Post/Author/DateTime	Post
venkelos9 11-06-06, 03:17 AM	Hi. I have this rather powerful baelnorn High Mage whose goal is to reconstitute Myth Drannor. Most feel that the age of mythals, possibly the age of elves, is over, but Quarion Amakiir (http://www.angelfire.com/d20/vaelos/Quarion_Amakiir.html) feels he should accomplish this goal. This involves clearing the ruins of dracoliches, demons, and other things, but the thing I actually want to figure out is the mythal. LEoF gives the rules for forging mythals, at last, and I have written most of what I think I'll want "Myth Neo Drannor" to have, but I was wondering if anyone might know, or guess, what kind of powers the original one had, in a 3.0/3.5 version? In an effort to maintain the memory of Myth Drannor, having some of its powers would be appropriate, but LEoF chose Silverymoon, since it still exists. I don't have the 2nd Ed Cormanthyr stuff, but things change substantially, anyway, so... Anyones input would be very appreciated, and go along way to creating the new mythal. Many elves would owe you their thanks. :D
Green Elven Vampire 11-06-06, 04:15 AM	Myth Drannor has been clensed and is now in the rule of elves from evermeet. Read the trilogy "The Last Mythal" and it's all there.
Jiggawha 11-06-06, 05:46 AM	I don't have the 2nd Ed Cormanthyr stuff Mythal is described here download Cormanthyr (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/2/fr_downloads/tsr1165.zip)
Lord Karsus 11-06-06, 08:30 AM	-Here's what I recommend: 1) Get your hands of Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves 2) Get your hands on The Fall of Myth Drannor 3) Get your hands on the Ruins of Myth Drannor Set 4) Read the Last Mythal Trilogy 5) Cease and desist your plans for "Myth Neo Drannor". -See, five easy steps...
Old Sage 11-06-06, 09:58 AM	-Here's what I recommend: 1) Get your hands of Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves 2) Get your hands on The Fall of Myth Drannor 3) Get your hands on the Ruins of Myth Drannor Set 4) Read the Last Mythal Trilogy 5) Cease and desist your plans for "Myth Neo Drannor". -See, five easy steps...Shame on you LK! You forgot Lost Empires of Faerun. ;)
Lord Karsus 11-06-06, 11:14 AM	Shame on you LK! You forgot Lost Empires of Faerun. ;) -I was just trying to go for 2e sources, plus the novels. But, yes, Lost Empires of Faerûn is also a good source.
Patrakis 11-06-06, 12:12 PM	It saddens me when i see comments trying to discourage fellow realmians from trying an idea that does not follow the line that is proposed in the novels and books produced by WotC. The reference given by Lord Karsus are all good books to give you ideas about Myth Drannor and the power of the Mythals. I don't know where you can get specifics about those powers from the top of my head but i suggest you proceed with your idea if that is what you want for your campaign. What is proposed in the Last Mythal trilogy might give you ideas but don't let the timeline proposed by WotC interfere in what YOU want to happen in your realms (Or use it if you want to and dispose of the current evermeet occupation :)). HAve fun and forget about novels if they interfere with your own ideas. Sincerely Pat
Lord Karsus 11-06-06, 02:09 PM	It saddens me when i see comments trying to discourage fellow realmians from trying an idea that does not follow the line that is proposed in the novels and books produced by WotC. -It is a bad idea because: 1) Future FR Products will have contradictory information, making it harder to utilize said products. 2) Baelnorn are created for specific purposes, to do specific things, and rebuilding Myth Drannor after nearly 700 years is not something I could ever see being "programmed" into them. 3) Myth Neo Drannor is a stupid name. At least make up something better sounding. :P
Zsych 11-06-06, 03:20 PM	In novels, I suggest Elminster in Myth Drannor. He's there at the casting of the mythal, and I think at least some of the powers are described. Stops certain races from entering. Possibly stops non-elves from attacking elves. Mage armor at will for elves maybe. --- Personally I haven't read the Last Mythal series. I personally think it shouldn't have been possible to resurrect Cormanthyr. Hope the author made it suitably hard for them. (wonder how things are with the Nether scrolls... Let someone tell Telamont where they are. Let Ioulaum and Larloch find out somehow... :)) Anyway, without reading the novel, all I can suggest is that venkelos9 rescue Myth Drannor(somehow.. failing might not be a bad idea either), possibly with some minor or major help from that new Coronal, and then give it over to the new Coronal... at Corellon's command, along with all the credit for the achievement :) in return for some divine gift. After all, the masses must have faith in their new Coronal(even if it is faith achieved through lies :D)
longarm 11-06-06, 04:05 PM	Rather than retaking and raising Myth Drannor a new you could consider that there is still quite a huge amount of work for the elves that are there. While it is true that many of the fiends were sent home, there are still Alhoon, phaerim, beholders, and all sorts of other fun things lurking in the depths. I look at the cleansing of Myth Drannor as an on going work that will take years or even decades, with the elves firmly in control of the surface areas (particularly around the Rule Tower) but otherwise having only tentative control. You may also imagine the cormanthyran Drow causing some trouble. -Longarm
Lord Karsus 11-06-06, 04:10 PM	Rather than retaking and raising Myth Drannor a new you could consider that there is still quite a huge amount of work for the elves that are there. While it is true that many of the fiends were sent home, there are still Alhoon, phaerim, beholders, and all sorts of other fun things lurking in the depths. -By the time 1380 DR rolls around, it is stated that the Elves were able to drive out the Phaerimm, the Beholders, the Illithiliches, and all of those kinds of vermin.
longarm 11-06-06, 04:50 PM	-By the time 1380 DR rolls around, it is stated that the Elves were able to drive out the Phaerimm, the Beholders, the Illithiliches, and all of those kinds of vermin. Yeah, but his campaing is probably in 1375 or 1376 no reason not to lend a helping hand :P . -Longarm
Lord Karsus 11-06-06, 04:54 PM	Yeah, but his campaing is probably in 1375 or 1376 no reason not to lend a helping hand :P . -Longarm -No doubt. Routing the entrenched denizens of the ruins is sure to be a monumental task.
Galad 11-06-06, 07:20 PM	I am playing in a campaign that is set in Myth Drannor 1375 and we were hired to help cleanse the ruins. So far it has been a fun campaign and we have gotten to meet or learn about many famous individuals both past and present.
venkelos9 11-06-06, 07:45 PM	First of all, I haven't come up with a real name yet. "Myth Neo Drannor" is a placeholder I was using. No point in naming the city if it never gets finished. I could also see maybe just building a new city and mythal elsewhere in the forest, or elsewhere in Faerûn. Hell, I could use the epic magic to build a Nethese enclave size rock, and construct it in space, with a mythal on it, similar to the one under water. Don't think I'll call it Derris-Kharlan, or Asteroid M, like in Tales of Symphonia or X-Men, but I could do something similar, now couldn't I? Sort of like the Star Elves pocket dimension. As for Quarion, he was made a baelnorn to protect Myth Drannor, before it fell. After it fell, he was devastated for a time, and now he seeks to atone for the fall of the city. Regardless, of any contradictory fluff, it is the story I've been going with forever, and I don't necessarily feel like changing it. I also agree that clearing out Myth Drannor would take ages. A few castings of Tolodine's Killing Wind, or whatever, would go a long way, but even that wouldn't finish it. It's still a goal/dream. That's the whole point of dreams. Usually, they aren't achieved, and thus continue to give us purpose. If he actually completed his dream, he'd have no purpose, and would fade away, and I like my epic high mage NPC. In the end, I just wanted to know if some 3rd ed product of FRCS I don't actually own covered the powers of the mythal there. Maybe the floating Derris-Kharlan rock isn't as bad an idea. It would be very hard for foes to siege it, and if only a few portals led to it, then they wouln't be too hard to guard. I kinda liked Spelljammer's Lionheart Station. Actually seems slightly easier than clearing Mth Drannor out, and there are many forces that would move against a new city before it ever went up. Quarion is undead, so he could function in space, until the rock and environment were stable. Anywho, thanks for all the input, and I look forward to any other comments. I'm strong enough for them, positive or negative, and the negative ones often help more, don't they?
Lord Karsus 11-06-06, 07:51 PM	First of all, I haven't come up with a real name yet. "Myth Neo Drannor" is a placeholder I was using. No point in naming the city if it never gets finished. I could also see maybe just building a new city and mythal elsewhere in the forest, or elsewhere in Faerûn. Hell, I could use the epic magic to build a Nethese enclave size rock, and construct it in space, with a mythal on it, similar to the one under water. Don't think I'll call it Derris-Kharlan, or Asteroid M, like in Tales of Symphonia or X-Men, but I could do something similar, now couldn't I? Sort of like the Star Elves pocket dimension. -Asteroid E. Definitley call it Asteroid E. That city you are referencing is Myth Nantar, by the way. Well, it's a good thing that Myth Neo Drannor isn't the name you were intending to use. If I may be so bold, may I suggest you peruse my dictionary, to select some words, should you wish to rename the city, or simply create your own asteroid. Maybe the floating Derris-Kharlan rock isn't as bad an idea. It would be very hard for foes to siege it, and if only a few portals led to it, then they wouln't be too hard to guard. I kinda liked Spelljammer's Lionheart Station. Actually seems slightly easier than clearing Mth Drannor out, and there are many forces that would move against a new city before it ever went up. Quarion is undead, so he could function in space, until the rock and environment were stable. -You could have the City of Shade as an enemy, perhaps. Something along the lines of, "There's only room enough for one floating city around these parts". You know, that kind of thing.
venkelos9 11-06-06, 11:44 PM	I like to think of my bragging rights (my city flies higher than yours) as keeping Telamont fuming, but plotting, not acting. I don't know if even Shade Enclave can actually launch an attack in space. I also like to think that a city of good elves might be able to attract more aide than a city of evil shades. I'd hope so, anyway. Maybe Myth Yggdrasil will work as a name. Elves like trees, mythical yggdrasil reaches into the heavens, is magical, and so forth. I can think of worse names, and it does sound kinda elven. I might even pull a little Spelljammer, and it could have some ships for protection from space-based attacks. Not sure if i can find a spell to attach to the mythal to manage gravity or air, or just build a gate to EP of Air, and gravity, well, I don't know yet. If it only starts with one gateway, maybe in Leuthilspar, then it can hopefully have time to get established before someone finds a need to attack it. God I feel like Eldar creating a craftworld. Fun!!!
danielmayer 11-07-06, 09:31 AM	edit: snipp most of it. May be a large spoiler, but.... "Last Mythal Triology repairs most of the original Mythal." (no, do not hit me!) In this you should check the sources already mentioned. I would advise "as learned through history": - no anchor. - not corruptible. For the rest: Take the features of Myth Glaurach, written in MoF, afaik. That's enough. Needs to be cast, that new Mythal, after all. And High Mages are such in demand lately... A vanguart "banishment" always comes in handy. And a major power "enhanced maximised heightened protection from evil" ;) searching much paper on the tablethere's some epic spell anywhere here, I know it...
Zsych 11-07-06, 11:59 AM	I still don't get how they freed Cormanthyr. Someone SPOIL me here. Did they do it decently? I wouldn't have thought that all of Evermeet coming would be able to de-infest Myth Drannor. They were after all, forced to run out, at their height. ... Also, it should have been a massive elf/dwarf/human campaign to get it back, not something done by elves alone(FAKE!!!!!! :))
danielmayer 11-07-06, 12:05 PM	Huh... spoiling... ... . . . . . . . . . . .ok. They combined the host of Evermeet with forces from Sembia and had two major fights: Vale of Lost Voices (third party: Baelnorns came in, planned, as they asked them for help and were directed to do the first fight in the Vale) and the outer rim of the Mythal of MD after the enemies' dabbling with it was disabled by an elven-"rogue"-High-Mage. IMHO a little bit too unspectacular, especially no drow forces (two clans should've been in Cormanthor, afaik) and no Cult of Dragons or similar. They had tactical help from an ancient elf-captain from old MD reactivated, so the battlefield was carefully planned. Short, but imho all necessary details ;)
venkelos9 11-07-06, 12:49 PM	Sadly, I don't read novels often, so no, I didn't know that. As for spoilers, I, at least, will never have problems; I've got too many other series to read (Sword of Truth, Wheel of Time, etc.) Heck, if I am babbling long about stuff that's already done, as it appears now I have been, I'd hope that someone would stop me. All I can say is that I didn't know, and that this character was created by me before any such novels were written. Still, thank you for the help, and now I suppose I have just one more reason to forge "Myth Yggdrasil", the space mythal. So, now Myth Drannor is emptied of evils, its mythal reconstituted, and in elven hands? Gee, I wonder how long that'll last. Obould Many-Arrows, or some other orc warlord, will come marching down, or the new Lolth will throw an army of fiends at it, while it's vulnerable. Still, glad to know it was retaken.
Zsych 11-07-06, 01:22 PM	I'm thoroughly annoyed that it was retaken :) (That's our job :)) If the elves were to have a victory, they should have had to honestly defeat all of the forces holding MD. Although one would think that if you could restore the mythal, you would probably be much better off. Phaerimm should've grown stronger with the mythal restored on the other hand. ... And how did the new guy prove himself a worthy Coronal? @venkelos9: I doubt Wizards would let Cormanthyr return only to have it destroyed 2 days later(although that would be quite intriguing, and a rather cool stunt). That should imply that large forces from Evermeet and elsewhere will soon be portal-ing to Myth Drannor to protect it(not that one should really expect a new enemy army immediately unless MD looks extremely weak... after all it had been around a long time till it faced the forces that brought it down) However, the return of Cormanthyr and the like, would be interesting if it was paralled by a return of kingdoms like Netheril and Imaskar(... only stunts like that would effectively end up creating a new CS). They should do an FR 2001 - History repeats itself. A Darker Netheril(with an army of draco-liches), a more good Imaskar(having absorbed Thay). Places like Aglarond still around for amusement but considered worthless backwaters that no one wants to live in. A three way cold war between Netheril, Imaskar and Cormanthyr.. and lets not forget Jhaamdath... also allied with Netheril :) (of course, even older history could repeat itself and we could see a Sarrukh empire rising :))
Alediran 11-07-06, 01:38 PM	Araevin finnish his work in the Mythal by 1380 DR, using the Tree of Souls planted there as the Anchor for it.
Lord Karsus 11-07-06, 03:09 PM	... And how did the new guy prove himself a worthy Coronal? -The new guy is actually a girl, and since she wields the Ruler's Blade, she has to be worthy- or else, she wouldn't have gotten it from the Srinshee.
venkelos9 11-07-06, 04:19 PM	Oh wow, so the Crownblade is back now, too? Damn I feel like such an uneducated dolt for letting stuff I actually care about happen without my knowing. Drizzt Do'Urden isn't the captin of the guard, or anything, is he? :weep: Another question; does anyone know the mechanics of planar gates? Are they the portal rules in FRCS? If I do choose to make my mythal in space, heat, materials, air, and water would all be good to have there, and one way would be to rip off the Imaskari and their portals to Inner Planes. If I can just let heat flow through a portal, and air, and have ready access to water and building stone, without haveing to work them into the mythal, that would be good. Four large gates to the Inner Planes would do fine, if I know how to make them. With only one gate into the city from Faerûn, in Leuthilspar, initial poulation control will be easy. My only problem is gravity and atmosphere. Pretty much, I just have spider climb as a constant power in the mythal, and fly available at will to non-evil beings, so getting around shouldn't be too hard (gravity), but a better way would be nice, maybe. As for air, well, I don't have another idea; the planar gate was it, and I'm not sure how to close in the mythal city. Some giant dome of force, or something? Any suggestions would be great.
Lord Karsus 11-07-06, 08:05 PM	Drizzt Do'Urden isn't the captin of the guard, or anything, is he? :weep: -No, luckily Drizzt is not the captain of the guard. By the time 1380 DR rolls around, he may be dead, for all we know. But, if he ever did show his head around Myth Drannor, he's be killed on the spot. Another question; does anyone know the mechanics of planar gates? Are they the portal rules in FRCS? -That section on Portal Magic in the FRCS is the only helpful thing I can think of concerning portals. If I do choose to make my mythal in space, heat, materials, air, and water would all be good to have there, and one way would be to rip off the Imaskari and their portals to Inner Planes. -You could also have one of the powers of the mythal to be creating, and containing, heat, air, gravity, and all of that good stuff that is neccesary for survival.
venkelos9 11-08-06, 03:20 AM	I had thought of that, but I wasn't exactly sure what level spells to gauge them as, under the prevalent power list. There aren't necessarily spells that do those things specifically, and mythals can get kinda spendy if you misgauge things. (Ha, I'm trying to build a mythal, and I'm whining about costs, LOL) If you, or anyone, would like to correct me, or suggest what level (major, minor, or medium) you would make air, gravity, and heat, I'd be very happy to hear it. Till then, I'll figure out a lesser DC version of Proctiv's Move Mountain, for the base stone, and maybe a Tree of Life, if one might be procured. On a side note, which sounds better to people: a dome of force enclosing the city within, keeping in atmosphere, but allowing view, or saying that the energy of the mythal itself closes it? Otherwise, that would be the world's most expensive glassteel dome.
Alediran 11-08-06, 09:40 AM	-No, luckily Drizzt is not the captain of the guard. By the time 1380 DR rolls around, he may be dead, for all we know. But, if he ever did show his head around Myth Drannor, he's be killed on the spot. Unless he travelled there with his moon elf friends from the Moonwood. And there are already some followers of Eilistraee in Cormanthor that know surface elves (read WotSQ)
Zsych 11-08-06, 12:07 PM	Hmm... a female Coronal.. hadn't quite envisioned that. And apparently the main character of the Imaskari book is also a female. Wonder if WotC is trying to pull in more female players. Don't know about you guys, but pure female heroes rarely seem natural to me. I liked the Simbul book, and mixed teams are usually fine, but in general, a female hero just seems strange to me. (Power hunger, and the destruction most heroes have to cause is supposed to be a guy thing :))
Lord Karsus 11-08-06, 12:34 PM	On a side note, which sounds better to people: a dome of force enclosing the city within, keeping in atmosphere, but allowing view, or saying that the energy of the mythal itself closes it? Otherwise, that would be the world's most expensive glassteel dome. -I think that all encompassing Mythal encircles the city and keeps everyone/everything safe sounds better. Unless he travelled there with his moon elf friends from the Moonwood. And there are already some followers of Eilistraee in Cormanthor that know surface elves (read WotSQ) -If I were the captain of the watch that just happened to stumble upon said Drow, I'd make sure that an arrow was embedded in his head- and I'd do it personally, if need be. "But...but, that Drow was a good Drow, and we are here to vouch for him." I'd chalk their crazy explanation as "Drow tricks". Hmm... a female Coronal.. hadn't quite envisioned that. And apparently the main character of the Imaskari book is also a female. Wonder if WotC is trying to pull in more female players. Don't know about you guys, but pure female heroes rarely seem natural to me. I liked the Simbul book, and mixed teams are usually fine, but in general, a female hero just seems strange to me. (Power hunger, and the destruction most heroes have to cause is supposed to be a guy thing ) -Yes, one of the main characters in Darkvision, Ususi, is a woman. As to everything else you've just said, I'll chalk it up to male chaulvinism, and I'll let everyone else berate you. ;)
Zsych 11-08-06, 12:50 PM	:) It's unfortunate that the sexual equality thing has the simple minded thinking that women are just men with a bit of addition and subtraction in just the external body :) Some things are guy things. Can't even really explain them to women usually. And those women that do seem to think in those ways naturally(as opposed to just copying their dads or their many brothers).... (you should know from experience) ... Still, I suspect I should vanish from this thread now :)
Lord Karsus 11-08-06, 12:56 PM	... Still, I suspect I should vanish from this thread now :) -Good idea. I'll cast an invisibility, and you be on your way. ::Begins waggling fingers in cabalistic gestures, muttering in a long forgotten tongue of magic::
Jiggawha 11-08-06, 02:57 PM	@Zsych I don't understand your ''why female Coronal'' thing, there were already female Coronals, you don't have to be a greatest hero to be a Coronal and probably Starbrow will be her equal, and if he's not a hero then who is, though Ilsevele is a heroine too BTW I've always wondered why human women don't have different ability scores (like -2 to Str, +2 to Cha), it's quite logical to me
GothicDan 11-08-06, 03:10 PM	I could see Elven leaders being females quite easily, since the male vs. female generalities are really no where nearly as delineated are they are among humans. After all, Corellon 'him'self was originally androgynous. And remember that the last heiress of Myth Drannor was female, and no one had a peep to say about that. As to having different ability modifiers for male vs. female humans? It's called living in an overly-PC society. As to the overtaking of Myth Drannor... No. According to all of the older information, there were creatures (multiple) living there that could personally take on Telamont or Malkazid themselves. 40th-level phaerimm, folks. Scary.
Jiggawha 11-08-06, 03:35 PM	As to having different ability modifiers for male vs. female humans? It's called living in an overly-PC society. Just look at any sports world record
GothicDan 11-08-06, 08:21 PM	You're pretending as if truth has any bearing on popular opinion and reactions. ;)
Zsych 11-09-06, 08:56 AM	I don't actually have any objection to a female Coronal(after all Amlaruil seems to be doing just fine). It's the leading forces into battle, and actually wanting battle, that I don't think are normal female attributes, and those who do tend to want them are usually rather dangerous women(not really a good idea to have that class as leaders I'd think). Still, I haven't read the novel so I don't actually know how she was portrayed... and as you say, she's an elf. ... Novel characterizations though should be more human than playing the game is. It was actually the review for Darkvision that got that reaction from me. Usually powerful female wizard hero(with no other character mentioned) has the feel of feminist propoganda to me... As I said, war and destruction feels better when it's left to guys(unless the female character is very interesting).
Lord Karsus 11-09-06, 09:31 AM	BTW I've always wondered why human women don't have different ability scores (like -2 to Str, +2 to Cha), it's quite logical to me -It gets to a point where there are just too many rules.
Zsych 11-09-06, 09:58 AM	Drow women should probably get +1 to Str, probably +2-ish to Cha while in drow cities(and no ability score reductions possibly). Anyway, difference on the basis of sex would have been very simple and would have added little trouble. Except of course, that they wanted the game gender neutral. hmmm... was just watching Ghost in the Shell - Standalone Complex. Nice stuff.
Faraer 11-09-06, 11:41 AM	D&D is a heroic fantasy roleplaying game, not a biological simulator. Women (and men) should get to play female characters on a par with male characters; the percentage of female players would be even worse if they couldn't. (And 'political correctness', in as far as it exists as anything other than right-wing propaganda, had nothing to do with the game design of a right-libertarian wargamer in the 1970s.) Sorting out which sexual dimorphisms are inherent and which are contingent, local cultural forms can be hard. But I don't believe for a second that women are less heroic than men, and moreover, they aren't in the Realms.
Alediran 11-09-06, 01:33 PM	I don't actually have any objection to a female Coronal(after all Amlaruil seems to be doing just fine). It's the leading forces into battle, and actually wanting battle, that I don't think are normal female attributes, and those who do tend to want them are usually rather dangerous women(not really a good idea to have that class as leaders I'd think). Still, I haven't read the novel so I don't actually know how she was portrayed... and as you say, she's an elf. You should try to tell Ilsevele about this and see how she reacts :D
GothicDan 11-10-06, 07:30 AM	D&D is a heroic fantasy roleplaying game, not a biological simulator. Women (and men) should get to play female characters on a par with male characters; the percentage of female players would be even worse if they couldn't. (And 'political correctness', in as far as it exists as anything other than right-wing propaganda, had nothing to do with the game design of a right-libertarian wargamer in the 1970s.) No, but it makes you sort of wonder about the latter design teams, in which there were many cases of very blatant gender differences between both monster races and not-so-monstrous races (the Drow, in which the females and males get radically different statistic modifiers). I'd also personally like applying some basic physiological modifiers according to long-established ethnicities in a fantasy world (or an RPG simulation of the real world). Sorting out which sexual dimorphisms are inherent and which are contingent, local cultural forms can be hard. But I don't believe for a second that women are less heroic than men, and moreover, they aren't in the Realms. Agreed. Though I'm not sure why having a lower Str would make you less heroic. I'd probably give your typical female human a bonus to Dex and Wis over a male. But, those are real life humans - not necessarily those of the Realms, as you said.
Jiggawha 11-10-06, 08:28 AM	I'd probably give your typical female human a bonus to Dex and Wis over a male. But, those are real life humans - not necessarily those of the Realms, as you said. I disagree about the Dex part, Wis maybe (they're more ''down to earth'' - responsible). I'd definitely give Cha bonus
GothicDan 11-10-06, 01:18 PM	I definitely wouldn't give a Cha bonus - but then again, I have problems with anything related to Cha. I think female's 'natural Charisma' would come more from their Wisdom (ability to empathize with others, pick up on emotions, and the reactions of others, and instinctively know how to respond to them). If anything, I would say males would get a Cha bonus, being as Cha has most recently been used as a sort of 'force of personality' and 'confidence' stat. But I wouldn't give ANY Cha modifiers. I hate them. Also, the fact that one's sexual orientation can be used to describe Cha (I've never responded very strongly to a female, regardless of context, emotionally) shows that it's pretty inherently flawed, due to how subjective it is; and thus, it shows that it isn't tied to a specific gender. Rather, I think people you tend to be romantically/sexually attracted to immediately have a 'higher Charisma' to you (or a chance for having a higher one). So, yes, I would totally leave Cha out of any stat-based modifiers for humans. Sure, other stats (Wis and Int) can be subjective, too, but for the most part, there's no trends as to how one would interpret the given stats, whether one liked men or women.
Zsych 11-10-06, 01:33 PM	I think that for 99.9% of all men, a decent looking woman does have a +ve Cha modifier :)
Jiggawha 11-10-06, 01:34 PM	Males? I see how subjective this is, now I understand your view, I have a different view
GothicDan 11-10-06, 02:19 PM	Exactly. :) Hence my great distaste for Charisma. And when we try to apply it in any 'general' sense to genders, the gender you're attracted to is always going to get the higher Charisma in -your- opinion. Also, it's a neurological fact that females do have better fine-motor control than males, while males have better gross motor control and spacial perception. (Completely removed from culture - working with autistic and mentally retarded kids can be surprisingly enlightening.) Either would lend towards a Dex-based bonus in certain situations, if you were going down that route.
Zsych 11-10-06, 02:35 PM	True. As for sexual orientation though. There's the majority view(and thus the generalization), and then there's the other view. As well say that just because some women are stronger than men, that men should not generally be considered stronger than women.
GothicDan 11-10-06, 02:48 PM	The difference is that there is a physically way to quantitatively measure strength, regardless of gender, but there IS no completely (or even remotely) impartial way to give an empirical account of Charisma. The stats aren't based off how things are generally perceived, but rather, statistically, how they ARE. Except, maybe, if one's bisexual. And in that case, neither gender would get a Cha bonus. (Which was sort of my point.)
spadehammerfist 11-10-06, 03:54 PM	I just can't believe you're actually having such a conversation, without the Wiz moderators butting in and telling you that you're being sexist and it's no wonder why so many women don't want to join in our hobby! Is this sort of prejudice just reserved for gender issues or do you have similiar difficulties with racial issues as well? Remember, the whole point of Myth Drannor in the first place was about equality, and the Crownblade would only have come back if that is what it was going to come back to! Plus, we shouldn't really be argueing about the difference between the canon Realms and each campaign's Realms. They are always going to be different by definition. The canon is there for our entertainment and basically so we as DMs and players, don't have to invent everything ourselves from scratch. So if you're not happy with something in canon, don't use it. Moaning about each plot turn in each novel and each piece of fluff in each Accessory is seeing the glass half empty. Use what you like, adapt it as you will, ignore what you want (just make sure the players know which bit you're doing what with - if that makes sense)
GothicDan 11-10-06, 03:57 PM	Welcome, Captain Confused McMelodrama. If a female was offended when I said that she had better fine motor control than the average male, then, frankly, I don't care about her opinion, nor would I care about any male who was offended when I told him that he was stronger than the average female. I'm pretty much equally prejudiced towards anyone who shows signs of irrational dogmatic thought (be it religious, liberal, conservative, idealist, or whatever).
Lord Karsus 11-10-06, 04:52 PM	Remember, the whole point of Myth Drannor in the first place was about equality, and the Crownblade would only have come back if that is what it was going to come back to! -That, or, if someone courted the Srinshee...Whatever happened to that thread? :) -Remember the saying, "Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it". Elves have long lifespans, and long memories. Keeping that thought in mind, apply the quote. -Well, we tried to include Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, and other...'undesireables'. Look at what happened when we did. Well, this time, we'd better keep to ourselves, lest the past repeat itself.
Jiggawha 11-10-06, 05:01 PM	I just can't believe you're actually having such a conversation, without the Wiz moderators butting in and telling you that you're being sexist I don't understand what was sexist, I suggested lower Strengh balanced with other ability scores, which is an obvious fact/truth unless you're an (e.g. exception) female weight lifter from Eastern Europe in times of communism on testosteron (now how's that discriminating, it's a fact)
dragonheart 11-10-06, 11:08 PM	ok we are a long way from the original postings, however, the only measuarble cross cultural dimorphism in humans is a 10% (average) difference in strength. I know a 1 on a d20 is 5% so we often think of 10% as a +/- 2 but remember we are talking a base strength of 10 for all humans - a 10% difference would be +/- 1 and given the ability to continually improve stats even that is really a moot point (and given that adventuring females have lots of possible roles the only place I could really see such nonsense would be the starting strengths - men 3 to 18, women 3 to 17) so it only really has impact when considering a female "tank" going the "bashing warrior" route - one route of many possible - so why bother? As for charisma modifiers - this is where I personally see a bunch of sexisam in some of the posts. yes to most men an attractive woman will tend to get a better reaction thatn either an plain (or ugly) woman or a man. then again for women a handsome man is going to get a better reaction than an ugly or annoying man or a woman so on balance no advantage either way. (and any suggestions that one sex should get an advantage really are sexist here). I can see a DM giving a +1 to a character when dealing with the opposite sex if they do meet certain criteria in terms of either looks, wealth, status, health or "survivability" or otehr traits tht might influence such things as raising a child or carrying one to term.
venkelos9 11-11-06, 05:26 AM	This is why the space mythal will have an airlock. :P I've always been one to figure men and women wouldn't be different enough to get a different number. If a man could lift, say 10 lbs. more than a woman (I just picked at random), then that's still the same Strength score. Also remember in a more medieval setting, the women do plenty of the grunt work, too. They haul heavy buckets, toss hay bails, and herd livestock, just as their brothers do. No, that doesn't cover the Charisma bit, but I don't too much care, lest I throw me out that airlock. Sadly, I don't plan on letting too many "undesirables" in, right away. While it is supposed to be like Myth Drannor (darn novels taking away plot piece), too many other people might do more harm than good. The only gate to it for a while will be in Leuthilspar; I don't see too many humans, dwarves, or others strolling through. Once the city is up and running, and people show a desire to live their, then maybe Quarion will erect another gate, but the city needs to be stable first, lest it fall to the Earth, and wipe out Thay (yeah, what a loss:D ) Also hope that the elves won't miss their Artblade. Hehehehe, but they know where they can find it. (I have a disgusted, sneaky suspicion a novel has already said where it is, too.:weep: , but I will choose to ignore that one.)
Galad 11-11-06, 07:42 AM	The elves can do plenty of damage on their own without the need for humans and other demihuman races around. I think not introducing humans and other demihuman races early on will cause more problems in the long run as the elves will begin to see the city as theirs. Once they see the city as theirs then they will not want to see dirty humans and ugly dwarves in their city, ruining its beauty and all. I think it would be better to get a diverse population to start with, people who have been living with other races all their lives. People from Silverymoon, Berdusk and Waterdeep are used to racially diversity not elves from Evermeet. I really do believe that taking your population from there will cause the same problems that Coronal Eltargrim had with the Opening. In other words the elves will rebel against your baelnorn and try to assassinate him before he can bring in anyone else. Just my opinion though.
Zsych 11-11-06, 10:05 AM	Well.. back to the topic. I wonder what will happen to Myth Drannor, if when this new coronal dies, there is once again, no suitable successor :) btw, do the novels give the Srinshee a decent showing? How the new coronal got the blade should be important enough to be written about(though, I suppose it could also turn up in a seperate novel or in an anthology).
Galad 11-11-06, 10:13 AM	Well.. back to the topic. I wonder what will happen to Myth Drannor, if when this new coronal dies, there is once again, no suitable successor :) btw, do the novels give the Srinshee a decent showing? How the new coronal got the blade should be important enough to be written about(though, I suppose it could also turn up in a seperate novel or in an anthology). Well first off, there could one day be children who would be suitable successors. Second the Srinshee is not in the Last Mythal Trilogy. In the last chapter which occurs several years later, she simply has the Ruler's Blade which is now taking the form of a long slender scepter of platinum.
GothicDan 11-11-06, 10:50 AM	Wonderful trilogy, eh, Zysch? ;) It's currently at the bottom of my stack of novels.
Jiggawha 11-11-06, 11:12 AM	Well.. back to the topic. I wonder what will happen to Myth Drannor, if when this new coronal dies, there is once again, no suitable successor :) Give some time to Ilsevele and Fflar
GothicDan 11-11-06, 12:02 PM	In this case, it would have been even -more- interesting if Fflar had NOT been an Elf, then - a non-pure Elven Coronal Heir!? Zomg!
danielmayer 11-11-06, 02:26 PM	I dont understand the comment: The Rulers Blade never chose along the same clan. It was simple luck. It always chooses the ability to lead the People. So by principle, there`s no need to have "heirs". Given the ambitious elves who recaptured MD, some of them should be good enough to be Coronal. They've plenty of time to rebuild their decadence ;)
GothicDan 11-11-06, 03:51 PM	Ambition is definitely NOT one of the most defining factors of who is to be Chosen by the Blade. And the fact of the matter is that the Irithyls were the ones that ruled as Coronal for thousands of years. To your standard Elf, it may SEEM that they are best to rule, and that heirs SHOULD be present. They're not all as wise or as learned as the Elven High Magi (who created the Blades), after all.
Lord Karsus 11-11-06, 08:17 PM	In this case, it would have been even -more- interesting if Fflar had NOT been an Elf, then - a non-pure Elven Coronal Heir!? Zomg! -If Fflar was not an Elf, I would have simply put the book down upon learning said fact, and not read another Forgotten Realms book for a while...
Galad 11-12-06, 06:03 AM	In this case, it would have been even -more- interesting if Fflar had NOT been an Elf, then - a non-pure Elven Coronal Heir!? Zomg! I think it would have been interesting if Fflar was not an elf but then Lord Miritar probably wouldnt have bothered ressurecting him. Nor would he have married Ilsevele most likely and if they actually did marry, their children would have died if they had tried to draw the Ruler's Blade b/c if I remember correctly only elves may weild the Elfblades.
Lord Karsus 11-12-06, 09:12 AM	I think it would have been interesting if Fflar was not an elf but then Lord Miritar probably wouldnt have bothered ressurecting him. Nor would he have married Ilsevele most likely and if they actually did marry, their children would have died if they had tried to draw the Ruler's Blade b/c if I remember correctly only elves may weild the Elfblades. -You'd think that, being Elfblades and all. But, alas, no any dirty monkey can wield them, according to Lost Empires of Faerûn, so long as the meet the other criteria.
Galad 11-12-06, 10:42 AM	-You'd think that, being Elfblades and all. But, alas, no any dirty monkey can wield them, according to Lost Empires of Faerûn, so long as the meet the other criteria. Well that's just sad since if I remember correctly the Elfblades are older than Myth Drannor. Guess some of the humans should have been allowed to try and draw it after the Irithyl's died. So was it the same in 2e? Would a human who actually have drawn it then become a High Mage since that is what happened when Eltargrim drew the Ruler's Blade?
danielmayer 11-12-06, 07:33 PM	Not older than MD+few decades. They were more or less made *for* MD. According aside from the Warblade, the other two had as prerequisite to have "the best for MD" in the mind of the wielders, or "the good of the People" (Artblade) (in sense). So strictly by the rules (3E!), any race could have drawn the Blades. -aehem- *I* draw the Artblade ;) A human would be the most likely humanoid race who is able to. In 2E, the "elf"-prerequisite was obligatory! It would certainly add to the flavor of the Realms to have some "new ways". MD = Elves. Evermeet = elves. Halruaa = human. etc.etc.etc. It was kind of a new way to have Caladnei as "non-Alea-Dahast-kin" -to-be-wizard in Cormyr. Afaik, all precedessors were related to original Bearauble (far, far, away, to the least). As far as I suspect, more such inconsistencies will arise in the next realms-years. A woman as Coronal - the first time ever. A half-celestial (suspected, afaik) as Spell-Major, ... in my mind, this all adds some flavor to the current time setting. Anyone raised up in this time who travels back in time to old MD will have some not-nice wake-ups: "What? bad feelings only because I'm half-elven?!?!?!" ;) Greetings!
GothicDan 11-12-06, 07:59 PM	Fflar was NEVER supposed to have been an Elf. Ever. His race was ALWAYS open, to represent the dream of Myth Drannor being not an ELVEN nation, per se, but rather a place of harmony started by the Elves. It was not supposed to be Elf-Land. That's Evermeet.
miscellany 11-13-06, 12:19 AM	The lack of a SPOILER tag in the second post really sucks ass. Way to ruin the surprise for me and a whole bunch of other people, jerk. 1) Future FR Products will have contradictory information, making it harder to utilize said products. 2) Baelnorn are created for specific purposes, to do specific things, and rebuilding Myth Drannor after nearly 700 years is not something I could ever see being "programmed" into them. Crap and crap, in that order. Campaigns can veer off into any number of directions. Future sourcebooks aren't the issue since they aren't more important than the campaign at hand. But I don't know....maybe there are people out there who balance campaign goals against how much money they want to be able to give WotC. :rolleyes: Who says Baelnorn can't over time come to a new purpose or even tire of their original purpose? If it's a good story line and makes for good fun then go for it. I'd go so far as to say Baelnorn might elect to come together to rebuild Myth Drannor in some ghostly fashion if they found over the centuries that singular guarding just wasn't working. So they pool their resources, manipulate others <adventurers> and get the job done. The adventure Pool of Radiance: Attack on Myth Drannor has some almost up to date information on the mythal. Tower Records died. Rasputin prospered. Coincidence? I think not.
venkelos9 11-13-06, 12:59 AM	Thank you for supporting my existence. It's hard to exist for 1801 years (as of 1374 DR) as is. As for the Elfblades, I suppose I can live with the fact that non-elves can use them, as the Baneblades of Demron were also made for MD, and they were for mostly non-elves, too. They seem to mostly care about people who care strongly for Cormanthyr, and that says elves to me, but if you grew up there, and loved its ideals and peoples, I guess your race becomes irrelevent. Just so long as no one non-elven-blooded comes along and uses my moonblade after my final passing, as I know for a fact that I have no children/descendants, so they won't, and it has always been in my family. Thankfully, being a Chosen of Corellon allows me to use it, even undead. I just assumed Fflar was an elf; it stood to reason for me. Granted, my total of knowledge is my FRCS books of RPG; no novels. With a name like Fflar Starbow Melruth, which sounded elven to me, and the fact that he'd have been banished from Cormanthyr after stuff, despite defeating the last of the Trio Nefarious, since Cormanthyr was closed to non-elves. Still, if I'm wrong, it also isn't immensely important to me. Making my Myth Yggdrasil in space is; if I can just find some skilled elven and dwarven craftsmen to construct dwellings for the various races that will live there, assuming I ever build it, and don't get laughed off the table.
Lord Karsus 11-13-06, 10:28 AM	The lack of a SPOILER tag in the second post really sucks ass. Way to ruin the surprise for me and a whole bunch of other people, jerk. -There should have been an SBLOCK, but all of that information is hardly brand new. It was first made public in Powers of Faerûn, which came out like what, February, March? Sometime much earlier this year. Campaigns can veer off into any number of directions. Future sourcebooks aren't the issue since they aren't more important than the campaign at hand. But I don't know....maybe there are people out there who balance campaign goals against how much money they want to be able to give WotC. :rolleyes: -If you read what I said a little closer, maybe you would have understood what I mean. I'll reiterate myself. Future Forgotten Realms novels, adventures and sourcebooks will be treating Myth Drannor, as of 1380 DR a city free of all of the malignant powers that have been festering there for so long. This will make it more difficult to run a campaign that relies on FR materials, being that as more time passes, the rift between your campaign and what is actually happening in the area is going to get bigger and bigger. Who says Baelnorn can't over time come to a new purpose or even tire of their original purpose? If it's a good story line and makes for good fun then go for it. I'd go so far as to say Baelnorn might elect to come together to rebuild Myth Drannor in some ghostly fashion if they found over the centuries that singular guarding just wasn't working. So they pool their resources, manipulate others <adventurers> and get the job done. -There are different three types of Baelnorn: Watchnorns (for lurking observers and lesser guardians of public places or family lands, especially Castle Cormanthor), Lorenorns (for those choosing to act as tutors, librarians, or merely students of Art beyond their normal span of years), Guardnorns/Wardnorns (for powerful guardians of crypts and other secret places or as the sole protector of particularly powerful items). Baelnorn are created for these specific purposes, and can hardly become derelict in their duties because they feel like doing something better. Yes, they do have sentience, and soverignty over themselves, but when has there ever been a case of when a Baelnorn simply shrugged it's duty to do something else. Now, if commanded by the Seldarine or something, it's possible to work out in a campaign. Tower Records died. Rasputin prospered. Coincidence? I think not. -Tower Records still hasn't died. They're still in the process. But, I definitley see Rasputin's meddling hand in their fall. No doubt...
Lord Karsus 11-13-06, 10:32 AM	I just assumed Fflar was an elf; it stood to reason for me. Granted, my total of knowledge is my FRCS books of RPG; no novels. With a name like Fflar Starbow Melruth, which sounded elven to me... -As did I. I would have taken it as a personal affront if Fflar were not an Elf. I'm still with those conservatives, who think that Eltargrim was a kook.
Galad 11-13-06, 10:40 AM	-As did I. I would have taken it as a personal affront if Fflar were not an Elf. I'm still with those conservatives, who think that Eltargrim was a kook. Well considering the name the elves came up with for you, I would not at all be surprised if you were against all of them.
Lord Karsus 11-13-06, 10:54 AM	Well considering the name the elves came up with for you, I would not at all be surprised if you were against all of them. -Ever since my 'accident', I've been a whole new Archmage. As all of that divine power was welling in my brain, I had an epihany. Elves are the way to go...:thumbsup:
venkelos9 11-13-06, 11:48 AM	I suppose I will explain the back history of the baelnorn, and if it doesn't help, then I don't too much care, because I got to write about one of my favorite original characters. Quarioun was born around -427 DR, in Evermeet. In his life, he chose wizardry as his vocation, and was present at the creation of Myth Drannor; his mentor was one of the High Mages who erected the mythal, but Quarion was not powerful enough to participate. Later, he accepted baelnorndom to protect the great dream his teacher had told him so much about; if he could not help make it, he would help make it last. As one of the several baelnorn defenders of the city, he fought against the Army of Darkness, but when the city fell, he had failed. He was trapped in rubble, but later freed himself. He knew he couldn't save Myth Drannor now, and it only got worse in the future, so he returned to Evermeet in shame. Later, he had a vision of rebuilding Myth Drannor, and that is what he devoted his energies to. The other elves did not exactly support his goals; "the time of mythal cities was over". So, without other's support, he has had to work alone, and thus not managed yet. Of course, I am playing as of 1374, so his goal hadn't been achieved, or cheated, but I can certainly accept that novels surpassed my sloth-speed. I figured that, if Myth Drannor has been saved, I will build a similar mythal elsewhere; no point in wasting the research, and if Myth Drannor's rebirth is short-lived, then Myth Yggdrasil might be a good backup. If Quarion's backstory doesn't fit your template for how baelnorn work, then I'm sorry, but he's one of my favorite characters, and I don't really plan to change him anytime soon. Maybe after he does create my orbiting mythal, he will meld with it, or journey to Arvandor, at last, but I need a good plot in my own story to arrange that and I don't run epic D&D to often, anymore.
Galad 11-13-06, 02:14 PM	-Ever since my 'accident', I've been a whole new Archmage. As all of that divine power was welling in my brain, I had an epihany. Elves are the way to go...:thumbsup: An epiphany huh? Works for me. I love elves!
longarm 11-13-06, 07:44 PM	Fflar means True Valor. It was a "nickname" given the person who retrieved Keryvian. -Longarm
Lord Karsus 11-13-06, 08:52 PM	Fflar means True Valor. It was a "nickname" given the person who retrieved Keryvian. -Longarm -Indeed, it does. I'm surprised I never picked up on that. Gotta add that to the Dictionary...
ClobberinTime 11-21-06, 01:35 PM	I have been going over some of the stuff in Ruins of Myth Drannor and LEoF, one thing I'm not sure of is that the Warblade specifically doesn't require an elf to wield it. In LEoF it certainly reads like it. From memory it says something like: If an elf is found unworthy it springs up and attack him/her.........blah blah blah..........If the attempted wielder is a non-elf or is evil etc... etc... it attacks him. The text for the other two blades is more vague on this, so maybe it just is the Warblade. On Fflar, for some reason I always thought he was a 1/2 elf (although I agree that it is left open in all of the 2e stuff), its pretty clear that he was some middling officer in the military of cormanthyr and was quite young, but earned alot of levels and glory in the weeping war.
danielmayer 11-27-06, 10:21 AM	Fflar: Somwhere stood that he returned from Semberholme where he was stationed not long before the Fall. And there and in the Ak'Vehlar he was a highly respected swordsman and lieutenant. He was more or less unknown in MD even during the Fall. After that sources states, that he *was* respected, he indirectly can't have been an 1/2-elf.... Anyway, I saved him in EOBIII from eternal haunting some mausoleum :) Greetings /edit: So says "Cormanthyr - Empire of Elves" on page 92: Probably the most celebrated instructor of the School of Arms is Captain Fflar of Myth Drannor. Fflar came to Semberholme with his wife to give birth to their first child in the Year of Seven Stones (335 DR), remaining for eight years before returning to the City of Song. Since then, prominent students of the school have be referred to as “Fflarrens,” tribute to the most skilled instructor to walk its halls. - ok, has been in MD some more years before the fall.... BUT: He had to be of full elven heritage, else he wouldn't have got access to Semberholme.. AND: He wasn't that young anymore: The Fall was in 714 DR...
Galad 11-27-06, 05:26 PM	Sorry double post
Galad 11-27-06, 05:28 PM	I have been going over some of the stuff in Ruins of Myth Drannor and LEoF, one thing I'm not sure of is that the Warblade specifically doesn't require an elf to wield it. In LEoF it certainly reads like it. From memory it says something like: If an elf is found unworthy it springs up and attack him/her.........blah blah blah..........If the attempted wielder is a non-elf or is evil etc... etc... it attacks him. The text for the other two blades is more vague on this, so maybe it just is the Warblade. On Fflar, for some reason I always thought he was a 1/2 elf (although I agree that it is left open in all of the 2e stuff), its pretty clear that he was some middling officer in the military of cormanthyr and was quite young, but earned alot of levels and glory in the weeping war. Actually it does say that only elves can weild any of the three blades under blade rituals. It also says that if an elf is found unworthy or if any nonelf attempts to draw it, it rises up and attacks them for 1d6 turns (which means in 2nd ed up to 1 hour). Page 155 Empire of the Elves if you want to look it up.
ClobberinTime 11-29-06, 03:54 PM	Yeah that is what I had thought too. Typically elven, I say, you say the city is open to all and all will be treated as equals but then disallow the three most powerfull roles in the community to anyone who isn't an elf. Myth Drannor never was intended to be truly integrated, the humans and others could live there under elven rule if they wished, but would never and can never be full fledged citizens until someone fixes those three blades. For my money Silverymoon is the real deal in this context, :)
Alediran 11-29-06, 04:04 PM	That is because the swords where made for Cormanthor, a kingdom that was only elven for the most part of it's existence. An elven coronal is better than ten human kings, because the coronal is chosen by the Ruler's Blade, this means that you'll have a good ruler for many centuries, while humans, living only mere decades could cause too many complications when one of them died of old age (even an extended life thanks to the Ruler's Blade).
ClobberinTime 11-29-06, 05:52 PM	Bha, more pro elvish posturing, I'm sorry we can't improve your lot because these special swords determine our ruler and were made when only elves were here, so sorry no, no representation. The only way to remedy it is to make the new government have nothing to do with those damned swords! However it is my guess that the next set of novels that involve the refounding of Myth Drannor will focus on a human character who gets chosen by one of the blades, probably the spell blade or the war blade.
Galad 11-29-06, 06:32 PM	Bha, more pro elvish posturing, I'm sorry we can't improve your lot because these special swords determine our ruler and were made when only elves were here, so sorry no, no representation. The only way to remedy it is to make the new government have nothing to do with those damned swords! However it is my guess that the next set of novels that involve the refounding of Myth Drannor will focus on a human character who gets chosen by one of the blades, probably the spell blade or the war blade. First off they would have to recover one of the other blades. Second off in the description of the blades the ritual will only accept an elf, non-elves are not accepted by the sword and something bad happens to them (the Warblade for instance rises up and attacks them). Next Myth Drannor deserves to be ruled by elves. It is after all their city, all other races were invited to live there in the hopes that they could live in peace with the elves. They were not invited to come in and take over leadership of the city. The city still belongs to the elves and should still be ruled by the elves. I would say that they should open the city once more to other races but not until it is firmly in the hands of the elves.
ClobberinTime 11-29-06, 09:13 PM	Yeah you are right, the elves can't hardly tolerate being around anybody cept their own kind, and after all they are the ones that made it into a ruin anyways, so they should have to clean it up too. That should take them a bit though well with all the portals and planar rifts and such about. If you can't take the heat well you know, run off to Evermeet or something. You know who should re-found the city? The Dwarves, that damned army of Darkness couldn't have taken out no Dwarfhold, no way, Nycaloths are only like Cr-13, them Hammers o Moradin do be would laid the smackee on em. :)
GothicDan 11-30-06, 01:37 AM	If a city with multiple Epic level Wizards in it couldn't defeat the Army of Darkness, I doubt any number of Dwarven Fighters, regardless of level, could. ;)
danielmayer 11-30-06, 02:41 AM	Hi! 1) The Artblade in LEoF does *not* have the elf-prerequisite. It clearly states, that it chooses the one who has only the best of the People & Cormanthyr in mind. May even be a dwarf. 2) The elven epic wizards mostly have left MD when the Weeping War began. The 2E FoMD states, that many strong users of the Art left because one diviner foresaw the doom. So they took many spellbooks, scrolls, etc. from MD to safer places. If you look the timeline of the war, not many strong spellcasters are mentioned. Symrystar, Alea Dahast, Josidiah Starym, ... I don't remember the Seven Wizards? All the nice wizards from Windsong Tower? Even the names of the high court mages I didn't see. Combining all, I would even say that not even one High Mage has been present, cowards as they are... :pbbbtt: 3) I even think, the 3E material in LEoF allows non-elven-Coronals? The Rulers blade doesn't enhance age by %, but by +-700 years fix. Would be nice for a suitable human coronal ;)
Ramenth 11-30-06, 02:55 AM	Getting vageuly back on topic..... I'm sure the elves think they've cleared out all the Phaerimm and the like from Myth Drannor. Does that mean they have? No. Ofcourse not. Phaerimm are Trixxy.
Alediran 11-30-06, 08:51 AM	Hi! 1) The Artblade in LEoF does *not* have the elf-prerequisite. It clearly states, that it chooses the one who has only the best of the People & Cormanthyr in mind. May even be a dwarf. 2) The elven epic wizards mostly have left MD when the Weeping War began. The 2E FoMD states, that many strong users of the Art left because one diviner foresaw the doom. So they took many spellbooks, scrolls, etc. from MD to safer places. If you look the timeline of the war, not many strong spellcasters are mentioned. Symrystar, Alea Dahast, Josidiah Starym, ... I don't remember the Seven Wizards? All the nice wizards from Windsong Tower? Even the names of the high court mages I didn't see. Combining all, I would even say that not even one High Mage has been present, cowards as they are... :pbbbtt: 3) I even think, the 3E material in LEoF allows non-elven-Coronals? The Rulers blade doesn't enhance age by %, but by +-700 years fix. Would be nice for a suitable human coronal ;) !) It's a typo error, by simple logic the Artblade only accepts elves as it's wielder because the other two don't accept N'Tel'Quessir 3) The Ruler's Blade is only for elves, there is a reason they are named ELFblades. Getting vageuly back on topic..... I'm sure the elves think they've cleared out all the Phaerimm and the like from Myth Drannor. Does that mean they have? No. Ofcourse not. Phaerimm are Trixxy. With the Mythal restored by 1380 DR, no Phaerimm can enter Myth Drannor.
ClobberinTime 11-30-06, 02:26 PM	Phaenrim have access to the Weave Mythal spell and so can circumvent the Mythal should they wish. The elves will need help in taking out the Phaenrim because they are too weak to do it themselves, maybe if they ally with the shadovar it might happen though, and then Hadrhune can become the Spell-Major. Thats their best hope.
Jiggawha 11-30-06, 02:48 PM	Phaerimm, they are exterminated Hadrhune can be a Spell-Major? LMFAO
Alediran 11-30-06, 02:59 PM	Phaenrim have access to the Weave Mythal spell and so can circumvent the Mythal should they wish. The elves will need help in taking out the Phaenrim because they are too weak to do it themselves, maybe if they ally with the shadovar it might happen though, and then Hadrhune can become the Spell-Major. Thats their best hope. The new Mythal was reinforced by Araevin using the Tree of Life planted in Myth Drannor with the idea that only good elves could make changes to it, to avoid things like the corruption of Myth Glaurach and Myth Drannor's Mythals by outside forces. The Phaerimm where destroyed in Return of the Archwizards. And the elves would never ally with Shade, after the destruction the wrought in RotAW. Plus, they don't need them to deal with Phaerimm, they have Galaeron and Vala, who is an Elf Friend, with the Darkswords they wield to do it.
ClobberinTime 11-30-06, 04:59 PM	Alls I am saying is that with a high enough use magic device check that mythal is going under. Arevin is like what 21st level, any old phaenrim can whollop his spellcraft check, and then bang bang no more Mythal. Elven magic is just too weak, too weak.
Lord Karsus 11-30-06, 05:40 PM	-Hadrhune the Spell-Major....:rolleyes: -Well, at least Hadrhune was an Elf...
venkelos9 02-16-07, 10:47 PM	I'd bet that, if the Phaerimm were going to be a BIG problem, the Elves might just invoke the avatar of any of several gods, and kick the crap out of the flying teeth-cones. On a different note, it seems I will get to use my Myth Yggdrasil in my next game, with its primary portal-entrance in Silverymoon. It's a powerful city, held by the forces of Good, and not likely to fall anytime soon. Seemed better than Evereska. Thanks folks for the assistance.
ElberethSilverleaf 02-16-07, 11:31 PM	I like the back history of your character being a fan of elves myself. :) Did you create the character for a high powered campaign or is he a product of years of roleplaying? Also does the DM have a hard time coming up with challenging scenarios for epic level characters? I've been both a player and DM and never had the chance to be in an epic level campaign so I'm curious.
shamanphenix 02-17-07, 04:28 AM	The new Mythal was reinforced by Araevin using the Tree of Life planted in Myth Drannor Am I stupid ? I was thinking that the Tree of life was on the way in order to be planted on a northen island ??? I think that comes from the novel "Eternelle-rencontre, berceau des elfes" (sorry, I don't know the original title, only the traduction I have read :) ). What's the true version please ?
venkelos9 02-17-07, 01:25 PM	I like the back history of your character being a fan of elves myself. :) Did you create the character for a high powered campaign or is he a product of years of roleplaying? Also does the DM have a hard time coming up with challenging scenarios for epic level characters? I've been both a player and DM and never had the chance to be in an epic level campaign so I'm curious. Humorous thing; he was originally created as a mid-level plot bit in my first 3E game, and he kinda grew a life from there. He got boosted for a movie plot I had to write in college, and is now a powerful High Mage. Sadly, he can't claim much in the way of in-game development, sorry. He's more of a me acting as an author than as a gamer. As for challenges, I usually like epic, but yeah, challenging scenarios are usually hard to manage. You either have to throw obscene, epic beasts (I hate Thorascids, personally), or it's not too hard for them to pwn any threat. I find that in-game demiliches are just as uber as that in the Neverwinter series, but I dislike using them, even with my obsession with liches. I've considered trying a dragon-character game sometime, and then I'll like some epic creatures better, as firepower. Epic has a good bit of room to be fun, but it usually becomes over-specialized, or too hard/easy. As for Quarion, he's currently written up more for the "powerful NPC-support role", like many FR epics. Alustriel sits in her mythal-city, guarding it, and taking part in a few rare uber-evil fights, Khelban "Blackstaff" does similar in Waterdeep, and Quarion guards his little jewel in space for the time being. If all goes well, he might even fade away soon (that's what successful baelnorn do, I suppose). Any other questions, please feel free. :D
danielmayer 02-19-07, 12:51 PM	!) It's a typo error, by simple logic the Artblade only accepts elves as it's wielder because the other two don't accept N'Tel'Quessir 3) The Ruler's Blade is only for elves, there is a reason they are named ELFblades. Huh, IMHO, as long-lived mage and sage, would say: - They are *named* Rulers' Blade, Artblade and Warriors' Blade/Warblade (in their elvish names). - They are "nicknamed" as "The Three Elfblades", maybe only because they were worn by elves some thousand years. 2E said for each blade, only elves may wield them. 3E only for the Warriors' Blade. I would like to interpret this: As usual, I don't have the sources here at work, but I recall the 2E-Sources, that the High Mages made them for protecting Cormanthyr, not for to be wielded by elves. After all, in that time only elves were living in Cormanthyr... The question "who may draw it" (by race) simply did not rise. The description about their creation did mention the tests of mind and soul, but not of race. This should really be enough to "allow" non-elvish wielders in any campaign. Other try of explanation: Eltargrim/Srinshee spoke of the dream to unite the races of wood, rock and earth, or something like that (LEoF, afaik). For me this sounds like elves, dwarves, *humans*, etc. - never had a chance to clear that ;) In fact, there's no logical reason, why the realm should be open to anyone, but only elves may rule - this is not what Eltargrim stood for. And, after all, there were/are only four wielders of the Rulers' Blade since it´s creation: Granddaddy, Daddy and Eltargim - and now the young lass. The Warblade has gone through many more hands, but has not been seen since ca. -400 DC. The Artblade had only few wielders, too, and nearly all before the Opening. So - being an optimistic DM - it may just be a asumption that they may only be worn by elves, given by history.:duel: To be honest, I wait in dire need for the "canon" sequels to the Last Mythal Triology, or any other source, how the two missing blades will be reclaimed and by whom (!). We have to wait... - summarizing: may the rules state what they want: given the historical backgrounds and facts of their creation, I would allow all three blades to non-elves. - those rulebooks never have been clear and correct in every way ;)
Lord Karsus 02-19-07, 05:10 PM	Am I stupid ? I was thinking that the Tree of life was on the way in order to be planted on a northen island ??? I think that comes from the novel "Eternelle-rencontre, berceau des elfes" (sorry, I don't know the original title, only the traduction I have read :) ). What's the true version please ? -Richard Baker made a big, big, BIG, BIG boo-boo. He never bothered doing research, so he forgot that the Tree of Souls was with Prince Lamuril, to be planted in his Elven Realm in the north. He thought it was planted on Evermeet, which enabled Amlauril to give the sapling to Saeveril and the Crusade. -Basically, he really messed up the continuity of the Realms, shrugged his shoulders, and said, "Oh well..." :mad:
venkelos9 02-19-07, 11:30 PM	Never thought it would really be so big an issue, the Elfblades. I've heard of moonblades as refered to as elfblades, then there's the three "Elfblades". As for me, the three blades and moonblades have a commonality; elves/half-elves only (in my games, at least, they would be). If you really want blades that can be used by non-elves, some folks forged the Baneblades of Demron for the other races, sort of. As for the Artblade, Warblade, and Ruleblade, I suppose it comes down to the GM. How do you want to interpret their fluff? I'd say the elves created them for themselves. If other races left the group that was united Cormanthyr, they just left, but the elves created the group, and had the greatest reason to keep the group together. Cormanthyr also sttod in Elven land, so they had the greatest need to protect the physical site. :D And there I babbled off.
Lord Karsus 02-20-07, 09:15 AM	-Don't forget Cormanthyrian Elfblades! :P -Those are just simple Keen Longswords, forged by some of the elder Sun Elf clans earlier in the history of Cormanthyr.
venkelos9 03-01-07, 12:01 PM	Hey folks, I have a new question. I was thinking of incorporating a Tree of Life into the mythal of my mythal-city, maybe even make it be an anchor for the spell, and I was wondering if anyone might know what one might do/need to do to get a for real Tree of Life, as well as what they do in 3.0/3.5? Sadly, elves being my favorite thing aside, I still don't know. I guess this will also show if anyone is reading my thread^^
Lord Karsus 03-02-07, 01:01 AM	Hey folks, I have a new question. I was thinking of incorporating a Tree of Life into the mythal of my mythal-city, maybe even make it be an anchor for the spell, and I was wondering if anyone might know what one might do/need to do to get a for real Tree of Life, as well as what they do in 3.0/3.5? Sadly, elves being my favorite thing aside, I still don't know. I guess this will also show if anyone is reading my thread^^ -Well, to put it bluntly, you can't. There is (technically) only ONE Tree of Life, and it is in the possession of Prince Lamuril. As I mentioned in my last post, Richard Baker made a huge mistake by thinking that the Tree of Life was still Evermeet, and created a "sapling", to be placed in Myth Drannor. -Two points. Firstly, there is supposed to only be ONE Tree of Life. Secondly, it really isn't supposed to "bud", and reproduce. That said, it is your campaign, so you can do what you want.
venkelos9 03-02-07, 11:00 AM	Hmm, I would've sworn that they were just rare, kind like "minor" artifacts, not a unique thing (maybe it's from 2E). Well drat. Oh well, either I'll do more research, and also learn what benefits one/it would offer, or pick something else. Since Yggdrasil is the World Tree, or the Tree of Heaven, I hoped that Myth Yggdrasil could have a Tree of Life, but without tearing fluff to heck. Maybe some other tree-like object can take it's place.
Lord Karsus 03-02-07, 11:01 AM	Hmm, I would've sworn that they were just rare, kind like "minor" artifacts, not a unique thing (maybe it's from 2E). Well drat. Oh well, either I'll do more research, and also learn what benefits one/it would offer, or pick something else. Since Yggdrasil is the World Tree, or the Tree of Heaven, I hoped that Myth Yggdrasil could have a Tree of Life, but without tearing fluff to heck. Maybe some other tree-like object can take it's place. -Maybe you can somehow take a piece of the actual Yggdrasil?
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-02-07, 06:41 PM	Female Coronal, female Imaskari, and female Blackstaff. The Realms is becoming a she women man haters club. Or some games designers really need a date! Is the new Coronal at least an Elf?!?!? Oh dear Gods!:OMG! Spelljammer rears its ugly head. :nonono: I was thinking of making Capitan Kirk the new Cornoal of my fleet of Spelljammer vessels! yuk:looloo:
Lord Karsus 03-02-07, 08:11 PM	-LLKN, really, if you don't have anything useful to contribute, then it's better not to say anything. -Anyway, to further go on about what I said before, perhaps you can somehow "pull off" a branch of the World Tree, and bring it to your city. Theoretically, you could have it finagled to Yggdrasil itself, making your city a stop on it's many branches, and allowing others in your city to transport themselves iva the tree. Hey, why not?
BrennonGoldeye 03-02-07, 08:56 PM	Hmm, I would've sworn that they were just rare, kind like "minor" artifacts, not a unique thing (maybe it's from 2E). Well drat. Oh well, either I'll do more research, and also learn what benefits one/it would offer, or pick something else. Since Yggdrasil is the World Tree, or the Tree of Heaven, I hoped that Myth Yggdrasil could have a Tree of Life, but without tearing fluff to heck. Maybe some other tree-like object can take it's place. From Elves of Evermeet "most powerful and valuable of all elven artifacts", "possibly the most powerful artifact on Abeir-Toril", "essences of many ancient elves", "Once the tree of souls has been planted, however, it can never be moved again." Since I once espoused the same multi-tree theory, I sympathize and offer an alternative. How about using a Paragon Treant Hierophant with the Epic Magic feat? No? There is always Mella Theeg, maybe she could spare a sapling, if you can pay the shipping costs. Anybody else have ideas? Female Coronal, female Imaskari, and female Blackstaff. The Realms is becoming a she women man haters club. Or some games designers really need a date! Is the new Coronal at least an Elf?!?!? Luci, what's the issue with girls? I know there all curvy and complicated but you really must calm down. Yes, she is an Elf. One I would summon to you if I had the spell slots. That would be a true popcorn moment...
GothicDan 03-02-07, 10:36 PM	So, the assumption that the Tree of Life was planted on Evermeet, and can never be moved, would have made Lamaruil's adventure to start a new realm utterly useless.... It's really beyond me how an error this immense in regards to Elven culture and history could have been made. But I'd probably make just as stupid an error in something else, myself, I guess.
BrennonGoldeye 03-02-07, 10:42 PM	Is there a 3E version of the tree?
Lord Karsus 03-02-07, 11:31 PM	Is there a 3E version of the tree? -Nope, though I am going to eventually "update it" in Elves of Faerûn. But, when I do, there is going to more of an emphasis on lore, rather than statistics. I probably won't even both discussing what it does "in game terms".
GothicDan 03-03-07, 12:01 AM	Because it would be so different in 3E that it would HAVE to affect the lore. Namely: there's no chance of Elven High Magic failing terribly and raping you any more, which was its primary purpose before.
BrennonGoldeye 03-03-07, 10:03 AM	So in other words it's a big bush and it doesn't mean :twocents: where it is planted. At least until it gets updated. Is that the jist?
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-03-07, 12:43 PM	From Elves of Evermeet Luci, what's the issue with girls? I know there all curvy and complicated but you really must calm down. Yes, she is an Elf. One I would summon to you if I had the spell slots. That would be a true popcorn moment... I’m just interested in why all the mail power figures are being killed off and replaced with females. That’s all. Look at the List. 1. The new Coronal 2. The Black Staff with Tsarra 3. Azoun replaced by Princess Alusair Nacacia 4. Vanderghast replaced with Caladnei 5. How many realms to the various seven sisters rule? I know there are others I can’t think of right now! It’s just all getting rather silly. Why not kill of Fzoul while where at it. Put a female priest of Bane in charge of the Black network. Kill the open lord and put his daughter in charge! What’s going on?
BrennonGoldeye 03-03-07, 08:32 PM	I’m just interested in why all the mail power figures are being killed off and replaced with females. That’s all. Simple, women remember addresses better than men. Look at the List. 1. The new Coronal 2. The Black Staff with Tsarra 3. Azoun replaced by Princess Alusair Nacacia 4. Vanderghast replaced with Caladnei Women live longer than men? 5. How many realms to the various seven sisters rule? You realize your speaking of a group of 700something year old women who helped shape the power those figures had. They aren't something new.
venkelos9 03-03-07, 09:09 PM	-Anyway, to further go on about what I said before, perhaps you can somehow "pull off" a branch of the World Tree, and bring it to your city. Theoretically, you could have it finagled to Yggdrasil itself, making your city a stop on it's many branches, and allowing others in your city to transport themselves iva the tree. Hey, why not? I appreciate the thought, and thank you, but I have only one real problem with it. For the time being, Myth Yggdrasil is a closed city. Teleportation and similar magics don't work within it, and there is only a single gate that leads in or out. For the time being, i am thinking of having it be in Silverymoon (a safe-ish city with a racially diverse population held in the hands of good, and well-defended), and until some time has passed, and a number of things have happened, such as city-building, druids building forests, and other things, Quarion plans to keep the access limited. So, while I really like the idea of being attached to the World Tree, the possible planar traffic would currently be a no-no. Don't want to seem like I'm griping, at least someone actually thought of something, but I don't think it would work at the time being, and I can't think of anything else tree-related, other than that epic druid treant :weep: . Based on rules from the book (LEoF mostly), it says a "great tree" could be a capstone. I'm thinking maybe just a regular tree, maybe one that is druided up. Maybe some druids devoted to Corellon, Angharradh, Sehanie Moonbow, or some elven nature-god will have a druid circle for the tree and life of Myth Yggdrasil.
MarkusTay63 03-03-07, 10:34 PM	-Richard Baker made a big, big, BIG, BIG boo-boo. He never bothered doing research, so he forgot that the Tree of Souls was with Prince Lamuril, to be planted in his Elven Realm in the north. He thought it was planted on Evermeet, which enabled Amlauril to give the sapling to Saeveril and the Crusade. -Basically, he really messed up the continuity of the Realms, shrugged his shoulders, and said, "Oh well..." :mad: I know this is an old post I'm responding to, but so what? :D Since my campaign is set in the 90's, after the Tree is planted, I can come up with some reasons for this. Either Lamruil didn't have the 'real' tree of life (for whatever reason), or his mission was a failure and the tree was returned to Evermeet in time for Richard Baker's novel. I'm sure if they decide to explain it that way Elaine will be pist, but oh well. I personally think the Tree SHOULD have gone to Cormanthyr, it makes more sense. The Tree is supposed to be planted when the Elves "return to the mainland"; that's what it says in EoE, not when the Elves "go to the Northpole to build toys for Santa". When the tree is planted, it will boost Elven magic for a hundred mile radius. Extremely useful in Cormanthyr, a total waste in 'Shangri la' (another D&D rip-off, I might add). My money's on the Tree being in Cormanthor, since that series ends later and trumps older lore. Face it, the Prince died in a Blizzard. The Elves having yet another secret homeland was just plan silly and redundant, thats what Evermeet was for (and to a lesser extent, Evereska). IMHO the biggest mistake was making Evermeet mainstream, it was supposed to ba a land shrouded in mystery. They really need to keep some of the world's secets a secret, you know what I mean? :bored:
Krash 03-03-07, 11:39 PM	-Well, to put it bluntly, you can't. There is (technically) only ONE Tree of Life, and it is in the possession of Prince Lamuril. As I mentioned in my last post, Richard Baker made a huge mistake by thinking that the Tree of Life was still Evermeet, and created a "sapling", to be placed in Myth Drannor. Maybe the Tree of Life which was entrusted to Lamruil was never actually planted in the far, northern wastes as originally intended. has anyone ever considered that possibility? -- George Krashos
Lord Karsus 03-03-07, 11:51 PM	Maybe the Tree of Life which was entrusted to Lamruil was never actually planted in the far, northern wastes as originally intended. has anyone ever considered that possibility? -- George Krashos -I'll believe it when I see it.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-04-07, 03:50 AM	Simple, women remember addresses better than men. Women live longer than men? Actually you’re wrong! Again. Current studies have revealed that women in America are now dieing at the same rate as men. Thanks to equality and the fact that women have moved into career fields typically held by men in the past, women are now dropping like flies. High stress jobs are now held be both genders. So both genders kick off at about the same rate. You really shouldn’t quote social statistic from the 1970’s to a social scientist. Silly girl.
BrennonGoldeye 03-04-07, 09:57 AM	Actually you’re wrong! Again. Current studies have revealed that women in America are now dieing at the same rate as men. Thanks to equality and the fact that women have moved into career fields typically held by men in the past, women are now dropping like flies. High stress jobs are now held be both genders. So both genders kick off at about the same rate. And this has exactly what to do with anything? Current studies in America mean didly to the FR. Fact, women, on average, live longer than men. Period. You really shouldn’t quotes social statistic from the 1970’s to a social scientists. Silly girl. Look, when you learn use the words "quote" and "scientist" correctly, let alone refer to those of us with the XY chromosome as "male" instead of "mail", come back and we will talk. :rolleyes:
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-04-07, 01:44 PM	And this has exactly what to do with anything? Current studies in America mean didly to the FR. Fact, women, on average, live longer than men. Period. Check your facts Jack! This has nothing to do with the Realms. However you mentioned that women live longer then men. Hey guess what? They used too. They don’t now! So guess who is wrong! You!:) Fact: Women today have the same average life span as men. When you fail to control for occupation, which is what they did in the past women did appear to live longer then men.:P
BrennonGoldeye 03-04-07, 02:41 PM	Check your facts Jack! This has nothing to do with the Realms. However you mentioned that women live longer then men. Hey guess what? They used too. They don’t now! So guess who is wrong! You!:) Fact: Women today have the same average life span as men. When you fail to control for occupation, which is what they did in the past women did appear to live longer then men.:P Ok, listen very carefully. While the above quote is precise and surprisingly well spelled it is totally useless as far as the FR is concerned. We aren't speaking of Terra in 2007. We are speaking of Abeir-Toril in 1370's. You do understand the difference don't you. LLKN, your spoiling for a pwning ....Hush....
venkelos9 03-04-07, 04:05 PM	I find this amusing. We are talking about life expectancy, and it's weird, based on the groups referenced. Elves. Elves are effectively immortal, unless they are killed. Give them a certain amount of time, and they'll hear the Call to Arvandor, but they don't "die" of old age, male or female. The Seven Sisters. Nothing about their gender really extends their lives. They are Chosen of Mystra, daughters of a goddess, and powerful wizards, with access to things like potions of longevity. Elminster is no slouch in the age dept., hell, he helped raise several of them. If Khelban "Blackstaff" hadn't died (news to me, sadly), he's old as dirt, too, for the same connected as hell reasons. I suppose, in Abeir-Toril, there is a slightly better chance that women will live longer, as men seem to be slightly more inclined to adventure; a wonderful way to shorten one's life, but 3.5 seems to reflect that just as many women adventure, so... As for the average folks, it seems to me that plenty of women were doing the same backbreaking chores as men (if you aren't an adventurer, you're probably a farmer), and they have just as many chances to get injured. Add in that only women have the whole childbirth angle, with medicine limited midwives and the occasional capable cleric. In the end, gender has little to do with L.Exp in Faerun, as either side can find plenty of ways to die, and they can also just as easily make use of the same life-extending measures. My play on it is that they are just trying to appeal to female players, by showing them that women can aspire to do stuff. The game is a predominantly medieval-flavored setting, and women didn't do much there. Examples like Caladnei and Alusair are there to show that women can, and do aspire to high positions of power. If you aren't fond of Alusair, remember that, eventually, Azoun V will come of age, and he'll be King, assuming some catastrophe doesn't happen. Blackstaff, well, I'm not fond of it, but it would've likely been him or Elminster, and I like Elminster more. As for other women taking out prominent male NPC's and procuring their jobs, go for it, if you want to. I'd think Fzoul is safe in his spot, being Chosen of Bane, and all, and his blackguard defender, Scyllua Darkhope, will probably fend off ANY contenders. Okay, I've flapped my gums enough on this issue. Could anyone suggest a good Elven deity for druids for me? I'm not in the mood to look them up, and my three favorites, I think, are not necessarily acceptable. I'd shoot for Corellon, Angdarradh, or Sehanie Moonbow, but I don't remember if any of them are druid-capable. My large mythal needs to have some druids to manage the trees, as well as the Tree (whatever form it eventually takes), and a circle of them would be nice. Also, I am open to suggestions for a city to stash the standing gate in. I like Silverymoon, but if anyone has a better suggestion, I am open to it. Preferably a non-racist city in the hands of good that isn't likely to fall anytime soon.
Lord Karsus 03-04-07, 04:09 PM	-In all seriousness, George, I was thinking about what you said, and you could theoretically be correct. That would be a good way to get rid of the Hidden Elven Homeland plot, tie it to the Elven Crusade, and have all the ends meet very nicely. As a fan of that plot, however, I do hope that you are wrong...
Alediran 03-04-07, 05:48 PM	@venkelos, that is why you have Rillifane for elven druids.
Krash 03-04-07, 08:04 PM	-In all seriousness, George, I was thinking about what you said, and you could theoretically be correct. That would be a good way to get rid of the Hidden Elven Homeland plot, tie it to the Elven Crusade, and have all the ends meet very nicely. As a fan of that plot, however, I do hope that you are wrong... I like the plot too and if I have any say in the matter, Lamruil's bolthole will be a fixture of the Realms to come - a new Evereska now that this 'hidden sanctuary' is anything but. It simply won't have a Tree of Souls. Although I'll see what I can do about a nifty mythal.:) -- George Krashos
Lord Karsus 03-04-07, 08:28 PM	I like the plot too and if I have any say in the matter, Lamruil's bolthole will be a fixture of the Realms to come - a new Evereska now that this 'hidden sanctuary' is anything but. It simply won't have a Tree of Souls. Although I'll see what I can do about a nifty mythal.:) -- George Krashos -It's good to have you lobbying on our behalf. :)
GothicDan 03-04-07, 09:19 PM	If Elaine had decided that Lamruil had not planted the Tree of Life in the North, for whatever reason, that'd be fine with me. But the fact that Rich's books were in large part one of the reasons why she decided to entirely NOT continue writing that bit of lore of the Realms? I'm not inclined to be sympathetic. I'm sorry if that makes me an elitist grognard. Wait, no I'm not. I'm more sorry that more people AREN'T elitist grognards. ;)
Lord Karsus 03-04-07, 11:03 PM	I'm not inclined to be sympathetic. I'm sorry if that makes me an elitist grognard. Wait, no I'm not. I'm more sorry that more people AREN'T elitist grognards. ;) -It's true. See: I heartily concur with Lord Karsus, and am proud to be a snooty, judgmental, elitist bastard. :)
ElberethSilverleaf 03-05-07, 12:52 AM	Kind of off topic but venkelos9 mentioned Azoun V. Isn't he a bastard? And if he is, wouldn't that make Alusair the "legitimate" claimant to the throne??
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-05-07, 01:11 AM	Kind of off topic but venkelos9 mentioned Azoun V. Isn't he a bastard? And if he is, wouldn't that make Alusair the "legitimate" claimant to the throne?? He wouldn’t be the first bastard on the throne!
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-05-07, 01:27 AM	Ok, listen very carefully. While the above quote is precise and surprisingly well spelled it is totally useless as far as the FR is concerned. We aren't speaking of Terra in 2007. We are speaking of Abeir-Toril in 1370's. You do understand the difference don't you. LLKN, your spoiling for a pwning ....Hush.... Bren are you a member of the grammar police as well? Silly girl
Lord Karsus 03-05-07, 10:26 AM	Kind of off topic but venkelos9 mentioned Azoun V. Isn't he a bastard? And if he is, wouldn't that make Alusair the "legitimate" claimant to the throne?? -Azoun V was the son of Azoun's other daughter, whose name escapes me at the moment...Tanalasta. Since Tanalasta died, her son is the legitimate heir to the throne. Alusair is the regent, but since a legitimate heir exists, she has to step down once he comes of age. Bren are you a member of the grammar police as well? Silly girl -Proper command of the English language is a must, if you want to be taken seriously around here.
Alediran 03-05-07, 12:10 PM	-Proper command of the English language is a must, if you want to be taken seriously around here. Unless you get the "English second language" card and don't make too much mistakes.
Lord Karsus 03-05-07, 12:24 PM	Unless you get the "English second language" card and don't make too much mistakes. -That too. -To paraphrase Qui-Gon Jinn, "The ability to speak does not make one intelligent".
shamanphenix 03-05-07, 01:04 PM	Unless you get the "English second language" card and don't make too much mistakes. And does it exist a "English fourth language" card as well ? :)
Alediran 03-05-07, 01:11 PM	And does it exist a "English fourth language" card as well ? :) The "English second language" aplies to anybody who aren't native english speakers.
BrennonGoldeye 03-05-07, 08:27 PM	And does it exist a "English fourth language" card as well ? :) You get 2 shiny stars on your card Shamanphenix. And first in line for the dessert table! :)
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-06-07, 10:55 AM	No habla espanol?:P
Alediran 03-06-07, 01:19 PM	Yo si, es mi lengua oficial I do, it's my mother language.
FineasBoggs 03-06-07, 04:48 PM	Assault on Myth Drannor list some specific features of the Mythal in its corrupted state. Feather fall is the only one that I recall ATM.
BrennonGoldeye 03-06-07, 08:55 PM	Yo si, es mi lengua oficial I do, it's my mother language. Mucho gusto amigo!:ayyyy!: Creo Lucien es muy alucinar, en todo.:looloo:
Alediran 03-06-07, 10:14 PM	Mucho gusto amigo!:ayyyy!: Creo Lucien es muy alucinar, en todo.:looloo: Seria mas asi como "Creo que Lucien alucina mucho, en todo." The grammar is a bit different, I also have the same problem, but with english.
GothicDan 03-06-07, 10:29 PM	Heh, lo comprendo!
BrennonGoldeye 03-06-07, 10:38 PM	Seria mas asi como "Creo que Lucien alucina mucho, en todo." The grammar is a bit different, I also have the same problem, but with english. Sorry, my Spanish is incredibly rusty. It's been awhile. :ayyyy!: LLKN, please tell me Spanish is your mother tongue. No? Farsi? Hindi? Frikin Afrikaans? Click daben Click? :help: Heh, lo comprendo! No fair, your taking Latin..lol.
GothicDan 03-06-07, 10:40 PM	I also had 5 years of Spanish in high school/middle school. :)
Nocci 03-07-07, 02:19 AM	Women get to recycle their blood a whole lot more than men do, so I'm a firm believer that that is the reason we tend(ed) to live longer. Men who give blood, also (to a lesser extent) have been found to live longer. Now a days, women have birthcontrol-stuffs that gets rid of the recycling-bit, so that, atleast I think, is why we no longer live as long as we used to compared to men. But that's beside the point.. my point was... lost under these.. leaves here... Ahem. Myth Drannor & The Cormanthor = <3 ... :w00t: *intellect is clearly diminishing in the early morning without any rest the previous night*
ElberethSilverleaf 03-07-07, 03:37 AM	-Azoun V was the son of Azoun's other daughter, whose name escapes me at the moment...Tanalasta. Since Tanalasta died, her son is the legitimate heir to the throne. Alusair is the regent, but since a legitimate heir exists, she has to step down once he comes of age. -Proper command of the English language is a must, if you want to be taken seriously around here. Thanks LK, for some reason I thought the infant was the old Azouns love child...
Lord Karsus 03-08-07, 08:52 AM	Thanks LK, for some reason I thought the infant was the old Azouns love child... -I am sure that King Azoun IV has bastard children that are around the same age as Azoun V. When the child comes of age, I can almost guarantee that some noble family will come forward with said bastard child, and demand that, since the child is the actual son of Azoun, he should be placed on the throne, with, of course, the backing of that family.
MarkusTay63 03-08-07, 08:54 AM	I think there's even a 'love-child' between Azoun and Elminster, back when El was a woman. I knew Vangy playing with time travel was a baaaad idea... :rolleye2:
Lord Karsus 03-08-07, 09:22 AM	I think there's even a 'love-child' between Azoun and Elminster, back when El was a woman. I knew Vangy playing with time travel was a baaaad idea... :rolleye2: -Vangy finally outwitted Elminster. :) -And, that would fit with the trend that nearly everyone in Cormyr is somehow related to Elminster! ;)
Nocci 03-08-07, 01:11 PM	That guy really gets around... :rolleyes:
ElberethSilverleaf 03-10-07, 01:04 AM	That guy really gets around... :rolleyes: I can't understand why either. He's a lecherous old troll. He seems like the literary wish fulfillment of some old dude.
Krash 03-10-07, 01:51 AM	I can't understand why either. He's a lecherous old troll. He seems like the literary wish fulfillment of some old dude. :rolleyes: -- George Krashos
Stigger 03-10-07, 02:07 AM	Dunno about that... considering Marilyn Monroe's comments about intelligence, it isn't that hard to imagine.
Old Sage 03-10-07, 02:07 AM	I can't understand why either. He's a lecherous old troll. He seems like the literary wish fulfillment of some old dude.::shakes head:: Elbereth, if you're going to make nonsense comments like this, at least have the courtesy to support them with actual references. Ed's expressed, numerous times through his replies at Candlekeep, that Elminster is NOT the literary expression of himself. And since you seem to be under the mistaken impression that Elminster is Ed's *pet* character in the Realms, I'll take this opportunity to educate you on the matter. He is not. Both Ed and the Lady Hooded One at Candlekeep have, repeatedly, made this quite clear. Consider this, directly from Ed:- "No, of course not. WotC authors are often asked to provide “sell copy” for book jackets, though it NEVER reaches print un-tinkered-with, but in the old TSR days, writers were rarely invited to do so. I had never seen that blurb until a copy of the book was brought to me for signing at a convention, and I certainly never wrote a word of it. No, I have never said Elminster is my “alter ego.” TSR has, many times; a practice that began in GenCon pre-registration blurb booklets, describing the seminars I did in costume, acting the part of Elminster - - ALSO a practice TSR asked me to begin and carry on. When they, many years later, asked me to leave the costume at home, I happily did so. Those robes are hot. :} To reiterate: I have never, ever said that Elminster is my alter ego or wish fulfillment character, or thought that way for one minute. I will never use any Realms characters in that manner, because doing so would ruin the whole fun of creating the world and its characters, and watching what happens and how they evolve. Just as all of the gamers who have played various PC adventurers in my Realms sessions over the years are playing roles, not themselves. So saith Ed. Who will return with regular Realmslore about ten hours from now, if he stays on schedule. love, THO"
BrennonGoldeye 03-11-07, 01:04 PM	Yeah! :)
ElberethSilverleaf 03-12-07, 09:22 PM	Old Sage pleeease get off your high horse. I said Elminster seems like the wish fulfillment of some old dude, not that he IS the wish fulfillment of some old dude. There wasn't anything nonsensical in my comment. It was clearly written.
Old Sage 03-12-07, 09:42 PM	Actually, it wasn't. I'll note that two other posters, apparently, also interpreted your comments in the same fashion I did.
ElberethSilverleaf 03-12-07, 10:54 PM	If you disagree with my opinion I accept and respect that. Everyone has an opinion and I don't expect everyone or anyone to agree with mine. No hard feelings.
Old Sage 03-12-07, 11:22 PM	Except that there is no truth to support your opinion on this. You are, of course, free to can continue believing it, if you so wish -- as you said, it's your opinion. However, I'm also inclined to point out that such opinions actually have no firm basis in truth as it pertains to the Realms, and thus are incorrect. Ed made that clear in the quote I posted above. I feel it is necessary to do this, because these types of opinions are often the cause of so much conflict and argument on message boards... simply due to the fact that certain individual haven't taken the time to properly research and support their opinions before they post them online.
ElberethSilverleaf 03-13-07, 12:12 AM	I'm not going to argue. This is my opinion. I read the quote from Greenwood a while back. It doesn't change my opinion. I never stated what I said was a fact, nor did I word it in that manner. I actually like Ed and the world he has created for the most part. It still doesn't change my opinion of the fictional character Elminster. I still think he's a lech.
Old Sage 03-13-07, 12:22 AM	::shakes head:: I'm done here.
Stigger 03-13-07, 01:06 AM	Well, Khelbens commentary about the seduction of apprentii would kinda support the whole lech point of view... not the wish fulfilment part necessarily, but definitely the lech part. ;)