Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Philalexandros 04-09-07, 10:40 AM	A write-up for Zaknafein Do'Urden as a pure Fighter, using 3.5 rules... for those who wish to use him as such. :) Zaknafein Do'Urden, Weaponmaster of House Do'Urden Male Drow Elf Fighter 24 CN Medium Humanoid (elf) Init +13; Senses include darkvision; Listen +6, Spot +9 Spell Resistance 35 ------------------------------------------------------------ AC 28, touch 16, flat-footed 22 (+6 Dex, +8 armor, +4 natural armor) Hp 218 (20d10+60; 4d8+8) Fort +17, Ref +17, Will +11; (+2 against spells and spell-like abilities) ------------------------------------------------------------ Speed 30 ft. (6 squares) Melee +5 keen longsword +35/+30/+25/+20 (1d8+17/17-20/x2) Melee +5 keen longsword +35/+30/+25/+20 (1d8+15/17-20/x2) Base Atk +22 Special Atk: Rending, 1d8+11 (contingent on both weapons striking in same round) ------------------------------------------------------------ Abilities Str 18, Dex 22 (28), Con 16, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 14 SQ Drow traits: Darkvision, Light Blindness, Spell Resistance, Will save bonuses. Feats: Blind Fighting, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Epic Weapon Focus (longsword), Epic Weapon Specialization (longsword), Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical (longsword), Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Mobility, Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Rend, Weapon Focus (longsword), and Weapon Specialization (longsword). Skills: Balance +15 (6 ranks), Bluff +13 (11 ranks), Climb +12 (8 ranks), Heal +6 (3 ranks), Hide +13 (+18 with his Cloak; 4 ranks), Intimidate +9 (7 ranks), Jump +14 (10 ranks), Knowledge-Menzoberranzan +7 (4 ranks), Knowledge-Military Tactics +12 (9 ranks), Listen +6 (3 ranks), Move Silently +13 (+18 with his Cloak; 4 ranks), Spellcraft +8 (5 ranks), Spot +9 (6 ranks), and Swim +6 (2 ranks). Possessions: two +5 Keen longswords, a ring of a Master of Melee Magthere (+4 Natural Armor bonus, +6 DEX; user is constantly under the effect of a Longstrider spell), Blueshine Drow Chainmail of Nimbleness +3, Drow Cloak and Boots (of Elvenkind), and 10 Light Pellets. Zaknafein also has an assortment of mundane equipment to assist him in his missions. He keeps a masterwork dagger balanced for both throwing and close combat concealed in each of his boots, a third such blade in a sheath along the small of his back, a masterwork punching dagger secured on the inside of his weapon-belt, and a masterwork whip. Within one of his belt-pouches he keeps a good number of caltrops for discouraging pursuit. His waist-sash is made of thin silk that equals climbing rope in strength and ends in unfolding hooks of enchanted strength. Notes: I largely used the references given in the Menzoberranzan boxed set and Homeland; I also allowed a healthy amount of influence from the War of the Spider Queen NPC write-ups into my work. I added +1 to Zak's INT, as 2E Drow of the Underdark only indicated a +1 racial bonus to that attribute, as opposed to the current +2. Beyond that, his 7 attribute increases were applied thus--STR +3 (he is described as strong, stronger than most females--enough to make Briza, who was rather large, fear him), DEX +3, and WIS +1. Zaknafein was written up as having two +5 longswords and a suit of +5 chainmail. Aside from that, he is stated as having little other magic other than light pellets--and not needing it. The weapons and armor listed are powerful, but are unfortunately a throwback to a time when Drow equipment tended to have high bonuses but little detail or uniqueness. Since the "War of the Spider Queen" series came out, we've seen Drow characters with much more varied inventories. I decided to use this as a license to round out Zaknafein's own repertoire... hopefully without compromising his described capabilities. ------------------------------------------------------------ Description: Zaknafein is a handsome enough, if dour-looking Drow elf. He carries himself with the ease and grace of a master warrior; his every move seems calculated for efficiency and balance. The Weaponmaster of House Do'Urden is very much minimalist in appearance, wearing fine armor and bearing arms of obvious quality, but eschewing any extraneous adornment. Zaknafein doesn't talk as much as he observes, and makes no effort to disguise his gaze with friendliness or civility. When he does choose to speak, he is openly sardonic and even condescending to most of his fellow Drow. He reserves grudging respect only for the Matron Mothers of Menzoberannyr society, who he feels ultimately control his destiny. Zaknafein's hatred for his fellow Drow is fierce, and is the source of his life's anger. He loathes the society he is forced to live in, but at the same time feels trapped and unable to escape. His only recourse is to do what he does best--slay as many of his evil kin as he can under the constraints of Lolth's wicked society. His choicest target is also the most dangerous in this deadly city: High Priestesses of the Spider Queen. Though his tastes are blasphemous, they do lend themselves to the upwardly mobile ambitions of House Do'Urden. As such, his skill and worth allows him to survive when so many others do not. As Weaponmaster of House Do'Urden, Zaknafein tackles his work with conflicting emotions. He trains his men to be the best warriors of Menzoberranzan, but he nonetheless hates them for the deeds he will commit. The Do'Urden soldiery may be a crack, elite unit, but none of them--in Zak's eyes, at least--are true warriors. Thus, when the time comes for battle, Zaknafein worries less about the survival of his men and more about decisive victory. So long as this is achieved, he can always train more murderers for Malice. It is in single combat that Zaknafein feels most free and it is within this forum that he reveals his true genius. A brilliant, calculating warrior, he is always several moves ahead of his opponents within seconds of the fight's start. He is capable of overwhelming the opposition with lightning-quick flurries of attacks, but he also utilizes cunning tripping attacks, disarming maneuvers and feints to put foes in the worst position possible. While honorable--so far as Drow go, at least--Zaknafein has no qualms about using whatever means are at hand to win. A swordmaster-savant whose craft can best be described as a brutal art, he would nonetheless never think twice about throwing sand in a foe's eye or stunning him with a low blow. ------------------------------------------------------------ Sources PHB 3.5, DMG 3.5, FRCS, Magic of Faerun, Races of Faerun, Epic Level Handbook. ADDITIONS: I (think I) straightened out some blatant miscalculations in Zak's attack bonuses. I also replaced a couple of feats... 3.5 has Greater Weapon Focus and Specialization as pre-requisites for EWF and EWS, and as such I had to get rid of Improved Feint and Improved Trip.
redmagefish 04-10-07, 07:19 AM	but was he even a drow the books hint he is a drow moon elf
Philalexandros 04-10-07, 08:26 AM	but was he even a drow the books hint he is a drow moon elf Huh? :confused: We are talking about the same character from Menzoberranzan,[/] right? From the [i]Dark Elf trilogy? The guy who's a member of a Drow house and father to a Drow himself?
Sortfiere 04-10-07, 10:41 AM	After doing a cursory breeze over of your write up, I'd say it's rather sexy. Allow me to, however, make a motion to somehow squeeze the two-weapon defense and combat reflexes feats in there somewhere, and possibly make an allowance for that nasty whip of his. I'm not too sure about that vorpal longsword though; I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that his swords were not of drow make, but either way, going vorpal is a bit over the top imho--keen or improved crit will do the job nicely. Otherwise...:clap:
Ayden 04-10-07, 10:47 AM	Your write-up looks really good for a straight fighter build. But it has been awhile since I've read the books, so I could be wrong, but I thought that Zaknafein knew how to use a whip. If I'm wrong, my bad, but if I'm not, your going to need exotic weapon proficency [whip]. But, either way, it is still a nice build.
Mad Mage 04-10-07, 12:41 PM	Yeah, Zaknafein used a whip in Homeland, both in the original novel and the Devil's Due graphic novel.
Duagloth 04-10-07, 05:37 PM	Fighter lvl 24. He could use a Stick as a very accurate Weapon. He, for sure, can use a whip without any problem. He should be able to use anyweapon (exotic or not) without a problem. -4 on attack is not really a problem with BAB 24 *g*
The_Shaman 04-10-07, 06:38 PM	Well, he's making some pretty insane called shots, so I'd say he might just have proficiency with it. Aside from that, I think he's more than capable of using the occasional low blow when the situation warrants it, but maybe it's just my interpretation on it.
Philalexandros 04-10-07, 07:01 PM	All, I appreciate the replies. Combat Reflexes should have been a gimme, and I will remove Great Cleave to fit that one in. Great Cleave was predominately meant as a stepping stone to the Devastating Critical Tree, but, having realized that Zak would not be strong enough for either O.C. or D.C. (and would not have had enough Epic Feats by lvl 24 for it anyways), I should have changed it. It's too bad, too, because--STR requirements aside--I really like the idea of Zak landing deadly criticals. Regarding his use of the whip: I, too, fall under the school of thought where Zaknafein is a great enough warrior to use a weapon such as a whip without being so invested into it. Beyond that, the fact that it makes no reappearance (IIRC?) in Homeland indicates to me it wasn't so favored a weapon as to sacrifice high-end feats that serve to reflect his matchless swordsmanship. I'm very torn about his sword. The language in "Homeland" implies something rather special, and were we dealing with 2E I would be much more inclined to use the "Sharpness" quality for it. I know that Keen is the byword for this nowadays, but I can't see Zak's one specifically praised sword being simply redundant to his Improved Critical feat. Anyone have any thoughts on what "killing magics" could entail?
Treymordin 04-10-07, 11:29 PM	IIRC, he only sed the whip against drow clerics.
Lord Karsus 04-11-07, 12:27 AM	-Mind if I borrow this, and include the write-up in Elves of Faerūn? You'd get credit, of course. I needed to include the token Drow, and I was actually going to start statting up either Zak or Jarlaxle, but here, you beat me to Zak.
Critalondel 04-11-07, 01:16 AM	Nice write up! You might want to use the "Drow Crafted" enhancement from the Underdark book on some/all of his gear. It's a +1 cost, that gives a +2 luck on attack/damage rolls (with weapons) or +2 luck to armor class (for armor) -- while underground. Sunlight makes it smoke and melt away, yadda yadda. It's how third edition deals with the old "magical melting drow stuff" gear, but I think for someone like Zak it works pretty well. A sword with a +7 hit/damage bonus is impressive, but still not necessarily as flashy and obvious as flaming or something similar.
Sortfiere 04-11-07, 09:04 AM	Hah! I keep coming back and looking over this thread, very tasty :) Once again, excellent write up, Phil :D
Philalexandros 04-11-07, 09:21 AM	-Mind if I borrow this, and include the write-up in Elves of Faerūn? You'd get credit, of course. I needed to include the token Drow, and I was actually going to start statting up either Zak or Jarlaxle, but here, you beat me to Zak. By all means. :) Critalondel: I thought rather hard about what you mentioned prior to submitting the build, and this is the conclusion I arrived at: Given that Drow of comparable power (Dantrag, Jarlaxle) have typically come equipped with equipment that survives the Surface, I decided to eschew this. Zaknafein is stated as using very little magic, if any, beyond his arms and armor... and I figured what he did decide to use would not be of a sort to fall apart on him in a crunch. ;) EDIT: I'm going to be scouring my books for any weapon powers that would better serve this build (even as a substitute for Sharpness; it occurs to me that if Dantrag's sword would be identified as an intelligence Sharpness sword, so would have been Zaknafein's). UPDATE: Based on Zak's hatred for his fellow Drow, I've decided to make his primary sword a Bane weapon vs. Drow. For a while, I was actually tempted to making it Evithyan's Blade, from Player's Guide to Faerun. This was a blade forged in Myth Drannor and used by an elven hero (from whom the blade takes its name) against Drow. It becomes a +5 longsword against Drow, but, unlike a normal Bane weapon it deals CON damage (2d4/hit; reduce dmg by 1/2 on successful DC 20 Fort save). Thanks again for the suggestions.
Lord Karsus 04-11-07, 11:04 AM	By all means. :) -Excellent. You'll get credit, of course.
Sortfiere 04-11-07, 03:04 PM	See what you done did! You made me go and dust off Homeland again :plotting:
Ayden 04-11-07, 04:21 PM	Fighter lvl 24. He could use a Stick as a very accurate Weapon. He, for sure, can use a whip without any problem. He should be able to use anyweapon (exotic or not) without a problem. -4 on attack is not really a problem with BAB 24 *g* That's very true, at his current level he could more than likely use a stick to beat most things to death. But, and I am in no way taking away from the build, he would have more than likely used a whip sometime before his 24th level. So at lower levels, that -4 penalty is actually quite hefty. Additionally, didn't he strike a priestess in the mouth with the whip and though it may have been just flavor text, in second edition the penalties for that type of called shot would have been pretty high, add on an additional -4 and its terribly difficult to achieve, even in the THACO days of D&D. I guess my primary point is that he wouldn't have just picked up a whip and used it without training. A seasoned vetrean would have relied upon the things that he could use best. Anyways this is just a small thing and doesn't really impact the great quality of Philalexandros' build. So take it as you will. :D
Philalexandros 04-11-07, 05:19 PM	A gentleman named Zakman PM'd me and pointed out something I should have caught while making the build: Zaknafein, as written up by, only has a DEX of 22, but Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting requires a DEX of 25. I find myself conflicted now; should I shift his Ability Increases to grant him a DEX of 25... Or should I assume that Zaknafein would have had access to a variant of the Melee-Magthere Master's Ring--similar to the one Ryld Argith was given for his rank?
The_Shaman 04-11-07, 05:27 PM	Can we simply assume that Zak had rolled good ability scores to begin with?
Philalexandros 04-11-07, 06:37 PM	Good question. I went back over the opening chapters of Homeland. Sure enough, Zaknafein remarks that Drizzt's feat--the flipping and catching of 5 coins in each hand with ease on the first try--was something that he himself had needed a dozen attempts for. With that in mind, I think his original DEX (19, prior to level adjustments) was right. I think I will ultimately give him a ring of a Master of Melee-Magthere.
Grandmaster_Kane 04-11-07, 07:09 PM	i dont get where you got the oversize weapons from he is never stated as having larger weapons then normal other than that great job now to Uthegental
Philalexandros 04-11-07, 07:21 PM	Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting is a feat that allows a warrior to wield two equally-sized weapons (like two longswords) without incurring the additional penalty for not having a light weapon on his or her off-hand. Ordinarily, Zak would suffer a -4 penalty to both his primary and off-hand weapon attacks (since his off-hand longsword isn't a light weapon). With this feat, though, he suffers only a -2 penalty.
redmagefish 04-11-07, 07:26 PM	drizzt is said to be part gray or moon elf and his father must have had a bit of gray or moon elf in him either at or the matron mother did i do not think so . there for he must have had some gray or moon elf in him .
Grandmaster_Kane 04-11-07, 08:29 PM	drizzt is said to be part gray or moon elf and his father must have had a bit of gray or moon elf in him either at or the matron mother did i do not think so . there for he must have had some gray or moon elf in him . drizzt is 100% drow dude the whole moon elf thing is fan speculation
Philalexandros 04-11-07, 09:31 PM	Ask... and ye shall receive (within limits!). Uthegentel Armgo, Patron and Weaponmaster of House Barrison Del'Armgo Male Drow Elf Fighter 10, Barbarian 5, Frenzied Berserker 5 CE Medium Humanoid (elf) Init +8; Senses include darkvision; Listen +5, Spot +4 Spell Resistance 31 ------------------------------------------------------------ AC 27, touch 14, flat-footed 23 (25/12/23 when Raging; 23/10/23 when Frenzying; +4 Dex, +13 armor) Hp 218 (258 while Raging; 10d10+40; 5d12+20; 5d12+20) Fort +16, Ref +10, Will +7; (+2 against spells and spell-like abilities) ------------------------------------------------------------ Speed 40 ft. (8 squares) Melee +5 black adamantite Trident +35/+30/+25/+20 (1d8+16/18-20/x2) (Raging) +37/+32/+27/+22 (1d8+18/18-20/x2) (Frenzying) +38/+38/+33/+28/+23 (1d8+19/18-20/x2) Base Atk +20 Special Atk: Sundering attacks ------------------------------------------------------------ Abilities Str 22 (28; 32 while Raging, 34 while Frenzying), Dex 18, Con 18 (22 while Raging), Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 12 Notes: I added +1 to Uthegental's INT, as 2E Drow of the Underdark only indicated a +1 racial bonus to that attribute, as opposed to the current +2. Beyond that, his 5 attribute increases were applied thus--STR +4, and CON +1. SQ Drow traits: Darkvision, Light Blindness, Spell Resistance, Will save bonuses. Barbarian abilities: Fast movement, improved uncanny dodge, sense traps, Rage 2/day. Frenzied Berserker abilities: Frenzy 3/day, deathless frenzy, diehard, improved power attack, supreme cleave. Feats: Blind Fight, Cleave, Destructive Rage, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (trident), Improved Initiative, Intimidating Rage, Improved Sunder, Power Attack, Power Critical, Weapon Focus (trident), and Weapon Specialization (trident). Skills: Climb +18 (9 ranks), Intimidate +24 (15 ranks; always uses STR-intimidate), Jump +23 (14 ranks), Listen +5 (4 ranks), Spot +4 (3 ranks). Possessions: +5 black adamantite Trident, Uthegental's Net of Entrapment (unique), Uthegental's Throat-Pin of Giant Strength (unique), a suit of black mithril full plate mail +5, and a pair of Boots of Speed. Uthegentel's Net of Entrapment: This foul item is an elaborately decorated combat net, made of finely-wrought black silk strands resembling a web. A successful ranged attack with it inflicts upon its target a 10th-level strength Evard's Black Tentacles spell (whose are of effect is limited to the net alone). The net shifts into a mass of horrid appendages that equally resemble tentacles, spider legs, and strands of web. Uthegentel takes great pleasure in skewering foes trapped within the horrid tentacles his net releases. Uthegentel's Throat Pin of Power: This pin resembles a Del'Armgo House insignia, with runes of strength and power carved inside its borders. It grants Uthegentel a +6 STR bonus and acts as a Ring of Freedom of Movement. It is worth noting that this item was designed originally to be an amulet. Uthegental chooses to wear it pinned through his throat. Notes: I obviously took some liberties with Uthegentel's equipment. I kept his weapon somewhat mundane for a reason, given that Uthegental himself is the engine behind most of the damage he deals. I made his armor made of mithril, to better suit his mobile nature. There is not Net of Entrapment that I remember, and I took the opportunity to use a more disgusting ability that served a similar purpose. His pin is somewhat improved as well. ------------------------------------------------------------ Description: Where Zaknafein was famed throughout Menzoberranzan as the finest Weaponmaster, Uthegentel was infamous as the most dangerous Drow of the city. Streeaka Droc'uh (Mad Dragon), Elgg-hor (the Destroyer), and Ultrin Sargtlin (Supreme Warrior) were only some of the nicknames and titles he earned over his centuries-long reign of terror and violence. Physically, Uthegentel is the stuff of nightmares. At 6 feet tall and weighing in at 200lbs of pure, rock-solid muscle, most Drow doubt the Del'Armgo patron is even truly a member of their race. As if his appearance was not already intimidating enough, Uthegentel has taken to ritual scarification, facial paints, and piercings to add to his fearsome mien. Lightning designs and chaotic spiral designs adorn his face and neck areas; metallic pins protrude from both his cheeks, and mithril studs and rings adorn his nostrils and ears. Protruding from his neck is a massive Del'Armgo insignia, which is rumored to be a source of only a fraction of his power. Uthegentel is almost always found wearing a suit of wicked, full plate armour forged from a rare, corrupted vein of black mithril ore. Uthegentel growls more than he speaks, and seems to always be on the verge of one of his legendary rages. He finds it very difficult to be still; he tends to pace to and fro, or stretch and flex his muscular frame to relieve his always-building tension. His blood-red eyes betray the frenzying madness that is always ready to take hold of his being; his brow is furrowed and knitting, and his teeth, sharpened canines and all, are constantly in a state of grinding. "The Mad Dragon" is completely loyal to Mez'Barris and the Del'Armgo family, but this is only because the fierce Matron Mother possesses a zeal for war that he finds admirable. Uthegentel lives only to fight and to breed, and it is only after such activity that he can be found in states of relative lucidity. Legends abound regarding the exorbitant number of slave fodder Mez'Barris has to purchase simply so her Patron can have victims to sate his bloodlust. On the other end of his spectrum of activities, Uthegental is kept as House Patron and as sire to not only Matron Mother Mez'Barris Armgo, but also to a great number of her House's females--which explains the unusual size of Barrison Del'Armgo's warriors. "The Supreme Warrior" is rumored to have been bested by only one Drow--Zaknafein, the Weaponmaster of House Do'Urden. Neither of them have ever spoken of this affair. Stories are whispered, though, of Uthegentel's challenge to Zaknafein. Always willing to oblige, Zaknafein met the crazed warrior in a private bout away from watchful eyes. Both returned alive, but Uthegentel ever after kept his hair closely-shorn where once it had been thick and long. Those who dare spread rumors regarding this man softly whisper that this was the price Zaknafein required to grant Uthegentel his life. ------------------------------------------------------------ Sources PHB 3.5, DMG 3.5, FRCS, Magic of Faerun, Races of Faerun, Epic Level Handbook, Menzoberranzan Boxed Set.
Lord Karsus 04-12-07, 08:55 AM	drizzt is said to be part gray or moon elf and his father must have had a bit of gray or moon elf in him either at or the matron mother did i do not think so . there for he must have had some gray or moon elf in him . drizzt is 100% drow dude the whole moon elf thing is fan speculation -Um, yeah, it sure is some baseless speculation. The novels pretty clearly state that Zaknafein is Drizzt's father, and that Malice is Drizzt's mother. Not too much Moon Elf blood in that pairing...:rolleyes:
Critalondel 04-12-07, 12:01 PM	drizzt is said to be part gray or moon elf and his father must have had a bit of gray or moon elf in him either at or the matron mother did i do not think so . there for he must have had some gray or moon elf in him . What makes you say that? Got a source to back it up, or anything?
Alurvelve 04-12-07, 01:11 PM	Drizzt has no Moon elf in him, he is 100% drow by blood. There is no source that leads you to believe otherwise.
redmagefish 04-12-07, 03:54 PM	well lets wait in see maybe not moon but there is some thing about him. and do you have source to prove that he is drow not really. zaknafein may have been a worshiper of lady moon and forced to find it when he was it menzo i know i know he has no priest levels for any god but you can worship a god and not take levels and really tell me one source not in novel that says hes 100 drow
Grandmaster_Kane 04-12-07, 04:01 PM	well lets wait in see maybe not moon but there is some thing about him. and do you have source to prove that he is drow not really. zaknafein may have been a worshiper of lady moon and forced to find it when he was it menzo i know i know he has no priest levels for any god but you can worship a god and not take levels and really tell me one source not in novel that says hes 100 drow tell me one that says he isnt -:confused:
redmagefish 04-12-07, 04:04 PM	thats my point
Philalexandros 04-12-07, 05:48 PM	Well, let's see. Every single source that uses gaming stats states he is a Drow Elf or Dark Elf. That could be *one* such source. Alternately, you could go off of every single novel that categorically states that he is a Drow Elf born to Drow Elves. Beyond that, the onus is on you to cite a single instance that he has *anything* to do with Moon Elves. I'll save you some time, though: there isn't. Not a single one.
redmagefish 04-12-07, 06:07 PM	not novel and did r.a write his stats no but did he writ the book yes see both mean nothing novels can use it has a plot turn and the source books are not on drizzt are not r.a work
Philalexandros 04-12-07, 06:32 PM	First, I apologize if English isn't your first language, but please try to type legibly. It's almost impossible to make out what you're trying to say. Second. Not novel? Why not? R.A. Salvatore, more than anyone else, knows exactly what Drizzt Do'Urden is. When he says he is a Drow Elf, he is exactly that. Drizzt's game stats in both the "Hall of Heroes" FR sourcebook and the Menzoberranzan Boxed Set were written by R.A. Salvatore. In both, he specifically states he is a Drow Elf. Conversely, there isn't a single source that states he or Zaknafein are Moon Elves.
redmagefish 04-12-07, 06:38 PM	forgotten it we will wait and see and german is my first
Philalexandros 04-12-07, 06:42 PM	Fair enough; I guarantee you won't find it, though. Just as I guarantee you that everything RA Salvatore--including official stats that he wrote--states he is a Drow Elf born of Drow Elves.
Lord Karsus 04-12-07, 07:41 PM	well lets wait in see maybe not moon but there is some thing about him. -Other than the fact that he had some kind of conscience, no, no there wasn't. and do you have source to prove that he is drow not really. -He is referenced as a Drow in all of the places he is mentioned, in multiple sources. zaknafein may have been a worshiper of lady moon and forced to find it when he was it menzo... -If by "Lady Moon" you mean Eilistraee, than no, Zak was not a follower of Eilistraee. He was a Lolthite. tell me one source not in novel that says hes 100 drow -See above. not novel and did r.a write his stats no but did he writ the book yes see both mean nothing novels can use it has a plot turn and the source books are not on drizzt are not r.a work -Should a sourcebook say that Zak was left-handed and colorblind, he would be left-handed and colorblind, no matter what Salvatore thought about it.
Grandmaster_Kane 04-12-07, 08:49 PM	Ask... and ye shall receive (within limits!). Uthegentel Armgo, Patron and Weaponmaster of House Barrison Del'Armgo Male Drow Elf Fighter 10, Barbarian 5, Frenzied Berserker 5 CE Medium Humanoid (elf) Init +8; Senses include darkvision; Listen +5, Spot +4 Spell Resistance 31 ------------------------------------------------------------ AC 27, touch 14, flat-footed 23 (25/12/23 when Raging; 23/10/23 when Frenzying; +4 Dex, +13 armor) Hp 218 (258 while Raging; 10d10+40; 5d12+20; 5d12+20) Fort +16, Ref +10, Will +7; (+2 against spells and spell-like abilities) ------------------------------------------------------------ Speed 40 ft. (8 squares) Melee +5 black adamantite Trident +35/+30/+25/+20 (1d8+16/18-20/x2) (Raging) +37/+32/+27/+22 (1d8+18/18-20/x2) (Frenzying) +38/+38/+33/+28/+23 (1d8+19/18-20/x2) Base Atk +20 Special Atk: Sundering attacks ------------------------------------------------------------ Abilities Str 22 (28; 32 while Raging, 34 while Frenzying), Dex 18, Con 18 (22 while Raging), Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 12 Notes: I added +1 to Uthegental's INT, as 2E Drow of the Underdark only indicated a +1 racial bonus to that attribute, as opposed to the current +2. Beyond that, his 5 attribute increases were applied thus--STR +4, and CON +1. SQ Drow traits: Darkvision, Light Blindness, Spell Resistance, Will save bonuses. Barbarian abilities: Fast movement, improved uncanny dodge, sense traps, Rage 2/day. Frenzied Berserker abilities: Frenzy 3/day, deathless frenzy, diehard, improved power attack, supreme cleave. Feats: Blind Fight, Cleave, Destructive Rage, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (trident), Improved Initiative, Intimidating Rage, Improved Sunder, Power Attack, Power Critical, Weapon Focus (trident), and Weapon Specialization (trident). Skills: Climb +18 (9 ranks), Intimidate +24 (15 ranks; always uses STR-intimidate), Jump +23 (14 ranks), Listen +5 (4 ranks), Spot +4 (3 ranks). Possessions: +5 black adamantite Trident, Uthegental's Net of Entrapment (unique), Uthegental's Throat-Pin of Giant Strength (unique), a suit of black mithril full plate mail +5, and a pair of Boots of Speed. Uthegentel's Net of Entrapment: This foul item looks like a normal (if elaborate) combat net, of finely-wrought black silk strands made to resemble a web. A successful ranged attack with it inflicts upon its target (and its target alone) a 10th-level power Evard's Black Tentacles spell of limited area of effect. Uthegentel takes great pleasure in skewering foes trapped within the horrid tentacles his net releases. Uthegentel's Throat Pin of Power: This pin resembles a Del'Armgo House insignia, with runes of strength and power carved inside its borders. It grants Uthegentel a +6 STR bonus and acts as a Ring of Freedom of Movement. It is worth noting that this item was designed originally to be an amulet. Uthegental chooses to wear it pinned through his throat. Notes: I obviously took some liberties with Uthegentel's equipment. I kept his weapon somewhat mundane for a reason, given that Uthegental himself is the engine behind most of the damage he deals. I made his armor made of mithril, to better suit his mobile nature. There is not Net of Entrapment that I remember, and I took the opportunity to use a more disgusting ability that served a similar purpose. His pin is somewhat improved as well. ------------------------------------------------------------ Description: Where Zaknafein was famed throughout Menzoberranzan as the finest Weaponmaster, Uthegentel was infamous as the most dangerous Drow of the city. Streeaka Droc'uh (Mad Dragon), Elgg-hor (the Destroyer), and Ultrin Sargtlin (Supreme Warrior) were only some of the nicknames and titles he earned over his centuries-long reign of terror and violence. Physically, Uthegentel is the stuff of nightmares. At 6 feet tall and weighing in at 200lbs of pure, rock-solid muscle, most Drow doubt the Del'Armgo patron is even truly a member of their race. As if his appearance was not already intimidating enough, Uthegentel has taken to ritual scarification, facial paints, and piercings to add to his fearsome mien. Lightning designs and chaotic spiral designs adorn his face and neck areas; metallic pins protrude from either cheek, and mithril rings and studs adorn his nose and ears. Protruding from his neck is a massive Del'Armgo insignia, which is rumored to be a source of only a fraction of his power. Completing his daily outfit is a suit of wicked, full platemail of armor made out of a corrupted mithril vein whose ore was black, with silver highlights--like stars in the night. Uthegentel growls more than he speaks, and seems always on the verge of one of his legendary rages. He can never stand still, and is always one to pace to and fro and stretch/flex his muscular frame as if to relieve building tension. His blood-red eyes betray the frenzying madness that is always on the verge of possessing his being outright; his brow is constantly furrowed and knitting, and his teeth, sharpened canines and all, are always in a state of grinding. "The Mad Dragon" is completely loyal to Mez'Barris and thefamily, but this is only because the fierce Matron Mother possesses a zeal for war that he can admire. Uthegentel lives only to fight and to breed, and it is only through such activity that he can be forced into states of relative lucidity. Legends abound regarding the exorbitant number of slave fodder Mez'Barris has to purchase simply so her Patron can have victims to sate his bloodlust. On the other end of his spectrum of activities, Uthegental is kept as House Patron and as sire to not only Matron Mother Mez'Barris Armgo, but also to the majority of her House's females--which explains the unusual size of Barrison Del'Armgo's warriors. "The Supreme Warrior" is rumored to have been bested by only one Drow--Zaknafein, the Weaponmaster of House Do'Urden. Neither of the Drow have ever spoken of this affair. As the stories go, Uthegentel once secretly challenged Zaknafein to a duel. Always willing to oblige, Zaknafein met the crazed warrior in a private bout away from watchful eyes. Both returned alive, but Uthegentel ever after kept his hair closely-shorn where once it had been thick and long. Those who dare spread rumors regarding this man softly whisper that this was the price Zaknafein required to grant Uthegentel his life. ------------------------------------------------------------ Sources PHB 3.5, DMG 3.5, FRCS, Magic of Faerun, Races of Faerun, Epic Level Handbook, Menzoberranzan Boxed Set. i would chage a few parts but largly i llove this build GJ
Sortfiere 04-13-07, 03:24 PM	In the beginning of the 2ed sourcebook Drow of the Underdark, there is a passage that described drow physical features, including eyes. It mentioned that blue and purple were unusual colors for drow and "usually denote human or surface elven blood somewhere in the drow's ancestry" even so, usually /= definitely. It has never been elaborated anywhere by anyone having more than just conjecture over Drizzt's lineage that he or Zak have surface elf blood in them.
Treymordin 04-13-07, 09:56 PM	From everything that I have ever read that is not possible.
Lord Karsus 04-13-07, 10:35 PM	From everything that I have ever read that is not possible. -As per D&D stats, when a Drow mates with another Elf, more often than not, the offspring has the D&D stats of a Drow, the appearance of a Drow, and so on. But, that doesn't mean that said offspring doesn't have X Elven blood in him. Think of it this way- Even though you might not have the actual physical characteristics, you might have as an ancestor, someone who is radically different from you.
DojiHoturi 04-13-07, 11:49 PM	Keep in mind, the drow were once surface elves themselves. The magics that sent them underground and turned their skin black may also have changed their eye colorations, but that is never actually stated. It could be that eye color over time has just shifted through natural selection to what is most common now (red), but that the blue and violet are just like being blue eyed in our world, rare. It just happens that those colors are now associated with the surface elves as they remember them with all the stigmas that go with that mind set. Blue eyed drow could be just that, blue eyed drow. They just happed to have a feature that reminds other drow of their surface cousins. There was a time not too long ago in our world that thought left handed folks had connections with demons and the devil, hence the term 'sinister' for 'left.' Superstition can be an ugly thing, and there is no reason not to think that it does not exist in your fantasy campaign. Imagine, for example, the idea that that there are imaginary creatures in your campaign that are actually just that, imaginary. 2 pennies
Philalexandros 04-14-07, 01:11 AM	Just my opinion, but I doubt anything about the Drow (or any other Elves, really) has to do with evolution or environmental influences. I would be wary of using scientific concepts on a race that was created "immaculate" (that is, already in the desired image set by its creator deity).
Lord Karsus 04-15-07, 05:38 PM	-Correct. Elves do not physically evolve.
Alurvelve 04-15-07, 07:22 PM	I am cuious if you plan to do Dantrag as well? You have done 2 of the 3 bet weapon masters Menzo has known but what of the third?
Philalexandros 04-15-07, 07:49 PM	I would need to re-read Starless Night. To be completely honest, I've never been too excited about Dantrag. He, like Uthegental, was more a product of his equipment than anything else. The latter at least was interesting by virtue of his unusual (for a Drow) image, and was thus worth the effort. Dantrag, on the other hand, is little more than a high level Fighter with a great sword and a set of unusual bracers. I might tackle it, but not for a few more days. :)
Critalondel 04-16-07, 11:11 AM	I would need to re-read Starless Night. To be completely honest, I've never been too excited about Dantrag. He, like Uthegental, was more a product of his equipment than anything else. Sounds like most high level characters, to me. ;)
Philalexandros 04-16-07, 05:48 PM	The difference is that Dantrag was specifically qualified as such. Zaknafein was a Drow that actually disdained the use of powerful magic and like items, but was still described as a masterful warrior. Poor Dantrag, on the other hand, despite his levels, gains most of his power from items that Drizzt claims are of no use to the superior warrior--or might be a hindrance, even. The other thing about Dantrag is that there is also the allusion to the idea that he might have been overly-hyped due to being the Weaponmaster of the reigning Menzoberranyr House.
Alurvelve 04-16-07, 06:01 PM	Fear can be a poweful ally indeed, and I think that helped Dantrag a lot in his fights. Being the weaponmaster of thefirst house makes you double think about who your fighing. I think there was more hype to Dantrag than anything else. IMO it went Zak being best, Uthegental being 2nd and then Dantrag. Now that I'm thinking about it how old is Rlyd? I'm thinking he could take out Dantrag and probably give Uthegental a run for his money.
MsMarvelDuckie 04-16-07, 06:35 PM	The only difference between Drizzt and any other typical drow is the color of his eyes, but lavender is not unheard of in drow- he is more likely a throwback to the pre-Underdark days, or was touched by Eilistraee, whose followers sometimes have eye colors other than the usual red. Even Liriel Banere was considered odd for her amber eyes, and she was certainly pure drow. Zak is pure drow for certain- Malice would never have stood for a consort and house patron who was not!:twocents:
Philalexandros 04-16-07, 07:00 PM	That's my point: Ryld was likely a match for Dantrag, but the societal conventions of Menzoberranzan are such that a House-less Master could never get either the acclaim/infamy of a Weaponmaster of the First House... never mind a chance to knock him off without consequences.
TheCrescentSpider 04-16-07, 07:50 PM	A write-up for Zaknafein Do'Urden as a pure Fighter, using 3.5 rules... for those who wish to use him as such. :) Zaknafein Do'Urden, Weaponmaster of House Do'Urden Male Drow Elf Fighter 24 CN Medium Humanoid (elf) Init +13; Senses include darkvision; Listen +6, Spot +9 Spell Resistance 35 ------------------------------------------------------------ AC 28, touch 16, flat-footed 22 (+6 Dex, +8 armor, +4 natural armor) Hp 218 (20d10+60; 4d8+8) Fort +17, Ref +17, Will +11; (+2 against spells and spell-like abilities) ------------------------------------------------------------ Speed 30 ft. (6 squares) Melee +5 Vorpal longsword +30/+25/+20/+15 (1d8+11/17-20/x2) Melee +3 longsword +28/+23/+18/+13 (1d8+9/17-20/x2) Base Atk +22 Special Atk: Rending, 1d8+9 ------------------------------------------------------------ Abilities Str 16, Dex 22 (28), Con 16, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 16 Notes: I added +1 to Zak's INT, as 2E Drow of the Underdark only indicated a +1 racial bonus to that attribute, as opposed to the current +2. Beyond that, his 7 attribute increases were applied thus--STR +1 (he is described as strong, stronger than most females--enough to make Briza, who was rather large, fear him), DEX +3, WIS +1, CHA +2 (for intimidation purposes). SQ Drow traits: Darkvision, Light Blindness, Spell Resistance, Will save bonuses. Feats: Blind Fighting, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Epic Weapon Focus (longsword), Epic Weapon Specialization (longsword), Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Critical (longsword), Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Mobility, Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, Power Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Rend, Weapon Focus (longsword), and Weapon Specialization (longsword). Skills: Balance +12 (6 ranks), Bluff +14 (11 ranks), Climb +11 (8 ranks), Heal +6 (3 ranks), Hide +10 (+15 with his Boots; 4 ranks), Intimidate +10 (7 ranks), Jump +13 (10 ranks), Knowledge-Menzoberranzan +7 (4 ranks), Knowledge-Military Tactics +12 (9 ranks), Listen +6 (3 ranks), Move Silently +10 (+15 with his armor or Cloak; 4 ranks), Spellcraft +8 (5 ranks), Spot +9 (6 ranks), and Swim +5 (2 ranks). Possessions: +5 Keen, Drow Bane longsword, a +3 longsword, a ring of a Master of Melee Magthere (+4 Natural Armor bonus, +6 DEX; user is constantly under the effect of a Longstrider spell), a masterwork whip, Blushine Drow Chainmail of Nimbleness +3, Drow Boots (of Elvenkind), and 10 Light Pellets. Zaknafein also has an assortment of mundane equipment to assist him in his missions. He keeps masterwork daggers balanced for throwing and close-in fighting concealed in either of his boots, a third such blade in a hidden sheath strapped to the small of his back, and a punching dagger within the folds of his weapon-belt. Within a belt-pouch he has a good number of caltrops for discouraging pursuit. His waist-sash is made of thin silk that nonetheless equals climbing rope in strength and ends in unfolding hooks of enchanted strength. Notes: I largely used the references given in the Menzoberranzan boxed set and Homeland; I also allowed a healthy amount of influence from the War of the Spider Queen NPC write-ups into my work. Zaknafein was written up as having two +5 longswords and a suit of +5 chainmail. Aside from that, he is stated as having little other magic other than light pellets--and not needing it. The weapons and armor listed are powerful, but are unfortunately a throwback to a time when Drow equipment tended to have high bonuses but little detail or uniqueness. This can be attributed to the fact that a lot of equipment was made with Underdark Radiations, but I don't believe Zaknafein's equipment falls under that category. Going off of the description of the one sword Zak wields in the opening battle of Homeland, I think we can plausibly assume that one of his blades was exceptional beyond a mere high bonus. The text makes references to an "incredibly sharp blade" and "killing magics." I took a healthy amount of artistic license from that, and arrived at the descriptor above. ------------------------------------------------------------ Description: Zaknafein is a handsome enough, if dour-looking Drow elf. He carries himself with the ease and grace of a master warrior, his every move seemingly calculated for efficiency. The Weaponmaster of House Do'Urden appears very much the minimalist in appearance, wearing fine armor and bearing arms of obvious quality, but eschewing any extraneous adornment. Zaknafein doesn't talk as much as he observes, and makes no effort to disguise his gaze with friendliness. When he does speak, he is openly sardonic and even condescending to most of his fellow Drow. He reserves even grudging respect for only the Matrons who he feels ultimately control his destiny. Zaknafein's hatred for his fellow Drow is fierce, and fills his life with anger. He loathes the society he is forced to live in, but at the same time feels trapped and unable to escape. His only recourse is to do what he does best--slay as many of his evil kin as he can under the constraints of Lolth's wicked society. His choicest target is also the most dangerous in this deadly city: High Priestesses of the Spider Queen. Though his tastes are blasphemous, they do lend themselves to the upwardly mobile ambitions of House Do'Urden. As such, his skill and worth allows him to survive when so many others do not. As Weaponmaster of House Do'Urden, Zaknafein tackles his work with conflicting emotions. He trains his men to be the best warriors of Menzoberranzan, but he nonetheless hates them for the deeds he will commit. The Do'Urden soldiery may be a crack, elite unit, but none of them--in Zak's eyes, at least--are true warriors. Thus, when the time comes for battle, Zaknafein worries less about the survival of his men and more about decisive victory. So long as this is achieved, he can always train more murderers for Malice. It is in single combat that Zaknafein feels most free and reveals his true genius. A brilliant, calculating warrior, he is typically always several moves ahead of most opponents within seconds of the fight's start. He is capable of overwhelming the opposition with lightning-quick flurries of attacks, but he also utilizes feints, cunning tripping attacks, and disarming maneuvers to put foes in the worst position possible. While honorable--as far as Drow go--Zaknafein has no compunctions about using whatever means he has to in order to win. A swordmaster-savant whose craft can best be described as a brutal art, he would nonetheless never think twice about throwing sand in a foe's eye or stunning him with a low blow. ------------------------------------------------------------ Sources PHB 3.5, DMG 3.5, FRCS, Magic of Faerun, Races of Faerun, Epic Level Handbook. There is a prestige class called weapon master. I think Zaknafein should have at least a few levels in it. I also remember Drizzt being Zaknafein's equal. Yet Drizzt is a level 16. Shouldn't he be only 1 or 2 levels ahead? Other than that, i think that this is a good right up. Drizzt should learn the spell miracle and ask Miellikke to bring Zak back.
Philalexandros 04-16-07, 08:46 PM	1) Weapon Master the prestige class and Weaponmaster the title attributed to the premier fighter in a Drow House are two different things. 2) Drizzt was by no means Zaknafein's equal, as even a cursory read through Homeland and Exile will show. Drizzt has the *potential* to surpass Zaknafein, and the latter states exactly that. Zaknafein has always been stated at 24th level, and the highest Drizzt was listed during 2E was as an 18th level Fighter (later, all his levels got converted to Ranger). This is apropos, considering that a decent parry and a kick or two are the best the son is able to inflict on the father prior to the end of the first book. ;) One more thing: during Passage to Dawn, Drizzt suspects that his father's soul might be held captive by Errtu. Priestly magic reveals that this is not the case, and that his spirit is at peace. This goes hand in hand with a lack of novelized resurrection, but goes against established Realms metaphysics, which assert that Zaknafein would be in one of two places: 1) Lolthite hell (or, rather, Abyss) for being a blasphemous murderer of Lolth's priestess, or... 2) Decomposing as part of the wall of unbelievers at Kelemvor's realm. That's assuming, of course, that Zaknafein wasn't secretely worshipping someone else without said belief having been described in the novels (unlikely, given his desperation and jaded outlook).
MsMarvelDuckie 04-16-07, 10:12 PM	While it's true that Zak lived in a house of Lolthites, it was stated many times that he hated the Spider Queen, and even cursed her name to Drizzt. so I doubt he actually worshipped her. He might have ended up in the wall, but given his personality and concience, he more likely ended up in Arvandor, as do most elves. (Yes, even dark elves of good heart are allowed in, at least in Eilistraee's domain.)
Lord Karsus 04-16-07, 11:16 PM	While it's true that Zak lived in a house of Lolthites, it was stated many times that he hated the Spider Queen, and even cursed her name to Drizzt. so I doubt he actually worshipped her. He might have ended up in the wall, but given his personality and concience, he more likely ended up in Arvandor, as do most elves. (Yes, even dark elves of good heart are allowed in, at least in Eilistraee's domain.) -Zaknafein was still a Lolthite, though. Thus, his spirit should have wound up in the Demonweb Pits. One could make an argument that it should have ended up on the Wall of the False. Theoretically, there could have been some Divine power brokering going on, and involved Zaknafeins spirit, allowing him to be somewhere other than the Demonweb Pits. Drizzt should learn the spell miracle and ask Miellikke to bring Zak back. -You do realize that Drizzt has no spellcasting capabilities, right?
MsMarvelDuckie 04-16-07, 11:51 PM	Where did it ever say he was a Lolthite? I honestly don't remember ever seeing this in any of the books. Simply being patron of a drow house does not mean he shared their beliefs. He told Drizzt that he never even shared in that faith. So why would he end in the Demonweb Pits? He shared the same basic beliefs as Drizzt, even if he never gave them a name.
Philalexandros 04-17-07, 12:37 AM	LK alludes to the idea that one needs not be an active participant/worshipper in the sense of being aligned with the church; that actively believing and accepting that Lolth has power over you, etc., is enough to have you consigned to whatever rewards/punishments she has in store for you. Failing that, unless there was an (unusual) amount of brokering going on, Zaknafein would, as I said, suffer the fate of the Faithless. Don't get me wrong; I like the idea that one of the Seldarine deities scooped him up, and perhaps that was RAS' intent... but then again, Ryld's fate doesn't exactly make that seem likely.
r6art 04-17-07, 07:51 AM	Zaknafein was trapped in a Lolthite city, in a Lolthite House, surrounded by Lolthite priestesses. He hated Lolth and her servants, but didn't have any way out that he could see (being too world-weary to even contemplate escape). I would venture to say that his surrender to that inevitability rules out his worshipping any other diety.
r6art 04-17-07, 07:57 AM	Something someone said earlier reminds me of the biggest weakness (of many) in the official FRCS build for Drizzt. Zaknafein's whole argument for training D as a warrior instead of as a mage was his supernatural Dexterity. Why then does he only have a Dex of 20? Given all the "perfect balance" and "all non-drow sux" hyperbole in RAS novels, I gotta wonder why D would've spent those ability score increases on Int or Wis.
Philalexandros 04-17-07, 08:32 AM	Well, the answer to that question is simple. Drizzt *didn't* spend attribute increases on non-DEX stats. Technically, he *never* got any attribute increases, period. Drizzt's 1E and 2E stats reflected the fact that he was an exceptional Drow. After all, he was more than qualified to be a wizard, and, technically, a cleric as well. 3E FRCS made some odd decisions. They decided conversion rules would only work so far in some cases (no level-based increases), and would work to the point of silliness (level-based wealth limits for unique NPCs that shouldn't fall in the cookie-cutter mold). You'll notice that I followed neither practice in my builds, above. Were Drizzt to be properly converted according to the rules,* he would get would get 4 ability increases. I would assume that 3 to DEX and 1 to STR, or 4 to DEX, would be the best way to handle it. * Yes, that means that non-RAS NPCs as well.
The_Shaman 04-17-07, 09:19 AM	1) Weapon Master the prestige class and Weaponmaster the title attributed to the premier fighter in a Drow House are two different things. Doesn't mean he can't be both, though. A weaponmaster specializes in a certain weapon, and Zaknafein was really good with his swords. Weaponmaster or tempest might be good classes if you feel like it, but need not be included. Speaking of which, would you consider it justified if Weapon master levels count for fighter levels as far as feats are concerned? It's a bit weird a fighter can get weapon supremacy and a weaponmaster can't.
Philalexandros 04-17-07, 01:07 PM	I tend to not see the Weapon Master class as a good fit for Zak because of various allusions made in the novel. Zak's apartments include an armory with a fairly wide collection of weapons (polearms, scimitars, swords of different types, etc.). His own use of weapons and styles does not point to a specific "weapon of choice," despite for his penchant for a sword. Likewise, the Tempest is a dedicated two-weapon class, but we know that Zaknafein was not afraid to go one-handed or to mix weapons. :)
The_Shaman 04-17-07, 03:08 PM	It's true, but any true fighter is already skilled with various weapons. A fighter with 10+ levels in the class is likely to be able to use practically any weapon made ever with skill and expertise, in any style he wants. How many feats does it take to get melee weapon mastery anyway? From the 10th or so level on, any full BAB class he engages in won't detract from that.
Philalexandros 04-17-07, 05:05 PM	Are we talking about the same Weapon Master class? The class I'm thinking of was most recently turned into the Kensai in the Complete Warrior book. It requires a Lawful alignment, to begin with, its lack of feats is the thing I'm most concerned about (it pigeonholes Zak into a single major fighting tree that doesn't necessarily address the entirety of his skills), and its powers don't really match his description that much.
Grandmaster_Kane 04-18-07, 03:15 PM	Are we talking about the same Weapon Master class? The class I'm thinking of was most recently turned into the Kensai in the Complete Warrior book. It requires a Lawful alignment, to begin with, its lack of feats is the thing I'm most concerned about (it pigeonholes Zak into a single major fighting tree that doesn't necessarily address the entirety of his skills), and its powers don't really match his description that much. Kensai and weapon master are two different classes but they are mighty similar
Philalexandros 04-18-07, 06:29 PM	Can you tell me where the Weapon Master class is?
Lord Karsus 04-18-07, 06:35 PM	Can you tell me where the Weapon Master class is? -There is are multiple versions. There is a version in Oriental Adventures, as well as a version in The Complete...series. Don't know if they are the same...
Philalexandros 04-18-07, 07:00 PM	Yeah, those were the only ones I knew of. They all are either the Kensai or a derivative of it. I don't see them fitting Zak.
The_Shaman 04-18-07, 07:10 PM	The Weapon Master I know and refer to as such is in Oriental Adventures, and I think it was in Sword and Fist before that. The Kensai from CWarrior is a different concept, and not an 3.5 adaptation IMO.
Alurvelve 04-18-07, 09:23 PM	I don't think the Weapon Master from the sword and fist book fits Zak, not to mention that it is out of date being as it's 3.0 and not 3.5
Alurvelve 04-18-07, 10:47 PM	Ok lets see. The best of the best from Menzo in melee dead or alive. We have several, but who are we missing? In no particular Order Zak: Drizzt: Uthegental: Jarlaxle: Dantrag: Rlyd: Berg'inyon:
Philalexandros 04-18-07, 11:37 PM	How about that Drow commander from the WotSQ series? I'll be away for a couple of days, but when I get back I hope to have his name and some basic info.
Thanael 04-19-07, 07:55 AM	I'm very torn about his sword. The language in "Homeland" implies something rather special, and were we dealing with 2E I would be much more inclined to use the "Sharpness" quality for it. I know that Keen is the byword for this nowadays, but I can't see Zak's one specifically praised sword being simply redundant to his Improved Critical feat. I hear you. And that among other things is why IMHO keen and improved crit should stack (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/keenimprovedcritstacking.html). BTW do you know the excellent fanfiction by Lady Selinthia? It has Zaknafein surviving - in a manner of speaking - as a undead zincarla and you could say finding peace in the outer realms. Links: http://www.deathstar.org/~krlipka/ps/fiction/archive/pd-conversations.html http://www.deathstar.org/~krlipka/ps/fiction/archive/playdust.html There are some more stories by Selinthia available: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rls=GGGL%2CGGGL%3A2006-19%2CGGGL%3Aen&q=selinthia+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.deat hstar.org%2F&btnG=Search As for Prestige Classes i have seen builds of Zak with levels in Lasher, though I think that's overdoing it. Ancestral avenger (from Dragon) though is a class that i could definately see him having 1 or 2 levels in. That would be preferable to a bane weapon imo. I very much liked 2E's plain +5 swords. Make them keen if you allow stacking.
Lord Karsus 04-19-07, 09:17 AM	Rlyd: -Ryld is given a full stat entry in an early 300 issue of DRAGON Magazine.
Zanan 04-19-07, 09:59 AM	Ok lets see. The best of the best from Menzo in melee dead or alive. We have several, but who are we missing? In no particular Order Zak: Drizzt: Uthegental: Jarlaxle: Dantrag: Rlyd: Berg'inyon: How about Andzrel Baenre (male drow, *Ftr?) "Weapon Master of House Baenre", Commander of the Army of the Black Spider?
Alurvelve 04-19-07, 03:48 PM	IDk if Andzrel could measure up to these guys. He would be what the 3rd weapons master of House Baenre in like a 29 year time span. Power wise he was fighting Nimor 1 on 1 until the wizard showed, but I think he was loseing till then too, or that Nimor was toying with him at the least. So if I had to stat him he would definatly be lower than what Nimor was statted at in the Dragons mag. LK I know what all the characters stats I listed are, but did not want to put them for I do not want this to become a deate on wo thinks they should be what.
r6art 04-19-07, 04:10 PM	Well, the answer to that question is simple. Drizzt *didn't* spend attribute increases on non-DEX stats. Technically, he *never* got any attribute increases, period. Drizzt's 1E and 2E stats reflected the fact that he was an exceptional Drow. After all, he was more than qualified to be a wizard, and, technically, a cleric as well. 3E FRCS made some odd decisions. They decided conversion rules would only work so far in some cases (no level-based increases), and would work to the point of silliness (level-based wealth limits for unique NPCs that shouldn't fall in the cookie-cutter mold). You'll notice that I followed neither practice in my builds, above. Were Drizzt to be properly converted according to the rules,* he would get would get 4 ability increases. I would assume that 3 to DEX and 1 to STR, or 4 to DEX, would be the best way to handle it. * Yes, that means that non-RAS NPCs as well. Bless you Phil, you suddenly make lots of sense! (and lots of money, too, just in case my blessing is worth something)
TheCrescentSpider 04-19-07, 04:40 PM	-Zaknafein was still a Lolthite, though. Thus, his spirit should have wound up in the Demonweb Pits. One could make an argument that it should have ended up on the Wall of the False. Theoretically, there could have been some Divine power brokering going on, and involved Zaknafeins spirit, allowing him to be somewhere other than the Demonweb Pits. -You do realize that Drizzt has no spellcasting capabilities, right? Yes but he should cuz Zak was such a good character. And i realize that the title and class are different, but he should still have the class.
Lord Karsus 04-19-07, 06:57 PM	LK I know what all the characters stats I listed are, but did not want to put them for I do not want this to become a deate on wo thinks they should be what. -Oh, gotcha. Well, for whoever wants to make the stats up, that is a good basis/starting point. Yes but he should cuz Zak was such a good character. -Okay, if you consider cold-blooded murdereds good characters (as in the alignment)... And i realize that the title and class are different, but he should still have the class. -Alright, but Zaknafein has never exhibited any sort of magical inclination. That and no male priests of Lolth are allowed in the orthodox Menzoberranzan...
Grandmaster_Kane 04-19-07, 07:32 PM	-Ryld is given a full stat entry in an early 300 issue of DRAGON Magazine. What is his backstory? ive never heard of him
The_Shaman 04-19-07, 08:43 PM	I don't think the Weapon Master from the sword and fist book fits Zak, not to mention that it is out of date being as it's 3.0 and not 3.5 When OA was updated to 3.5, there were no changes for the Weaponmaster. Hence, it is perfectly valid for 3.5, possibly with taking the new skill/feat names into account. The question is, is there a weapon in which Zaknafein really specializes in? If you think that's the longsword, there's no problem statting him with a few more WM levels. If not, your call.
Lord Karsus 04-19-07, 08:44 PM	What is his backstory? ive never heard of him -He is an original character from the War of the Spider Queen series. As such, all of the information pertaining to him can be found in the various novels from the War of the Spider Queen series
Alurvelve 04-20-07, 12:39 AM	There is a little tid bit about him in the Dragon magazine as well that talks about his past, and fills you in about him to the start of the series. I'll dig through to find that one and post a little abbreveation of what is said.
Zanan 04-20-07, 04:46 AM	IDk if Andzrel could measure up to these guys. He would be what the 3rd weapons master of House Baenre in like a 29 year time span. Power wise he was fighting Nimor 1 on 1 until the wizard showed, but I think he was loseing till then too, or that Nimor was toying with him at the least. So if I had to stat him he would definatly be lower than what Nimor was statted at in the Dragons mag. LK I know what all the characters stats I listed are, but did not want to put them for I do not want this to become a deate on wo thinks they should be what. Well, remember that Ryld just came up out of nowhere in these novels (much like Andrzel), yet was a 17th level chap (ECL 19). Nimor (Dragon 322) had 16 class levels on top of being a drow dragon (ECL of 19+). Who knows what level Andrzel c/would be, for I wouldn't expect Triel naming anything else but an elite fighter weapon master of her House. in any case, it is just as hypothetical as is the debate who was and is best of living renegades and dead weapon masters. ;)
Alurvelve 04-20-07, 03:52 PM	If I remember right Andrzel used a double bladed sword didnt he? If so he would be perfect for the Exotic Weapon Master Prc. Maybe something like Fighter 12/Exotic Weapon Master 3.
Red_Wizard 04-20-07, 05:03 PM	well lets wait in see maybe not moon but there is some thing about him. and do you have source to prove that he is drow not really. zaknafein may have been a worshiper of lady moon and forced to find it when he was it menzo i know i know he has no priest levels for any god but you can worship a god and not take levels and really tell me one source not in novel that says hes 100 drow Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting has him Listed as a pure Drow. Baldurs Gate Handbook called him a Drow Ranger. Drizzts Guide to the Underdark refers to him as a Drow. All of the entire Drizzt Series calls him a Drow. RAS is his creator, and has never suggested that Drizzt (despite any wishing that might have been done) might be anything less than a pureblood Drow. Moon elf blood is purely a fans fantasizing. There is no source anywhere that suggests, confirms, implies or in any other way puts forth that anything besides Pure Drow is In Drizzt. Even if there is Non drow blood in him, it'd have to be so far back as to be nigh on non existent, as all his racial abilities remained intact. Which basically would be like trying to convince me some pasty red head kid was half black because thirteen generations ago his ancestor might have slept with a black dude :P
Zanan 04-20-07, 05:21 PM	Both Zaknafein and Drizzt are pureblood drow. No source has ever written anything else. The only reference you have for something impure is the colour of his eyes and as far as The Drow of the Underdark goes ... TDotUD, p. 5 Most drow have red eyes. Others have green, brown, or black. Various shades of gray, even amber and rose-hued eyes are not unknown. All drow eyes tend to grow redder when they are angry or upset. Yellow eyes usually denote illness, disease, poisoning, or the presence of certain detrimental magics. Blue and purple (and all the tints thereof) are the most unusual eye colors, and usually denote human or surface elven blood somewhere in the drow's ancestry. To imply that either was a worshipper of Lady Moon would be like ... well, imagine you have red hair. Someone happens by and says: "Hey, you look like some Scotsman I know of! He's living near a stone circle in the Highlands. I reckon that your ancestors are from Scotland and were actually priests of the sun!"
Philalexandros 04-20-07, 05:52 PM	Zanan, thanks for Andrzel's name. :)
Zanan 04-21-07, 06:17 AM	Zanan, thanks for Andrzel's name. :) If you want more names, hop to THIS PLACE (http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=420). ;)
Grandmaster_Kane 04-21-07, 08:19 AM	wow zanon that is a cheap pulg lol but not a bad site thou
Khaelieth 04-21-07, 09:46 AM	-Okay, if you consider cold-blooded murdereds good characters... Nothing wrong with that! TBH, there's an academy full of high level drow fighters/assorted prestige classes.
Lord Karsus 04-21-07, 07:37 PM	Nothing wrong with that! TBH, there's an academy full of high level drow fighters/assorted prestige classes. -I was meaning "good" as in the alignment, and not really the..."coolness factor", or what have you. I was basically applying utilitarianism to Zaknafein. -I didn't really make that too clear, though, and I should have. I'll go back and edit that. ;)
Grandmaster_Kane 04-24-07, 09:12 PM	Everybody try to fit this new Zak into there canpaign 25 fighter/ 1 Blade paragon Blade paragon class is found here http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12065087&postcount=1
Philalexandros 04-25-07, 12:10 AM	No offense, but I'm not really sure what the linked PrC has to do with Zaknafein.
Grandmaster_Kane 04-25-07, 02:57 PM	absolutly nothing im just shamlessly plugging my class that i made lol