-oh... We're running on a Mac now... At least we'll be able to give any alien invaders a virus.... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-19-07, 02:25 PM | Actually, once the real stuff in the GHotR came out, I think the wind got knocked out of most folk's sails on this thread. Not for me. My feelings on the changes haven't changed, even though I now have the book and checked the final entries. I've "cooled down" a bit since reading the silly spoilers, but that's mainly due to time--the changes themselves are as silly to me now as when I first read them. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-19-07, 02:29 PM | I was thinking more novels then short stories. There is Queen of the Depths, which involves the Year of Rogue Dragons events. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-19-07, 02:32 PM | -Not necessarily. After the death of Mystryl, and the birth of Mystra, surviving wizards did fine, more or less. But last time the Weave itself wasn't destroyed. GHotR explicitly states that the Weave gets destroyed (of course, they don't tell us what happens after that...). |
| Lord Karsus09-19-07, 02:45 PM | But last time the Weave itself wasn't destroyed. GHotR explicitly states that the Weave gets destroyed (of course, they don't tell us what happens after that...). -Mystra is the Weave, so whenever Mystra is destroyed, so too is the Weave. There was no Weave in the down period between the suicide of Mystryl and the elevation of Mystra, and there was no Weave during the Time of Troubles. -Perhaps the Spellplague will be very much akin to what magic was like during the Time of Troubles...? |
| MarkusTay6309-19-07, 03:14 PM | Two things - The first time the goddess of magic (Mystryl) died, the Weave did indeed collapse (no magic), but it was only for a minute or two. The newly born Mystra was able to save two(?) enclaves and lower them safely to the ground - that's how quickly magic was back up and running (and the caverns under Waterdeep DID collapse that time, destroying the Sargauth Enclave). During the ToT Mystra was able to 'hide away' portions of her power, for the sole purpose of maintaining the weave during her absence. The power being held by the mortals (like El and Midnight) mearly kept the Weave from completely disintegrating. However, without a consciousness in control, the Weave behaved erratically (wild magic) and holes began to form in it (dead magic zones). Given more time, it would have eventually collapsed completely like it did when she died the first time. It was only a very short time between Mystra 1's death and Mystra 2's ascension, and I don't recall what happened during that period. Magic may have totally stopped functioning, or more likely, it was held in place by the continuation of her mortal conduits (Chosen) or even Ao himself. In the first case, there was (briefly) no weave to speak of, and in the second it had only become highly unstable. Mystra 'suicided' on purpose after Karsus' Folly, and therefore had time to 'shunt' her power and part of her awareness into a very 'special' mortal woman. This time out, she was caught unawares and had no such contingencies in place (either that, or she just assumed she would win against Cyric and made no such preperations). So... as of 1385 DR THERE IS NO WEAVE, PERIOD. Its gone, and its NEVER coming back. How can I make that kind of statement in advance? Becasue from a meta-gaming standpoint they are changing the rules, and the easiest way to do that is to say that the Weave no longer exists. Now, thats not to say that the designers couldn't have a different god pick up the portfolio, but then it wouldn't be Mystra's weave, now would it? It would be something new and different entirely (hence, the new 25-level spell system). |
| Meldread09-19-07, 03:54 PM | -Not necessarily. After the death of Mystryl, and the birth of Mystra, surviving wizards did fine, more or less. That was a whole different situation. Just because it happened that way once, why should we assume that it happens that way again? I don't think the Weave is destroyed outright by Mystra's Death. At least not completely. The number of Chosen she has created specifically to guard against this purpose cannot be ignored. The first thing that will likely happen is that Mystra will die. Magic will go wonky (i.e. wild magic). There may be circumstances revolving around Shar's participation in her death which institute the Spellplague. Remember that Shar is often associated with insanity. So Mystra dies, the Weave goes wild, her Chosen manage to hold it together to some degree, but not before it becomes 'tainted' with the plague which forces all magic users on Toril to make a will save vs the plague or die. Those who make their save go insane - if not immediately then over time. Because the Weave is being held together by Mystra's Chosen (some of whom may also die outright or go insane), those powerful Wizards who have been driven insane are going to go on a rampage. This will result in a breaking of the world type scenario akin to what happened in the Wheel of Time. Things might continue like this for some years - perhaps a decade or so - until someone (like Elminster) struggling to push back insanity manages to do something to fix the problem. What we are seeing here with this transition stretches far beyond simple problems with the Weave. The gods themselves will struggle to hold together their very planes of existence. The Torillion multiverse hovers over the edge of the void and is only being held back by a thin thread. In essence, Shar comes just a hair close to achieving her ultimate victory - the destruction of everything. We will likely begin playing just after the dust begins to settle. When the Realm's has once again reached a point where it is stable and just taking its first baby steps on the road to recovery. Although, setbacks in that recovery may be possible. Based on all the information this is the Realm's we will be gaming in. Right now the Realm's is in a renaissance period not unlike the period of the Roman Empire. It's about to be thrown into a dark age where knowledge, kingdoms and history is lost. Where the very world and life itself faces the threat of annihilation. |
| MarkusTay6309-19-07, 04:03 PM | I still don't have the tome (One local Borders is out, and I refuse to deal with the other any longer). :( Does anyone have the exact quote from the book? I could have sworn it said that the Weave was DESTROYED. MoF specifically states that the Shadoweave would be completely unaffected by Mystra's death and the disappearance of the Weave. I tried to get that point across over at CK, but hit with the usuallly "but ED said...." :rolleyes: I love the guy too... but rules is rules.... ;) More food for thought, putting together the events in Lady Penitent with the Orc King spoiler, I forsee a HUGE problem for non-Lolthian drow. The ONLY defense males have against the females in that society is magic, so when it goes bye-bye in '85, there's gonna be some 'holy war' badness going on in the Underdark. We will most likely return to the 'prisitne' Drow of yore, hence the statements in the 3e DotU. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-19-07, 04:21 PM | MoF specifically states that the Shadoweave would be completely unaffected by Mystra's death and the disappearance of the Weave. I tried to get that point across over at CK, but hit with the usuallly "but ED said...." :rolleyes: I love the guy too... but rules is rules.... ;) But what Ed says is also canon. In any case, I generally do go with what Ed says, because he created (and still helps maintain) the setting. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-19-07, 04:22 PM | I don't think the Weave is destroyed outright by Mystra's Death. At least not completely. The number of Chosen she has created specifically to guard against this purpose cannot be ignored. I agree...but since when does WotC always bow deferentially to previous lore? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-19-07, 04:23 PM | It's about to be thrown into a dark age where knowledge, kingdoms and history is lost. Where the very world and life itself faces the threat of annihilation. Just what the fans always wanted!:rolleyes: |
| Fabius Maximus09-19-07, 04:24 PM | Markus, the first time when Mystryl died, she had no contingencies in place, either. |
| sillaric_culdanin09-19-07, 04:53 PM | But what Ed says is also canon. In any case, I generally do go with what Ed says, because he created (and still helps maintain) the setting. Indeed, but only to the extent that published WotC lore doesn't contradict it. I love Ed as well, but as Markus stated MoF clearly states that the Shadow Weave's existence (something Ed didn't have anything to do with creating and doesn't use in his home campaign) isn't tied in any way to the survival of Mystra's Weave. Like it or not... that's unfortunately canon. In my home game I have a group in the process (with the help of Mask) of helping Mystra steal control of the Shadow Weave... which will in some ways change or 'corrupt' Mystra after she takes control. Now that 4e and the Spellplague are coming and Mystra's about to take the long plunge (something I still only know of by hearsay since Amazon sucks harder than my vacuum cleaner) I'm not sure what exactly will happen. We're over a year out if things keep going the way they are before my group takes a shot at Shar's Weave directly... should be interesting to see where we end up and whether they'll be gung-ho to reboot and start over with peons in a Points of Light Realms or not. |
| sillaric_culdanin09-19-07, 04:55 PM | Markus, the first time when Mystryl died, she had no contingencies in place, either. I thought that in one of the Arcane Age novels it talks about how Mystryl had readied a contingency in the form of a little girl that lived in Karsus' Enclave... may be remembering incorrectly, that was a long time ago that I read those particular novels. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-19-07, 05:19 PM | Indeed, but only to the extent that published WotC lore doesn't contradict it. I love Ed as well, but as Markus stated MoF clearly states that the Shadow Weave's existence (something Ed didn't have anything to do with creating and doesn't use in his home campaign) isn't tied in any way to the survival of Mystra's Weave. Like it or not... that's unfortunately canon. Well, those who read my posts long enough will come to find out that I tend not to give a damn about what's "canon" and what isn't insofar as it affects my Realms, so I wouldn't use the term "unfortunately". I don't feel beholden to it. I believe it was actually Ed who contradicted MoF (not the other way around), and what Ed says is canon. I'm going with Ed. If other people don't want to, that's fine too (what other people do with their games doesn't affect me). |
| Selvarin09-19-07, 05:41 PM | and he's in the shower with Bobby Ewing? We can only hope...not that I'm into the Bobby Ewing dude, but right now I can handle the sight of a naked dude much better than the implications of the spellplague and (more than potential/theoretical) mass die-off of interesting characters and deities. The more I think of it, the more I imagine this becoming a 'line in the sand' for many FR fans...with more than a few gamers deciding to be content with just updating the 3.5 FR crunch themselves and not caring anymore. |
| Lord Karsus09-19-07, 06:21 PM | That was a whole different situation. -How so? |
| MarkusTay6309-19-07, 06:51 PM | Markus, the first time when Mystryl died, she had no contingencies in place, either.But she purposely willed herself dead, so she can be reborn and free from Karsus' connection to her. There was a definate plan in mind when she did that, and she KNEW she would come right back. In my home game I have a group in the process (with the help of Mask) of helping Mystra steal control of the Shadow Weave... which will in some ways change or 'corrupt' Mystra after she takes control. Now that 4e and the Spellplague are coming and Mystra's about to take the long plunge (something I still only know of by hearsay since Amazon sucks harder than my vacuum cleaner) I'm not sure what exactly will happen. We're over a year out if things keep going the way they are before my group takes a shot at Shar's Weave directly... should be interesting to see where we end up and whether they'll be gung-ho to reboot and start over with peons in a Points of Light Realms or not.Something like THAT is what SHOULD HAVE happened; it's far more interesting if Mystra makes to grab the Shadoweave, and gets corrupted in the process, becoming an uncaring true-neutral deity. What did happen was VERY ill-thought out. Cyric reminds me of the Joker from Batman comics - a crazy jerk who is accorded far more power then he should have. and guess what? When they started making The Joker more successful and murderous, I stopped reading Batman too. Why do companies always think "darker is better"? |
| Muddman09-19-07, 09:47 PM | I'm probably off on this, but here is how I understand the past and present situations: The weave shearing apart in the Fall of Netheril was different in that magic failed because Mystryl lost control of the Weave to a baffoon (Karsus). His spell wrestled control away from mystryl so he could control it, which he couldn't, so she died and became Mystra to regain control about a minute later. So, the Weave was never actually destroyed BECAUSE of Mystryl's sacrifice, but she was never in true danger. This time, Mystra is killed instantly, totally destroying the Weave with her since she IS the Weave. Killing the god destroys the weave, not the other way around. Kind of a chicken/egg situation. Does that make sense? But here is my question: Tyr KILLS Helm over a terrible misunderstanding and all Cyric gets for destroying numerous planes and gods is given house arrest for 1000 years? What kind of legal system is this... Los Angeles? Cyric the superstar is stopped for driving drunk for the eighth time and gets a slap on the wrist while hard working, joe shmoe Helm has a busted tail light and gets the electric chair? Apparently Tyr wants to give up the whole justice thing and become a celebrity defense lawyer, better money I guess. One last point... seems like they are narrowing the pantheon down with whole sale slaughter of the numerous gods... sounds like they might make Faerun 4th ed. core world with a simplified pantheon of only greater powers ala Greyhawk in 3rd ed. Anyone else see this or am I just imagining things? |
| MarkusTay6309-19-07, 10:15 PM | I think they'll mitigate the sentence even lower eventually, and all he'll have to do is a few hours of community service. Probably do a couple of Public Service Announcments or something... :rolleyes: |
| Meldread09-20-07, 04:15 AM | I agree...but since when does WotC always bow deferentially to previous lore? I think what I described will happen for one simple reason. They can't have the maximum amount of damage if there is no Weave. It is in effect "destroyed" as stated, but it is held together long enough by the Chosen for tons of insane epic level wizards on the rampage to "break the world". After that there would be so many holes in the Weave that it would simply collapse and fall apart under the strain. I also think the Shadow Weave will be unaffected. The fact that Drizzt talks of the Empire of Netheril likely implies that the City of Shade survived and that they were successful. This means that the Shadow Weave was not lost. It could even be possible that the Shadow Weave is the first and only way to use magic on Toril for awhile, making Shar the new Goddess of Magic. A bit strange, but I doubt it would last long until another Weave is created. I would place my bet on Selune. Selune is also often depicted as the deity who takes care of the insane - healing insanity. While Shar is depicted as causing it. It could be that the Chosen are all driven insane (or at least most of them) and go throughout the world on a rampage. Selune "heals" Elminster of his insanity and he becomes her newest Chosen. They'd then work together to re-create the Weave - or rather what we would come to see as 4E Magic. I select Selune due to her long standing battles against Shar, and because it would bring that conflict more to the forefront. It also makes sense considering the fact that the Shadow Weave does not seem connected to the Weave, therefore meaning that Shar created it herself. If Shar has that ability then Selune also likely also has the ability. |
| MarkusTay6309-20-07, 12:16 PM | The Moonweave? ;) I see Nobanion sacrificing himself to Auril , just to save a few kids... :P Seriously though, if they DO re-set the timeline a century ahead, practically no-one will buy the products. If its not relevant to our game, why would we buy it? Just because of the logo? How stupid could they possibly think we are? :uh-huh: I really hope that they weren't that ignorant of people's reactions to all of this - just give us the decade or so and let us wallow in our misery - Don't kill-off the setting for good like you did Greyhawk. :( I can't even think about this thread anymore - after the spoiler and the info in the GHotR, they obviously do not feel anything is sacred, so it might not even resemble the Realms at all. |
| Lord Karsus09-20-07, 01:04 PM | Seriously though, if they DO re-set the timeline a century ahead, practically no-one will buy the products. If its not relevant to our game, why would buy it? Just because of the logo? How stupid could they possibly think we are? :uh-huh: -You'd be surprised... I can't even think about this thread anymore - after the spoiler and the info in the GHotR, they obviously do not feel anything is sacred, so it might not even resemble the Realms at all. -As I pointed out Rich Baker saying, and AGHotR also reiterates, 1385 DR (The Spellplague) is the turning point between the "old" Realms and the "new" Realms. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-20-07, 01:32 PM | By the way, I also think Cyric's sentence was much too gentle... |
| MarkusTay6309-20-07, 01:42 PM | Actually, if they stick to the lore, he shouldn't have been punished at all. A god should NEVER be punished for acting within his portfolio. Where the hell is Ao while all of this is taking place? I hate Cyric as much as the next guy, probably more so (he doesn't even exist in MY Realms), but I thought the Trial of Cyric already showed that he CAN'T be punished for being a d__k? :uh-huh: I think in 4e, they need to change the alignment of ALL gods to chaotic stupid. :bored: |
| Meldread09-20-07, 01:45 PM | Seriously though, if they DO re-set the timeline a century ahead, practically no-one will buy the products. If its not relevant to our game, why would buy it? Just because of the logo? How stupid could they possibly think we are? They have already stated at the same time of the 4E announcement that people should begin wrapping up their campaigns. When the statement originally came out it was believed that it referred to the fact that the 4E mechanics were just to "different" to 3E. However, in retrospect that may have only been part of it. After all, you can convert characters and such to a different system just as you can take a D&D character to GURPS and such. I believe that the comment may have been based on the fact that the timeline was moved ahead. I take that statement and Ed's own statement about a plague lasting for awhile - it isn't something that just happens and goes away - as to meaning that 1385 is just the beginning. That's the date when the proverbial **** hits the fan. The fact that they haven't come right out and stated, "The new FRCS will be set in Year..." tells me that they are still not certain how far forward they will go. Maybe a hundred years, maybe seventy-five, maybe one-hundred and fifty. However, I am quite certain based on all that we've been told that it is not going to be set on or around 1385. That makes no sense. After all the old system of magic is gone. It's going to take at least one generation to learn the new system after they survive whatever fall out comes from the Spellplague. As I pointed out Rich Baker saying, and AGHotR also reiterates, 1385 DR (The Spellplague) is the turning point between the "old" Realms and the "new" Realms. I agree. Like I said above, that's the date that everyone on Toril can point to on a calendar and say, "That's when everything just went horribly wrong." In the same way we can look back on 9/11 as a date that the history of our world was altered, or the beginning of WWII, or any major event that effected the entire planet directly or indirectly. |
| Meldread09-20-07, 01:48 PM | Actually, if they stick to the lore, he shouldn't have been punished at all. A god should NEVER be punished for acting within his portfolio. Where the hell is Ao while all of this is taking place? Well I don't know where Ao is, but here is how I think it happened. It's true that Cyric was acting within his portfolio. Ao, however, had nothing to do with his imprisonment. It was done by three other gods (I am not completely sure which but I believe Lathander is one of them). Those three deities were also acting within their portfolios, and as such - Ao has no reason to be involved. A technical loophole! |
| MarkusTay6309-20-07, 02:10 PM | Yeah, I thought of that as well. The whole thing still sounds a little 'wishy-washy' to me, though. The fact that they haven't come right out and stated, "The new FRCS will be set in Year..." tells me that they are still not certain how far forward they will go. Maybe a hundred years, maybe seventy-five, maybe one-hundred and fifty. However, I am quite certain based on all that we've been told that it is not going to be set on or around 1385. That makes no sense.I think this is the big problem for everyone right now - they aren't telling (it's an advertising gimmick to create 'buzz'). It makes us feel like they themselves are still unsure about timeline move. 1386 DR would work for fans, 1485 DR will work for them... But without the fans, there won't be a 1486... :rolleyes: |
| Meldread09-20-07, 03:02 PM | I don't necessarily think that things will end up as bad as people believe. Certainly, I think things will change a lot. However, I still think we'll have 75% of the things we like about the Realm's and 25% new stuff that will be hit and miss with the community. Obviously, the changes that are happening are a result of metadesign decisions. I can't say that I disagree with the premise behind the decisions, and I at least respect the fact that they are not doing a major retcon. At least by having it done this way it doesn't invalidate all of the previous lore and history. Now, will I use the new FRCS? That remains to be determined. I'll make that decision when I know more about what will be in it. I do not know if I want to use the events leading up to the new FRCS though. What I would LIKE to do is create my own history that takes place between the dates selected for the new FRCS. Then bring my own history to the same or similar conclusions. For example, I'd like to see Set and Cyric merge into the same deity with Set's personality dominate. (This would basically kill Cyric.) Then one of the first campaigns I'd run in the new Realm's would be a campaign to free Cyric (AKA Set) from his prison. Of course, I may just as well use some of the deities found in the Realms and have my campaign take place out of Faerun entirely. I do not know yet. |
| MarkusTay6309-20-07, 04:01 PM | Now, will I use the new FRCS? That remains to be determined. I'll make that decision when I know more about what will be in it. I do not know if I want to use the events leading up to the new FRCS though. This is how am approaching it as well. I promise to buy the new 4e FRCS, and if I like what I see, I may use it and move my Realms forward.. However, it better be the most incredible piece of fiction ever written - greater then the next ten best-selling novels of all time put together! My jaw had better drop, and my brain had better release endorphins through the entire reading of said sourcebook. And if it truly is THAT amazing - then I 'may' consider future purchases... :cool: Oh... and if there is one single typo... I will stop reading right there... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-20-07, 04:18 PM | Actually, if they stick to the lore, he shouldn't have been punished at all. A god should NEVER be punished for acting within his portfolio. Where the hell is Ao while all of this is taking place? Punishing him is within the portfolio of the good gods. With that logic, it's all fair game. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-20-07, 04:28 PM | I don't necessarily think that things will end up as bad as people believe. Certainly, I think things will change a lot. However, I still think we'll have 75% of the things we like about the Realm's and 25% new stuff that will be hit and miss with the community. For me it's not nearly that scientific. I dislike what canon facts I've heard so far--even if everything else is awesome it's still not enough for me to embrace the new version of the Realms. I simply don't want to, because I prefer the "old" Realms much more. |
| Zanan09-20-07, 06:02 PM | Punishing him is within the portfolio of the good gods. With that logic, it's all fair game. BTW, given that he could do it once, I wonder why that drow wizard does not return with his kiira gems and casts another semi high magic ritual and blasts Lolth's name from the memory of the drow as well? As it stands, it would work just fine. Fair game and field days ... |
| Flicker09-20-07, 06:14 PM | Lets throw something else in here as well. At GC UK, it was confirmed that the new living campaign would be FR based, now if Wotc take a leaf from Paradigm Concept's book, maybe the living campaign will have influence on the canon events, hell L5r has been successful with that as well. In that case you have a new design system and new input from all the players going in the direction they want to go in and a whole new concept for them to get people interested in the products. As for arguing over who's gonna get what etc, how about this, forget everything we know and love about the Realms at this point in time. Why? because it will be the core system for 4e, so therefore we need to wipe out all the gods and get to to basics, as GH was for 3.5 (confirmed in part at GCUK), we need to make the realms SIMPLE!! also confirmed in many conversations. So we'll likely see only those gods who you can balance out with the ones in the current PH, oh and no Selune, why? read the last part of GHOR, only greater gods survive!!!!!!! Best guess. Silvanus Tyr Mielliki saved cos of Drizzt Shar Cyric, but imprisoned so behind the scenes cults and madmen Tiamat, oh yeh, why keep the whole unther plot going? it is D&Dragons after all Sune Oghma Bane and here's the outrageous one Elminster!!!!!! Why, cos the realms change and what better way to get rid of him? I feel we could be looking at a whole dark ages scenario and uncovering history, likely you could see 'smokepowder' become more prevalent and a lot more tech stuff as they appeal to a new age group, is that eberron? no i don;t think so but i do think some of the flavour will drift over. Flicker |
| Flicker09-20-07, 06:24 PM | This is how am approaching it as well. I promise to buy the new 4e FRCS, and if I like what I see, I may use it and move my Realms forward.. However, it better be the most incredible piece of fiction ever written - greater then the next ten best-selling novels of all time put together! My jaw had better drop, and my brain had better release endorphins through the entire reading of said sourcebook. And if it truly is THAT amazing - then I 'may' consider future purchases... :cool: Oh... and if there is one single typo... I will stop reading right there... You may like to here what my question as to when 5e will be released provoked this response at Gen Con UK. We aren't considering it at present, we have to much work to do on 4e Follow up: but there will be a 5e? A: of course Now, take a step back from that answer a second, will it be the most brain blowing thing you've ever read, try again, this is marketing, therefore it will appeal to the biggest market they want to appeal to who will buy the greatest number of books without the depth and history we all love for FR. Why because that brings in more money for the company. Will they support in the way we want, possibly, but likely through online 'extra stuff' that we subscribe to through that mechanism. I am been cynical, no, realistic, I work for the biggest corporation in the world and i know how marketing guys work Welcome to the new generation of roleplaying based on Microsoft marketing. The new realms will need to be slimmer, easier to understand and digestible to a younger audience who have a diet of Magic/Warcraft PS2 and Xbox. I'm sorry if i do disservice to those younger members who have a brain, please remember you are a minority these days, majority rules. |
| Flicker09-20-07, 06:27 PM | -Hopefully, presumably. But, AGHotR didn't say anything about Mystra's sucessor.[/QUOTE] Agree, kind of hard to have magic without a deity in control though, i think we will end up with more of a Boccob type, here's your tool get on and use it how you will, the gods can't intervene. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-20-07, 08:07 PM | BTW, given that he could do it once, I wonder why that drow wizard does not return with his kiira gems and casts another semi high magic ritual and blasts Lolth's name from the memory of the drow as well? As it stands, it would work just fine. Fair game and field days ... Let's go even farther than that. Why don't people just blast any god that they don't like out of existence? |
| Red_Wizard09-20-07, 09:46 PM | Agree, kind of hard to have magic without a deity in control though, i think we will end up with more of a Boccob type, here's your tool get on and use it how you will, the gods can't intervene. Kind of hard to have magic when the entire weave has been destroyed. Which then makes one ask how the shadow weave fairs. |
| MarkusTay6309-20-07, 10:23 PM | Going by MoF, it would be fine. Going by Ed, the Shadoweave is tied to the Weave, and can't last without it. Going by the Shadowdale module, it basically reconfirms what Ed said - That one cannot exist without the other. It may not collapse immediately, but it can't last very long without the Weave. Since that is the newest source, it is the most valid and trumps all others. |
| Selvarin09-20-07, 11:25 PM | All things considered, it's tiresome to keep killing Mystra. May as well call her 'Kenny' (ala South Park). :P With that being said, someone needs to be the successor. But I hope it isn't a N deity of magic. Too trite. Maybe LN. Hey, maybe the Weave gets taken over by a non-human deity. Perhaps it's time for Corellon's ascension. :D Or maybe not. My feeling is if the human FR deities encroach upon the non-humans' turf, let them do the same. Perhaps Sehahine and Selune merge and take over the Weave's handling. (And no it isn't happening, everyone hold back their disdain.) But really, something has to happen. Another one has to take over. Perhaps make the Simbul take over. She's pretty powerful for a mortal, and being slightly mad already the Spellplague shouldn't make her any worse. Perhaps even knock her 'sane', heh. :D Let the snarkiness begin. |
| Dark Wizard09-20-07, 11:36 PM | All things considered, it's tiresome to keep killing Mystra. May as well call her 'Kenny' (ala South Park). :P "Oh my goddess, they killed Mystra!" "Those bastards!" Yeah, I think we've reached that point. If you die and return about every edition (four editions, three deaths, two resurrections, maybe a third upcoming in some form), there's something seriously wrong with your plots. Do the magic domains really have such a turnover rate? I expect something like Helm's or Gorm's portfolio would have a higher fatality possibilities. Maybe that's how it will be Helm returns! We can rebuild him, stronger, faster. It's the Bionic Helm! He has come back to the Realms to face his greatest foe ever, the Robot Devil, or maybe it's the Devil's Robot if you follow the Whedonverse. |
| Selvarin09-20-07, 11:48 PM | Ahhhh Mr. Whedon, The Astonishing X-Writer and script genius. *fingers crossed on a Serenity sequel* Yep, I would've thought that as well. Helm, as a guardian deity, is almost meant to fall from the start. Notice how they're tossing Gorm as well? Poor guy. Lawfuls don't get much lovin'. :weep: At the same time it can be said other gods can take over when he's gone. he's unfortunately an 'overlap deity'. As for Mystra....what the frell? Why didn't they have Shar and Talona work together to create a magical poison that only affects arcane spellcasters tied to the Weave? It would've knocked out the upper echelons pretty well. The only rationale I see for Mystra being axed would be so she couldn't spontaneously regenerate her Chosen. But that could've been remedied in other ways. |
| Meldread09-21-07, 01:08 AM | All things considered, it's tiresome to keep killing Mystra. May as well call her 'Kenny' (ala South Park). I have to agree. It's pretty ridiculous at this point. I can't imagine Toril without the Weave, because canonically speaking the world is supposed to die without it. Also, it doesn't really affect HOW magic works since it uses the generic core rules. I am not sure why they would get rid of it since we'd still likely end up with a god (or goddess) of magic anyway with or without the Weave. The story could have been so much more interesting. Cyric and Shar team up. Cyric the Prince of Lies and Lord of Intrigue tricks Mystra into absorbing the Shadow Weave. Shar force feeds her shadowy-goodness (Evilness?) into Mystra's oversized gullet. It drives Mystra insane, causes problems with the Weave, forces all magic users to make a save vs death (and if successful go insane). Selune then works to save Mystra from her evil twin, and they battle it out with Lathander and all throwing in their hats on the side of good. They ultimately win but at great cost. Azoth dies along with Velsharoon and Savaris. Mystra absorbs the Shadow Weave in its entirety, and in the process is 'reborn'. She becomes LN or N in alignment, and takes a Boccob approach to dealing with magic and the Weave. Elminster gets raised to be the new Magistar. All of Mystra's other Chosen are dead. Mystra then withdraws from the Shar / Selune conflict to follow her own agenda letting the two sisters battle it out on their own. Everything could turn out exactly the way it is now. Shar could have made preparations to have protections build into place for those who had switched over to the Shadow Weave to prevent them from going insane. She could have also allowed those who knelt down to worship her be saved from the insanity. Things of this nature would have made it much more believable. I may even use this in place of the current story. |
| Selvarin09-21-07, 01:41 AM | I have to agree. It's pretty ridiculous at this point. I can't imagine Toril without the Weave, because canonically speaking the world is supposed to die without it. Also, it doesn't really affect HOW magic works since it uses the generic core rules. I am not sure why they would get rid of it since we'd still likely end up with a god (or goddess) of magic anyway with or without the Weave. The story could have been so much more interesting. Cyric and Shar team up. Cyric the Prince of Lies and Lord of Intrigue tricks Mystra into absorbing the Shadow Weave. Shar force feeds her shadowy-goodness (Evilness?) into Mystra's oversized gullet. It drives Mystra insane, causes problems with the Weave, forces all magic users to make a save vs death (and if successful go insane). Selune then works to save Mystra from her evil twin, and they battle it out with Lathander and all throwing in their hats on the side of good. They ultimately win but at great cost. Azoth dies along with Velsharoon and Savaris. Mystra absorbs the Shadow Weave in its entirety, and in the process is 'reborn'. She becomes LN or N in alignment, and takes a Boccob approach to dealing with magic and the Weave. Elminster gets raised to be the new Magistar. All of Mystra's other Chosen are dead. Mystra then withdraws from the Shar / Selune conflict to follow her own agenda letting the two sisters battle it out on their own. Everything could turn out exactly the way it is now. Shar could have made preparations to have protections build into place for those who had switched over to the Shadow Weave to prevent them from going insane. She could have also allowed those who knelt down to worship her be saved from the insanity. Things of this nature would have made it much more believable. I may even use this in place of the current story. Yep. indeed. One thing I definitely don't want happening is any of the Krynn stuff, where the wizards became mystics and whatnot. The thing about the Shadow Weave is it isn't attached in the same way so they wouldn't have as much to worry about, only the overall collapse of the Weave will ultimately risk the same kind of damage to her people. Honestly I like the idea of two competing forms of magic, and two goddesses heading them (NG and NE). The next goddess of magic can become LN like the old one, I'm not that bothered, but a N deity is...too Boccobish. Too Gondian. But just as before, the designers appear to be eliminating overlap and hangers-on, also...so...the question is...too many LN's, for example, or too many NG's? Where are the holes in deific representation? That is part of the reasoning, just as with the Time of Troubles. |
| Meldread09-21-07, 03:42 AM | I agree, I liked the idea of the Shadow Weave from the start and thought it was great to see competition in that department. I would also support Selune creating her own Weave to replace Mystra's and to compete against Shar's Shadow Weave. That was one of the problems that came about when the Shadow Weave was introduced. The battle between Shar and Selune became overshadowed by her battle with Mystra and turned Selune into more of a supportive character than an active participant. However, if there is only going to be one Weave for all of Toril then I hope the deity is of a Neutral Alignment. I don't care if it's Lawful Neutral, Neutral or Chaotic Neutral, as long as he/she is Neutral and does not involve themselves with mortals to any large degree. I vote Oghma! |
| Selvarin09-21-07, 03:53 AM | The more I read the last entry in the GHotR the more depressed I get: "Only the greater gods prove strong enough to maintain their realms against the resultant chaos." OK, so whoever's left has to share bunks with the others? Or do even more bite the dust? This reminds me even more of "Dragons of Summer Flame" and the coming of the chaos god. Granted, the gods wound up leaving Krynn but that place was wrecked as far as I was concerned. I wound up buying one DL novel thereafter, no gamebooks or anything. I wish WotC was Apple and I was Steve Jobs, I'd come back and start squaring things away. As it stands today I'm bullish on 4e and bearish on the Realms. |
| Selvarin09-21-07, 04:17 AM | I agree, I liked the idea of the Shadow Weave from the start and thought it was great to see competition in that department. I would also support Selune creating her own Weave to replace Mystra's and to compete against Shar's Shadow Weave. That was one of the problems that came about when the Shadow Weave was introduced. The battle between Shar and Selune became overshadowed by her battle with Mystra and turned Selune into more of a supportive character than an active participant. However, if there is only going to be one Weave for all of Toril then I hope the deity is of a Neutral Alignment. I don't care if it's Lawful Neutral, Neutral or Chaotic Neutral, as long as he/she is Neutral and does not involve themselves with mortals to any large degree. I vote Oghma! I suspect that is part of it, to turn it back to Selune vs. Shar. But frankly Shar's too big for her britches as well. In some sense, though, having Selune take over the Weave would make her standing as an Intermediate Power more legitimate. She is already favored by good-aligned spellcasters, adding Magic in general to her portfolio as "Stewardess of the Weave" could work. Maybe she'd end up NG, who knows. That would really frost Shar off, wouldn't it? To make her even more of a fixture in the pantheon? Perhaos it's best to see where the portfolios may go, based on who disappears and who would best fulfill that responsibility: Laduguer--------Abbathor, perhaps? Deep Duerra-----None Gorm------------Clangeddin? Haela------------None (overlap with Clangeddin) Helm-------------Torm Azuth------------None (major overlap) Savras-----------None Velsharoon-------Cyric? Mystra-----------?????? (I prefer Selune but I smell another book trilogy) Oh well. ToT II, III, or IV. |
| Lord Karsus09-21-07, 10:53 AM | The more I read the last entry in the GHotR the more depressed I get: "Only the greater gods prove strong enough to maintain their realms against the resultant chaos." OK, so whoever's left has to share bunks with the others? Or do even more bite the dust? -You know, I was thinking... -That doesn't make sense. Deities make their Divine Realms on the Outer Planes. They aren't effected by a lack of Weave, a lack of Mystra, and/or a Spellplague... |
| MarkusTay6309-21-07, 12:05 PM | None of it makes sense. The words 'Ill conceived' and 'not well thought out' come STRONGLY to mind. They should just hire my 6 year old to do their plots - I'm pretty sure he's already doing the artwork. ;) |
| Zanan09-21-07, 12:21 PM | The more I read the last entry in the GHotR the more depressed I get: "Only the greater gods prove strong enough to maintain their realms against the resultant chaos." Hold on ... unless Lisa sneaks in here and closes LP III before the Spellplague*, that does actually mean that Lolth is safe! Maybe that dolt Cyric has his use after all! *Why would something material plane-ish have any effect on the gods and their Realms? Worshippers? No doubt! Godly planes? :confused: |
| ikki09-21-07, 12:31 PM | heh, reminds me of that "brilliant" plotline of cyberpunk 203X.. a virus destroys all paper... err... Let alone the internet taking a physical form to kill you, should you go close to a computer.. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-21-07, 01:20 PM | Guys, of COURSE destroying the Weave would affect the outer planes! Because...you know...it just would, I guess. I'm sure WotC has an explanation for it that makes perfect sense (:rolleyes: ). |
| Thinblade09-21-07, 01:30 PM | Remember, guys, we're dealing the Tree Cosmology here. These are the same people who nuked an entire well-thought-out campaign setting (Planescape) simply because they could. Frankly, I'm surprised it took them this long to shatter the Realms. |
| MarkusTay6309-21-07, 01:31 PM | Hold on ... unless Lisa sneaks in here and closes LP III before the Spellplague*, that does actually mean that Lolth is safe! Maybe that dolt Cyric has his use after all!Could very well be the entire purpose of the WotSQ series - bump Lolth up before the RSE, so she is safe. *Why would something material plane-ish have any effect on the gods and their Realms? Worshippers? No doubt! Godly planes? :confused:Why indeed? :confused: The only thing I can figure is that Mystra was sort of a 'control factor' over all of the gods petty little plots. Once 'mommy' wasn't home anymore, the children ran amok. I don't particularly like it, but it's the only thing I can think of for their apparent bizarre behaviour in a post-Mystra universe. |
| Meldread09-21-07, 02:33 PM | I don't particularly like it, but it's the only thing I can think of for their apparent bizarre behaviour in a post-Mystra universe. I think it may make some sense. We're dealing with the Great Tree Cosmology. If I remember and understand correctly the whole 'Mystra's Weave doesn't touch the planes' was first stated when we were dealing with the Great Wheel. However, it would make sense that now that we're using the Great Tree and everything is Realm's centric that the Weave would naturally extend to the planes themselves. Also if I am not mistaken in the novel where Mystra cut Cyric off from the Weave he could not cast spells even on his home plane. So it makes some sense cannon wise. The only thing I can figure is that Mystra was sort of a 'control factor' over all of the gods petty little plots. Once 'mommy' wasn't home anymore, the children ran amok. That is the primary reason I hated Mystra at least in her current incarnation. We already have Daddy Ao (who I also hate), did we really need Mommy Mystra controlling everything as well? |
| Straploknight09-21-07, 02:50 PM | That makes perfect sense as well... You see, I have a comic wherein the original crew meets the X-men (no, I'm not kidding (http://photos1.blogger.com/img/198/4480/640/star%20trek%20cover.jpg)). The X-men have also met Kulan gath, who is a villain from the Conan novels (also, Wolverine fought Conan in a what-if). Now, we all know that Set is the evil deity of the Hyborian World, and is trying to gain in power in FR as well (not to mention the Marvel Universe) Man, you've piqued my interest with the Wolverine vs. Conan, I remember a What If, Conan vs. Captain America - Conan handed Cap his arse and nearly chopped Cap's arm off and Cap was (since he's pushing up daiseys as far as I know) one of the best if not the best fighters in Marvel, healing factor and adamantium laced skeleton aside, how did Wolverine fare? |
| Selvarin09-21-07, 03:16 PM | You know, I remember when they did something world-shattering to the World of Greyhawk as well...and we all know how well that was recieved. One thing's for certain, I do not want what happened to DL or WG to happen here. At some point a beloved campaign setting stops being what it was. Granted, there must be some sort of change and I really don't mind if some high-level wizards lose their marbles and kill themselves. But it's on the scale of gods now (again!) and a lot of deities have died, from the ToT to what is set to happen in the near future. It doesn't make much sense, really. Instead of gods getting picked off from behind the scenes it's wham! bam! Perhaps the Realms should be given back before someone breaks the aquarium holding it all in. |
| Bonzai09-21-07, 04:17 PM | Man, you've piqued my interest with the Wolverine vs. Conan, I remember a What If, Conan vs. Captain America - Conan handed Cap his arse and nearly chopped Cap's arm off and Cap was (since he's pushing up daiseys as far as I know) one of the best if not the best fighters in Marvel, healing factor and adamantium laced skeleton aside, how did Wolverine fare? Heh, I remember borrowing that one from a friend. They fought twice, the first time Conan was able to go on the defensive, analyse wolverines style, and find a flaw in it. Wolverine went down, and would have been dead if not for his healing factor. He regains consciousness, goes into one of his mindless rages, and attacks Conan again. This time, there is no form or style for Conan to predict, and Wolverine lops off his sword hand. Conan ends up going through a portal to Wolverines timeline, and he arrives just in time to chuck a rock at cyclops to protect Dark Pheonix (they were ganging up on a woman), Dark Pheonix loses control, and the universe is destroyed. Trapped in the past, Wolverine hooks up with Red Sonja (whom he easily bested in battle) and crushes the thrones of the world beneath his sandled feat. Lol. Back on topic, I think the Shadow weave will be gone too, simply since the developers have explicitly stated that they don't want any realm specific rules or systems. |
| MarkusTay6309-21-07, 04:23 PM | You forgot the part where they blamed Wolverine's 'predictability' on his Samurai training, but otherwise you got it right. Conan won when he was the more primitive, but Wolvie kicked his butt when he went 'beastial'. Good read, I loved those 'What-ifs' The one where Set takes over the world is AWESOME!!! :dancin: Back on topic: I heard Ewoks were going to be a core race in 4e. :P |
| Selvarin09-21-07, 05:38 PM | They could end up mashing the two together so that there isn't a 'shadow weave' per se, just a darker form of magic that can be accessed by those in-the-know. |
| Ben_Breeck09-25-07, 10:32 PM | Perhaos it's best to see where the portfolios may go, based on who disappears and who would best fulfill that responsibility: Laduguer--------Abbathor, perhaps? Personally, since Laduger's original sin was disobeying orders when Moradin told him not to minister to suffering Clan Duergar when they were enslaved by the Illithids, for fear of causing an Avatar Crisis with Ilsensine and Maanzacorian, and since Abbathor represents actual Dwarven vices rather than mearly Dwarven virtues taken too far, methinks that the Deurgar of Gracklstugh might convert to Bane or Gond. Where was Ao during this mess? Pantheon heads don't abandon their faithful in bondage, let alone order it. He did it again when the Immaskari kidnapped dwarves to help create the Derro. Laduger was the one actually behaving like a god should! Deep Duerra-----None Well, Dinkrazan and Diriinka have a simmilar portfolio, and the Red Knight can take up the strategic elements. 'Course, this will have to wait on how political events turned out in Gracklstugh. Gorm------------Clangeddin? Haela------------None (overlap with Clangeddin) Helm-------------Torm Maybe Torm changes his emphasis to millitary discipline and the Law of War and joins Tempus and Red Knight in a Triad of War. Azuth------------None (major overlap) Savras-----------None Velsharoon-------Cyric? Actually, since Velsharoon survived, if only barely, maybe he tries to muscle in on Cyric's portfolio. Mystra-----------?????? (I prefer Selune but I smell another book trilogy) At a guess, I'd say that Azuth or possibly Karsus is trying to gain control of the Weave. |
| Selvarin09-25-07, 11:09 PM | Personally it would've been better if Gorm stumbled across proof of Abbathor's cheating, with abbathor killing him. Berronar senses something, and finds Abbathor with his trademark dagger being pulled from Gorm's throat. Berronar takes this and puts 2 x 2 together, having been informed of Abbathoran priests being found in collusion with the deurgar in several places. Moradin calls the pantheon into a war council and throws Abbathor out. Priests of the other gods march upon all suspected Abbathoran temples, finding many trapped and others abandoned. Abbathor himself turns to Laduegar for assistance, and when Moradon demands Abbathor's return he's rebuffed. A final showdown is in the works between the two. Laduegar calls in allies, few though they be. Deep Duerra slays Haela but is in turn slain by Clanggedin. Abbathor attempts to literally stab Moradin from behind but is cut off by Berronar, and so flees. Alone and outnumbered, Laduegar is offered a chance to surrender but instead demands single combat with Moradin. Knowing it for what it is, Moradin agrees and slays him handily. With Laduegar's death, Hammergrim fades away. Meanwhile, in Faerun, in the aftermath of a battle in which dwarf fought dwarf and then united to slaughter a hoard of illithid-controlled thralls, word is given that mercy is to be offered to those duergar who chose to fight alongside the gold dwarves. Surprisingly enough the duergar agree, and they march onward towards Deep Shanatar. With regard to Deep Duerra, she was a mere demipower. The duergar leadership of most cities will cast about but find another patron that better suits their temperment, probably Bane. Also, Abbathor will be itching to make new converts. The derro savants in Gracklestugh are in a precarious position, last I heard, doubt they can do much. Torm probably takes up Helm's old portfolio as well as his own, with some possibly trickling down to the Red Knight. Neither Savras nor Velsharoon can be counted out but who knows where they'll end up. As for Azuth and Karsus, one was an overlap deity and isn't coming back. The other exists as a symbol of folly, I just can't see one who killed the first goddess Mystryl will get to pop in and take over after the third one. |
| Suin Bahhar09-26-07, 07:22 AM | Meanwhile, in Faerun, in the aftermath of a battle in which dwarf fought dwarf and then united to slaughter a hoard of illithid-controlled thralls, word is given that mercy is to be offered to those duergar who chose to fight alongside the gold dwarves. Surprisingly enough the duergar agree, and they march onward towards Deep Shanatar. This bit fits perfectly into a campaign of mine...The PC's smackdown in the middle of a golddwarf-duergar-illithid war, trying to uncover the infiltrator 'flayer in the Keep under Sammarach, Armastide. |
| Straploknight09-26-07, 08:38 AM | Hey you kow, something occurred to me with all this spellplague nastyness, if spell casters in general go insane, die or get lucky and live, what about all the creatures that draw upon the weave for spell like abilities? Mass extinction? If I were a DM and I didn't like certain races in my campaign - maybe a particular race of dark skinned elves living under the surface, methinks this would a perfectly good (and reasonable in game explanation) way to prune the tree, so to speak, or at least dwindle thier numbers to a pathetic fraction of what they once were (setting them on the road to oblivion). |
| Lord Karsus09-26-07, 09:28 AM | At a guess, I'd say that Azuth or possibly Karsus is trying to gain control of the Weave. -Leave me outta this. I wan't no part of it... |
| MarkusTay6309-26-07, 10:51 AM | -Leave me outta this. I wan't no part of it...Well, you may have no choice. Shar probably wanted that soul fragment (Karse Stone) because it is already attuned to the weave, and she's gonna use it to grab Mystra's power. Or, then again, maybe she just needed a new butt-plug. :P |
| Lord Karsus09-26-07, 05:29 PM | Well, you may have no choice. Shar probably wanted that soul fragment (Karse Stone) because it is already attuned to the weave, and she's gonna use it to grab Mystra's power. Or, then again, maybe she just needed a new butt-plug. :P -I'm not exactly sure if that is appealing, or disturbing, but it certainly is awkward. |
| MarkusTay6309-26-07, 05:46 PM | LOL :D I just thought that it might just be a fate worse then death - stuffed into a shadowhiney! :P |
| Stigger10-08-07, 04:14 AM | Well, good to see some stuff doesn't change much even if you are gone a while... :D |
| Selvarin10-08-07, 04:20 AM | Can't believe I just noticed what Markus said... :eek: Shar doesn't appreciate hiney jokes, it makes her even more morose and nhillistic...like a Smiths song, magnified a thousand times. :D |
| Stigger10-08-07, 04:27 AM | Oy, I liked the Smiths... still do at times. Just watch it, I'm in California myself and can happilly hunt those down who disparage such a great band. Well, you can insult Morrissey all you like really, just not the Smiths. :D |
| Karsus the Mad10-08-07, 07:07 PM | Well, you may have no choice. Shar probably wanted that soul fragment (Karse Stone) because it is already attuned to the weave, and she's gonna use it to grab Mystra's power. Or, then again, maybe she just needed a new butt-plug. :P If Shar needs a butt plug the size of a mountain...well...her butt must be torn wide open...<looks at all the Shadow Weave lore created since 3e...>...yep...very wide open... Shar should think of alternate career choices....asianbuttdolls dot come to mind.... |
| Lord Karsus10-08-07, 10:19 PM | Shar should think of alternate career choices....asianbuttdolls dot come to mind.... -I checked, and that is not a real website... |
| Dark Wizard10-08-07, 10:35 PM | Are you saying you lied to yourself, Karsus, er... Karsii? |
| Lord Karsus10-08-07, 11:02 PM | Are you saying you lied to yourself, Karsus, er... Karsii? -It happens from time to time. Like how the two heads of Demogorgon want to kill each other. Yeah... |
| MarkusTay6310-09-07, 12:07 AM | I think the third fragment is the worst - it's got more personalities then Sybil. :P |
| Lord Karsus10-09-07, 12:15 AM | I think the third fragment is the worst - it's got more personalities then Sybil. :P -That bastard... |
| Karsus the Mad10-09-07, 07:21 PM | -I checked, and that is not a real website... No it's not. It almost is. I made it up, based on a REAL site, to give me a saving grace in case I got banned about the overuse of buttplugs and asian butt plug sites...... Silly what one can be banned for..... I'm a genius Karsi.....or so I tell myself....yep.....yep...yep..yep..yep.. |
| Lord Karsus10-10-07, 08:14 AM | No it's not. It almost is. I made it up, based on a REAL site, to give me a saving grace in case I got banned about the overuse of buttplugs and asian butt plug sites...... Silly what one can be banned for..... I'm a genius Karsi.....or so I tell myself....yep.....yep...yep..yep..yep.. -It almost is, eh? I'll have to do some research, then. ;) -And, you are a genius, far ahead of your time. |
| Suin Bahhar10-10-07, 09:49 AM | :rofl: |
| Karsus the Mad10-10-07, 08:23 PM | -It almost is, eh? I'll have to do some research, then. ;) I have no doubt you'll figure it out. -And, you are a genius, far ahead of your time. I know...I know. |
| Keahi1910-11-07, 12:54 AM | HEY!!! With talk about who gets the Weave and who doesn't. Lets let Gond get the Weave. He'd turn magic into just another tool rather than the art it currently was in 1375. Hey from some of the other scenarios that isn't that bad. And I will accept 4.0 IF it doesn't completely destroy my other Faerun books. Modify or overhaul is fine. But if I find that Waterdeep, Cormyr or Lantan are completely destroyed, I am going to be royally ticked off. So any new spoilers? I like these. |
| Karsus the Mad10-11-07, 11:09 AM | HEY!!! With talk about who gets the Weave and who doesn't. Lets let Gond get the Weave. He'd turn magic into just another tool rather than the art it currently was in 1375. Given how eratic, sporatic, and dangerously insane Art users of any power tend to be, maybe having the Weave in the hands of a logical technician for awhile isn't such a bad thing, all things considered;) |
| Keahi1910-11-07, 11:32 AM | Thank you, some people have gotten this crazy idea that Gond hates magic. It's from a book called the Crucible, from what it sounds it doesn't make any sense at all. |
| Suin Bahhar10-11-07, 12:26 PM | Tech mages I could like yes. Gond rebooting the weave and allowing manipulation through the implements they were talking about. Staffs, orbs and wands blessed by Gond. Or maybe he will be only one of the new magic traditions that will emerge. Spellcasting steampunks and dragonmecha duking it out in the new magic battles. Aye. Seems fun, but certainely not for everyone I'd guess. |
| bykov110-11-07, 12:39 PM | Does that mean that Drizzt is now epic? Well it is 100 + years after all. I wont be surprised if Drizzt comes up as a lvl 32 drow in 4e. Considering how fast level progression is in 3.5, I would be shocked if he weren't pushing 100th level. Bykov. |
| MarkusTay6310-11-07, 02:40 PM | They should just make him a god already and get him the hell off the world. :rolleyes: Maybe HE will be the new god of magic, after all, we saw just how good he was with his Ranger spells. :P |
| Stigger10-11-07, 04:43 PM | It could explain why they haven't released a 3.5 version of the Epic stuff though... why bother when its built in to the new edition ruleset from the get go... |
| ExtinctionBeta10-11-07, 05:46 PM | Well, time for some SPOILERS from the Orc king prologue, set 100 years in the future. It is assumed all this is canon fact since it is in a published novel. Fun little intro aye? Let's put some perspective to it. 100 years in the future. Drizzt talks about "The disastrous joining of two worlds" while also talking about the rise of Netheril(again), which can only be refering to "Shadowrealm", in which the shadowvar bring back the netheril empire VIA takeover in sembia, and the shadowstorm was unleashed. Details are not yet out, but it should be a kickass event. Dude? So like...um...cale got his ass handed to him? So did mask? Friggin sweet. It's about time. Looks like Paul wasn't repetitave and didn't make a good guy beat bad guy trilogy. Still going to buy shadowstorm to see how this Drizzt wanna be (cale) got spanked.I wonder why the other gods didn't step in? I bet Lathander could step on Shar, has fanatics+alot of followers. Also I am really happy that even though the authors are dumb and don't have thier characters interact with each other, they at least acknowledge events of other tales. I remeber in shadowstorm the talk of the year of the dragon. |
| ExtinctionBeta10-11-07, 06:10 PM | Maybe since the shadowrealm is about Artemis will make an appreance since hes shade. Salvantore never let's his characters die...ever..Wulfgar came back because of the fans, and I'll be damned if Wulfgar is more popular than Artemis. But watch, if Artemis is alive, Drizzt is getting a buff......even battles... |
| MarkusTay6310-11-07, 06:38 PM | In 4e, Wulfgar becomes the god of big muscles. Cattie-brie becomes the goddes of childless spinsters. Drizzt's ego becomes so large that he is given his own Crystal Sphere just to contain it... RAS gets one as well... :P Bruenor ascends and becomes a Dwarven god of battle, but then is immediately slain by the new Overgod, Perkinsbaker, just for having the audacity of being a Dwarven god. Lolth starts a weekly poker game between her, Shar, Cyric, and Set - they use FR Realms as stakes. And the three men I admire most - Vangerdhast, Elminster and Khelben's ghost... they all took the Eberron train for the coast... ♪"The day... the music... DIED"♫ |
| ExtinctionBeta10-11-07, 06:44 PM | In 4e, Wulfgar becomes the god of big muscles. Cattie-brie becomes the goddes of childless spinsters. Drizzt's ego becomes so large that he is given his own Crystal Sphere just to contain it... RAS gets one as well... :P Bruenor ascends and becomes a Dwarven god of battle, but then is immediately slain by the new Overgod, Perkinsbaker, just for having the audacity of being a Dwarven god. Lolth starts a weekly poker game between her, Shar, Cyric, and Set - they use FR Realms as stakes. And the three men I admire most, Vangerdhast, Elminster and Khelben's ghost... they all took the Eberron train for the coast... ♪"The day... the music... DIED"♫ How are half these characters still alive? other than Drow and Shade..age actually matters. By the way, do they mention Jarlaxelle? Even if Artemis didn't survive (which he did), there is no reason for the mercenary drow not to be alive. I would read the orc king and the rest of the trilogy...but I can't stand the stupid diolouge of the dwarfs or any of Drizzt characters. When Artemis and Jarlaxelle were allied with Cadderby..all the dwarfs said was "Ooo" and stuid stuff like that. I felt like I was reading harry potter. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin10-11-07, 07:51 PM | And the three men I admire most, Vangerdhast, Elminster and Khelben's ghost... they all took the Eberron train for the coast... You're killing me. :rofl: |
| Eli_the_Tanner10-11-07, 07:58 PM | I'm wondering what the New cast of NPC's is going to look like. For surely there are going to be a few new names appearing after the Time Skip. Maybe they will have an exiled gnome trying to make a name for himself among humans (perhaps one day becoming a Playable race in his own right - radical!!). Fighting off prejudices and the stereotypes of being 'uncool' that come with being gnomish. ;) Carrying a pair of smokepowder weapons, a devil may care attitude and an introspective and angst-ridden personality - he's sure to put Gnomes back on the map!!:cool: |
| Lord Karsus10-11-07, 11:58 PM | You're killing me. :rofl: -Yeah, that one was pretty good. |
| Jhalad10-12-07, 12:28 PM | So there's talk that Realms will go 100 years into the future in 4th ed. Hmm... why does that remind me of something... Oh yeah... Clicky Tech, otherwise known as ... hmm, you know, that futuristic robot game, now made of plastic, ... but I digress If FR 4th Ed. goes to 100 years in the future as the afore mentioned did, then .. ya know... I can't even finish this post, this whole 4th edition thing disgusts me so much. |
| ExtinctionBeta10-12-07, 01:33 PM | You're killing me. :rofl: Would you rather him pick a female character? What was her name again? Elistine or somthing...one I always see you talking about...is it me or is it coincidental that she is your faviorate character on the basis that she is a women? Also the mention to Kemp that you "miss Varra". It tells me you are biast (assuming that you are a female yourself that is) But please don't take it to heart friend, I am no more than a hippocrite pointing out a flaw in you that I see in myself. |
| dethmetal10-12-07, 01:43 PM | I'm not 100% happy with the jump to 4e as well. I just don't see how they are going to fit everything together, the next two books in the transitions series for salvator aren't goign to be released until 08 and, 09 but the 4e rules from what i understand are going to be released mid 08. (i'm sure there are some other series that fall into this category as well but RAS's work is the only FR books i've read in a few years.) So what about all the source material? are they just going to leave out refrences to dritzz and some of the other major players in the realms to keep from leaking out the plotlines to stories that haven't been written yet? I'm a little to lazy to go look at the product catelouge for the upcomming year right now but i hope they have a decent number of novels comming out to help bridge this gap and it's not all vauge sidebar refrences when 4e finnally does come out. |
| MarkusTay6310-12-07, 04:37 PM | Does anyone else get the distinct impression that the joke went right over ExtinctionBeta's head? I didn't realize my sense of humour was so 'high brow'. ;) |
| Lord Karsus10-12-07, 05:37 PM | Does anyone else get the distinct impression that the joke went right over ExtinctionBeta's head? -Nah....Couldn't be. I want to see Zandilar's response, though. -EB, as for that joke...Well, I'll leave it to MT to explain, if he wants. I didn't realize my sense of humour was so 'high brow'. ;) -It makes Brittish wit look loke toilet humor. |
| Selvarin10-12-07, 05:57 PM | I'm wondering what the New cast of NPC's is going to look like. For surely there are going to be a few new names appearing after the Time Skip. Maybe they will have an exiled gnome trying to make a name for himself among humans (perhaps one day becoming a Playable race in his own right - radical!!). Fighting off prejudices and the stereotypes of being 'uncool' that come with being gnomish. ;) Carrying a pair of smokepowder weapons, a devil may care attitude and an introspective and angst-ridden personality - he's sure to put Gnomes back on the map!!:cool: One thing I've wondered is if they'll be making a major wizard of Danilo Thann. They've been nudging him in that direction for a while. |
| Storm_Silverhand10-12-07, 07:18 PM | Heya, Would you rather him pick a female character? What was her name again? Elistine or somthing...one I always see you talking about...is it me or is it coincidental that she is your faviorate character on the basis that she is a women? Also the mention to Kemp that you "miss Varra". It tells me you are biast (assuming that you are a female yourself that is) But please don't take it to heart friend, I am no more than a hippocrite pointing out a flaw in you that I see in myself. Umm... ExtinctionBeta? MarcusTay63's post was a JOKE. You know.... JOKING... That's why Rin was laughing. Laughing at a joke she found amusing. (I didn't find it that funny, but then again I tend to groan rather than laugh at bad jokes... so it got a groan out of me.) I don't know how this was an appropriate response to her post. (It's Eilistraee, by the way, the goddess of Good Drow, Moonlight, Swordwork, and Hunting - a deity I also happen to have a great deal of admiration for...) I just want to know... Why the heck do you read Realms novels anyway? You're never going to get a novel where the protagonist fails, because most people don't like reading novels like that. I think I'm about ready to put you, Extinction "Farewell all" (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=914768) Beta, on /ignore (I haven't yet, I'm curious to see your response to this post). Trolls aren't fun, and I just committed the cardinal sin of feeding one. Oh well. :bored: |
| ExtinctionBeta10-12-07, 08:03 PM | Rinonalyrna Fathomlin, I am sorry and owe you an apology. Yes, the joke did go over my head, and once again I assumed too much being a dick. But I guess, it's a lesson learned. Maybe my mistakes on this forum will help me to be more mature. I even PMed Paul Kemp and asked him about a question in the book and also mentioned that he probably doesn't like me on the forums from seeing my post. The response I got was: Re: Hey The answer is relatively straightforward -- the spell used by the Tyrran priest was and is not foolproof. That is particularly true when dealing with a hostile subject who is trying to lie. This is illustrated by the fact that the shadow creature within the Overmaster posing as his ghost (planted by Rivalen, you'll remember) did, in fact, lie and get away with it. The assumption of the witnesses, however, was that it was, in fact, the Overmaster's spirit speaking and, because the spirit had no reason to lie (or so they thought), they had no reason to look any deeper. In any event, questioning Endren in the Zone of Truth would have resulted in his denial but would have shown nothing -- he might just be a skillful liar or otherwise able to thwart the spell with countermagic. Understand, too, that the process was not a judicial proceeding but a political one, and when Mirabeta heard what she wanted to hear, she ran with it instantly by ordering Endren's arrest and unleashing chaos in the room. The real truth might have come out if there had ever been a trial, but why would Mirabeta ever allow such a thing? She had no need, having the power to simply cast Endren into prison on the basis of events in the High Council. As for liking you or not liking you, I have no particular feelings either way. I think the tone you strike in the posts I've read is consistently one of immaturity and tactlessness, but so it goes. So even if most of you despise me, I'll still try hard to earn any respect that I may have lost with many of you back. |
| Karsus the Mad10-12-07, 08:42 PM | Trolls aren't fun, and I just committed the cardinal sin of feeding one. Oh well. :bored: Yes you did...naughty Storm! Not to mention becoming one.... Wait...I just did the same...crap... Bad KtM! Bad! |
| MarkusTay6310-12-07, 11:26 PM | (I didn't find it that funny, but then again I tend to groan rather than laugh at bad jokes... so it got a groan out of me.) What can I say? I'm an acquired taste. :D |
| Selvarin10-12-07, 11:40 PM | What can I say? I'm an acquired taste. :D Kinda like limburger cheese? :P |
| MarkusTay6310-12-07, 11:42 PM | Or Caviar... Sticky, gooey, stinky fish-eggs... :yuck: Ya know, I always wondered why people bother to acquire these tastes in the first place. :confused: |
| Lord Karsus10-13-07, 01:02 PM | One thing I've wondered is if they'll be making a major wizard of Danilo Thann. They've been nudging him in that direction for a while. -I don't think so. Out-of-game reasoning: Elaine really isn't employed by WotC anymore. She is writing the final novel of her Songs and Swords series, but other than that, I don't neccesarily know if she has anything else in the works. I don't believe so. In-game reasoning: Danillo has being tailored as his sucessor by Khelben. When Khelben died, Tsarra became his sucessor, unintentionally. She is the new keeper of the Blackstaff and of Blackstaff Tower. Danillo's 'services' aren't really needed anymore. Dan never really appreciated the arcane path, and much prefered the bardic path. Now that his uncle is no longer around, steering him down the roads he wanted Danillo to travel, Dan is the master of his own destiny more now than ever. |
| msatran10-13-07, 03:12 PM | Well, as long as Markus started the ball rolling... I might as well formally apologize to Don Maclean, this is one of the five greatest rock and roll songs of all time I'm ripping off... A long, long time ago... There was a place we used to know... And we all thought we'd be there for a while... And if I knew we stood a chance When RSEs began to prance And they thought that we'd be happy for a while... But Fourth Edition made me nauseous Points of Light was so atrocious It was worse than grim newspapers Curse that crazy Richard Baker.... I can't remember if I cried But I sure felt that those guys lied Destroyed every running game alive The day...that the Realms died... So goodbye to that Ed Greenwood Guy Maybe Castlemourn with his beard shorn will keep things alive. And those wizards three were looking us in the eye And saying "Make a saving throw one more time..." Make a saving throw one more time... Did you write an FRCG And do you pray "God it's not me" When the designers tell you so? Do you believe in the old weave And that the seven sisters can save your soul And can you teach me to cast without a stick? Well I know you like to whine and scream That Drizzt's too mighty and Mystra's mean But they're both part of the world, So stop screaming like a little girl... I was just in my first year of college When I cracked that green box of knowledge But now I guess I'm older than Roone Arledge On the day...that the Realms died... So goodbye to that Ed Greenwood Guy Maybe Castlemourn with his beard shorn will keep things alive. And those wizards three were looking us in the eye And saying "Make a saving throw one more time..." Make a saving throw one more time... Now we've got ten years to be on our own Before the spellplague comes and we're alone But that's not how it used to be... When Ed Greenwood was still in charge Dressed like Elminster, not living large And his voice was still meant for having fun... And while Ed Greenwood was looking round Hasbro came and stuffed him in the ground No contract could survive They couldn't keep the Realms alive... And while Steven Schend struggled with Netherese And Richard Baker gave us cheese We all thought we'd get a timefreeze The day that the Realms died... And we were singing So goodbye to that Ed Greenwood Guy Maybe Castlemourn with his beard shorn will keep things alive. And those wizards three were looking us in the eye And saying "Make a saving throw one more time..." Make a saving throw one more time... Hacking with a winter cough Durnan the Wanderer wandered off His bastard sword went somewhere else His wife stuffed it up on the shelf. The Red Sashes replaced him with an elf In spite of all he'd done himself... Now Mirt the Moneylender saw his doom And locked himself inside his room We wondered now where Kitten went But her saucy wit just folded and bent. Cause the Evil is cool crowd ambushed us And crushed our storyline to dust They tossed Ed Greenwood off the bus The day that the Realms died... And we were singing... Goodbye to that Ed Greenwood Guy Maybe Castlemourn with his beard shorn will keep things alive. And those wizards three were looking us in the eye And saying "Make a saving throw one more time..." Make a saving throw one more time... There we were, they turned the Simbul blond And told us that they'd still keep Gond Then told us that we had to start again. So Storm be nimble, Storm be true Because you're a bard, there are no rules for you! Because Cyric is Richard Baker's only friend. Oh and as my players played my game They said it was a bloody shame. Some of them said they'd walk. With all this spellplague talk. And as the day of Fourth approached I thought I saw a ghostly coach But Sylune kicked off months ago... The day that the Realms died... So goodbye to that Ed Greenwood Guy Maybe Castlemourn with his beard shorn will keep things alive. And those wizards three were looking us in the eye And saying "Make a saving throw one more time..." Make a saving throw one more time... Eilistraee now sings the blues She's stuck in Lolth's old dirty shoes She just scowled at us as she turned away. I went down to Arvandor Where I saw elves once, years before. But now there were all different kinds instead. And in the streets, the gamers gabbed And in our kidneys, points of light stabbed No matter what words were spoken Our Forgotten Realms was broken. And the three men I admire most (Thanks, Markus) Vangerdahast, Elminster, and Khelben's Ghost Took the Eberron train for the coast The day that the Realms died... And they were singing... So goodbye to that Ed Greenwood Guy Maybe Castlemourn with his beard shorn will keep things alive. And those wizards three were looking us in the eye And saying "Make a saving throw one more time..." Make a saving throw one more time... So goodbye to that Ed Greenwood Guy Maybe Castlemourn with his beard shorn will keep things alive. And those wizards three were looking us in the eye And saying "Make a saving throw one more time..." Make a saving throw one more time... Thank you. I'm here all week. Richard Baker Must Be Stopped! |
| Lord Karsus10-13-07, 03:26 PM | :clap: |
| Selvarin10-13-07, 04:08 PM | -I don't think so. Out-of-game reasoning: Elaine really isn't employed by WotC anymore. She is writing the final novel of her Songs and Swords series, but other than that, I don't neccesarily know if she has anything else in the works. I don't believe so. In-game reasoning: Danillo has being tailored as his sucessor by Khelben. When Khelben died, Tsarra became his sucessor, unintentionally. She is the new keeper of the Blackstaff and of Blackstaff Tower. Danillo's 'services' aren't really needed anymore. Dan never really appreciated the arcane path, and much prefered the bardic path. Now that his uncle is no longer around, steering him down the roads he wanted Danillo to travel, Dan is the master of his own destiny more now than ever. That never stopped a company from publishing books using another's literary creations in them. You're right, his services aren't needed much anymore, but alas neither are his bard's services. Unless they wait for the 4e PHB II with the bard class in there. And as msatran's cover song points out, Storm with her bard levels, hmmm...oh well, wait and see. P.S. msatran, that was a clever cover version (Kudos!) but also perhaps you should graduate from "Richard Baker Must Be Stopped!" to a Britney-esque "Leave the Realms Alone!" tear on Youtube. Really, get some mascara and flip on the waterworks. If they can do it for OJ and Brit you can do it for the Realms. :D |
| Lord Karsus10-13-07, 05:24 PM | That never stopped a company from publishing books using another's literary creations in them. -Good point. However, thus far, Danillo has never been used by anyone except for Elaine. The fact that he hasn't appeared in anything since her last novel demonstrates that he isn't exactly high on anyone's 'List to use'. You're right, his services aren't needed much anymore, but alas neither are his bard's services. Unless they wait for the 4e PHB II with the bard class in there. And as msatran's cover song points out, Storm with her bard levels, hmmm...oh well, wait and see. -His services might not be needed, but deep down, Danillo is a bard at heart. I don't care about what the PHB, or PHBII, or 4e say about him- Danillo is a bard. |
| Eli_the_Tanner10-15-07, 12:04 PM | Rinonalyrna Fathomlin, I am sorry and owe you an apology. Yes, the joke did go over my head, and once again I assumed too much being a dick. But I guess, it's a lesson learned. Maybe my mistakes on this forum will help me to be more mature. So even if most of you despise me, I'll still try hard to earn any respect that I may have lost with many of you back. :tiphat: Respect for trying ExtinctionBeta and for a humble and considerate post. |
| Suin Bahhar10-15-07, 01:09 PM | Aw, how sweet! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin10-16-07, 07:05 PM | Does anyone else get the distinct impression that the joke went right over ExtinctionBeta's head? Yes! |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin10-16-07, 07:09 PM | Rinonalyrna Fathomlin, I am sorry and owe you an apology. Yes, the joke did go over my head, and once again I assumed too much being a dick. Indeed. Apology accepted though. But I guess, it's a lesson learned. We'll see. Don't take it personally, I'm just a skeptical person by nature. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin10-16-07, 07:15 PM | :clap: Ditto! But Fourth Edition made me nauseous Points of Light was so atrocious It was worse than grim newspapers Curse that crazy Richard Baker.... He doesn't know when to stop. :rofl: |
| MarkusTay6310-16-07, 11:59 PM | But he must be STOPPED!!! :eek: Think of the children. :nonono: ;) :P |
| Stigger10-17-07, 01:17 AM | I have no idea what any of this is about now that its come to this point... |
| 18DELTA10-18-07, 10:47 AM | But he must be STOPPED!!! :eek: Think of the children. :nonono ;) :P No, think of the kittens!!! |