Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harr 07-25-07, 12:05 PM	Hey all! I'm going straight to the point. Umm, is the forest of Cormanthor the only place where I can find Vhaeraunites or do they have any other known settlements in Faerun? Thanks! :)
Jhiroth 07-25-07, 12:07 PM	Chaulssin, City of Wyrmshadows is a good place to start.
Harr 07-25-07, 12:08 PM	All righty! What about on the surface?
Faraer 07-25-07, 12:29 PM	Mainly in the Forest of Mir.
Harr 07-25-07, 12:44 PM	Thanks a bunch! :)
Ioulaum 07-25-07, 01:54 PM	Chaulssin, City of Wyrmshadows is a good place to start. Chaulssin is prossibly one of the strongest bastion of support for Vhaeraun. Now that he got beat by Elis, how would they deal with it? Would they turn their support to Elis, especially if she starts taking Male Clerics. Or would they turn to other gods, maybe one of the Dragon gods. They do have a draconic heritage.
MarkusTay63 07-25-07, 02:16 PM	Mainly in the Forest of Mir. Yes, there are three cities of Vhaerunite Drow in the Forest of Mir. An excerpt from my yet-to-be-finished netbook article on dark Elven Realms - Mir, Forest of – This dark and foreboding woodland has long been the home of expatriate Dark Elves. Although there were once rumors of as many as 80,000 Drow living in these woods, the numbers rarely exceeded 12,000. Currently there are some 6500 Vhaerunite Dark Elves living here divided into three settlements. There is some evidence of earlier settlements of Green Elves as well, but those are all currently occupied by the large numbers of Goblins living in the forest. Most prominent of these features is Myth Unnohyr, an unstable Mythal that perhaps dates back to the time of ancient Miyeritar, which could very well mean that some of the Dark Elves in this forest may be descendents of that realm as well, although most arrived here during the Night Wars. The Green Elves may have moved north into the Wealdath in -1700 DR when Calishite nobles began to hunt Elves for sport. For further information, see the Sarenestar entry. and.... Sarenestar – This region, better known as the Forest of Mir, is the home of one of the oldest surface kingdoms of the Dark Elves. There were four cities, along with many smaller settlements. Dallnothax, Iskasshyoll, and Holldaybim still survive, but the capitol, Allsihwhann, was destroyed by a force of surface Elves from Shilmista and the forest of Tethir. Most of the Drow of Sarenestar are Vhaeraun worshippers and keep to themselves, but a portion (25%) worship other gods, and some raid nearby settlements. The Dark Elves of Sarenestar have lived here as long as any of them can remember, and although most of them have visited the Underdark for various reasons, nearly all were born above ground. These Elves have even their own breed of small riding ponies, similar to the ones used by the Tuigen, for use in travel and raiding. In an unfortunate turn of events, this kingdom briefly allied with Calimshan and Aranea from the Spiderswamp to stop a full-scale invasion of Calimshan by the Beholder’s of the Arnaden region (Lake of Steam). This drew the attention of the northern Elves, and soon they invaded and destroyed Allsihwhann, the only city they were aware of. It is an interesting note that nearby settlement of Myth Dyraalis has probably always been aware of the dark Elves existence, but their own desire for anonymity had a led to an ‘unspoken understanding’ between these peoples. and another unrelated realm in the Underdark... Uluitur – After the fall of Deep Shanatar, many monstrous races took over the now-empty caverns of the Dwarves. The most successful of these was a group of Vhaerunite Drow who have taken up residence in Ultoksamrin, renaming their new city Uluitur. Another anomaly of the deep realms, this locale extends a warm welcome to any who come here with good intentions. The leader of this city, Vokkrzyr Raulfren, has put out a general offer to any surface dwellers, most especially Elves, to visit and enjoy his hospitality. In fact, he seeks allies in helping him attack other Drow settlements, like the nearby metropolis of Guallidurth. Although his intentions are not exactly pure, his desire to crush Lolth worshipping Drow has enamored him to several surface groups.
Green Elven Vampire 07-25-07, 03:21 PM	The High Forest also has a small settlement of Vhaeraun followers if I remember correctly.
Zanan 07-25-07, 03:39 PM	Do note that Chaulssin is not necessarily a stronghold of the Vhaeraunite drow. Read the web-enhancement to Dragons of Faerūn who is mainly based on exactly that city. They "show" allegiance to Vhaeraun.
Lord Dracul 07-27-07, 07:34 AM	Do note that Chaulssin is not necessarily a stronghold of the Vhaeraunite drow. Read the web-enhancement to Dragons of Faerūn who is mainly based on exactly that city. They "show" allegiance to Vhaeraun. Also note that Xorthaul Barriath is a Cleric of Vhaeraun. Therefore, they do venerate Vhaeraun. Also, the Dragon's Hoard might be resurrected. They were located in Skullport.
Zanan 07-27-07, 12:23 PM	Also note that Xorthaul Barriath is a Cleric of Vhaeraun. Therefore, they do venerate Vhaeraun. Also, the Dragon's Hoard might be resurrected. They were located in Skullport. I didn't say they don't. But Chaulssin is not inhabited by drow and while they do pay hommage to him, it is hardly with any sort of affection like you generally expect from drow. Methinks Eric L. Boyd said something along those lines as well. Vhaeraun suits them now and getting influence among the drow males - who are still belonging to a powerful race - suit the drowdragons' aims too. But if they need someone else, I doubt that they would hesitate that long.
Lord Dracul 07-27-07, 01:07 PM	I didn't say they don't. But Chaulssin is not inhabited by drow and while they do pay hommage to him, it is hardly with any sort of affection like you generally expect from drow. Methinks Eric L. Boyd said something along those lines as well. Vhaeraun suits them now and getting influence among the drow males - who are still belonging to a powerful race - suit the drowdragons' aims too. But if they need someone else, I doubt that they would hesitate that long. I think they would continue to follow Vhaeraun.
Ioulaum 07-27-07, 02:33 PM	I think they would continue to follow Vhaeraun. Well Vhaeraun is dead so that is that.
Lord Dracul 07-27-07, 02:42 PM	Well Vhaeraun is dead so that is that. Nobody knows for sure and assuming he is dead is all it is, assumption. Vhaeraun planned for this little defeat and will come back when we least expect it.
Zanan 07-28-07, 04:54 AM	I think they would continue to follow Vhaeraun. The problem with him is that he is just a "turn the tables on the females and Lolth deity" with no real plan bar that. I doubt that is something the drowdragons look for as well. For I assume them not as relgigious a bunch as moyt of the other drow are ... or let's put it the other way 'round: religion in their realms takes as much prominence as it does with a normal city on the surface. It is just part of life, but nothing dominant. In four weeks we will know more about Vhaeraun, Eilistraee and Co..
Lord Dracul 07-28-07, 05:48 AM	The problem with him is that he is just a "turn the tables on the females and Lolth deity" with no real plan bar that. I doubt that is something the drowdragons look for as well. For I assume them not as relgigious a bunch as moyt of the other drow are ... or let's put it the other way 'round: religion in their realms takes as much prominence as it does with a normal city on the surface. It is just part of life, but nothing dominant. In four weeks we will know more about Vhaeraun, Eilistraee and Co.. Vhaeraun has more than that planned. Remember his ultimate goal is to reunite the Drow with their surface cousins.
Fillow 07-28-07, 08:32 AM	In four weeks we will know more about Vhaeraun, Eilistraee and Co.. Could you please explain why in four weeks ?
DarkSongKnight 07-28-07, 09:03 AM	Could you please explain why in four weeks ? In four weeks is when "Storm of the Dead", the second book in "The Lady Penitent" series, comes out.
Fillow 07-28-07, 09:13 AM	In four weeks is when "Storm of the Dead", the second book in "The Lady Penitent" series, comes out. Of course. How stupid I am. Thanks a lot DSK. I read that it exists the Dark Dagger, a guild of drow rogues active in the past in Turmish, the Vilhon Reach. It now act in Skullport. Within this guild serve priests of Vhaeraun. Is it still up-to-date ?
DarkSongKnight 07-28-07, 09:41 AM	I read that it exists the Dark Dagger, a guild of drow rogues active in the past in Turmish, the Vilhon Reach. It now act in Skullport. Within this guild serve priests of Vhaeraun. Is it still up-to-date ? Well, the guild itself would still be intact. However, if you take into account the events in "Sacrifice of the Widow", it may have fallen apart, or at least had some of it's members leave. Either way, the guild might definitely have lost some of it's potency. Also note that the events in "Sacrifice of the Widow" do not occur until 1375.
Zanan 07-28-07, 10:29 AM	Vhaeraun has more than that planned. Remember his ultimate goal is to reunite the Drow with their surface cousins. Whom do you refer too? The FR drow, about 80% plus hate their surface cousins with a passion rivaled only by the hate they receive from the surface elves. What Vhaeraun wants does not really matter to the large populace of Faerūn's drow for ages to come. As for "four weeks", Storm of the Dead - Lady Penitent II is out (according to Amazon) by August 28th. Do note that the Dark Dagger agents are still operative in Expedition to Undermountain, so they are there (and have been since Skullport), as is the "de-facto Matron" of House Tanor-Thal. Have a look at the Skullport entry hereabouts: http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=420
DarkSongKnight 07-28-07, 12:12 PM	Do note that the Dark Dagger agents are still operative in Expedition to Undermountain, so they are there (and have been since Skullport), as is the "de-facto Matron" of House Tanor-Thal. Have a look at the Skullport entry hereabouts: http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=420 Thank you for that very useful information Zanan. :) Theres a drow by the name of Amryyr Yauntyrr? Wouldn't that signify a relations to Danifae Yauntyrr? Or is this still unknown/unconfirmed?
Lord Dracul 07-28-07, 12:33 PM	Whom do you refer too? The FR drow, about 80% plus hate their surface cousins with a passion rivaled only by the hate they receive from the surface elves. What Vhaeraun wants does not really matter to the large populace of Faerūn's drow for ages to come. That is because of the lies that the Priestesses of Lolth feed their kin.
Red_Wizard 07-28-07, 12:50 PM	Story wise maybe, but lore wise little has changed.
Zanan 07-29-07, 04:44 AM	That is because of the lies that the Priestesses of Lolth feed their kin. Aye right :rolleyes: ... Curse of Corellon had nothing to do with it. @ Darksong Knight ... no relation has been established as yet, but he may very well be a refugee or renegade from that very same city. Do note that he was about long before the WotSQ Danifae and her House entered the scene.
Lord Dracul 07-29-07, 09:58 AM	Aye right :rolleyes: ... Curse of Corellon had nothing to do with it. Well, then he was a fool. Just because his former lover was a bad apple don't mean that the other Drow would follow in her footsteps.
Red_Wizard 07-29-07, 10:38 AM	Correlon cast lolth down at the same time he laid the curse upon her followers. It was the Ilythiiri who were commiting the atrocious crimes in her name. Granted there may have been a scant few innocent amongst them, who were yet punished for the crimes of the others, but the bitterness spurred on by their transformation, and banishment has made few sympathizers for their faerie kin. This being said, all the drow pantheon save Eilistraee were "Bad apples" so he hardly condemmed them injustly. He questioned Eilistraee as to why she had to leave as she had not been one of those to do wrong against The People, and she responded by saying she left willingly to be the salvation she believed the drow culture would need one day if they were to return to the light.
Ioulaum 07-29-07, 12:30 PM	Correlon cast lolth down at the same time he laid the curse upon her followers. It was the Ilythiiri who were commiting the atrocious crimes in her name. Granted there may have been a scant few innocent amongst them, who were yet punished for the crimes of the others, but the bitterness spurred on by their transformation, and banishment has made few sympathizers for their faerie kin. The Drows were cast down thousands of thusands of years after the Lloth's fall. They did not fall a the same time.
Lord Dracul 07-29-07, 04:16 PM	The Drows were cast down thousands of thusands of years after the Lloth's fall. They did not fall a the same time. Thats true. Couldn't have said it better myself. Did some diggin and while I couldn't find actual dates, the previous statement does support the following: Long before the elves first travelled to Abeir-Toril from the original elven homeland of Tintageer on the magical world of Faerie, Lolth was known as Araushnee, the "Weaver of Destiny", a Lesser deity of the Seldarine, the elven pantheon of gods. As a goddess of weavers and a spinner of fate, the destiny of the Ssri-Tel'Quessir (dark elves) was placed in the hands of Araushnee by the decree of Corellon Larethian, Creator of the Elves and leader of the Seldarine, in addition to being the consort of Araushnee. The union between Corellon Larethian and the Weaver of Destiny in the form of two children, the Lesser deities Vhaeraun, the Masked Lord, and Eilistraee, the Dark Maiden. Despite all of this, Araushnee was a jealous schemer who envied Corellon and secretly planned to overthrow him and replace him as First of the Seldarine and Coronal of Arvandor. Allying herself with Gruumsh, leader of the orcish pantheon and an arch-nemesis to Corellon, Araushnee attempted to have her consort assassinated by using her position as a loved one of Corellon. Her many attempts to kill the First of the Seldarine failed and eventually these plots were discovered by Sehanine Moonbow, the most powerful goddess of the Seldarine, who had also been suspicious of Araushnee's true motivations. Upon confronting the Weaver of Destiny, Sehanine Moonbow was imprisoned by the traitor goddess. Seeing an opportunity, Araushnee was roused to action and she, Gruumsh and her son Vhaeraun, another co-conspirator in Araushnee's plots, gathered together a great alliance of Greater and Lesser deities of the orcs, goblinoids, kobolds, giants, ogres and many other gods of the evil races. This army of deities was also joined by Malar, god of evil werebeasts, Auril, the savage Frostmaiden and Ghaunadaur, or That Which Lurks, a primordial evil and a future member of the Dark Seldarine. The god-army marched on Arvandor, facing Corellon Larethian and the rest of the Seldarine (bar Sehanine Moonbow, who was still imprisoned), including Eilistraee, who was unaware of her mother's treachery. During the battle that followed, Araushnee and Vhaeraun feigned to fight for the Seldarine while attempting to aid the opposing army, Araushnee even going so far as to redirect an arrow fired by her daughter to hit Corellon. Amid the course of the battle, Sehanine Moonbow managed to escape her imprisonment and revealed the treachery and betrayal of Araushnee to Corellon. The battle for Arvandor was eventually won, the evil army of beast gods eventually driven off by the combined might of the assembled Seldarine and the other fey deities of Arborea. As the battle was being fought, Corellon Larethian faced his betrayer. Araushnee once again tried to kill her former lover but the intervention of three elven goddesses prevented this. Sehanine Moonbow, Hanali Celanil and Aerdrie Faenya had all come to battle Araushnee the Weaver and, coalescing their collective powers into a new form they created the goddess Angharradh, a new consort to Corellon and an equal to him in power. Araushnee was swiftly defeated by Angharradh. Corellon looked upon the defeated form of his betrayer, mother of his children and once beloved by him, it was then that the First of the Seldarine broken-heartedly cursed his love, Araushnee the Weaver of Destiny, into the form of a hideous spider-bodied tanar'ri, stripping her of her divinity and branding her with the name Lolth and casted her into the Abyss, never to return. Corellon also banished Vhaeraun, knowing of his son's duplicity and involvement in his mother's plots. Though Corellon knew his daughter's innocence, Eilistraee chose to share the fate of her mother and brother, the Dark Maiden no doubt sensing that the dark elves would one day need a reprieve from the path of hate and evil that they would eventually set upon, following their dark goddess; their Spider Queen. In the Abyss, many millennia passed by as Lolth raged bitterly over her failed plans, along the way rejecting the advances of Ghaunadaur and sending it into a terrible rage, during which it stole the intellect of many of its followers, effectively robbing itself of most of its power, power which it has only recently regained. However, the Queen of Spiders learned an important lesson from That Which Lurks, by gaining the worship of mortals she could return to her former level of power and beyond. Revealing herself to the dark elven races on various worlds, especially Abeir-Toril, Lolth regained her divinity, achieving part of her ultimate goal to wreak terrible vengeance on Corellon Larethian and the Seldarine. Lolth was the secret power behind many of the dark elven houses of Ilythiir during the terrible Crown Wars that waged between the great elven empires of an age long ago. When the clerics of lost Illefarn prayed to the Seldarine for salvation from the evil elves of Ilythiir and the avatar of Corellon Larethian cursed all Ssri-Tel'Quessir to share the fate of their Abyssmal mother, naming them dhaeraow and divorcing them from the light of day, Lolth led her people into the Underdark, mirroring her own fall from Arvandor so long before. Again, Lolth broke Corellon's heart with this Descent. The dark elves were sundered forever from their creator and all Tel'Quessir, and again Lolth had taken another step in her quest for vengeance against Corellon and his Seldarine.
Zanan 07-29-07, 05:31 PM	@ Lord Dracul ... who wrote that story above? I almost shed a tear for all these betrayed folk and those broken hearts in there. Surely treehugger lore, ain't it? :evillaugh BTW, within Realmspace, she "regained" her divinity pretty quickly, since she showed herself as a goddess to the Ilythiiri. The Crown Wars which eventually led to the downfall of the entire Elven race as rulers of Faerūn were not instigated by Lolth or the dark elves alone, so please, don't paint the surface folk and their deities in those white and shining, nigh virtuous colours. Anyway, lots of threads have been used on this topic and I haven't got the time right now to start another debate on the good, the bad or the ugly again. Cormanthyr and Lost Empires of Faerūn is all you need to read to gain an objective view on the matter.
Ioulaum 07-29-07, 06:08 PM	Elane Cunningham form the novel Evermeet. Lloth fast track her way back to divinity by seducing a Llythiiri wizard name Ka'Narlist form slimy. Ka'Narlist was/is a very very powerful wizard converted the worship of his lands to Lloth. Ka'Narlist was though to have perish when Evermeet was created and the contentiant was torn asunder but no god has ever been able to account for his soul or a cloak of his which was bound with the souls of hundreds of sea-elves.
Zanan 07-29-07, 07:01 PM	Dunno, but from my recollections of the novel, Lolth did indeed seduce said wizard, but neither had he anything to do with introducing her worship to the Ilythiiri, nor had he any great influence on the nation as a whole required to do such. He did indeed die during the Sundering - one of a number of High Magic rituals gone horribly wrong.
Ioulaum 07-29-07, 07:59 PM	Dunno, but from my recollections of the novel, Lolth did indeed seduce said wizard, but neither had he anything to do with introducing her worship to the Ilythiiri, nor had he any great influence on the nation as a whole required to do such. He did indeed die during the Sundering - one of a number of High Magic rituals gone horribly wrong. Loloth at the time didn't have any worshippers on Toril and Ka'Narlist was the ruler of a Ilythiiri city, a extremely powerful wizard and big slime supporter. When Lloth seduce Ka'Narlist to her side he convert his city form slime worship to Lloth worship. This allow her to spread her influence into Toril.
Zanan 07-30-07, 06:05 AM	Loloth at the time didn't have any worshippers on Toril and Ka'Narlist was the ruler of a Ilythiiri city, a extremely powerful wizard and big slime supporter. When Lloth seduce Ka'Narlist to her side he convert his city form slime worship to Lloth worship. This allow her to spread her influence into Toril. That's your story or a detailed account of the Evermeet stuff? LEoF says Lolth showed herself before the Sundering, but take note of the Timescale: -18,000 Ghaunadaur becomes a dark power of the Ilythiiri ... and after that Lolth starts to make her inroads too. Yet, by -17,600, the Sundering occurs and that city and Ka'Narlist vanishes from the surface. So his influence must have been limited - with regard to the entire Ilythiiri nation. Anyway, this is all hypothising on events not known.
Ioulaum 07-30-07, 01:13 PM	That's your story or a detailed account of the Evermeet stuff? LEoF says Lolth showed herself before the Sundering, but take note of the Timescale: -18,000 Ghaunadaur becomes a dark power of the Ilythiiri ... and after that Lolth starts to make her inroads too. Yet, by -17,600, the Sundering occurs and that city and Ka'Narlist vanishes from the surface. So his influence must have been limited - with regard to the entire Ilythiiri nation. Anyway, this is all hypothising on events not known. Came form the novel.
Nemrod10 08-20-07, 04:00 PM	A question though, in wich year (dale reckoning) is Vhaeraun's supposed death taking place ? (It's pretty important for my campaign)
Zanan 08-21-07, 04:26 AM	Round about the month of Uktar, in the Year of the Risen Elfkin, 1375 D.R. - according to Sacrifice of the Widow. BTW, the Storm of the Dead excerpt confirms that Vhaeraun IS dead ... but also tells us about some siginifacnt changes in ... Eilistraee. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/frnovel/201337400
stanleyx2002 08-25-07, 04:17 PM	i jsut wanna say that i have a slight fascination with the Jaezred Chaulssin, (having an ex-character among their numbers) so of course i read the web enhancement on Chaulssin from Dragons of Faerun. Anyway, it clearly states that the Chaulssin as a whole are not religious, they are only allied with Vhaeraunites out of convenience and the fact that they fight/fought for a common cause. Besides, just because one or a few of them worships the Masked Lord doesn't mean they all do. :rolleyes:
DarkSongKnight 08-25-07, 09:22 PM	BTW, the Storm of the Dead excerpt confirms that Vhaeraun IS dead ... but also tells us about some siginifacnt changes in ... Eilistraee. I can only hope Eilistraee retains her "goodness" but the excerpt seems to indicate otherwise. If she doesn't, I suppose this will at least make her more aggressive in combating Lolth and such, and more willing to do "dirty" deeds in order to win. But my guess is that it will ultimately be a draw. One can't imagine drow without their spider goddess, and killing off Eilistraee would, IMHO, be a mistake too. Both are interesting goddesses who compliment each other, and also make the drow much more interesting on a whole. Also, without Eilistraee, FR drow would be that much closer to GH drow. Bleh. As for Vhaeraun... I really hope he isn't gone for good. I can see Eilistraee giving back his powers and reviving him should she survive. His followers are probably in chaos at the moment (even more so than usual). Vhaeraun was quite popular, or so I thought... so destroying Eilistraee might not be out of the question... but then again, Vhaeraun was male. One thing I think is certain. Lolth will still be around...
Zanan 08-26-07, 08:47 AM	Well, I really wonder what will going to happen. There are hundreds of deities and half a dozen pantheons (or rather panthei) about, so why this deiicide with the drow and that ominous preview of Ascendency of the Last (as e.g. in Shadowbred) where the drow are asked to finally decide between the goddesses, well well ... I mean, if the priestesses have trouble at their hands with a divine patron, fair enough. But the rest of the society - wizards, warlocks, take your pick - will not suddenly decide on another patron or should be asked in the first place. Society itself may face a major hick-up, but the drow as race will not suddenly get mindblasted and feel the urge of returning to the surface in droves. They are an Underdark race for ages now and that longing for the surface and moonlit glades should not simply rekindle over night. Ach well, we'll know soon enough.
Zireael 08-30-07, 09:43 AM	I hope Lloth and Eilistraee will remain alive. And Eili can be CN.
Nezyr 09-02-07, 11:23 AM	There are many true chaotic Vhaeraunian followers amongs those of house Jaelre, and especialy Auzkovyn clan. Aside from the open conflict that did occured between dalefolks and united zent/drow, forces auzkovyns were not presented, nor did they fought in that war, witch reselmbles the fact, that they are trying to establish a good relationships with ether elves and surface drows alike. About Vhaeraun himself - noone realy knows what happend after that. Since the fall to the abyss, the priests still got their spells and gods gifts, witch gives me a feeling that Vhearaun is still alive. ---------------------------------------------------- Jezzrel chondothan wizard 21/arch3, member of Red Raven Order (the order created by Aradera "Ravensong" Tinshar"), student of Nezram's gem magic.