Red Wizard Enclave on Another World? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Red Wizard Enclave on Another World? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Danahan
09-18-07, 06:40 PM I know very, very little about Thay. I’ve played in a FR campaign before, but we were restricted to the areas of Waterdeep and Baulder’s Gate, which as far as I know, are very far west of Thay. Nonetheless, I have had interest in the red wizards and their enclaves. I am wondering if it would be feasible for the red wizards to travel to other worlds (via planar travel and such) seeking to establish enclaves on foreign worlds. My campaign world is totally different (harkening to Ravenloft and Gothic Earth), but I’m interested in having a red wizard NPC who has been stranded. She isn’t necessarily trying to find a way back either. What do you guys think?
Lord Karsus
09-18-07, 06:49 PM -As the Red Wizards are certainly a very industrial sort, it makes perfect sense for them to establish enclaves not only across Faerūn, but across the entire multiverse as well. In the past, D&D settings have had a whole lot of cross pollination via Planescape and Spelljammer. What you are preposing is a great idea, and one that I've used in my campaign setting- not exactly, but one very similar.
sillaric_culdanin
09-19-07, 04:30 PM Let me second what LK has said... its not just doable but an excellent idea to add spice. One would think that the brain-trust behind the magic-trinket Wal-Mart scheme would love the idea of pandering low cost magic to a world where their kind doesn't have to overcome the stigma attached to them across much of Faerun.
MarkusTay63
09-19-07, 07:36 PM If you read Darklords, there WAS a Red Wizard associated with Ravenloft. Morphayus, a powerful Red Wizard, created the Panther-man known as Urik Von Kharkov, a Darklord of the Land of Dread.

So yeah... its entirely possible. ;)
Old Sage
09-19-07, 08:37 PM And, of course, there is also the Hazlik, a Red Wizard formerly of Thay and now Darklord of Hazlan in the Domains of Dread.

Note however, that the Red Wizard connection between RAVENLOFT and the FORGOTTEN REALMS has been slowly phased out in 3e, given both the separation of cosmologies and the former product being published under a third-party license.
MarkusTay63
09-19-07, 10:27 PM I Knew there was one who was actually a Darklord hmself, but I couldn't remember where.

You know, GH got Vecna back, and DL got Lord Soth back... there must of not been a whole lot left when WotC was 'kind' enough to franchise it out.
Danahan
09-19-07, 10:45 PM Excellent. I don’t know if I want to use Khalia straight out of FR, or create an entirely new character. Anyone know of any other descent female red wizards? Or does anyone want to help me put one together?
Lord Karsus
09-20-07, 12:42 PM Anyone know of any other descent female red wizards?

-Off-hand, I can't think of any specific names, but I don't believe that there are any prohibitions against female Red Wizards. Thus, you literally have an infinite list to choose from, as you can 'port an established NPC, or just make your own. I'd recommend the latter, so you can piece together a backstory and have it relevant to your campaign.
MarkusTay63
09-20-07, 01:17 PM My campaign world is totally different (harkening to Ravenloft and Gothic Earth), but I’m interested in having a red wizard NPC who has been stranded. She isn’t necessarily trying to find a way back either. What do you guys think?Just out of curiousity, are you running an 'alternate Earth' type setting?

I've been thinking of doing that for years myself, but I can't find a group interested in the genre. Sort of a Gothic/Steampunk/Cthulhu type world, with bits of the Weird West rules thrown in. The Gothic Earth Gazeteer was one of my favorite TSR products, so I was just wondering where you may have taken that.
Danahan
09-20-07, 06:40 PM Just out of curiousity, are you running an 'alternate Earth' type setting?

I've been thinking of doing that for years myself, but I can't find a group interested in the genre. Sort of a Gothic/Steampunk/Cthulhu type world, with bits of the Weird West rules thrown in. The Gothic Earth Gazeteer was one of my favorite TSR products, so I was just wondering where you may have taken that.

It is a homebrew world very similar to Ravenloft, however, with the technological sophistication of Gothic Earth.

Here's a thread with a little bit of info about the campaign: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=925891

Does anyone know what an enclave looks like? What sort of buildings are there? Architecture styles? That sort of thing.
Calmar
09-20-07, 07:11 PM Each one looks different, ranging from wooden camps to strongholds built from stone. FRCS and Lords of Darkness have one and there are two in Mysteries of the Moonsea (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20060621a). I guess they look like a combination of the host country's architecture with ancient Middle-Eastern or (light) Egyptian style elements.
Old Sage
09-20-07, 08:01 PM Excellent. I don’t know if I want to use Khalia straight out of FR, or create an entirely new character. Anyone know of any other descent female red wizards? Or does anyone want to help me put one together?With a minimum of effort, Naglatha [detailed in the Spellbound boxed set] would be an appropiate choice. An Enchanter with a focus on developing alternate identities useful for pursuing her many goals, the particular guise of a Selgauntan merchant and trader could be just what you're looking for in terms of an "adventuring merchant" looking to set up shop in the Domains of Dread.
Old Sage
09-20-07, 08:02 PM -Off-hand, I can't think of any specific names, but I don't believe that there are any prohibitions against female Red Wizards. Thus, you literally have an infinite list to choose from, as you can 'port an established NPC, or just make your own. I'd recommend the latter, so you can piece together a backstory and have it relevant to your campaign.There are female Red Wizards -- given that the Zulkirs are chosen from among the ranks of Red Wizards. And we know there are several female Zulkirs.

There have been a few female Red Wizards noted in previous sources. Lords of Darkness is the one tome that immediately comes to mind. Additionally, take a look through Kuje's NPC listings (http://home.rochester.rr.com/kuje/).
Old Sage
09-20-07, 08:03 PM Does anyone know what an enclave looks like? What sort of buildings are there? Architecture styles? That sort of thing.Take a look at the detailed coverage of the Proskur Enclave in the entry for the Red Wizards in Lords of Darkness.
The Simbul
09-20-07, 11:36 PM In planar adventures and other campaign settings I have generally used the Mercanes as the default interplanar merchants of magical and exotic items, usually by advancing them with wizard levels (which is their favored class/default advancement method), which in turn enables them to create magic items in addition to selling/distributing them.

In fact, even in Faerūn I have generally not had much use for the Red Wizard enclaves, either as a player or as a DM. This is because;
* Any magic item can already be readily found and purchased in any given city provided that it's market price is equal to or less than the gold spending limit of the community.
* In a 4-5 person party you can have enough item creation feats distributed across multiple party members to cover the basic needs in terms of equipment...even if there is not a wizard among them (i.e. bard, cleric, fighter, ranger, sorcerer).
* Being a member of a guild or organization (i.e. those detailed in City of Splendors: Waterdeep, their generic equivalents in the Dungeon Master's Guide II, or mage guilds in Magic of Faerūn) can already grant you a discount on magic items. More importantly, you know that your gold is being re-invested into an organization that shares your goals and ideals, rather than paying for your own invasion by malign outside forces.
* Why settle for a 10% discount on relatively weak magic items at your early levels when you can besiege and sack the entire enclave later on?

That said, I am in favor of a Red Wizard exploratory expedition to Eberron, for once they realize how magically rich the world is and how relatively weak its inhabitants are, they can suddenly give up on Faerūn and invade full force.

Yes, send ALL the Red Wizards to Eberron, they can lay waste to each other, and in the process kill off two threats (be they direct and indirect) to the Realms with one stone. :mage:
Calmar
09-21-07, 06:43 AM * Why settle for a 10% discount on relatively weak magic items at your early levels when you can besiege and sack the entire enclave later on?
At your later levels you can kill everybody. That's simple and that's fun and that's why we play the game. :rolleyes:
MarkusTay63
09-21-07, 12:14 PM Actually, the correct answer would be -

Because they are not just merchants, Thayan Enclaves also act as embassies between Thay and the country they are located in. Even in a country that would applaud it's destruction, like Tethyr, you would still be arrested for killing foriegn ambassadors and most likely put to death.

The Mercane are good for extra-planar, but if he's running a Gothic Earth style campaign, it becomes a little hard to hide the fact that they are not human.
Lord Karsus
09-21-07, 02:59 PM The Mercane are good for extra-planar, but if he's running a Gothic Earth style campaign, it becomes a little hard to hide the fact that they are not human.

-A simple spell, and that's all taken care of.
1 ton ghost
09-21-07, 03:28 PM this is sound thinking for a nice mircocosm of PC's of Thayan origin. nj.
ex) red wizard, wizard's thayan knight, 1 divine (bane, kossuth, any thayan heavy god, 1 face man (rogue type)
national solidarity means they have to play nice and is a good backbone for a "morally flexible" campaign; helps keep PCs from screwing each other over given questionable alignments...that is, big brother wants them to support each other and foster growth and good will in the enclave.

it's a good excuse to "explore new worlds" and all that via StarTrek and make a tidy profit while at the same time establishing political/diplomatic relationships. what better way to win over a foreign power than w/ cheap arcane/military support?

reminds me of our abundant arms we sell for cheap to the saudis for their oil, etc.

someone mentioned this, enclaves are Thayan soil by the letter of their law. Extraterritoriality, like megacorps in Shadowrun.
yeah, killing said Thayan embassador in city 'x' will put you in hot water w/ country 'x', but if you do it in the enclave, you can bet the host country justice will be merciful compared to most Thayan standards. there is the extradition wild card though. if enough political pressure was applied to the Thanays, say, a trade embargo on entire enclave, they might be inclined to yield to host country on said criminal.
good business is where you find it.
Danahan
09-21-07, 06:47 PM These names are the ones I would like to use for the heavy players in the Thayan enclave. However, I don't know if they sound very... Thayan like.

Cabrime
Mulkaar
Ascoondus
Rornaah
GothicDan
09-22-07, 12:54 PM Ascoondus, no, and maybe not Cabrime.

I'd change it to Askundis and Cabrimer/Cabrimir.
sleyvas
09-26-07, 02:53 PM Excellent. I don’t know if I want to use Khalia straight out of FR, or create an entirely new character. Anyone know of any other descent female red wizards? Or does anyone want to help me put one together?

Daeronness Shenandra Tarsorek of Malyk (cleric3 (Talos/Malyk)/wizard (invoker)3/mystic theurge8/red wizard5).

An extremely aggressive female (in the bedroom, the political arena, and in a fight) who uses her magic to subjugate and prostrate her enemies. She believes in a strong show of power, and thus her following of Malyk (alias of Talos for Wild and Destructive Magic). She would make a great enclave leader on another plane, for she could be bringing her faith to the folk there... win their favor by destroying their enemies... enslave any remaining "enemies" for transport back to Thay.... and there wouldn't be the normal stigma associated with Thay.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Danahan 09-18-07, 06:40 PM	I know very, very little about Thay. I’ve played in a FR campaign before, but we were restricted to the areas of Waterdeep and Baulder’s Gate, which as far as I know, are very far west of Thay. Nonetheless, I have had interest in the red wizards and their enclaves. I am wondering if it would be feasible for the red wizards to travel to other worlds (via planar travel and such) seeking to establish enclaves on foreign worlds. My campaign world is totally different (harkening to Ravenloft and Gothic Earth), but I’m interested in having a red wizard NPC who has been stranded. She isn’t necessarily trying to find a way back either. What do you guys think?
Lord Karsus 09-18-07, 06:49 PM	-As the Red Wizards are certainly a very industrial sort, it makes perfect sense for them to establish enclaves not only across Faerūn, but across the entire multiverse as well. In the past, D&D settings have had a whole lot of cross pollination via Planescape and Spelljammer. What you are preposing is a great idea, and one that I've used in my campaign setting- not exactly, but one very similar.
sillaric_culdanin 09-19-07, 04:30 PM	Let me second what LK has said... its not just doable but an excellent idea to add spice. One would think that the brain-trust behind the magic-trinket Wal-Mart scheme would love the idea of pandering low cost magic to a world where their kind doesn't have to overcome the stigma attached to them across much of Faerun.
MarkusTay63 09-19-07, 07:36 PM	If you read Darklords, there WAS a Red Wizard associated with Ravenloft. Morphayus, a powerful Red Wizard, created the Panther-man known as Urik Von Kharkov, a Darklord of the Land of Dread. So yeah... its entirely possible. ;)
Old Sage 09-19-07, 08:37 PM	And, of course, there is also the Hazlik, a Red Wizard formerly of Thay and now Darklord of Hazlan in the Domains of Dread. Note however, that the Red Wizard connection between RAVENLOFT and the FORGOTTEN REALMS has been slowly phased out in 3e, given both the separation of cosmologies and the former product being published under a third-party license.
MarkusTay63 09-19-07, 10:27 PM	I Knew there was one who was actually a Darklord hmself, but I couldn't remember where. You know, GH got Vecna back, and DL got Lord Soth back... there must of not been a whole lot left when WotC was 'kind' enough to franchise it out.
Danahan 09-19-07, 10:45 PM	Excellent. I don’t know if I want to use Khalia straight out of FR, or create an entirely new character. Anyone know of any other descent female red wizards? Or does anyone want to help me put one together?
Lord Karsus 09-20-07, 12:42 PM	Anyone know of any other descent female red wizards? -Off-hand, I can't think of any specific names, but I don't believe that there are any prohibitions against female Red Wizards. Thus, you literally have an infinite list to choose from, as you can 'port an established NPC, or just make your own. I'd recommend the latter, so you can piece together a backstory and have it relevant to your campaign.
MarkusTay63 09-20-07, 01:17 PM	My campaign world is totally different (harkening to Ravenloft and Gothic Earth), but I’m interested in having a red wizard NPC who has been stranded. She isn’t necessarily trying to find a way back either. What do you guys think?Just out of curiousity, are you running an 'alternate Earth' type setting? I've been thinking of doing that for years myself, but I can't find a group interested in the genre. Sort of a Gothic/Steampunk/Cthulhu type world, with bits of the Weird West rules thrown in. The Gothic Earth Gazeteer was one of my favorite TSR products, so I was just wondering where you may have taken that.
Danahan 09-20-07, 06:40 PM	Just out of curiousity, are you running an 'alternate Earth' type setting? I've been thinking of doing that for years myself, but I can't find a group interested in the genre. Sort of a Gothic/Steampunk/Cthulhu type world, with bits of the Weird West rules thrown in. The Gothic Earth Gazeteer was one of my favorite TSR products, so I was just wondering where you may have taken that. It is a homebrew world very similar to Ravenloft, however, with the technological sophistication of Gothic Earth. Here's a thread with a little bit of info about the campaign: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=925891 Does anyone know what an enclave looks like? What sort of buildings are there? Architecture styles? That sort of thing.
Calmar 09-20-07, 07:11 PM	Each one looks different, ranging from wooden camps to strongholds built from stone. FRCS and Lords of Darkness have one and there are two in Mysteries of the Moonsea (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20060621a). I guess they look like a combination of the host country's architecture with ancient Middle-Eastern or (light) Egyptian style elements.
Old Sage 09-20-07, 08:01 PM	Excellent. I don’t know if I want to use Khalia straight out of FR, or create an entirely new character. Anyone know of any other descent female red wizards? Or does anyone want to help me put one together?With a minimum of effort, Naglatha [detailed in the Spellbound boxed set] would be an appropiate choice. An Enchanter with a focus on developing alternate identities useful for pursuing her many goals, the particular guise of a Selgauntan merchant and trader could be just what you're looking for in terms of an "adventuring merchant" looking to set up shop in the Domains of Dread.
Old Sage 09-20-07, 08:02 PM	-Off-hand, I can't think of any specific names, but I don't believe that there are any prohibitions against female Red Wizards. Thus, you literally have an infinite list to choose from, as you can 'port an established NPC, or just make your own. I'd recommend the latter, so you can piece together a backstory and have it relevant to your campaign.There are female Red Wizards -- given that the Zulkirs are chosen from among the ranks of Red Wizards. And we know there are several female Zulkirs. There have been a few female Red Wizards noted in previous sources. Lords of Darkness is the one tome that immediately comes to mind. Additionally, take a look through Kuje's NPC listings (http://home.rochester.rr.com/kuje/).
Old Sage 09-20-07, 08:03 PM	Does anyone know what an enclave looks like? What sort of buildings are there? Architecture styles? That sort of thing.Take a look at the detailed coverage of the Proskur Enclave in the entry for the Red Wizards in Lords of Darkness.
The Simbul 09-20-07, 11:36 PM	In planar adventures and other campaign settings I have generally used the Mercanes as the default interplanar merchants of magical and exotic items, usually by advancing them with wizard levels (which is their favored class/default advancement method), which in turn enables them to create magic items in addition to selling/distributing them. In fact, even in Faerūn I have generally not had much use for the Red Wizard enclaves, either as a player or as a DM. This is because; * Any magic item can already be readily found and purchased in any given city provided that it's market price is equal to or less than the gold spending limit of the community. * In a 4-5 person party you can have enough item creation feats distributed across multiple party members to cover the basic needs in terms of equipment...even if there is not a wizard among them (i.e. bard, cleric, fighter, ranger, sorcerer). * Being a member of a guild or organization (i.e. those detailed in City of Splendors: Waterdeep, their generic equivalents in the Dungeon Master's Guide II, or mage guilds in Magic of Faerūn) can already grant you a discount on magic items. More importantly, you know that your gold is being re-invested into an organization that shares your goals and ideals, rather than paying for your own invasion by malign outside forces. * Why settle for a 10% discount on relatively weak magic items at your early levels when you can besiege and sack the entire enclave later on? That said, I am in favor of a Red Wizard exploratory expedition to Eberron, for once they realize how magically rich the world is and how relatively weak its inhabitants are, they can suddenly give up on Faerūn and invade full force. Yes, send ALL the Red Wizards to Eberron, they can lay waste to each other, and in the process kill off two threats (be they direct and indirect) to the Realms with one stone. :mage:
Calmar 09-21-07, 06:43 AM	* Why settle for a 10% discount on relatively weak magic items at your early levels when you can besiege and sack the entire enclave later on? At your later levels you can kill everybody. That's simple and that's fun and that's why we play the game. :rolleyes:
MarkusTay63 09-21-07, 12:14 PM	Actually, the correct answer would be - Because they are not just merchants, Thayan Enclaves also act as embassies between Thay and the country they are located in. Even in a country that would applaud it's destruction, like Tethyr, you would still be arrested for killing foriegn ambassadors and most likely put to death. The Mercane are good for extra-planar, but if he's running a Gothic Earth style campaign, it becomes a little hard to hide the fact that they are not human.
Lord Karsus 09-21-07, 02:59 PM	The Mercane are good for extra-planar, but if he's running a Gothic Earth style campaign, it becomes a little hard to hide the fact that they are not human. -A simple spell, and that's all taken care of.
1 ton ghost 09-21-07, 03:28 PM	this is sound thinking for a nice mircocosm of PC's of Thayan origin. nj. ex) red wizard, wizard's thayan knight, 1 divine (bane, kossuth, any thayan heavy god, 1 face man (rogue type) national solidarity means they have to play nice and is a good backbone for a "morally flexible" campaign; helps keep PCs from screwing each other over given questionable alignments...that is, big brother wants them to support each other and foster growth and good will in the enclave. it's a good excuse to "explore new worlds" and all that via StarTrek and make a tidy profit while at the same time establishing political/diplomatic relationships. what better way to win over a foreign power than w/ cheap arcane/military support? reminds me of our abundant arms we sell for cheap to the saudis for their oil, etc. someone mentioned this, enclaves are Thayan soil by the letter of their law. Extraterritoriality, like megacorps in Shadowrun. yeah, killing said Thayan embassador in city 'x' will put you in hot water w/ country 'x', but if you do it in the enclave, you can bet the host country justice will be merciful compared to most Thayan standards. there is the extradition wild card though. if enough political pressure was applied to the Thanays, say, a trade embargo on entire enclave, they might be inclined to yield to host country on said criminal. good business is where you find it.
Danahan 09-21-07, 06:47 PM	These names are the ones I would like to use for the heavy players in the Thayan enclave. However, I don't know if they sound very... Thayan like. Cabrime Mulkaar Ascoondus Rornaah
GothicDan 09-22-07, 12:54 PM	Ascoondus, no, and maybe not Cabrime. I'd change it to Askundis and Cabrimer/Cabrimir.
sleyvas 09-26-07, 02:53 PM	Excellent. I don’t know if I want to use Khalia straight out of FR, or create an entirely new character. Anyone know of any other descent female red wizards? Or does anyone want to help me put one together? Daeronness Shenandra Tarsorek of Malyk (cleric3 (Talos/Malyk)/wizard (invoker)3/mystic theurge8/red wizard5). An extremely aggressive female (in the bedroom, the political arena, and in a fight) who uses her magic to subjugate and prostrate her enemies. She believes in a strong show of power, and thus her following of Malyk (alias of Talos for Wild and Destructive Magic). She would make a great enclave leader on another plane, for she could be bringing her faith to the folk there... win their favor by destroying their enemies... enslave any remaining "enemies" for transport back to Thay.... and there wouldn't be the normal stigma associated with Thay.