| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Meldread03-24-08, 06:30 AM | Okay, I need some information. Based on what I know from the Lands of Intrigue Shoon VII returned on the exact day the Time of Troubles took place, and because magic went bonkers, the book he was trapped in managed to allow him (by accident) to inhabit the body of Zallanora Agentresses - an elf who at the time was 105 years old. Zallanora was transferred into the book in Shoon VII's place and went insane as a result. So yeah... What has Shoon VII been up too since then? At the time of the writing of the Lands of Intrigue he already knew about the Twisted Rune and the Shadow Thieves. He is easily one of the most powerful Wizards currently living in Faerun, and has magical item caches stashed all over the place giving him access to more magic items than either Khelben or Manshoon. He had already been free for ten years by the time Lands of Intrigue was written... it is hard to imagine that he's just been chilling out since that time. I have some ideas, but I need more insight into the personality of Shoon VII and what exactly he accomplished during the Shoon Empire. Was he the one with the lack of management skills that ran it into the ground, or was it one of his children? (It is hard to keep up with them all.) Is he the only Shoon Emperor left running around? |
| Krash03-24-08, 06:54 AM | Read the write-up of Shoon VII in the "Empires of the Shining Sea" product - it provides quite a bit more information on his time of rule and about the man himself. You might also want to look at the write-up of Iryklathagra in "Dragons of Faerūn". -- George Krashos |
| MarkusTay6303-24-08, 02:49 PM | I have some ideas, but I need more insight into the personality of Shoon VII and what exactly he accomplished during the Shoon Empire. Was he the one with the lack of management skills that ran it into the ground, or was it one of his children? (It is hard to keep up with them all.)His foolish children - they got progressively worse, IIRC. The last one pretty much gave the kingdom away (a female, I think). Homebrew Lore: An artifact from ancient Zakhara - the Maelstrom Scarab - was stolen from the Grand Sultan by over-bold bandits centuries ago. Fleeing with the Sultan's gaurds in hot pursuit, they travelled to the Corsair Isles, and then from their took a ship to Dambrath. The Caliph's men eventually caught up with the thieves in Estagund, but by then the great artifact had been sold to unknown merchants heading north. After avenging themselves on the bandits, the Caliph's Men choose to remain in Estagund, in fear of the Caliph's wrath for failure. The Rajah offered them his protection, and they swore fealty to him, eventually forming the Maquar Crusaders (SS). The artifact was then 'lost' again (some say it is cursed) in the region of the Lake of Salt (Azulduth), after the merchant caravan was attacked by monsters out of Veldorn, and was not seen again for any, many years. This is where it gets intersting - an explorerer in the Thrulaliel Mountains (eastern Toadsquats) claims to have seen an item fitting the artifacts description in an ancient fortress (Castle of Al'Hanar). Unfortunelty, the item also happened to be gaurded by a Group Of Death Knights, and the explorer was forced to flee after losing several of his men. The explorer himself returned to Azun to resupply and put together another team, but that second team also disappeared a few days after leaving (they were waylaid by reptillian creatures north of the Sharawood). The explorer's story was told and retold around the towns of the Azulduth, and eventually word spread to other parts of Faerūn. The Maelstrom Scarab has many powers associated with it and the Elemental Chaos, and is purported to have the ability to command ANY Djenn or Elemental Lord. Shoon VII would very much like to have this device, because one of his many plans is to shatter the Calimemnon Crytal, releasing and controlling both of the mighty Genies entrapped. On the other side of the continent, Tan Chin, a Lich of equal power and evil, had similar designs upon the item, hoping to enslave both the Efreet Khalitharius and the Djinn Aeraldoth that lie hidden within the Raurin desert. As fate would have it, Tan Chin entered the Castle of Al'Hanar, only to find Shoon VII already in battle with the Death Knights. Immediately attacking his competition, the two 'went at it', destroying the entire antechamber and a great deal more of the massive structure. The Death Knights retreated, and in a secret Temple deep inside the Fortress, they began a monastic chant... Shoon VII, exhausted from fighting the Undead, was finally defeated by Tan Chin, but before the Solon Emperor could claim his prize, an Avatar of the recently ascended Kalemvor appeared (having been 'summoned' by the knights) and nearly destroyed Tan Chin in the process. Both Liches quickly retreated before the awsome might of the god, and returned to their respective lairs to recover. Tan Chin has since went onto other things, and may himself be finally 'dead for good'. Shoon VII is unaware of Tan Chin's current fate, and considers him both a rival and an obstacle for achieving his goal. Tan Chin is an Imaskari (Suel) Lich, and has found various ways to come back before, after being 'ultimately defeated', and should not be considered down for the count just yet. Both beings took some time to recover, but given Shoon's mortal human form, the recovery took much longer, and he was 'laying low' for several years. Mind you, this battle took place when Shoon was very new to his current form, and only recently returned, whereas Tan Chin was at the height of his power. Today, a second battle could go very differently. I hope that gives you some (non-canon) reason as to why Shoon VII wasn't all that 'busy' immediately following his return. |
| Ioulaum03-24-08, 09:14 PM | Okay, I need some information. Based on what I know from the Lands of Intrigue Shoon VII returned on the exact day the Time of Troubles took place, and because magic went bonkers, the book he was trapped in managed to allow him (by accident) to inhabit the body of Zallanora Agentresses - an elf who at the time was 105 years old. Zallanora was transferred into the book in Shoon VII's place and went insane as a result. So yeah... What has Shoon VII been up too since then? At the time of the writing of the Lands of Intrigue he already knew about the Twisted Rune and the Shadow Thieves. He is easily one of the most powerful Wizards currently living in Faerun, and has magical item caches stashed all over the place giving him access to more magic items than either Khelben or Manshoon. He had already been free for ten years by the time Lands of Intrigue was written... it is hard to imagine that he's just been chilling out since that time. I have some ideas, but I need more insight into the personality of Shoon VII and what exactly he accomplished during the Shoon Empire. Was he the one with the lack of management skills that ran it into the ground, or was it one of his children? (It is hard to keep up with them all.) Is he the only Shoon Emperor left running around? my guess is he is enjoying his new body :P |
| Meldread03-25-08, 01:21 AM | I am trying to find a way to get my hands on a copy of the Empires of the Shining Sea. However, until I can do that I have been tossing around some ideas in my head. My over all goal is to make the Southern Sword Coast more relevant. There isn't very much development in the area, and I think that is part of the reason the 4E designers decided to blow it up. Plus, I think there is just an epic story brewing here both literally and figuratively. Here are some of my thoughts: - Shoon VII is set free during the Time of Troubles and comes to learn of the Bhaalspawn. He captures some of them and performs Irenicus style shenanigans with even darker purposes. - The Council of Six meeting chamber is an old fortress-like building built during the Shoon Era. Shoon VII, as he transports himself (herself?) to a hidden magical cache located in the tunnels and dungeons beneath learns that the building has been in use. Intrigued, he decides to find out who has been messing around in his building, only to find out it is the Council of Six! He then hatches a plan to enslave the Council to serve his whims. - Shoon VII works his way up the Cowled Wizard chain of command and takes control of the Cowled Wizards through a surrogate which he magically enslaves. - Shoon VII learns of the Guildmaster of the Shadow Thieves - the true leader - (a member of the Council of Six) and enslaves him, thus gaining control of the Shadow Thieves. - Shoon VII captures one of the Twisted Rune Agents (he already knows the identity of one of them), learns important details of the Twisted Rune, and through carefully laid plans and guile he brings the Twisted Rune under his thumb. - Shoon VII turns his attention to Maztica, the New Land. It is ripe with opportunity for one such as himself. He travels to the new land, bent on conquering it, building an army, and using that army to reclaim his lost Empire. (Thus making the Shoon Empire: Anchorome + Maztica + South Western Faerun (Calimshan, Tethyr and Amn). I can use any of these plots or all of these plots together. Most of them put Shoon behind the curtain pulling the strings rather than in the open to gain attention, which would explain why he seems so silent. He is the puppet master behind every major organization in Amn (Cowled Wizards, Council of Six, the Shadow Thieves), plus the Twisted Rune, and is off in Maztica conquering it. :P As for a base of operations... I think it is too obvious for Shoon VII to set himself back up in his old haunts. Instead, he would work to clear out his old holdings and relocate. For security I am thinking the best base would be the following: - Shoon VII takes a grain of sand, hollows it out with a spell, makes it indestructible, then turns the hollow grain of sand into a huge extra dimensional space. He then (in his extra-dimensional space) opens up tiny micro-portals to the plane of air so that living creatures can breathe inside. After that, he enslaves creatures to build him a complex within that extra-dimensional space and then wards the hell out of it. He then takes the hollow grain of sand and teleports it to the bottom of the Trackless Sea. :P The only way to access his hidden domain would be through teleportation (into an extra-dimensional space - not something most people can do) or a portal / gate. He is highly knowledgeable about gateways and if he has control of the Twisted Rune he also gains control of Halaster's knowledge as well, which would make him the foremost expert on gates in the Realms. After all, one of the reasons the Tome of the Unicorn is so valuable is that it tells someone how to create a permanent gateway to another plane / dimension. (In addition it tells how to control massive undead armies under a single necromancer, as well as powerful magical golems.) Side Notes: - Shoon VII is a powerful spell caster who wants to keep his identity secret. To this end no one knows he has returned and there is likely a large number of people who know him by different names. He could shed his identity (including gender) like a snake sheds its skin, switching from one to the next depending on who he is communicating with at the time. Perhaps the only thing that would remain constant throughout it all is the fact that everyone realizes that they are communicating with a VERY powerful wizard. I doubt Shoon VII maintained his Zallanora Agentresses identity longer than necessary, though it is possible he still uses it within Cowled Wizard circles. - In terms of power in 2nd Edition he was level 36. In 3rd Edition, according to Lords of Darkness, Larloch is level 32. That gives him a four level advantage over Larloch. Thus, I am going to say that Shoon VII is roughly equal to Larloch in power with a slight edge. In any event, Shoon VII is not designed as a guy you can encounter and kill one on one. He will likely win. It will require a good amount of risk and guile. - Shoon VII will have to have some critical weaknesses. First among them I am listing the Tome of the Unicorn. Although Zallanora Agentresses has been driven insane in her current state, she still maintains the abilities of a demilich (the only 3rd level demilich in the entire setting!) I would argue that if she uses her soul-drain abilities upon Shoon VII (and is successful) they will once again switch places. Other Thoughts: I am trying to think of reasons that Shoon VII was trapped within a book of his own design in the first place. That seems silly. I also have to think of reasons why he let his empire go straight to hell right under his nose. So here are some thoughts on that. - His supposed "defeat" by Iryklathagra is a lie spread by the dragon after his imprisonment to boost the dragons own ego. The Dragon, in fact, located the Staff of the Unicorn in one of his many hidden caches throughout the region. The dragon stole the staff. - Shoon VII allowed himself to be "defeated" and for his empire to fall. After he had achieved Lichdom such things became irrelevant. He had all the time in the world to rebuild his empire from the ground up. It was an unnecessary distraction. - He formulated the above plan after he saw the result of his children's failure to maintain what he had built. Their uselessness was shameful to him and he wanted to punish them for their failures by forcing them to watch it crumble all around them as he refused to lift a finger for aid. - At the time of the creation of the Tome of the Unicorn Shoon VII had reached his magical limitations. It became necessary for him to begin researching alternative magical traditions. At the time, the Shoon Empire had embraced a bastardization of the Netherese magical tradition, which was slightly more powerful in some respects and weaker in others. He held a firm grasp of the purpose of the Weave and the raw magic that lay beyond it. He studied the magical traditions of the Imaskari (which aided in his knowledge of extra-dimensional spaces and gates) as well as rune and table magic. He also studied psionics. These were only passing interests and his interest was more in line with their underlying principles and how they found methods to manipulate raw magic. He may have also studied the Shadow Weave to some extent. - Thus it became Shoon VII's goal to craft for himself - and his Empire (be it the one that currently stood or a new one in the future) - a new type of Weave. A Weave without the limitations placed upon him by Mystra's (2.0) Weave. However, in order to do that he faced very high hurtles. The Weave was hard-wired to prevent such an action. The other magical traditions were too primitive and too specialized to allow it. Manipulating Raw Magic directly was difficult - even for him - and was ultimately too dangerous without some type of buffer between himself and the raw magic. - To facilitate this, he reasoned, it required divine power. However, Shoon VII had no desire to be a deity - he is very much of the Myrkul school of thought. So he began to plot and plan for a way to steal some divine essence from a deity... - Mystra (2.0) learned of this plot. Remembering her predecessor's trouble with Karsus she worked to head Shoon VII off at the pass. She used her Chosen to create a distraction that drew Shoon VII from his lair. Elminster then managed to find a way inside, and then - with a special spell Mystra had developed - modified the Tome of the Unicorn to entrap Shoon VII. - The plan was successful and it was not long before Shoon VII found himself trapped within his own book. He is quite embarrassed over the whole ordeal and thus refuses to talk about those years. - Thus it was the greatest irony of all when he was freed from his prison by a malfunction in the Weave. Mystra (2.0) died before she discovered what had happened. Mystra (3.0) is completely unaware of Shoon VII's freedom. - It is thus likely that Shoon VII has picked up where he left off. I could then tie this into the whole Bhaalspawn idea mentioned previously. The Bhaalspawn, as we know from the Bhaalspawn Saga, contain bits of divine essence. Shoon VII could capture them to steal their divinity, and use their divinity as a buffer between him and raw magic. - He can then use raw magic (the 1's and 0's - the machine code of magic) to create a Weave of his own design (written in Assembly Code :P). He would create this Weave entirely from scratch based off the knowledge he had obtained from his previous studies conducted centuries before (and the centuries since that time he has had to contemplate over it.) This gives me the opportunity to introduce some new mechanics to the game and have some fun. - By the time 1372 rolls around (start of 3E) Shoon VII is off in his little extra-dimensional realm with his "Shoon Weave" which allows him to cast magic on the scale not seen since the Fall of Netheril and the Imaskari. - This also introduces some new weaknesses to Shoon VII. Since he had no desire to be a deity he had to contain the divine essence within a large crystal sphere. If that sphere is located and smashed or otherwise destroyed the "Shoon Weave" is also destroyed. This could not only cripple him but also any Empire that he builds using his Weave. It would be similar to what happened to Netheril when Mystryl died. - In order to power his Weave the divine essence he has captured requires worship. That could prove interesting. It could also be a good reason why he has focused much of his attention on Maztica. Perhaps he (using the divine essence) imprisoned the remaining Maztican deities within the Crystal Sphere to harness their divine essence as well. His plans focus on picking up where the Helmites left off and forging a monotheistic religion in Maztica - one that fuels his Weave. - I'd give Shoon VII a Divine Rank of 0. It allows him to avoid becoming a Lich again (which I would rule is impossible because a fragment of his soul is still trapped within the Tome or that if slain he will automatically return to the Tome as if it were his phylactery). I would also increase his level to roughly 50th to represent the power that he can draw upon. Since he isn't meant to be an encounter his level is mostly irrelevant and is used as a measurement of his power - which makes him roughly as powerful as a deity. (They range from level 50 to level 65.) Those are just some random thoughts I've thrown out. In play Shoon VII will operate much like the Twisted Rune. You will never see his hand in things, but if you begin to pull back the layers it will ultimately lead directly to him. This gives me the perfect opportunity to keep Maztica, Anchorome, Calimshan, Tethyr and Amn in my Realms if I decide to go with any of the 4E changes. If I go with the destruction of the Weave via Mystra's death then that gives the perfect opportunity for Shoon VII to begin making his moves on the mainland to reclaim his empire. After all he'd have a perfectly stable Weave. I would ignore the Spellplague nonsense or use a different version. Does this sound Shoon worthy? Is this something out of his grasp or out of character? Is it even a reasonable plot? I haven't taken the time to organize it into anything coherent and at the moment it is just a bunch of ideas that I would try and force together. What do you guys think? Also, how would you consider using Shoon VII? |
| Lord Karsus03-25-08, 02:16 AM | my guess is he is enjoying his new body :P -You sick, sick person. :P - Shoon VII captures one of the Twisted Rune Agents (he already knows the identity of one of them), learns important details of the Twisted Rune, and through carefully laid plans and guile he brings the Twisted Rune under his thumb. -This is the one that calls out the most, to me. |
| Alleran03-25-08, 02:41 AM | -You sick, sick person. Though given how long Shoon was locked up for, it's probably not all that far from the truth. :D I've had the characters encounter Shoon VII only twice (a plot thread that I may conclude someday, once they're done with their current operations). The first time, it was as Zallanora. They happened to be in Amn, and she served as a "guide" to escort them somewhere. Nobody (in character - two of them realised OOC who she was, but kept their mouths shut to avoid strange barrages of lightning that seemed to magically appear for some reason) realised who she was. One of them (the group mage) realised that she might have been more than she appeared, but nothing more. As I recall, he figured that she was just a mage who preferred to keep a low profile. The second time was more recent (though still a while back), shortly after the group mage became a Chosen of Mystra. The group remembered Zallanora, and he (the Chosen) immediately tumbled to the fact that "she" was actually somebody else inhabiting the body - an incredibly powerful mage inhabiting it, in fact. Zallanora/Shoon backed off, but that was more or less only because Shoon didn't feel comfortable going head to head with one of Mystra's Chosen at the time. Not that he couldn't have won, mind you. Indeed, by all logic, unless Nuffles - the god of the dice - betrayed me, he would have utterly crushed the group. Attracting the attention of the Chosen (and by extension, numerous other power groups) to his return just wasn't something he was ready to do yet, since he's still bent on chasing down Iryklathagra. So as it stands, the above mentioned PC knows that Zallanora is indeed much more than she appears to be, and specifically that a powerful mage is inhabiting the body. He doesn't (IC) know that it's Shoon, though, so it could really be anybody with access to the Magic Jar/Soul Trap/whatever spell and enough wizard levels to place them into the realms of the Epic. |
| Meldread03-25-08, 04:49 AM | Not that he couldn't have won, mind you. Indeed, by all logic, unless Nuffles - the god of the dice - betrayed me, he would have utterly crushed the group. Attracting the attention of the Chosen (and by extension, numerous other power groups) to his return just wasn't something he was ready to do yet, since he's still bent on chasing down Iryklathagra. That is pretty much how I see Shoon VII handling things as well. He'd be going out of his way to AVOID confrontations with the Chosen of Mystra and the like. Not because he couldn't eliminate them, he could - perhaps even several of them at once. It's the fact that he doesn't want anyone to know he's back. It's much easier to plot and scheme when there is no one out there working against you. Plus with his Elven lifespan and knowledge of magic time is not an issue. He can take as long as he wants. As for Iryklathagra I have already reasoned how he will deal with her. She is currently trying to use her hoard to influence Sapphiraktar. Sapphiraktar, of course, happens to be a Dracolich member of the Twisted Rune. This means if Shoon VII manages to gain control over the Twisted Rune he also gains the ability to get revenge upon Iryklathagra – through Sapphiraktar. I have tried to contemplate how Shoon VII would handle such a scenario. He would do so carefully because he would not want to reveal too much to Sapphiraktar. He does not want the staff back (in terms of power it is irrelevant to him) so much as he wants to punish Iryklathagra. Two things have come to mind. First, he kills Iryklathagra and animates her as some type of undead dragon that serves him. Second, he kills her and uses her bones for some type of throne. Of course, in the second option he would ensure that the bones remain sentient and aware of everything that takes place around them. He may even be able to forge a telepathic link to them. The point? To keep Iryklathagra "alive" so that the dragon is forever reminded of its place as he uses its remains for a chair – a reminder of its complete and utter defeat. :P I am trying to think of something creative. The lore stated that Shoon VII is simply waiting until his revenge upon Iryklathagra can be "flawless" which to me means that he wants to make her suffer in the worst possible way. Considering Shoon VII is vastly more intelligent than myself and is vastly more morally depraved (genocide being the least among his many atrocities) it is hard to imagine something "suitable". my guess is he is enjoying his new body I actually considered having Shoon VII enjoying it quite a bit. I don't see him as a being who is all that hung up on gender. I mean, let's face it, if you had any attachment to your gender specific bits you wouldn't have become a lich. That tends to kill your sex drive, and furthermore it tends to rot and fall off - and since Shoon VII became a Demilich that is exactly what happened. I see him as using his feminine wiles to manipulate others and finding it amusing. Since the many merchant houses in Amn are always throwing expensive parties, and because various sexual depravities no doubt take place at such parties it presents Shoon with opportunities. I see him (errr... her) taking various individuals off to some private room to make out, after seducing them with his feminine (and exotic because he's Elven) wiles. Once there she would mindrape her victim, learn of all his/her plots and plans, make him/her forget that she mindraped them and then have sex with her victim. Afterward she would use the information she gathered to control / manipulate her victim under a completely different identity. Meanwhile, back at Lady Varytha Gheldieg's estate in Eshpurta "Zallanora" is getting all these love letters. :P Shoon VII would have deployed the use of a clone as a double. His double would appear and possess the abilities that Zallanora Argentresses professes to have. He would have mindraped the clone, given it all of its necessary memories (making it believe that it was actually Zallanora Argentresses), made it completely loyal and subject to his every whim, and have established a telepathic link with the clone. The clone would essentially fill his boring daily duties for Lady Varytha and give him the freedom to actually be off doing wizardly research. He'd switch places with his clone at the aforementioned parties, then mindrape the clone to make her believe that she had actually been there and acted as he had acted, making it all seem logical within her head. :P (Yes, it is all convoluted but when you're dealing with a centuries old Wizard of nearly 40th level who does not want to be identified this is usually the result.) Here is how I imagine it working: Zallanora is within Lady Varytha's estate prepairing for a party. Suddenly she gets the "urge" to check her hair - it has to be perfect Lord Tanislove will be there, and she just HAS to make the perfect impression. (In reality that "urge" was created by Shoon VII via his telepathic link. It worked similar to a un-resistible "suggestion" spell.) She goes to the mirror to check her hair and suddenly - her reflection seems to be doing something completely different than her! It frightens her. She is startled but before she can yell out she is placed in stasis. Her "reflection" (Shoon VII) steps out of the mirror and pulls her through it. (The Mirror is a special two-way portal to Shoon VII's secret lair.) Once in the lair he mindrapes her (learning everything she has been up to since the last time he mindraped her) and leaves her in stasis. He then goes back through the mirror into her room and to the party in her place. Afterward, he returns from the party, goes back through the mirror, mindrapes her again giving her all of the memories of what took place at the party (leaving out the mindraping and the like) and erases memories of the mirror incident. He then takes her back through the portal and as he disappears back through he releases her from stasis, none the wiser that she hadn't actually been to the party herself. |
| Alleran03-25-08, 08:39 AM | It's much easier to plot and scheme when there is no one out there working against you. Of course. The point? To keep Iryklathagra "alive" so that the dragon is forever reminded of its place as he uses its remains for a chair – a reminder of its complete and utter defeat. I would have said "footstool", but a Dragon is a bit big for that, so a chair is probably the best bet. He may or may not also start using up Iryklathagra's hoarded treasure as well, since we all know how attached to it Dragons are. That will be almost guaranteed to get Iryklathagra's blood boiling (figuratively speaking, since a pile of bones being used as a chair tends to be somewhat lacking in the blood department). |
| Lord Karsus03-25-08, 09:50 AM | -You sick, sick people...:nonono: |
| Ioulaum03-25-08, 03:52 PM | -You sick, sick person. :P i thought he might enojy drinking and eating after all these years are lich :) just what were you thinking of :smirk: :tongue: |
| Lord Karsus03-25-08, 04:07 PM | i thought he might enojy drinking and eating after all these years are lich :) just what were you thinking of :smirk: :tongue: -Nothing prevents a Lich (assuming they have a body, and what not) from eating and drinking. Mind you, they might not be able to digest said food, but they can mimic the act of putting food in their mouth, chewing, and swallowing, if that much of their body still exists. -What do you think I was thinking of? Eh? |
| Meldread03-25-08, 04:28 PM | Nothing prevents a Lich (assuming they have a body, and what not) from eating and drinking. Mind you, they might not be able to digest said food, but they can mimic the act of putting food in their mouth, chewing, and swallowing, if that much of their body still exists. That would be somewhat redundant. Even though they may be able to "chew" they would still lack the ability to taste. (Assuming, of course, they did not use magic to fix that. However, it is just as likely that they could have used magic to imitate whatever favorite food / wine / whatever they desired without actually putting it in their mouth.) Like the gender specific bits above, if a lich was -really- attached to such things it is unlikely that he would have chosen to become a lich. Shoon VII: "Laura Millar makes the best cookies in all of Amn, much better than my enslaved cook back in the old days. When I kill her and her family, I'll make it quick, and since she is so wonderful at this I shall make her undead so that she may make me cookies forever!" |
| Meldread03-25-08, 04:33 PM | Back on topic, though. Does anyone here have any idea on why / how Shoon VII got trapped within a book of his own design? What route would you go in your home games? Does my idea dealing with the Weave / Mystra / Chosen hold water? |
| Lord Karsus03-25-08, 04:40 PM | That would be somewhat redundant. Even though they may be able to "chew" they would still lack the ability to taste. (Assuming, of course, they did not use magic to fix that. However, it is just as likely that they could have used magic to imitate whatever favorite food / wine / whatever they desired without actually putting it in their mouth.) -Which doesn't prevent a Lich from imitating the processes of eating and drinking. ;) Does anyone here have any idea on why / how Shoon VII got trapped within a book of his own design? What route would you go in your home games? -Outsmarted by a thief attempting to steal said item. |
| Ioulaum03-25-08, 07:27 PM | -Nothing prevents a Lich (assuming they have a body, and what not) from eating and drinking. Mind you, they might not be able to digest said food, but they can mimic the act of putting food in their mouth, chewing, and swallowing, if that much of their body still exists. -What do you think I was thinking of? Eh? if you can't taste it there is no point in going through the motions. and what did you think i was thinking of what you were thinking of what i was thinking? |
| selunatic239703-25-08, 07:37 PM | Back on topic, though. Does anyone here have any idea on why / how Shoon VII got trapped within a book of his own design? What route would you go in your home games? Does my idea dealing with the Weave / Mystra / Chosen hold water? I believe that he enchanted the book using the blood of a few unicorns to serve as his phlactery [sp.?]. In 1ED the tome had spells and info on making gates and golems...plus an extra-dimensional pocket to hide his skull. I do not recall if they ever actually said how, or why he chose the book though. I hope that I have been of some small help. |
| Lord Karsus03-25-08, 07:44 PM | if you can't taste it there is no point in going through the motions. -Hey, I didn't say it had to make sense, when logic and thought were applied. I was just saying that there's nothing preventing him from going through the motions of eating and drinking as a Lich. I clearly recall Szass Tam, in Crimson Gold, taking part in a meal with the other Zukirs, and Tazi, while under the guise of his illusion. That food and drink went somewhere. and what did you think i was thinking of what you were thinking of what i was thinking? Good question. I think you'll be able to answer that one. |
| MarkusTay6303-25-08, 08:09 PM | What Selunatic said - the Book was his phylactory, I believe, and it was unable to reform into the Lich until the book was brought to his 'mortal' remains IIRC. The book was part of a Pirate's horde (for whatever reason) and wound up in The Green Room in Rauthym for many, MANY years. Not 100% on that, but I'm pretty sure thats why Liches can't be far from their phylactorys - they can't come back unless it is within a certain distance of where they were destroyed. Unfortunately, at the exact moment that happened, the ToT struck, and all the wirerdness happened. |
| Meldread03-25-08, 09:31 PM | Ahhh... that makes sense. I guess. The rules on phylacteries have never really been all that clear (at least to me). I never knew you had to be near the phylactery when you died as a lich - I didn't even think you had to be on the same plane of existence. However, all of that doesn't make much sense when you consider the fact that Shoon VII specifically was asking for seven souls in exchange for his aid to the mage who had the tome. Why didn't he just ask to be returned to the site he was destroyed or more directly - assistance in freeing himself from the tome. Unless, of course, upon draining the 7th soul he would have been freed from the book. Alas, instead of being free as a demilich (his true form) the ToT caused him to simply trade places with Zallanora Agentresses instead. However, according to how the book works, there is no reason he couldn't have drained seven souls before that point. It traded hands enough times, and he had to have been set 'free' enough times for that to happen previously. |
| Lord Karsus03-25-08, 10:30 PM | I never knew you had to be near the phylactery when you died as a lich - I didn't even think you had to be on the same plane of existence. -I didn't, either. I've never heard this before, and I am doubting it's validity, unless someone can point me to a written source that says this (no offense). |
| MarkusTay6303-26-08, 02:32 AM | Thats why I wrote that I was not 100% on that point. I do remember reading something about why Liches need to be near their phylactorys though. They needed some IG explanation of why a Lich's Phylactory was always hidden somewhere nearby in his lair, conveniently where adventurers could get to it. If there wasn't a problem with distance, then why wouldn't every Lich stash his in a pocket dimension that only he could access? Whenever you find a Lich, it a sure-fire gaurantee that his Phylactory is near him. I wish I could rememeber where I saw thought - I know it was pretty recent.... Edit Found it, but its not exactly what I thought. All the info about Liches and their relationship to their phylactorys is on pg. 53 of Van Richten's guide to the Lich. It seems the Lich CAN'T form a new body; what it must do is take over another nearby dead body, and that is why they do not put their phylactorys in out-of-the-way places. In order to 'come back', the Lich must possess a 'host body' - that is, take-over another corpse within 60 ft of his Phylactory! thats why it is almost always in his lair - he has undead minions around that he can 'jump' into if the need arises (a zombie counts as a corpse for this purpose). It has a whole page of rules surrounding all of that, but thats the gist of it. It also says that if no corpse is nearby, the Lich becomes tapped within his Phylactory until such a time when one is available, which could be forever if the Phylactory was well hidden. Hmmmm... reading a little further, it says the Lich may attempt to use ANY Undead, not just Zombies, but Intelligent Undead get a save. A Lich taking over a vampire - wouldn't that be a kick in the head? :D |
| Lord Karsus03-26-08, 02:36 AM | Thats why I wrote that I was not 100% on that point. -I blame Meldred, then. :P If there wasn't a problem with distance, then why wouldn't every Lich stash his in a pocket dimension that only he could access? -They do. It has been debated that, theoretically, a Lich could make Abeir-Toril his phylactery, and that only the desruction of Abeir-Toril, or the disjunction, or whatever it's called, can sever the connection. Whenever you find a Lich, it a sure-fire gaurantee that his Phylactory id near him. -For the player's sake, sure. Would you want to play in a game where it was impossible to kill the evil BBEG Lich!? |
| MarkusTay6303-26-08, 02:47 AM | Read edit... you respond too fast. :P |
| Lord Karsus03-26-08, 02:51 AM | Read edit... you respond too fast. :P -So I see. Quick Draw McGraw over here. |
| Meldread03-26-08, 08:13 AM | MarkusTay63- I had actually heard of those rules before, but there have been many people who played loosie goosy with them over the years. :P Yeah, anyway, assuming that this is the case can we be certain that the Tome of the Unicorn is Shoon VII's Phylactery? The lore on the tome says nothing about that being the case and I think, considering it was part of Shoon VII's write-up that it would have made a passing mention to it, right? I am trying to put together all the information that I can for Shoon VII. I lack Empires of the Shining Sea and Dragons of Faerun, which seem to contain more information. Description: Zallanora was 105 years old when Shoon VII magically possessed her. After 12 years of acclimating himself to his new form, Shoon appears (as Zallanora) to be a young, short elf woman with bobbed silver hair that falls in ringlets. Her coppery skin and hazel eyes show her sylvan-elf heritage; when angry, her eyes darken to mahogany. Shoon's "Zallanora" facade is that of a light-hearted elf with a dry sense of humor, a fabulous knowledge of ancient (but not recent) history, and a talent for magic. In truth, "Zallanora" is the most ruthless, evil dictator-mage who ever stalked the Realms. If Shoon slips and reveals more knowledge or power than Zallanora should have as a 3rd-level wizard, he meticulously slays all observers and eradicates evidence that might implicate him. He did not rule the greatest empire on Faerūn for nearly 60 years (and survive another millennium) by acting rashly or allowing enemies to easily find him. Game Info: "Zallanora" appears to be a neutral female elf wizard of 3rd level. In truth, "she" is a neutral-evil human male necromancer of 36th level. Because of the unique magic that freed Shoon from the Tome of the Unicorn, he can tap the full magical potential that he built up over time, despite the limitations that normally bind elven wizards, and he still gains all the innate physical abilities of elves. (NOTE: The remark about "the limitations that bind elven wizards" seems to be a reference from the 2E rules, and thus, does not apply in 3.5E.) History: Only 12 short years ago, Zallanora Argentresses had completed an extended apprenticeship at the Mystics' Academy in Erlkazar. The maid from Mosstone traveled north toward Silverymoon and the Lady's College, to expand her knowledge of magic. She never arrived there, as she and her companions were accosted in the Cloud Peaks by the mad Calishite wizard Shond Tharovin and his agents on the day the Gods Fell and the Time of Troubles began. Magical chaos reigned. Tharovin unleashed the skull of Shoon and fed her friends to that evil demilich of the Tome of the Unicorn, which Tharovin had recently stolen from Ruathym. When Zallanora faced the demilich and it attempted to drink her soul, the magical anarchy of the times altered the magic; the minds and spirits of Shoon and the elf switched bodies. The hapless elf is now trapped in a skull within the Tome of the Unicorn, and Shoon VII now walks the Realms in a most unexpected form. Shoon has begun to weave his webs of power and influence. As he once ruled from the High Moor to the Shining Sea, he vows to do so again, but slowly. In his elven body, he has centuries of time in which to act, and his knowledge of lichdom affords centuries more, if need be. Recently Shoon joined the Cowled Wizards of Amn to "learn of magic." While he uses his new body to attract attention and tutors, he plans to influence those tutors, stealing knowledge of magic and the current Realms until he has subverted the Cowled Wizards to become a tool with which he can rebuild his empire. Shoon is acutely aware of the existence and goals of the Shadow Thieves and the Twisted Rune. While he will allow the Shadow Thieves to continue (as he has little worry over the machinations of thieves to be turned to his side at his will), the Rune's plans for conquest interfere with his own. Should he track down a ruling member of this cabal of liches, he will offer a simple choice: Join me so we may rule the Rune together, or be destroyed. He has learned that Uruathis, a lamia noble among the ruins of Shoonach and an agent of Kartak Spellseer, knows of the Rune, and he plans to capture one of the many vampires of Shoonach to find out its secrets as well. Shoon keeps a number of lairs currently, though the only one known to most are "her" apprentice's quarters with Lady Varytha Gheldieg's estate in Eshpurta. Shoon also has ways to reach some secret chambers beneath the ruined Imperial Palace at Shoonach; from these, he has secretly retrieved only an amulet of proof against detection and location, elven cloak and elven boots (for his disguise as Zallanora), and a ring of mind shielding taken from his many caches of magic to protect his identity and true motives. He has lairs among all mountains and forests in the entire Lands of Intrigue, all undiscovered for the last 1,000 years. Lady Varytha has stressed to "Zallanora" the importance of using her looks and charm to woo other Cowled Wizards and gain knowledge, influence, and power; Varytha sees the young elf as a way to gain inside information and influence for herself. Shoon is amused by these minor intrigues while he builds his influence among more than a dozen Cowled Wizards in Eshpurta, Keczulla, and Esmeltaran. When the time is right, the fortunes of his "mentor" will fund a mercenary army or buy more influence elsewhere; then, with the Cowled Wizards as his magical enforcers and shock troops, the Shoon Empire will rise again. For now, Shoon bides his time and allows "Zallanora" to be wide-eyed at all the attention "she" attracts. The Tome of the Unicorn is a large book, 2 feet broad with a 3-foot spine, and over 4 inches thick. Its covers and pages are 31 polished plates of electrum, each blank to a casual observer. (Despite the legends surrounding this grimoire, it is not bound in unicorn hide or horn.) However, if any page is concentrated upon to the exclusion of all other activities, its contents, written in Thorass, begin to appear on the "blank" page in 3-8 (1d6+2) rounds; the writing remains for 3-8 rounds after study ceases. The book bears no title or identifying marks. History & Lore Sages and bards of the Realms claim that the Tome of the Unicorn is the long-lost grimoire of the mage-king of Iltkazar, a realm in eastern Calimshan lost over 900 years ago. That is technically true, as Iltkazar was a vassal state at the time, its throne held in abeyance by a wizard overlord: His Imperial Majesty, the most-Mighty Emperor Shoon VII of the Shoon Empire. The tales about the Tome say it contains many unique spells found nowhere else, including the means to create a permanent gate between planes of existence, the means to construct golem armies, and necromantic spells that could animate and control whole graveyards of undead soldiers! The Tome gains its name from its construction during the Shoon Empire's waning years. To preserve the book's final enchantments, the Mage-King bathed the metal bookplates in the blood of 12 slaughtered unicorns in the Year of Mourning Horns (355 DR). This act (along with the butchery of nearly an entire tribe of elves that protected the unicorns) earned Shoon VII the eternal enmity of elves and druids across Faerūn. Twelve years after he finished The Tome of the Unicorn, in the Year of Shying Eyes (367 DR), Shoon VII faked his own death, manipulating his greedy daughter into having him poisoned without her knowing he was immune to such effects. Without the empire to distract him, Shoon VII pursued and achieved lichdom three years later. Now, Shoon planned to rule from behind the throne of his descendants. To the blessing of the Realms, his attention to his magic and lack of attention to his empire during his lifetime, and his daughter's and great-grandson's poor management skills, helped usher in the empires collapse only 33 years after his death. Still, Shoon secreted many of his magical items and artifacts to his safeholds about the empire, but he kept his precious Tome with him to prevent its loss to the dragon Iryklathagra "Sharpfangs," the blue wyrm who had stolen his unicorn-horn Staff of Shoon a century before. Shoon himself refuses to speak of the next seven centuries of his undeath, and little evidence of any activity traceable to him or the Tome is recorded. Most elven histories (only the elves were certain that he survived as a lich) mention that he fled deep into the earth to avoid their retribution; it is possible he established safeholds within the ruins of Deep Shanatar, as his dungeons beneath the Imperial Mount of Shoonach had many links to the deep caverns. At some point during this time period, however, Shoon's form degenerated into a demilich, and his skull and remains were now imprisoned within the last page of the Tome of the Unicorn. Whether Shoon was the engineer of this fate or he was confined there by an enemy is unknown, as is the origin of the extradimensional pocket on the Tome's last page where Shoon's remains rested until summoned. The next recorded sighting of the Tome was in Baldur's Gate in the Year of the Skulk (1107 DR); it was in the possession of the sage and historian Bhaernom Khreyt, an expert on the Shoon Empire. He never reported how he got the book, and his ship, the Wave Wizardess, sank with the loss of all hands on its way to the Moonshaes later that year. Inexplicably, the Tome turned up in royal hands on Ruathym by the Year of Azure Blood (1126 DR). The grimoire remained in the Green Rooms of Ruathym until Tarsakh in the Year of the Prince (1357 DR), when the Tome was stolen by the wizard Shond Tharovin. Unlike many who fell before the demilich Shoon, Shond Tharovin managed to both summon the skull from the Tome and successfully communicate with it. If Tharovin would find seven spirits for Shoon to consume, Shoon would tell the mortal of the location of a lost artifact, the powerful Living Gem. The Calishite mage and his agents waylaid Zallanora Argentresses and a small caravan on its way north through the Cloud Peaks. Tharovin released Shoon from the Tome, and the skull proceeded to consume the magic and spirits of the travelers. As Shoon's levitating skull advanced on Zallanora, the Time of Troubles began warping magic in mysterious ways. The two beings switched spirits' Shoon was free of the Tome's imprisonment, and innocent Zallanora was now trapped in the book, reduced to a pitiful spirit within the crumbling bones of the emperor. After the switch, Shoon and Tharovin destroyed all traces of the caravan, making it appear as if the magical chaos claimed their lives. Shoon, true to his word, gave his ally the location of the Living Gem - a subterranean temple to Ghaunadaur under the Forest of Mir. Of course, the crafty lich-turned-elf purposely did not provide directions to the place. The Living Gem had not been found in over 200 years, and it took Shond Tharovin almost 10 years to locate it. During that time, Shoon acclimated himself to the Realms, lying low for over a decade as his first look at Faerūn in centuries consisted of fallen gods, magical chaos, and almost no trace of his empire. The Tome of the Unicorn is in Shoon's possession, and he hid it in one of his primary safeholds under the ruins of Shoonach's Imperial Mount. The spirit of Zallanora languishes within, despairing and going mad from her situation. The likelihood of anyone surviving the many magical defenses set in and around a monster-riddled dungeon by a 36th-level necromancer precludes any worry of the immediate uncovering of Shoon's masquerade. Still, 'Zallanora' makes a visit at least once every month to the Imperial Mount to check on the Tome's security. Contents The contents are 23 spells, one to a page, in the following order after the cover is opened: charm person, darkness 15 - radius, ESP, scare, dispel magic, charm monster, fear, fire trap, polymorph other, wizard eye, animate dead, death spell, duo-dimension, phase door, statue, clone, glassteel, permanency, power word - blind, trap the soul, gate, imprisonment, and power word - kill. The remaining six pages function as a wizards manual of golems [see the DMG for details] for the making of stone and iron golems only; normal costs and study times apply. The gate spell on page 21 includes instructions on how to make such a gate permanent, involving permanency and a dust compounded of several rare ingredients, including certain rare crushed gemstones, oil of etherealness, and the blood of at least six creatures (three or more native to each plane the gate reaches). The imprisonment and power word - kill spells on pages 22 and 23 are part of the book's curse. Every time either of these pages is perused, there is a 7% noncumulative chance that the reader will suffer imprisonment as per the spell. The inside front cover contains no spell, but a protective spell turning magic has been cast upon it. If the book saves against any magical or physical attack, the damage of said attack is reflected 100% onto the attacker. The back cover contains an extradimensional space in which Shoon's demilich remains lie. Each time the book is opened, there is a 9% noncumulative chance that the demilich's skull emerges from the book and attacks; the metal pages change into a skull shape, then appear to melt off the skull and reform as it rises. [See the MONSTROUS MANUAL tome, 'Lich,' for more on the demilich.] If either side of the back cover of the Tome is deliberately concentrated upon, this chance increases to a 100% likelihood. The demilich appears only as a skull, and the stolen spell energy that it has absorbed over the years has kept it relatively intact, though its gem teeth contain no souls. The skull will also emerge if the book suffers more than 13 points of damage of any kind, or if it is destroyed. While many theorize that the destruction of the Tome of the Unicorn would also destroy Shoon, this is incorrect - the Tome's destruction simply frees the demilich, and its physical remains become stationary at the point where the Tome was destroyed. The skull levitates above the Tome after emerging; depending on whose soul it hosts, its actions vary. Player characters may encounter the Tome of the Unicorn at different times during its history. Thus, both versions of the Tome's demilich passenger are provided below to make this grimoire useful to a DM. The Shoon Demilich: Upon emerging from the Tome, the skull does not howl. Instead, it hovers in midair, casting spells and waiting until the third round of its appearance to drain a soul. Shoon is interested only in draining souls, rather than simply slaying people, and he attempts to drain souls every third round until successful. Normally, a successful soul drain sends Shoon's skull back into the Tome; however, if someone continues to concentrate on the back cover of the grimoire, Shoon remains active and continues his attacks as above until another successful soul draining. The Shoon demilich never speaks unless addressed respectfully as "Emperor" or if speak with dead, ESP, or telepathy (magical or psionic) are used on the skull. As a demilich, Shoon is cynical, cold-blooded, uncaring, and quite knowledgeable of long-ago doings and magical lore. He converses calmly in a deadpan tone at all times, even while attacking. The Zallanora Demilich: Zallanora is nearly mad with fear and despair, and thus is an even more dangerous opponent. The skull moves quickly and nervously, and Zallanora's speech is rapid and raw with panic. She doesn't understand what's happened and is horrified of what this body is and what it can do; she cannot control it. Unless characters talk Zallanora to a semblance of calm, she randomly howls or drains souls in her panic. With each effect (successful or not), Zallanora wails in terror at what she's done. Zallanora doesn't go back into the book; once free, the young elf (as a skull) continues howling until either death or another force releases her from this inhuman bondage. Shoon (in Zallanora's body) is curious about unleashing Zallanora from the Tome in order to toy with her, but he is unsure of the effects. He believes she might be able to soul drain him, which might return their spirits to their proper bodies. While the experiment is a curiosity to him, he does not wish to give up his freedom or this new body. Enchantments placed on the Tome by its creator allow both demiliches to use stealspell to gain one spell once a round from the mind of any one person who touches the Tome, no matter how brief a contact. (Stealspell is described below.) Only spells from the wizard's spell lists are susceptible to stealspell, so priest's spells (even if identical in name and function) are immune to this effect. If the target does not have any spells or makes a successful saving throw vs. spell (at a -1 penalty), the attempt fails. Stealspell is not hampered by unconsciousness, insanity, anti-magic shell, mind bar, or similar magical or psionic protections. The spell transfer takes place immediately, but the stolen spell is chosen randomly. The demilich can use the energy of the stolen wizard's spell(s) in two ways. First, it can immediately use spells to replace lost hit points (2d4 hit points per spell level). Second, it can retain spells in its memory and cast them one per round, beginning the round after the stealspell effect, as if the spell were cast by the original caster. The demilich can only retain an amount of spells equal to the amounts it could carry upon gaining lichdom. The Shoon demilich, as a 36th-level necromancer, could hold and cast up to 81 spells (9 of each level) but only held the following in memory around the time of its theft from Ruathym: Bigby's forceful hand, cone of cold, dispel magic (x3), hold person (x2), lightning bolt, and spell turning (all spells at minimum level casting +1d4 levels). The Zallanora demilich currently holds only one spell in her memory (memorized before she became part of the Tome): light (at 2nd level casting). Unlike the wizards' spell below, the demilich of the Tome retains the stolen spell indefinitely until it is cast or used to heal damage to the skull. Neither Shoon nor Zallanora, as demiliches, are capable of memorizing spells as they once did, so their spellcasting is limited to what they can stealspell. This is a potent artifact. Great care and consideration should be given to its impact on characters and the game world alike before introducing this grimoire into an ongoing campaign. Stealspell Wizard: 7th level (Enchantment/Charm) Range: 10 yds/level Components: V, S Duration: 24 hrs or until cast Casting Time: 7 Area of Effect: One creature Saving Throw: Neg. By means of this incantation, any one being indicated by the caster (within the spell's range) is robbed of any one memorized wizard's spell or spell-like ability from his or her mind, which can then be cast against the victim. The target must make a saving throw vs. spell at a -1 penalty to successfully resist the effects of this spell; creatures not native to the Prime Material Plane make saving throws without the penalty. The stolen spell is chosen randomly, and the stealspell even works against victims who are unconscious, insane, or protected by psionics, anti-magic shell, mind bar, and other like magical and psionic protections. A stolen spell can be held in memory or cast by the user of the spell in the round after which it was stolen. The spell is cast without need for material components, sufficient level, or even an understanding of the spell on the part of the caster. All the caster of a stealspell knows of his captured spell is how many spell levels it contained, and how much power it will unleash once used. A stolen spell acts as if the being it was stolen from had cast it; thus, the material components of the spell, held by the stealspell's victim, are consumed. The spell taken by the stealspell must be discharged within 24 hours of the stealspell's casting, or the stolen spell vanishes from the caster's mind. The spell stolen by this casting can only be among the wizards' spell lists; spells with identical names from the priests' spell lists are immune, as are like-named psionic effects. Priests with the ability to cast wizards' spells are susceptible to having such spells stolen by the stealspell, but their regular priest spells are immune. This powerful spell is rarely known west of the Sea of Fallen Stars, and it is even more rare to find it beyond the circles of the Witches of Rashemen. While it is not known how it fell into Shoon's hands, he managed to master it enough to permanently enchant its effects into the Tome of the Unicorn. I want to highlight the following passage notes for discussion: Unlike many who fell before the demilich Shoon, Shond Tharovin managed to both summon the skull from the Tome and successfully communicate with it. If Tharovin would find seven spirits for Shoon to consume, Shoon would tell the mortal of the location of a lost artifact, the powerful Living Gem. … While many theorize that the destruction of the Tome of the Unicorn would also destroy Shoon, this is incorrect - the Tome's destruction simply frees the demilich, and its physical remains become stationary at the point where the Tome was destroyed. … Shoon (in Zallanora's body) is curious about unleashing Zallanora from the Tome in order to toy with her, but he is unsure of the effects. He believes she might be able to soul drain him, which might return their spirits to their proper bodies. While the experiment is a curiosity to him, he does not wish to give up his freedom or this new body. These three things do not make much sense to me. First of note, if the Tome of the Unicorn was Shoon VII's Phylactery wouldn't its destruction also destroy Shoon VII? Canonically, this is not the case, and thus it seems reasonable to conclude that it is not his Phylactery. However, even more interesting seems to be the fact that Shoon VII did not (and still does not) realize that destroying the Tome would free him. The last passage of the quote clearly illustrates that he has no desire to return to the Tome. This would indicate that he did not enter the Tome willingly and that it was some type of prison. If you look at his interactions with Shond Tharovin, and his request to steal souls, it seems that if he wanted to be free he simply would have requested Shond to destroy the Tome. It seems to me that if he wanted to return to his normal form he could. In this scenario he destroys the tome, which frees Zallanora from her imprisonment within the Tome. She then, in her madness, soul drains him, returning them to their proper bodies. Since the Tome is destroyed and they are in their proper bodies, Shoon VII is free, and then can therefore kill Zallanora as he originally intended while returning to his demi-lich form. However, it is clear that Shoon VII does not realize this despite the fact that he was the creator of the Tome. I would then draw attention to this quote. The imprisonment and power word - kill spells on pages 22 and 23 are part of the book's curse. Every time either of these pages is perused, there is a 7% noncumulative chance that the reader will suffer imprisonment as per the spell. The back cover contains an extradimensional space in which Shoon's demilich remains lie. Why would Shoon VII curse his own tome, a tome that he no doubt used regularly? It seems that the curse might have been placed by someone else, perhaps in retribution for the method of its creation, and that the imprisonment effect was meant for Shoon VII. Thus, as he read the tome, he was imprisoned within its extradimensional space. If the above is true then who is the culprit? First on the list would be any number of High Elven Magi, but I would also include various Chosen and other powerful good-aligned allies of the Elves. Perhaps even a deity. What seems certain if this is true, however, is that whoever it was they had to be powerful enough to not only modify the Tome of the Unicorn but to also do it without Shoon VII realizing it. In any event, I think we can rule out the Tome of the Unicorn as the Phylactery of Shoon VII, considering that it frees him upon destruction, the complete opposite of what a Phylactery would do if destroyed. This brings up an additional interesting question: Where is Shoon VII's Phylactery? I postulate that it may have been destroyed in the soul-swapping process. The Phylactery contains the soul of the Lich, and since the Phylactery no longer contains his soul (obviously considering it is in the body of Zallanora) it means one of two things. 1. Zallanora's soul is within the phylactery. 2. Zallanora's soul is within the demi-lich form of Shoon VII, and the phylactery is soulless and therefore powerless. If the first is true then Shoon VII, obviously knowing the location of the phylactery, could destroy it and therefore destroy Zallanora - eliminating all fears of returning to the Tome. He could then perform Lichdom a second time if he so desired. Of course, there may be some law of unintended consequences going on if the phylactery is destroyed. Is it possible that a small slither of Shoon VII's soul remained within the phylactery, just enough to keep it "powered"? If he destroyed it would he indirectly commit some type of bazaar suicide? If some slither of his soul is connected to the phylactery and he dies in the form of Zallanora, would he return to the phylactery just as a normal lich would? Would he and Zallanora "switch places" upon his death? (In other words, killing Shoon as Zallanora would really just kill Zallanora and force Shoon VII back into his demilich form.) I think for the sake of making things simple (and avoiding all sorts of unintended consequences and loopholes that could easily be exploited by someone as intelligent as Shoon VII) that the second should be the case. This would mean that Zallanora is not really "undead" but merely "unliving". Her soul is trapped within the demilich form of Shoon VII, not his phylactery, and the phylactery itself (as Shoon VII would have discovered almost as soon as he was freed) is completely useless and powerless. This could be bad for Shoon VII should he desire (or be forced into) a return to his former body. He also would become "unliving" rather than "undead" and there could be a whole new host of unintended consequences. Could he once again perform the ritual of Lichdom or would he forever be stuck as an "unliving" demilich - which undermines the whole concept of Lichdom in the first place! (While being unliving would still grant him immortality, I suppose, it would take away many of the benefits of being undead and without the phylactery he is just as vulnerable to death as everyone else if killed. At the same time, he'd still maintain all the disadvantages of being undead - a rather disheartening trade-off!) I think the second is most likely the case because Shoon VII is obviously in the dark regarding at least one attribute of the Tome. This means if he wanted to ensure that he could not be imprisoned back in the Tome it would require for him to find a third party to destroy the Tome, which would free Zallanora, and for that third party to destroy Zallanora. This, of course, assumes that like destroying the body of Zallanora while Shoon VII is within it, that it would not cause the true-owner of the body to die and for them to once again 'switch'. (In other words, if someone were to destroy the demilich Zallanora, it could kill Shoon VII, while returning Zallanora to her proper body.) I would imagine that Shoon VII has reasoned all of these possibilities out, and because he does not know the consequences of his actions he has decided to keep Zallanora trapped within the Tome, and keep the Tome safe to avoid any of the possibilities. With the above in mind I am deducing the following: 1. Zallanora is a 3rd Level Unliving Demilich, with her soul trapped within the demilich form of Shoon VII. 2. If Zallanora the Demilich is killed it kills Shoon VII because he still maintains a tentative connection to his body. Zallanora therefore regains her former body. 3. If Shoon VII is killed while inhabiting the body of Zallanora it really kills Zallanora. Shoon VII is then forced back into his demilich form and becomes an unliving demilich due to the destruction of his phylactery. 4. Due to the tentative connection between his former body and Zallanora if Shoon VII attempts to become a Lich in his new form, and is destroyed as a Lich, there could be a whole host of unintended consequences for both himself and Zallanora. (This could range from the failure to actually become a Lich, the destruction of them both, to a possible merger of both beings if the Lich form is destroyed and forced into the phylactery.) Shoon VII realizes the potential for all of the above and therefore must seek an alternative method of immortality. I am labeling these as merely "probable possibilities" and not "facts" (as in - they are certain to happen). These would be things that Shoon VII realizes and therefore takes into consideration, and it explains why he maintains the Tome as he does and has not attempted to regain Lichdom or his former body. Thoughts? |
| Meldread03-26-08, 08:23 AM | Oh, and on the note of Shoon VII using his feminine elven wiles... Recently Shoon joined the Cowled Wizards of Amn to "learn of magic." While he uses his new body to attract attention and tutors, he plans to influence those tutors, stealing knowledge of magic and the current Realms until he has subverted the Cowled Wizards to become a tool with which he can rebuild his empire. ... Lady Varytha has stressed to "Zallanora" the importance of using her looks and charm to woo other Cowled Wizards and gain knowledge, influence, and power; Varytha sees the young elf as a way to gain inside information and influence for herself. So yes, he is using his body. ;) |
| Alleran03-26-08, 10:29 AM | Why would Shoon VII curse his own tome, a tome that he no doubt used regularly? Because he didn't want people poking through his stuff? He would have obviously known about the curse (since he did put it there), so he could avoid it. Or it may even have been specifically triggered to not affect him. |
| Meldread03-26-08, 05:34 PM | Because he didn't want people poking through his stuff? He would have obviously known about the curse (since he did put it there), so he could avoid it. Or it may even have been specifically triggered to not affect him. That could be true, but if that is the case how did he end up trapped within a book of his own design? Here is the situation: An extremely powerful wizard creates a powerful tome, which works fine for years upon years, and then suddenly one day... he's trapped inside of it. |
| Lord Karsus03-26-08, 07:41 PM | Because he didn't want people poking through his stuff? He would have obviously known about the curse (since he did put it there), so he could avoid it. Or it may even have been specifically triggered to not affect him. -I like that theory. That could be true, but if that is the case how did he end up trapped within a book of his own design? -There's plenty of ways how this could have happened. The most simply, and ambiguous, is that a rival learned of it's existence, and was able to alter it's magical properties without Shoon knowing. |
| Meldread03-26-08, 08:01 PM | There's plenty of ways how this could have happened. The most simply, and ambiguous, is that a rival learned of it's existence, and was able to alter it's magical properties without Shoon knowing. Yes, and that brings us back full circle more-or-less. :P It seems that the curse might have been placed by someone else, perhaps in retribution for the method of its creation, and that the imprisonment effect was meant for Shoon VII. Thus, as he read the tome, he was imprisoned within its extradimensional space. If the above is true then who is the culprit? First on the list would be any number of High Elven Magi, but I would also include various Chosen and other powerful good-aligned allies of the Elves. Perhaps even a deity. What seems certain if this is true, however, is that whoever it was they had to be powerful enough to not only modify the Tome of the Unicorn but to also do it without Shoon VII realizing it. Other than that, what are the thoughts on the other things I talked about? |
| Alleran03-26-08, 10:01 PM | Yes, and that brings us back full circle more-or-less. Back to that? It doesn't necessarily have to be a "powerful good guy" altering the curse. As powerful as he is, I would expect that there are characters out there who rival or exceed Shoon in power, probably evil ones of his level as well, and they may not have wanted him around. |
| Lord Karsus03-26-08, 11:45 PM | As powerful as he is, I would expect that there are characters out there who rival or exceed Shoon in power, probably evil ones of his level as well, and they may not have wanted him around. -That's what I was thinking as well. A descendant, perhaps, who had his/her eyes on the "throne", knew that Shoon VII was a Lich, and had access to his "inner sanctum". |
| Meldread03-27-08, 01:09 AM | That's true, although I think if you look at the list of Shoon VII's enemies you'll notice a far greater number of them on the side of "good" (read: everyone). :P Shoon VII does not seem to mind sharing power at least somewhat, considering he was willing to allow his children to ascend to the Throne and fake his own death. That character trait makes him somewhat unique when it comes to villainous characters, as many FR villains seem obsessed with being the only one. That seemed to be his approach to the Twisted Rune as well, wanting them to work together with him, rather than how the Twisted Rune currently operates (each member working against the other, thus weakening the group as a whole). |
| Lord Karsus03-27-08, 01:17 AM | That seemed to be his approach to the Twisted Rune as well, wanting them to work together with him, rather than how the Twisted Rune currently operates (each member working against the other, thus weakening the group as a whole). -A demonstration of the "evil is not stupid" phenominon. ;) -I know, if I was an evil individual, I'd attempt to befriend any others like me, rather than alienate them. |
| MarkusTay6303-27-08, 01:27 AM | -That's what I was thinking as well. A descendant, perhaps, who had his/her eyes on the "throne", knew that Shoon VII was a Lich, and had access to his "inner sanctum".As far as the 'Big Six' go, the only Lich lower then him on that very short list would be Szass Tam. The others being Larloch, Ioulum, Aumvor, and Ambuchar Devyam (Tan Chin) Poor Szass - at home he's the big man on campus, but at the Lich's guild meetings, he's low man on the totem pole. :P Of course, thats only amongst the Uber-Lichs... |
| Alleran03-27-08, 01:39 AM | As far as the 'Big Six' go, the only Lich lower then him on that very short list would be Szass Tam. That we know of, at least. I'd be willing to bet that there are more than a few Liches (or even the occasional non-Lich) out there who have 30-40 levels, but we just don't know their names. The Realms is, after all, a very big place. If you keep your head down, then one can probably avoid any attention or involvement in large events. How often do we hear about Larloch, for example? We know he exists, we know that you'd have to be an idiot to try and take him on, and yet we also know that he doesn't get involved with wars and so on. |
| Lord Karsus03-27-08, 01:41 AM | As far as the 'Big Six' go, the only Lich lower then him on that very short list would be Szass Tam. -Well, I wasn't implying that said individual had to be a Lich. In fact, I was thinking more along the lines of a family member, jealous of Shoon VII's power, a servant, who perhaps wanted revenge, a vassal looking to supplant his/her superior..."Mundane" things like that. |
| MarkusTay6303-27-08, 11:27 PM | Sorry, that was actually a mis-quote. I meant to quote the same thing you had quoted, and I quoted you by accident. My answer really had nothing at all to do with what you said. :D Tan Chin used to be the only Imaskari Lich that we know of, but there are at least two other living Imaskari that probably rival him for power. I'm talking about REAL Imaskari, BTW, from back when they had an empire, not those guys that fled underground, who are merely decendents of them. Also, that Lich (Baelnorn) who gaurds the Calimemnon Crytal is MIGHTY old... even older then Imaskar. |
| Lord Karsus03-27-08, 11:32 PM | Sorry, that was actually a mis-quote. I meant to quote the same thing you had quoted, and I quoted you by accident. My answer really had nothing at all to do with what you said. :D -I know, I was a bit confused. Also, that Lich (Baelnorn) who gaurds the Calimemnon Crytal is MIGHTY old... even older then Imaskar. -Pharos (Moon Elf Wizard 24). |
| Vulpes03-28-08, 12:51 AM | Tan Chin used to be the only Imaskari Lich that we know of, but there are at least two other living Imaskari that probably rival him for power. I'm talking about REAL Imaskari, BTW, from back when they had an empire, not those guys that fled underground, who are merely decendents of them. Curious, I know Halaster is one, but who is the other living Imaskari you're talking about? (There is only one now, bhouth, I guess, unless Halaster gets his soul back together.) And, hey, don't knock the Deep Imaskari! I like those guys. :) |
| MarkusTay6303-28-08, 03:13 AM | His name is Yaravindar Ipurnos (LN male Imaskari human Conjuror 28/ Rogue 3/ Archmage 5), and he occupies the Violet Spire in the Endless wastes. I was thinking of Halaster for the other one... who the hell is Bhouth? :confused: -Pharos (Moon Elf Wizard 24).And you believe that, do you? ;) Its amazing how a well-told lie can even make it into books on other worlds. :P |
| Lord Karsus03-28-08, 11:12 AM | And you believe that, do you? ;) Its amazing how a well-told lie can even make it into books on other worlds. :P -Uh...Yeah. Lost Empires of Faerūn states this. |
| MarkusTay6303-28-08, 04:08 PM | Not exactly a lie, then... more like a 'half truth'. ;) Wait and see.... :devil: |
| Lykor03-28-08, 08:33 PM | Although they never really statted them out, I think a bunch of the sarrukh liches would definately rank in the top 10 (although maybe not in class levels) given the massive powers of the sarrukh themselves. |
| Vulpes03-28-08, 10:40 PM | His name is Yaravindar Ipurnos (LN male Imaskari human Conjuror 28/ Rogue 3/ Archmage 5), and he occupies the Violet Spire in the Endless wastes. Thanks! I googled him; not much on him, but what there is sounds cool. I'm not good with stats: is he appropriately statted, do you think? Is he powerful for a, what, three thousand year old Imaskari articifer? |
| Lord Karsus03-28-08, 11:16 PM | -DOUBLE POST- |
| Lord Karsus03-28-08, 11:16 PM | Not exactly a lie, then... more like a 'half truth'. ;) Wait and see.... :devil: -Um...Okay...CCs are not canon, don't forget. |
| MarkusTay6303-29-08, 03:52 AM | Not for CC, for my EoF run article... :P He was the closest thing I could find to what I needed, but don't worry, I figure out what to do without violating previous lore. ;) As far as the Imaskari goes, he's a pretty recent addition to canon, so until we know more about him, I would say those stats are appropriate -(Conjurer 28/ Rogue 3/ Archmage 5). Not really 'getting' the Rogue part, but whatever, i didn't create him. |
| Lord Karsus03-29-08, 11:47 AM | Not for CC, for my EoF run article... :P -That's even less canon! That's, like, beneath canon. That's like Undercanon. That's like, that's like...:P |
| MarkusTay6303-29-08, 12:22 PM | CC I considered 'semi-canon' EoF I consider 'psuedo-canon' The Double Dimaond series and video games would then be Apocrypha. As long as something is released to the masses, and isn't just in someone's personal game, then I assign it a certain 'validity', even if its not official. ;) On my list of Drow 'Realms', I included the one from the Baldur's Gate game, but made sure I noted that in the footnotes. Yeah... I know... when the hell am I ever going to wrap that up? :embarrass |
| Lord Karsus03-29-08, 12:28 PM | Yeah... I know... when the hell am I ever going to wrap that up? :embarrass -Did I say anything? -Can you forward me a list of all of the Realms you've dug up (no pun intended), so I can add those settlements to the main list of settlements? I only included the major three Drow cities of Menzoberranzan, Ched Nesad, and Sshamath. That way, other people can also work on them. |
| MarkusTay6303-29-08, 02:30 PM | Most of them are not really Drow settlements, but rather areas where they hold some power. Thats why I changed the name from 'Drow Cities' to 'Drow Realms'. In that way, I can list places like Calimport, which has a massive amount of interaction with Drow in the past, and it's Underworld is currently controlled by Bregan D'aerthe (as well as Dalabad Oasis). The only one that I think would deserve any sort of full write-up is Sarenestar (Forest of Mir). The rest I have a enough to give people some idea about them, without going overboard. Afterall, do we really want to duplicate the information in Menzoberranzn, DDGttU, and Underdark? The tome is about Elves, not Drow. They stopped being Elves quite some time ago. I'm not talking about 4e, either - long before that announcement I had alluded to that very thing in my Elven physiology article. I think a small amount of information is okay, but Drow have gotten more official coverage then any other race, and quite truthfully, I think people are starting to get sick of it. Even me... and I like them. :( |
| Lord Karsus03-29-08, 02:35 PM | Most of them are not really Drow settlements, but rather areas where they hold some power. Thats why I changed the name from 'Drow Cities' to 'Drow Realms'. In that way, I can list places like Calimport, which has a massive amount of interaction with Drow in the past, and it's Underworld is currently controlled by Bregan D'aerthe (as well as Dalabad Oasis). -Realms...Cities...The chapter is called 'Elven Realms', anyway, so...;) Afterall, do we really want to duplicate the information in Menzoberranzn, DDGttU, and Underdark? -Yes. 80% of the entire thing is duplication from other sources. The tome is about Elves, not Drow. They stopped being Elves quite some time ago. I'm not talking about 4e, either - long before that announcement I had alluded to that very thing in my Elven physiology article. -They are still an Elven subrace, and as such, are getting the same treatment as any other Elven subrace in the book. It's just that, as no one who is working with us is particularly enamoured with them, except for you, they haven't gotten much coverage yet. -Now, enough with the delaying, and forward me the list. :P |
| Ifthir03-31-08, 08:22 PM | Whenever you find a Lich, it a sure-fire gaurantee that his Phylactory is near him. This is true, but finding said phylactery is another issue altogether. Good luck finding Dethed's finger the next time you visit Aumvor :eek: All the info about Liches and their relationship to their phylactorys is on pg. 53 of Van Richten's guide to the Lich. It seems the Lich CAN'T form a new body; what it must do is take over another nearby dead body, and that is why they do not put their phylactorys in out-of-the-way places. In order to 'come back', the Lich must possess a 'host body' - that is, take-over another corpse within 60 ft of his Phylactory! Does Ravenloft qualify as FR canon? There is precedent that it does (Gondegal (Side note: Gondegal, oddly was lost to the Demiplane of Dread in the same year the Black Chronology began.) but was not sure if it does. Clarify for me as I know you know the realms better than I :) |