The Knights Templar [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Knights Templar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DHunterOrion
03-03-07, 06:27 AM Was there a canon organization within the Forgotten Realms named the Knights Templar?
I'm planning on creating an adventuring group on a multiplayer server and need to know, if there was it'd require the dm's approval, if not I can do it as I wish.

Anyone know?
Faraer
03-03-07, 06:50 AM No. 'Knights templar' is too vague a term for a polytheistic society -- it just means 'knights of the temple', which (as mentioned in Faiths & Avatars) describes the whole cleric class.
Zanan
03-03-07, 04:42 PM If you can get your hands on the books of the Faiths & Avatars series, i.e. the name-sake book plus Demihuman Deities and Powers & Pantheons, you will find a ton and a half of knightly orders of the various faiths of the Realms. One of the web-enhancements, t'might be Faiths & Pantheons', had a short list of monk and paladin orders too, though much shorter and less specific.
GothicDan
03-04-07, 09:29 PM Hopefully you're not trying to fit the RL 'knightly' organization into the Realms. ;)
MarkusTay63
03-04-07, 10:22 PM Why?, maybe they weren't ALL wiped out by the RC church Dan, maybe they used an artifact from the Temple of Solomon to open a 'doorway' and hide away in a lost and secret place - The Forgotten Realms!

It would be a real kick in the head if either the Holy Grail or the Ark of the Covenant wound up being hidden in FR to keep it's secret safe. :D
GothicDan
03-04-07, 10:26 PM I kind of hate you right now, Markus. ;)
MarkusTay63
03-04-07, 11:08 PM I kind of hate you right now, Markus. ;)It's what I live for, Dan m'lad. ;)

EDIT: Now you're REALLY gonna hate me, I found a (weak) connection -

http://www.veling.nl/anne/templars/mysteries.html
Renvale999
03-04-07, 11:31 PM Why?, maybe they weren't ALL wiped out by the RC church Dan, maybe they used an artifact from the Temple of Solomon to open a 'doorway' and hide away in a lost and secret place - The Forgotten Realms!

It would be a real kick in the head if either the Holy Grail or the Ark of the Covenant wound up being hidden in FR to keep it's secret safe. :D

The Holy Grail, depending on what you believe, could be either the cup or the son/daughter of that messiah guy(I've leaving out the name on purpose). The daughter idea would be cool because she could heal without using divine magic and would worship "The One True God" Could be an interesting twist.

Or I'm just an idiot and all my idea's are lame.

One of the two.:P
GothicDan
03-05-07, 03:28 PM I don't see any kind of connection in the above link...
Stigger
03-05-07, 03:44 PM More conspiracy theory drivel that takes an irrational mind to decipher... ;)
MarkusTay63
03-06-07, 07:51 AM I don't see any kind of connection in the above link...Isn't baphomet worshipped, or at least active in the Realms?

Theres your hook! ;)

Turns out they weren't IN LEAGUE with him, but where actually trying to hide the Holy relics from him. They escaped to a remote secluded monastary secretly hidden way up in the mountains of FR, and have been hiding from Baphomet ever since. They prayed to god, and he placed them in eternal sleep (stasis) until they are needed to protect the artifacts, or such a time when the world is ready for them to return.

Unfortunately, the ToT corrupted the devine magic, and now they age even though they sleep. When the Demon finds them, they will be just a bunch of withered old men...

and it's up to the adveturers to help them and secure the relics! :D
Old Sage
03-06-07, 09:07 AM Baphomet is worshipped in the Realms.
GothicDan
03-06-07, 03:47 PM You act as if the Knights Templar's connections with Baphomet is something new or interesting. ;)

Baphomet is first and foremost tied to the Abyss, not any campaign setting in particular.
Faraer
03-06-07, 03:53 PM It is interesting. In our world, Baphomet is a fabricated propaganda demon, since it's simply a medieval French misspelling of Muhammad. The idea that the Templars worshipped such an idol was probably invented by the French government.
GothicDan
03-06-07, 05:01 PM Okay - THAT is interesting. ;)

And amusing.
Renvale999
03-06-07, 07:54 PM The Knights Templar in the realms could be a knightly order from one of the Unknown Lands, worshipping the "One God" and searching for his "Most Holy Relic" Now, the "One God" doesn't have to be like our God, nor does the "Most Holy Relic" have to be the Holy Grail, but it would be intersting to run this past your players and see if anyone picks up on it.

For my guys, I'd even give out XP for figuring it out.

Again, as I've said many times before, my idea's are usually lame :P
Khaelieth
03-06-07, 08:10 PM We don't need Knights Templar, just invent your own if you like and base it on them (or your idea of what they were like).
BrennonGoldeye
03-06-07, 08:14 PM It is interesting. In our world, Baphomet is a fabricated propaganda demon, since it's simply a medieval French misspelling of Muhammad. The idea that the Templars worshipped such an idol was probably invented by the French government.

Just to be fair, in our world, all demons are propaganda demons. Just for perspective.

Again, as I've said many times before, my idea's are usually lame

They hop rather well ....:w:
Stigger
03-07-07, 06:35 AM Just to be fair, if one is of a religious bent then those demons could be very real in our world... just very good at remaining hidden from scientific eyes. It's a question of what you believe in. ;)
Renvale999
03-07-07, 09:57 AM Just to be fair, if one is of a religious bent then those demons could be very real in our world... just very good at remaining hidden from scientific eyes. It's a question of what you believe in. ;)

Well, and it's the same principle with demons and aliens(stay with me and stop laughing lol).

I once was talking to a friend and he was like "If aliens are so smart, how come they only abduct rednecks and people in the backwater?" I said "Well, who are you more likely to believe, a redneck with no credibility or someone like a senator or Us Attorney?"

My point is, demons usually infest people that live in out of the way places or people that have no credibility (i.e. teenagers and like who could be doing it for attention), but I've seen too many actual exorcisms and the like not think it's real, you can't fake that.
Stigger
03-07-07, 03:14 PM Actually a lot of those exorcisms are perfectly explainable... medically and psychologically speaking at least. Not to say that all of it is, but the great majority of it is explainable. You'd be shocked what you can fake... even more surprised what you can convince yourself of, and get yourself to do though. But aliens are the new demons in case you haven't noticed, replacing them pretty heavily in popular culture. There are tons of cases of reported abduction by demons going back a very, very long time... interesting stuff really.
Tevin Kevlak
03-07-07, 05:11 PM Well, and it's the same principle with demons and aliens(stay with me and stop laughing lol).

I once was talking to a friend and he was like "If aliens are so smart, how come they only abduct rednecks and people in the backwater?" I said "Well, who are you more likely to believe, a redneck with no credibility or someone like a senator or Us Attorney?"

My point is, demons usually infest people that live in out of the way places or people that have no credibility (i.e. teenagers and like who could be doing it for attention), but I've seen too many actual exorcisms and the like not think it's real, you can't fake that.

Sure you can... ever see The Exorcist?
BrennonGoldeye
03-07-07, 08:33 PM Argh, in both worlds it comes down to thought or fear. Choose well.;)
Stigger
03-08-07, 01:54 AM Fear is a perfectly reasonable emotion. Think of it as part of our survival mechanism that's allowed us to get this far. Without fear, you do not have reason to be cautious of the consequences of your actions, and so will likely do some very stupid things... now irrational fear on the other hand is an entirely different kettle of fish...
Zanan
03-08-07, 03:48 AM We've got two tons of knightly orders in the Realms, all with their own artifacts and dreams to chase. No need for one semi-mythic "real life" holy grail chasers to make an appearance. Obviously, if you really need these Milites Templi, make at least sure that you stick to the facts, not the fiction. And I am actually not referring to the Brown guy.
MarkusTay63
03-08-07, 04:33 AM Which means what exactly? I'm trying to find a plausable reason why someone would find a legendary group with quasi-mythical artifacts inside of a fantasy campaign. Where did 'truth' and 'facts' enter into this conversation at all.... :rolleye2:

You act as if the Knights Templar's connections with Baphomet is something new or interesting. ;)

Baphomet is first and foremost tied to the Abyss, not any campaign setting in particular.No, I was simply trying to find ANY REASON WHAT-SO-EVER that they 'might' be in the Realms.

Grasping at straws? perhaps... but they are MY straws and I'm keepin' em. :cool:
Stigger
03-08-07, 06:23 AM I suspect she's referring to their considerably less than goodly and more bloodthirsty borderline psychotic nature as opposed to the rather idealized view history has given them. The detail that they were among the more honorable and civilized crusader orders compared to their contemporaries is a very small one, considering some of the atrocities they committed in their campaigns... speaks more to the savage barbarity of the average crusader rather than of the Templars virtue.

Either that, or she was referring to their actual history as opposed to some conspiracy theory put forward in a very academically incestuous and wholly dubious series of books.

As to your actual take on it... well, you're of course welcome to do whatever you like. :D
Zanan
03-08-07, 12:34 PM Well, I was actually not replying to anyone in particular. :cool:

As with many other things in history, you have to take all information available in and should not shy away from some more radical thoughts or views, whether you accept them later or not is obviously up to you. Regarding the Knights Templar, they are surely shrouded in mystery because of their sudden end - in FRANCE. It's not that they simply vanished all over Europe, as popular media likes us to tell. Though I don't actually want to go into detail in here, as this is not needed. There are no the Milites Templi look-alikes in the Realms. Go and check F&A or P&P for lots of knightly orders, more often than not with good hints on what they are on about. And do not try to project D&D alignment and paladin guidelines back to the Knights Templar or the Teutonic Knights. For every chapter house or cell at any given time will have had good or bad examples of that and one can hardly generalize that for the whole organization during the course of its existence.
Stigger
03-08-07, 02:08 PM Besides, they were a group set up to retake and hold the holy land from the heathen infidels... not many cases of that going on in Faerun... as with a group like with the hospitalers, there just isn't a whole lot of point to them existing in the Realms without open and blatant religious strife going on over real estate.
bayke
03-10-07, 06:55 PM Use the Pious Templar PrC from the Complete Divine and center it around one of the Triad or Helm. There, you have your Knights Templar. Also the Hospitaliar PrC works great with the church of Ilmatar.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DHunterOrion 03-03-07, 06:27 AM	Was there a canon organization within the Forgotten Realms named the Knights Templar? I'm planning on creating an adventuring group on a multiplayer server and need to know, if there was it'd require the dm's approval, if not I can do it as I wish. Anyone know?
Faraer 03-03-07, 06:50 AM	No. 'Knights templar' is too vague a term for a polytheistic society -- it just means 'knights of the temple', which (as mentioned in Faiths & Avatars) describes the whole cleric class.
Zanan 03-03-07, 04:42 PM	If you can get your hands on the books of the Faiths & Avatars series, i.e. the name-sake book plus Demihuman Deities and Powers & Pantheons, you will find a ton and a half of knightly orders of the various faiths of the Realms. One of the web-enhancements, t'might be Faiths & Pantheons', had a short list of monk and paladin orders too, though much shorter and less specific.
GothicDan 03-04-07, 09:29 PM	Hopefully you're not trying to fit the RL 'knightly' organization into the Realms. ;)
MarkusTay63 03-04-07, 10:22 PM	Why?, maybe they weren't ALL wiped out by the RC church Dan, maybe they used an artifact from the Temple of Solomon to open a 'doorway' and hide away in a lost and secret place - The Forgotten Realms! It would be a real kick in the head if either the Holy Grail or the Ark of the Covenant wound up being hidden in FR to keep it's secret safe. :D
GothicDan 03-04-07, 10:26 PM	I kind of hate you right now, Markus. ;)
MarkusTay63 03-04-07, 11:08 PM	I kind of hate you right now, Markus. ;)It's what I live for, Dan m'lad. ;) EDIT: Now you're REALLY gonna hate me, I found a (weak) connection - http://www.veling.nl/anne/templars/mysteries.html
Renvale999 03-04-07, 11:31 PM	Why?, maybe they weren't ALL wiped out by the RC church Dan, maybe they used an artifact from the Temple of Solomon to open a 'doorway' and hide away in a lost and secret place - The Forgotten Realms! It would be a real kick in the head if either the Holy Grail or the Ark of the Covenant wound up being hidden in FR to keep it's secret safe. :D The Holy Grail, depending on what you believe, could be either the cup or the son/daughter of that messiah guy(I've leaving out the name on purpose). The daughter idea would be cool because she could heal without using divine magic and would worship "The One True God" Could be an interesting twist. Or I'm just an idiot and all my idea's are lame. One of the two.:P
GothicDan 03-05-07, 03:28 PM	I don't see any kind of connection in the above link...
Stigger 03-05-07, 03:44 PM	More conspiracy theory drivel that takes an irrational mind to decipher... ;)
MarkusTay63 03-06-07, 07:51 AM	I don't see any kind of connection in the above link...Isn't baphomet worshipped, or at least active in the Realms? Theres your hook! ;) Turns out they weren't IN LEAGUE with him, but where actually trying to hide the Holy relics from him. They escaped to a remote secluded monastary secretly hidden way up in the mountains of FR, and have been hiding from Baphomet ever since. They prayed to god, and he placed them in eternal sleep (stasis) until they are needed to protect the artifacts, or such a time when the world is ready for them to return. Unfortunately, the ToT corrupted the devine magic, and now they age even though they sleep. When the Demon finds them, they will be just a bunch of withered old men... and it's up to the adveturers to help them and secure the relics! :D
Old Sage 03-06-07, 09:07 AM	Baphomet is worshipped in the Realms.
GothicDan 03-06-07, 03:47 PM	You act as if the Knights Templar's connections with Baphomet is something new or interesting. ;) Baphomet is first and foremost tied to the Abyss, not any campaign setting in particular.
Faraer 03-06-07, 03:53 PM	It is interesting. In our world, Baphomet is a fabricated propaganda demon, since it's simply a medieval French misspelling of Muhammad. The idea that the Templars worshipped such an idol was probably invented by the French government.
GothicDan 03-06-07, 05:01 PM	Okay - THAT is interesting. ;) And amusing.
Renvale999 03-06-07, 07:54 PM	The Knights Templar in the realms could be a knightly order from one of the Unknown Lands, worshipping the "One God" and searching for his "Most Holy Relic" Now, the "One God" doesn't have to be like our God, nor does the "Most Holy Relic" have to be the Holy Grail, but it would be intersting to run this past your players and see if anyone picks up on it. For my guys, I'd even give out XP for figuring it out. Again, as I've said many times before, my idea's are usually lame :P
Khaelieth 03-06-07, 08:10 PM	We don't need Knights Templar, just invent your own if you like and base it on them (or your idea of what they were like).
BrennonGoldeye 03-06-07, 08:14 PM	It is interesting. In our world, Baphomet is a fabricated propaganda demon, since it's simply a medieval French misspelling of Muhammad. The idea that the Templars worshipped such an idol was probably invented by the French government. Just to be fair, in our world, all demons are propaganda demons. Just for perspective. Again, as I've said many times before, my idea's are usually lame They hop rather well ....:w:
Stigger 03-07-07, 06:35 AM	Just to be fair, if one is of a religious bent then those demons could be very real in our world... just very good at remaining hidden from scientific eyes. It's a question of what you believe in. ;)
Renvale999 03-07-07, 09:57 AM	Just to be fair, if one is of a religious bent then those demons could be very real in our world... just very good at remaining hidden from scientific eyes. It's a question of what you believe in. ;) Well, and it's the same principle with demons and aliens(stay with me and stop laughing lol). I once was talking to a friend and he was like "If aliens are so smart, how come they only abduct rednecks and people in the backwater?" I said "Well, who are you more likely to believe, a redneck with no credibility or someone like a senator or Us Attorney?" My point is, demons usually infest people that live in out of the way places or people that have no credibility (i.e. teenagers and like who could be doing it for attention), but I've seen too many actual exorcisms and the like not think it's real, you can't fake that.
Stigger 03-07-07, 03:14 PM	Actually a lot of those exorcisms are perfectly explainable... medically and psychologically speaking at least. Not to say that all of it is, but the great majority of it is explainable. You'd be shocked what you can fake... even more surprised what you can convince yourself of, and get yourself to do though. But aliens are the new demons in case you haven't noticed, replacing them pretty heavily in popular culture. There are tons of cases of reported abduction by demons going back a very, very long time... interesting stuff really.
Tevin Kevlak 03-07-07, 05:11 PM	Well, and it's the same principle with demons and aliens(stay with me and stop laughing lol). I once was talking to a friend and he was like "If aliens are so smart, how come they only abduct rednecks and people in the backwater?" I said "Well, who are you more likely to believe, a redneck with no credibility or someone like a senator or Us Attorney?" My point is, demons usually infest people that live in out of the way places or people that have no credibility (i.e. teenagers and like who could be doing it for attention), but I've seen too many actual exorcisms and the like not think it's real, you can't fake that. Sure you can... ever see The Exorcist?
BrennonGoldeye 03-07-07, 08:33 PM	Argh, in both worlds it comes down to thought or fear. Choose well.;)
Stigger 03-08-07, 01:54 AM	Fear is a perfectly reasonable emotion. Think of it as part of our survival mechanism that's allowed us to get this far. Without fear, you do not have reason to be cautious of the consequences of your actions, and so will likely do some very stupid things... now irrational fear on the other hand is an entirely different kettle of fish...
Zanan 03-08-07, 03:48 AM	We've got two tons of knightly orders in the Realms, all with their own artifacts and dreams to chase. No need for one semi-mythic "real life" holy grail chasers to make an appearance. Obviously, if you really need these Milites Templi, make at least sure that you stick to the facts, not the fiction. And I am actually not referring to the Brown guy.
MarkusTay63 03-08-07, 04:33 AM	Which means what exactly? I'm trying to find a plausable reason why someone would find a legendary group with quasi-mythical artifacts inside of a fantasy campaign. Where did 'truth' and 'facts' enter into this conversation at all.... :rolleye2: You act as if the Knights Templar's connections with Baphomet is something new or interesting. ;) Baphomet is first and foremost tied to the Abyss, not any campaign setting in particular.No, I was simply trying to find ANY REASON WHAT-SO-EVER that they 'might' be in the Realms. Grasping at straws? perhaps... but they are MY straws and I'm keepin' em. :cool:
Stigger 03-08-07, 06:23 AM	I suspect she's referring to their considerably less than goodly and more bloodthirsty borderline psychotic nature as opposed to the rather idealized view history has given them. The detail that they were among the more honorable and civilized crusader orders compared to their contemporaries is a very small one, considering some of the atrocities they committed in their campaigns... speaks more to the savage barbarity of the average crusader rather than of the Templars virtue. Either that, or she was referring to their actual history as opposed to some conspiracy theory put forward in a very academically incestuous and wholly dubious series of books. As to your actual take on it... well, you're of course welcome to do whatever you like. :D
Zanan 03-08-07, 12:34 PM	Well, I was actually not replying to anyone in particular. :cool: As with many other things in history, you have to take all information available in and should not shy away from some more radical thoughts or views, whether you accept them later or not is obviously up to you. Regarding the Knights Templar, they are surely shrouded in mystery because of their sudden end - in FRANCE. It's not that they simply vanished all over Europe, as popular media likes us to tell. Though I don't actually want to go into detail in here, as this is not needed. There are no the Milites Templi look-alikes in the Realms. Go and check F&A or P&P for lots of knightly orders, more often than not with good hints on what they are on about. And do not try to project D&D alignment and paladin guidelines back to the Knights Templar or the Teutonic Knights. For every chapter house or cell at any given time will have had good or bad examples of that and one can hardly generalize that for the whole organization during the course of its existence.
Stigger 03-08-07, 02:08 PM	Besides, they were a group set up to retake and hold the holy land from the heathen infidels... not many cases of that going on in Faerun... as with a group like with the hospitalers, there just isn't a whole lot of point to them existing in the Realms without open and blatant religious strife going on over real estate.
bayke 03-10-07, 06:55 PM	Use the Pious Templar PrC from the Complete Divine and center it around one of the Triad or Helm. There, you have your Knights Templar. Also the Hospitaliar PrC works great with the church of Ilmatar.