Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-02-07, 03:48 PM	Hello All, I was wondering what’s exactly the process behind the transformation into a Shade? There is nothing specific that I know of in the forgotten Realms lore. Has anyone seen anything like a spell called create Shade? I haven’t? Maybe in 2nd edition. Form what my experts on epic magic tell me an epic spell cannot grant a template. Is this true? I always assumed the process of transforming someone into a Shade was an Epic spell of some sort. The city of Shade has but 500 Shades in residence. So the process must be some what difficult.:confused: Does anyone have a theory or idea? Or something canon I totally missed.:confused: Mommy, where how are Shades made?:D Best regards, Lord Necron
Ramar Aulinvox 03-02-07, 06:48 PM	Well, in the first book of the Erevis Cale trilogy Cale gets turned into a shade via an artifact. Given the spell in Lost Empires of Fearun that gives someone the half-fiend template, I assume that it could be a 7th level spell (given the ECLs of both templates are the same, +4). Have it be a transmutation(shadow, evil?) spell that works as that spell does. While this spell is rare outside of Shade it is not unknown (note the shades in Chult that worship Eshowdow(Shar)). Alternatively, you could make it a ritual/ceremony out of Unearthed Arcana. Requirements being skill checks for Know(religion), Know(planes), and maybe Know(arcana). I have seen nor heard of anything official so have fun with it.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-02-07, 07:19 PM	Hey isn’t that half-fiend template just a temporary thing? Is its duration permanent?
Ramar Aulinvox 03-02-07, 07:23 PM	I could of sworn it was instint. otherwise, the whole adventure idea in the nars section dealing with it would be worthless. I can't check it right now though, my books aren't here.
GothicDan 03-03-07, 12:03 AM	It was a 9th level Wizard spell in 2E.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-03-07, 01:42 AM	Probable better if its 9th or epic anyways!
Stigger 03-03-07, 02:02 AM	Don't recall how they did it, but the rogue PrC in UE I think had a process that turned someone into a semi-shade thing... could use that as a reference point. Shadow-something of Telflamm maybe... really fuzzy on it though.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-03-07, 02:47 AM	Wasn'[t that just a reprint on the template?
Gemcaster 03-03-07, 05:03 AM	Don't recall how they did it, but the rogue PrC in UE I think had a process that turned someone into a semi-shade thing... could use that as a reference point. Shadow-something of Telflamm maybe... really fuzzy on it though. No you had to gain the shadow walker template (a lesser version of shade template) from the shadw lords of telflamm (costing around 2,000 gp if you have good standing with the shadowlords or 10,000 if you just ask the clerics of mask) to become a telflammar shadowlord. I would say you could either make an epic spell, you could find someone to do it for you for a high price or you could find the artifact that everis cale used.
Stigger 03-03-07, 09:19 AM	Ah, right... forgot it was a lesser version of it. Not sure why anyone would really want to turn themselves into a shadow thing though in the first place though, to be honest about it.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-03-07, 11:52 AM	No you had to gain the shadow walker template (a lesser version of shade template) from the shadw lords of telflamm (costing around 2,000 gp if you have good standing with the shadowlords or 10,000 if you just ask the clerics of mask) to become a telflammar shadowlord. I would say you could either make an epic spell, you could find someone to do it for you for a high price or you could find the artifact that everis cale used. What was the artifact Everis Cale used? Feel free to spoil it for me. I will never read the novels. Not a big fan of Sembia. I always wished Cormyr have would invaded them. Describe the artifact? What kind of powers did it have? Oh does anyone know if a half-fiend can become a Shade? I don’t have savages species, so I have no idea how the template pyramid works.
HVulpes 03-03-07, 12:14 PM	One: The Nar Fiendbond is an instantanous spell so the effects are permanent. You might be thinking of Fiendform that is a temp spell but gives you a true fiend's form. Two: Shade can only be applied to humanoids and turns them into outsiders.The half-fiend template can be added to any living, corporeal creature of Int 4+ and an non-good alignment. Therefore if you wanted a Half-fiend Shade Human, you would go from Humanoid (Human) to Outsider (Native) to Outsider(Native). (Outsiders are at the top with Undead, but the half-fiend will allow for outsider half-fiends). But the level adjustment is plus four for Half-fiend and plus four for Shade for a total of plus eight effective levels. PS: The pyramid is: Top:Construct, Undead, Outsider Second: Elemental, Ooze, Plant Third: Dragon, Humanoid (Shapechanger) Fourth: Fey, Giant Fifth:Magical beast, Monsterous Humanoid Sixth: Animal, Humanoid and Vermin
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-03-07, 12:27 PM	One: The Nar Fiendbond is an instantanous spell so the effects are permanent. You might be thinking of Fiendform that is a temp spell but gives you a true fiend's form. Two: Shade can only be applied to humanoids and turns them into outsiders.The half-fiend template can be added to any living, corporeal creature of Int 4+ and an non-good alignment. Therefore if you wanted a Half-fiend Shade Human, you would go from Humanoid (Human) to Outsider (Native) to Outsider(Native). (Outsiders are at the top with Undead, but the half-fiend will allow for outsider half-fiends). But the level adjustment is plus four for Half-fiend and plus four for Shade for a total of plus eight effective levels. PS: The pyramid is: Top:Construct, Undead, Outsider Second: Elemental, Ooze, Plant Third: Dragon, Humanoid (Shapechanger) Fourth: Fey, Giant Fifth:Magical beast, Monsterous Humanoid Sixth: Animal, Humanoid and Vermin Thanks! Let me make sure I’m clear on this. So according to the rules it is possible to have a half-fiend shade? Two outsider templates is cool? I hope so I have an idea for a wicked villain.
Bonzai 03-03-07, 02:04 PM	So there was a 9th lvl spell in 2nd edition? I assume it was a cleric spell. Cool. Was kind of wondering on that my self. As to why would some one want to become a shade? I imagine the near immortality it grants would be high on the list. As well as the fast healing, and other powers.
Stigger 03-03-07, 04:00 PM	Coming from the perspective that immortality used to be one of the worst curses you could level, and in my mind very much is... no thanks.
HVulpes 03-03-07, 07:37 PM	Thanks! Let me make sure I’m clear on this. So according to the rules it is possible to have a half-fiend shade? Two outsider templates is cool? I hope so I have an idea for a wicked villain. As long as you apply the Half-fiend template after the shade template or else it is not possible. Only a humanoid can be a shade, but almost anything can be a half-fiend.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-03-07, 08:31 PM	As long as you apply the Half-fiend template after the shade template or else it is not possible. Only a humanoid can be a shade, but almost anything can be a half-fiend. HUH? But the half-fiend template is an inherited template! I want this particular fiend to acquire the half-fiend template later in life.:raincloud So one cannot be human half fiend and then later on take on the shade template?????????????:confused: Hey wasn’t that 2nd edition spell in F&A?
Ramar Aulinvox 03-04-07, 05:37 PM	HUH? But the half-fiend template is an inherited template! I want this particular fiend to acquire the half-fiend template later in life.:raincloud So one cannot be human half fiend and then later on take on the shade template?????????????:confused: You can have someone cast the Nar fiendbond spell on the character to make him/her a half-fiend later. Also, there are a number of other ways to gain the template (Wish being a good example) or having a diety grant you it. The Erevis Cale transformation was done at a multi-dimensional temple called the Fane of Shadows (only appears once every couple hundred or thousand? years). You should take a look at the books Shadow Breed I went back and read the Erevis Cale trilogy and loved it]. As for the shadow-walker template, it's not really a spell but a ritual performed by the clerics of Mask. There are other examples of rites for servants of Bane and Shar in LoD.
HVulpes 03-04-07, 05:49 PM	HUH? But the half-fiend template is an inherited template! I want this particular fiend to acquire the half-fiend template later in life.:raincloud So one cannot be human half fiend and then later on take on the shade template?????????????:confused: Hey wasn’t that 2nd edition spell in F&A? Well the shade template under the rules only applies to humanoids. But it is also within the rules to ignore the rules if it makes for a better campaign. But you will need the DM's permission first, unless you are the DM. Exceptions are allowed in Faerun, like Tiefling liches. You will just need a very good back story.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-05-07, 01:18 AM	Well the shade template under the rules only applies to humanoids. But it is also within the rules to ignore the rules if it makes for a better campaign. But you will need the DM's permission first, unless you are the DM. Exceptions are allowed in Faerun, like Tiefling liches. You will just need a very good back story. True true. If it’s possible the Realms is the place. I’m the DM so I say its possible. I never liked the whole template pyramid anyway. If it sounds plausible I don’t see what the problem is. I might use an Unholy scion instead of the half fiend. Just to hide his nature and then either convert him into a shade through accident, divine intervention, or Epic spell. Maybe even create a shade making Artifact. Hummmm…:evillaugh I still wonder how the Shades convert humans? Epic magic or 9th level spell? I would say it would have to be Arcane considering Lord Shadow is the benefactor there.
lavekkia 03-05-07, 08:30 AM	low level ( DC 40 - 85) epic ritual with some requirements: using SW magic and maybe the SW Mythallar or perhaps the Karsestone as Arcane Focus, maybe use also a divine epic slot contributed by an epic cleric of Shar (one of the 12 princes is a cleric of Shar, could be low epic).
GothicDan 03-05-07, 03:26 PM	Shades existed before the Shadow Weave did...
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-05-07, 05:12 PM	Shades existed before the Shadow Weave did... Yes they did. Shades are as old as Gray Hawk. However there is no spell or epic magic that I can find n 3rd edition that explains how the transformation takes pace. Since Shades were around before the Shadow Weave I don’t think it’s necessary to include Shar in the process.
lavekkia 03-06-07, 06:58 AM	Ok... let's say that i was referring how the High Prince created "His" shades; since every epic spell is unique Telamont could have taken advantage from what he had at hand. This epic spell doesn't exist has to be crafted from scratch... if i have time i'll try to write something
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-06-07, 10:40 AM	Ok... let's say that i was referring how the High Prince created "His" shades; since every epic spell is unique Telamont could have taken advantage from what he had at hand. This epic spell doesn't exist has to be crafted from scratch... if i have time i'll try to write something That would be cool and I would love to see it. I was under the impression that Epic spells could not grant templates? I could be wrong though.:D
Adolph_Kheebler 03-07-07, 02:15 PM	It doesn't say specifically how it is done but it is clearly a secret or forgotten spell or ritual. It does specifically say however that only the Princes of Shade can create more shades. Therefore, even if it is a spell, you won't learn it anytime soon unless there is something very wrong with your dm.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-07-07, 04:11 PM	Yeah. I'm the DM.:bored: :rolleye2: The process was around for Melina before Shadow found out about the process. He might have even stolen it from some other country on Toril. It's much older than Shade. Shades were around long before Shadow found out about it. I imagine Lord Shadow found it during his time traveling the planes!:plotting:
lavekkia 03-07-07, 06:31 PM	That would be cool and I would love to see it. I was under the impression that Epic spells could not grant templates? I could be wrong though.:D I have started working on it Grey area (dark gray area, shadowy one would dare saying ;) ). And yes only the Princes Of Shade Enclave can create new Shades of Shade Enclave. Of course if you start to wander the shadow plane for a couple of centuries you'll surely find something or someone able to teach you the ritual.
Ramar Aulinvox 03-07-07, 11:15 PM	I have a problem with the idea that only the Shadovar can create shades. Erevis Cale gained the shade template w/out the shadovar's help. The Eshowdow of Chult still have a process of creating shades (they are Shar worshipers though). There seems to be a process out there, it is just that the shadovar have the largest population of shades in the multi-verse.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-08-07, 12:46 AM	I have a problem with the idea that only the Shadovar can create shades. Erevis Cale gained the shade template w/out the shadovar's help. The Eshowdow of Chult still have a process of creating shades (they are Shar worshipers though). There seems to be a process out there, it is just that the shadovar have the largest population of shades in the multi-verse. I would say the Shadovar’s are not the only ones that can grant the template! I would say that it’s extremely rare and the only other individuals that would have such knowledge would possible be the worshipers of Mask. However any Mage with extensive knowledge of the planes would probably be aware of the process, if not the specifics. Lorlock and any Mage of similar power would be able to gain the knowledge if they so wish. What does everyone else think? Don’t worry about the gray area. It would be great to see what you come up with! What are you planning on calling it? Origin of the Shade species?:D Hey does anyone know if the transformation to a Shade makes you infertile?:confused: I however have never liked Mask every since the Cyric thing.:rolleyes: I have killed Mask off in my world. The portfolio now belongs to Lord Shadow who serves Shar as a demigod. The portfolio of thieves and theft has been taken by Cyric.
Telagaunt 03-09-07, 03:47 AM	I have a problem with the idea that only the Shadovar can create shades. Erevis Cale gained the shade template w/out the shadovar's help. The Eshowdow of Chult still have a process of creating shades (they are Shar worshipers though). There seems to be a process out there, it is just that the shadovar have the largest population of shades in the multi-verse. FRCS didn't specify creating a shade was a Shar-only thing, however their soul becomes infused with shadow-stuff, or essence of shadow. So I would assume many deities linked to say.. the Plane of Shadow, could do this. In Erevis Cale Trilogy, the artifact that made him a Shade was in the Fane of Shadows, which was almost a temple of sorts to all 'shadow' deities. Also keep in mind, *even if* shade template were exclusive to Shar, Mask is the god of thievery, and he did help get Cale the template :P
Xavier_of_Cormyr 03-09-07, 09:27 PM	Where does it say that ONLY the shadovar can create shades? I must have missed that....
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-10-07, 04:11 AM	Where does it say that ONLY the shadovar can create shades? I must have missed that.... Dosn't say that any where.
Ramar Aulinvox 03-10-07, 08:10 PM	FRCS didn't specify creating a shade was a Shar-only thing, however their soul becomes infused with shadow-stuff, or essence of shadow. So I would assume many deities linked to say.. the Plane of Shadow, could do this. In Erevis Cale Trilogy, the artifact that made him a Shade was in the Fane of Shadows, which was almost a temple of sorts to all 'shadow' deities. Also keep in mind, *even if* shade template were exclusive to Shar, Mask is the god of thievery, and he did help get Cale the template :P I wasn't trying to say that only Shar worshipers knew how to make shades. I was merely stating that it could be likely that the goddess of secrets shared a secret from one of her faithful to another group.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-11-07, 04:42 PM	I wasn't trying to say that only Shar worshipers knew how to make shades. I was merely stating that it could be likely that the goddess of secrets shared a secret from one of her faithful to another group. There is a God older then both Shar and Mask that resides in the plane of Shadow! He was in dragon ages ago.:cool: So where is that epic spell? Wasn’t someone working on that?
lemaas 04-22-07, 10:01 PM	Where does it say there is only a couple hundred Shades? (Tearing of the Weave?) Would it greatly unbalance a game if there were more Shades around, maybe via a reward from Shar for promoting one of her agenda's? While the template is decently powerful (unless there is a update past FRCS that I am not aware of), it isn't so powerful that special NPC's couldn't have "aquired" it via magic, devine gift, etc. In the campaign that I am running, the Shade template is pretty standard for any decently powerful character from the city of Shade (Read: 8th+ level), with an occasional few lower level. I will admit, the city of Shade is pretty much, as a whole, not doing to much to meddle in the outside world, as I went with the phariethum (sp?) more active and the city of Shade having a lot of their resources directed to controling that problem. Some of the denizens of Shade, mainly the Shar worshipers (I assume they are not ALL Shar worshipers!), have been working with various factions of the church to cause problems, mainly in the Dalelands and Cormyr (in line with Shar's rebellion credo). Just wondered if I was totally off cannon (not that it matters really to my players).
Thanael 04-25-07, 10:32 AM	It was a 9th level Wizard spell in 2E. Source? Name?
Thanael 04-25-07, 10:42 AM	Hey does anyone know if the transformation to a Shade makes you infertile?:confused: I seem to remember it does. There was an excellent Ecology of the Shade article in Dragon #126.
GothicDan 04-27-07, 05:58 AM	Sorry it took me so long to get to this. I think it was in the... 2nd Annual Monstrous Compendium? Either 1-3, definitely not 4. It's called "Create Shade."
AbyssKnight 04-27-07, 02:08 PM	I am not aware of any prohibition on epic spells granting templates. After all, as was pointed out above, there is a non-epic spell (Nar Fiendbond, level 7) which grants a template. Plus, there is an Elven High Magic spell (EHM is Epic magic in 3.x) called Telmiirkara neshyrr which bestows the half-fiend or half-celestial template and the ability to work Elven High Magic without a supporting circle!
Thanael 05-02-07, 12:32 PM	Sorry it took me so long to get to this. I think it was in the... 2nd Annual Monstrous Compendium? Either 1-3, definitely not 4. It's called "Create Shade." I checked, it is neither in Annual MC 1 nor in 2. Powers & Pantheons has a Monster entry for shades though on page 192. This entry says they're sterile and it does not list how exactly you become one. Ecology: Shades are effectively immortal, never dying unless slain and prevented from regenerating. they achieve this state by exchanging their spirit for the stuff of shadows. (Sages disagree inexactly how they accomplish this feat.) the transformation leaves them sterile. [...]
GothicDan 05-02-07, 04:36 PM	Then it's in MC 3. I recall specifically the image (a male Shade dressed in blank pants and a black tank-top looking thing, holding a war hammer behind his back). And this was when they were labeling each entry in the Annual MC's with a little Grayhawk, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, etc. symbol in the corner to denote its setting of origin.
Thanael 05-08-07, 04:23 AM	Right, that sound like the Annual MCs. Unfortunately i don't have MC annual 3. According to this site (http://www.upl.cs.wisc.edu/~woodelf/mystuff/Adnd/9th.html) there's a 9th.level spell called Create Shade in Dragon #213. Supposedly in the "The Demiplane of Shadow" article by Edward Bonny I'll check when i'm home.