Storm Silverhand's farm [Shadowdale: SoTL] *mild spoilers* [Archive] - Wizards Community

Storm Silverhand's farm [Shadowdale: SoTL] *mild spoilers* [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The Simbul
09-18-07, 07:21 PM While contemplating writing/posting a review for Shadowdale: Scouring of the Land, I noted a rather odd absence.

There is virtually no mention of Storm Silverhand's farm...hardly anywhere, including the exhausting list of notes on virtually every building in the city.

We know from short stories like Bloodbound (Best of the Realms: Book II) that it is a well-protected place of magical power--presumably through either through Storm's own capabilities, lingering magical wards left there by previous inhabitants, or perhaps a combination of both. We likewise know from Tears so White (Realms of the Elves) that it contains a secret portal to a presumably fairly important location.

Yet, apart from being noted on the environs of Shadowdale map, there is not a single mention of Storm Silverhand's farm--or what became of it during the siege or occupation--anywhere in the module.

By comparison, we have generic short summaries of what became of similar locales such as Elminster's Tower, the shrine to Mystra, and the ruins of Syluné's hut. We likewise have even more extensive detail on comparatively less famous/infamous sites, such as a full account of the alignment, race, subrace, and number of levels in commoner or expert possessed by the widowed wife of the town smith Selgard and his five surviving children. We likewise have a chunk of space wasted on reprinting feats of NPC villains whose benefits would have already be configured into their stat blocks and thus have no need of extensive detailing. Thus not being able to spare a sentence or notation on it--either for concerns of space, or importance, or for avoiding details of absent NPC personages--does not sound very realistic.

As for why such information may be needed--or have to be improvised by a significant number of DMs--well it would seem fairly obvious to me. Any player with a minimal amount of knowledge of Shadowdale will manage to come up with some reason (either in-character or out-of-character) to go find out what happened to it, either to;

* Find out what transpired, and what happened to local NPC heroes (both for curiosity and to earn potential ad-hoc recognition points).
* Slay any villains (or Harpers)1 residing within, or use any of it's (potentially intact)2 magical defenses for a safe resting locale.
* Loot or "borrow"1 from hidden treasure hoards and the numerous caches of magic items Storm has crafted or collected over the centuries.

So anyone care to take a stab as to why it has gone unmentioned?

1Depending on alignment or like/dislike of the Harpers or this particular member.
2Assuming such defenses are not based on evocation (hallow, glyph of warding, epic spells based on the mythal seed, etc), transmutation, or silver fire.
Zandilar
09-18-07, 07:35 PM Heya,

So anyone care to take a stab as to why it has gone unmentioned?

Two thoughts...

1) They simply didn't think of it.

2) It was too difficult to deal with/would have made some of their plots not work so well (ie: given the PCs too big an edge), so they ignored it.
Faraer
09-18-07, 08:06 PM Omitting to mention it may be a simple mistake, as with the neglect of Northend, a whole section of the town. But there would only have been space for a quick note like the mention of Elminster's basement (detailed in Dungeon #30): 'Local tales suggest that some sort of subterranean complex exists below the tower, home to a watchghost named Ilsheen, but, if this is true, it remains hidden by Elminster's lingering wards' -- not a big help for the DM. (And of gates and extradimensional caches around the dale, not a word.)

Anyway, Storm is away from the dale often enough that I doubt there's much of great magical value at her farm that can be found in any reasonable amount of time and looted without blowing yourself up or trapping your soul a dozen times.

The more fundamental problem is that the encounter format left so little space for discussing the PCs' dealing with the dalesfolk generally, even though that's the heart of the adventure.
The Simbul
09-18-07, 08:28 PM Heya,

Two thoughts...

1) They simply didn't think of it.

2) It was too difficult to deal with/would have made some of their plots not work so well (ie: given the PCs too big an edge), so they ignored it.1) Now that one I find a little too hard to believe. The adventure makes a point to take a full account of all the local NPC adventurers, and makes certain the Chosen of Mystra are not available throughout. Beyond that, we have a short description of the pond outside Elminster's tower, the village well, and three separate locations where Syluné once resided and/or which are sacred to her (Aumry's Tomb, Syluné's hut, and the Twisted Tower). Thus accidentally overlooking it seems a bit off in my opinion.

2) That is just it. As a DM I am not looking for detail on Storm's farm as a potential edge-giver to the PCs. To the contrary, I am looking for details to give my PCs to explain why they will not be able to glean any treasure or advantage from the locale, or at least none that is not earned through an equal level encounter. The possibility of the PCs (or the villains) looting or exploiting the ruins of Elminster's tower is taken care of by it being blasted into another plane, and Syluné's hut has not likely had any wealth of magic items for several decades. That takes care of two of the unoccupied areas where any large wealth of unattended magic items could have been expected to be found. By contrast, Storm Silverhand's farm seems be to lacking any exposition information to factor it off the list of locations to explore/plunder.
Zandilar
09-19-07, 04:10 AM Heya,

1) Now that one I find a little too hard to believe. The adventure makes a point to take a full account of all the local NPC adventurers, and makes certain the Chosen of Mystra are not available throughout. Beyond that, we have a short description of the pond outside Elminster's tower, the village well, and three separate locations where Syluné once resided and/or which are sacred to her (Aumry's Tomb, Syluné's hut, and the Twisted Tower). Thus accidentally overlooking it seems a bit off in my opinion.

I was just operating from the school of thought that says "never assign to maliciousness what you could assign to ignorance (or apathy)". :)

It might also just be they were running out of pages. (I'm not defending them here, merely trying to think of why they'd leave something that important out. Of course, what is important to you or I, may not be important to the writers of the adventure.)

2) That is just it. As a DM I am not looking for detail on Storm's farm as a potential edge-giver to the PCs. To the contrary, I am looking for details to give my PCs to explain why they will not be able to glean any treasure or advantage from the locale, or at least none that is not earned through an equal level encounter. The possibility of the PCs (or the villains) looting or exploiting the ruins of Elminster's tower is taken care of by it being blasted into another plane, and Syluné's hut has not likely had any wealth of magic items for several decades. That takes care of two of the unoccupied areas where any large wealth of unattended magic items could have been expected to be found. By contrast, Storm Silverhand's farm seems be to lacking any exposition information to factor it off the list of locations to explore/plunder.

What I was trying to say was that the authors basically found Storm's farm just too awkward to include. Or they were lazy. Or they didn't really think it through.

IMHO, It's crazy it wasn't in there.
ShadezofDis
09-19-07, 11:52 AM Sounds like a massive flub to me. Any way you slice it, if it was a matter of forgetting, if it was a matter of laziness, if it was a matter of "we don't know what to do with this one".

I can't imagine it'd be too hard to come up with a reason why one couldn't come up with reasons why she's not home, why her house defenses have been blasting the enemy and you could just have a quick note saying;
"Coming upon Storm's farm you see the blackened corpses of various beings dot the landscape and as you approach the building you can feel malevolent magics in the air."

ie. Storm isn't home but her wards are intact and they'll smoke the PCs like a cheap cigar. :)
GothicDan
09-19-07, 12:59 PM Is there a list of reference sources listed anywhere in the product that were used to compile its content? I know some products give these.

Perhaps the authors didn't think to look in novels for information they felt would be appropriate for the adventure. Though, with Eric and Tom being two of the designers, I don't think they'd make such a decision to not even bother perusing valid novel sources (especially those of Ed's).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
09-19-07, 02:20 PM Plenty of things about this adventure, that I've seen, rub me the wrong way to begin with, so I don't feel compelled to defend it. However, as others have said it's certainly likely the omission of Storm's farm was a mistake.

Anyway, Simbul, please post a review of the adventure if you write one--I'd love to read it.
Uzzy
09-19-07, 03:05 PM Couple of ideas (feel free to tare them apart!)

Zhentarim burnt it to the ground in a show of force, hoping to cower the locals even more.

Storm has taken all/most of her magical items with her to Myth Drannor, thinking it much more convient to have those items close at hand during her defence of the City of Song. The house has been heavily warded against entry, and the Zhents are keeping out, along with keeping anyone else out.

The Sharrans are quite gleefully using it as a forward base.
ShadezofDis
09-19-07, 03:07 PM Couple of ideas (feel free to tare them apart!)

Zhentarim burnt it to the ground in a show of force, hoping to cower the locals even more.

Storm has taken all/most of her magical items with her to Myth Drannor, thinking it much more convient to have those items close at hand during her defence of the City of Song. The house has been heavily warded against entry, and the Zhents are keeping out, along with keeping anyone else out.

The Sharrans are quite gleefully using it as a forward base.

I like my idea better. :P

;)
Uzzy
09-19-07, 03:14 PM I agree. That is a good one!

Hmm, idea. Why don't we do a short paragraph/couple of paragraphs detailing Storm's farmhouse during SoTL?

One reason why they might not have included Storm's farmhouse is that they are keeping it back for a Web Enhancement, perhaps?
msatran
09-20-07, 12:13 AM I was a little surprised at this, too. At least I knew where she was so that she wasn't PRESENT at the time. (I had to have her visit some PC's to warn them about something.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Simbul 09-18-07, 07:21 PM	While contemplating writing/posting a review for Shadowdale: Scouring of the Land, I noted a rather odd absence. There is virtually no mention of Storm Silverhand's farm...hardly anywhere, including the exhausting list of notes on virtually every building in the city. We know from short stories like Bloodbound (Best of the Realms: Book II) that it is a well-protected place of magical power--presumably through either through Storm's own capabilities, lingering magical wards left there by previous inhabitants, or perhaps a combination of both. We likewise know from Tears so White (Realms of the Elves) that it contains a secret portal to a presumably fairly important location. Yet, apart from being noted on the environs of Shadowdale map, there is not a single mention of Storm Silverhand's farm--or what became of it during the siege or occupation--anywhere in the module. By comparison, we have generic short summaries of what became of similar locales such as Elminster's Tower, the shrine to Mystra, and the ruins of Syluné's hut. We likewise have even more extensive detail on comparatively less famous/infamous sites, such as a full account of the alignment, race, subrace, and number of levels in commoner or expert possessed by the widowed wife of the town smith Selgard and his five surviving children. We likewise have a chunk of space wasted on reprinting feats of NPC villains whose benefits would have already be configured into their stat blocks and thus have no need of extensive detailing. Thus not being able to spare a sentence or notation on it--either for concerns of space, or importance, or for avoiding details of absent NPC personages--does not sound very realistic. As for why such information may be needed--or have to be improvised by a significant number of DMs--well it would seem fairly obvious to me. Any player with a minimal amount of knowledge of Shadowdale will manage to come up with some reason (either in-character or out-of-character) to go find out what happened to it, either to; * Find out what transpired, and what happened to local NPC heroes (both for curiosity and to earn potential ad-hoc recognition points). * Slay any villains (or Harpers)1 residing within, or use any of it's (potentially intact)2 magical defenses for a safe resting locale. * Loot or "borrow"1 from hidden treasure hoards and the numerous caches of magic items Storm has crafted or collected over the centuries. So anyone care to take a stab as to why it has gone unmentioned? 1Depending on alignment or like/dislike of the Harpers or this particular member. 2Assuming such defenses are not based on evocation (hallow, glyph of warding, epic spells based on the mythal seed, etc), transmutation, or silver fire.
Zandilar 09-18-07, 07:35 PM	Heya, So anyone care to take a stab as to why it has gone unmentioned? Two thoughts... 1) They simply didn't think of it. 2) It was too difficult to deal with/would have made some of their plots not work so well (ie: given the PCs too big an edge), so they ignored it.
Faraer 09-18-07, 08:06 PM	Omitting to mention it may be a simple mistake, as with the neglect of Northend, a whole section of the town. But there would only have been space for a quick note like the mention of Elminster's basement (detailed in Dungeon #30): 'Local tales suggest that some sort of subterranean complex exists below the tower, home to a watchghost named Ilsheen, but, if this is true, it remains hidden by Elminster's lingering wards' -- not a big help for the DM. (And of gates and extradimensional caches around the dale, not a word.) Anyway, Storm is away from the dale often enough that I doubt there's much of great magical value at her farm that can be found in any reasonable amount of time and looted without blowing yourself up or trapping your soul a dozen times. The more fundamental problem is that the encounter format left so little space for discussing the PCs' dealing with the dalesfolk generally, even though that's the heart of the adventure.
The Simbul 09-18-07, 08:28 PM	Heya, Two thoughts... 1) They simply didn't think of it. 2) It was too difficult to deal with/would have made some of their plots not work so well (ie: given the PCs too big an edge), so they ignored it.1) Now that one I find a little too hard to believe. The adventure makes a point to take a full account of all the local NPC adventurers, and makes certain the Chosen of Mystra are not available throughout. Beyond that, we have a short description of the pond outside Elminster's tower, the village well, and three separate locations where Syluné once resided and/or which are sacred to her (Aumry's Tomb, Syluné's hut, and the Twisted Tower). Thus accidentally overlooking it seems a bit off in my opinion. 2) That is just it. As a DM I am not looking for detail on Storm's farm as a potential edge-giver to the PCs. To the contrary, I am looking for details to give my PCs to explain why they will not be able to glean any treasure or advantage from the locale, or at least none that is not earned through an equal level encounter. The possibility of the PCs (or the villains) looting or exploiting the ruins of Elminster's tower is taken care of by it being blasted into another plane, and Syluné's hut has not likely had any wealth of magic items for several decades. That takes care of two of the unoccupied areas where any large wealth of unattended magic items could have been expected to be found. By contrast, Storm Silverhand's farm seems be to lacking any exposition information to factor it off the list of locations to explore/plunder.
Zandilar 09-19-07, 04:10 AM	Heya, 1) Now that one I find a little too hard to believe. The adventure makes a point to take a full account of all the local NPC adventurers, and makes certain the Chosen of Mystra are not available throughout. Beyond that, we have a short description of the pond outside Elminster's tower, the village well, and three separate locations where Syluné once resided and/or which are sacred to her (Aumry's Tomb, Syluné's hut, and the Twisted Tower). Thus accidentally overlooking it seems a bit off in my opinion. I was just operating from the school of thought that says "never assign to maliciousness what you could assign to ignorance (or apathy)". :) It might also just be they were running out of pages. (I'm not defending them here, merely trying to think of why they'd leave something that important out. Of course, what is important to you or I, may not be important to the writers of the adventure.) 2) That is just it. As a DM I am not looking for detail on Storm's farm as a potential edge-giver to the PCs. To the contrary, I am looking for details to give my PCs to explain why they will not be able to glean any treasure or advantage from the locale, or at least none that is not earned through an equal level encounter. The possibility of the PCs (or the villains) looting or exploiting the ruins of Elminster's tower is taken care of by it being blasted into another plane, and Syluné's hut has not likely had any wealth of magic items for several decades. That takes care of two of the unoccupied areas where any large wealth of unattended magic items could have been expected to be found. By contrast, Storm Silverhand's farm seems be to lacking any exposition information to factor it off the list of locations to explore/plunder. What I was trying to say was that the authors basically found Storm's farm just too awkward to include. Or they were lazy. Or they didn't really think it through. IMHO, It's crazy it wasn't in there.
ShadezofDis 09-19-07, 11:52 AM	Sounds like a massive flub to me. Any way you slice it, if it was a matter of forgetting, if it was a matter of laziness, if it was a matter of "we don't know what to do with this one". I can't imagine it'd be too hard to come up with a reason why one couldn't come up with reasons why she's not home, why her house defenses have been blasting the enemy and you could just have a quick note saying; "Coming upon Storm's farm you see the blackened corpses of various beings dot the landscape and as you approach the building you can feel malevolent magics in the air." ie. Storm isn't home but her wards are intact and they'll smoke the PCs like a cheap cigar. :)
GothicDan 09-19-07, 12:59 PM	Is there a list of reference sources listed anywhere in the product that were used to compile its content? I know some products give these. Perhaps the authors didn't think to look in novels for information they felt would be appropriate for the adventure. Though, with Eric and Tom being two of the designers, I don't think they'd make such a decision to not even bother perusing valid novel sources (especially those of Ed's).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-19-07, 02:20 PM	Plenty of things about this adventure, that I've seen, rub me the wrong way to begin with, so I don't feel compelled to defend it. However, as others have said it's certainly likely the omission of Storm's farm was a mistake. Anyway, Simbul, please post a review of the adventure if you write one--I'd love to read it.
Uzzy 09-19-07, 03:05 PM	Couple of ideas (feel free to tare them apart!) Zhentarim burnt it to the ground in a show of force, hoping to cower the locals even more. Storm has taken all/most of her magical items with her to Myth Drannor, thinking it much more convient to have those items close at hand during her defence of the City of Song. The house has been heavily warded against entry, and the Zhents are keeping out, along with keeping anyone else out. The Sharrans are quite gleefully using it as a forward base.
ShadezofDis 09-19-07, 03:07 PM	Couple of ideas (feel free to tare them apart!) Zhentarim burnt it to the ground in a show of force, hoping to cower the locals even more. Storm has taken all/most of her magical items with her to Myth Drannor, thinking it much more convient to have those items close at hand during her defence of the City of Song. The house has been heavily warded against entry, and the Zhents are keeping out, along with keeping anyone else out. The Sharrans are quite gleefully using it as a forward base. I like my idea better. :P ;)
Uzzy 09-19-07, 03:14 PM	I agree. That is a good one! Hmm, idea. Why don't we do a short paragraph/couple of paragraphs detailing Storm's farmhouse during SoTL? One reason why they might not have included Storm's farmhouse is that they are keeping it back for a Web Enhancement, perhaps?
msatran 09-20-07, 12:13 AM	I was a little surprised at this, too. At least I knew where she was so that she wasn't PRESENT at the time. (I had to have her visit some PC's to warn them about something.)