Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jonise 07-16-07, 11:52 PM	I am so very excited for September 25th to come; because Salvatore's new Drizzit book "The Orc King" will be out. You can see it on his website at: www.rasalvatore.com
creyzi4zb12 07-17-07, 06:09 AM	Ummm... it says that powerful individuals will talk, but it won't be easy. Does that mean that Bruenor and Obould get to have a peace pact? Obould won't die.
MerrikCale 07-17-07, 11:13 PM	Ummm... it says that powerful individuals will talk, but it won't be easy. Does that mean that Bruenor and Obould get to have a peace pact? Obould won't die. at least not until the end of the trilogy
Lord Karsus 07-17-07, 11:43 PM	Ummm... it says that powerful individuals will talk, but it won't be easy. Does that mean that Bruenor and Obould get to have a peace pact? -No, it means that Drizzt will break his jaw, and have it wired shut, but will try to wax philosophic anyway.
creyzi4zb12 07-18-07, 04:50 AM	at least not until the end of the trilogy Obould's too cool to die....Well, at least in the hands of Drizzt. If he were to die slipping in his bathtub then it'd be more realistic.
ShadezofDis 07-18-07, 11:57 AM	Obould's too cool to die....Well, at least in the hands of Drizzt. If he were to die slipping in his bathtub then it'd be more realistic. LOL Orcs don't bath. :p I like LK's answer though.
Nickoleye 07-18-07, 04:59 PM	I am so very excited for September 25th to come; because Salvatore's new Drizzit book "The Orc King" will be out. You can see it on his website at: www.rasalvatore.com Cant wait for the paper back, probably next year:(
Stigger 07-19-07, 08:19 AM	Well, if Obould is even considering talking to someone, I'd say it was pretty clear proof that he isn't the Chosen of Grumpy... would be a fairly severe violation of Grumpy's tenets to do anything but kill a non-orc... :tongue:
Eli_the_Tanner 07-19-07, 09:42 AM	It would be very interesting for the 'evil' humanoids to finally have their own kingdom for the 'goodly' races to deal with. In the realms it seems that unless you live in the Underdark it is very hard for many classic monsters to establish much more than a tribal society. I understand that this in their nature to live in caves moaning about the girly elves or stumpy dwarves until every so often they get the idea to run out into the light and get killed by the concept of a wall. However it would be very interesting to see how the rulers of the Silver Marches deal with an intelligent orc leader and a seemingly cohesive orc society. I'm hoping it will make the other races think about their usual suppresion of tribal races i.e. Lizardfolk, goblins etc. Will dwarven prejudice run against human intergration. I've always thought that the Drizzt novels have attempted to challenge the notions of discrimination, recently however it has not challenged the reader morally, until now (Part of reason I've been preferring the Artemis Saga of late). Potentially a very important set of books for the relams. Long live the Kingdom of Dark-Arrows!!
ShadezofDis 07-19-07, 10:46 AM	Unless Gruumsh loses his hold on orcs, or changes (we'd need a DAMN good reason why he'd change after 10's of thousands of years) then I don't see orcs being a good choice for the "evil humanoids rising". They just don't have the ability to work towards a long term goal, nor do they have the motivation to work towards those goals (orc motivation is MUCH more immediate, just how their gods like it) Lizardmen would work better, goblins/hobgoblins/bugbears would work better, gnolls would work better, giants would work better, as would tons of other humanoid races (kobolds backed by dragons anyone?) Orcs have been, are and will be their own greatest enemies (unless you want to count Gruumsh, who's done more harm to orcs than anything else) So, unless the Scro come down and kick Gruumsh and his shaman out of power then I don't see them being a major civilized type threat. Though Salvator might run the same story as Homeland, Obould throwing off the oppressive yolk of Gruumsh and his clergy in order to improve the lot of orcish life (ie. what Drizzt did, except with a lot of followers)
Eli_the_Tanner 07-20-07, 06:28 AM	It does seem that Salvatore is doing a similar 'enlightened monster' type story to Drizzt's early days. Obould's disillusionment with usual orc tactics and his lust for a grand kingdom of dark-arrows shows signs of an orc beyond the norm. It would require an orc beyond the norm to acheive such a thing. There is the question of where his power to do such a thing is coming from, Obould was already smarter and different to his kind before his blessing from Gruumsh and the paln to acheive such a thing was already in his mind. He is hailed as 'Obould-who-is-Gruumsh' which may mean his kingdom may be divinly sponsered, certainly something that his followers believe. After all is it not the nature of chaos to work against the grain, even if that means a semblance of order for a time. Obould is far more intelligent, patient and ambitious that nearly all of his kind. He also seems to be becoming annoyed with Gruumsh cramping his style though. He may attempt to establish a kingdom independant of Gruumsh's influence.
ShadezofDis 07-20-07, 08:11 AM	It does seem that Salvatore is doing a similar 'enlightened monster' type story to Drizzt's early days. Obould's disillusionment with usual orc tactics and his lust for a grand kingdom of dark-arrows shows signs of an orc beyond the norm. It would require an orc beyond the norm to acheive such a thing. More than one, IMO, much more like hundreds. :) There is the question of where his power to do such a thing is coming from, Obould was already smarter and different to his kind before his blessing from Gruumsh and the paln to acheive such a thing was already in his mind. He is hailed as 'Obould-who-is-Gruumsh' which may mean his kingdom may be divinly sponsered, certainly something that his followers believe. There is no doubt that he was divinely blessed, I'm not sure about an ongoing sponsorship though (ie. a god who's closely watching over him ready to jump to his aid *g*). Though I don't have a pretty big problem with the divine sponsorship. It goes along the lines of; If Obould's blessing came from Gruumsh then I cannot see how his utter failure at Mithril Hall would be viewed in anything but the worst light by Gruumsh. If it was Gruumsh then I firmly believe that Obould should have been stripped of that power and either killed outright or sent to wander the mountains alone and miserable. If it was some other agency that has blessed Obould then I firmly believe that Gruumsh has to be aware of this agency (too many uses of his name, prayers from his faithful, ect for him to be unaware unless there is some sort of interference) and Gruumsh doesn't really seem like the type to be flattered by impressions (ie. the agency in question posing as Gruumsh). I can see this angle working though, but there's got to be a good explination. After all is it not the nature of chaos to work against the grain, even if that means a semblance of order for a time. Pure chaos? I'd say yes. Gruumsh? I'd say no. Gruumsh has been doing what Gruumsh does for the past few 10's of thousands of years with VERY little change, unless there is some sort of instigating agency then I just don't buy Gruumsh waking up one morning going "Well. .. you know what? I'm feeling forgiving. I know, I know, it's strange, after 10's of thousands of years I finally get to experience that feeling for the first time! You know what else? I'm feeling pretty durned smart today too!" Obould is far more intelligent, patient and ambitious that nearly all of his kind. He also seems to be becoming annoyed with Gruumsh cramping his style though. He may attempt to establish a kingdom independant of Gruumsh's influence. Which, IMO, should make him the target of the largest number of orc hordes on Faerun. Gruumsh doesn't really allow the orcish deities to deviate from the general "orcish lifestyle", I see no reason he'd allow this orc to do that. Further, I don't even see the plan really getting off the ground (the "screw Gruumsh" plan that is) due to the influence of the shaman of Gruumsh. There's only so much disbelief I can suspend. ;)
Stigger 07-20-07, 08:44 AM	Good summation of my thoughts there Shadez... just pushes what we know of ol' Grumpy a bit too far to be plausible.
ShadezofDis 07-20-07, 09:27 AM	Good summation of my thoughts there Shadez... just pushes what we know of ol' Grumpy a bit too far to be plausible. Indeed, I mean, I've run with the "trying to improve the orcish lot in life" with an old 2e character but the particular character was a half-scro who worshiped Dukagsh and was absolutely disgusted with the FR orcish pantheon. :) I mean, if done correctly I could see this being a great plot, the orcs of FR trying to throw off the oppressive yolk of Gruumsh but I just don't see that happening here, it seems much more like an attempt to re-write what Gruumsh is. Since I don't really know the orcish pantheon all that well I don't know if there is an appropriate god to be the "hidden force" in this situation the is trying to usurp Gruumsh's place. But I'll probably read the book anyhow, because while I'm frustrated with the . . . lack of research (or seeming lack of research) I still do dig RAS' stories. (for the most part anyhow *g*) I guess my main problem with these types of situations is I can see the general idea but more often than not there are better agents to drive such a plot. By better I mean more suitable given the lore of the world. ie. IMO the best humanoid group to use would be hobgoblins (with other goblinoid forces filling the ranks). They are organized, militant and just need a foothold in order to establish a kingdom, which would happen organically, rather than the head of the kingdom constantly having to force his authority down his kingdom's throat.
Faraer 07-20-07, 02:19 PM	I didn't like Drizzt becoming the main character over Wulfgar, Bruenor and the Companions of the Hall, and I don't like this personal stress on Obould over the rest of the horde. The "great man" school of history is a lousy fit in the Realms.
Eli_the_Tanner 07-20-07, 03:21 PM	I concur with you that Obould has probably failed in the eyes of Gruumsh, due to his failure to take Mithral hall among other numerous setbacks. However he has acheived a considerable amount and as is attempting to solidify his postion for the orcs. Salvatore has been known for his ability to re-write vast tracts of Realmslore and history to suit his needs (annoyingly so). An interview with Salvatore about The Orc King at rasalvatore.com he stated that this book will say alot about the realms and that he has had to talk with WOTC about. We shouldn't put it past Salvatore to defy what has come before. However it is not like such an orcish event has not gone without precedent. The southern part of the High Forest has a few tribes of neutral (N and CN) mountain orcs who worship Herne Herkgruum (Herne the Huntmaster), an ancient Neutral orc god. And there were the Eldath-worshipping Ondonti orcs. It appears from reading the books that Obould is almost attemptng a social revoloution, trying to civilise the orcs from a simple orc horde to a an orc army, clear chains of command, supplementing his troops with allies, utilising terrain tactically and now building fortifications. Only Drizzt (as usual) seems to have grasped the difference betwwen Oboulds force and other orc hordes. IMO the best humanoid group to use would be hobgoblins (with other goblinoid forces filling the ranks). They are organized, militant and just need a foothold in order to establish a kingdom, which would happen organically, rather than the head of the kingdom constantly having to force his authority down his kingdom's throat. Perhaps one of the most interesting things about this is the unlikelyhood of such a thing happening. (Almost as unlikely as a drow turning away from his society to live on the surface with some dwarves as a ranger of a unicorn-based deity) Due to the political make-up of the the Silver Marches makes the idea of a rising orc nation possible. A collection of small, newly-formed frontier states with a tentative alliance means it would be a very risky option to simply wipe the orcs out, especially if Obould offers peace. The silver marches seems to be one of the few places poliically where an orc nation can rise and thrive politically. Again I must agree that one of the greatest challenges Obould faces is not his enemies but rather his own people. You are right in saying that the influence of the shamans is pivotal in Oboulds power, but for now this mastery seems to have stood up despite a number of test against it. Furthermore we do not know yet the full-extent of Oboulds plans, we know he plans to establish a new kingdom and has entertained thoughts of peaceful trade. Will he be content to build up his lands without bothering the rest of the marches...doubtful, but if he does invade.... In the past, the orcs' inadequacy at strategy and war tactics was offset only by their physical prowess. Now imagine the both combined. A thouroughly intriguing prospect, if he can pull it off, which seems possible given the above circumstances.
Lord Karsus 07-20-07, 09:23 PM	But I'll probably read the book anyhow, because while I'm frustrated with the . . . lack of research (or seeming lack of research) I still do dig RAS' stories. (for the most part anyhow *g*) -Here, here. An interview with Salvatore about The Orc King at rasalvatore.com he stated that this book will say alot about the realms and that he has had to talk with WOTC about. We shouldn't put it past Salvatore to defy what has come before. -That is not cool...
creyzi4zb12 07-21-07, 07:18 AM	Orcs rule. That's why the title is called OrcKing. I don't care if they get beat up for thousands of years. SO long as they sustain the casualty and stand strong, they're definitely superb. RAS books portrays orcs as underdogs compared to other races. That's one of the main reasons I hated the book. Everytime I read about dwarves getting killed by orcs in the book I fly into ecstasy. Avatar on the other hand had different portrayals of orcs compared to elves and humans, I've noted them as uber races such as ambushing the Shadowdale goons on the bushes, and betraying the Zhentarim(Who's stupid now!!) in their direst need of the orcs. I remember General Vrakk's famous words in Zhentil Keep at the moment of its fall. "We're monsters!! So we fight in the side of mosnters!"
Lord Karsus 07-22-07, 12:08 AM	Orcs rule. That's why the title is called OrcKing. -Um...Not necessarily. RAS books portrays orcs as underdogs compared to other races. -Well, they kinda are.
msatran 07-22-07, 12:12 AM	You would be an underdog too if your habits included eating your neighbors for sport.
Lord Karsus 07-22-07, 12:14 AM	-Not to mention the lack of bathing, and eating the creatures that said lack of bathing attracts.
msatran 07-22-07, 12:16 AM	Hey, wait a minute. Don't knock the idea of baiting Elephants. I hear they're fairly tasty when not endangered.
Lord Karsus 07-22-07, 12:21 AM	Hey, wait a minute. Don't knock the idea of baiting Elephants. I hear they're fairly tasty when not endangered. -That made me wonder, so I checked: Orcs do have a higher INT than elephants.
msatran 07-22-07, 12:23 AM	Uh, wisdom is the stat you should really be checking here.
Lord Karsus 07-22-07, 12:28 AM	Uh, wisdom is the stat you should really be checking here. -Let's see... -Heh, Elephants beat out Orcs in this category, with a 13 WIS.
creyzi4zb12 07-22-07, 07:13 AM	You would be an underdog too if your habits included eating your neighbors for sport. Orcs taste good. :P What can you do. And at least they kill them for something that's nourishing, not like the drow who kill for pure pleasure. Orcs > Drow. THat's why they're more popular than them on many stories like. You've never heard of drow on The Lord of Rings Trilogy You've never heard of Drow on warhammer We rarely get drows on the warcraft We don't have drows on dragonlance, but there was a typo error in Tales of Unclespringer about orcs in Krynn. (please don't quote that there are no orcs in Krynn, because I know that) Basically: Obould = orc Drizzt = drow Obould > Drizzt ie. IMO the best humanoid group to use would be hobgoblins (with other goblinoid forces filling the ranks). They are organized, militant and just need a foothold in order to establish a kingdom, which would happen organically, rather than the head of the kingdom constantly having to force his authority down his kingdom's throat. You don't read about hobgoblins that much, popular demand for them is kinda low. The only book I read where there were hobgoblins at was Elminster in Myth Drannor. They kinda kicked elven asses. I mean comeon, you don't see half-hobgoblins as a major race in 3e. I think the main reason is that they just don't breed that much. Not like the orcs, orcs are like rabbits. So, unless the Scro come down and kick Gruumsh and his shaman out of power then I don't see them being a major civilized type threat. Kinda cool, they kick ass too, but I like it the "orc way" spill out in hoards with that massive pig numbers and cause overpopulation in the Realms.
creyzi4zb12 07-22-07, 07:44 AM	I DOUBLE POSTED.......SORRY :(
Stigger 07-22-07, 05:51 PM	You terrify me sometimes Creyzi... not sure if its in a good way or a bad way though...
Lord Karsus 07-22-07, 05:53 PM	-Well, I guess everyone deserves some kind of representation, even Orcs. Thus, Creyzi has a niche.
Stigger 07-22-07, 06:05 PM	I suppose so... remember the good ol' days back when they were just fodder until you got to where you were actually going?
Zanan 07-22-07, 06:47 PM	RAS books portrays orcs as underdogs compared to other races. That's one of the main reasons I hated the book. You see, from a drow's perspective, every other race is an underdog. Not that Drizzt is much of a drow, but I hope you get the point. I could start about illithids too, but I don't regard them as a race altogether :D Anyway, I assume that there will be enough people about reading the book and telling us what happens ... and in great detail. And we will have another 1,398 threads about the scimitar-wielder, his classes and should-be classes and ... anything we had before.
creyzi4zb12 07-22-07, 08:08 PM	Why can't there be a good storyline for orcs in the realms? I wish they'd throw Gruumsh out of the pantheon and replace him with someone more....cooler.
Lord Karsus 07-22-07, 09:00 PM	Why can't there be a good storyline for orcs in the realms? I wish they'd throw Gruumsh out of the pantheon and replace him with someone more....cooler. -You're all over the place. First you like Gruumsh, then you don't. Well, who would you want to head the Orcish Pantheon, instead of Gruumsh?
creyzi4zb12 07-22-07, 10:35 PM	I dunno, Obould? Vrakk. Maybe the orc gods will make a pact and put any of the two on the throne.
DinwathSereglin 07-22-07, 11:43 PM	I suppose so... remember the good ol' days back when they were just fodder until you got to where you were actually going? You mean yesterday?
Green Elven Vampire 07-22-07, 11:49 PM	I just hope Pikel gets his arm back somehow. I was pretty bummed when the calamity happened. And I also hope Salvatore throws Harkle Harple into the story again.
MarkusTay63 07-23-07, 01:18 AM	-Well, who would you want to head the Orcish Pantheon, instead of Gruumsh?Sauron. :D Monsters are people too, they even have a mummy and fodder. ;)
Green Elven Vampire 07-23-07, 02:48 AM	Sauron. :D they even have a mummy and fodder. ;) :rolleyes: :clap: :rolleye2: :turkey:
msatran 07-23-07, 02:58 AM	I would actually prefer they never include Harkle Harpell in any book ever again. Do you really think I want to have to write a spell description for something like this ever again? Gluteal Transposition Transmutation Level: Wizard 4 Components: V,S,M Casting Time: 1 Standard Action Range: Touch Target: One creature Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: Fortitude negates Spell Resistance: No This transmutation spell creates the physical reversal of the location of the caster's brain, causing the essence of that which is the caster's brain to reside in his buttocks, and his buttocks in his brain. This has the following effects. Any Mind Flayer who attempts to extract the brain of the caster must make a Fortitude save or become nauseated for 1d4 Rounds Vorpal Weapons do not work on the user for the duration of the spell. When the spell ends, if a character has been decapitated, he still dies. Should a character be decapitated, they may not use any spells with verbal components unless Silent Spell is used. ----------------- I swear to you upon my life that I did not invent the Brain to ass spell. R. A. Salvatore did that himself, and the rest of us have spent years trying to figure out what to do about it. THis is yet another attempt.
Zevox 07-23-07, 03:04 AM	You've never heard of drow on The Lord of Rings Trilogy That might have something to do with the fact that Tolkien's "Dark Elves" (or Moriquendi, if you prefer his name for them) were simply Elves whose kindred never left Middle Earth. You see a lot of those in the Lord of the Rings, actually - Legolas would be one, for instance. -Well, who would you want to head the Orcish Pantheon, instead of Gruumsh? Sauron. :D :clap: I'd go with that. Hes certainly a hell of a lot more competent than Gruumsh - where he managed to corrupt and then bring about the downfall of the greatest Human nation his world had ever seen and then nearly conquered Middle Earth twice, Gruumsh has just managed to get his followers to kill each other for eons. Zevox
Green Elven Vampire 07-23-07, 03:18 AM	That might have something to do with the fact that Tolkien's "Dark Elves" (or Moriquendi, if you prefer his name for them) were simply Elves whose kindred never left Middle Earth. You see a lot of those in the Lord of the Rings, actually - Legolas would be one, for instance. :clap: I'd go with that. Hes certainly a hell of a lot more competent than Gruumsh - where he managed to corrupt and then bring about the downfall of the greatest Human nation his world had ever seen and then nearly conquered Middle Earth twice, Gruumsh has just managed to get his followers to kill each other for eons. Zevox Bahh!! Sauron was just Lord of Werewolves back in the first age of M-E in his tower of Tol-in-Gaurhoth, while Melkor on the other hand was the father of Orcs and Goblins.
Zevox 07-23-07, 06:44 AM	Bahh!! Sauron was just Lord of Werewolves back in the first age of M-E in his tower of Tol-in-Gaurhoth, while Melkor on the other hand was the father of Orcs and Goblins. Well, I wouldn't call Morgoth the "father" of that race (Orc and Goblin are two names for the same thing in Tolkien, recall) - all he did was corrupt some Elves to create them. More appropriate it would be to call Morgoth the Father of Dragons (if Glaurung didn't already have the title, anyway), since those he genuinely created. But yes, Sauron was "just" that, plus a powerful Sorcerer and Morgoth's top Lieutenant, during the First Age. But come the Second and Third Ages once he was no longer stuck as Morgoth's servant his accomplishments multiplied. Building the towers of Barad-Dūr and Dol Guldur with his own power, making the land of Mordor into his personal fortress, gather the Orcs and Men that had scattered after the War of Wrath to him, creating the One Ring (which worked a whole lot better for him than scattering his power about Middle Earth did for Morgoth), tricking Elves and Men God knows how many times, causing the fall of Numenore, slaying the last true King of the Noldor Gil-Galad, using the rings he gave to Numenorian Men to create the Nazgūl - you know it all, I'm sure. Hes hardly unworthy to be a replacement for an idiot like Gruumsh. Zevox
Zanan 07-23-07, 08:01 AM	Don't we slip a touch towards the off-topic inhere? :cool:
Zevox 07-23-07, 08:54 AM	Don't we slip a touch towards the off-topic inhere? :cool: And is this something new or unexpected around here? ;) Zevox
Lord Karsus 07-23-07, 10:01 AM	Don't we slip a touch towards the off-topic inhere? :cool: -No. Now we're talking about the accomplishments of Sauron of Middle-Earth, who has been chosen to replace Gruumsh as the head of the Orcish Pantheon. In order to accuratley gauge if he should or not, we need to know about his accomplishments and failures, as opposed to Gruumsh's accomplishments and failures, that that we might vote for the individual who would guide the Orcish race the best. ;)
Stigger 07-23-07, 03:22 PM	feh, screw Sauron, I'm voting for them getting out from under anyones thumb and going it on their own for a while... can't possibly make it any worse a situation for them. ;)
Lord Karsus 07-23-07, 03:39 PM	feh, screw Sauron, I'm voting for them getting out from under anyones thumb and going it on their own for a while... can't possibly make it any worse a situation for them. ;) -Enter Athar.
creyzi4zb12 07-24-07, 02:14 AM	Bleh!! Sauron is from Tolkien, we should think of better imaginary circumstances instead of that. Like Drizzt finding out that he is an orc. And all that time he was suffering from a severe case of madness thinking he was drow, he bangs his head with his scimitar and takes a look at the pool to realize that his face has transformed into a pig. He turns his back to find Cattie-brie and realizes he had just made love to a gnoll.
msatran 07-24-07, 02:48 AM	Thank you for that image, I am now thoroughly repulsed.
creyzi4zb12 07-24-07, 03:22 AM	There should be a forgotten realm story book dedicated to orcs. Have any of u read "Grunts" by Mary Gentle? "The Killing Spirit"? Those were good books.
GothicDan 07-24-07, 07:28 AM	I think infatuation is a form of insanity when taken to such extremes. That being said, I'd rather Sauron be used as a basis of inspiration for Bane. Remember, Orcs are by far and large Chaotic in 3E.
Stigger 07-24-07, 08:56 AM	Think its well past the point of infatuation by now, moving well into the realms of obsession...
Lord Karsus 07-24-07, 09:19 AM	-And, there is a fine line between obsession and insanity...
Stigger 07-24-07, 09:22 AM	Nah, obsession is a form of insanity...
Lord Karsus 07-24-07, 09:39 AM	-Yeah, I got the quote wrong. It's genius and insanity.
Smilin_Bandit 07-24-07, 09:06 PM	What I don't understand is how Obould became the chosen of Grummsh. The last time I checked, Obould was a human warrior that got reincarnated into an orc. Could it be that Grummsh is tired of his followers being so derned dumb and easily thwarted? I don't know, I'm just spit ballin here!
Green Elven Vampire 07-24-07, 09:14 PM	Gruumsh isn't all that bad to be honest. I bet he could beat Malar in a fight.
Smilin_Bandit 07-24-07, 09:25 PM	Oh absolutely he could. He came closer to killing Correllon than Llolth and Malar did combined.
Stigger 07-24-07, 09:30 PM	Mindless savagery does have certain advantages in a fight... unfortunately, its not such a great trait when one wants to actually build a society...
Smilin_Bandit 07-24-07, 09:39 PM	I do believe that there might be something to Obould's history of once being human. His intelligence is most definitely a part of that. It looks to me like Salvatore is going to go old school in this creation and bring some obscure storyline to the surface in it.
Stigger 07-24-07, 09:44 PM	Never heard that bit actually, but as I've never read the books about him beyond whats shown up in sourcebooks, that's probably not surprising...
Smilin_Bandit 07-24-07, 09:52 PM	Obould's being a reincarnated human is in a sourcebook. It would take me hours to find, if my source isn't in storage, but I think its in FR5 The Savage Frontier.
Zevox 07-24-07, 11:06 PM	Bleh!! Sauron is from Tolkien, we should think of better imaginary circumstances instead of that. Like Drizzt finding out that he is an orc. And all that time he was suffering from a severe case of madness thinking he was drow, he bangs his head with his scimitar and takes a look at the pool to realize that his face has transformed into a pig. He turns his back to find Cattie-brie and realizes he had just made love to a gnoll. :uh-huh: And you scoff at the Sauron suggestion? Excuse me, I need to soak my brain in acid now. What I don't understand is how Obould became the chosen of Grummsh. The last time I checked, Obould was a human warrior that got reincarnated into an orc. We don't actually know if hes a Chosen of Gruumsh - thats pure speculation. But I've never heard of him being a reincarnated human - where'd you hear that? And are you sure its not a different Obould? Hes not the only known Orc to bear that name - it seems to be one passed down in his clan. Gruumsh isn't all that bad to be honest. I bet he could beat Malar in a fight. Right, because his skill in combat against a lesser God is a great way to judge how good of a Deity he is. ;) Zevox
Smilin_Bandit 07-24-07, 11:29 PM	I can't remember which source it is for sure. It's either Waterdeep and the North, or FR5 The Savage Frontier. It specifically spoke of Obould, leader of the orcs that took the dwarven city of Felbarr and renamed it the Citadel of Many Arrows. He took the name Obould Many Arrows. It spoke of how he was a high level fighter that died and in his reincarnation was reborn as an Orc. Forced to live among the orcs of the north, he survived through skill with the blade and then forced his will upon certain weaker tribes gathering them together to form a much larger, stronger tribe. I don't remember much more about it, but it spoke about his being the influence behind the toppling of Felbarr, which at the time was a human garrison for Silverymoon with over 3000 men guarding her battlements. Sorry I don't have more info off the top of my head. It's been almost 20 years since I read this info.
Zevox 07-25-07, 12:40 AM	It specifically spoke of Obould, leader of the orcs that took the dwarven city of Felbarr and renamed it the Citadel of Many Arrows. It was a different Obould, then. Citadel Felbarr fell to Orcs over three hundred years ago (see the FRCS, page 172), and the Obould that led that conquest is long dead. The current Obould is just the one that lost it to the Dwarves. Zevox
Smilin_Bandit 07-25-07, 12:23 PM	The Savage Frontier sourcebook states that Felbarr was handed over to Silverymoon and fifty years after a contingency of 3000 troops were sent to create a garrison it was attacked by the orcs. The source is for a campaign set in the time period of 1358 DR and doesn't have any dates listed for the fall of the garrison, but it doesn't sound like its over 300 years in the past. Where are you getting the timeline for this? It might clear up some misconceptions that I have. In addition, the other source that I read that detailed Obould Many Arrows was a source for after the 1358 DR time period, so I'm pretty sure its referring to the present Obould. Again...I can't find the source, so I could be mistaken, but I don't think so.
Muddman 07-25-07, 05:39 PM	Obould Many-Arrows could be the decendant of the Obould that conquered Felbar. I recall him bragging of a orc royal blood line.
Zevox 07-25-07, 09:32 PM	The Savage Frontier sourcebook states that Felbarr was handed over to Silverymoon and fifty years after a contingency of 3000 troops were sent to create a garrison it was attacked by the orcs. The source is for a campaign set in the time period of 1358 DR and doesn't have any dates listed for the fall of the garrison, but it doesn't sound like its over 300 years in the past. Where are you getting the timeline for this? It might clear up some misconceptions that I have. In addition, the other source that I read that detailed Obould Many Arrows was a source for after the 1358 DR time period, so I'm pretty sure its referring to the present Obould. Again...I can't find the source, so I could be mistaken, but I don't think so. Like I said in my post, FRCS, page 172, the info on Citadel Felbarr. Citadel Felbarr (Small City, 6,987): A former Dwarvern Citadel given over to humans when the Dwarves retreated into deeper holds, Citadel Felbarr fell to Orcs three hundred years ago. Renamed the Citadel of Many Arrows by its new masters, it stood as an example of how Orcs could conquer the weaker folk of the south. Centuries later, in 1367 DR, a huge Orc hoard moving south against the settled cities paused in front of the Orc citadel, held by a chief calling himself King Obould. Instead of pressing on to the human lands, the horde besieged their fellows inside. After a four-month siege, the invaders broke down the gates and entered the main keep, but a strong Dwarven force fell on both tribes and siezed the citadel out from under the Orcs' tusks. King Emerus Warcrown (LG male Shield Dwarf Ftr 16) took control of the citadel, hanging on through the first bitter winter until six hundred Dwarf reinforcements could march up from the south to join his forces. Warcrown's people are now well established and determined not to lose their citadel again. Meanwhile, north in the Spine of the World, Obould, who escaped the fall of his citadel, is gathering forces for another assault upon the lands he once mastered. He is aware of the Silver marches defense pact and it attempting to determine how best to strike the alliance's weak spots. The FRCS has the then-current date as 1372 DR, so that would put the conquest of the Citadel around the mid or late 1000's DR. Obould Many-Arrows could be the decendant of the Obould that conquered Felbar. I recall him bragging of a orc royal blood line. Entirely possible. I suspect thats the case (hence the reason he has the same name and even title as that Obould). Zevox
Smilin_Bandit 07-26-07, 12:51 AM	None of that makes sense and doesn't correspond with Volo's Guide to the north, The Savage Frontier, Waterdeep and the North, or Elminster's Ecologies. The timeline doesn't work. In addition, nowhere in what you posted does it say that there was more than one Obould throughout the cities history. This is a perfect example of having too many writers working on a history for a particular area. The new source simply doesn't correspond with the facts from the other older sources I listed.
MarkusTay63 07-26-07, 09:53 AM	Its a well-established fact that there were two seperate Oboulds. It probably just started out as the same guy, until someone actually did the map and realized you couldn't have a three hundred year old Orc running around. The same thing happened to Wulgreth... Although I think that was more a case of two different designers borrowing a plot-hook from a completely different game system (Dragonquest). I'm pretty certain that in one of the sourcebooks it specifically points out the second Obould is a direct decendent of the first.
Eli_the_Tanner 07-26-07, 10:51 AM	Is there any information on the current Oboulds time in Citadel Felbarr (beyond simply that he lost it) such as how many orcs he had, whether he had his sons before or after the move to the spine of the world etc.
boards 07-26-07, 08:44 PM	I dont see why Grumnsh would be upset that Obuld is changing the orcs from a horde to an army or city. Afterall the Grey Orcs that invaded Mulhorand and Unther were somewhat more organised than modern orcs yet they still had Grumnsh as the head of their pantheon. I dont see him getting all snooty just because some of his followers are starting to have a more structured army. Now if they were to settle down and become like the orcs up above Damara?, then he would get grumpy.
ElberethSilverleaf 07-27-07, 11:42 PM	Evermeet needs to send in an elite squad of duskblades, fighter/mages, and swordsingers to take out Obould's smelly a**s.
ElberethSilverleaf 07-27-07, 11:46 PM	Hey shouldn't Cattie-Brie be in her mid to late 40's by now?? (god that atrocious name always makes me think of smelly cheese)
Lord Karsus 07-28-07, 08:35 PM	Evermeet needs to send in an elite squad of duskblades, fighter/mages, and swordsingers to take out Obould's smelly a**s. -I think you spelled ass wrong. ;)
ElberethSilverleaf 07-29-07, 12:41 AM	-I think you spelled ass wrong. ;) Well we're not on the "mature" board so I didn't want to upset a WizO...