Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hanali-in-Love 12-08-07, 11:32 PM	I would just like to know what NPC's have been killed off as far as we know to make way for 4Ed? All I know of right now are Halaster and Darkhope. :confused:
Hanali-in-Love 12-09-07, 12:22 AM	Okay, I just found out that Khelben as well? Who else?
HralorpAxpain 12-09-07, 12:28 AM	Vhaeraun Deep Duerra Mystra The Gnome Pantheon. Maybe Eilistraee. Maybe some of (or all of) the 7 Sisters (we don't know yet). Maybe other Chosen of Mystra (except Elminster, but his power maybe reduced, we don't know yet) If the timeline leap is 10 years, then many NPCs will survive, if the leap is 100, then expect to say bye-bye to all humans, halflings, orcs, goblinoids and elderly dwarves and elves (unless they've used magic to extend their life or have accidently drained energy from a shade, like Artemis Entreri has). That means bye-bye to Catti-brie, Regis, Cadderly Bonaduce and many other NPCs from across the Realms.
18DELTA 12-09-07, 12:36 AM	Well we do know that Drizzt and Elminster survive.:rolleyes: Anybody other than those 2 is anybodys guess.:rolleyes: Other than those already posted.:rolleyes: Lets have a moment of silence, for those snuffed out by $E.:rolleyes:
HralorpAxpain 12-09-07, 12:44 AM	Well we do know that Drizzt and Elminster survive.:rolleyes: Anybody other than those 2 is anybodys guess.:rolleyes: Other than those already posted.:rolleyes: Lets have a moment of silence, for those snuffed out by $E.:rolleyes: I should think Jarlaxle and the members of Bregan D'aerthe will still be around too. Actually, is the Gnome Pantheon being killed-off? There's also the other Duergar god being killed-off too actually. The Red Wizards of Thay NPCs may also be killed off, not that I can think of any particular NPC for the moment. The same maybe true of the Zhentarim.
Green Elven Vampire 12-09-07, 12:55 AM	Halaster Scyllua Darkhope Khelben Arunsun Laeral Silverhand Bruenor Battlehammer Cadderly Bonaduce Sylune Silverhand Apparently all gnomes and their gods Off the top of my head, that's it for now.
HralorpAxpain 12-09-07, 01:17 AM	Halaster Scyllua Darkhope Khelben Arunsun Laeral Silverhand Bruenor Battlehammer Cadderly Bonaduce Sylune Silverhand Apparently all gnomes and their gods Off the top of my head, that's it for now. I presume Cadderly's missus (her name escapes me for the moment) as well? Where's the sources for Bruenor and Cadderly? I know they said the 7 Sisters will be affected, but where's the proof that Sylune and Laeral will die?
Vulpes 12-09-07, 01:22 AM	Yeah, I hadn't heard that Laeral was dying, just that Sylune finally kicked it for real this time. Sucks for her twins if she dies. And it was my understanding that it wasn't so much that gnomes were just going to all spontaneously combust, just that they'd no longer be supported as player characters. So their pantheon might not, necessarily, be dead.
Dark Wizard 12-09-07, 01:24 AM	Combusting gnomes, now you know they've been hitting the smokepowder too hard.
HralorpAxpain 12-09-07, 01:48 AM	Yeah, I hadn't heard that Laeral was dying, just that Sylune finally kicked it for real this time. Sucks for her twins if she dies. And it was my understanding that it wasn't so much that gnomes were just going to all spontaneously combust, just that they'd no longer be supported as player characters. So their pantheon might not, necessarily, be dead. Indeed, that could be so (about the Gnome pantheon). Where does it mention Sylune? I'm just curious. I know the Prelude to The Orc King mentions someone close to Drizzt Do'Urdon dies in Luskan, but it doesn't specifically say it's Bruenor. It could be Innovindil or any other character close to him.
Dark Wizard 12-09-07, 01:52 AM	The Shadowdale adventure details Sylune's departure from the Realms.
GreenKnight 12-09-07, 02:35 PM	Apparently all gnomes and their gods Do you have any facts to back this up?
HralorpAxpain 12-09-07, 03:23 PM	Do you have any facts to back this up? It could just be that the Gnomes won't be playable as a character race and will thus be in the Monster Manual, but the message in Richard Baker's blog a month or so back wasn't clear. I don't have the link, so perhaps someone else could post it?
GreenKnight 12-09-07, 03:48 PM	Being in the Monster Manual doesn't mean that Gnomes won't be a playable character race. They've said several times that some of the entries in the Monster Manual will have monster stats as well as presenting the creature as a player race. It's reasonable to assume that Gnomes will be one of the playable character races that'll be in the Monster Manual. Either way, Gnomes will be in the Monster Manual. So all Gnomes aren't going to die.
Green Elven Vampire 12-09-07, 05:16 PM	Being in the Monster Manual doesn't mean that Gnomes won't be a playable character race. They've said several times that some of the entries in the Monster Manual will have monster stats as well as presenting the creature as a player race. It's reasonable to assume that Gnomes will be one of the playable character races that'll be in the Monster Manual. Either way, Gnomes will be in the Monster Manual. So all Gnomes aren't going to die. Man, you're much too literal.
GreenKnight 12-09-07, 06:14 PM	Problem is, people see your post and start thinking that Gnomes are going to be killed off. And before you know it, I have to wade through ten different threads with people complaining about "gnomes getting taken out of the Realms". So if I see someone posting obviously erroneous information then I'm going to correct them.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-09-07, 06:16 PM	Whoa! Laeral Silverhand Arunsun is not dead yet, and neither is Cadderly. Nor is Bruenor! The future may be bleak, but let's not get ahead of ourselves, either.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-09-07, 06:22 PM	Vhaeraun Deep Duerra Mystra The Gnome Pantheon. As mentioned before, it hasn't been confirmed anywhere that the Gnome Pantheon (along with their tiny followers) is going to be killed off. It's highly likely that some gnomish deities will turn out to be alternate identities of human deities, though (or vice versa) as Rich Baker said will be the case with the Seldarine and the other demihuman pantheons. Three other dwarven gods kicked the bucket along with Deep Duerra--Ladeguar (sp?), Gorm, and Halia Brightaxe (sp? I can never remember these names).
Zanan 12-09-07, 06:38 PM	AFAIK, the only thing which has been said about the gnomes is that they are not in the PHB 4E, but will be shifted to the MM. Keep in mind that up to this day, most player races are still to be found in the MM as well, elves, gnomes, halflings, dwarves, you name it. Man, I like the whisper gnomes! BTW, remind yourselves that none of the events have yet come to pass (Shadowdale aside (I have no clue about that)).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-09-07, 06:46 PM	BTW, remind yourselves that none of the events have yet come to pass (Shadowdale aside (I have no clue about that)). That's true in the sense that the supposed current year is only 1375 DR, and many of the events mentioned (such as the death of Mystra) are going to happen years later. However, hasn't Rich Baker also said that the FR design team will not be backpedaling on any of the future events laid out in the GHotR?
HralorpAxpain 12-09-07, 06:50 PM	As mentioned before, it hasn't been confirmed anywhere that the Gnome Pantheon (along with their tiny followers) is going to be killed off. It's highly likely that some gnomish deities will turn out to be alternate identities of human deities, though (or vice versa) as Rich Baker said will be the case with the Seldarine and the other demihuman pantheons. Yes, you are quite correct, as I mentioned in a previous thread. It all depends how one reads Richard Baker's blog. Three other dwarven gods kicked the bucket along with Deep Duerra--Ladeguar (sp?), Gorm, and Halia Brightaxe (sp? I can never remember these names). Yes, I forgot about Gorm Gulthryn and Haela Brightaxe (shame, as this will leave just Berronar and Sharindlar as Dwarven goddesses). I couldn't remember Laduguer's name earlier though, but knew he was getting killed-off as well. That's the whole Duergar pantheon getting killed. Who do the Derro worship?
Zanan 12-10-07, 04:04 AM	Unless Sharindlar will be put together with Hanali and Sharess and / or Sune into one deity, venerated by the various races under different names ... much like what is going to happen to Sehanine and Selûne.
Zireael 12-10-07, 09:35 AM	Derro worship Diirinka and Diirinkazan. Will they get kicked off too? And I hope Laeral will live on.
Kenzuki 12-11-07, 08:18 AM	Just HOW did the entire gray dwarf pantheon get wiped out? I mean a Pantheon of Gods just doesn't go poof one day....do they? Also can someone explain to me in detail the whole Helm/Tyr/Tyrmora thing as I don't have my copy of the book yet. Also how did Cyric gank Mystra on her own plane?
Alrunic Silverfyre 12-11-07, 08:30 AM	Just HOW did the entire gray dwarf pantheon get wiped out? I mean a Pantheon of Gods just doesn't go poof one day....do they? It goes poof if it makes room for $E weirdness. "Gnomes? Oh yeah, those ended up just being halflings who liked guns, tinkering, and had less hair. We're looking into dwarves too..."
GreenKnight 12-11-07, 08:07 PM	Just HOW did the entire gray dwarf pantheon get wiped out? I mean a Pantheon of Gods just doesn't go poof one day....do they? The entire Gray Dwarf "Pantheon" consisted of just two gods. And they got wiped out in battle with the regular Dwarven Pantheon. Basically, Moradin had enough of them, so he lead Abbathor, Berronar Truesilver, Clangeddin Silverbeard, Dumathoin, Sharindlar, Vergadain, Dugmaren Brightmantle, Gorm Gulthyn, Marthammor Duin, Thard Harr, and Haela Brightaxe against Laduguer and Deep Duerra. They were outnumbered 6-to-1, so the results were pretty much a given. An Intermediate God and Demigod aren't gonna last very long against one Greater God, six Intermediate Gods, four Lesser Gods, and one Demigod. Sadly, Gorm Gulthyn and Haela Brightaxe got killed in the battle (Which really shouldn't have happened. The power of the combined Dwarven gods was overwhelming. There's no way they would've suffered casualties in turn). Also can someone explain to me in detail the whole Helm/Tyr/Tyrmora thing as I don't have my copy of the book yet. Basically, this is what happend. Tyr and Siamorphe got into an argument. As a result, Siamorphe left the House of the Triad and she moves into Brightwater. Tyr sends Helm to Sune to complain about her taking in Siamorphe, so Sune suggests that Tyr marry Tymora in order to correct the imbalance (Which doesn't make any sense. Siamorphe is a Demigod. Tymora is an Intermediate God on the verge of becoming a Greater God. How is that a fair trade?). Tyr agrees to this and Helm starts to chaperone their dates. Tyr also has Helm deliver messages and gifts to Tymora, but for some reason, he thinks that Helm's putting the moves on his girl. So he challenges Helm to a duel and kills him. Tyr then goes back to the House of the Triad with a weepy Tymora in tow. Ilmater becomes ****** off about the whole thing, so he also leaves the House of the Triad and goes to Brightwater (And for some reason, Tyr decides not to complain to Sune about this, again. After all, there's clearly yet another imbalance between Brightwater and the House of the Triad). Also how did Cyric gank Mystra on her own plane? He had help from Shar. Beyond that, there aren't any details, save that Savras dies as a result of the destruction of Dweomerheart and Azuth and Velsharoon are left homeless in the Astral Sea.
Kenzuki 12-12-07, 02:22 PM	OK thanks alot I was confused as hell about that. But dang it does make Tyr look like a jerk and I know I wouldn't want some petty god like that decieding my Justice.... And WHY was Helm obeying Tyr he's not part of the Triad lol. Tyr: Hey Helm....how would you like to do me a favor. See there is this babe that I want to marry and well I'm too shy to go to her myself, can you do it for me old pal? Helm:......*sighs* Ok.... Helm goes to Tymora and gives her a gift from Tyr, all the while being uncomfortable as hell cause he's not that kind of guy. Tymora: Awwwe Helm that's so sweet, tell Tyr I said thanks. *gives Helm a hug and sends him on his way.* Tyr: WTF HELM you're hitting on my girlfriend! LET"S DUEL! Helm:.............
GreenKnight 12-12-07, 02:32 PM	Helm and Siamorphe, while not part of 'The Triad', still live in the House of the Triad and are subservient to Tyr. Or were, anyway, til Siamorphe bailed and Tyr killed Helm. And yeah, I imagine Helm must've been pretty ****** off about the whole thing towards the end of it, doing all that for Tyr only for Tyr to turn around and start pointing the stub on the end of his arm at him.
Kenzuki 12-12-07, 02:57 PM	Personally I see poor Helm as the victim of this. He's trying his best to help his friend and "landlord" win the heart of a women that he's too scared or shy to do himself. Then Tyr freaks out like an over paranoid boyfriend and acts like a jerk and in the end he kills Helm. I can understand why Ilmater got mad and left I'de do it too. I'm surprised TORM didn't do something considering how close Torm and Helm were supposed to be. Which is why I support Torm replacing Tyr and taking on Helms and Tyr's portfolios.
Khaelieth 12-12-07, 06:57 PM	Well, they've not killed of Sundstar, Jarlaxle or Kymil Nimesin yet. Only VERY dissapointed about Vhaeraun. One thing is toning down major NPC's, another is losing the flavour that is Faerûn.
Hanali-in-Love 12-13-07, 02:49 AM	Hmmmm... both of Corellon's children killed off? See a pattern here?
sfdragon 12-13-07, 04:19 AM	not really they could just remove the dark hearts on their skin deal and have her take her name before she used eilistraee.... anyway, where does it say that cadderly dies, I only remember the prologue stating that the greatest cathedral in the realms being destroyed and a dear dear friend dieing outside the ruins of proud luskan with all her dreams going up in smoke. which would only mean either its cadderly's wife, alustrial silverhand or his wife cattie-brie
Zireael 12-13-07, 07:46 AM	Eili is dead? Impossible. And is Catti Drizzt's wife??? And if the sentence was exactly that, I'd say it meant Danica, Cadderly's wife.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-13-07, 10:50 AM	Cattie-brie apparently is Drizzt's wife as per the latest novel, though they haven't had a formal ceremony yet. Also, we don't know that the cathedral Drizzt was talking about is Spirit Soaring, even if it is likely.
Alediran 12-13-07, 11:22 AM	Also, we don't know that the cathedral Drizzt was talking about is Spirit Soaring, even if it is likely. It's the only one he knows, and even we know that the Spirit Soaring is the biggest cathedral in Toril. Again WoTC destroying everything that can't be used to kill, loot or gain XP.
Hanali-in-Love 12-13-07, 12:02 PM	not really they could just remove the dark hearts on their skin deal and have her take her name before she used eilistraee.... anyway, where does it say that cadderly dies, I only remember the prologue stating that the greatest cathedral in the realms being destroyed and a dear dear friend dieing outside the ruins of proud luskan with all her dreams going up in smoke. which would only mean either its cadderly's wife, alustrial silverhand or his wife cattie-brie The greatest cathedral drizzit knows is The spirit soaring... Cadderly being a chosen wouldn't let that be destroyed without himself going down with it.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-13-07, 12:52 PM	It's the only one he knows, and even we know that the Spirit Soaring is the biggest cathedral in Toril. Not to be argumentitive, but are we certain about either of those points? After all, Drizzt has been to Waterdeep (plenty of temples there). Also, I think Drizzt said "grandest" cathedral, not necessarily "biggest" (could be wrong though).
Alediran 12-13-07, 12:55 PM	Not to be argumentitive, but are we certain about either of those points? After all, Drizzt has been to Waterdeep (plenty of temples there). Also, I think Drizzt said "grandest" cathedral, not necessarily "biggest" (could be wrong though). Drizt said that no holy place (except those dedicated to Mielikki) filled him with greater awe than the Spirit Soaring.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-13-07, 01:09 PM	Maybe.:) I'd suspect he was talking about the SS, myself, but RAS could still surprise us.
GreenKnight 12-13-07, 05:21 PM	I don't like making assumptions, myself, but it may be Spirit Soaring for a couple reasons. 1) Drizzt knows it, and was apparently pretty impressed by it. 2) It's an RAS creation, so it's believable that RAS would destroy that rather then something created by someone else. 3) If Deneir's reduced to a Demigod in 4E, then he won't have any worshippers. So Spirit Soaring won't serve any purpose. My take on it, anyway. Bear in mind, of course, that I haven't read any of the RAS novels, so I'm just taking what some people post at face value (About Drizzt's remarks about Spirit Soaring, etc).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-13-07, 05:52 PM	3) If Deneir's reduced to a Demigod in 4E, then he won't have any worshippers. So Spirit Soaring won't serve any purpose. Very true--that didn't even occur to me.
captaincarot 12-14-07, 12:30 PM	well considering the whole spell plague stuff an nonsense is supposed to make a right mess of every spell caster in the realms, i'd expect Thay to be a smoking ruin and all those uber powerful liches like szass to be gone.
captaincarot 12-14-07, 12:32 PM	Very true--that didn't even occur to me. it didn't occur to me either, but it still has the purpose of being one of the best seats of learning in the realms.
GreenKnight 12-14-07, 12:43 PM	Yeah, it could end up being rededicated to Oghma when Deneir's demotion goes through, so who knows. And hopefully it's a demotion. I find it much more plausible to say "Lord Ao changed the rules and decided to demote a bunch of gods to simply being servitor Demigods and not gods in their own right", rather then saying that they were never worshipped. I can see Ao doing it, too. With so many gods on Faerun, faith is fractured in endless permutations. Cut down on the number of gods, and you strengthen the gods who hold the more important Portfolios, as the worshippers of those old gods will be forced to find new ones (Likely the superiors of the once-gods-now-Demigods that they worshipped). That's one way to go, at any rate.
Zireael 12-17-07, 08:36 AM	It could be the Spirit Soaring, and I hope Catti isn't dead. Danica can be. and if Deneir is to be demoted then Cadderly could really have died....
Kenzuki 12-17-07, 09:16 AM	It could be the Spirit Soaring, and I hope Catti isn't dead. Danica can be. and if Deneir is to be demoted then Cadderly could really have died.... Considering that 4th Edition takes place 100 years in the future, combine that with the Spellplague and I'de pretty much say that Drizzt is going to be a widower :P It's fine though, he can hook up with someone else I'm sure.
CassiusSchermont 12-17-07, 12:40 PM	I actually read the book "Blackstaff" and I in no way see him being killed off in order for 4E to take place. In all actuality, he is killed off so a new Chosen of Mystra can rise. Though with Mystra's death, that seems to fall to the wayside. Most likely though, the Seven Sisters and the Chosen of Mystra will either go mad from Mystra's death, or they will align themselves with other powers. 4E doesn't scare me all that much. Plus when you just look over a long timeline and see crap like :Mystra dies. Of course that is going to jolt and frustrate you, but I haven't read the books that will come out that will tell the story. Once I read those, I'll be happy. Its the same feeling I got when I heard the Lolth goes silent and then goes on a rampage as does her daughter and slaughter the Drow Pantheon. But now that I'm reading the War of the Spider Queen trilogy, Lolth's actions make sense. Wait for the books and the storylines to come out. Then judge 4E on plot, not timeline.
GreenKnight 12-17-07, 09:03 PM	In all actuality, he is killed off so a new Chosen of Mystra can rise. Why would it be necessary to kill him for a new Chosen to be created? Mystra has several Chosen. She can create more without any having to be killed off, unless I completely missed something.
Green Elven Vampire 12-17-07, 09:42 PM	I actually read the book "Blackstaff" and I in no way see him being killed off in order for 4E to take place. In all actuality, he is killed off so a new Chosen of Mystra can rise. Though with Mystra's death, that seems to fall to the wayside. Most likely though, the Seven Sisters and the Chosen of Mystra will either go mad from Mystra's death, or they will align themselves with other powers. 4E doesn't scare me all that much. Plus when you just look over a long timeline and see crap like :Mystra dies. Of course that is going to jolt and frustrate you, but I haven't read the books that will come out that will tell the story. Once I read those, I'll be happy. Its the same feeling I got when I heard the Lolth goes silent and then goes on a rampage as does her daughter and slaughter the Drow Pantheon. But now that I'm reading the War of the Spider Queen trilogy, Lolth's actions make sense. Wait for the books and the storylines to come out. Then judge 4E on plot, not timeline. I could care less about Mystra to be honest. It's the deicide of the Demi-Human pantheons, such as the elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, etc... etc... The complete retcon of The Seldarine is a mistake I shall never forgive WoTc for. That ontop of the other horrible changes made to FR in 4ED was enough to keep me from buying a single 4ED product.
Lord Karsus 12-18-07, 12:37 AM	3) If Deneir's reduced to a Demigod in 4E, then he won't have any worshippers. So Spirit Soaring won't serve any purpose. -This isn't directed at you, GK, I'm just wondering outloud. Why can't a demigod have worshippers? Where'd all the loyal Denierites go?
Alediran 12-18-07, 09:44 AM	-This isn't directed at you, GK, I'm just wondering outloud. Why can't a demigod have worshippers? Where'd all the loyal Denierites go? Demigods will be in the Monster Manual MMMCVIII as Epic encounters.
Kenzuki 12-18-07, 09:48 AM	Concerning Blackstaff, he would have probably died anyway during the Spellplague. Doesn't it like supposedly kill wizards anyway? And with Mystra gone that means all the Chosen are going to be REGULAR mortals again! That means their enemies are going to have a ROCKING good time! Sucks to be Manshoon or Semmemon though I guess....wait is Semmemon even alive still?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-18-07, 11:03 AM	-This isn't directed at you, GK, I'm just wondering outloud. Why can't a demigod have worshippers? Where'd all the loyal Denierites go? I don't know the why of it, but I recall Rich Baker saying demigods would no longer have temples, clerics, and worshippers. They'd be more or less vassals of a Greater Power. I take this to be similar to the way the saints of the Catholic Church work--they are honored but not worshipped.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-18-07, 11:04 AM	Concerning Blackstaff, he would have probably died anyway during the Spellplague. That's not a given--after all, Elminster will be sticking around.:) Doesn't it like supposedly kill wizards anyway? We don't know exactly what it does yet. And with Mystra gone that means all the Chosen are going to be REGULAR mortals again! See above.
Kenzuki 12-18-07, 02:02 PM	That's not a given--after all, Elminster will be sticking around.:) We don't know exactly what it does yet. See above. True true, but I'de assume it's impossible to be the Chosen of a dead deity right? So wouldn't they stop being Chosen? Which means they'de lose a large chunk of power and start aging! Maybe....?
Lord Karsus 12-18-07, 02:56 PM	I don't know the why of it, but I recall Rich Baker saying demigods would no longer have temples, clerics, and worshippers. They'd be more or less vassals of a Greater Power. I take this to be similar to the way the saints of the Catholic Church work--they are honored but not worshipped. -This isn't directed necessarily at you, either Rino, but...Alright then. Where did all of the Temples of Denier, and all of those loyal Deneirites go? True true, but I'de assume it's impossible to be the Chosen of a dead deity right? So wouldn't they stop being Chosen? Which means they'de lose a large chunk of power and start aging! Maybe....? -Correct. Ex-Chosen, who became that way after the death of their deities exist- Sharuppak (Sp?), for example.
Kenzuki 12-18-07, 03:00 PM	Is an Ex-Chosen anything special?
Lord Karsus 12-18-07, 03:13 PM	Is an Ex-Chosen anything special? -They're former Chosen, that's all. They no longer have any special abilities or anything, but they retain all of the knowledge they've accrued over the years. As such, they're privvy to know all sorts of things.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-18-07, 03:44 PM	-This isn't directed necessarily at you, either Rino, but...Alright then. Where did all of the Temples of Denier, and all of those loyal Deneirites go? I guess those temples will convert (or be retconed) into temples of Oghma or something. And Deneirites will "really" be worshipping Oghma.
GreenKnight 12-18-07, 03:49 PM	-This isn't directed at you, GK, I'm just wondering outloud. Why can't a demigod have worshippers? Where'd all the loyal Denierites go? Here's what Rich Baker had to say on the subject. I think Rauric's got the right answer here. I'm not real anxious to say that the Spellplague and its consequences made demigods unable to sponsor clerics or major faiths, nor do I really want to just retcon it and say that demigods never headed up significant faiths. But I'm pretty sure we want to keep the number of Faerun-wide faiths at a more reasonable number than 120+. So maybe the right thing to do is a "mild" retcon on this score, suggesting that some demigods in the pre-Spellplague years have occasionally enjoyed local worship, but when they were doing so it was likely an affiliated greater god or lesser god who was really garnering the worship. It's hard to worship the Red Knight without tipping your cap to Tempus, I'd imagine. That would probably work for most of the faiths we'd like to let slide into obscurity. And here's the post by Rauric that he was referencing. I do not think there will be any need for a retcon. There can still be multiple churches and those people will still be worshipping their god. It is a bit different in who gets that "faith juice" though. If a demigod is prayed to his/her "superior" would get all of the "faith juice" in return to protecting the demigod from the trauma of the Planes or some such thing. The Planesquake event will shake things up a bit. Only Greater powers will be able to hold things together so lesser and below powers will have to flock to the great one and probably give up a bit of their godhood for protection. Anyway that is how I figure it will go. A Retcon doesn't even have to be considered.
Lord Karsus 12-18-07, 04:01 PM	-Feh is all I have to say about that.
GreenKnight 12-18-07, 04:25 PM	Well, you did ask.
sfdragon 12-18-07, 06:08 PM	... well any chosen that survives the spell plague would likely go off to worship another deity of magic or one that they worship while mystra was their patron. Khelben went off to Arvandor, his father was half elf and both lived in mythdrannor so im sure he worship CL as well as mystra at the time. and Dove assuming she survives, likely worships either mielikki or chauntea on the side... and Storm, well she can die for all i care, but if she lives through it, she likely kisses the boot of Oghma now. Lady Veladorn, is a cleric she will likely survive the spellplague pressuming she doesnt die in some humiliating way in the LP. sylune is gone. alustrial and learal will likely die during the spell plague, both are wizards and powerful enough to be counted. the symbul.....that crazzy old wench...cant say, not foreseeable in the future. the 100 year thing hasnt been confirmed the netherese liches survived it once, they will do it again. Iouluam became an undead elderbrain, survived it once will do it again. that red lich from thay might survive, though Ssaz might be more insane now than anything else now the arcane brotherhood are dead(good riddance) haluraa is cleared out thay is cleared out sembia faced off with something during its civil unrest mulohaundi is likely gone under the way of tiamat. evermeet is likely gone
Alediran 12-18-07, 11:01 PM	... well any chosen that survives the spell plague would likely go off to worship another deity of magic or one that they worship while mystra was their patron. Khelben went off to Arvandor, his father was half elf and both lived in mythdrannor so im sure he worship CL as well as mystra at the time. and Dove assuming she survives, likely worships either mielikki or chauntea on the side... and Storm, well she can die for all i care, but if she lives through it, she likely kisses the boot of Oghma now. Lady Veladorn, is a cleric she will likely survive the spellplague pressuming she doesnt die in some humiliating way in the LP. sylune is gone. alustrial and learal will likely die during the spell plague, both are wizards and powerful enough to be counted. the symbul.....that crazzy old wench...cant say, not foreseeable in the future. the 100 year thing hasnt been confirmed the netherese liches survived it once, they will do it again. Iouluam became an undead elderbrain, survived it once will do it again. that red lich from thay might survive, though Ssaz might be more insane now than anything else now the arcane brotherhood are dead(good riddance) haluraa is cleared out thay is cleared out sembia faced off with something during its civil unrest mulohaundi is likely gone under the way of tiamat. evermeet is likely gone And all of that SUCKS!
sfdragon 12-19-07, 04:22 AM	yes, yes it does
Kenzuki 12-19-07, 08:10 AM	It's also not confirmed, so no it doesn't suck because it doesn't exist yet. You're all acting like Chicken Little here.
sir_mullich 12-19-07, 12:44 PM	Well, for a few month we can still enjoy 3.5, let's take our time to enjoy all the possibilities of 3.5 :)
Lord Karsus 12-19-07, 01:49 PM	It's also not confirmed, so no it doesn't suck because it doesn't exist yet. You're all acting like Chicken Little here. -Did you have to be on the Titanic to not like the fact that there were so few lifeboats on board? Nope. Do you have to drink Drain-O to know that it's not healthy for you? Nope. -One can criticise something, or not like it, or whatever, without experiencing it.
Kenzuki 12-19-07, 03:09 PM	Well that is true, but you never know. It could end up being a good thing in the long run, I'm sure there were alot of 3rd edition naysayers too, it worked out fine. What's the worst that could happen?
Lord Karsus 12-19-07, 03:35 PM	Well that is true, but you never know. It could end up being a good thing in the long run, I'm sure there were alot of 3rd edition naysayers too, it worked out fine. What's the worst that could happen? -Of course. But, based on what we know thus far, people have the right to form a negative opinion, should they choose to.
SirUrza 12-19-07, 07:03 PM	True true, but I'de assume it's impossible to be the Chosen of a dead deity right? So wouldn't they stop being Chosen? Which means they'de lose a large chunk of power and start aging! Maybe....? Or Elminster or someone else becomes the new god of Magic and maintains their status. :P
GothicDan 12-19-07, 07:50 PM	It could end up being a good thing in the long run, I'm sure there were alot of 3rd edition naysayers too, it worked out fine. Not according to many of the 3E naysayers.
Kenzuki 12-19-07, 10:18 PM	Not according to many of the 3E naysayers. Well then it's a good thing those naysayers can just do whatever they want with THEIR Realms then right?;)
Lord Karsus 12-20-07, 12:25 AM	Or Elminster or someone else becomes the new god of Magic and maintains their status. :P -G-d no. Please no. That'd just be...no. :yuck:
Stigger 12-20-07, 07:14 AM	Well then it's a good thing those naysayers can just do whatever they want with THEIR Realms then right?;) Except that a lot of the lore for 3e is still compatible with 2e... which by all appearances will not be the case with 4e. So pretty much most of the 4e stuff is likely to be utterly unuseable for someone who decides to stick to the 3e plotline, whether or not they choose to switch to 4e rules, or stick with 3e rules. 2e to 3e at least had some measure of forward compatibility in terms of storyline and such, while 3e to 4e offers no such consolation. You're pretty much screwed if you don't like the new Realms, even as far as the novels are concerned.
Kenzuki 12-20-07, 08:47 AM	Except that a lot of the lore for 3e is still compatible with 2e... which by all appearances will not be the case with 4e. So pretty much most of the 4e stuff is likely to be utterly unuseable for someone who decides to stick to the 3e plotline, whether or not they choose to switch to 4e rules, or stick with 3e rules. 2e to 3e at least had some measure of forward compatibility in terms of storyline and such, while 3e to 4e offers no such consolation. You're pretty much screwed if you don't like the new Realms, even as far as the novels are concerned. It will work, somehow....I doubt they will retcon everything, they aren't that stupid right?
Alediran 12-20-07, 08:53 AM	It will work, somehow....I doubt they will retcon everything, they aren't that stupid right? If they're trying to make New Coke you can't be THAT bright.
Kenzuki 12-20-07, 08:55 AM	If they're trying to make New Coke you can't be THAT bright. You didn't know New Coke sucked until you tried it either. Try it, THEn you can say if it sucks.
Stigger 12-20-07, 09:37 AM	It will work, somehow....I doubt they will retcon everything, they aren't that stupid right? Maybe. Maybe not. As to a company being stupid... WotC publishes the Realms now, TSR used to. TSR however went under for a reason... which is not to say that WotC will go under too, but being a business doesn't necessarily equate to not being stupid.
GothicDan 12-20-07, 10:10 AM	Well then it's a good thing those naysayers can just do whatever they want with THEIR Realms then right? Yeah, but it's bad if we want actually useful future Realms material.
MerrikCale 12-20-07, 10:54 AM	Yeah, but it's bad if we want actually useful future Realms material. Right. We can play any Realms we want for sure. But if we don't follow the 4E path, then we can't participate in future Realms products. I for one, don't want to be left behind.
sir_mullich 12-20-07, 02:24 PM	Right. We can play any Realms we want for sure. But if we don't follow the 4E path, then we can't participate in future Realms products. I for one, don't want to be left behind. I think i will play 3.5 for one more decade then go to 5 :D cause i started playing 3.5 only for 1 year and a half only :D
Green Elven Vampire 12-20-07, 02:44 PM	Except that a lot of the lore for 3e is still compatible with 2e... which by all appearances will not be the case with 4e. So pretty much most of the 4e stuff is likely to be utterly unuseable for someone who decides to stick to the 3e plotline, whether or not they choose to switch to 4e rules, or stick with 3e rules. 2e to 3e at least had some measure of forward compatibility in terms of storyline and such, while 3e to 4e offers no such consolation. You're pretty much screwed if you don't like the new Realms, even as far as the novels are concerned. That's my point as well. 4ED is changing the actual history of the deities! DM says "Ohh I'm sorry, your cleric of Sehanine Moonbow has actually been worshiping the human goddess Selune for the past 300 years... ohh I'm sorry, your entire race has been worshiping a human goddess for the past 30,000 years!"
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-20-07, 03:06 PM	It will work, somehow....I doubt they will retcon everything, they aren't that stupid right? Should we all answer that honestly? *grin*
Lord Karsus 12-20-07, 03:36 PM	You didn't know New Coke sucked until you tried it either. Try it, THEn you can say if it sucks. -If someone close to me told me it sucked, I wouldn't bother trying it, taking their word. Most people who I consider "close to me" have very similar tastes, literally, so...
Green Elven Vampire 12-20-07, 04:18 PM	Why waste the money to buy it and try it, when you can go to Borders and just read it to know how much it'll suck *edited profanity*! And to answer a question above... Yes, they ARE stupid enough to retcon most everything. What do you think they are doing to the FR demi-human deities??
Stigger 12-20-07, 06:05 PM	Feh, its not a retcon, its always been that way, you just had some reception problems with the magic television. ;) :D
Kenzuki 12-20-07, 08:40 PM	I'm sorry...I'm just trying to sound positive. That and the Wizo's are watching....always watching....
Lord Karsus 12-20-07, 09:15 PM	I'm sorry...I'm just trying to sound positive. That and the Wizo's are watching....always watching.... -They're a neutral party in all this, don't worry.
Hanali-in-Love 12-26-07, 02:06 AM	I thought I read somewhere on these boards that Laeral Silverhand Arunsun dies somehow for 4E?
Lord Karsus 12-26-07, 02:19 AM	I thought I read somewhere on these boards that Laeral Silverhand Arunsun dies somehow for 4E? -Never heard that one before. I wouldn't lend it much creedence. The only thing that that rumor could possibly tie into would be the Spellplague.
Redrake 12-26-07, 02:23 AM	Unconfirmed rumor. As far as we know all the mages except for Elminster might be extinct once 4E is released. I have my doubts on wether Storm and Dove are going to be alive, but there's also the 100 years jump to be considered. Maybe with Spellplague, their Mystra essence also gets removed, so they become mortal humans.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-26-07, 11:03 AM	I thought I read somewhere on these boards that Laeral Silverhand Arunsun dies somehow for 4E? Don't believe everything you read.:) I'm keeping tabs on 4E information, and I haven't heard anything of the sort.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-26-07, 11:04 AM	Unconfirmed rumor. As far as we know all the mages except for Elminster might be extinct once 4E is released. I have my doubts on wether Storm and Dove are going to be alive, but there's also the 100 years jump to be considered. And the "100 year jump" isn't a confirmed fact either. It's ultimately a prediction that has taken on a life of it's own and become "fact" for a lot of people.
Stigger 12-26-07, 12:13 PM	Wouldn't call it a 'fact' so much as a likelihood if this new Realms is going to make much sense. Having said that, I'm not all that certain it is going to be 100 years as I can't say I have much faith that sense played all that much of a part in the New Realms.
Wyre 12-26-07, 08:39 PM	Kill 'em all, let the gods sort 'em out. :devil:
Storm_Silverhand 12-26-07, 08:51 PM	Heya, Kill 'em all, let the gods sort 'em out. :devil: Trouble with that is not all the gods will still be alive... Ugh, what a horrid thought... With Mystra dead, what would happen to the souls of her faithful? (I'm thinking in the context of whichever Chosen die, but it really applies to all of her faithful...)
Lord Karsus 12-27-07, 12:18 AM	Ugh, what a horrid thought... With Mystra dead, what would happen to the souls of her faithful? (I'm thinking in the context of whichever Chosen die, but it really applies to all of her faithful...) -I bet the designers don't have an answer either. That's a good question to ask Rich Baker when he gets back, and starts answering questions again. -I can think of three different solutions. The first is that they simply are picked up by whatever deity "takes over" for Mystra. The second is that they go to the Wall in Kelemvor's Domain, or something to that effect. The third is fairly interesting, but hinges on the mechanics that are 'ported over to 4e. Anyway, since the idea of Incarnum, as I know it, is that it is the "stuff of spirits and souls", Mystra's faithful die, and their souls support/infuse Incarnum. That, of course, hinges on the fact that WotC will either import Incarnum into 4e, or ignore it.
Aluroon 12-27-07, 02:11 AM	This is almost as bad as the upcoming Spiderman Recon where they are erasing the last 25 years of his history, ressurecting the enemies he killed, killing his wifes unborn child (and causing their marriage never to have happened), and taking all the powers he's gained in the last 25 years. Sigh, its as if Marvel and Wizards of the Coast are setting out together to destroy everything I once held dear. On a side note, where is the 100 year jump info coming from? I could have sworn the original reports were for a 10 year jump...
Stigger 12-27-07, 04:00 AM	Originally? I think it comes from the Orc King prologue, which is set 100 years in the future, or something like that. Either way though, we don't actually know what sort of timejump is going to be involved, only that there will be one.
GreenKnight 12-27-07, 08:07 AM	On a side note, where is the 100 year jump info coming from? I could have sworn the original reports were for a 10 year jump... It comes from The Orc King (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/frnovel/959867200). Check out a sample chapter HERE (http://www.wizards.com/books/downloads/products_frnovel_959867200.zip) to get an idea of why people think the timeline will be advanced 100 years.
Aluroon 12-27-07, 11:32 AM	It comes from The Orc King (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/frnovel/959867200). Check out a sample chapter HERE (http://www.wizards.com/books/downloads/products_frnovel_959867200.zip) to get an idea of why people think the timeline will be advanced 100 years. I did, I read that some time ago, but I still don't understand why some people think that will be the jump. Didn't they freaking announce a 10 year skip?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-27-07, 11:54 AM	I did, I read that some time ago, but I still don't understand why some people think that will be the jump. Didn't they freaking announce a 10 year skip? Not exactly. All they've said so far is that the Spellplague will begin in 10 years (1385 DR). They never said that's when the FRCG will be set.
Alkasyn 12-27-07, 11:59 AM	This is almost as bad as the upcoming Spiderman Recon where they are erasing the last 25 years of his history, ressurecting the enemies he killed, killing his wifes unborn child (and causing their marriage never to have happened), and taking all the powers he's gained in the last 25 years. Sigh, its as if Marvel and Wizards of the Coast are setting out together to destroy everything I once held dear. On a side note, where is the 100 year jump info coming from? I could have sworn the original reports were for a 10 year jump... That policy is lately popular among other companies, too. It helps to gain new fans, as the new editions aren't loaded with so much lore, but the problem is that the old fans don't want to get the same old stories in a new wrapup. I personally see the reasoning behind this,, and while I don't like it when it comes to the Realms, I feel that a brand new Spidey series is not out of place - as long as they keep the most important old ones, though.
Lord Karsus 12-27-07, 02:16 PM	This is almost as bad as the upcoming Spiderman Recon where they are erasing the last 25 years of his history, ressurecting the enemies he killed, killing his wifes unborn child (and causing their marriage never to have happened), and taking all the powers he's gained in the last 25 years. -Wait, what? I don't follow Spider-man, but, could you fill me in a little. Last I saw of him, he was unmasking himself in Civil War, and was going to be wearing his "black costume" again, to promote the movie, and because he was feeling all angry. Oh, and his marriage with MJ was on the rocks (again). Not exactly. All they've said so far is that the Spellplague will begin in 10 years (1385 DR). They never said that's when the FRCG will be set. -Correct. And, the 4e FRCS takes place during a time after the Spellplague "came, saw and conquered", meaning that it was an event of the past. Given that there would need to be a little bit of time between when magic when phooey, and when new magical traditions came into being, 100 is as decent guess as any.
Hans_Kelsen 12-27-07, 06:42 PM	How the heck do you kill Halaster?I´m not into Epic level, but it seems quite hard...anyway, if Ilmater got ******, will his clerics take the Plea of Rest and kick every Tyr priest from Icewind Dale to the plains of the Shaar? On a side note, almost all Zhentarin NPC´s are gone, with the Daggerdale people...
Stigger 12-27-07, 06:54 PM	Thought I heard somewhere that Manshoon and Fzoul both get imported into 4e... not completely sure about that one though. None of the other ones really matter for the Zhents beyond those two if its true though.
GreenKnight 12-27-07, 07:07 PM	Thought I heard somewhere that Manshoon and Fzoul both get imported into 4e... not completely sure about that one though. None of the other ones really matter for the Zhents beyond those two if its true though. Rich Baker said that Fzoul was still around. Don't know about Manshoon, though. Anyway, here's the quote. Fzoul remains, but in something of a new role; can't say more than that for now.
Stigger 12-27-07, 07:21 PM	Fzoul as the Towel-boy for Bane's new divine Realm... I can just see it now... wouldn't surprise me with that mustache of his. :D
Hanali-in-Love 12-27-07, 08:52 PM	Fzoul as the Towel-boy for Bane's new divine Realm... I can just see it now... wouldn't surprise me with that mustache of his. :D And I would imagine that Zemm and Ashemmi will become Moonstars.
Lord Karsus 12-27-07, 11:19 PM	How the heck do you kill Halaster? -Halaster did it to himself. Accidentally. -Yeah, I know it's a little hard to swallow, but it's not that bad. I just wish it was more than a little "footnote", or whatever. A stand-alone novel would have been nice. Ironically, one of the current FR Novel series' is The Dungeons series. And, what is one of the most iconic dungeons in the Realms? Undermountain. But, alas, nothing...:(
Dark Wizard 12-27-07, 11:23 PM	Opportunity missed, big time. It could have been the Blackstaff of the series. Maybe they'll do a series of books on the deaths of iconic characters, though that might be a bit depressing. Readers can only take so much of seeing main characters die (yes, even ones they don't like, still no doubt some will get off on it).
Lord Karsus 12-27-07, 11:51 PM	Opportunity missed, big time. It could have been the Blackstaff of the series. -I think Stardeep is the Blackstaff of The Dungeons series (the big, kickass book, that is). An Undermountain novel would have been a great way to tie the events in the Return to Undermountain adventure into the Realms, and give Halaster's death a little more than a little blurp in AGHotR to certify his death in the Realms.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-28-07, 10:37 AM	And I would imagine that Zemm and Ashemmi will become Moonstars. Assuming the Moonstars are even still around. Consider that Rich Baker has spoken of mending the relationship between the Harpers and the Moonstars (whether that's a good thing or not, you decide).
GreenKnight 12-28-07, 10:38 AM	Opportunity missed, big time. It could have been the Blackstaff of the series. I'm still irritated that they haven't put out a book on Bane's return. Didn't Greenwood express interest in writing such a book?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-28-07, 10:38 AM	-Halaster did it to himself. Accidentally. -Yeah, I know it's a little hard to swallow, but it's not that bad. I just wish it was more than a little "footnote", or whatever. A stand-alone novel would have been nice. Ironically, one of the current FR Novel series' is The Dungeons series. And, what is one of the most iconic dungeons in the Realms? Undermountain. But, alas, nothing...:( To be fair, though, I think the point of those series of "stand-alones" is to showcase new places in the Realms that no one has ever heard of.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-28-07, 10:39 AM	-I think Stardeep is the Blackstaff of The Dungeons series (the big, kickass book, that is). It's actually dragging a little for me.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-28-07, 10:41 AM	I'm still irritated that they haven't put out a book on Bane's return. Didn't Greenwood express interest in writing such a book? Maybe (don't recall reading that), but I don't know if he's itching to write about Bane's Return any more than he is interested in writing about hundreds of other plots, events, and characters.:)
GreenKnight 12-28-07, 10:42 AM	Well, whatever the case, I'm certain there're more then a few good Realms authors who'd love to write that story if they were given the opportunity.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-28-07, 11:22 AM	Well, whatever the case, I'm certain there're more then a few good Realms authors who'd love to write that story if they were given the opportunity. Agreed.
Lord Karsus 12-28-07, 12:37 PM	To be fair, though, I think the point of those series of "stand-alones" is to showcase new places in the Realms that no one has ever heard of. -True, but Undermountain is *THE* quintessential dungeon! Come on! :) It's actually dragging a little for me. -I meant that as in it's the book that's supposed to make the "big splash" in the series- like Blackstaff did in the Wizards Series. None of the other Wizards Series novels were of that callibre.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-28-07, 03:30 PM	-True, but Undermountain is *THE* quintessential dungeon! Come on! :) I know...:) -I meant that as in it's the book that's supposed to make the "big splash" in the series- like Blackstaff did in the Wizards Series. None of the other Wizards Series novels were of that callibre. In that sense, you're probably right, thanks to the novel being authored by Bruce Cordell (that's my opinion anyway) and all the mentions of "Abeir" as a seperate entity and aboleth invasions. But as a reader, I can't say I've eaten it up like I did with Blackstaff, which was both a step forward lore-wise AND a fun read. Stardeep is not a bad novel at all, but not a "couldn't put it down" book for me either.
MerrikCale 12-28-07, 11:22 PM	--I meant that as in it's the book that's supposed to make the "big splash" in the series- like Blackstaff did in the Wizards Series. None of the other Wizards Series novels were of that callibre. I rather liked Bloodwalk
Green Elven Vampire 12-29-07, 12:06 AM	I think Depths of Madness was the best of the Dungeons series. Finally, a novel where the main character is a follower of Erevan Ilesere!!
Lord Karsus 12-29-07, 01:39 AM	But as a reader, I can't say I've eaten it up like I did with Blackstaff, which was both a step forward lore-wise AND a fun read. Stardeep is not a bad novel at all, but not a "couldn't put it down" book for me either. -That about sums it up. I rather liked Bloodwalk -I actually hated that one. But, that aside, Bloodwalk didn't make a splash like Blackstaff did.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-30-07, 05:28 PM	I rather liked Bloodwalk And that novel was the novel in the Wizards series I liked the least, no offense to the author (who's a pretty nice guy).
Lord Karsus 12-31-07, 12:40 AM	-To me, it seemed very forced. As if the square block had to be hammered into the round peg a little, to make it fit.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-31-07, 10:37 AM	It's been a while since I read that book, but I think my main complaint was the sluggish pace of the plot.
MerrikCale 12-31-07, 02:52 PM	I know I'm in the minority with Bloodwalk, but what can you do. I liked Blackstaff a lot as well. I rather enjoyed the Frostfell one too
Lord Karsus 12-31-07, 04:27 PM	-Frostfell was good. Very enlightening.
Dark Wizard 12-31-07, 04:51 PM	-Frostfell was good. Very enlightening. I agree, I finished the book in a day and I'm a slow reader.
XHereticX 01-02-08, 08:46 AM	I think Depths of Madness was the best of the Dungeons series. Finally, a novel where the main character is a follower of Erevan Ilesere!! Yeah, I liked it too, except they portrayed the warlock of Asmodeus as too brutish and simplistic. Once again, just like in Elminster in Hell, they turned the devils into demons (even though Davoren was a half-demon). Wahtever, as bad as things seem, I think that everyone is overreacting to the whole situation. I mean, old fans still make up a large majority of FR consumers so I would assume that they haven't taken us COMPLETLY out of mind.
Lord Karsus 01-02-08, 08:50 AM	I mean, old fans still make up a large majority of FR consumers so I would assume that they haven't taken us COMPLETLY out of mind. -Have you read any of the designers' journals? Want/Need links?
XHereticX 01-02-08, 08:56 AM	-Have you read any of the designers' journals? Want/Need links? Yes please, I am a little out of date right now.
Lord Karsus 01-02-08, 09:13 AM	Yes please, I am a little out of date right now. -Here's a couple: Chris Perkins: http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14049296&postcount=16 (This is the most damning one) Rich Baker: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071005 Chris Sims: http://www.gleemax.com/Comms/Pages/Communities/BlogPost.aspx?blogpostid=11334&pagemode=2&blogid=5122 Gamer Zero/Chris Perkins: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=grz
XHereticX 01-02-08, 09:18 AM	Huh, the Chris Perkins one was not as damning as you said it would be. In fact, he actually made me want to stick to the Realms right now.
Lord Karsus 01-02-08, 09:20 AM	Huh, the Chris Perkins one was not as damning as you said it would be. In fact, he actually made me want to stick to the Realms right now. -Did you read the accompanying discussion, where we disect and analyze what he is saying?
XHereticX 01-02-08, 09:21 AM	-Did you read the accompanying discussion, where we disect and analyze what he is saying? No, link for that plz. And you guys are probably just being a little hystaric anyway.
Stigger 01-02-08, 09:22 AM	Not really... the interview with GamerZero was the clincher for him in my book, when he used the term 'nuke' in reference to FR NPCs.
XHereticX 01-02-08, 09:25 AM	Not really... the interview with GamerZero was the clincher for him in my book, when he used the term 'nuke' in reference to FR NPCs. ahh, that link was one that didn't work.
Lord Karsus 01-02-08, 09:30 AM	No, link for that plz. -Well, can;t find it. It looks like that thread has been erased in GamerZer0's tyrannical rule. Here are two other related threads, though: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=962302 http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=950270 ahh, that link was one that didn't work. -Yeah, I had trouble loading it, too. I could only listen to it, not see it.
XHereticX 01-02-08, 09:33 AM	Well, I'm gonna be getting AGHOTR for my birthday anyway, plus I'm planning to run to to my local barnes and nobles and read The Orc King, which will clear things up.
Lord Karsus 01-02-08, 09:38 AM	Well, I'm gonna be getting AGHOTR for my birthday anyway, plus I'm planning to run to to my local barnes and nobles and read The Orc King, which will clear things up. -Or, create more questions...;)
XHereticX 01-02-08, 10:00 AM	-Or, create more questions...;) But then at least I will have a stronger foundation from which to work from.
Lord Karsus 01-02-08, 10:01 AM	-Oh, of course. Definitley buy the book. It is a 'must have', for multiple reasons.
TheBlackMephisto 01-02-08, 03:27 PM	I would think that Chris and his crew already have too much invested in 4th by now. So anything we do or say is not going to have any effect. I for one am just glad that this great, and beautiful thing started by Gary Gigax and Dave Arneson is still around. Even if Hasbro does own it. :rolleyes: It just means we all get to learn more ways of playing, and besides guys, if you don't like 4th, stick to 3rd. I can see your points, but ultimatley, things are way off the ground floor now, and no mass concensus of opinion is going to change matters now. It's too late...;) I for one wish like hell that I had a job at WotC. I would die a happy man. (are you listening Mr. Perkins?)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-02-08, 07:45 PM	It just means we all get to learn more ways of playing, and besides guys, if you don't like 4th, stick to 3rd. I can see your points, but ultimatley, things are way off the ground floor now, and no mass concensus of opinion is going to change matters now. It's too late...;) Please note that many posters here aren't upset about the arrival for 4E per se, but rather the changes that will be affecting the Realms setting. There is a distinct difference.
XHereticX 01-02-08, 07:50 PM	Please note that many posters here aren't upset about the arrival for 4E per se, but rather the changes that will be affecting the Realms setting. There is a distinct difference. Exactly, so far what I know about the 4E system, cosmology, and feel makes it seem VASTLY superior to 3e.
Stigger 01-02-08, 07:57 PM	Rules, yeah, 4e looks like a pretty superior system to me. Cosmology and fluff-wise, I'd wouldn't pay a penny for it.
XHereticX 01-02-08, 08:12 PM	Rules, yeah, 4e looks like a pretty superior system to me. Cosmology and fluff-wise, I'd wouldn't pay a penny for it. I don't know, the new cosmology puts a new spin on the planes without necessarily destroying old material. To make things better, they are giving new life to previously boring and unused planes like the Inner Planes and the Plane of Shadow. As for fluff...we'll just have to wait and see.
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 01-02-08, 08:45 PM	All have died, they have bombed Toril from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Kenzuki 01-02-08, 08:55 PM	They used the Death Star....all this time we thought Selune was a moon...
XHereticX 01-02-08, 09:07 PM	They used the Death Star....all this time we thought Selune was a moon... So all this time we have been worshipping Darth Vader?
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 01-02-08, 09:15 PM	Not Darth Vader. The Emperor, Darth Sidious. But why SW is in the Realms is anyone's guess.
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 01-02-08, 09:29 PM	Could someone detail how they (the aforementioned characters) died/met their demise? Thanks.
sfdragon 01-02-08, 09:55 PM	all I know is that Blackstaff sacrificed himself to bring a lost elven city out of a time loop. and S. Darkhope died by party gutting her and she falls to be impaled on a tree, and whats his name wont ressurect her, stating that she was responsible for the failure. Helm was killed by Tyr the duergar gods were killed by the dwarven pantheon in a battle and two of the dwarven pantheon were slain in the battle. that is all i know
Lord Karsus 01-03-08, 12:17 AM	Could someone detail how they (the aforementioned characters) died/met their demise? Thanks. -Which characters?
Stigger 01-03-08, 01:17 AM	I don't know, the new cosmology puts a new spin on the planes without necessarily destroying old material. To make things better, they are giving new life to previously boring and unused planes like the Inner Planes and the Plane of Shadow. As for fluff...we'll just have to wait and see. I used that stuff quite a bit. Planescape FTW. :P And yes, which characters indeed? That didn't parse for some reason...
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 01-03-08, 03:58 AM	Thanks, sfdragon. The both of you are going blind I see. Lay off it, people! The cats don't deserve death! I was refering to these characters. Halaster Scyllua Darkhope Khelben Arunsun Laeral Silverhand Bruenor Battlehammer Cadderly Bonaduce Sylune Silverhand Apparently all gnomes and their gods Off the top of my head, that's it for now.
sfdragon 01-03-08, 04:28 AM	laeral arunson is a rumor cadderly and his wife's death are rumored because of the destruction of faerun's greatest cathedral bruenor's death is also rumor. the loss of a dear dear friend in the prologue of the orc king, can point to two npcs, either alustriel or catti-brie. the gnomes have not been killed nor have their gods, they were only removed from the phb to the mm. Halaster died in an attempt to halt the spell plague and he failed miserably and died in the attempt. edit: sylune was technically already dead, she was put to rest again, when her husband's staff was returned to his coffin, she left faerun after bestowing a kiss to each of the party members who were in shadowdale kicking zhent grunts and stuff
Stigger 01-03-08, 04:57 AM	Cats always deserve death... particularly if they're anywhere near me indoors. ;) :D
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-03-08, 09:23 AM	Cats always deserve death... particularly if they're anywhere near me indoors. ;) :D No...:weep: For the last time...it has NOT been confirmed that Laeral Silverhand, Bruenor Battlehammer, Cadderly Bonaduce and "all the gnomes" are going to die. That's all just (very wild) speculation. Gnomes aren't going to be kicked out of the setting, they just won't be in the first PHB. Rich Baker has confirmed this.
Rauric 01-03-08, 09:41 AM	Yep, until the book comes out we don't know jack. Well we know a little, but not the whole thing.
Lord Karsus 01-03-08, 11:44 AM	I was refering to these characters. -Oh. I was looking for something that you posted, as was Stigger, I'm sure... Halaster: Was killed in the Core adventure Return to Undermountain. This was confirmed in AGHotR. Halaster apparently made a mistake in some arcane rituals while preparing for the Spellplague/Invasion of the Elder Evils, and shattered his soul into thousands of fragments. Scyllua Darkhope: Was killed sometime during the three-part 'Super Adventures'. Khelben Arunsun: Was killed in the novel Blackstaff, fufilling his duty to the Seldarine and to Mystra by raising the fallen City of Hope in the High Moor. An apprentice, Tsarra, inherited many of his memories, as well as his title, and his tower. Laeral Silverhand: Fate Unknown. Is currently residing in the City of Hope. Bruenor Battlehammer: Fate Unknown. Cadderly Bonaduce: Fate Unknown. Presumably, something bad will befall him, as it is speculated that the Spirit Soaring is the cathedral alluded to in the prologue of The Orc King. Sylune Silverhand: Was 'removed' sometime during the three-part 'Super Adventures'. Apparently, she finds true rest, and leaves Shadowdale. Apparently all gnomes and their gods: Gnomes are not going anywhere...They will continue to exist in the Realms, in a diminshed fashion until they appear as a player race in a PHB.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-03-08, 03:15 PM	What's silly is that some of these rumors don't even any real basis in fact--for example, why the heck did people start thinking Laeral Silverhand is slated to bite the dust? That isn't even vaguely alluded to in any product, or by the designers! I know the designers have said Chosen of Mystra will be removed, but that doesn't need to mean "death", and either way, why single out Laeral?
Lord Karsus 01-03-08, 03:27 PM	That isn't even vaguely alluded to in any product, or by the designers! I know the designers have said Chosen of Mystra will be removed... -That's precisely why. When you are already tense, every little thing spells doom. Look at what happened after 9/11. Whenever anyone heard an airplane, there was a vague sense of dread. Same here. Whenever someone hears something vague, they assume the worst.
Stigger 01-03-08, 04:16 PM	The human brain does seem pretty good at filling in blanks with the worst of its fears...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-03-08, 07:51 PM	Yeah, that may be what happened. When people are in "panic mode", you can't really apply logic.
glitter 01-04-08, 06:57 AM	Halaster: Was killed in the Core adventure Return to Undermountain. This was confirmed in AGHotR. Halaster apparently made a mistake in some arcane rituals while preparing for the Spellplague/Invasion of the Elder Evils, and shattered his soul into thousands of fragments. Just to say that the ritual of Halaster was flawed by the liches from the Twisted Runes. Anyway, that story of fragments of his soul is the kind of thing that let an open door for the future.
Stigger 01-04-08, 07:01 AM	It conceivably could, but given the 'nuking' of Realms high-level NPCs, I'm pretty sure its his permanent end as far as the 'official story' goes. Not that its happening in my own games, but that's not really the point.
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 01-04-08, 08:13 AM	-Oh. I was looking for something that you posted, as was Stigger, I'm sure... Wait...what? Seriously, what? Why would I ask a question concerning what I wrote? And why would I even consider asking a rhetorical question like that in the context? It's totally illogical. :/ Thanks for the explanations! :) What about other Faerunian personalities?
Lord Karsus 01-04-08, 11:08 AM	Wait...what? Seriously, what? Why would I ask a question concerning what I wrote? And why would I even consider asking a rhetorical question like that in the context? It's totally illogical. :/ -What rhetorical question? Pay more attention. I was talking about the fates of the characters I listed above. You asked the question, and I answered your query. One would think you'd be a little more grateful, answering your question and all. What about other Faerunian personalities? -Such as?
Warning 01-04-08, 12:32 PM	Well we do know that Drizzt and Elminster survive.:rolleyes: And Cale! And any other character that has his/her own trilogy. But yeah, when I saw this, that made me laugh. Those two will never die off. I think I read RAS novels for some of the character development and battle scenes, and not for the story anymore, it's always his characters comming back from the abyss or destorying whatever enemy may come into their path, the purpose of his predictable novels are how it happened that makes it intresting. I really can't wait for the day to see if Drizzt dies off and fanboys flip. It will be like doomsday killing superman (All though superman died like 3 times now? And doesnt stay dead)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-04-08, 12:50 PM	And Cale! And any other character that has his/her own trilogy. Guess you never read Shandril's Saga.
Warning 01-04-08, 12:57 PM	Guess you never read Shandril's Saga. Can't say that I have. But I assume it's a good guy/girl dying at the end?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-04-08, 01:24 PM	Can't say that I have. But I assume it's a good guy/girl dying at the end? Yes, the good-hearted protagonist dies at the end.
Warning 01-04-08, 01:29 PM	(Gets on his knees with his fist clenched raised in the air staring at the darkened sky) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-04-08, 01:43 PM	:P
Lord Karsus 01-04-08, 01:52 PM	(All though superman died like 3 times now? And doesnt stay dead) -More than that, I think. They might have been Robot Supermans, though...
Warning 01-04-08, 02:18 PM	Yeah dude, DC comics suck. Marvel is great because they actually let characters die. Instead of having these Gods like superman that can do nearly anything, you have a super powered being that is exceptional at 1 thing. Captain America died by a sniper, not Iron man. And there are not suppose to be any new sessions of him, because the want their world to have a realistic view. Batman would fit nicely into Marvel, he's this mortal that has to deal with these Gods all day. Batman>Superman http://youtube.com/watch?v=uklSyanOQfY
Lord Karsus 01-04-08, 02:36 PM	Yeah dude, DC comics suck. Marvel is great because they actually let characters die. -While DC does indeed suck, Marvel is just as bad, if not worse, with "bringing back people from the dead": Jean Grey, Professor Xavier, Thor, Magneto, Bucky/Winter Soldier, Apocalypse, Hawkeye,... Captain America died by a sniper, not Iron man. -That was one of the most poignant things I can ever remember reading in comic books, period. It certainly was the highlight of Civil War, and was very ironic, when you think about it. The entire premise between Civil War was that the public needed to be protected from Super Heroes. In the end, Cap was killed by a member of the 'public' that needed to be protected from people like him. Batman would fit nicely into Marvel, he's this mortal that has to deal with these Gods all day. -Batman is very much a Daredevil/Spiderman kind of hero. Batman>Superman http://youtube.com/watch?v=uklSyanOQfY -It's bit more difficult than just that. Batman vs. Superman is a lot like the debate with the SEALs and the Drow. If Batman had access to all of his equipment (including the Kryptonite that he has), then he would likely win. If he did not, then Superman would win quite easily.
Warning 01-04-08, 02:41 PM	-That was one of the most poignant things I can ever remember reading in comic books, period. It certainly was the highlight of Civil War, and was very ironic, when you think about it. The entire premise between Civil War was that the public needed to be protected from Super Heroes. In the end, Cap was killed by a member of the 'public' that needed to be protected from people like him. Well, they were trying to make a point about the patriot act. At leaste that's what the writters had said.
Lord Karsus 01-04-08, 02:49 PM	-Anyone who can't see the obvious political undertones is, to put it nicely, extremely dense.
MerrikCale 01-04-08, 09:19 PM	That was one of the most poignant things I can ever remember reading in comic books, period. It certainly was the highlight of Civil War, and was very ironic, which is why its too bad you know they will bring back Steve Rogers at some point. There is used to be a rule at Marvel. Ben Parker and Bucky stay dead. well.....
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 01-05-08, 08:28 AM	-What rhetorical question? Pay more attention. I was talking about the fates of the characters I listed above. You asked the question, and I answered your query. One would think you'd be a little more grateful, answering your question and all. I am grateful. Thanks. Consider what you and Stigger were asking, why would I even ask that if it was about something I, myself, posted? And why would I even consider asking a rhetorical in the same vein? Why I would ask myself a question in the context? It's illogical, so who needs to pay more attention? You or I? But I guess I should have been more specific. -Such as? Any other changes to other established Realms personalities?
WizO_Kayn 01-05-08, 08:57 AM	So who has died to make way for 4ed is the topic. Read it again, check your posts. If your post doesnt answer to this topic, you need to rethink posting it. Being off topic repeatedly is considered disruption. Disrupting a thread is against the COC. Breaking the COC gets you official warnings. Too many warnings and you lose your SN. ugh... no one wants that. We want you here, but we want you abiding by the COC. Please, get back on topic. : ) Thanks WizO Kayn
Lord Karsus 01-05-08, 12:19 PM	which is why its too bad you know they will bring back Steve Rogers at some point. -Unfortunatley. I't be nice to see A Captain America, as in someone worthy donning the suit and shield, in memory of Steve, perhaps, but not THE Captain America, Steve Rogers. There is used to be a rule at Marvel. Ben Parker and Bucky stay dead. well..... -Not anymore... Any other changes to other established Realms personalities? -No, I know that. I mean, any specific personalities you want to muse about? Read it again, check your posts. If your post doesnt answer to this topic, you need to rethink posting it. Being off topic repeatedly is considered disruption. Disrupting a thread is against the COC. Breaking the COC gets you official warnings. Too many warnings and you lose your SN. ugh... no one wants that. -Is that the new WotC policy? Threats? A simple and polite, “Get back on topic”, like in the old days, works all the same. We all like each other- for the most part- and like side commentary. That's how conversation works- tangents.
XHereticX 01-05-08, 08:01 PM	Well, I am glad you folks are just reaffirming the reasons I have no faith in American comics.:)
Warning 01-05-08, 08:14 PM	Well, I am glad you folks are just reaffirming the reasons I have no faith in American comics.:) Rofl, and what do you read? Manga?...lol good times good times
XHereticX 01-05-08, 08:15 PM	Rofl, and what do you read? Manga?...lol good times good times Not a big comic fan in general, and yes I do read Manga sometimes. I am a far bigger fan of anime though.
Lord Karsus 01-06-08, 12:23 AM	-Meh, you guys get back on topic before you get banned, too...
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 01-06-08, 12:58 AM	-No, I know that. I mean, any specific personalities you want to muse about? Hmm, I haven't been that up-to-date with Faerunian lore. What would you deem as a good start? Catti-brie has apparently taken up the wizard robes...what's up with that? -Is that the new WotC policy? Threats? A simple and polite, “Get back on topic”, like in the old days, works all the same. We all like each other- for the most part- and like side commentary. That's how conversation works- tangents. She does make a good point however, and at least listen to/heed (the) words of wisdom. Consider the forum you're on, consider the thread you're posting in/on. Consider if tangential posts are really relevant. If not, should I post off-topic material and how would it help the discussion at hand, etc. Tangential posts are well and good and all, but really they're served better in IMs and PMs or on/in the appropriate forums, ie the Rec Room.
Lord Karsus 01-06-08, 01:05 AM	Hmm, I haven't been that up-to-date with Faerunian lore. What would you deem as a good start? Catti-brie has apparently taken up the wizard robes...what's up with that? -That's news to me. :thinks:
XHereticX 01-06-08, 01:09 AM	Catti-brie has apparently taken up the wizard robes...what's up with that? . :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: "hides"
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 01-06-08, 01:09 AM	-That's news to me. :thinks: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: "hides" Hmm, a lot of people have been saying it. Perhaps it's because of what in happens/transpires in the latest RAS novel?
Lord Karsus 01-06-08, 01:18 AM	Hmm, a lot of people have been saying it. Perhaps it's because of what in happens/transpires in the latest RAS novel? -Could be. I don't buy hardcover FR novels, so I haven't read The Orc King yet.
XHereticX 01-06-08, 01:22 AM	Ok, I've only read like 30 pages of that book so far so please don't spoil it for me.
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 01-06-08, 01:34 AM	-Could be. I don't buy hardcover FR novels, so I haven't read The Orc King yet. Ah, thanks though. Ok, I've only read like 30 pages of that book so far so please don't spoil it for me. Yeah, this thread is really (chockablock; Aussie slang) full of spoilers though, so you may want to be careful.
Lord Karsus 01-06-08, 01:38 AM	-Well, if she theoretically does persue said path, things don't necessarily look good for her- at least, her progression learning said skill- due to the existence of a specific event looming on the horizon.
sfdragon 01-06-08, 02:06 AM	not to spoil it, but she was to injured to remain in the front line of battle.(this was one of the last of the hunters blades books. so lustra asked her if she thought about it. so yeah she took up the robes.
Ryltar Swordsong 01-06-08, 03:27 AM	not to spoil it Not to spoil it? That's exactly what you just did. Throw some spoiler tags around that please ( check the Forum FAQ if you don't know how).
Dzwood 01-06-08, 11:03 AM	So who do we know survives for sure? El, Dritz, and probably Cale right? Any one else?
Lord Karsus 01-06-08, 11:06 AM	So who do we know survives for sure? El, Dritz, and probably Cale right? Any one else? -We know for a fact that Elminster and Drizzt survive, in varying forms. After that, though, literally anyone is on the potential list.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 01-06-08, 01:25 PM	-We know for a fact that Elminster and Drizzt survive, in varying forms. After that, though, literally anyone is on the potential list. I think is pretty sure Cale will survive the whole thing, his hype is getting bigger than Drizzt's (at least in my nerd community ;) Helping with "Dead and back list": Cyclops, Jolt, Dusk, Atlas, Citizen V (like five times), Baron Zemo(again like five times), Green Goblin,Spider-Man, Aunt May, The Mandarin, Wonder Man, Vemon, Gwen Stacy, Blink, Bucky2/nomad/Scourge, Mourlin, Ezequiel, Fixer/Techno,Mimic,Colosus, Onslaught and that's from the top of my head... Captain America was killed By Agent 13(Her name excapes me right now).. And Cap will be back since Steve Rogers told Iron Man "whatever happens the spirit of America must go on (and the story is REALLY making it look that it will be Winter Soldier
MarkusTay63 01-06-08, 01:32 PM	In 5e, Cale pwns Drizzt and takes his stuff!!! :dancin:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-06-08, 04:06 PM	Hmm, a lot of people have been saying it. Perhaps it's because of what in happens/transpires in the latest RAS novel? Sorta kinda. Since Catti-brie has been crippled from having a boulder thrown at her in the last Hunter's Blades novel (good on RAS for not having his characters always be invincible, btw), she can't walk well anymore and her days of being a warrior are presumably over. Alustriel has suggested she take up the study of magic. All that being said, however, the only spells she's actually cast so far have come from magical items like a ring and a wand.
Storm_Silverhand 01-06-08, 05:03 PM	Heya, Sorta kinda. Since Catti-brie has been crippled from having a boulder thrown at her in the last Hunter's Blades novel (good on RAS for not having his characters always be invincible, btw), she can't walk well anymore and her days of being a warrior are presumably over. Alustriel has suggested she take up the study of magic. All that being said, however, the only spells she's actually cast so far have come from magical items like a ring and a wand. The shape of things to come, it seems, for spellcasters. Yeah, I know it's already been spoiled.
Warning 01-06-08, 05:07 PM	I think is pretty sure Cale will survive the whole thing, his hype is getting bigger than Drizzt's (at least in my nerd community ;) Cale is Ilbith. You speak in blastphemy.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 01-06-08, 05:10 PM	I don't care much for him (or your opinion about him) either way. In MY group of friend (I know is a little hard of a comsept for you to grasp but try to keep up) he's more popular than Drittz.
XHereticX 01-06-08, 05:32 PM	I think is pretty sure Cale will survive the whole thing, his hype is getting bigger than Drizzt's (at least in my nerd community ;) [] Yeah, I am starting to like better as well. I previously had never thought much about him. Then I read Shadowbred and Shadowstorm....wow. Shades are so much cooler than drow anyway:P
Lord Karsus 01-06-08, 06:25 PM	The shape of things to come, it seems, for spellcasters. Yeah, I know it's already been spoiled. -Ah, that's right. In the future, they are going to be relying on tools.
GreenKnight 01-06-08, 06:42 PM	Implements improves their spellcasting. It doesn't mean they can't cast spells without them.
XHereticX 01-06-08, 06:46 PM	I actually like the whole "favored implement" concept on mages, it will make playing spellcasters far easier and more enjoyable in my opinion.
Kenzuki 01-06-08, 07:47 PM	I think Artemis is a better rogue/assassin figure than Cale from what I've read of him. He's still cool. I think Artemis should become the new God of Assassins and kill Cyric. All in favor!?
XHereticX 01-06-08, 07:50 PM	I think Artemis is a better rogue/assassin figure than Cale from what I've read of him. He's still cool. I think Artemis should become the new God of Assassins and kill Cyric. All in favor!? Drizzt would be screwed...
MarkusTay63 01-07-08, 11:15 AM	Artemis really doesn't care about Drizzt anymore. But if he were a god, then I think his deiciples might give Drizzt a hard time. I really hope RAS doesn't peruse these boards - I'd HATE that storyline. Cattie Brie:"There's a Ninja in the closet!" Drizzt:"There's ALWAYS a Ninja in the closet..." with apologies to The Last Action Hero. ;)
sfdragon 01-07-08, 04:42 PM	may not be likely that Entreri would consider that an idea, when he was last seen he said he was going home. he will likely find himself and seek redemption. might even worship tempus......... and then become a demi-god of inner conflicts
Kenzuki 01-07-08, 05:16 PM	may not be likely that Entreri would consider that an idea, when he was last seen he said he was going home. he will likely find himself and seek redemption. might even worship tempus......... and then become a demi-god of inner conflicts Tempus....eck sorry Wulfgar shouting his name every 5th page kinda makes me sick of hearing him. "TEMPUS!" "TEMPOS!" "TEMPOOOOOOUUUUSSSSS!!!" *froaths at the mouth* No...Entreri is much too cool for that. Oh but I've always wondered why Entreri didn't die when Bane sucked all the souls of the assassins in the Avatar series. Was it for ALL assassins or just the ones who worshipped Bhaal?
Khaelieth 01-07-08, 05:30 PM	Not sure there... Presume he didn't worship Bhaal. Dunno who his patron is.
GreenKnight 01-07-08, 05:45 PM	I remember reading something a while back about TSR telling Salvatore that he had to kill off Artemis, because he's an Assassin, and they were killing off the Assassin class. Salvatore's response was that Artemis wasn't an Assassin. He was a Thief who killed people for money. And thus Artemis Entreri survived the 2E changeover.
Kenzuki 01-07-08, 05:55 PM	Didn't he say he was a fighter/thief who killed for money? Gee isn't that what an assassin basically is haha. By the way he has the Assassin prc in 3rd edition lol.
Khaelieth 01-07-08, 06:07 PM	I don't think Bane would care about classes. He wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a rogue/assassin, ranger/assassin and a fighter/rogue etc anyway. They sneak up and kill people for money. They're assassins by profession. I'm liable to call a fighter a warrior, soldier, mercenary or something akin when I'm DMing. I wouldn't be able to tell somebody's "class" IRL, and neither will anyone in MY Realms, even Bane. I think I'm trying to undermine Ed of the Greenwood's statement.
Lord Karsus 01-07-08, 06:22 PM	Bhaal: "Entreri, I am here for...your...SOUL!" *cue fire, brimstone and infernal laughter* Entreri: "Come again?" Bhaal: "I am collecting the souls of all assassins in the Realms. It was through my good graces that you were sucessful all these years. Now, I am here for payback..." Entreri: "Actually, I'm not an assassin. I am a Fighter/Thief, who just happens to kill for money." Bhaal: "Er...Oh..." -Priceless.
Khaelieth 01-07-08, 06:25 PM	Bhaal: "Entreri, I am here for...your...SOUL!" *cue fire, brimstone and infernal laughter* Entreri: "Come again?" Bhaal: "I am collecting the souls of all assassins in the Realms. It was through my good graces that you were sucessful all these years. Now, I am here for payback..." Entreri: "Actually, I'm not an assassin. I am a Fighter/Thief, who just happens to kill for money." Bhaal: "Er...Oh..." -Priceless. Exactly what I meant=)
Kenzuki 01-07-08, 06:25 PM	I think Entreri would then say to Bhaal "Yeah, you better keep walking."
Lord Karsus 01-07-08, 06:44 PM	I think Entreri would then say to Bhaal "Yeah, you better keep walking." -No, after Bhaal dies, and 3e appears, he'd be saying, "Sucker".
Kenzuki 01-07-08, 07:09 PM	-No, after Bhaal dies, and 3e appears, he'd be saying, "Sucker". Lord Karsus is full of win!
Lord Karsus 01-07-08, 08:05 PM	Lord Karsus is full of win! -He also melts in your mouth, not in your hand, is kid tested, mother approved, dishwasher safe, and recommended by 4 out of 5 dentists.
Dzwood 01-08-08, 10:35 AM	-He also melts in your mouth, not in your hand, is kid tested, mother approved, dishwasher safe, and recommended by 4 out of 5 dentists. I THOUGHT I saw a picture of you on the wall the last time I went in for a cleaning. I hear you have a great minty taste too!
18DELTA 01-09-08, 11:10 AM	Didn't he say he was a fighter/thief who killed for money? Gee isn't that what an assassin basically is haha. By the way he has the Assassin prc in 3rd edition lol. -Yes, you just have to love the retcon, of the retcon, of the retcon. That made me head hurt.:rolleyes: Lord DELTA:fight!:
dethmetal 01-09-08, 12:01 PM	Not sure there... Presume he didn't worship Bhaal. Dunno who his patron is. In Road of the Patriarch they hint at Artemis being an Athiest(as they are in the realms) early childhood experiences colored his view of religion, he is the bastard child of the high priest for his home town i forget which god/goddess they said the city worshiped, Sune i think. And while i'm sure he's seen proof of various dieties existance through divine spells and whatnot, he dosen't acctually worship any.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-09-08, 12:09 PM	It was Selune, not Sune (either way, that plot wasn't very believable to me).
18DELTA 01-09-08, 12:17 PM	It was Selune, not Sune (either way, that plot wasn't very believable to me). -Right you are Rinonalyrna, it was "Selune". In the story one of the other priest wrote a paper or something about Illbrandul, which leads me to believe they were priest's of EVERYBODY'S favorite Goddess SHAR.:rolleyes: Lord DELTA:fight!:
dethmetal 01-09-08, 12:40 PM	It was Selune, not Sune (either way, that plot wasn't very believable to me). I rather enjoyed that book. Besides the fact that he pulls just about anything and everything you could ever want out of his hat Jarlaxel makes for an entertaining lead, and Artemis is a great straightman for him. Plus i found Athrogate mildly entertaining, and he gets bonus points for cool magic weapons. Whens the last time you saw anyone fight with flails?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-09-08, 01:09 PM	I rather enjoyed that book. Besides the fact that he pulls just about anything and everything you could ever want out of his hat Jarlaxel makes for an entertaining lead, and Artemis is a great straightman for him. Plus i found Athrogate mildly entertaining, and he gets bonus points for cool magic weapons. Whens the last time you saw anyone fight with flails? I wasn't talking about the book in general, just that particular plot point involving the Church of Selune.
MarkusTay63 01-09-08, 05:45 PM	I rather enjoyed that book. Besides the fact that he pulls just about anything and everything you could ever want out of his hat Jarlaxel makes for an entertaining lead, and Artemis is a great straightman for him. Plus i found Athrogate mildly entertaining, and he gets bonus points for cool magic weapons. Whens the last time you saw anyone fight with flails?TWO flails... at the same time... made from an Elven Crystal, which Elves only use to create weapons for themselves... and THEY don't use flails... :rolleyes: True, I love the over-the-topness of the character - he was the books 'comic relief' - but in truth, his style of combat and choice of weapons was pretty unbelievable. I wouldn't want to see it in a Realms game, but for a story, it was alright. Almost all of RAS's character's use some form of TWO weapons - its his trademark. Yo-yo and Drow handbow, anyone? ;)
sfdragon 01-10-08, 04:42 AM	i thought they were glass steel
Flicker 01-10-08, 07:30 AM	Yes, the good-hearted protagonist dies at the end. Actually Rin, depends on your definition of 'death', since she still exists in a Sylune type of way, besides I hated that novel.
Flicker 01-10-08, 07:45 AM	Anyway back on Thread, let me pose this question, If we tend to agree on the ones who have died, as per several lists and the one who have survived, Drizzt and El, what changes do we think will happen? I ask as its interesting to note in the developers blog that he says he wants to put some of the Forgotten back into the Realms? That's really interesting, if you go right back to the original 1st Ed boxed set, the great and good say at that point that certain areas of the realms will not have information published about them, Sembia been the first that comes to mind. Now if you seperate the books from the source material, I can't remember anything specific been published on that area, from a gaming viewpoint, books add flavour only for me. So on that basis, how would we want to see areas/people changed? you've got to agree that some of the realms stuff was starting to sink under its own weight and whilst I am in principle against 4e and the lare megatonnage explosion way of fixing things in FR for 4e, if they manage to retain the flavour, then i'll just stat everything in 3.5 and buy the products for updates only. Thoughts?
Salrantol 01-12-08, 11:20 PM	Not Darth Vader. The Emperor, Darth Sidious. But why SW is in the Realms is anyone's guess.When the rights to the RPGs are both owned by the same company, guessing is not necessary--it's just cross-marketing. The key is to make the Realms seem cool to the average Star Wars geek, by making its moon the Death Star, mark III.
Lord Karsus 01-13-08, 01:38 AM	When the rights to the RPGs are both owned by the same company, guessing is not necessary--it's just cross-marketing. The key is to make the Realms seem cool to the average Star Wars geek, by making its moon the Death Star, mark III. -Hey, I am both a Realmslore Scholar and a Star Wars fanatic, and I resent that insinuation.
sfdragon 01-13-08, 03:58 AM	who had died for 4e realms. cattie-brie: old age of spell plague victim wulfgar: old age thunderspells from silverymoon old age or spell plague victim. honorable mentions: larloch, iolouam, ssaz tann UNdead already
Kenzuki 01-13-08, 07:28 AM	who had died for 4e realms. cattie-brie: old age of spell plague victim wulfgar: old age thunderspells from silverymoon old age or spell plague victim. honorable mentions: larloch, iolouam, ssaz tann UNdead already No one will care for long over the death of Wulgar, well Tempus might actually be relieved to not having to hear him shout his name fifty damn times in a battle.
GreenKnight 01-13-08, 07:31 AM	No one will care for long over the death of Wulgar, well Tempus might actually be relieved to not having to hear him shout his name fifty damn times in a battle. :rofl: Wulfgar: TEMPUUUSSSSSS!!! Tempus: I heard you, *******! Shut the hell up, already! :D Poor Wulfgar. Drizzt stole his place as a leading man, and then stole his leading lady, too. Put that bastard out of his misery, already.
Kenzuki 01-13-08, 07:42 AM	:rofl: Wulfgar: TEMPUUUSSSSSS!!! Tempus: I heard you, *******! Shut the hell up, already! :D Poor Wulfgar. Drizzt stole his place as a leading man, and then stole his leading lady, too. Put that bastard out of his misery, already. I hate to say it but after reading the first six legend of Drizzt books, I've got to say that Wulfgar annoys me the most even more than Regis. He's loudmouthed and arrogant. Not even Bruenor is that bad, somehow it's not as annoying coming from a dwarf I guess. Sometimes I really feel that Drizzt wants to just backhand him sometimes for insulting someone. Of course I don't really like arrogant characters unless they have class. On Entreri it's cool, on Wulfgar it's annoying. But yeah Drizzt stole his thunder and his woman, guess size isn't everything eh Wulfgar?:D
GothicDan 01-13-08, 11:14 AM	Size certainly helps... And I imagine Wulfgar would have developed much differently if over the course of the novels he HAD stayed on track as the main character, rather than the Drow.
Kenzuki 01-13-08, 01:36 PM	Size certainly helps... And I imagine Wulfgar would have developed much differently if over the course of the novels he HAD stayed on track as the main character, rather than the Drow. Oh certainly. Drizzt wasn't bad in the Icewind Dale trilogy really. Didn't R.A Sal actually say that in a way he was sad Drizzt was so big?
Lord Karsus 01-13-08, 02:23 PM	Oh certainly. Drizzt wasn't bad in the Icewind Dale trilogy really. Didn't R.A Sal actually say that in a way he was sad Drizzt was so big? -I don't know if he sad he was sad or not, but he did intend Wulfgar to play more of a leading role than he currently does.
Kenzuki 01-13-08, 02:24 PM	It was in some article about drow that was on the site a few years ago.
XHereticX 01-13-08, 05:14 PM	:rofl: Wulfgar: TEMPUUUSSSSSS!!! Tempus: I heard you, *******! Shut the hell up, already! :D Poor Wulfgar. Drizzt stole his place as a leading man, and then stole his leading lady, too. Put that bastard out of his misery, already. I think a great storyline would be if Wulfgar has finally had enough and turns on Drizzt... That would certainly add some much needed energy to the Drizzt saga.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-13-08, 06:11 PM	who had died for 4e realms. cattie-brie: old age of spell plague victim wulfgar: old age thunderspells from silverymoon old age or spell plague victim. honorable mentions: larloch, iolouam, ssaz tann UNdead already Come on, this is speculation at this point. Please don't pass speculation as facts.
GreenKnight 01-13-08, 06:47 PM	Come on, this is speculation at this point. Please don't pass speculation as facts. I'm confused by his last sentence. "honorable mentions: larloch, iolouam, ssaz tann UNdead already". Does he mean those characters are dead? Because we know for a fact that Ssazz Tam is still around.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-13-08, 06:49 PM	I'm confused by his last sentence. "honorable mentions: larloch, iolouam, ssaz tann UNdead already". Does he mean those characters are dead? Because we know for a fact that Ssazz Tam is still around. Indeed, it was mentioned in the recent, infamous article.
GreenKnight 01-13-08, 06:55 PM	Indeed, it was mentioned in the recent, infamous article. Even before that, Rich gave an answer on Thay and mentioned Ssazz Tam.
Lord Karsus 01-13-08, 07:02 PM	I'm confused by his last sentence. "honorable mentions: larloch, iolouam, ssaz tann UNdead already". Does he mean those characters are dead? Because we know for a fact that Ssazz Tam is still around. -I think he was being tongue-in-cheeck, since all three of those characters are all technically already dead.
XHereticX 01-13-08, 07:34 PM	-I think he was being tongue-in-cheeck, since all three of those characters are all technically already dead. Well, they are living dead. Wait, I'm confused now. I've never given this much thought before, but are living dead living or dead?:confused:
Lord Karsus 01-13-08, 07:39 PM	Wait, I'm confused now. I've never given this much thought before, but are living dead living or dead?:confused: -Undead.
XHereticX 01-13-08, 07:42 PM	-Undead. Un is a negation. So logically the un- negates the dead. So they are alive!!!:D
Kenzuki 01-13-08, 07:56 PM	Un is a negation. So logically the un- negates the dead. So they are alive!!!:D The corpse is unnaturally animated. So it's....unlife.
XHereticX 01-13-08, 07:59 PM	The corpse is unnaturally animated. So it's....unlife. Animation dosen't equal life. It also dosen't describe the status of the subject in name, but only a process by which it is formed. Thus it is irrelevent in describing the subject's existance.
Kenzuki 01-13-08, 08:09 PM	Animation dosen't equal life. It also dosen't describe the status of the subject in name, but only a process by which it is formed. Thus it is irrelevent in describing the subject's existance. It's a corpse that's animated.....undeath.
XHereticX 01-13-08, 08:11 PM	It's a corpse that's animated.....undeath. Which negates death. Therefore you prove my point that it is alive;) You came full circle my friend, full circle.
The_Shaman 01-13-08, 08:16 PM	@XHereticX: no, they simply aren't dead. That doesn't mean they are alive though - things aren't so simple when magic gets involved ;)
XHereticX 01-13-08, 08:17 PM	@XHereticX: no, they simply aren't dead. That doesn't mean they are alive though - things aren't so simple when magic gets involved ;) I guess the best way to describe it is just like Tolkien did with his ringwraiths:"They are neither living nor dead."
Kenzuki 01-13-08, 09:32 PM	I guess the best way to describe it is just like Tolkien did with his ringwraiths:"They are neither living nor dead." They are.....the Living Dead.
sfdragon 01-14-08, 04:30 AM	Come on, this is speculation at this point. Please don't pass speculation as facts. i dont see cattie brie being over 100 years do you?
Lord Karsus 01-14-08, 04:46 AM	i dont see cattie brie being over 100 years do you? -If she's a Wizard now, it's certainly plausible. I damn well hope not, but it's plausible.
Dzwood 01-14-08, 08:11 AM	Cattie became a lich!!!!! Now she and Hubby can battle evil for centruies. She plans on making Dritz undead one day to. RAS will be writing books forever! Mwahahahahahaha!!!! * And then I woke up screaming* "Thank God it was only a dream"
Philalexandros 01-14-08, 09:03 AM	Oddly enough, I seem to remember one of RAS' novels hinting at what potions of longevity could achieve. Or it could be I am entirely mistaken, and have confused this topic with one of the ways they explained away the immortality of Elminster and other Chosen in Old Grey Box-era products. :confused:
Kenzuki 01-14-08, 12:24 PM	-If she's a Wizard now, it's certainly plausible. I damn well hope not, but it's plausible. If she's a wizard, the Spellplague might mess her up in the head.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-14-08, 01:46 PM	i dont see cattie brie being over 100 years do you? But you're presupposing that nothing happens that causes Catti-brie to have a longer life than that.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-14-08, 01:47 PM	If she's a wizard, the Spellplague might mess her up in the head. Or it might not. The Spellplague didn't adversely effect everyone.
dethmetal 01-14-08, 01:55 PM	Or it might not. The Spellplague didn't adversely effect everyone. Orginally i thought the spellplauge was going to be Cattie's end, but the more i've gathered from everyones speculation on the boards. I think the higher level of spellcaster (arcane atleast) you are the more of a problem the spellplauge is likely to be, she may be able to slide under the line of "high level" she is starting her arcane training rather late in her life afterall. Did they ever give a year for when the events in "Orc King" took place? I haven't read AGHoTR, and not 100% sure when those events took event in relation to the spellplauge starting. It could go either way though, It's a little to early to really know, the new rules aren't due out for another few months i believe, and then the FRCS 4e not till fall. I'm not sure when the next RAS book is due out but i think it's shortly after that.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-14-08, 01:57 PM	It's a little to early to really know... That's really what it all comes down to.:)
dethmetal 01-14-08, 02:05 PM	That dosen't make the speculating any less fun though.
sfdragon 01-14-08, 05:02 PM	-I think he was being tongue-in-cheeck, since all three of those characters are all technically already dead. and you are correct......as i said UNdead
sfdragon 01-14-08, 05:06 PM	But you're presupposing that nothing happens that causes Catti-brie to have a longer life than that. true, however most of the items pre epic are artifacts, and would be hard to find as it is. potions of longevity, I doubt she could brew, even for nanfoodle. alustirel could. and everything else, the extend life span feat are epic deals. Cattie was only lvl 7 in her stat write up, she might be lvl 10 now, so as i said seh likely will succumb to old age but what id like to know if bruenor ever got married to that female dwarven cleric whose name i cant remember
HralorpAxpain 01-19-08, 04:35 AM	Stumpet Ravenclaw?
Lord Karsus 01-19-08, 04:40 AM	but what id like to know if bruenor ever got married to that female dwarven cleric whose name i cant remember -I don't recall Bruenor ever taking a wife. Mind you, I haven't read The Orc King yet, so if this takes place during that book, SBLOCK it, please.
XHereticX 01-19-08, 02:11 PM	I have never cared for Cattie, always thought she was a double-crossing fangirl who broke poor Wulfgar's heart. Personally, I would like to see her transformed into an undead anti-hero just to make things more interesting. Then again, I haven't read Orc King either, so please don't spoil it.
Lord Karsus 01-19-08, 02:18 PM	I have never cared for Cattie, always thought she was a double-crossing fangirl who broke poor Wulfgar's heart. -You know, I feel the same. She and Wulfgar were meant to be together.
XHereticX 01-19-08, 02:20 PM	-You know, I feel the same. She and Wulfgar were meant to be together. I actually do think that she would be better with Drizzt, it's just that how she treated Wulfgar after their marriage and all they had been through made me sick.
Lord Karsus 01-19-08, 02:38 PM	-What was the word of the month on these Boards? 'Bimbo'? :D :P
XHereticX 01-19-08, 02:40 PM	-What was the word of the month on these Boards? 'Bimbo'? :D :P I was thinking of a certain other B-word but that works too:P
Warning 01-19-08, 02:45 PM	I have never cared for Cattie, always thought she was a double-crossing fangirl who broke poor Wulfgar's heart. Personally, I would like to see her transformed into an undead anti-hero just to make things more interesting. Then again, I haven't read Orc King either, so please don't spoil it. Yeah dude, she was going to sleep with wulfgar just to make him feel better. Than she has feelings with Drizzt. That's why I like Artemis, cross him and you get tossed out the window naked (See Road of the Patriarch) :D
XHereticX 01-19-08, 04:53 PM	Yeah dude, she was going to sleep with wulfgar just to make him feel better. Than she has feelings with Drizzt. That's why I like Artemis, cross him and you get tossed out the window naked (See Road of the Patriarch) :D Artemis and Jarlaxle were always my two favorite Bob Salvatore characters.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 01-19-08, 08:41 PM	-I don't recall Bruenor ever taking a wife. Mind you, I haven't read The Orc King yet, so if this takes place during that book, SBLOCK it, please. I've read all the Drizzt books, and he hasn't taken a wife as far as I know.
Kenzuki 01-19-08, 08:46 PM	I've read the Dark Elf and Icewind Dale Trilogies and a little bit of the Thousand Orcs. Funny story really got into the Thousand Orcs as a recomendation and couldn't get into it because I didn't know who the hell these people were. So when the new Lockwood cover Drizzt books came out I started collecting them. Sure I could go buy all the rest but I want them to all match. I'm getting the paperback ones. It's taking a while to release them all though *sighs*
sfdragon 01-19-08, 11:04 PM	-I don't recall Bruenor ever taking a wife. Mind you, I haven't read The Orc King yet, so if this takes place during that book, SBLOCK it, please. as far as the books are, he hasnt, or at least it wasnt mentioned, but by 4e the lore might state that he did
Lord Karsus 01-20-08, 03:03 AM	as far as the books are, he hasnt, or at least it wasnt mentioned, but by 4e the lore might state that he did -Good point. In 100 years, a lot can happen.
Vulpes 01-20-08, 11:43 PM	Well, he doesn't HAVE to be married to have kids. One can always pull out the old "secret/unknown love child" trick from the soap opera hat.
Lord Karsus 01-21-08, 02:52 AM	Well, he doesn't HAVE to be married to have kids. One can always pull out the old "secret/unknown love child" trick from the soap opera hat. -I really don't see something like that happening too often in the honor-bound Dwarven society that Dwarves live in.
dethmetal 01-23-08, 02:17 PM	-I really don't see something like that happening too often in the honor-bound Dwarven society that Dwarves live in. even the most honor bound dwarves can fall victim to those most vile of cursed items, the beer goggles. Whos to say one weekend service didn't get a little to far into the dwarven holywater.
Vulpes 01-23-08, 10:11 PM	-I really don't see something like that happening too often in the honor-bound Dwarven society that Dwarves live in. Doesn't have to happen often, it just has to happen. Or we could get even more soap opera and he was married as a very young dwarf, and his wife was pregnant, but before she could tell him, orcs attacked and he thought they killed her, but really she was knocked unconscious and taken by them, only to be waylaid by another group of dwarves, but she had amnesia so she never came back, and Bruenor never talks about it because it's just too painful.
Lord Karsus 01-23-08, 11:55 PM	Doesn't have to happen often, it just has to happen. Or we could get even more soap opera and he was married as a very young dwarf, and his wife was pregnant, but before she could tell him, orcs attacked and he thought they killed her, but really she was knocked unconscious and taken by them, only to be waylaid by another group of dwarves, but she had amnesia so she never came back, and Bruenor never talks about it because it's just too painful. -That certainly is soap opera-ish.
Ryltar Swordsong 01-24-08, 06:59 AM	Doesn't have to happen often, it just has to happen. Or we could get even more soap opera and he was married as a very young dwarf, and his wife was pregnant, but before she could tell him, orcs attacked and he thought they killed her, but really she was knocked unconscious and taken by them, only to be waylaid by another group of dwarves, but she had amnesia so she never came back, and Bruenor never talks about it because it's just too painful. Like sands through the hourglass, so are the Days of the Realms. (with apologies to the Days of our Lives fans out there)
Vulpes 01-24-08, 11:37 PM	Like sands through the hourglass, so are the Days of the Realms. (with apologies to the Days of our Lives fans out there) I was thinking more "As The Realms Turn" or "One Unlife To Live." *LOL*
MarkusTay63 01-25-08, 12:51 AM	"The Dead and the Restless" "General Obould's Hospital" "Guiding Points of Light" "Another World"... oh wait... that one actually fits... :rolleyes:
Storm_Silverhand 01-25-08, 06:01 AM	Heya, "The Dead and the Restless" "General Obould's Hospital" "Guiding Points of Light" "Another World"... oh wait... that one actually fits... :rolleyes: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I like "Guiding Points of Light" best. :D
Vulpes 01-26-08, 01:36 AM	Heya, :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I like "Guiding Points of Light" best. :D Yeah, I like that one, too!