Sun Soul Monk to Dark Moon Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sun Soul Monk to Dark Moon Monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
morvegil
06-10-07, 08:57 PM I am a Sun Soul MOnk (worshipping Selune). But recent actions and adventuring with my party (who is a mix of chaotic good, neutral good, and chaotic neutral) have caused my alignment to shift to Lawful Neutral (Something about being sent to the AByss then getting a Gias by Lolth). Oh yeah,No Im a Drow with alter self on to look like a human

Anyways, so I went from Lawful Good, serioulsy annoying my party, to Lawful Neutral. Now my party likes me better but now they think my monk is slipping to the Dark Side. Right now we are in Sembia and fought off a cell of Dark Moon monks. Then we split up to do shopping errands, I was approached by a Dark Moon master, asking me to join the Monks of the Dark Moon. He showed me the powers I would get (My DM made a prestige class for Dark Moon Monks).

What should I do? I already felt the power of darkness by becoming a Drow (Only one guy in my party suspects it). I feel the want for more power now, and since im Lawful Neutral I only care now for upholding the Law!
MerrikCale
06-10-07, 10:33 PM stick with Selune. She's hotter
Zireael
06-11-07, 06:59 AM Go to the Dark Moon! And with drow and Lloth... you'll be better.
msatran
06-11-07, 12:30 PM The hints are already there that your fellow PC's will whack your character if you become a dark moon monk. Since one guy who fights the rest of his party never wins, my advice is stick with Selune and make sure the game is fun for everyone, not just yourself.
Drew1369r
06-12-07, 06:33 PM stick with Selune. She's hotter

being twins that has to be difficult... ;) :P oh well

Too the other guy... so far you have done pretty well to hide your identity already being that only one PC only suspects it... see what happens... make it fun for you... and if it becomes to disruptive retire the character or have the DM use it as an NPC antagonist :)
The_Shaman
06-14-07, 09:47 AM Whichever you think your character would do. Seriously, a LN character is not supposed to change allegiances easily, and such a change would be a treason of the highest order, but if you want to RP a fall from grace, why not?

However, keep in mind don't need to be good to venerate Selune, and her relationship with Shar means that sticking by one means bitter war with the other. If you have even a shred of respect for the Moonmaiden or her teachings, I'd say show that misguided fool what you can do.

Edit: So your party - a CG, NG and CN party would prefer a LN version of a character over a LG one? Weird.
morvegil
06-14-07, 12:24 PM Yeah,

They were annoyed I was being "good two shoes" all the time. Especially my adverance to getting lots of gold. The real kicker was my character was banished to the abyss withthe dead corpse of my selunite friend. After spending weeks in teh Abyss I failed my will saves and begain to eat the clerics corpse to survive..my character basically went insane as Selune had abandoned him

As my DM said "There is no moon anymore"
Alac Luin
06-14-07, 02:11 PM That actually sounds like a good reason to embrace Shar, and the DM is exploiting this.

This can be fun to role play but has the potential to be devastating to the party as a whole or at least to the characters health.

Just wondering, do you get along well with the rest of the players out of character?
(Can the DM be using a tactic to remove a problem player/ or PC?).
I'm not trying to be offensive, but not knowing you, your DM, or the other players I cant know.
You don't have to answer publicly, at least ask yourself this.

I'd consider talking to the DM away from the other players to see where their mind is at, is he/she trying to find an in-game explanation for the removal of your drow/human monk.

If all is well out of character, I'd say this can be a very fun thing explore role playing wise if the other players wouldn't get hard feelings over the in game "betrayal".
morvegil
06-14-07, 04:34 PM Actual I always talked to my GM about a "fall from grace". So hes actually cool with it, and he actually likes the storyline we can use if I do.

Right now people in my party say im going to be the next Darth Vader! lol
Meldread
06-14-07, 05:37 PM Becoming Lawful Evil does not mean that you have to backstab your friends. In fact reading what I have about your character I do not believe that he would do such a thing. Can you tell me more about the geas placed on you by Lolth?

From the tone of your post I gather that you want to embrace the Dark Side - I say go for it. The Dark Moon monks worship Shar, so it is not as if you have to reveal your true nature.

Just keep a few things in mind: Is the Dark Moon monk using you to join the order in hopes of you betraying the rest of your group? Is it a serious proposal? Is it something your character would do?

If you can answer yes to all those questions I say go for it. Then use the opportunity to slowly begin corrupting the other members of your party, finding ways to cause them to slip toward either neutral leaning evil or out right evil.

It is hard to give advice though because I don't know enough of the back story. I like the sound of your DM. I can imagine your character becoming bitter, angry and resentful of Selune for abandoning him and learning to understand why Shar "hates" her sister so much - and embracing her as a result. I am sure loss features heavily in his life as well. I think your DM is making a good move.
morvegil
06-14-07, 06:27 PM Yes,

I like my friends, and part of my "Loss" was a sacrifice for them..I actually took the move that sent me to the plane instead of them. The Gias we have is Lolth will call upon us to do a task, i was transformed by lolth to make sure they do fulfill it. I have a alterself on myself so people still think im human.

My character started out as the mother of a prosittue and pirate, and led a life of crime until the Selune temple took me in and I converted to a monk to lead a better life at seeing the Brotherhood take me in.

But as I travelled i learned more of the lands and the people, even my own party ridiculed me a bit for helping homeless and giving away 100's of gold to them. But it was the Abyss and the abandonment of Selune in my darkest hour which turned me from the light of the Moon.

Now turning to the shadow of the moon will make the circle complete, as I may get vengeance and the power to restore order.

One more problem, the Werewolf in my party is a Selunite bard...should i maintain the secret or try to bend his thoughts to Shar?
Meldread
06-14-07, 07:12 PM Bend his thoughts to Shar definitely. Subtlety is the key and if you do a good job they will never know the truth until after they have all fallen.

Here is my view of Shar and her followers from another thread on these forums.

A Sharran prospective is something like this: Death for all living things is inevitable. Not even the divine are immune to this, as the time of troubles recently demonstrated. If you live, you will die - that is a certainty.

Shar's main objective is to survive long enough to be there at the point when she, her last remaining followers, and a handful of other deities are all that is left. In an ideal scenario, Shar might see the greatly weakened Chauntea, Mystra and Selune as the last remaining deities, having consumed, slain or otherwise removed the others from the picture.

A Sharran views the world as an evil thing - full of suffering, pain and loss. Life is an innately evil thing and it is merciful to snuff it out. After all, to live is to suffer and while your life may have its good moments it is ultimately pointless because in the end you will die and be forgotten. Therefore, it is pointless for you to hope and strive to better your lot in life - doing so will only lead to disappointment if you fail, and even if you are successful, you will still die in the end.

Shar preys upon the negative emotions of others, and by far most of her followers serve her for this reason. Her followers work to undermine governments and local authorities because when there is less order people are more likely to turn to their baser instincts and emotions, thereby bringing pain and suffering to others, which can then in turn be harnessed to bring others closer to Shar.

Shar looks for vengeance because when people turn to vengeance they bring pain and loss into the lives of others. Vengeance creates a cycle that serves to fuel Shar's power. The more you seek it, the more you harm others, and the closer all are brought to Shar.

Shar preys upon bitterness because when you are bitter you are less compassionate and willing to help others, thereby allowing pain and suffering to occur around you - allowing others to be brought closer to Shar.

Shar preys upon secrets because even a small secret can be manipulated into even greater secrets, until an individuals life is full of secrets and they are living a lie. They turn to Shar to guard those secrets, afraid of what would happen if others uncovered them.

In the end, a Sharran views life as one might view a fire. It burns for as long as it has fuel, consuming everything in the process. However, inevitably, even the largest fire will run out of fuel and be snuffed out. Darkness is the natural state, the state from which the world emerged, and when fire (life) is finally extinguished, it will return to that state. It is an inevitable thing.

The Sharran who sees this then turns to her for this very reason. After all, if her victory is inevitable do you wish to be on any other side?
Meldread
06-14-07, 07:29 PM I think if your character does embrace Shar he should strive to understand what makes the other members of the group tick, what and who they care the most about. He can then use the knowledge to manipulate them in such a way as to orchestrate their fall.

Look at Emperor Palpatine for example. He actively placed Anakin Skywalker in situations that would cause him pain, suffering and torment, in situations that were designed for him to be brought closer to the dark side. A Sharran operates largely in the same way. Their actions are subtle when they want to have someone fall into the grasp of Shar.

It's what your DM did to you.
Leukrythus
06-15-07, 10:38 AM Let the Shining Hand lead the way!
The_Wrath_of_Talos
06-15-07, 01:53 PM Yes,

Now turning to the shadow of the moon will make the circle complete, as I may get vengeance and the power to restore order.

One more problem, the Werewolf in my party is a Selunite bard...should i maintain the secret or try to bend his thoughts to Shar?

Hopefully their is a cleric of Shar around that see's you worthy of her power and is capable of casting atonement on you for a proper conversion. Or you may just be setting yourself up for an appointment at the choping block by a rival.
If your lucky and the conversion go's well I'd recomend bumping out the lycanthrope, hes only going to complicate things for you. Besides he's a bard whats he gonna do to a monk? When he shifts he cant perfom anymore and will likely find a silver gauntlet in his face.
Meldread
06-15-07, 06:24 PM If your lucky and the conversion go's well I'd recomend bumping out the lycanthrope, hes only going to complicate things for you. Besides he's a bard whats he gonna do to a monk? When he shifts he cant perfom anymore and will likely find a silver gauntlet in his face.

Nah, just find out more information about the rest of his pack and then secretly send information to Lycanthrope Hunters so that they are all slain. It serves two purposes:

1. It gets the group off the trail of the Dark Moon monks, your secret allies.

2. It gives you the opportunity to manipulate the bard into performing evil acts while achieving vengeance.

To ensure that it goes smoothly inform your new Sharran allies and have them carry it out. Seeing as how he is a Selunite, and the Werewolves involved are likely Selunites as well I am sure they would be more than motivated to do so. The easiest way is to have them capture people and then use starving dogs to rip them to shreds, and then throw the remains in places where it can be found. Then begin spreading rumors of a group of Werewolves on the loose.

If the use of magic would cause a problem (the use of divination and speaking with dead spirits and such), get them to make a pact with Malarite Werewolves to do the killings and plant the blame on the Selunite Werewolves.

The end result should be that the group moves to avenge the death of the Selunite Werewolves (the friends and family of the bard's), giving the Sharran's time to regroup and change strategy, while at the same time using the opportunity to manipulate the bard into falling to the dark side.
The_Shaman
06-16-07, 04:07 PM You know, technically you can be affiliated with neither of the two churches, after all... IF you want to go over, sure thing, but there can be a few reasons not to. Lone wolves are no more amusing to play than renegades.
Zsych
06-17-07, 04:07 AM I wonder how things will go, if Lloth's geas is removed, as the DM may intend to do at some point.
morvegil
06-18-07, 10:02 AM Im not sure...what does happen when a Geas is removed?
The_Wrath_of_Talos
06-18-07, 10:17 AM When a geas is removed you can do as you like once again. You are no longer bound by the rules of the geas.
morvegil
06-19-07, 11:01 AM ITonite I will find out what happens, Im thinking of starting a SHarran Cell and posing as mercenaries...sound liek a viable plan?
morvegil
06-21-07, 10:52 PM SO i became a Dark Moon monk...then i was captured...tortured and given a choice of redemption! I choose to return to the light of Selune.....
Meldread
06-21-07, 11:01 PM LOL. So weak willed! :P

Now the Sharrans are just going to hunt you down.... and they won't likely be giving chances for redemption. :P
Zandilar
06-21-07, 11:17 PM Heya,

SO i became a Dark Moon monk...then i was captured...tortured and given a choice of redemption! I choose to return to the light of Selune.....

And you'll be persued by Sharrans, I'm sure.

You know, deities are not team affiliations that you can change at whim.

There should be serious consequences and repercussions that go along with switching aliegances - especially between such enemies as Shar and Selune.

(BTW: becoming insane is not changing alignments as such, as insanity can be temporary.)

(Also, I'd go read the spell Geas (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasQuest.htm) (which in turn refers to Geas, Lesser (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasLesser.htm)) and learn what it can and cannot do. In the case of Lolth's "you must do something for me at some unspecified point of time in the future" the spell lasts 1 day per caster level - so it has a duration - in Lolth's case, that is 20 days.)
morvegil
06-22-07, 03:32 PM Well my thought is I just earned the trust of the Selunites..muahahaH!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
morvegil 06-10-07, 08:57 PM	I am a Sun Soul MOnk (worshipping Selune). But recent actions and adventuring with my party (who is a mix of chaotic good, neutral good, and chaotic neutral) have caused my alignment to shift to Lawful Neutral (Something about being sent to the AByss then getting a Gias by Lolth). Oh yeah,No Im a Drow with alter self on to look like a human Anyways, so I went from Lawful Good, serioulsy annoying my party, to Lawful Neutral. Now my party likes me better but now they think my monk is slipping to the Dark Side. Right now we are in Sembia and fought off a cell of Dark Moon monks. Then we split up to do shopping errands, I was approached by a Dark Moon master, asking me to join the Monks of the Dark Moon. He showed me the powers I would get (My DM made a prestige class for Dark Moon Monks). What should I do? I already felt the power of darkness by becoming a Drow (Only one guy in my party suspects it). I feel the want for more power now, and since im Lawful Neutral I only care now for upholding the Law!
MerrikCale 06-10-07, 10:33 PM	stick with Selune. She's hotter
Zireael 06-11-07, 06:59 AM	Go to the Dark Moon! And with drow and Lloth... you'll be better.
msatran 06-11-07, 12:30 PM	The hints are already there that your fellow PC's will whack your character if you become a dark moon monk. Since one guy who fights the rest of his party never wins, my advice is stick with Selune and make sure the game is fun for everyone, not just yourself.
Drew1369r 06-12-07, 06:33 PM	stick with Selune. She's hotter being twins that has to be difficult... ;) :P oh well Too the other guy... so far you have done pretty well to hide your identity already being that only one PC only suspects it... see what happens... make it fun for you... and if it becomes to disruptive retire the character or have the DM use it as an NPC antagonist :)
The_Shaman 06-14-07, 09:47 AM	Whichever you think your character would do. Seriously, a LN character is not supposed to change allegiances easily, and such a change would be a treason of the highest order, but if you want to RP a fall from grace, why not? However, keep in mind don't need to be good to venerate Selune, and her relationship with Shar means that sticking by one means bitter war with the other. If you have even a shred of respect for the Moonmaiden or her teachings, I'd say show that misguided fool what you can do. Edit: So your party - a CG, NG and CN party would prefer a LN version of a character over a LG one? Weird.
morvegil 06-14-07, 12:24 PM	Yeah, They were annoyed I was being "good two shoes" all the time. Especially my adverance to getting lots of gold. The real kicker was my character was banished to the abyss withthe dead corpse of my selunite friend. After spending weeks in teh Abyss I failed my will saves and begain to eat the clerics corpse to survive..my character basically went insane as Selune had abandoned him As my DM said "There is no moon anymore"
Alac Luin 06-14-07, 02:11 PM	That actually sounds like a good reason to embrace Shar, and the DM is exploiting this. This can be fun to role play but has the potential to be devastating to the party as a whole or at least to the characters health. Just wondering, do you get along well with the rest of the players out of character? (Can the DM be using a tactic to remove a problem player/ or PC?). I'm not trying to be offensive, but not knowing you, your DM, or the other players I cant know. You don't have to answer publicly, at least ask yourself this. I'd consider talking to the DM away from the other players to see where their mind is at, is he/she trying to find an in-game explanation for the removal of your drow/human monk. If all is well out of character, I'd say this can be a very fun thing explore role playing wise if the other players wouldn't get hard feelings over the in game "betrayal".
morvegil 06-14-07, 04:34 PM	Actual I always talked to my GM about a "fall from grace". So hes actually cool with it, and he actually likes the storyline we can use if I do. Right now people in my party say im going to be the next Darth Vader! lol
Meldread 06-14-07, 05:37 PM	Becoming Lawful Evil does not mean that you have to backstab your friends. In fact reading what I have about your character I do not believe that he would do such a thing. Can you tell me more about the geas placed on you by Lolth? From the tone of your post I gather that you want to embrace the Dark Side - I say go for it. The Dark Moon monks worship Shar, so it is not as if you have to reveal your true nature. Just keep a few things in mind: Is the Dark Moon monk using you to join the order in hopes of you betraying the rest of your group? Is it a serious proposal? Is it something your character would do? If you can answer yes to all those questions I say go for it. Then use the opportunity to slowly begin corrupting the other members of your party, finding ways to cause them to slip toward either neutral leaning evil or out right evil. It is hard to give advice though because I don't know enough of the back story. I like the sound of your DM. I can imagine your character becoming bitter, angry and resentful of Selune for abandoning him and learning to understand why Shar "hates" her sister so much - and embracing her as a result. I am sure loss features heavily in his life as well. I think your DM is making a good move.
morvegil 06-14-07, 06:27 PM	Yes, I like my friends, and part of my "Loss" was a sacrifice for them..I actually took the move that sent me to the plane instead of them. The Gias we have is Lolth will call upon us to do a task, i was transformed by lolth to make sure they do fulfill it. I have a alterself on myself so people still think im human. My character started out as the mother of a prosittue and pirate, and led a life of crime until the Selune temple took me in and I converted to a monk to lead a better life at seeing the Brotherhood take me in. But as I travelled i learned more of the lands and the people, even my own party ridiculed me a bit for helping homeless and giving away 100's of gold to them. But it was the Abyss and the abandonment of Selune in my darkest hour which turned me from the light of the Moon. Now turning to the shadow of the moon will make the circle complete, as I may get vengeance and the power to restore order. One more problem, the Werewolf in my party is a Selunite bard...should i maintain the secret or try to bend his thoughts to Shar?
Meldread 06-14-07, 07:12 PM	Bend his thoughts to Shar definitely. Subtlety is the key and if you do a good job they will never know the truth until after they have all fallen. Here is my view of Shar and her followers from another thread on these forums. A Sharran prospective is something like this: Death for all living things is inevitable. Not even the divine are immune to this, as the time of troubles recently demonstrated. If you live, you will die - that is a certainty. Shar's main objective is to survive long enough to be there at the point when she, her last remaining followers, and a handful of other deities are all that is left. In an ideal scenario, Shar might see the greatly weakened Chauntea, Mystra and Selune as the last remaining deities, having consumed, slain or otherwise removed the others from the picture. A Sharran views the world as an evil thing - full of suffering, pain and loss. Life is an innately evil thing and it is merciful to snuff it out. After all, to live is to suffer and while your life may have its good moments it is ultimately pointless because in the end you will die and be forgotten. Therefore, it is pointless for you to hope and strive to better your lot in life - doing so will only lead to disappointment if you fail, and even if you are successful, you will still die in the end. Shar preys upon the negative emotions of others, and by far most of her followers serve her for this reason. Her followers work to undermine governments and local authorities because when there is less order people are more likely to turn to their baser instincts and emotions, thereby bringing pain and suffering to others, which can then in turn be harnessed to bring others closer to Shar. Shar looks for vengeance because when people turn to vengeance they bring pain and loss into the lives of others. Vengeance creates a cycle that serves to fuel Shar's power. The more you seek it, the more you harm others, and the closer all are brought to Shar. Shar preys upon bitterness because when you are bitter you are less compassionate and willing to help others, thereby allowing pain and suffering to occur around you - allowing others to be brought closer to Shar. Shar preys upon secrets because even a small secret can be manipulated into even greater secrets, until an individuals life is full of secrets and they are living a lie. They turn to Shar to guard those secrets, afraid of what would happen if others uncovered them. In the end, a Sharran views life as one might view a fire. It burns for as long as it has fuel, consuming everything in the process. However, inevitably, even the largest fire will run out of fuel and be snuffed out. Darkness is the natural state, the state from which the world emerged, and when fire (life) is finally extinguished, it will return to that state. It is an inevitable thing. The Sharran who sees this then turns to her for this very reason. After all, if her victory is inevitable do you wish to be on any other side?
Meldread 06-14-07, 07:29 PM	I think if your character does embrace Shar he should strive to understand what makes the other members of the group tick, what and who they care the most about. He can then use the knowledge to manipulate them in such a way as to orchestrate their fall. Look at Emperor Palpatine for example. He actively placed Anakin Skywalker in situations that would cause him pain, suffering and torment, in situations that were designed for him to be brought closer to the dark side. A Sharran operates largely in the same way. Their actions are subtle when they want to have someone fall into the grasp of Shar. It's what your DM did to you.
Leukrythus 06-15-07, 10:38 AM	Let the Shining Hand lead the way!
The_Wrath_of_Talos 06-15-07, 01:53 PM	Yes, Now turning to the shadow of the moon will make the circle complete, as I may get vengeance and the power to restore order. One more problem, the Werewolf in my party is a Selunite bard...should i maintain the secret or try to bend his thoughts to Shar? Hopefully their is a cleric of Shar around that see's you worthy of her power and is capable of casting atonement on you for a proper conversion. Or you may just be setting yourself up for an appointment at the choping block by a rival. If your lucky and the conversion go's well I'd recomend bumping out the lycanthrope, hes only going to complicate things for you. Besides he's a bard whats he gonna do to a monk? When he shifts he cant perfom anymore and will likely find a silver gauntlet in his face.
Meldread 06-15-07, 06:24 PM	If your lucky and the conversion go's well I'd recomend bumping out the lycanthrope, hes only going to complicate things for you. Besides he's a bard whats he gonna do to a monk? When he shifts he cant perfom anymore and will likely find a silver gauntlet in his face. Nah, just find out more information about the rest of his pack and then secretly send information to Lycanthrope Hunters so that they are all slain. It serves two purposes: 1. It gets the group off the trail of the Dark Moon monks, your secret allies. 2. It gives you the opportunity to manipulate the bard into performing evil acts while achieving vengeance. To ensure that it goes smoothly inform your new Sharran allies and have them carry it out. Seeing as how he is a Selunite, and the Werewolves involved are likely Selunites as well I am sure they would be more than motivated to do so. The easiest way is to have them capture people and then use starving dogs to rip them to shreds, and then throw the remains in places where it can be found. Then begin spreading rumors of a group of Werewolves on the loose. If the use of magic would cause a problem (the use of divination and speaking with dead spirits and such), get them to make a pact with Malarite Werewolves to do the killings and plant the blame on the Selunite Werewolves. The end result should be that the group moves to avenge the death of the Selunite Werewolves (the friends and family of the bard's), giving the Sharran's time to regroup and change strategy, while at the same time using the opportunity to manipulate the bard into falling to the dark side.
The_Shaman 06-16-07, 04:07 PM	You know, technically you can be affiliated with neither of the two churches, after all... IF you want to go over, sure thing, but there can be a few reasons not to. Lone wolves are no more amusing to play than renegades.
Zsych 06-17-07, 04:07 AM	I wonder how things will go, if Lloth's geas is removed, as the DM may intend to do at some point.
morvegil 06-18-07, 10:02 AM	Im not sure...what does happen when a Geas is removed?
The_Wrath_of_Talos 06-18-07, 10:17 AM	When a geas is removed you can do as you like once again. You are no longer bound by the rules of the geas.
morvegil 06-19-07, 11:01 AM	ITonite I will find out what happens, Im thinking of starting a SHarran Cell and posing as mercenaries...sound liek a viable plan?
morvegil 06-21-07, 10:52 PM	SO i became a Dark Moon monk...then i was captured...tortured and given a choice of redemption! I choose to return to the light of Selune.....
Meldread 06-21-07, 11:01 PM	LOL. So weak willed! :P Now the Sharrans are just going to hunt you down.... and they won't likely be giving chances for redemption. :P
Zandilar 06-21-07, 11:17 PM	Heya, SO i became a Dark Moon monk...then i was captured...tortured and given a choice of redemption! I choose to return to the light of Selune..... And you'll be persued by Sharrans, I'm sure. You know, deities are not team affiliations that you can change at whim. There should be serious consequences and repercussions that go along with switching aliegances - especially between such enemies as Shar and Selune. (BTW: becoming insane is not changing alignments as such, as insanity can be temporary.) (Also, I'd go read the spell Geas (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasQuest.htm) (which in turn refers to Geas, Lesser (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/geasLesser.htm)) and learn what it can and cannot do. In the case of Lolth's "you must do something for me at some unspecified point of time in the future" the spell lasts 1 day per caster level - so it has a duration - in Lolth's case, that is 20 days.)
morvegil 06-22-07, 03:32 PM	Well my thought is I just earned the trust of the Selunites..muahahaH!