Why did Hallaster have to die? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Why did Hallaster have to die? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
OrderofUhlrik
11-28-07, 02:10 PM This post is sort of a two-question post, seeing as I don't know much about the mad archmage. All of my lore on him comes from 2e. So basically, what did Hallaster do in Undermountain in 3ed?

But, my main question is why did he have to die? Every campaign I had played in with him was always a thrill, humorous, and ultimately terribly fun. I see the reasoning, albeit I do not agree, as to why WotC killed other high lvl-npc's in the Realms. But, if iirc, Hallaster pretty much stuck to Undermountain and didn't cause any world-wide problems for the Realms. So, again, why did this fun character have to be snuffed out? Any ideas? Anybody who's read the sourcebook, can you shed any more light on the events that surrounded the archmage's demise? I'm just curious as to the necessity and reasoning of this. I always like the idea of Hallaster, and this is one of the truly dissapointing things to me about the "new Realms".
Green Elven Vampire
11-28-07, 02:20 PM He died because WoTc are going on a genocide of all the realms most powerful NPC's to make room for 4ED. He died because WoTc are witless, unthinking drones who are out to just make money. If you think that's bad... have you even heard who else they have already killed off and who they are going to kill off? Maybe you don't want to know!! It's sad and ludicrous!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-28-07, 02:27 PM I believe Rich Baker actually answered this question (or a similar question) on his Q&A thread in the General FR forum. Not sure what page though, sorry.
johnkretzer
11-28-07, 03:19 PM I think Hallaster had to die because they can't leave Undermountain the unbeatable dungeon. The PCs have to conquero Undermountain completely.

That is my theory.
Stigger
11-28-07, 03:33 PM Unfortunately, I think GEV has it about right.

Though I'm surprised by the lack of the DIE 4ED DIE!!! there... seems like a very appropriate response to this.
OrderofUhlrik
11-28-07, 05:35 PM He was always just such an interesting NPC to me. He was mad, but not evil, is how I always understood him. So why would the PC's necessarily need to destroy him? Could he not just be incapicated/bypassed/sealed in his floor, etc?

Anyways, I guess that sort of answers that question, but no one has really talked about the details of his death or what he's been doing for the past little while? My lore is so old it just says he's up to "Who knows what?" >.<
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-28-07, 05:57 PM Oh, I'm quite sure he was evil, although I agree that he didn't need to die.
Thinblade
11-28-07, 05:58 PM Your lack of information is partly because he hasn't shown up a whole lot in 3e. Before this product, you had to get 2e things to run Undermountain. What we do know is that he got seduced by Shar, tried to steal silver fire (novel Silverfall), then helped Mystra get Elminster out of Avernus (El in Hell), and was rewarded by the return of most of his sanity.

What Return to Undermountain revealed was that he had also forseen a major disaster (believed to be the Spellplague, but never explicitly stated). Of course, this is thrown completely out of whack because it's also implied (there, I think) that he realized this was bad because he had lived through it once before. This is flat-out stupid. Halaster's Imaskari, his catalysm involved a divinely-led invasion of his home. There isn't anything remotely like that in the GHotR section that ends with the Spellplague.

To be blunt, this is yet another example of WotC being unable to get even small bits of lore or continuity straight. As if we needed one.
Rauric
11-29-07, 09:22 AM If there is no reason for it when I read the 4E book then I am keeping him in it. Simple as that.

WOTC is reducing high lvl npcs though. I believe that in 2 or 3 years many of them plus the weave will return though.
Green Elven Vampire
11-29-07, 03:11 PM Ohh yeah, Die 4ED DIE!!! (thanks Stigger)
MarkusTay63
11-29-07, 03:49 PM If there is no reason for it when I read the 4E book then I am keeping him in it. Simple as that.Thats basically what I've always done - no one dies in MY Realms unless I say so. ;)

WOTC is reducing high lvl npcs though. I believe that in 2 or 3 years many of them plus the weave will return though.You know what's scarey? You're probably dead-on accurate.

They changed everything and told us that we 'needed' it, and then they will start piling all the things they claimed were 'wrong' with the setting back into iit.

And of course, they (the current team) will take credit for all the stuff they merely copy & pasted from earlier editions.

That's just sad... :nonono:
Stigger
11-29-07, 06:54 PM NP GEV. ;)
Lord Karsus
11-30-07, 12:14 AM -Technically, Halaster isn't dead, per se. It was said that his soul was shattered into multiple fragments. Thus, if someone is able to reunite those fragments, Halaster can be restored.

-At first, I was wholly against such a random and meaningless death. But, not that it's been said that Halaster forsaw the Spellplague and some kind of "Aboleth invasion", or something to that effect, and died trying to prevent it, it makes his death a bit more meaningful. Of course, high-powered Archmagi dying due to "accidents" sounds a little suspicious to me.
johnkretzer
11-30-07, 12:32 AM If there is no reason for it when I read the 4E book then I am keeping him in it. Simple as that.

WOTC is reducing high lvl npcs though. I believe that in 2 or 3 years many of them plus the weave will return though.

Just a small correction they said they are reducing the number of high-level good NPCs...not the evil ones.

So to answear the OP question Halaster had to die because he was heading on the path of redemption and would be a threat to the new gamer that WotC wants to bring in...the 'me' gamer
Lord Karsus
11-30-07, 12:37 AM What Return to Undermountain revealed was that he had also forseen a major disaster (believed to be the Spellplague, but never explicitly stated). Of course, this is thrown completely out of whack because it's also implied (there, I think) that he realized this was bad because he had lived through it once before. This is flat-out stupid. Halaster's Imaskari, his catalysm involved a divinely-led invasion of his home. There isn't anything remotely like that in the GHotR section that ends with the Spellplague.

To be blunt, this is yet another example of WotC being unable to get even small bits of lore or continuity straight. As if we needed one.

-The Imaskari population was devistated by a mysterious "plague" that dealt a great blow to Imaskar's political power, and prestige. It was this plague, along with slave revolts, that finally toppled her.
Green Elven Vampire
11-30-07, 01:48 AM Why not just turn his death into a high level adventure in where your PC's have to bring him back from the dead via True Resurrection spell?

Or does the module say he cannot be brought back with a True Resurrection spell?
Lord Karsus
11-30-07, 01:56 AM Why not just turn his death into a high level adventure in where your PC's have to bring him back from the dead via True Resurrection spell?

-Who says they're not? :P

Or does the module say he cannot be brought back with a True Resurrection spell?

-Well, it can't, as his soul has been sundered into thousands of pieces. Sounds like something similar that happened to everyone's favorite tripartite, momentary deity, doesn't it?
Stigger
11-30-07, 02:18 AM Nothing a little spirit-gum couldn't fix...
Lord Karsus
11-30-07, 02:28 AM Nothing a little spirit-gum couldn't fix...

-Heh. Spirit-gum. Oh, Stigger, you're a mighty clever one.
Stigger
11-30-07, 02:34 AM I do my best.
johnkretzer
11-30-07, 02:42 AM -Who says they're not? :P

-Well, it can't, as his soul has been sundered into thousands of pieces. Sounds like something similar that happened to everyone's favorite tripartite, momentary deity, doesn't it?

Sounds like a setup for a new vestige...

Mmmmm....maybe I'll post as KarsusHallaster as those spirit fragments got all mixed together....
Lord Karsus
11-30-07, 02:56 AM Mmmmm....maybe I'll post as KarsusHallaster as those spirit fragments got all mixed together....

-Two mad-mages wrapped in one!? Why, that's...insanity!
johnkretzer
11-30-07, 02:58 AM -Two mad-mages wrapped in one!? Why, that's...insanity!

Why yes it would be wouldn't it...:evillaugh
Stigger
11-30-07, 03:06 AM The Karsulaster perhaps?
Lord Karsus
11-30-07, 03:14 AM -Halitosus, perhaps?
Green Elven Vampire
11-30-07, 03:23 AM Doesn't True Resurrection work even with no body? His fragmented soul, unless captured within an item of power, should be in the divine realm of Mystra, shouldn't it?
johnkretzer
11-30-07, 03:25 AM Doesn't True Resurrection work even with no body? His fragmented soul, unless captured within an item of power, should be in the divine realm of Mystra, shouldn't it?

The True Resurction would need a whole soul to work.

And about the divine realm of Mystra....got bad news there...
Lord Karsus
11-30-07, 03:28 AM And about the divine realm of Mystra....got bad news there...

-Yyyeeaaahh...
MarkusTay63
11-30-07, 04:04 AM Why did Hallaster have to die?

To make room for all the Vegepygmies.
Lord Karsus
11-30-07, 04:07 AM Why did Hallaster have to die?

-Because you touch yourself at night.
Green Elven Vampire
11-30-07, 04:10 AM Yes, I know about Mystra in wretched 4ED, but that's not going to happen for at least 10 more years DR, so I'd assume his soul (shattered or not) would be in her Realm. If in fact he is in her realm, then I'd assume his soul is whole again.

Just a thought.
MarkusTay63
11-30-07, 04:12 AM Don't shattered souls go to the Plane of Mirrors? :rolleyes:

I know that was a little weird, but it makes sense in a pretzle-logic sort iof way.
Stigger
11-30-07, 04:19 AM Kinda reminds me of The Brothers Grimm there MT...
Lord Karsus
11-30-07, 04:21 AM -Shattered souls don't go anywhere...I would know...:embarrass
MarkusTay63
11-30-07, 04:22 AM But youre not really shattered, just broken.

A little glue and some scotchtape and you'll be as good as new.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-30-07, 09:59 AM Kinda reminds me of The Brothers Grimm there MT...

I hated that movie. They killed a kitten for comedic purposes.:mad:

PS: And no, that's not the only reason I didn't like it.
selunatic2397
11-30-07, 10:11 AM Halaster had to die because a 12 year old WOW player in the midwest realized his 12th level wizard was lower level than halaster.

He EMailed WOTC and they promptly acted to ensure the only high level NPC's are zero level turnip farmers.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
18DELTA
11-30-07, 10:13 AM Everybody PLEASE think of the kitties!:D

I think that they Put the pictures of major Realms personalities on a wall and started throwing darts at them. The first one hit was Halasteer!;) :P :D
18DELTA
11-30-07, 10:14 AM Why heck tour idea is better than mine!:D :bow: :bow: :bow:
Stigger
11-30-07, 02:37 PM I hated that movie. They killed a kitten for comedic purposes.:mad:

PS: And no, that's not the only reason I didn't like it.
But it did give us the immortal line of "it's not magic, it's just shiny"
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-30-07, 02:48 PM But it did give us the immortal line of "it's not magic, it's just shiny"

That's not as immortal as Fergie's "The Grey Goose got your girl feelin' loose".:P
Asgetrion
11-30-07, 03:37 PM -Two mad-mages wrapped in one!? Why, that's...insanity!

*Shhhh*, or WoTC might steal this idea and we might actually see Karsuster/Halassus/Halakarsus/Karster (take your pick) in the 4E Realms! :P
Asgetrion
11-30-07, 05:21 PM I hated that movie. They killed a kitten for comedic purposes.:mad:

PS: And no, that's not the only reason I didn't like it.

I agree -- it was a bad movie, and I, too, have to admit that one of the reasons I didn't like it was because I *love* cats (my own cat died last spring, but fortunately both of my sisters have cats that I can take care of... it will take some time before I can take another kitten myself).
Stigger
11-30-07, 05:40 PM Nothing with Monica Bellucci in it can be a bad movie, just on principle. :D

And I thought the cat thing was funny myself... but I can't stand cats, so that could have something to do with it. :P
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-30-07, 06:24 PM Needless to say, much like Asgetrion I am a cat lover (and also a cat owner).:)

But I love animals in general and I don't like it when they get "harmed" in movies (or books, for that matter).
GothicDan
11-30-07, 10:41 PM I liked the Brothers Grimm, and not just because of cute guys.

But I also hate animals being hurt in movies.
Asgetrion
12-01-07, 05:02 PM Nothing with Monica Bellucci in it can be a bad movie, just on principle. :D

And I thought the cat thing was funny myself... but I can't stand cats, so that could have something to do with it. :P

And now I have to kill you... ;) :P (just kidding)
Stigger
12-01-07, 05:20 PM Not to worry, I get death threats daily just for being as wonderful and amazing as I am... ;) :P :D
Risingdragon145
12-01-07, 08:28 PM Hi all i'm new to the FR forum so I got a few Q for you. Like where can I find information about the changing in the cosmology? For the most part I know some of what was presented in the 3e campaign setting. Thanks for the help!
Stigger
12-01-07, 08:31 PM Not really sure what you're asking for there actually. If you're looking for some info on the old 'Great Wheel' cosmology, you might try looking on Google for Planescape stuff. If you're looking for information on the coming 4e cosmology, sifting though the Developer Blogs over on the 4e section of the forums, and the Ask the Developer thread over in the FR General section of this forum.
Risingdragon145
12-01-07, 09:02 PM Ok I'll check on the 4e forum. But just to clarify I read some of you mentioning that Mystra and Helm were killed and that some other goods were changed around. That was what i meant by the changing of the cosmology.
Stigger
12-01-07, 10:31 PM Ah, that's a reference to the last two pages of The Grand History of the Realms, not the online pdf, but the one WotC published a short while back, for the most part. The rest of what little we know is on the threads I mentioned.
Green Elven Vampire
12-02-07, 07:09 AM I thought that movie was pretty darn good. I love cats as well, but couldn't care less if one gets killed in a movie. Hell, as a professional Chef at a 4 star resort I kill animals for a living, then cook them and eat them. As a matter of fact we slaughtered a boar last week for a wedding reception. Mmmm, mmmm, mmm did that swine taste heavenly!
Suin Bahhar
12-02-07, 10:09 AM :rofl:

I liked the Brothers Grimm too. Always like scam movies, and a mischievous note has it's place in those too. Need to watch Pan's Labyrinth next...I heard it's more like mythological horror...
The_Shaman
12-02-07, 10:55 AM Now if they kill some of the really powerful mages out there, we may have a problem. Is anyone living near Wizards' HQ? We may have to resort to picketing their office if they touch Larloch or Ioulaum, but it'd be good if there's a local so we don't get lost accidentally*.

*: getting lost on purpose, say in the direction of a decent pub, is another thing entirely. A wonderful thing, getting lost on purpose, especially if you do it with friends ;)
Puritan13
12-02-07, 06:01 PM I'm thinking that Halasters death triggered his stasis clone, which was made back when Hal was insane and wasn't updated after he became less insane.

Thus the status quo is maintained.
Faraer
12-02-07, 06:04 PM Remember, Eric Boyd has said there's more to this story than we've heard. Which of course doesn't make it a good decision for the published Realms or for your campaign.
Lord Karsus
12-02-07, 06:47 PM Remember, Eric Boyd has said there's more to this story than we've heard. Which of course doesn't make it a good decision for the published Realms or for your campaign.

-It doesn't necessarily make it a bad decision, either. Like I said before, it's an interesting angle- but it does have a few flaws to it, as of right now.
Faraer
12-02-07, 07:10 PM -It doesn't necessarily make it a bad decision, either.Indeed not.
Fire_Wraith
12-04-07, 02:30 PM My only real objection to it was where/how it took place - specifically, that it occured in the prologue text of an adventure. I really can't think of any more anticlimactic death for a character, hero or villain, than to just be introduced as having been killed off "between films/books." This isn't an instance of us being told at the beginning of the Empire Strikes Back that Darth Vader really died at the end of the last movie, even though we didn't outright see it - it's more like us being told at the beginning of Return of the Jedi, in the floating text, that "Darth Vader is dead, and..."

I'd have at least liked a climactic introductory scene involving the players, even if they can't save Halaster (or aren't supposed to be able to save him).
Lord Karsus
12-04-07, 02:37 PM I'd have at least liked a climactic introductory scene involving the players, even if they can't save Halaster (or aren't supposed to be able to save him).

-One thing with that, though, is that if a crafty player does think up some way to save Halaster, either everything is thrown off if you allow it, or it's a deus ex machina that people get angry about.

-It is very anticlimactic, though, I agree, I would have liked to see a novel about it, at least. That story would have been the perfect capstone for the Wizards series.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
OrderofUhlrik 11-28-07, 02:10 PM	This post is sort of a two-question post, seeing as I don't know much about the mad archmage. All of my lore on him comes from 2e. So basically, what did Hallaster do in Undermountain in 3ed? But, my main question is why did he have to die? Every campaign I had played in with him was always a thrill, humorous, and ultimately terribly fun. I see the reasoning, albeit I do not agree, as to why WotC killed other high lvl-npc's in the Realms. But, if iirc, Hallaster pretty much stuck to Undermountain and didn't cause any world-wide problems for the Realms. So, again, why did this fun character have to be snuffed out? Any ideas? Anybody who's read the sourcebook, can you shed any more light on the events that surrounded the archmage's demise? I'm just curious as to the necessity and reasoning of this. I always like the idea of Hallaster, and this is one of the truly dissapointing things to me about the "new Realms".
Green Elven Vampire 11-28-07, 02:20 PM	He died because WoTc are going on a genocide of all the realms most powerful NPC's to make room for 4ED. He died because WoTc are witless, unthinking drones who are out to just make money. If you think that's bad... have you even heard who else they have already killed off and who they are going to kill off? Maybe you don't want to know!! It's sad and ludicrous!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-28-07, 02:27 PM	I believe Rich Baker actually answered this question (or a similar question) on his Q&A thread in the General FR forum. Not sure what page though, sorry.
johnkretzer 11-28-07, 03:19 PM	I think Hallaster had to die because they can't leave Undermountain the unbeatable dungeon. The PCs have to conquero Undermountain completely. That is my theory.
Stigger 11-28-07, 03:33 PM	Unfortunately, I think GEV has it about right. Though I'm surprised by the lack of the DIE 4ED DIE!!! there... seems like a very appropriate response to this.
OrderofUhlrik 11-28-07, 05:35 PM	He was always just such an interesting NPC to me. He was mad, but not evil, is how I always understood him. So why would the PC's necessarily need to destroy him? Could he not just be incapicated/bypassed/sealed in his floor, etc? Anyways, I guess that sort of answers that question, but no one has really talked about the details of his death or what he's been doing for the past little while? My lore is so old it just says he's up to "Who knows what?" >.<
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-28-07, 05:57 PM	Oh, I'm quite sure he was evil, although I agree that he didn't need to die.
Thinblade 11-28-07, 05:58 PM	Your lack of information is partly because he hasn't shown up a whole lot in 3e. Before this product, you had to get 2e things to run Undermountain. What we do know is that he got seduced by Shar, tried to steal silver fire (novel Silverfall), then helped Mystra get Elminster out of Avernus (El in Hell), and was rewarded by the return of most of his sanity. What Return to Undermountain revealed was that he had also forseen a major disaster (believed to be the Spellplague, but never explicitly stated). Of course, this is thrown completely out of whack because it's also implied (there, I think) that he realized this was bad because he had lived through it once before. This is flat-out stupid. Halaster's Imaskari, his catalysm involved a divinely-led invasion of his home. There isn't anything remotely like that in the GHotR section that ends with the Spellplague. To be blunt, this is yet another example of WotC being unable to get even small bits of lore or continuity straight. As if we needed one.
Rauric 11-29-07, 09:22 AM	If there is no reason for it when I read the 4E book then I am keeping him in it. Simple as that. WOTC is reducing high lvl npcs though. I believe that in 2 or 3 years many of them plus the weave will return though.
Green Elven Vampire 11-29-07, 03:11 PM	Ohh yeah, Die 4ED DIE!!! (thanks Stigger)
MarkusTay63 11-29-07, 03:49 PM	If there is no reason for it when I read the 4E book then I am keeping him in it. Simple as that.Thats basically what I've always done - no one dies in MY Realms unless I say so. ;) WOTC is reducing high lvl npcs though. I believe that in 2 or 3 years many of them plus the weave will return though.You know what's scarey? You're probably dead-on accurate. They changed everything and told us that we 'needed' it, and then they will start piling all the things they claimed were 'wrong' with the setting back into iit. And of course, they (the current team) will take credit for all the stuff they merely copy & pasted from earlier editions. That's just sad... :nonono:
Stigger 11-29-07, 06:54 PM	NP GEV. ;)
Lord Karsus 11-30-07, 12:14 AM	-Technically, Halaster isn't dead, per se. It was said that his soul was shattered into multiple fragments. Thus, if someone is able to reunite those fragments, Halaster can be restored. -At first, I was wholly against such a random and meaningless death. But, not that it's been said that Halaster forsaw the Spellplague and some kind of "Aboleth invasion", or something to that effect, and died trying to prevent it, it makes his death a bit more meaningful. Of course, high-powered Archmagi dying due to "accidents" sounds a little suspicious to me.
johnkretzer 11-30-07, 12:32 AM	If there is no reason for it when I read the 4E book then I am keeping him in it. Simple as that. WOTC is reducing high lvl npcs though. I believe that in 2 or 3 years many of them plus the weave will return though. Just a small correction they said they are reducing the number of high-level good NPCs...not the evil ones. So to answear the OP question Halaster had to die because he was heading on the path of redemption and would be a threat to the new gamer that WotC wants to bring in...the 'me' gamer
Lord Karsus 11-30-07, 12:37 AM	What Return to Undermountain revealed was that he had also forseen a major disaster (believed to be the Spellplague, but never explicitly stated). Of course, this is thrown completely out of whack because it's also implied (there, I think) that he realized this was bad because he had lived through it once before. This is flat-out stupid. Halaster's Imaskari, his catalysm involved a divinely-led invasion of his home. There isn't anything remotely like that in the GHotR section that ends with the Spellplague. To be blunt, this is yet another example of WotC being unable to get even small bits of lore or continuity straight. As if we needed one. -The Imaskari population was devistated by a mysterious "plague" that dealt a great blow to Imaskar's political power, and prestige. It was this plague, along with slave revolts, that finally toppled her.
Green Elven Vampire 11-30-07, 01:48 AM	Why not just turn his death into a high level adventure in where your PC's have to bring him back from the dead via True Resurrection spell? Or does the module say he cannot be brought back with a True Resurrection spell?
Lord Karsus 11-30-07, 01:56 AM	Why not just turn his death into a high level adventure in where your PC's have to bring him back from the dead via True Resurrection spell? -Who says they're not? :P Or does the module say he cannot be brought back with a True Resurrection spell? -Well, it can't, as his soul has been sundered into thousands of pieces. Sounds like something similar that happened to everyone's favorite tripartite, momentary deity, doesn't it?
Stigger 11-30-07, 02:18 AM	Nothing a little spirit-gum couldn't fix...
Lord Karsus 11-30-07, 02:28 AM	Nothing a little spirit-gum couldn't fix... -Heh. Spirit-gum. Oh, Stigger, you're a mighty clever one.
Stigger 11-30-07, 02:34 AM	I do my best.
johnkretzer 11-30-07, 02:42 AM	-Who says they're not? :P -Well, it can't, as his soul has been sundered into thousands of pieces. Sounds like something similar that happened to everyone's favorite tripartite, momentary deity, doesn't it? Sounds like a setup for a new vestige... Mmmmm....maybe I'll post as KarsusHallaster as those spirit fragments got all mixed together....
Lord Karsus 11-30-07, 02:56 AM	Mmmmm....maybe I'll post as KarsusHallaster as those spirit fragments got all mixed together.... -Two mad-mages wrapped in one!? Why, that's...insanity!
johnkretzer 11-30-07, 02:58 AM	-Two mad-mages wrapped in one!? Why, that's...insanity! Why yes it would be wouldn't it...:evillaugh
Stigger 11-30-07, 03:06 AM	The Karsulaster perhaps?
Lord Karsus 11-30-07, 03:14 AM	-Halitosus, perhaps?
Green Elven Vampire 11-30-07, 03:23 AM	Doesn't True Resurrection work even with no body? His fragmented soul, unless captured within an item of power, should be in the divine realm of Mystra, shouldn't it?
johnkretzer 11-30-07, 03:25 AM	Doesn't True Resurrection work even with no body? His fragmented soul, unless captured within an item of power, should be in the divine realm of Mystra, shouldn't it? The True Resurction would need a whole soul to work. And about the divine realm of Mystra....got bad news there...
Lord Karsus 11-30-07, 03:28 AM	And about the divine realm of Mystra....got bad news there... -Yyyeeaaahh...
MarkusTay63 11-30-07, 04:04 AM	Why did Hallaster have to die? To make room for all the Vegepygmies.
Lord Karsus 11-30-07, 04:07 AM	Why did Hallaster have to die? -Because you touch yourself at night.
Green Elven Vampire 11-30-07, 04:10 AM	Yes, I know about Mystra in wretched 4ED, but that's not going to happen for at least 10 more years DR, so I'd assume his soul (shattered or not) would be in her Realm. If in fact he is in her realm, then I'd assume his soul is whole again. Just a thought.
MarkusTay63 11-30-07, 04:12 AM	Don't shattered souls go to the Plane of Mirrors? :rolleyes: I know that was a little weird, but it makes sense in a pretzle-logic sort iof way.
Stigger 11-30-07, 04:19 AM	Kinda reminds me of The Brothers Grimm there MT...
Lord Karsus 11-30-07, 04:21 AM	-Shattered souls don't go anywhere...I would know...:embarrass
MarkusTay63 11-30-07, 04:22 AM	But youre not really shattered, just broken. A little glue and some scotchtape and you'll be as good as new.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-30-07, 09:59 AM	Kinda reminds me of The Brothers Grimm there MT... I hated that movie. They killed a kitten for comedic purposes.:mad: PS: And no, that's not the only reason I didn't like it.
selunatic2397 11-30-07, 10:11 AM	Halaster had to die because a 12 year old WOW player in the midwest realized his 12th level wizard was lower level than halaster. He EMailed WOTC and they promptly acted to ensure the only high level NPC's are zero level turnip farmers. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
18DELTA 11-30-07, 10:13 AM	Everybody PLEASE think of the kitties!:D I think that they Put the pictures of major Realms personalities on a wall and started throwing darts at them. The first one hit was Halasteer!;) :P :D
18DELTA 11-30-07, 10:14 AM	Why heck tour idea is better than mine!:D :bow: :bow: :bow:
Stigger 11-30-07, 02:37 PM	I hated that movie. They killed a kitten for comedic purposes.:mad: PS: And no, that's not the only reason I didn't like it. But it did give us the immortal line of "it's not magic, it's just shiny"
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-30-07, 02:48 PM	But it did give us the immortal line of "it's not magic, it's just shiny" That's not as immortal as Fergie's "The Grey Goose got your girl feelin' loose".:P
Asgetrion 11-30-07, 03:37 PM	-Two mad-mages wrapped in one!? Why, that's...insanity! Shhhh, or WoTC might steal this idea and we might actually see Karsuster/Halassus/Halakarsus/Karster (take your pick) in the 4E Realms! :P
Asgetrion 11-30-07, 05:21 PM	I hated that movie. They killed a kitten for comedic purposes.:mad: PS: And no, that's not the only reason I didn't like it. I agree -- it was a bad movie, and I, too, have to admit that one of the reasons I didn't like it was because I love cats (my own cat died last spring, but fortunately both of my sisters have cats that I can take care of... it will take some time before I can take another kitten myself).
Stigger 11-30-07, 05:40 PM	Nothing with Monica Bellucci in it can be a bad movie, just on principle. :D And I thought the cat thing was funny myself... but I can't stand cats, so that could have something to do with it. :P
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-30-07, 06:24 PM	Needless to say, much like Asgetrion I am a cat lover (and also a cat owner).:) But I love animals in general and I don't like it when they get "harmed" in movies (or books, for that matter).
GothicDan 11-30-07, 10:41 PM	I liked the Brothers Grimm, and not just because of cute guys. But I also hate animals being hurt in movies.
Asgetrion 12-01-07, 05:02 PM	Nothing with Monica Bellucci in it can be a bad movie, just on principle. :D And I thought the cat thing was funny myself... but I can't stand cats, so that could have something to do with it. :P And now I have to kill you... ;) :P (just kidding)
Stigger 12-01-07, 05:20 PM	Not to worry, I get death threats daily just for being as wonderful and amazing as I am... ;) :P :D
Risingdragon145 12-01-07, 08:28 PM	Hi all i'm new to the FR forum so I got a few Q for you. Like where can I find information about the changing in the cosmology? For the most part I know some of what was presented in the 3e campaign setting. Thanks for the help!
Stigger 12-01-07, 08:31 PM	Not really sure what you're asking for there actually. If you're looking for some info on the old 'Great Wheel' cosmology, you might try looking on Google for Planescape stuff. If you're looking for information on the coming 4e cosmology, sifting though the Developer Blogs over on the 4e section of the forums, and the Ask the Developer thread over in the FR General section of this forum.
Risingdragon145 12-01-07, 09:02 PM	Ok I'll check on the 4e forum. But just to clarify I read some of you mentioning that Mystra and Helm were killed and that some other goods were changed around. That was what i meant by the changing of the cosmology.
Stigger 12-01-07, 10:31 PM	Ah, that's a reference to the last two pages of The Grand History of the Realms, not the online pdf, but the one WotC published a short while back, for the most part. The rest of what little we know is on the threads I mentioned.
Green Elven Vampire 12-02-07, 07:09 AM	I thought that movie was pretty darn good. I love cats as well, but couldn't care less if one gets killed in a movie. Hell, as a professional Chef at a 4 star resort I kill animals for a living, then cook them and eat them. As a matter of fact we slaughtered a boar last week for a wedding reception. Mmmm, mmmm, mmm did that swine taste heavenly!
Suin Bahhar 12-02-07, 10:09 AM	:rofl: I liked the Brothers Grimm too. Always like scam movies, and a mischievous note has it's place in those too. Need to watch Pan's Labyrinth next...I heard it's more like mythological horror...
The_Shaman 12-02-07, 10:55 AM	Now if they kill some of the really powerful mages out there, we may have a problem. Is anyone living near Wizards' HQ? We may have to resort to picketing their office if they touch Larloch or Ioulaum, but it'd be good if there's a local so we don't get lost accidentally. : getting lost on purpose, say in the direction of a decent pub, is another thing entirely. A wonderful thing, getting lost on purpose, especially if you do it with friends ;)
Puritan13 12-02-07, 06:01 PM	I'm thinking that Halasters death triggered his stasis clone, which was made back when Hal was insane and wasn't updated after he became less insane. Thus the status quo is maintained.
Faraer 12-02-07, 06:04 PM	Remember, Eric Boyd has said there's more to this story than we've heard. Which of course doesn't make it a good decision for the published Realms or for your campaign.
Lord Karsus 12-02-07, 06:47 PM	Remember, Eric Boyd has said there's more to this story than we've heard. Which of course doesn't make it a good decision for the published Realms or for your campaign. -It doesn't necessarily make it a bad decision, either. Like I said before, it's an interesting angle- but it does have a few flaws to it, as of right now.
Faraer 12-02-07, 07:10 PM	-It doesn't necessarily make it a bad decision, either.Indeed not.
Fire_Wraith 12-04-07, 02:30 PM	My only real objection to it was where/how it took place - specifically, that it occured in the prologue text of an adventure. I really can't think of any more anticlimactic death for a character, hero or villain, than to just be introduced as having been killed off "between films/books." This isn't an instance of us being told at the beginning of the Empire Strikes Back that Darth Vader really died at the end of the last movie, even though we didn't outright see it - it's more like us being told at the beginning of Return of the Jedi, in the floating text, that "Darth Vader is dead, and..." I'd have at least liked a climactic introductory scene involving the players, even if they can't save Halaster (or aren't supposed to be able to save him).
Lord Karsus 12-04-07, 02:37 PM	I'd have at least liked a climactic introductory scene involving the players, even if they can't save Halaster (or aren't supposed to be able to save him). -One thing with that, though, is that if a crafty player does think up some way to save Halaster, either everything is thrown off if you allow it, or it's a deus ex machina that people get angry about. -It is very anticlimactic, though, I agree, I would have liked to see a novel about it, at least. That story would have been the perfect capstone for the Wizards series.