597 Bard builds? [Archive] - Wizards Community

597 Bard builds? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rerednaw
04-10-07, 12:48 PM I have a bard who hit level 2 just prior to 597. Now I'm debating on starting over. He was going to tank but with Alter Self being gone his cardboard AC got even thinner. So he's looking at retraining 2 feats which were melee oriented plus a first level spell. That's level 5 before he's "fixed" so the first question would be is it worth the effort?

If I start over I had two other bard build choices:

Bardx, plain vanilla bard.
or Bard10/Sublime5

What feat choices would you go with:

Bard x: to complement straight buffing and support.
Bard10/Sublime5: support plus some metamagic to get more bang out of metamagic song.

Suggestions welcome.
Timlagor
04-10-07, 12:51 PM With Sublime Chord it's probably worth dropping a level or two into something like Marshal since you'll get the higher level spells anyway.
Rerednaw
04-10-07, 01:05 PM With Sublime Chord it's probably worth dropping a level or two into something like Marshal since you'll get the higher level spells anyway.

What feats would you go for a bard9/marsh1/schord5?
Nutation
04-10-07, 01:41 PM If you still want to tank, Mirror Image is a reasonable substitute for Alter Self. Shorter duration, more effective.

If you post your build, we can offer other suggestions as well. Bards can certainly work in melee.
UMiskatonic
04-10-07, 02:37 PM Bard 1/Fighter 4/Warchanter 10 is a great fighting bard.

You can certainly be a melee bard. However you have to plan for it. You can NOT just take any bard into melee, that's a different thing.

Forgive me if the numbers are off, I'm at work...
JamesMaissen
04-10-07, 03:32 PM I have a bard who hit level 2 just prior to 597. Now I'm debating on starting over. He was going to tank but with Alter Self being gone his cardboard AC got even thinner. So he's looking at retraining 2 feats which were melee oriented plus a first level spell. That's level 5 before he's "fixed" so the first question would be is it worth the effort?

Well it's good to take stock of your position earlier rather than later. One of two things will happen: 1> You will decide it's better to start over, or 2> You are happy with what you can become. So either you will lose out on just 3-4 mods worth of investment or you will be content with what you have, neither of which is that bad a thing.

With any character you need to get past the flash and the names to ask yourself what they will be accomplishing and what you want them to be able to accomplish. That you are going to be a X doesn't mean awhole lot if X doesn't give you much besides the cool name, X. Heck just call yourself an X and pick something that gives you what you want to do.

If you want a melee oriented bard then the easiest route is towards Warchanter. A few people have had success with a melee bard on their own, but that takes alot more work to go uphill that way. Decisions there are based on class breakdown going into it as well as understanding how flexible to party needs you should desire to be.

On the otherhand, if you want a casting focused Bard then Sublime Cord can work well if you don't fall into the trap that other mixed class PrCs tend to do. If you think of it still as a Bard then you will be fine, but if you confuse it with a sorcerer then you will have problems. You simply don't have the spell slots to be a sorcerer even if you are taking from their spells known.

Assuming that you are going with a Sublime Cord then you need to figure out skills and how you will manage them as a good number will be spoken for already. Then you need to decide how much you wish to deviate from Bard10 going into it. A level of Marshal works very well as a trade off for 4th level spells from the bard casting slots. More than that and you loose inspire greatness which is a wonderful ability. Virtuoso is a nice hedge on that, but really doesn't give you much in the LG framework of levels here.

But that boils down to what roles you wish to fill and actions you want to be taking and enabling.

Towards feats I would look at Disguise Spell as I think it's a wonderful feat. Also Melodic Casting is nice, as are some of the Bard Music feats.

-James
paigeoliver
04-10-07, 04:40 PM You can probably salvage a bard with combat feats by moving into marshall and fighter (or Paladin). That way you won't have to retrain anything at all.

Forget about your bard spells, get some full plate, take advantage of your high charisma and keep on keeping on. I have seen a lot of very effective marshall/bards who never cast any spells at all.
frupton
04-10-07, 11:46 PM Feat suggestions for Bard10/SubChord5:

1) Improved Initiative. Going first rocks. Solid for any caster, but particularly when you're the one inspiring courage or casting haste. Your fighters will not want to delay just so you can buff them.

2) Melodic Casting. Frees up skill points so you can meet the extensive skill prereqs for Sublime Chord more easily. Particularly important if you are headed for SubChord but didn't give yourself a 14 Int. Casting while performing is an added bonus.

3) Obscure Lore. I may be peculiar in my fondness for this, but I like being able to routinely crank out high knowledge checks. A +4 to bardic knowledge tends to get you one additional piece of info per knowledge check. Learning that key fact about an offbeat monster's attacks or defenses can be the difference between life and death.

4) Spell Penetration is a good choice at level 12, as it will combine with SubChord's Song of Arcane Power to give you +6 to caster level to overcome SR.

5) Crafting feats are always solid, particularly Wondrous Items or Arms & Armor.

6) For additional defensive potential, you could consider Danger Sense, Force of Personality, Improved Toughness, or Dive for Cover, depending on your taste.

A level of Marshal and/or a level or two of Virtuoso along the way are certainly worth considering. Taking a level of Marshal to motivate your own Charisma may be considered cheesy, however. If you're going to take a Marshal dip, I'd suggest a combat-use aura such as Master of Tactics/Art of War/Motivate Dex, and earn the respect of your table during combat.
frupton
04-10-07, 11:46 PM You can probably salvage a bard with combat feats by moving into marshall and fighter (or Paladin). That way you won't have to retrain anything at all.

Forget about your bard spells, get some full plate, take advantage of your high charisma and keep on keeping on.

Is that the story of how you became a Paladin? :D
Morgen
04-11-07, 12:35 AM So how about a Bard 6/Lyric Thumaturge 4/Sublime Cord 6?

That might lead into some interesting situations, no? Just a thought since it all ends up the same at the end, and it gives you a little bit more of an arcane twist.

Though...at that point...you could just make a sorcerer... No bonus caster levels though.
frupton
04-11-07, 02:55 AM So how about a Bard 6/Lyric Thumaturge 4/Sublime Chord 6?

That might lead into some interesting situations, no? Just a thought since it all ends up the same at the end, and it gives you a little bit more of an arcane twist.

Though...at that point...you could just make a sorcerer... No bonus caster levels though.

I believe you may encounter table variation regarding your Sublime Chord caster level if you do this. As I read it, Sublime Chord states that your caster level is determined by adding your Sublime Chord level to "your level in another arcane spellcasting class."

Technically that is Bard 6 (or LT 4) in the above build, so your Sublime Chord caster level would not get to count your LT levels. If it had said that you add your Sublime Chord level to your caster level of another arcane spellcasing class, then you'd be OK, becuase LT levels add to your bard caster level.

You can perhaps make a good argument that the latter is the intent, and that you should get full caster level for Sublime Chord in the Bard/LT/SubChord build, but your table DM may or may not agree.
Mommy was an Orc
04-11-07, 08:38 AM An interesting feat is Sound of Silence from Complete Scoundrel - if you've got Harmonize going, you can Deafen spellcasters with the DC based on your Perform check as a move action. For my Bard, that's going to be one of his 9th level feats(retraining Daunting Presence into Melodic Casting)
kjenks
04-11-07, 04:19 PM Forget about your bard spells, get some full plate, take advantage of your high charisma and keep on keeping on. I have seen a lot of very effective marshall/bards who never cast any spells at all.

I analyzed this a while back for a melee bard character I was planning.

There are quite a few Open bard spells which can be cast in fullplate with no arcane spell failure:

1x 0-LEVEL BARD SPELLS (CANTRIPS)
Flare: Dazzles one creature (-1 on attack rolls).

8x 1ST-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
Critical Strike: Swift. For 1 round you gain +1d6 damage, doubled threat range, and +4 on attack rolls to confirm critical threats on flanked or denied-Dex foes. SpC

Expeditious Retreat, Swift: Your speed increases by 30 ft. for 1 round. SpC

Feather Fall: Objects or creatures fall slowly.

Focusing Chant: Swift. Gain +1 on attack rolls, skill checks and ability checks. SpC

Invisibility, Swift: Invisibility lasts 1 round. SpC

Locate City: Find nearest city. RD

Master’s Touch: Swift. You gain proficiency in a weapon or shield touched for 1 min./level. SpC

Ventriloquism: Throws voice for 1 min./level.

8x 2ND-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
Bladeweave: Swift. Your melee attack dazes your opponent. SpC

Blindness/Deafness: Makes subject blind or deaf.

Blur: Attacks miss subject 20% of the time.

Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.

Fly, Swift: You fly for 1 round. SpC

Sonic Weapon: Weapon touched deals +1d6 sonic damage with each hit. SpC

Suggestion: Compels subject to follow stated course of action.

Tongues: Speak any language.

2x 3RD-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
Displacement: Attacks miss subject 50%.

Geas, Lesser: Commands subject of 7 HD or less.

2x 4TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
Dimension Door: Teleports you short distance.

Shout: Deafens all within cone and deals 5d6 sonic damage.

2x 5TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
Suggestion, Mass: As suggestion, plus one subject/level.

Wail of Doom: Deals 1d4 damage/level in 30-ft. cone, plus targets panicked or shaken. SpC

3x 6TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
Charm Monster, Mass: As charm monster, but all within 30 ft.

Otto's Irresistible Dance: Forces subject to dance.

Shout, Greater: Devastating yell deals 10d6 sonic damage; stuns creatures, damages objects.

So that's...

1x 0-LEVEL BARD SPELLS (CANTRIPS)
8x 1ST-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
8x 2ND-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
2x 3RD-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
2x 4TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
2x 5TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
3x 6TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS

In fact, there are so many of these spells that a bard could select most of his spells (other than cantrips) from this list of Open bard spells that have no somatic component.

An armored bard could choose long-duration or non-combat spells for those few spells he'd have to take from the list of spells that do have a somatic component.

At level 15, a bard can know...

Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
15th 6 4 4 4 4 3 —

Subtracting those numbers, there are seven spells above cantrip level (2x 2nd, 2x 3rd, 2x 4th, 1x5th) that the armored 15th bard would have to select that do have a somatic component.

Here are some of those non-combat or long-duration spells:

1ST-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
Cure Light Wounds: Cures 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).
Detect Secret Doors: Reveals hidden doors within 60 ft.
Friendly Face: Gain +5 bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks. RD
Healthful Rest: Subjects heal at twice the normal rate. SpC
Magic Mouth: Speaks once when triggered. Costs 10 gp.
Nystul’s Magic Aura: Alters object’s magic aura.
Obscure Object: Masks object against scrying.
Scholar’s Touch: Read books in seconds. RD
Undetectable Alignment: Conceals alignment for 24 hours.
Unseen Servant: Invisible force obeys your commands.

2ND-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
Animal Messenger: Sends a Tiny animal to a specific place.
Cure Moderate Wounds: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10).
Locate Object: Senses direction toward object (specific or type).
Misdirection: Misleads divinations for one creature or object.
Whispering Wind: Sends a short message 1 mile/level.

3RD-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
Glibness: You gain +30 bonus on Bluff checks, and your lies can escape magical discernment.
Illusory Script: Only intended reader can decipher. Costs 50 gp.
Leomund’s Tiny Hut: Creates shelter for ten creatures.
Listening Coin: Allows remote eavesdropping. SpC
Phantom Steed: Magic horse appears for 1 hour/level.
Remove Curse: Frees object or person from curse.
Scrying: Spies on subject from a distance.
Secret Page: Changes one page to hide its real content.
Sepia Snake Sigil: Creates text symbol that immobilizes reader. Costs 500 gp.
Speak with Animals: You can communicate with animals.
Speechlink: You and the target can verbally communicate at any distance. SpC

4TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
Break Enchantment: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification.
Detect Scrying: Alerts you of magical eavesdropping.
Hallucinatory Terrain: Makes one type of terrain appear like another (field into forest, or the like).
Legend Lore: Lets you learn tales about a person, place, or thing. Costs 250 gp.
Leomund's Secure Shelter: Creates sturdy cottage.
Locate Creature: Indicates direction to familiar creature.
Zone of Silence: Keeps eavesdroppers from overhearing conversations.

5TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS
Dream: Sends message to anyone sleeping.
False Vision: Fools scrying with an illusion. Costs 250 gp.
Hidden Lodge: Creates a camouflaged Secure Shelter. SpC
Mirage Arcana: As hallucinatory terrain, plus structures.
Nightmare: Sends vision dealing 1d10 damage, fatigue.
Seeming: Changes appearance of one person per two levels.

Taken together, that's a pretty good spell list. That gives the armored bard way more spells to select from than a Hunter of the Dead or a Knight of the Chalice, for example.
mlund
04-11-07, 05:03 PM I recommend avoiding the Melee focus with your d6 Hit Die. If you're going into Sublime Chord it means you are going to be dropping Arcane Death and Battle Control spells like nobodies business. There is a good argument for going with Ranged Weapons and later Ranged Touch spells (Orbs) when you hit Sublime Chord. In that case you might consider Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot as go-to feats early on.

There is another perfectly reasonable path to take though, especially flavored for CY 597 and the changes to the LGCS it ushered in. Hooray for eliminating the 3rd Level barrier!

Human - Lucky Start (Complete Scoundrel)
Bard 1 - Extra Music (Complete Adventurer), Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1, Countersong
Bard 2 -
Bard 3 - Unbelievable Luck (Complete Scoundrel), Inspire Competence
Bard 4 -
Bard 5 -
Bard 6 - Lyric Spell, Suggestion
Bard 7 -
Bard 8 - Inspire Courage +2
Fortune's Friend 1 - Tempting Fate
Fortune's Friend 2 - Survivor's Luck
Sublime Chord 1 - 5

I've got a bard build right now at S10 D14 C14 I10 W10 C16 that's going to try this progression.

- Marty Lund
Rerednaw
04-13-07, 12:44 PM I recommend avoiding the Melee focus with your d6 Hit Die. If you're going into Sublime Chord it means you are going to be dropping Arcane Death and Battle Control spells like nobodies business. There is a good argument for going with Ranged Weapons and later Ranged Touch spells (Orbs) when you hit Sublime Chord. In that case you might consider Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot as go-to feats early on.

There is another perfectly reasonable path to take though, especially flavored for CY 597 and the changes to the LGCS it ushered in. Hooray for eliminating the 3rd Level barrier!

Human - Lucky Start (Complete Scoundrel)
Bard 1 - Extra Music (Complete Adventurer), Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1, Countersong
Bard 2 -
Bard 3 - Unbelievable Luck (Complete Scoundrel), Inspire Competence
Bard 4 -
Bard 5 -
Bard 6 - Lyric Spell, Suggestion
Bard 7 -
Bard 8 - Inspire Courage +2
Fortune's Friend 1 - Tempting Fate
Fortune's Friend 2 - Survivor's Luck
Sublime Chord 1 - 5

I've got a bard build right now at S10 D14 C14 I10 W10 C16 that's going to try this progression.

- Marty Lund

Haven't broken down and picked up complete scoundrel..yet. What's the gist of the Lucky/Unbelievable Luck feats and the Fortune's Friend prestige class?

If you're talking about a lot of spell casting, I understand the Lyric Spell feat. Why did you pass on metamagic song/feats? Too many to take?

Just curious...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rerednaw 04-10-07, 12:48 PM	I have a bard who hit level 2 just prior to 597. Now I'm debating on starting over. He was going to tank but with Alter Self being gone his cardboard AC got even thinner. So he's looking at retraining 2 feats which were melee oriented plus a first level spell. That's level 5 before he's "fixed" so the first question would be is it worth the effort? If I start over I had two other bard build choices: Bardx, plain vanilla bard. or Bard10/Sublime5 What feat choices would you go with: Bard x: to complement straight buffing and support. Bard10/Sublime5: support plus some metamagic to get more bang out of metamagic song. Suggestions welcome.
Timlagor 04-10-07, 12:51 PM	With Sublime Chord it's probably worth dropping a level or two into something like Marshal since you'll get the higher level spells anyway.
Rerednaw 04-10-07, 01:05 PM	With Sublime Chord it's probably worth dropping a level or two into something like Marshal since you'll get the higher level spells anyway. What feats would you go for a bard9/marsh1/schord5?
Nutation 04-10-07, 01:41 PM	If you still want to tank, Mirror Image is a reasonable substitute for Alter Self. Shorter duration, more effective. If you post your build, we can offer other suggestions as well. Bards can certainly work in melee.
UMiskatonic 04-10-07, 02:37 PM	Bard 1/Fighter 4/Warchanter 10 is a great fighting bard. You can certainly be a melee bard. However you have to plan for it. You can NOT just take any bard into melee, that's a different thing. Forgive me if the numbers are off, I'm at work...
JamesMaissen 04-10-07, 03:32 PM	I have a bard who hit level 2 just prior to 597. Now I'm debating on starting over. He was going to tank but with Alter Self being gone his cardboard AC got even thinner. So he's looking at retraining 2 feats which were melee oriented plus a first level spell. That's level 5 before he's "fixed" so the first question would be is it worth the effort? Well it's good to take stock of your position earlier rather than later. One of two things will happen: 1> You will decide it's better to start over, or 2> You are happy with what you can become. So either you will lose out on just 3-4 mods worth of investment or you will be content with what you have, neither of which is that bad a thing. With any character you need to get past the flash and the names to ask yourself what they will be accomplishing and what you want them to be able to accomplish. That you are going to be a X doesn't mean awhole lot if X doesn't give you much besides the cool name, X. Heck just call yourself an X and pick something that gives you what you want to do. If you want a melee oriented bard then the easiest route is towards Warchanter. A few people have had success with a melee bard on their own, but that takes alot more work to go uphill that way. Decisions there are based on class breakdown going into it as well as understanding how flexible to party needs you should desire to be. On the otherhand, if you want a casting focused Bard then Sublime Cord can work well if you don't fall into the trap that other mixed class PrCs tend to do. If you think of it still as a Bard then you will be fine, but if you confuse it with a sorcerer then you will have problems. You simply don't have the spell slots to be a sorcerer even if you are taking from their spells known. Assuming that you are going with a Sublime Cord then you need to figure out skills and how you will manage them as a good number will be spoken for already. Then you need to decide how much you wish to deviate from Bard10 going into it. A level of Marshal works very well as a trade off for 4th level spells from the bard casting slots. More than that and you loose inspire greatness which is a wonderful ability. Virtuoso is a nice hedge on that, but really doesn't give you much in the LG framework of levels here. But that boils down to what roles you wish to fill and actions you want to be taking and enabling. Towards feats I would look at Disguise Spell as I think it's a wonderful feat. Also Melodic Casting is nice, as are some of the Bard Music feats. -James
paigeoliver 04-10-07, 04:40 PM	You can probably salvage a bard with combat feats by moving into marshall and fighter (or Paladin). That way you won't have to retrain anything at all. Forget about your bard spells, get some full plate, take advantage of your high charisma and keep on keeping on. I have seen a lot of very effective marshall/bards who never cast any spells at all.
frupton 04-10-07, 11:46 PM	Feat suggestions for Bard10/SubChord5: 1) Improved Initiative. Going first rocks. Solid for any caster, but particularly when you're the one inspiring courage or casting haste. Your fighters will not want to delay just so you can buff them. 2) Melodic Casting. Frees up skill points so you can meet the extensive skill prereqs for Sublime Chord more easily. Particularly important if you are headed for SubChord but didn't give yourself a 14 Int. Casting while performing is an added bonus. 3) Obscure Lore. I may be peculiar in my fondness for this, but I like being able to routinely crank out high knowledge checks. A +4 to bardic knowledge tends to get you one additional piece of info per knowledge check. Learning that key fact about an offbeat monster's attacks or defenses can be the difference between life and death. 4) Spell Penetration is a good choice at level 12, as it will combine with SubChord's Song of Arcane Power to give you +6 to caster level to overcome SR. 5) Crafting feats are always solid, particularly Wondrous Items or Arms & Armor. 6) For additional defensive potential, you could consider Danger Sense, Force of Personality, Improved Toughness, or Dive for Cover, depending on your taste. A level of Marshal and/or a level or two of Virtuoso along the way are certainly worth considering. Taking a level of Marshal to motivate your own Charisma may be considered cheesy, however. If you're going to take a Marshal dip, I'd suggest a combat-use aura such as Master of Tactics/Art of War/Motivate Dex, and earn the respect of your table during combat.
frupton 04-10-07, 11:46 PM	You can probably salvage a bard with combat feats by moving into marshall and fighter (or Paladin). That way you won't have to retrain anything at all. Forget about your bard spells, get some full plate, take advantage of your high charisma and keep on keeping on. Is that the story of how you became a Paladin? :D
Morgen 04-11-07, 12:35 AM	So how about a Bard 6/Lyric Thumaturge 4/Sublime Cord 6? That might lead into some interesting situations, no? Just a thought since it all ends up the same at the end, and it gives you a little bit more of an arcane twist. Though...at that point...you could just make a sorcerer... No bonus caster levels though.
frupton 04-11-07, 02:55 AM	So how about a Bard 6/Lyric Thumaturge 4/Sublime Chord 6? That might lead into some interesting situations, no? Just a thought since it all ends up the same at the end, and it gives you a little bit more of an arcane twist. Though...at that point...you could just make a sorcerer... No bonus caster levels though. I believe you may encounter table variation regarding your Sublime Chord caster level if you do this. As I read it, Sublime Chord states that your caster level is determined by adding your Sublime Chord level to "your level in another arcane spellcasting class." Technically that is Bard 6 (or LT 4) in the above build, so your Sublime Chord caster level would not get to count your LT levels. If it had said that you add your Sublime Chord level to your caster level of another arcane spellcasing class, then you'd be OK, becuase LT levels add to your bard caster level. You can perhaps make a good argument that the latter is the intent, and that you should get full caster level for Sublime Chord in the Bard/LT/SubChord build, but your table DM may or may not agree.
Mommy was an Orc 04-11-07, 08:38 AM	An interesting feat is Sound of Silence from Complete Scoundrel - if you've got Harmonize going, you can Deafen spellcasters with the DC based on your Perform check as a move action. For my Bard, that's going to be one of his 9th level feats(retraining Daunting Presence into Melodic Casting)
kjenks 04-11-07, 04:19 PM	Forget about your bard spells, get some full plate, take advantage of your high charisma and keep on keeping on. I have seen a lot of very effective marshall/bards who never cast any spells at all. I analyzed this a while back for a melee bard character I was planning. There are quite a few Open bard spells which can be cast in fullplate with no arcane spell failure: 1x 0-LEVEL BARD SPELLS (CANTRIPS) Flare: Dazzles one creature (-1 on attack rolls). 8x 1ST-LEVEL BARD SPELLS Critical Strike: Swift. For 1 round you gain +1d6 damage, doubled threat range, and +4 on attack rolls to confirm critical threats on flanked or denied-Dex foes. SpC Expeditious Retreat, Swift: Your speed increases by 30 ft. for 1 round. SpC Feather Fall: Objects or creatures fall slowly. Focusing Chant: Swift. Gain +1 on attack rolls, skill checks and ability checks. SpC Invisibility, Swift: Invisibility lasts 1 round. SpC Locate City: Find nearest city. RD Master’s Touch: Swift. You gain proficiency in a weapon or shield touched for 1 min./level. SpC Ventriloquism: Throws voice for 1 min./level. 8x 2ND-LEVEL BARD SPELLS Bladeweave: Swift. Your melee attack dazes your opponent. SpC Blindness/Deafness: Makes subject blind or deaf. Blur: Attacks miss subject 20% of the time. Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow. Fly, Swift: You fly for 1 round. SpC Sonic Weapon: Weapon touched deals +1d6 sonic damage with each hit. SpC Suggestion: Compels subject to follow stated course of action. Tongues: Speak any language. 2x 3RD-LEVEL BARD SPELLS Displacement: Attacks miss subject 50%. Geas, Lesser: Commands subject of 7 HD or less. 2x 4TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS Dimension Door: Teleports you short distance. Shout: Deafens all within cone and deals 5d6 sonic damage. 2x 5TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS Suggestion, Mass: As suggestion, plus one subject/level. Wail of Doom: Deals 1d4 damage/level in 30-ft. cone, plus targets panicked or shaken. SpC 3x 6TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS Charm Monster, Mass: As charm monster, but all within 30 ft. Otto's Irresistible Dance: Forces subject to dance. Shout, Greater: Devastating yell deals 10d6 sonic damage; stuns creatures, damages objects. So that's... 1x 0-LEVEL BARD SPELLS (CANTRIPS) 8x 1ST-LEVEL BARD SPELLS 8x 2ND-LEVEL BARD SPELLS 2x 3RD-LEVEL BARD SPELLS 2x 4TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS 2x 5TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS 3x 6TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS In fact, there are so many of these spells that a bard could select most of his spells (other than cantrips) from this list of Open bard spells that have no somatic component. An armored bard could choose long-duration or non-combat spells for those few spells he'd have to take from the list of spells that do have a somatic component. At level 15, a bard can know... Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 15th 6 4 4 4 4 3 — Subtracting those numbers, there are seven spells above cantrip level (2x 2nd, 2x 3rd, 2x 4th, 1x5th) that the armored 15th bard would have to select that do have a somatic component. Here are some of those non-combat or long-duration spells: 1ST-LEVEL BARD SPELLS Cure Light Wounds: Cures 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5). Detect Secret Doors: Reveals hidden doors within 60 ft. Friendly Face: Gain +5 bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks. RD Healthful Rest: Subjects heal at twice the normal rate. SpC Magic Mouth: Speaks once when triggered. Costs 10 gp. Nystul’s Magic Aura: Alters object’s magic aura. Obscure Object: Masks object against scrying. Scholar’s Touch: Read books in seconds. RD Undetectable Alignment: Conceals alignment for 24 hours. Unseen Servant: Invisible force obeys your commands. 2ND-LEVEL BARD SPELLS Animal Messenger: Sends a Tiny animal to a specific place. Cure Moderate Wounds: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10). Locate Object: Senses direction toward object (specific or type). Misdirection: Misleads divinations for one creature or object. Whispering Wind: Sends a short message 1 mile/level. 3RD-LEVEL BARD SPELLS Glibness: You gain +30 bonus on Bluff checks, and your lies can escape magical discernment. Illusory Script: Only intended reader can decipher. Costs 50 gp. Leomund’s Tiny Hut: Creates shelter for ten creatures. Listening Coin: Allows remote eavesdropping. SpC Phantom Steed: Magic horse appears for 1 hour/level. Remove Curse: Frees object or person from curse. Scrying: Spies on subject from a distance. Secret Page: Changes one page to hide its real content. Sepia Snake Sigil: Creates text symbol that immobilizes reader. Costs 500 gp. Speak with Animals: You can communicate with animals. Speechlink: You and the target can verbally communicate at any distance. SpC 4TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS Break Enchantment: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification. Detect Scrying: Alerts you of magical eavesdropping. Hallucinatory Terrain: Makes one type of terrain appear like another (field into forest, or the like). Legend Lore: Lets you learn tales about a person, place, or thing. Costs 250 gp. Leomund's Secure Shelter: Creates sturdy cottage. Locate Creature: Indicates direction to familiar creature. Zone of Silence: Keeps eavesdroppers from overhearing conversations. 5TH-LEVEL BARD SPELLS Dream: Sends message to anyone sleeping. False Vision: Fools scrying with an illusion. Costs 250 gp. Hidden Lodge: Creates a camouflaged Secure Shelter. SpC Mirage Arcana: As hallucinatory terrain, plus structures. Nightmare: Sends vision dealing 1d10 damage, fatigue. Seeming: Changes appearance of one person per two levels. Taken together, that's a pretty good spell list. That gives the armored bard way more spells to select from than a Hunter of the Dead or a Knight of the Chalice, for example.
mlund 04-11-07, 05:03 PM	I recommend avoiding the Melee focus with your d6 Hit Die. If you're going into Sublime Chord it means you are going to be dropping Arcane Death and Battle Control spells like nobodies business. There is a good argument for going with Ranged Weapons and later Ranged Touch spells (Orbs) when you hit Sublime Chord. In that case you might consider Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot as go-to feats early on. There is another perfectly reasonable path to take though, especially flavored for CY 597 and the changes to the LGCS it ushered in. Hooray for eliminating the 3rd Level barrier! Human - Lucky Start (Complete Scoundrel) Bard 1 - Extra Music (Complete Adventurer), Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1, Countersong Bard 2 - Bard 3 - Unbelievable Luck (Complete Scoundrel), Inspire Competence Bard 4 - Bard 5 - Bard 6 - Lyric Spell, Suggestion Bard 7 - Bard 8 - Inspire Courage +2 Fortune's Friend 1 - Tempting Fate Fortune's Friend 2 - Survivor's Luck Sublime Chord 1 - 5 I've got a bard build right now at S10 D14 C14 I10 W10 C16 that's going to try this progression. - Marty Lund
Rerednaw 04-13-07, 12:44 PM	I recommend avoiding the Melee focus with your d6 Hit Die. If you're going into Sublime Chord it means you are going to be dropping Arcane Death and Battle Control spells like nobodies business. There is a good argument for going with Ranged Weapons and later Ranged Touch spells (Orbs) when you hit Sublime Chord. In that case you might consider Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot as go-to feats early on. There is another perfectly reasonable path to take though, especially flavored for CY 597 and the changes to the LGCS it ushered in. Hooray for eliminating the 3rd Level barrier! Human - Lucky Start (Complete Scoundrel) Bard 1 - Extra Music (Complete Adventurer), Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1, Countersong Bard 2 - Bard 3 - Unbelievable Luck (Complete Scoundrel), Inspire Competence Bard 4 - Bard 5 - Bard 6 - Lyric Spell, Suggestion Bard 7 - Bard 8 - Inspire Courage +2 Fortune's Friend 1 - Tempting Fate Fortune's Friend 2 - Survivor's Luck Sublime Chord 1 - 5 I've got a bard build right now at S10 D14 C14 I10 W10 C16 that's going to try this progression. - Marty Lund Haven't broken down and picked up complete scoundrel..yet. What's the gist of the Lucky/Unbelievable Luck feats and the Fortune's Friend prestige class? If you're talking about a lot of spell casting, I understand the Lyric Spell feat. Why did you pass on metamagic song/feats? Too many to take? Just curious...