Where was the Simbul during ToT [Archive] - Wizards Community

Where was the Simbul during ToT [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
creyzi4zb12
07-10-07, 11:55 AM Just wondering why she never appeared. Does anybody know why? She's one of the biggest wiz's in Faerun and she disappears in such an important event.
arveiaturace_nartheling
07-10-07, 01:40 PM she was i quess just hiding from the farmers remember she had not way to use magic safely
Lord_Madrigan
07-10-07, 01:41 PM She was most likely still in Aglarond trying to keep the people calm.
With her own magic all out of wack she rightfull though it
would be a good idea to stay close to home.

I can just imagine that Thay was causing some problems
if only form the fallout of chaos Thay was probably suffering
Faraer
07-10-07, 01:47 PM What makes you think she disappeared? Some of her activities at that time are seen in the Shadow of the Avatar trilogy.
Lord Karsus
07-10-07, 03:01 PM -Remember, just because a specific NPC or character is not mentioned doesn't mean that they "disappeared" or anything out of the ordinary happened.
MarkusTay63
07-10-07, 03:33 PM With her magic and that of her constituents going 'haywire', I'm sure she had her hands full, and also had to be twice as 'on-gaurd' against Thayan attacks. The fact that Thayan magic was working just as badly would not have made a difference, they may have viewed it as the perfect time to attack Aglarond with thier conventional armies.
MerrikCale
07-10-07, 09:31 PM she was making a booty call
Green Elven Vampire
07-11-07, 12:39 AM If I remember correctly, in the novel Simbulcrap, she was playing quarters for dibbs on a broomstick with neon lights on the bottom for her sister Sylune!
The Simbul
07-11-07, 03:11 AM The Simbul likely was primarily in Aglarond, with some scenes in Shadowdale. Like all of Mystra's Chosen she would have been safeguarding a portion of Mystra's divine power within her until Midnight's ascension as the new Mystra. The Shadow of the Avatar trilogy and memories in Elminster in Hell cover the Simbul during the time of troubles, and the latter of the two contains a specific scenario under which the Red Wizards attacked Aglarond and were routed because of the wild nature of magic.Elminster in Hell
Chapter 3, The Day Magic Died

In Aglarond, the Simbul forbade the use of magic against Thayan raiders, telling her men to trust instead in their swords. When the Red Wizards leading the strike against Aglarond tried to hurl lightning against the Simbul's men, their spells instead brought forth falls of flowers, crystal spheres, and mud. In the end, a Red Wizard sought escape by giving the raiders' stolen boat the power of flight, but his Art instead turned it to old and crumbling cheese, and it fell apart beneath them. They sank into the cold waters of the Sea of Dhurg. Only a handful emerged to the embrace of the Simbul's spell chains.Arguably any scenario which causes magic to become unreliable works to Aglarond's favor in a Thayan invasion scenario. Aglarond has numerous geographical defenses which inhibit Thayan incursions even when magic is fully functional, thus with the Weave's intermittently unreliable state during the Time of Troubles they are only more secured. While some of Aglarond's defensive forces have elite contingents of wizards and sorcerers (the Army of the Green Drake at Emmech, the Simbul's Guard in Velprintalar), they do not constitute a majority of the forces those individual armies, and therefore unreliability of magic is less harmful to the Aglarondan side.

In addition, I imagine a great deal of Thay's conventional forces--primarily slaves, magically controlled undead, or abused monstrous humanoids--would be more apt to rout (or simply flee in the chaos before a battle) when they know their masters do not have a reliable means to locate or punish them. Meanwhile their magically adept or enhanced forces, such as the all-wizard Griffon Legion or magical siege units bearing Thayan bombards, would serve little more than battlefield decoration if one assumes that casting of spells is as unreliable as presented in the lore and stories.
Red_Wizard
07-11-07, 03:15 PM Indeed. The one thing I was left wondering however, was whether it was During or after the ToT the secret of Thay's power ceased functioning.

Most literature would suggest that it was During the failing of magic, but the audacity to attack in such a weakened state seems unreasonable even for Thayans. Which in turn leads me to believe it was as magic returned that it ceased to function.
MarkusTay63
07-11-07, 03:40 PM Poppycock!

Without any magic, Thay has TONS of regular troops, plenty enough to invade ANYONE. They quite possibly have the largest standing army in Faerūn, and the only thing that keeps them from using all those troops together is Thay's inability to work well with itself.

If the Tharchions had managed to set aside their differences, they could have easily overun Aglarond with a 100,000 Gnolls or more. Screw terrain advantages, we are talking about humanoids here that are used to such conditions, and officers willing to lose thousands of 'men' in stupid uphill charges.

The only thing that saved both Aglarond and Rashemen during the ToT, is that the Zulkirs were all hiding under their beds from each other. Magic not working right would have scared them more then a luncheon with the Simbul!

Most of the high-magic types, including entire nations like Thay and Halrua, stayed at home and waited it out. Things were too unpredictable for anyone's plans (except maybe Entropy/Tiamet). The fact that the scene in EiH happened just indicates lone individuals, and stupid ones at that, were still going about "business as usual". Thats how Thay weeds out its weak - its called natural selection, and you don't see the Zulkirs themselves playing that game with the Simbul.

she was making a booty callI was going to say "on top of El", but then I remembered he was 'incapacitated' at the time. ;)
Boda
07-11-07, 04:31 PM Yep, got to agree with ya Markus.Numbers were on thay's side, but that little:''trust nobody attitude'' is likely to messed things up. Besides, all these high magic dudes were scared of what was going on.
Krash
07-11-07, 06:06 PM Future scribings will give an insight into how "poor little Aglarond" has managed to withstand the "sheer might of Thay" through the years.

-- George Krashos
ClobberinTime
07-11-07, 08:57 PM You guys are thinking all wrongheaded about this, a mageocracy where 1% of the population holds all of the power through the use of their magic, and now the source of their dominion is gone? What happens?

They gather their slaves and attack some other country?

No armies of CE gnolls go freaking crazy burning and looting everything in sight. High level Fighters who are generals see their time to strike or at least peel part of the country away. What is Szass Tamm going to do come and touch attack me for level drain.

The idea that Thay could attack anyone or anything at that time is ridiculous, ridiculous I say, supercalafragalisticexpialodocious...... ...........
MarkusTay63
07-12-07, 03:55 AM Magic wasn't gone, just hard to perform correctly. I would say there was a base 5% per level of the caster of getting the spell right. You would need to roll under your level on a D20, in other words.

Add in all the usual D20 modifiers - a one is a critical failure (spell backfire or worse), and 20 would be a critical hit (think 'city-sized' fireball). :D

Anyhow, the high-ups had a decent chance of casting correctly most of the time, although they probably didn't want to risk it.

Also, I think getting those 100,000 Gnolls the hell out of Thay and attacking someone else might have been priority one, before they relized what was going on and attacked their own masters.
creyzi4zb12
07-12-07, 07:14 AM I've got an idea...What happened if the orcgate wars happened on ToT?
MarkusTay63
07-13-07, 01:57 AM A LOT of dead gods, thats what.
creyzi4zb12
07-13-07, 09:13 AM EDIT: DUE TO DOUBLE POST
creyzi4zb12
07-13-07, 09:14 AM Errrr.....
Am I missing something here?............
Oh yeah I remember!!

SPOILERS ON WHITE.

:cheer: Give me O!! Give me R!! Give me S!! Put it all together!! What does it say? ORCS!!: :cheer:

:dancin: orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc!! :dancin:

EDIT: OMG!! I just Double posted!!
ShadezofDis
07-13-07, 10:03 AM Errrr.....
Am I missing something here?............

:cheer: Give me O!! Give me R!! Give me S!! Put it all together!! What does it say? ORCS!! :cheer:

Yep, no one gave you a C.

Those orcs, I tell ya. :looloo:
ShadezofDis
07-13-07, 10:10 AM I would assume that Thay would really be incapable of much of anything during the ToT. I think that the majority of the events revolved around the Zulkirs trying to figure out what was going on (in a very cautious manner) and the Tharchions working to make sure the country didn't blow up on them.

Of course a slave revolt wouldn't be instant, the slaves wouldn't even know what's going on and I assume there was a lot of effort put into making sure they didn't have a clue what was going on.

Thay really is like a boiling pot with the Red Wizards keeping the lid on, if they were to slip then Thay would burst like an overripe melon. That's my interpretation anyhow. :)
Lord Karsus
07-13-07, 11:03 PM I've got an idea...What happened if the orcgate wars happened on ToT?

-The Mulhorandi Wizards would have opened a portal to the Demiplane of Suduku, and would have completely lost track of time playing entertaining mind games.
Zsych
07-14-07, 01:11 AM Wonder why no one has bothered setting up some sort of defence to situations like the ToT. One would think all magical kingdoms would've been terrified of a repeat.

... Simplest solution... portals from other worlds.
Gives you something to work with at least(and potentially has strange effects on FR, if inter-world travel increases in some nations)
MarkusTay63
07-14-07, 03:37 AM I wouldn't trust a portal from another world either. Just because it originated on another plane doesn't mean you won't come out in Faerūn inside-out, or something equally gross.
Zsych
07-14-07, 03:50 AM You could put in a place/world known to have stable magic.

... or you could put lots of portals on multiple worlds, and then test them some, if you need to use them.

Even if magic on Toril goes down, off-world magic should be okay, and not being Weave dependent, its laws shouldn't change.
XHereticX
07-14-07, 09:38 AM -The Mulhorandi Wizards would have opened a portal to the Demiplane of Suduku, and would have completely lost track of time playing entertaining mind games.

Its Sodoku by the way Karsus;)

As I recall, she was for a time in Shadowdale trying to contact Mystra with the help of the other chosen.
Lord Karsus
07-14-07, 05:47 PM Its Sodoku by the way Karsus;)

-I just know that it's addictive as hell, and sounds like Count Dooku.
MerrikCale
07-14-07, 08:13 PM -I just know that it's addictive as hell, and sounds like Count Dooku.

my wife loves it. Sodoku, not Dooku
Red_Wizard
07-15-07, 09:32 AM Its Sodoku by the way Karsus;)

As I recall, she was for a time in Shadowdale trying to contact Mystra with the help of the other chosen.

I'm pretty sure actually that it is Sudoku ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
creyzi4zb12 07-10-07, 11:55 AM	Just wondering why she never appeared. Does anybody know why? She's one of the biggest wiz's in Faerun and she disappears in such an important event.
arveiaturace_nartheling 07-10-07, 01:40 PM	she was i quess just hiding from the farmers remember she had not way to use magic safely
Lord_Madrigan 07-10-07, 01:41 PM	She was most likely still in Aglarond trying to keep the people calm. With her own magic all out of wack she rightfull though it would be a good idea to stay close to home. I can just imagine that Thay was causing some problems if only form the fallout of chaos Thay was probably suffering
Faraer 07-10-07, 01:47 PM	What makes you think she disappeared? Some of her activities at that time are seen in the Shadow of the Avatar trilogy.
Lord Karsus 07-10-07, 03:01 PM	-Remember, just because a specific NPC or character is not mentioned doesn't mean that they "disappeared" or anything out of the ordinary happened.
MarkusTay63 07-10-07, 03:33 PM	With her magic and that of her constituents going 'haywire', I'm sure she had her hands full, and also had to be twice as 'on-gaurd' against Thayan attacks. The fact that Thayan magic was working just as badly would not have made a difference, they may have viewed it as the perfect time to attack Aglarond with thier conventional armies.
MerrikCale 07-10-07, 09:31 PM	she was making a booty call
Green Elven Vampire 07-11-07, 12:39 AM	If I remember correctly, in the novel Simbulcrap, she was playing quarters for dibbs on a broomstick with neon lights on the bottom for her sister Sylune!
The Simbul 07-11-07, 03:11 AM	The Simbul likely was primarily in Aglarond, with some scenes in Shadowdale. Like all of Mystra's Chosen she would have been safeguarding a portion of Mystra's divine power within her until Midnight's ascension as the new Mystra. The Shadow of the Avatar trilogy and memories in Elminster in Hell cover the Simbul during the time of troubles, and the latter of the two contains a specific scenario under which the Red Wizards attacked Aglarond and were routed because of the wild nature of magic.Elminster in Hell Chapter 3, The Day Magic Died In Aglarond, the Simbul forbade the use of magic against Thayan raiders, telling her men to trust instead in their swords. When the Red Wizards leading the strike against Aglarond tried to hurl lightning against the Simbul's men, their spells instead brought forth falls of flowers, crystal spheres, and mud. In the end, a Red Wizard sought escape by giving the raiders' stolen boat the power of flight, but his Art instead turned it to old and crumbling cheese, and it fell apart beneath them. They sank into the cold waters of the Sea of Dhurg. Only a handful emerged to the embrace of the Simbul's spell chains.Arguably any scenario which causes magic to become unreliable works to Aglarond's favor in a Thayan invasion scenario. Aglarond has numerous geographical defenses which inhibit Thayan incursions even when magic is fully functional, thus with the Weave's intermittently unreliable state during the Time of Troubles they are only more secured. While some of Aglarond's defensive forces have elite contingents of wizards and sorcerers (the Army of the Green Drake at Emmech, the Simbul's Guard in Velprintalar), they do not constitute a majority of the forces those individual armies, and therefore unreliability of magic is less harmful to the Aglarondan side. In addition, I imagine a great deal of Thay's conventional forces--primarily slaves, magically controlled undead, or abused monstrous humanoids--would be more apt to rout (or simply flee in the chaos before a battle) when they know their masters do not have a reliable means to locate or punish them. Meanwhile their magically adept or enhanced forces, such as the all-wizard Griffon Legion or magical siege units bearing Thayan bombards, would serve little more than battlefield decoration if one assumes that casting of spells is as unreliable as presented in the lore and stories.
Red_Wizard 07-11-07, 03:15 PM	Indeed. The one thing I was left wondering however, was whether it was During or after the ToT the secret of Thay's power ceased functioning. Most literature would suggest that it was During the failing of magic, but the audacity to attack in such a weakened state seems unreasonable even for Thayans. Which in turn leads me to believe it was as magic returned that it ceased to function.
MarkusTay63 07-11-07, 03:40 PM	Poppycock! Without any magic, Thay has TONS of regular troops, plenty enough to invade ANYONE. They quite possibly have the largest standing army in Faerūn, and the only thing that keeps them from using all those troops together is Thay's inability to work well with itself. If the Tharchions had managed to set aside their differences, they could have easily overun Aglarond with a 100,000 Gnolls or more. Screw terrain advantages, we are talking about humanoids here that are used to such conditions, and officers willing to lose thousands of 'men' in stupid uphill charges. The only thing that saved both Aglarond and Rashemen during the ToT, is that the Zulkirs were all hiding under their beds from each other. Magic not working right would have scared them more then a luncheon with the Simbul! Most of the high-magic types, including entire nations like Thay and Halrua, stayed at home and waited it out. Things were too unpredictable for anyone's plans (except maybe Entropy/Tiamet). The fact that the scene in EiH happened just indicates lone individuals, and stupid ones at that, were still going about "business as usual". Thats how Thay weeds out its weak - its called natural selection, and you don't see the Zulkirs themselves playing that game with the Simbul. she was making a booty callI was going to say "on top of El", but then I remembered he was 'incapacitated' at the time. ;)
Boda 07-11-07, 04:31 PM	Yep, got to agree with ya Markus.Numbers were on thay's side, but that little:''trust nobody attitude'' is likely to messed things up. Besides, all these high magic dudes were scared of what was going on.
Krash 07-11-07, 06:06 PM	Future scribings will give an insight into how "poor little Aglarond" has managed to withstand the "sheer might of Thay" through the years. -- George Krashos
ClobberinTime 07-11-07, 08:57 PM	You guys are thinking all wrongheaded about this, a mageocracy where 1% of the population holds all of the power through the use of their magic, and now the source of their dominion is gone? What happens? They gather their slaves and attack some other country? No armies of CE gnolls go freaking crazy burning and looting everything in sight. High level Fighters who are generals see their time to strike or at least peel part of the country away. What is Szass Tamm going to do come and touch attack me for level drain. The idea that Thay could attack anyone or anything at that time is ridiculous, ridiculous I say, supercalafragalisticexpialodocious...... ...........
MarkusTay63 07-12-07, 03:55 AM	Magic wasn't gone, just hard to perform correctly. I would say there was a base 5% per level of the caster of getting the spell right. You would need to roll under your level on a D20, in other words. Add in all the usual D20 modifiers - a one is a critical failure (spell backfire or worse), and 20 would be a critical hit (think 'city-sized' fireball). :D Anyhow, the high-ups had a decent chance of casting correctly most of the time, although they probably didn't want to risk it. Also, I think getting those 100,000 Gnolls the hell out of Thay and attacking someone else might have been priority one, before they relized what was going on and attacked their own masters.
creyzi4zb12 07-12-07, 07:14 AM	I've got an idea...What happened if the orcgate wars happened on ToT?
MarkusTay63 07-13-07, 01:57 AM	A LOT of dead gods, thats what.
creyzi4zb12 07-13-07, 09:13 AM	EDIT: DUE TO DOUBLE POST
creyzi4zb12 07-13-07, 09:14 AM	Errrr..... Am I missing something here?............ Oh yeah I remember!! SPOILERS ON WHITE. :cheer: Give me O!! Give me R!! Give me S!! Put it all together!! What does it say? ORCS!!: :cheer: :dancin: orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc!! :dancin: EDIT: OMG!! I just Double posted!!
ShadezofDis 07-13-07, 10:03 AM	Errrr..... Am I missing something here?............ :cheer: Give me O!! Give me R!! Give me S!! Put it all together!! What does it say? ORCS!! :cheer: Yep, no one gave you a C. Those orcs, I tell ya. :looloo:
ShadezofDis 07-13-07, 10:10 AM	I would assume that Thay would really be incapable of much of anything during the ToT. I think that the majority of the events revolved around the Zulkirs trying to figure out what was going on (in a very cautious manner) and the Tharchions working to make sure the country didn't blow up on them. Of course a slave revolt wouldn't be instant, the slaves wouldn't even know what's going on and I assume there was a lot of effort put into making sure they didn't have a clue what was going on. Thay really is like a boiling pot with the Red Wizards keeping the lid on, if they were to slip then Thay would burst like an overripe melon. That's my interpretation anyhow. :)
Lord Karsus 07-13-07, 11:03 PM	I've got an idea...What happened if the orcgate wars happened on ToT? -The Mulhorandi Wizards would have opened a portal to the Demiplane of Suduku, and would have completely lost track of time playing entertaining mind games.
Zsych 07-14-07, 01:11 AM	Wonder why no one has bothered setting up some sort of defence to situations like the ToT. One would think all magical kingdoms would've been terrified of a repeat. ... Simplest solution... portals from other worlds. Gives you something to work with at least(and potentially has strange effects on FR, if inter-world travel increases in some nations)
MarkusTay63 07-14-07, 03:37 AM	I wouldn't trust a portal from another world either. Just because it originated on another plane doesn't mean you won't come out in Faerūn inside-out, or something equally gross.
Zsych 07-14-07, 03:50 AM	You could put in a place/world known to have stable magic. ... or you could put lots of portals on multiple worlds, and then test them some, if you need to use them. Even if magic on Toril goes down, off-world magic should be okay, and not being Weave dependent, its laws shouldn't change.
XHereticX 07-14-07, 09:38 AM	-The Mulhorandi Wizards would have opened a portal to the Demiplane of Suduku, and would have completely lost track of time playing entertaining mind games. Its Sodoku by the way Karsus;) As I recall, she was for a time in Shadowdale trying to contact Mystra with the help of the other chosen.
Lord Karsus 07-14-07, 05:47 PM	Its Sodoku by the way Karsus;) -I just know that it's addictive as hell, and sounds like Count Dooku.
MerrikCale 07-14-07, 08:13 PM	-I just know that it's addictive as hell, and sounds like Count Dooku. my wife loves it. Sodoku, not Dooku
Red_Wizard 07-15-07, 09:32 AM	Its Sodoku by the way Karsus;) As I recall, she was for a time in Shadowdale trying to contact Mystra with the help of the other chosen. I'm pretty sure actually that it is Sudoku ;)