Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Renvale999 03-07-07, 10:45 PM	Hello everyone, Okay I was wondering if anyone could tell me where ALL the zulkirs are statted out, even if it's 2ed edition? I looked in the download section and couldn't find anything. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Renvale
Old Sage 03-07-07, 11:18 PM	The Zulkirs and several Tharchion and Tharchionesses received stat'd details in the old Spellbound boxed set (2e). The 3e stats for the various Zulkirs were included in the 3e FRCS as part of the 'Red Wizards' section on pg. 278.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-08-07, 12:35 AM	The Zulkirs and several Tharchion and Tharchionesses received stat'd details in the old Spellbound boxed set (2e). The 3e stats for the various Zulkirs were included in the 3e FRCS as part of the 'Red Wizards' section on pg. 278. the 3e is just stat lines, correct?
Renvale999 03-08-07, 06:10 AM	Thank you Old Sage, that's all I needed, you're the best! Thanks again, sorry I was an idiot and missed that lol. Best Regards, Renvale
Old Sage 03-08-07, 06:16 AM	The Zulkir stats are just the basic one-line format, yes. Full-stat'd work-ups have never been published officially... as I recall.
Stigger 03-08-07, 06:25 AM	Thought Aznar Thrul got stated somewhere... could be hallucinating that though.
Empirate 03-08-07, 09:12 AM	Given how stupidly built most NPC stat blocks are, this is probably a blessing. Actually, what more do you need for your campaign than "he/she is the Zulkir of Transmutation"? If you want the PCs to have to fight such a character, we're talking a really epic campaign. In that case, you'll likely want to stat these NPCs yourself, so they don't suck too hard. If, on the other hand, you intend to let a zulkir drop in only once or twice, there's nothing you need to know that goes farther than "is probably one of the best transmuters in Thay". EDIT: Just forgot to rant about the insane wealth-by-level-rules. Time to remedy that: Can you imagine a ZULKIR only having access to such-and-such an amount of magic items???
Renvale999 03-08-07, 09:48 AM	Why does everyone believe fighting a Zulkir has to be a high epic campaign, by there stats, other that Szass Tam, most of them are just little over 20th lvl? And a 18th-19th lvl party could most likely win that battle if they prepare for it properly. Now I'm not saying my guys won't be epic when they face off against ALL OF THEM (not sure if it will be at the same time or seperate encounters) but you really don't need to be epic to take down most of the authority figures in Thay, other than Szass Tam if you fight one at a time.
Isildrae Kyuss 03-08-07, 10:03 AM	I think a Zulkir on their own would indeed be possible for a 18th-19th level party but I think the reason why the Zulkir's are quite so strong is their resources at hand. The numerous guards and apprentices that would ware down a party before they even got close.
Red_Wizard 03-08-07, 11:09 AM	People seem to continuously forget that catching them alone is an extremly unlikly possibility. Secure in his fortifications within Thay, Aznar Thrul has over 9000 troops in his Priador estate alone. Please feel free to walk through 9000 henchmen, but don't expect to be winning anything after theat ;). Not to mention I still don't know how people plan on discovering anything, ever aboutt he Zulkirs, short of walking up and asking them, given the potent combination of the protective scrying field around Thay, and each wizards own individual wards...
Isildrae Kyuss 03-08-07, 11:12 AM	Surely I can clear one room at a time and then rest just outside his inner chambers ready for the last fight? No? why not?
MarkusTay63 03-08-07, 11:17 AM	Just hire a melancholy Drow with two swords and a Kitty... no problem. ;)
runestar 03-08-07, 11:26 AM	Ssass Tzam was statted in ELH, but that stat block was terrible...:weep: Green Giant has some homebrew stats in his NPC thread, IIRC.:)
Stigger 03-08-07, 01:59 PM	Feh, you really want to kill Aznar, start a rumor that he's actually 3/4 Rashemi rather than Mulan... :D
Renvale999 03-08-07, 03:06 PM	Feh, you really want to kill Aznar, start a rumor that he's actually 3/4 Rashemi rather than Mulan... :D LOL, that would be funny. I don't know, I don't think Thay is this impenetrable(can't spell) fortress that everyone makes it out to be. Yes, they have alot of troops and apprentices, but I find the idea of a campaign to rid the world of the Red Wizards once and for all to be very exciting, as a DM and player. I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard, not saying it wouldn't take forever, but the idea of standing there, on Thaymount, looking over the land knowing that a once terrible and vile evil now lays dead at your feet....I find that worth fighting for. But my idea's are lame, so feel free to tell me it would never work lol.
Stigger 03-08-07, 03:15 PM	I think as far as a conventional or wizardly army is concerned it would be as close to impenatrable as something could be... but against a small and highly disciplined/motivated group it would be doable if they really knew what they were doing... something along the unconventional warfare tactics used by modern special forces. But its still a very, very long shot to actually make it happen before you got fireballed into cinders. Unless one of the group was named Xoblob Bond, then you'd have a good chance. :D
Renvale999 03-08-07, 05:01 PM	I think as far as a conventional or wizardly army is concerned it would be as close to impenatrable as something could be... but against a small and highly disciplined/motivated group it would be doable if they really knew what they were doing... something along the unconventional warfare tactics used by modern special forces. But its still a very, very long shot to actually make it happen before you got fireballed into cinders. Unless one of the group was named Xoblob Bond, then you'd have a good chance. :D Well highly disciplined/motivated is pretty much what my group is. My idea was for the PC's to become agents of Aglarond and go into Thay as mercs for hire. Hopefully, with the help of Aglarond, the PC's can make a name for themselves and start working for the lowly and work their way to the mighty. The idea is that they become the most useful "tools" that the Zulkir's have at their disposal. But as they work for them, they begin to play one off against the others, possibly even attack one under the guise of working for another, all the while gathering intelligence for Aglarond, who at this time is building their army up and making alliances(with the PC's help). Basically the PC's are running counter-intelligence against Thay, trying to weaken it as much from within as they can, while Aglarond prepares for war on the outside. Yeah, it might seem sucidal, but my guys told me that wanted a war/intelligence game and I think this could work real well as long as I put the time and effort into it. Any suggestions and constructive criticism, not "it won't work" tell me why it wouldn't work, and not because the Red Wizards are all powerful, because they've failed at more than one invasion attempt.
Red_Wizard 03-08-07, 05:09 PM	I will tell you why it won't work, provided no one beats me to it while i'm away:P. For now though, I must harken away to play DnD, as worthy a cause, if ever there was one:P
Faraer 03-08-07, 05:35 PM	And a 18th-19th lvl party could most likely win that battle if they prepare for it properly.That's higher than 99% of adventuring bands in the Realms.People seem to continuously forget that catching them alone is an extremly unlikly possibility.Yes, for the nth time, high-level conflicts in the Realms take place through labyrinthine months-long intrigue, not one-on-one or four-on-four pitched battles.
GothicDan 03-08-07, 05:45 PM	Yes, for the nth time, high-level conflicts in the Realms take place through labyrinthine months-long intrigue, not one-on-one or four-on-four pitched battles. Man. THAT'S the kind of high-level game I'd love to play in. Faraer, I implore you to run one!
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-09-07, 02:47 AM	Why are we hunting Zulkirs now? They are spreading magic and stuff now. Zulkirs are good for Business!:D :P
runestar 03-09-07, 07:54 AM	And I think Mystra has personally told Simbul to stop hunting red wizards as well...:P
Renvale999 03-09-07, 08:15 AM	And I think Mystra has personally told Simbul to stop hunting red wizards as well...:P What Mystra wants in generally in conflict with what is right. She's defintely going neutral if she told the Simbul that. But I'm not playing that game, Mystra knows that the Red Wizards are ONLY spreading magic items in dream of conquest, not for the sake of magic. I doubt Mystra would support this.
The_Shaman 03-09-07, 09:06 AM	It may be. Mystra is, after all, the goddess of magic, and she would have to preserve magic first, worry about her alignment later. Now, if the Reds were to go into Shadow Magic, Mystra would have some serious issues. Then again, good =/= smiting evil. If the Symbul's crusade against red wizards has led to a lot of deaths - and afaik the Symbul is quite keen on the overkill - then telling her to tone down need not be an evil act. Making peace with a group, even if it's evil, can save a lot of lives and help a lot of people not get turned into small marsupials, statues, or ash. Anyway, I heard there's a new book where Szass Tam makes a bid for ascendancy. I wonder how that would play out... Things may change a good deal if he loses out, and definitely will change if he wins.
Renvale999 03-09-07, 03:01 PM	It may be. Mystra is, after all, the goddess of magic, and she would have to preserve magic first, worry about her alignment later. Now, if the Reds were to go into Shadow Magic, Mystra would have some serious issues. Then again, good =/= smiting evil. If the Symbul's crusade against red wizards has led to a lot of deaths - and afaik the Symbul is quite keen on the overkill - then telling her to tone down need not be an evil act. Making peace with a group, even if it's evil, can save a lot of lives and help a lot of people not get turned into small marsupials, statues, or ash. Anyway, I heard there's a new book where Szass Tam makes a bid for ascendancy. I wonder how that would play out... Things may change a good deal if he loses out, and definitely will change if he wins. Well, someone above mentioned something basically saying that the Simbul was told not to kill Red Wizards, for spreading magic, which I think is totally bogus, cause they're not doing it for the sake of magic, they're doing it for dreams of conquest. If Mystra is supporting this by canon, then again I'm going to deviate from Canon cause that's total BS.
GothicDan 03-09-07, 03:28 PM	Mystra did indeed tell the Simbul to 'calm down' on that, and prevented her from casting a spell that would have literally blown up all of Thay.
Stigger 03-09-07, 05:08 PM	I more came away with the impression that Mystra's letting them come up with new innovations in magical item creation that has nothing to do with their motives... yet another case of her not favoring casters of good alignment...
GothicDan 03-09-07, 05:10 PM	The statement I made referred to events specifically given in a novel... Silverfall, maybe. It wasn't one I've read myself.
Stigger 03-09-07, 05:11 PM	Think it may have been Elminster's Daughter actually... I seem to recall a conversation like that on top of a mountain peak in the Storm Horns maybe.
Entreri1000 03-09-07, 06:56 PM	Aside from Szass Tam, all the other Zulkiers are push overs. I am sure that the Simbul could defeat them all at once, if Tam was not there. The Simbul minus Chosen powers would defeat Tam, with them quite easily. She was a 32th level sorcerer.
GothicDan 03-09-07, 06:58 PM	No, no she's not. She's a 20th level Sorcerer, 10th level Wizard, 3rd level Archmage. I'd stat her as a pure Wizard; or, failing that, with levels in Ultimate Magus.
Faraer 03-09-07, 07:00 PM	Mystra knows that the Red Wizards are ONLY spreading magic items in dream of conquest, not for the sake of magic. I doubt Mystra would support this.Mystra is concerned with magic, and what people do with magic, not why.Aside from Szass Tam, all the other Zulkiers are push overs. I am sure that the Simbul could defeat them all at once, if Tam was not there. The Simbul minus Chosen powers would defeat Tam, with them quite easily. She was a 32th level sorcerer.Spell battles aren't nearly so predictable as that, and their outcome is based on knowledge, preparation, circumstance and strategy, not just how many spells you can cast.
Red_Wizard 03-09-07, 08:54 PM	Yes, for the nth time, high-level conflicts in the Realms take place through labyrinthine months-long intrigue, not one-on-one or four-on-four pitched battles. SHOULD take place. Generally don't. Man. THAT'S the kind of high-level game I'd love to play in. Faraer, I implore you to run one! This is something i'm gearing up to however. Personally, this is my idea of a much preferable High level campaign. Ultimate goal is good story building, not gaining epic, god-like status. IMO. To the point on Mystra Preventing the Simbul from killing Red Wizards, it is only in matters where she blindly flies off, and goes on an un-instigated killing spree of her neighbors. Should she be wronged, she is well within her rights to obliterate the offenders. But ONLY the offenders. Elminster, is charged with the defense of Thay from the Simbul, should she decided to ignore Mystra (Something she is most likly not doing more for this reason, than truly wishing to obey the lady of mysteries). Mystras protective ban is in place because of the ammount of magic items, and spells created within the country. It is a major boon to the weave, and spreading of magic, something she is all about. Amusing ofcourse though, when considering Mystra and Azuth are frowned heavily upon in Thay, as most don't look kindly upon the spreading of magical secrets (Much as Hulruaa does), and no temple is allowed to stand for them, including in the city of Bezantur, which is known for being the city for nearly every religion :P. To the last remark, both Faraer and GD are correct, both in her actual levels (which are silly in a fashion....I think Ultimate Magus is definatly a build for her) and with stats not deciding a battle. This being said, how does one defend against a wizard who every day can jack up his Caster level to 40th? ;) Aside from Szass Tam, all the other Zulkiers are push overs. I am sure that the Simbul could defeat them all at once, if Tam was not there. You must play to many high level characters. I don't general think of Level 22+ being pushovers...
Stigger 03-10-07, 12:23 AM	22nd level? Weenies the lot... get to 35th and they start being worth something.... or was that years... feh, I forget offhand. Either way it goes, if they weren't gimpy pushovers there'd be a Thayvian flag flying over Skuld as we speak... Though if I recall correctly Mystra had a secretive 'underground' sort of temple in Bezentur, though not a legal one as I recall.
Krash 03-10-07, 08:37 AM	Well, someone above mentioned something basically saying that the Simbul was told not to kill Red Wizards, for spreading magic, which I think is totally bogus, cause they're not doing it for the sake of magic, they're doing it for dreams of conquest. If Mystra is supporting this by canon, then again I'm going to deviate from Canon cause that's total BS. Read "Elminster's Daughter". -- George Krashos
Krash 03-10-07, 08:38 AM	Aside from Szass Tam, all the other Zulkiers are push overs. I am sure that the Simbul could defeat them all at once, if Tam was not there. The Simbul minus Chosen powers would defeat Tam, with them quite easily. She was a 32th level sorcerer. The zulkirs are not necessarily the most powerful Red Wizards in Thay. -- George Krashos
Red_Wizard 03-10-07, 09:56 AM	Indeed. Most have retired into a quieter life, that involves working the feild more effectivly from behind he scenes. The prime example being Ythazz Buvaar. That being said, over at Candlekeep (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7613) he has only been statted as CL 27, CR 35, to which you krash mentioned you saw no issue with. So perhaps the ancient one, isn't as effective at increasing his power base as Szass Tam. Despite being there to summon Eltabb :P.
GothicDan 03-10-07, 11:26 AM	I'd personally love to hear just a little more about Ythazz Buvar... But I'd probably have statted him at around the Simbul's level of power.
MarkusTay63 03-11-07, 12:44 PM	I remember when 18th level was god-like. :( Every time I hear about NPCs and Characters with levels over thirty my stomach starts to churn. or maybe it's just that burrito I ate at 5AM........ I wish I could play in someone else's game for a change, I haven't done that in 15 years. Maybe I'm missing something here... :blink:
Red_Wizard 03-11-07, 12:59 PM	I remember when 18th level was god-like. :( Every time I hear about NPCs and Characters with levels over thirty my stomach starts to churn. or maybe it's just that burrito I ate at 5AM........ I wish I could play in someone else's game for a change, I haven't done that in 15 years. Maybe I'm missing something here... :blink: I know. My Red Wizard Character is level 18, and He was born in 1083. It's roughly 1373 for our campaign timeline, and I am perfectly happy staying at this level.. I don't get the epic Craze. NPC's like El, and Simbul...sure, but not for me :rolleyes:
GothicDan 03-11-07, 01:42 PM	Heh. The highest level I've ever been in an actual real life campaign was 10th. And we started out at 10th. Before that, it was 6th. Mmm, fun.
Stigger 03-12-07, 01:19 AM	Hit 42nd wizardly type once with 3.x but it was a near nightly game that went on for... 2 or 3 years. Was strangely fun at those god-like levels for me.
ShadezofDis 03-12-07, 12:29 PM	Given the time, resources and ability*, I think you could put a dent into the Red Wizards but that's not really a great idea. Thay is the buffer between the Realms and Mulhorand. If you knock Thay down then you'll just encourage those crazy Mulhorandi to take Thay back and then you'll have a whole different can o' worms on your hands. Though Mulhorand is a little busy right at the moment so it'd probably take a bit of time for them to turn towards Thay (but that said, it's going to take a good long time to knock Thay down a bit) *Note: Time, resources and ability would have to be VERY hefty.
Renvale999 03-12-07, 01:09 PM	Given the time, resources and ability*, I think you could put a dent into the Red Wizards but that's not really a great idea. Thay is the buffer between the Realms and Mulhorand. If you knock Thay down then you'll just encourage those crazy Mulhorandi to take Thay back and then you'll have a whole different can o' worms on your hands. Though Mulhorand is a little busy right at the moment so it'd probably take a bit of time for them to turn towards Thay (but that said, it's going to take a good long time to knock Thay down a bit) *Note: Time, resources and ability would have to be VERY hefty. Well said and I agree. Although I don't think Mulhorand really has the armies to hold Thay for long, if it fell. It would be unfamiliar terrian(for the new guys, I know they used to hold it in the old days). Plus I think they're gonna have their hands full for a while now with Unther and now Chessenta firmly in the grasp of Tiamat.
Empirate 03-14-07, 12:48 PM	It's a nice thing to run a campaign in which the enemy is known, titanic, nearly impossible to bring down. But most campaigns of this sort are just as fun if you never come close to achieving your goal. Every little victory has your family at home sleep another night in safety, isn't that worth something? OK, back to topic, as this is supposed to be a rather epic (if not in the 20th+ level sense) campaign. I think you might well turn one zulkir against another, it might even be possible to turn them into two rival factions. But they're wizards. Ambition this or that, in the end they all have intelligence scores of 20+. They'll find out something's wrong. They'll not let it happen. Even if some zulkirs are defeated, somebody else will just step in and take their place. What you'd really need to give the Reds a hard time would be a general revolt, not only of the slaves, but of the whole population. This, combined with an invasion by Aglarond, Rashemen, Thesk AND Mulhorand, if possible, might set an end to the whole Red Wizard business. Anything less than this they'll probably be able to stop from happening or even fight off outright. Remember that Szass Tam alone has 5,000 Dread Warrior troops at his disposal - that is 5,000 level 4+ undead that are not mindless. Add to that more undead troops of different power levels. That is the PERSONAL, not food-dependent army of one zulkir. There's certain to be a lot of human soldiers, as well as constructs, elementals, outsiders, elite mercenaries, and finally wizards at the beck and call of old Tam. Granted, he's the most powerful zulkir, but the others won't be too far from this level of man-, undead-, construct-, etcpower. Never forget a Zulkir probably makes full use of circle magic every single day, given the unstable back-stabbing Red Wizard culture. That makes for some hefty spellcasting options. Also, he will have his minions create items and contingency magic aplenty. Some may employ minor mythal-like effects to secure their stronghold, forbidding the use of magic not sanctioned by the zulkir. Good luck taking one on in their stronghold, even for extremely high-level parties.
Renvale999 03-14-07, 01:06 PM	It's a nice thing to run a campaign in which the enemy is known, titanic, nearly impossible to bring down. But most campaigns of this sort are just as fun if you never come close to achieving your goal. Every little victory has your family at home sleep another night in safety, isn't that worth something? OK, back to topic, as this is supposed to be a rather epic (if not in the 20th+ level sense) campaign. I think you might well turn one zulkir against another, it might even be possible to turn them into two rival factions. But they're wizards. Ambition this or that, in the end they all have intelligence scores of 20+. They'll find out something's wrong. They'll not let it happen. Even if some zulkirs are defeated, somebody else will just step in and take their place. What you'd really need to give the Reds a hard time would be a general revolt, not only of the slaves, but of the whole population. This, combined with an invasion by Aglarond, Rashemen, Thesk AND Mulhorand, if possible, might set an end to the whole Red Wizard business. Anything less than this they'll probably be able to stop from happening or even fight off outright. Remember that Szass Tam alone has 5,000 Dread Warrior troops at his disposal - that is 5,000 level 4+ undead that are not mindless. Add to that more undead troops of different power levels. That is the PERSONAL, not food-dependent army of one zulkir. There's certain to be a lot of human soldiers, as well as constructs, elementals, outsiders, elite mercenaries, and finally wizards at the beck and call of old Tam. Granted, he's the most powerful zulkir, but the others won't be too far from this level of man-, undead-, construct-, etcpower. Never forget a Zulkir probably makes full use of circle magic every single day, given the unstable back-stabbing Red Wizard culture. That makes for some hefty spellcasting options. Also, he will have his minions create items and contingency magic aplenty. Some may employ minor mythal-like effects to secure their stronghold, forbidding the use of magic not sanctioned by the zulkir. Good luck taking one on in their stronghold, even for extremely high-level parties. All good points and to be honest if you play your villians smart then you're basically screwed in Thay. But every single Zulkir, Tharchion or any other villian for that matter should have a fatal flaw. For alot of them, I believe it to be over confidence. They've been nice and snug in their positions of power for a very long time and the very thought of adventurer's knocking down their doors probably has never reached some of their minds...but for me that's the whole point. The zulkir(according to the Unapproachable east) cannot scry within their own country. That means that adventurer's have a good chance of moving about undetected. I know their are thousands of troops running around and that many patrols, but if your party is specifically built for those kind of special forces type missions, they you may have a chance. Now I'm not saying any country could take on Thay in an army to army campaign, but if you cut off the head of a snake, it dies. If you managed to kill the Zulkirs and many of those who would succeed them, the in fighting would tear Thay apart.
Entreri1000 03-14-07, 06:59 PM	"Spell battles aren't nearly so predictable as that, and their outcome is based on knowledge, preparation, circumstance and strategy, not just how many spells you can cast." Tam is toast if he ever dared to face the Simbul. Toasted lich. As I was saying, she was 32 level sorcerer, now they weakened her like Larloch (who should be the most powerful lich in the world). Besides the Simbul, the other sisters are weaklings. Just like Tam vs the other Zulkirs.
ShadezofDis 03-15-07, 10:25 AM	"Spell battles aren't nearly so predictable as that, and their outcome is based on knowledge, preparation, circumstance and strategy, not just how many spells you can cast." Tam is toast if he ever dared to face the Simbul. Toasted lich. As I was saying, she was 32 level sorcerer, now they weakened her like Larloch (who should be the most powerful lich in the world). Besides the Simbul, the other sisters are weaklings. Just like Tam vs the other Zulkirs. The Simbul wins a spell battle because she's one of the best spell battlers in the Realms. She's probably not nearly the enchanter (ie making items), diviner, alterer, etc that she is a spell battler (though divination could be arguable since she's often keeping an eye out for thayvian{sp?} spies). It's about 90% likely that if Tam tried a spell battle with the Simbul he would indeed be toast (well, his body anyhow and the Simbul probably knows more than a few tricks to annoying/destroy a liches spirit/track the spirit to the phylactery or whatever, though I'm pretty sure if she can do any of these things with the lich's spirit after the lich's body is destroyed then Tam may have stumbled upon them as well and have researched countermeasures) Phew, anyhow, there is a myriad of ways to defeat someone, a spell battle is really just the "I'm gonna take my two hander and hit you!" solution to a problem.
Red_Wizard 03-15-07, 10:44 AM	Tam is toast if he ever dared to face the Simbul. Toasted lich. I can sit here, and with both of their stat blocks, both from 2nd, and 3rd edition, come up with any number of ways in a fair fight, EITHER one could win. It's never as simple, as black and white. As I was saying, she was 32 level sorcerer, now they weakened her like Larloch (who should be the most powerful lich in the world). Everyone has been over this, and ultimatly, until one or the other battles one or the other in a novel, NOONE knows who will win, or what power anyone should be. The stats are guidlines, for a DM to work with, that a player should NEVER see. Unfortunatly they do, and then get grandois ideas in their heads about strength, power, and where their players stand in the grand scheme of things. Besides the Simbul, the other sisters are weaklings. Just like Tam vs the other Zulkirs. I wish I was there the day, that suddenly 20+ became commonly thought of as weak, cause i'd love to punch the person in the head who had the idea, to prevent it's polution from ever seaping this far into the everyday conversation.
ShadezofDis 03-15-07, 11:20 AM	I wish I was there the day, that suddenly 20+ became commonly thought as weak, cause i'd love to punch the person in the head who had the idea, to prevent it's polution from ever seaping this far into the everyday conversation. Too late man, way too late. Don't worry though, there are still the "15th level == archmage" folks out there ;D
Empirate 03-15-07, 01:20 PM	Technically, you can take up the Archmage PrC by 14th level... :gah: Don't hurt me for this!
Stigger 03-15-07, 06:45 PM	Maybe weak = poor official build, in which case there's a definite point there. A lot of NPC's got seriously nerfed in the official builds. :(
ShadezofDis 03-16-07, 08:17 AM	Maybe weak = poor official build, in which case there's a definite point there. A lot of NPC's got seriously nerfed in the official builds. :( I haven't read thier stats much at all but if their stats reflect their story then I say "nerf away" Personally, I'd like to see the "iconic" characters levels reduced to the high end being 25 or so and the low end being 10 or so, this whole glut of levels has munchkined the game far too much for my tastes (which is why I play it different at home! yay! {note: that's for the first person to throw out the "it's YOUR game, you can play it how YOU like", Yes, thank you, I know, I've known for a good decade now}) But that's all just opinion, if more people are happy with uber levels and taking on Zulkirs directly then more power to them (I just wish I could get all the good story we used to get, I can ignore stat blocks but I can't ignore something that's missing) Oh, sorry, I need to wake up more before posting, otherwise I get all scatter brained. . . not that that's going to stop me from hitting "submit" ;D
Stigger 03-16-07, 08:22 AM	Don't think it's so much to reflect their story so much as to limit the number of sourcebooks used. From what I've seen, they pretty much just use the PHB, DMG, FRCS, and the ELH where applicable, and that was about it, at least from what I recall of them.
ShadezofDis 03-16-07, 09:25 AM	Don't think it's so much to reflect their story so much as to limit the number of sourcebooks used. From what I've seen, they pretty much just use the PHB, DMG, FRCS, and the ELH where applicable, and that was about it, at least from what I recall of them. Fair enough, though to be honest I prefer that sort of method (as I'm very anti-rifting D&D {ie. source books are more about feats, prcs, classes, etc than about the actual region or organizations}) but that's just my opinion :D I'm gonna take a look at them a bit later and then come back with an actually valid opinion on their stats blocks though ;D
Stigger 03-16-07, 03:48 PM	Look at Cadderly's and just try coming up with a even halfway logical explanation for that one... :P ;)
ShadezofDis 03-17-07, 01:53 PM	Look at Cadderly's and just try coming up with a even halfway logical explanation for that one... :P ;) Well, I'd have to read the Cleric Quintent and see what RAS had him do in that. But so far as I know Cadderly from . . . oh, whatever Drizzt books he's in, the only things that really don't make sense is; The low Heal skill The lack of Concentration (though I haven't seen him use it, but I'm sure the Cleric Quintent has instances of him "making a Concentration check") The lack of even a tiny amount of Knowledge (The Planes, or The Abyss) because he has at the very least summoned an Imp, dunno about anything else he's done. Other than that, is he weak compaired to what the CO board could do w/ a 20th level Chosen of Deneir? Hell yeah, but the CO boards make me vomit into my mouth a little :D (but that's just my opinion, if you enjoy it then rock on out with it) But does he fit with what I know of Cadderly, except for the points above yes. Granted I don't know a ton about Cadderly :) But that is just one example, I'll take a look at some more when I've got some time :)
Red_Wizard 03-20-07, 03:43 PM	Man, for someone who only just joined, and doesn't know anything about anyone on here, thats one bold statement to come in on. I'll chalk it up to simple immaturity, and ignorance, but I'd advise avoiding derogatory remarks like that in the future. And if you want to say something critical, then make good and sure it has some basis in fact, and not just go flapping your gums like you just did, wasting space, and saying nothing. :nonono:
ShadezofDis 03-20-07, 03:50 PM	Man, for someone who only just joined, and doesn't know anything about anyone on here, thats one bold statement to come in on. I'll chalk it up to simple immaturity, and ignorance, but I'd advise avoiding derogatory remarks like that in the future. And if you want to say something critical, then make good and sure it has some basis in fact, and not just go flapping your gums like you just did, wasting space, and saying nothing. :nonono: Seconded. Further, working around board filters is a no no on (just about) every board on the net.
Stigger 03-21-07, 01:27 AM	Did I miss something? I have no idea what you're referring to...
ShadezofDis 03-21-07, 08:01 AM	Did I miss something? I have no idea what you're referring to... Yes, yes you did. Fortunately it was UTTERLY forgettable :)
Stigger 03-21-07, 08:50 AM	Suppose so... going back to be confuzzled now... I'm blaming the pain killers mostly... mostly.
Red_Wizard 03-21-07, 11:21 AM	Suppose so... going back to be confuzzled now... I'm blaming the pain killers mostly... mostly. Inappropriate post by a new member. Thankfully the Wizos removed it.
Stigger 03-22-07, 03:15 AM	Well done them then... so, yeah, I'm in favor of Thay's weather controlling magics completely containing the apocalyptic eruption of a volcano caused by Silvanus, Chauntea, Mielikki, and Lurue to 'repay' them for the whole black unicorn project, just as Tam's about to take his victory lap...
ShadezofDis 03-22-07, 10:07 AM	Well done them then... so, yeah, I'm in favor of Thay's weather controlling magics completely containing the apocalyptic eruption of a volcano caused by Silvanus, Chauntea, Mielikki, and Lurue to 'repay' them for the whole black unicorn project, just as Tam's about to take his victory lap... They'd sure have to get Talos to warm up to them. ...
Stigger 03-22-07, 12:48 PM	Nah, why would he complain about massive destruction? Just split the scared senseless mortals scrambling to venerate the closest nature deity out of fear and everyone's happy. :D
The_Shaman 03-22-07, 09:34 PM	Well done them then... so, yeah, I'm in favor of Thay's weather controlling magics completely containing the apocalyptic eruption of a volcano caused by Silvanus, Chauntea, Mielikki, and Lurue to 'repay' them for the whole black unicorn project, just as Tam's about to take his victory lap... Hmm, depends where the volcano is. I think Thaymount could use a little resemblance to Mount Doom ;) .
Red_Wizard 03-22-07, 10:36 PM	Hmm, depends where the volcano is. I think Thaymount could use a little resemblance to Mount Doom ;) . But where will I rule from :weep:
Stigger 03-23-07, 12:29 AM	Just be out of the Country and come back in to take control of the vast empty wastelands... at least then there wouldn't be anyone around to contest your rule. At least until the Mulhorandi army showed up to claim some new real estate. :D
Boda 03-23-07, 03:02 PM	Wouldnt working for the zulkirs compromise your alignment? Its not like they gonna ask you to heal unicorns and take care of babies!? Typical wizard mindframe: there are more way to get information and locate people that scrying. As for clearing the zulkirs strongholds, one room at a time, it work,..., on computer games.Why would they wait you to rest? Personnally, i doubt the simbul could take on more than one or two zulkirs at a time (except Tam). How many spells can she cast in a turn?One?Two?Three?wouldnt several wizards cast more? And if half of then would be countering her, and the other half attacking? So she know how to destroy or deal permenantly with a lich on the spot?How?Or thats only wishful thinking?
The_Shaman 03-25-07, 08:06 AM	But where will I rule from :weep: I think you might want to consider the Haalruan school of architecture. It does a good job of pointing that for domiciles, contact with the ground is purely optional.