Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ExtinctionBeta 10-10-07, 11:49 AM	I know that this is really more of a "game" forum, but I can't stand the candlekeep. They are hardcore suckups that see every book no less than to perfection. Before I spend like, $40 on this 5 book series, I wanted to ask a few questions to see if it's worth it. I don't care if you reveal spoilers. 1) Who are the attackers that will destory the Drow? I don't want to read it if it's anything other than humanoid...im so sick of seeing dragons/giants/demons as the "bad guys". Evil vs Evil is such a stupid plot. I would really enjoy reading somthing about Paladins being like "we had enough" and raiding the under city. 2) Why is thier 5 books? I hope at least 2 of them are based on intense battles. As all the drow banding together to survive instead of having thier stupid house wars. Is there 5 books just because they wanted to "new" authors to co-work books together? 3) I am pretty sure that the drow don't die off...seeing once again that I said Salvantore can never let characters die.....so can somone at least tell me that they are dramaticlly affected by this war? As in...too few of drow to do house wars again? Or possibly after the events they decide to counter attack upon the surface? 4) Does Lolth actually come out of her stupid hole and do somthing to save her so beloved race? Or does she only make an appreance at the last book? I would like to see a deity do battle, I haven't read a book yet to see a God partake in war...not saying that they aren't books where they do..but the most of deity interaction i've read is the twlight war series...and they only talk.
Alediran 10-10-07, 12:00 PM	I know that this is really more of a "game" forum, but I can't stand the candlekeep. They are hardcore suckups that see every book no less than to perfection. Before I spend like, $40 on this 5 book series, I wanted to ask a few questions to see if it's worth it. I don't care if you reveal spoilers. 1) Who are the attackers that will destory the Drow? I don't want to read it if it's anything other than humanoid...im so sick of seeing dragons/giants/demons as the "bad guys". Evil vs Evil is such a stupid plot. I would really enjoy reading somthing about Paladins being like "we had enough" and raiding the under city. There are many attackers, some are duergars, some are Tanarruks comanded by a Cambion, one is a Drow-Dragon, other is an illithid and of course other drow, including a lichdrow. 2) Why is thier 5 books? I hope at least 2 of them are based on intense battles. As all the drow banding together to survive instead of having thier stupid house wars. Is there 5 books just because they wanted to "new" authors to co-work books together? There are 6 books actually. And there are intense battles in all six books 3) I am pretty sure that the drow don't die off...seeing once again that I said Salvantore can never let characters die.....so can somone at least tell me that they are dramaticlly affected by this war? As in...too few of drow to do house wars again? Or possibly after the events they decide to counter attack upon the surface? Only two members from the main group survive, the rest I'll leave you to read their fates. 4) Does Lolth actually come out of her stupid hole and do somthing to save her so beloved race? Or does she only make an appreance at the last book? I would like to see a deity do battle, I haven't read a book yet to see a God partake in war...not saying that they aren't books where they do..but the most of deity interaction i've read is the twlight war series...and they only talk. Lolth is in silence until the end of the fifth book, where she awakens and the drow of Menzoberranzan recover their divine magic in the worst moment of the battle and save their life and city
ExtinctionBeta 10-10-07, 12:10 PM	Wow...what's the point of calling books extinction if they survive? Are you kidding? Same thing will happen in the twilight war series...fricken Cale will somehow by himself stop all the "bad guys". Shar won't win. Eleminster survives from hell......Drizzt and Artemis hate each other and fight like 5 times and never die...Szass Tam will lose the civil war in undead and unholy. Can someone give me a author that is not afraid of writting somthing new for a change instead of having a Lord of the Rings or Harry potter fairy tale happly ever after ending? Please, this is a serious question..no author can satisfy my taste because of thier limited imagination.
MarkusTay63 10-10-07, 12:21 PM	Actually, in hindsight, I get the impression the entire series was created just to give Lolth a 'boost' so she will survive into 4e. Just my opinion, of course, but another example of WotC's self-serving novels. I enjoyed the first couple, but then it was all down hill. Having so many authors write the same characters made those characters appear to have multiple-personality disorder. Their behaviours became so erratic that even for chaotic Drow the believability level went right out the window. In fact, up until the 4e announcments, I thought the entire series was rather pointless. :bored:
Old Sage 10-10-07, 12:23 PM	I know that this is really more of a "game" forum, but I can't stand the candlekeep. They are hardcore suckups that see every book no less than to perfection.Excuse me!?! Your statement here clearly indicates that you've not spent hardly enough time at Candlekeep to actually make such judgments. I'll have you know that Candlekeep is home to many diverse opinions on just about every novel published for the Forgotten Realms world. From the Book Clubs, -- which features select novels, to the Forgotten Realms Novel Discussions portion of the forum -- that allows scribes to participate in discussions for every FR novel published. You'll find plenty of discussion, offering a wide variety of critical assessments and opinions on most of the FR novels that've been published. I would ask that you make more of an effort to look over what we have to offer at Candlekeep, before you make such comments in the future.
ExtinctionBeta 10-10-07, 12:24 PM	Actually, in hindsight, I get the impression the entire series was created just to give Lolth a 'boost' so she will survive into 4e. Just my opinion, of course, but another example of WotC's self-serving novels. I enjoyed the first couple, but then it was all down hill. Having so many authors write the same characters made those characters appear to have multiple-personality disorder. Their behaviours became so erratic that even for chaotic Drow the believability level went right out the window. In fact, up until the 4e announcments, I thought the entire series was rather pointless. :bored: So you're saying that in order for Wizard Coast to have more money on thier stupid game they ruin the story of The Forgotten Realms series? Damn you nerdy kids and your dice games!
ExtinctionBeta 10-10-07, 12:26 PM	Excuse me!?! Your statement here clearly indicates that you've not spent hardly enough time at Candlekeep to actually make such judgments. I'll have you know that Candlekeep is home to many diverse opinions on just about every novel published for the Forgotten Realms world. From the Book Clubs, -- which features select novels, to the Forgotten Realms Novel Discussions portion of the forum -- that allows scribes to participate in discussions for every FR novel published. You'll find plenty of discussion, offering a wide variety of critical assessments and opinions on most of the FR novels that've been published. I would ask that you make more of an effort to look over what we have to offer at Candlekeep, before you make such comments in the future. No, you don't seem to understand. All I see when somone questions the author is: Great book loved every page...really enjoyed it! And the next question the ask is for the the author to spoil the story for them, or why this character felt a certain way. I never see anyone ask for a bit of more battle,character development,detail of area...everyone sees every page to be the bible for them
MarkusTay63 10-10-07, 12:34 PM	So you're saying that in order for Wizard Coast to have more money on thier stupid game they ruin the story of The Forgotten Realms series? Damn you nerdy kids and your dice games!I gaurantee I'm older then YOU, and if you want to read GOOD fiction, why are you reading FR novels? I have never read anything by any FR author that has taken place outside of FR - I only tolerate the books because I love the world. :cool:
Old Sage 10-10-07, 12:35 PM	No, you don't seem to understand. All I see when somone questions the author is: Great book loved every page...really enjoyed it! And the next question the ask is for the the author to spoil the story for them, or why this character felt a certain way. I never see anyone ask for a bit of more battle,character development,detail of area...everyone sees every page to be the bible for themAgain, the very fact that you claim this is so, tells me you're completely unfamiliar with just how diverse novel discussions can be at Candlekeep. In my five years at Candlekeep, I've seen plenty of novel discussions that both promote and criticise many of the FR novels published. Scribes are curious about the characters, interested in the plots, and intrigued by the thoughts the authors are often more than willing to share. I don't see how that's a bad thing -- certainly not to the extent you're claiming here. If you have a particular question about a novel, you're more than welcome to post it in a novel discussion at Candlekeep. Don't let your ill-conceived opinions of the forums themselves, prevent you from participating in what could potentially be a thoroughly enjoyable novel discussion.
ExtinctionBeta 10-10-07, 12:36 PM	I gaurantee I'm older then YOU, and if you want to read GOOD fiction, why are you reading FR novels? I have never read anything by any FR author that has taken place outside of FR - I only tolerate the books because I love the world. :cool: Can you recommend me some then?
ExtinctionBeta 10-10-07, 12:42 PM	Again, the very fact that you claim this is so, tells me you're completely unfamiliar with just how diverse novel discussions can be at Candlekeep. In my five years at Candlekeep, I've seen plenty of novel discussions that both promote and criticise many of the FR novels published. Scribes are curious about the characters, interested in the plots, and intrigued by the thoughts the authors are often more than willing to share. I don't see how that's a bad thing -- certainly not to the extent you're claiming here. If you have a particular question about a novel, you're more than welcome to post it in a novel discussion at Candlekeep. Don't let your ill-conceived opinions of the forums themselves, prevent you from participating in what could potentially be a thoroughly enjoyable novel discussion. No, I've already made decent points to authors on this forums and e-mails, and they see their books as perfect. Cale is just like Drizzt: A good person that is an outcast from an majority of a evil society(Shadovar/Drow). Has a hard on when with his freinds and would cry a river if anything happen to them (Goes for both). Has even battles that almost goes hit for hit with thier rival and neither will die (Cale-Rivalen/Drizzt-Artemis). Yet Paul disagrees without a counter-point. Somone disagreeing with an author? Blastphemy! Send me a link of a conflict debate between a reader and author. By the way, I am not bashing Evris Cale...I think I hate Drizzt more than any other character in Forgotten realms. Ironically my most liked character is Artemis. Same Author of my most hated and loved characters. And if anyone read the topic on this forum "Stats on Evris Cale". Everyone sucked up to him. His novels could have been the bible to them. I wanted to ask a few questions, none bashing of course, but decided not to in order to safe myself from hardcore suck ups defending him in order to get on his good side. If I see an actor as an idiot, I will tell him if we were to meet. Authors are no differnt for me.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-10-07, 01:30 PM	If you think the posters at Candlekeep are "suck ups" who only ever extoll the virtues of WotCs products, then you obviously have never read any of my posts there.;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-10-07, 01:36 PM	And if anyone read the topic on this forum "Stats on Evris Cale". Everyone sucked up to him. His novels could have been the bible to them. I wanted to ask a few questions, none bashing of course, but decided not to in order to safe myself from hardcore suck ups defending him in order to get on his good side. If I see an actor as an idiot, I will tell him if we were to meet. Authors are no differnt for me. See, this is why I've given up trying to help you. I told you you need to think more about how you present your opinions if you don't want to be ignored or thought of as a troll. Yet, politeness continues to elude you. Paul Kemp doesn't seem to mind people who disagree with him, but after making a very rude post about his work (basically calling him a "crap author"), how can you be surprised when people started calling you a troll? And while I'm on the subject of being polite to authors, you need to be more considerate of all the other posters as well. That means refraining from bashing Christians, bashing gay people, and making blatantly misogynistic remarks (I've see you do all those things). If you really wanted to clean up your act, I think you would have by now.
ExtinctionBeta 10-10-07, 01:37 PM	If you think the posters at Candlekeep are "suck ups" who only ever extoll the virtues of WotCs products, then you obviously have never read any of my posts there.;) Yes I have, and I been waiting for the right moment to bring you into this debate. *Note* Debate: None-flamming,None-Arguing. Every author you have posted on, you said how much you enjoyed the book. Sure you mention you missed a character such as Varra from shadowbred...but as I said, this only further adds to my point. No one sees authors with flaws. You may think I am pestimstic...but the reason I only post negitavley is because the novels I have read and not posted on means I have yet to see flaws in it. Posting about somthing being great, is no more than a waste of time. If you tell an author a flaw they made, they are sure not to do it again. They know you like thier books because you bought them...thier paycheck says so..Remeber, it's doubt that gets you an education.
ExtinctionBeta 10-10-07, 01:40 PM	See, this is why I've given up trying to help you. I told you you need to think more about how you present your opinions if you don't want to be ignored or thought of as a troll. Yet, politeness continues to elude you. Paul Kemp doesn't seem to mind people who disagree with him, but after making a very rude post about his work (basically calling him a "crap author"), how can you be surprised when people started calling you a troll? And while I'm on the subject of being polite to authors, you need to be more considerate of all the other posters as well. That means refraining from bashing Christians, bashing gay people, and making blatantly misogynistic remarks (I've see you do all those things). If you really wanted to clean up your act, I think you would have by now. You are no better than me friend, everyone else on this topic has posted back to me respectfully. Never have I seen you show me anything other than rudeness. So in a sense, you are a hippocrite. And ever time you post, my topic gets off subject. Please leave me alone unless you want to talk about the spider queen. Don't take it to heart but, you of all people don't offend me when you talk of my "bad" personallity. Back to subject, what did you think of this series Rinonalyrna Fathomlin? I have yet to read it!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-10-07, 01:46 PM	Yes I have, and I been waiting for the right moment to bring you into this debate. *Note* Debate: None-flamming,None-Arguing. Oh, please. There's nothing to debate, and I don't feel like debating with anyone right now to begin with. Every author you have posted on, you said how much you enjoyed the book. Sure you mention you missed a character such as Varra from shadowbred...but as I said, this only further adds to my point. No one sees authors with flaws. You may think I am pestimstic...but the reason I only post negitavley is because the novels I have read and not posted on means I have yet to see flaws in it. Posting about somthing being great, is no more than a waste of time. If you tell an author a flaw they made, they are sure not to do it again. They know you like thier books because you bought them...thier paycheck says so..Remeber, it's doubt that gets you an education. I guess you've never read my (much more substantial) comments in the Book Club. Heck, look up my comments about Final Gate and see just how wrong you are.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-10-07, 01:48 PM	You are no better than me friend, everyone else on this topic has posted back to me respectfully. Never have I seen you show me anything other than rudeness. So in a sense, you are a hippocrite. And ever time you post, my topic gets off subject. Please leave me alone unless you want to talk about the spider queen. Don't take it to heart but, you of all people don't offend me when you talk of my "bad" personallity. Blah blah blah. I told you my opinion, take it or leave it. Back to subject, what did you think of this series Rinonalyrna Fathomlin? I have yet to read it! I've only read the first two books, so I can't really comment much on it as a series.
GothicDan 10-10-07, 01:56 PM	Wow...what's the point of calling books extinction if they survive? Are you kidding? Same thing will happen in the twilight war series...fricken Cale will somehow by himself stop all the "bad guys". Shar won't win. Eleminster survives from hell......Drizzt and Artemis hate each other and fight like 5 times and never die...Szass Tam will lose the civil war in undead and unholy. Can someone give me a author that is not afraid of writting somthing new for a change instead of having a Lord of the Rings or Harry potter fairy tale happly ever after ending? Please, this is a serious question..no author can satisfy my taste because of thier limited imagination. I don't understand. If they wrote a book in which it was based on Sharrans winning, then the "good guys," as you define them (that is, the protagonists of the books) would win. If Szass Tam won and took over all of Thay, than the protagonist would win. Novels aren't about "good guys" and "bad guys," but antagonists, protagonists, and the squishy ethical jello around them.
ExtinctionBeta 10-10-07, 01:59 PM	I don't understand. If they wrote a book in which it was based on Sharrans winning, then the "good guys," as you define them (that is, the protagonists of the books) would win. If Szass Tam won and took over all of Thay, than the protagonist would win. Novels aren't about "good guys" and "bad guys," but antagonists, protagonists, and the squishy ethical jello around them. What? Since when was Shar on the "good" guys side? As I remeber Cale is trying to stop Rivalen? Shar wants everyone dead...how is that the "good guys" winning?I just smoked 2 more cigerates than I usually trying to understand this post.
MarkusTay63 10-10-07, 02:02 PM	Can you recommend me some then?Anything by Michael Moorcock - especially the Elric novels. You'll find out where certain game aspects have come from, like the new cosmology, and also who Drizzt is based on. Jack Vance's The Dying Earth is a must for all fans of D&D - thats where the magic system comes from. Don't let the cover fool you - it's pure fantasy. The original Thomas Covenent novels were excellent, but I didn't care for the second trilogy. David Eddings stuff is good, albeit a bit generic. I think his Belgariad was the best series, IMHO. The first few books of either The Wheel of Time, or the Sword of Truth series. After the 4th or 5th book both series start getting stale. And for a fantasy with a sci-fi twist, try either the World of Tiers by Philip José Farmer, or the Chronicles of Amber by Roger Zelazny - both excellent series if you like planes-hopping. And then, if you're going cross genre, read Dune - It's a masterpiece. ANYTHING by Asimov is also worth reading, but you need to like pure sci-fi - no fantasy there. I also like Robert Silverberg's Majipoor novels, but they are a matter of taste - lots of descriptive text describing the very realistic world. If you like scenery, then it's worth reading. There are thousands of others, but I cut my teeth on most of those. ;)
ExtinctionBeta 10-10-07, 02:09 PM	I hear alot of good things from Raymond E Feist. that people recommend me to read because the "bad guys" win alot. They say what makes him better than most is, when a "main character" is imprisioned..there is no escape...no quest of prevailing...that character simplily dies. If you read any novels from this author can you confirm some of this and tell me where to start off.
Old Sage 10-10-07, 08:03 PM	No, I've already made decent points to authors on this forums and e-mails, and they see their books as perfect. Cale is just like Drizzt: A good person that is an outcast from an majority of a evil society(Shadovar/Drow). Has a hard on when with his freinds and would cry a river if anything happen to them (Goes for both). Has even battles that almost goes hit for hit with thier rival and neither will die (Cale-Rivalen/Drizzt-Artemis). Yet Paul disagrees without a counter-point. Somone disagreeing with an author? Blastphemy! Send me a link of a conflict debate between a reader and author. By the way, I am not bashing Evris Cale...I think I hate Drizzt more than any other character in Forgotten realms. Ironically my most liked character is Artemis. Same Author of my most hated and loved characters. *shakes head* Forget it! I've not interest in debating this with you further. You seem content in your ignorance, and I'm tired of trying to weave my way through what you incorrectly believe to be the "trend" in Candlekeep novel discussions. :ahem:
Selvarin 10-11-07, 12:17 AM	Just a few points. 1) Writers do this for a living as well as for the love it, thus time = money. And one can easily waste a few afternoons arguing points about their books with people before deciding 'it is what it is' and going back to doing what they're paid for. And they aren't hypocrites if they're paid to write something into a storyline--if they're contracted to do so then that is it. If they create their own world for a book series and turn a profit then of course they gain more leverage/autonomy to push the storyline the way they see fit...although I've yet to see an author go against their publisher and essentially kill a book series (or world) to pursue something else. Usually they'll do a trilogy or two and try something different. Very few successful artists have taken that walk, the cartoonist for Calvin & Hobbes being one of them. 2) Erevis and Rivalen are more or less brothers-in-spirit now, no longer trying to slit each others' throats. And he is similar to Drizzt in one respect, aside from being written as lethal fighters they both think about moral/ethical dilemmas. In Erevis' case it's often been about serving a god he despises, and trying to do 'good' (little 'd') with the least harm possible while working towards his (and Mask's) goals. He still does some rough things, and as with other recent novels it's pushing the FR to 4th Edition. And it is pretty dark--he's essentially lost the woman he loved because of the life he leads, is losing another, lost a very good friend...his country is being torn apart, plus his former student has turned to the Shades for help. It isn't a pretty thing to watch. Chances are when the final book is published even if Erevis survives there may not be anything left for him. 3) The WotSQ series was much ado about nothing, even if several of the novels were good. More or less it was about Lolth pulling up stakes and moving, and about her transformation...to a Greater Power, I believe. So, besides killing off a bunch of drow there was that. (This is a gross oversimplification but that's the overview from my vantage point.) The Lady Penitent trilogy has done much more in a short time. Granted, I like both series but the newer one has had more ramifications IMO. Both are good reads. ~finis~