Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shieldhart91 01-02-08, 09:51 AM	What are thoughts on a Knight of Furyondy becoming a member of the Drinkers of the Cup of Midnight and a Thieves Guild, and additionally- taking Rogue and Spymaster levels? Secondly, what is some good spy gear? Already got the following down: Possum Pouch Hat of Disguise Glove of Storing Circlet of Persuasion Boots of Elvenkind Cloak of Elvenkind Mask of Lies
MwaO 01-02-08, 10:33 AM	What are thoughts on a Knight of Furyondy becoming a member of the Drinkers of the Cup of Midnight and a Thieves Guild, and additionally- taking Rogue and Spymaster levels? Secondly, what is some good spy gear? Already got the following down: Possum Pouch Hat of Disguise Glove of Storing (need another glove- Glove of Rust maybe?) Isn't that Britt Frey's character? :) Remember, Gloves occupy slots - only one of them can work at a time, even if one hand is apparently 'empty' Circlet of Persuasion I'd get things that let you function as an apparent Rogue - you won't have the skill points to cover all the roles, so you could use magic to replace it - at your level, Cloak and Boots of Elvenkind are cheap as an example.
JamesMaissen 01-02-08, 11:41 AM	Isn't that Britt Frey's character? :) Remember, Gloves occupy slots - only one of them can work at a time, even if one hand is apparently 'empty' But you could wear both, having just one active then remove it to activate the other. Not something that you would normally do with gloves, but something that's reasonably common with neck items and rings. -James
DerekSTheRed 01-02-08, 01:09 PM	I would add Mask of Lies to the list of magic items. Undetectable alignment and a bonus to bluff and disguise are always good. As far as Paladins joining meta-orgs go, as long as the meta-org allows Lawful Good then it shouldn't be a problem. Of course I play in the BK where a paladin will regularly remove the bottom jaw of Iuzians to prevent a speak with dead spell from working. Those same paladins are given warning in other regions for some strange reason. ;) Derek
TWG_Prometheus 01-02-08, 01:20 PM	I haven't seen a thieves guild in Greyhawk yet that could support a Paladin's ideals, however. Even if there isn't an alignment restriction, the guilds usually have more than enough illicit activities to create a problem here. I have far fewer problems with a Paladin becoming a Rogue/Spymaster. Their code mentions lying, but only as a subset of acting honorably. They only become ex-Paladins for 'or who grossly violates the code of conduct' in regard to the acting honorably section, so I wouldn't balk too much at a Paladin that lied occaisionally, but I wouldn't want to see them making a major character theme out of it either.
MwaO 01-02-08, 01:21 PM	I would add Mask of Lies to the list of magic items. Undetectable alignment and a bonus to bluff and disguise are always good. As long as you're talking about the non-MIC version - the MIC version is lousy. "Hi, ignore me having my face totally covered by a mask." - the Disguise Self ability at will of the first version is important for that reason...
Iswald 01-03-08, 04:06 AM	As long as you have a good RP reason, then I would have no problem with a paladin joining a theive's guild or the drinkers. It could be as simple as needing to infiltrate the organization to bring it down. It may also fit your deity's portfolio, such as Johydee's: deception, espionage and protection. As far as taking class levels, that's just a way to give your PC the abilities that you envision it having. Being able to sneak attack lets you take devoted inquisitor and staggering strike. These give your PC game mechanic options which don't have to conflic with your PC's RP.
Shieldhart91 01-03-08, 06:49 AM	The idea behind Furyondy's Thieves Guild is that it is actually a largely patriotic organization, and was founded by a crippled Knight before the Northern Crusade (IIRC.) That being said, it fits well enough for my character, who hates Thrommel and the Master of Bronzeblood (two biggest region-specific enemies) the most: he's even parleyed with Thrommel, and his AC 31-33, hitting him once. That hurt too, I did ~30 points of damage =D The Master of Bronzeblood...I am not so keen on fighting. In fact, I daresay I'm avoiding battling him until 15th level =P After those two arch-enemies, his biggest hatred lands on the great Iuz, who I can't say my character has seen, aside from one module (which was a dream, at that.) It's also worth noting that I've -heard- that whatever is the MIC should be used over what is in the previous books (as with the Rod of True Striking: the price remains the same, but the bonus garnered goes from +10 to +5.) If the Mask of Lies was nerfed from Complete Adventurer to the MIC, I might not even considering purchasing it. I do have access to it, I think...but I'll have to double-check my ARs. And yes, my triad has agreed that my character is nearly exactly like Britt Fey's character. I had no idea- I merely thought Britt had an Exemplar, among a few others. Fancy that! XD I'm mimicking MADNESS! UPDATE: List updated on the original post for "spy gear." UPDATE 2: Wanted to re-iterate this one...so if I purchased ONE Glove of Storing, I couldn't purchase a Gauntlet of Rust? They're each one hand, and it makes perfect sense that both would work. If you guys have a page reference for this, I'd like to see it =) Thanks!
bitznarf 01-03-08, 07:45 AM	It's also worth noting that I've -heard- that whatever is the MIC should be used over what is in the previous books (as with the Rod of True Striking: the price remains the same, but the bonus garnered goes from +10 to +5.) This is incorrect, only the books listed in the LGCS are under the 'newest printed' rule.
Shieldhart91 01-03-08, 07:47 AM	Thanks, bitznarf. I'll have to go and check that out. Secondly, I'm creating a cohort to follow me around...and I need some help. I'm making a Cleric of Johydee, and I'm wondering what's some input on this, what type of spells should I have on my default list, etc. Thanks!
kenobi65 01-03-08, 11:17 AM	he's even parleyed with Thrommel, and his AC 31-33, hitting him once. That hurt too, I did ~30 points of damage =D That's an interesting approach to parleying. ;)
katrick 01-03-08, 05:50 PM	Any Paladin that has earned the deserved luck,through perserverance and skill to join(infiltrate) the Drinkers shall be awarded thier greatest honour. Cloning by the mighty!! Thereupon and forever shall their name live on(in unnamed tombs) Step up! Come one, ye all we are drafting soon! If you think you can be usefull(which we know you shall)mwahmwahhaahhahah There is always a use for Lesser men/Ladies whom have chosen to follow the greatest gods: Wastri:humans/amphibians Vathris:flan Urogalan:halflings Shekinester:nagas Quetzalcoatl:olman Osprem:suel Muamman Duathal:dwarves Lendor:suel Keogthom:humans/others Katay:decay,inevitability,time Johydee:oeridians Gendwar Argrim:dwarves Daern:oeridians Cyndor:oeridians Arvoreen:halflings Join Us Now! All these gods fit your worship and your race, your tenets need never be broken. Paladinhood awaits, your needy shall be filled forever more. Doghai Darius
Timlagor 01-04-08, 07:16 PM	But you could wear both, having just one active then remove it to activate the other. Not something that you would normally do with gloves, but something that's reasonably common with neck items and rings. -James 1) Since it's the first one put on that is active good luck persuading the GM that you put the outside gloves on first. 2) It's very far from clear that removing an active magic item activates a currently inactive item in the same slot. Some GMs will require you to actively put an item on for it to become active (possibly needing to take it off first).
Shieldhart91 01-05-08, 09:23 AM	That's an interesting approach to parleying. ;) Kenobi, that is how my character parleys ;-) Especially with the likes of Thrommel!
JamesMaissen 01-06-08, 12:55 AM	1) Since it's the first one put on that is active good luck persuading the GM that you put the outside gloves on first. 2) It's very far from clear that removing an active magic item activates a currently inactive item in the same slot. Some GMs will require you to actively put an item on for it to become active (possibly needing to take it off first). 1. The hands item in question was a glove of storing to be coupled with a gauntlet of rust.. so I was assuming that you would have the character wear one on each hand. Hence my comment about not normally being able to do this with most gloves.... 2. The opposite would allow a character to wear a cursed item without it being active while not wearing any other item in that slot. That seems bad to me. Besides.. why wouldn't the item be active? It's not 'donning' the item that activates it, but rather wearing it. The only thing stopping it from being active is the presence of the other item.. if it's removed.. then why would the other item not be active? The item is worn and there's no other item stopping it from being active.. -James
Arvagor 01-06-08, 01:10 AM	1. The hands item in question was a glove of storing to be coupled with a gauntlet of rust.. so I was assuming that you would have the character wear one on each hand. Hence my comment about not normally being able to do this with most gloves.... The rules in the DMG (page 214) seem quite clear IMHO [emphasis mine]... "A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which place on the body the item is worn. [...] • One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands" I think the spirit of the rules are clear that wearing two gloves with different functions (e.g., glove of storing and a gauntlet of rust) does not constitute a pair of gloves, so you could not wear both (one on each hand), and have both function at the same time.
boolean 01-06-08, 07:14 AM	The rules in the DMG (page 214) seem quite clear IMHO [emphasis mine]... "A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which place on the body the item is worn. [...] • One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands" I think the spirit of the rules are clear that wearing two gloves with different functions (e.g., glove of storing and a gauntlet of rust) does not constitute a pair of gloves, so you could not wear both (one on each hand), and have both function at the same time. The Magic Item Compendium is quite clear that "hands" is a single item slot, and that an item that consists of a single glove or gauntlet occupies the entire slot. Cue argument that "that part of MIC isn't a binding rules source for LG'''"
Shieldhart91 01-06-08, 02:18 PM	That makes sense to me. I don't have access to Gauntlet of Rust, but it'd still be nice if I could AND it would work with the Glove of Storing. More to the point, I don't think I would wear a Glove of Storing unless I got the "feel" for them. Better to have those gauntlets from the MIC that let me ignore the miss chance from incorporeal foes and let me do and extra +1d6 points of damage!
jstorrie 01-06-08, 03:51 PM	Better to have Gloves of Dexterity!
JamesMaissen 01-06-08, 04:33 PM	The rules in the DMG (page 214) seem quite clear IMHO [emphasis mine]... "A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which place on the body the item is worn. [...] • One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands" I think the spirit of the rules are clear that wearing two gloves with different functions (e.g., glove of storing and a gauntlet of rust) does not constitute a pair of gloves, so you could not wear both (one on each hand), and have both function at the same time. Umm.. I *was* saying that... the point is if you wear two, having one be non-functional then remove the functional one that the non-functional one becomes active. The contention was that such an item might need to be taken off and worn again to function, which I have issue with... -James
Shieldhart91 01-07-08, 04:04 PM	Better to have Gloves of Dexterity! Can't. My dex is capped out at a maximum of 13, and I'm not willing to waste an ability bump at Level 12 to get that extra feat OOMPH for my character (to go from Dexterity 12 to 13.) I currently possess +2 Dwarvencraft Full Plate, and I am perfectly satisfied that I didn't dish out the ~11,000gp to buy Mithral Full Plate SOLELY for a Dexterity Max increaser. My current gear, however, since it seems a good idea to bring in the optimization wagon... +2 Dwarvencraft Full Plate +1 Green Starmetal Sacred Greatsword Masterwork Silver Warhammer Kheferu Greatsword (Allows me to ignore DR of Earth Elementals- quite useful, for the ~700 gp it ran me) Tower Shield (Mundane) Gauntlets of Wraith-Striking (See Above; comes from the MIC, might not be the right name) Vest of Resistance +1 Hat of Disguise Couple Scrolls of Fly Couple Potions of Invisibility (Had these since Level 3, never really used them) Wands of Cure Light Wounds Wand of Lesser Vigor (not sure if it's actually on this character; might only be on my Monk) I might be leaving a few items out, mostly out of poor memory. So far on the list to purchase next include: Glove of Storing, Winged Boots or Gryphon Mount, Ring of Protection +X. I want to get Holy or Bane (Evil Outsiders) on the Greatsword with all of the enchantments; I want to increase the Vest of Resistance up farther, because my Reflex save is abyssmal (~+4 @ Level 9.) Possum Pouch is still iffy. I've been neglecting to save up for a Belt of Giant Strength +4- the cost is just too much when you get 2,300 gp a mod. Better spent elsewhere, IMO. I also have access to the "animated" enchantment- might be willing to take the -2 on attacks for an enchanted tower shield. +5 to AC while still being able to use a greatsword? Shwing. --- Damage Low-Down Occult Slayer: +1d6 v. Spellcasters Green Starmetal: +1d6 v. Outsiders Sacred: Extra d6s to certain opponents. Can't remember the specifics. Haven't played this guy since December! Gauntlets: Extra d6s v. Incorporeal foes Once I get Rogue, I'll get the Sneak Attack, which is a little more damage. Mostly, it's a power attacking fest for me. Debuff with Charm of the Fortunate, utilize Bane of my Enemies, hope Recitation/Haste/Righteous Wrath is up, and swing away for ~25-40 points of damage on a normal hit, dependent on what the creature is. Involves asking the DM a lot of questions, sadly. But it gets the job done. Debate lying upon the next step: is Holy worth it? Are there any super duper weapon enhancements that might prove exceptionally useful here?
UMiskatonic 01-09-08, 11:52 AM	I've got a rogue/ranger, and I have the same gauntlet of questions for most DMs. Is it evil? Is it vulnerable to sneak attack? Is it an outsider,.... Overall, I think you've missed a number of smaller items. Maybe you just haven't mentioned them, but here you go. potion of water breathing potion of lesser restoration (1 round, yay) potion of see invisibility potion of blur (concealment prevents sneak attacks) After that, I'd look through your favors, and see if you can't enchant the silver warhammer to +1. Magic + silver is good vs. vampires, and I think you need magic bludgeoning for liches. It's also a cheap upgrade. THEN, I would take advantage of the slots you still have open. Cloak, belt, boots, bracers, ring 1, ring 2, neck. Fairly affordable items, like an amulet of health +2 might be a good move. More hit points also substitute for a bad reflex save, since failing a reflex save usually means more damage. Cheaper items like armbands of might or a healing belt should be snapped up as soon as you find any. Saves are more important at higher levels, I'd upgrade the vest sooner than later. Finally, I'd skip holy. Sacred is almost as good, and holy doesn't add enough to justify the price.
copperwyrmling 01-09-08, 01:48 PM	potion of see invisibility You can't make Personal spells into potions :( Also, you don't need any favor access to enchant a masterwork silver hammer to +1 (or +2 or +5), those upgrades are Open. Finally, I'd skip holy. Sacred is almost as good, and holy doesn't add enough to justify the price. That depends on whether you fight a lot of evil creatures who aren't evil outsiders. Holy is +2d6 untyped damage for the +2 enhancement, which is pretty good value. Sacred is superb value against evil outsiders and pretty good against undead, but doesn't do much against evil monsters of any other type.
UMiskatonic 01-09-08, 02:45 PM	True, true. I apologize for working too quickly. Good catch on the warhammer, I'm flashing back to earlier versions of the rules, since I haven't played in a while. For equipment, what I'm trying to say is that you need something to be able to deal with certain situations that are likely to come up. One of those is fighting invisible creatures. So, if you can use a scroll of invisibility purge or see invisibility, do that. If you come across elixir of blindsight, do that instead. If the best you can manage is buying a scroll, and handing it to the wizard, so be it. Failing all of those, put some skill points into listen. Another is recovering from blindness, which is a TERRIBLE condition. There's a couple of ways to go here as well, all I'm trying to say is that you should have one. ---------------------------------------------------------- Copper Wyrmling, let me see if I can be more clear about holy. I think it's one of the best upgrades, and my highest level character has it on her main weapon. However, I don't recommend that the OP add holy on top of the existing sacred upgrade. That's not a +2 cost. That's taking a +2 equivalent weapon, and making it a +4 equivalent weapon. It's a big enough difference in cost that I wouldn't do it. You may, of course, disagree. Another reason is that the OP's character, generally, is either going to get sneak attack damage, OR sacred and starmetal bonuses to damage. I think it's far more likely that the character will fail to do damage because a bad save took him out of the fight. So, I would skip holy for now, and upgrade the vest. my 2 cents
copperwyrmling 01-09-08, 03:25 PM	True, true. I apologize for working too quickly. Good catch on the warhammer, I'm flashing back to earlier versions of the rules, since I haven't played in a while. No problem ;) One of those is fighting invisible creatures. So, if you can use a scroll of invisibility purge or see invisibility, do that. If you come across elixir of blindsight, do that instead. If the best you can manage is buying a scroll, and handing it to the wizard, so be it. Failing all of those, put some skill points into listen. Another is recovering from blindness, which is a TERRIBLE condition. There's a couple of ways to go here as well, all I'm trying to say is that you should have one. Okay. I agree completely then :) *puts potion of remove blindness on dervish's list of equipment to buy, and wishes she had a way to see invis with that PC* Copper Wyrmling, let me see if I can be more clear about holy. I think it's one of the best upgrades, and my highest level character has it on her main weapon. However, I don't recommend that the OP add holy on top of the existing sacred upgrade. That's not a +2 cost. That's taking a +2 equivalent weapon, and making it a +4 equivalent weapon. It's a big enough difference in cost that I wouldn't do it. You may, of course, disagree. No, I agree with you then (again) :) Sorry, I misunderstood your original post. Another reason is that the OP's character, generally, is either going to get sneak attack damage, OR sacred and starmetal bonuses to damage. I think it's far more likely that the character will fail to do damage because a bad save took him out of the fight. So, I would skip holy for now, and upgrade the vest. My dervish has been going this route as well, prioritizing defences against stuff that takes him out of the fight, rather than damage (on the advice of people who've played with him and who are pretty much universally of the opinion that he doesn't need higher damage output). Consequently he's well on track to become the first full-BAB L15 PC in Living Greyhawk who's still using a standard +1 weapon ;) (all his weapons are good-aligned due to his Angelhelm, and he has adamantine, but still...) He got his ring of freedom of movement at L12, though, and it's been very nice :)
UMiskatonic 01-09-08, 04:24 PM	I play with a dervish 12, and we found to our surprise one day that you don't want to grapple a dervish. a) Scimitars are light weapons for dervishes b) You can use light weapons in a grapple c) He just kept full attacking, and the grappler was flat-footed vs. the rest of the party So, a ring of freedom of movement does a lot of other great things, but you may not need it as badly as some other characters.
copperwyrmling 01-09-08, 04:48 PM	I play with a dervish 12, and we found to our surprise one day that you don't want to grapple a dervish. a) Scimitars are light weapons for dervishes b) You can use light weapons in a grapple c) He just kept full attacking, and the grappler was flat-footed vs. the rest of the party So, a ring of freedom of movement does a lot of other great things, but you may not need it as badly as some other characters. My dervish uses a falchion and two-handed power attack, which doesn't work so well in a grapple - he won't usually have a scimitar drawn when he gets grabbed. However, it wasn't grapple he was really scared about, as he's never been successfully grappled (nothing really gigantic has ever tried, and full BAB + high Str is generally enough vs Evards and medium-large foes) - it was stuff like solid fog, wall of thorns, entangle, paralysis, etc. He's fought a lot of casters with battlefield control and disabling magic, and one of the times he came closest to dying involved a fight in difficult terrain (undergrowth) when he got hit with a tanglefoot bag while next to two giants with Quickdraw. I've only had it for two games, but it was very useful when a nasty NPC caster dropped an Acid Fog on the party in an attempt to slow us down, do some damage, and stop us from rescuing the NPC they were torturing. It was good to be able to dance out of the cloud, kill the caster, and dance back into the cloud using it for cover ;)
UMiskatonic 01-13-08, 10:56 AM	Those are all legitimate reasons. I tend to play with a lot of casters, so the enemies we have trouble with are the brutes who can take a bag of fire seeds to the face, and still pounce into melee. Results may vary