Access to Mage of the Arcane Order? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Access to Mage of the Arcane Order? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
catsclaw
03-23-07, 01:04 PM Does anyone know of a way to get access to Mage of the Arcane Order? I've got a 4th level Gnome Illusionist going for Shadowcraft Mage in Verbobonc. I was hoping Mage of the Arcane Order would be available for the 6th and 7th (and maybe later) levels (actually, I was hoping Master Specialist would be open, but no luck there).

I actually have access to Mage of the Arcane Order through a metaorg, but in order to get that level of access you need to be able to cast 5th level spells, and be in the metaorg for a year-and-a-half real-time.

I'll never understand metaorgs that are so much more onerous to qualify for than what they give you access to.
bitznarf
03-23-07, 01:12 PM I know of a couple non Verbobonc meta-orgs that give access, athough they also have a 'time in org' type restriction on them (I think). The College of Sages and Sorcery in the Duchy of Urnst, and the Arcane Sanctum in Zeif.
CrystalBlue
03-23-07, 01:25 PM Giving access to PrC's should never be an expectation of a meta-org. Meta-orgs are there for the role play aspect and to get players more involved in the storylines. My Rangers of the Vesve didn't join because they wanted access to something, they joined because they want to protect their homelands. I'm not a Knight of the Holy Shielding because I want levels in the PrC, I'm there because I love swining around the title of Knight Inquisitor of the Shieldlands at the (character) age of 16.

I don't want to sound negitive, but I've seen too many people want to go out there and try for a meta-org just so they get access to pretty flashy lights. In Highfolk, I have yet to see good access to a PrC. The only one I can think of is The Fifth District, which gives you Spymaster. Beyond that, the meta-orgs are just fluff, really...and that's what it should be.

And one shouldn't ask where they can get PrC access in a mod either. That's technically cheating. It's harsh when you play it with your rogue and then find out it had access to Mage of the Arcane Order. I guess, for me, I've just been increadbly lucky with PrC access (yay for Church Inquisitor).

Ok...I'm done ranting now. Foxy going to run away now. *scampers off*
bitznarf
03-23-07, 01:37 PM While it may be true that meta-orgs for you are there solely for the purpose of providing some fluff, there are those who believe that the crunch is there for a reason. Or perhaps you can look at it this way: the crunch doesn't matter, so long as it follows the fluff. What I am getting at is, that if a character wants to be a member of an arcane order of some sort, the mechanics used for that are laid out in the PrC 'Mage of the Arcane Order'. The character doesn't look to 'take the PrC Mage of the Arcane Order', the character wants to join an arcane order, and looks to find out how that can be done.

Another way to look at it is this: the PC wants to get something, an item (item access), or training (PrC) of some sort. Word on the street has it that 'those people' (meta-org) can help you in some manner. For an altruistic character, I absolutely don't see a problem with joining a group with no expectation of 'special' access or what have you. For a more selfish character, its entirely reasonable. The meta-orgs can be used to provide the crunch behind the fluff.

Edit: One final note: so what if someone else is using the meta-org to get access to something shiny. Thats their prerogative, this is D&D, people 'find their fun' in their own ways. If player X has fun with the mechanics, great! And if player Y has fun with the 'fluff', great!
catsclaw
03-23-07, 01:59 PM Giving access to PrC's should never be an expectation of a meta-org. Meta-orgs are there for the role play aspect and to get players more involved in the storylines.And that's fine. But when you restrict access to PrC's, you really can't complain when people start shopping around for metaorgs.

I've got no problem with saying "You want to take PrC X? Join metaorg Y". I do have a problem with making the qualifications for metaorg Y particularly onerous. For the Wrinkle Academy, you can't get full access (and with it, access to Mage of the Arcane Order) until you can cast 5th level spells. The first level you could take it is 10th, 4 full levels after you could meet the requirements for the PrC alone. Given those restrictions, you couldn't even finish the PrC before your character retired.
jimmy_dowdall
03-23-07, 05:48 PM try playing in onnwal where in one expired mod, dwarven characters lost all access to to the dwarven meta-orgs. it really sucks for my brother who is playing a dwur cleric and lost access to his church meta-org, i got chucked out too with my dwarven evoker buts thats alright as i'm planning on going back to burn the place to the ground.
vvincent
03-23-07, 05:52 PM I'll never understand metaorgs that are so much more onerous to qualify for than what they give you access to.

Well - you could always ask us why we made the requirements the way we did. That might help you understand. Or not. Since the org was redesigned over a year ago - it's possible that we made a mistake that is only now getting identified. Or perhaps we had a reason within the scope of our plot arc that helped us decide to reserve the prestige class for those fully devoted to our region. Or maybe we had another reason. Unless you bring your concerns to us - we have no way to respond to them and provide an answer.

Vernon L. Vincent
Verbobonc Triad
catsclaw
03-23-07, 06:26 PM Since the org was redesigned over a year ago -- it's possible that we made a mistake that is only now getting identified. Or perhaps we had a reason within the scope of our plot arc that helped us decide to reserve the prestige class for those fully devoted to our region. Or maybe we had another reason.I assumed it was intentional, for some reason I didn't fathom. If it was a mistake, it should be corrected; if there's a logical in-game reason for it, then it wouldn't hurt to have that posted somewhere for players. We haven't all been playing since year 1, and the easier it is for new players to catch up the better for LG.

At any rate, which is the reason?Unless you bring your concerns to us - we have no way to respond to them and provide an answer.Sorry. The impression I get from the Triad -- and this isn't intended as a criticism -- is that you're a little too overworked to deal with these sort of issues. I know people who have submitted adventures and requests for special missions -- I even submitted a proposal for an intro mod -- and I assume it's all being reviewed and considered. But given how much work being a Triad member must be, it doesn't surprise me very few people hear back.
vvincent
03-23-07, 07:07 PM I assumed it was intentional, for some reason I didn't fathom. If it was a mistake, it should be corrected; if there's a logical in-game reason for it, then it wouldn't hurt to have that posted somewhere for players. We haven't all been playing since year 1, and the easier it is for new players to catch up the better for LG.

At any rate, which is the reason?

You're correct - if it's a mistake, it should be corrected. I wasn't saying it was a mistake - only that since no one has mentioned it before now, if it was a mistake - it wouldn't have been caught until this time. Verbobonc has a crapload of metaorganizational opportunities for people (with metaorgs and the Town Project being the primary options) and loads of flavor documents. Given the volume of material we have available - I wouldn't be surprised if we had a mistake or two somewhere. We're not perfect (although we try our best).[/QUOTE]

As for plot-related reasons - sorry, but I can't devulge that information other than to say that there *is* a plot-related reason. I don't know how heavily you've played the Verbobonc plot arc - but a lot of things are going on. The Wrinkle Academy is just as embroiled in things as - say, the Church of Trithereon. They just have a less-obvious part in things.

Sorry. The impression I get from the Triad -- and this isn't intended as a criticism -- is that you're a little too overworked to deal with these sort of issues. I know people who have submitted adventures and requests for special missions -- I even submitted a proposal for an intro mod -- and I assume it's all being reviewed and considered. But given how much work being a Triad member must be, it doesn't surprise me very few people hear back.

Well - I'll give you that we're overworked. But there is a point-of-contact position on the Triad. That person is supposed to answer questions. Never be afraid to ask a question or bring something to our attention. Problems can result when someone decided to take their issues elsewhere before giving us a chance to see if there is any way we can address things.

I know I always try to respond to questions and things. Regarding mod proposals - it's not that we don't want to respond, but we may not always be able to in a timely fashion. It's a lot of working to edit mods, and - while we may get a lot of proposals - not all of them will work for Verbobonc. Which isn't to say that they aren't good ideas, just that not every brilliant suggestion is right for our region.

BTW - to whom did you submit your Intro mod proposal? I haven't seen anything, but I know Rob has had sporadic email issues. Do me a favor and resend it to me.
catsclaw
03-23-07, 07:44 PM As for plot-related reasons - sorry, but I can't devulge that information other than to say that there *is* a plot-related reason. I don't know how heavily you've played the Verbobonc plot arc - but a lot of things are going on. The Wrinkle Academy is just as embroiled in things as - say, the Church of Trithereon. They just have a less-obvious part in things.If there is a plot related reason access to the Mage of the Arcane Order PrC is restricted to 10th level PCs, I haven't seen it. I've played all the year 6 VER mods (except for Castle Estival) and both the currently available year 7 VER mods, and it's not in there. If it's in a year 5 mod, I believe it's now considered public information.

Now, with all the Skyroad malarkey and Magister Har, I can understand there might be some not-obvious restriction for unknown reasons, but I'd expect some NPC's to be commenting on the restriction, even if they didn't know the reasons for it.Regarding mod proposals - it's not that we don't want to respond, but we may not always be able to in a timely fashion. It's a lot of working to edit mods, and - while we may get a lot of proposals - not all of them will work for Verbobonc. Which isn't to say that they aren't good ideas, just that not every brilliant suggestion is right for our region.No -- and better to have too many submissions and pick the right ones than too few. But it'd be nice to know they were received, and again if (and when) they get turned down, so writers can move on to other things.BTW - to whom did you submit your Intro mod proposal? I haven't seen anything, but I know Rob has had sporadic email issues. Do me a favor and resend it to me.I sent it to verboboncwebmaster. I've since resent it to your email, so let me know if you don't get it.
bhale187
03-23-07, 09:02 PM Every time I have sent any request for info to Vernon I've gotten a response within 48 hours at the most, in most cases it has been less than 12 hours. So it surprises me to see you say "very few people hear back" from the Verbonbonc Triad.
Lupo
03-23-07, 09:52 PM And that's fine. But when you restrict access to PrC's, you really can't complain when people start shopping around for metaorgs.

I've got no problem with saying "You want to take PrC X? Join metaorg Y". I do have a problem with making the qualifications for metaorg Y particularly onerous. For the Wrinkle Academy, you can't get full access (and with it, access to Mage of the Arcane Order) until you can cast 5th level spells. The first level you could take it is 10th, 4 full levels after you could meet the requirements for the PrC alone. Given those restrictions, you couldn't even finish the PrC before your character retired.

it is always a little irking that some "open prestige classes" are open without any need and some others are not.

and as long as not ALL "open prestige classes" are either general open OR only available through gained access - making the actually NONC prestige classes - there will be a need for some meta organizations that give access to this special "open prestige classes".

the fluff part of meta organizations is fine, two of my characters are members of "fluff mainly" meta organizations, one of them not less than THREE "fluff mainly" organizations, hey, he gets free standard upkeep in one small part of his home region - guess, he is a druid 10 ;) - and don't ask him about the fourth organization he is ****** with it's momentary state but cannot leave.

back to the original topic:

the "queen's hall" in new keep, sunndi is a cosmopolitan, open-minded organization that gives access to "mage of the arcane order" even to strangers and foreigners :) without residency requirements - alas they charge you a bucket of gold :rolleyes:

but the sunndian meta-organizations are just worked on, so there might be changes . . . . best e-mail the sunndian triad and ask about it.

ciao

martin m.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
catsclaw 03-23-07, 01:04 PM	Does anyone know of a way to get access to Mage of the Arcane Order? I've got a 4th level Gnome Illusionist going for Shadowcraft Mage in Verbobonc. I was hoping Mage of the Arcane Order would be available for the 6th and 7th (and maybe later) levels (actually, I was hoping Master Specialist would be open, but no luck there). I actually have access to Mage of the Arcane Order through a metaorg, but in order to get that level of access you need to be able to cast 5th level spells, and be in the metaorg for a year-and-a-half real-time. I'll never understand metaorgs that are so much more onerous to qualify for than what they give you access to.
bitznarf 03-23-07, 01:12 PM	I know of a couple non Verbobonc meta-orgs that give access, athough they also have a 'time in org' type restriction on them (I think). The College of Sages and Sorcery in the Duchy of Urnst, and the Arcane Sanctum in Zeif.
CrystalBlue 03-23-07, 01:25 PM	Giving access to PrC's should never be an expectation of a meta-org. Meta-orgs are there for the role play aspect and to get players more involved in the storylines. My Rangers of the Vesve didn't join because they wanted access to something, they joined because they want to protect their homelands. I'm not a Knight of the Holy Shielding because I want levels in the PrC, I'm there because I love swining around the title of Knight Inquisitor of the Shieldlands at the (character) age of 16. I don't want to sound negitive, but I've seen too many people want to go out there and try for a meta-org just so they get access to pretty flashy lights. In Highfolk, I have yet to see good access to a PrC. The only one I can think of is The Fifth District, which gives you Spymaster. Beyond that, the meta-orgs are just fluff, really...and that's what it should be. And one shouldn't ask where they can get PrC access in a mod either. That's technically cheating. It's harsh when you play it with your rogue and then find out it had access to Mage of the Arcane Order. I guess, for me, I've just been increadbly lucky with PrC access (yay for Church Inquisitor). Ok...I'm done ranting now. Foxy going to run away now. scampers off
bitznarf 03-23-07, 01:37 PM	While it may be true that meta-orgs for you are there solely for the purpose of providing some fluff, there are those who believe that the crunch is there for a reason. Or perhaps you can look at it this way: the crunch doesn't matter, so long as it follows the fluff. What I am getting at is, that if a character wants to be a member of an arcane order of some sort, the mechanics used for that are laid out in the PrC 'Mage of the Arcane Order'. The character doesn't look to 'take the PrC Mage of the Arcane Order', the character wants to join an arcane order, and looks to find out how that can be done. Another way to look at it is this: the PC wants to get something, an item (item access), or training (PrC) of some sort. Word on the street has it that 'those people' (meta-org) can help you in some manner. For an altruistic character, I absolutely don't see a problem with joining a group with no expectation of 'special' access or what have you. For a more selfish character, its entirely reasonable. The meta-orgs can be used to provide the crunch behind the fluff. Edit: One final note: so what if someone else is using the meta-org to get access to something shiny. Thats their prerogative, this is D&D, people 'find their fun' in their own ways. If player X has fun with the mechanics, great! And if player Y has fun with the 'fluff', great!
catsclaw 03-23-07, 01:59 PM	Giving access to PrC's should never be an expectation of a meta-org. Meta-orgs are there for the role play aspect and to get players more involved in the storylines.And that's fine. But when you restrict access to PrC's, you really can't complain when people start shopping around for metaorgs. I've got no problem with saying "You want to take PrC X? Join metaorg Y". I do have a problem with making the qualifications for metaorg Y particularly onerous. For the Wrinkle Academy, you can't get full access (and with it, access to Mage of the Arcane Order) until you can cast 5th level spells. The first level you could take it is 10th, 4 full levels after you could meet the requirements for the PrC alone. Given those restrictions, you couldn't even finish the PrC before your character retired.
jimmy_dowdall 03-23-07, 05:48 PM	try playing in onnwal where in one expired mod, dwarven characters lost all access to to the dwarven meta-orgs. it really sucks for my brother who is playing a dwur cleric and lost access to his church meta-org, i got chucked out too with my dwarven evoker buts thats alright as i'm planning on going back to burn the place to the ground.
vvincent 03-23-07, 05:52 PM	I'll never understand metaorgs that are so much more onerous to qualify for than what they give you access to. Well - you could always ask us why we made the requirements the way we did. That might help you understand. Or not. Since the org was redesigned over a year ago - it's possible that we made a mistake that is only now getting identified. Or perhaps we had a reason within the scope of our plot arc that helped us decide to reserve the prestige class for those fully devoted to our region. Or maybe we had another reason. Unless you bring your concerns to us - we have no way to respond to them and provide an answer. Vernon L. Vincent Verbobonc Triad
catsclaw 03-23-07, 06:26 PM	Since the org was redesigned over a year ago -- it's possible that we made a mistake that is only now getting identified. Or perhaps we had a reason within the scope of our plot arc that helped us decide to reserve the prestige class for those fully devoted to our region. Or maybe we had another reason.I assumed it was intentional, for some reason I didn't fathom. If it was a mistake, it should be corrected; if there's a logical in-game reason for it, then it wouldn't hurt to have that posted somewhere for players. We haven't all been playing since year 1, and the easier it is for new players to catch up the better for LG. At any rate, which is the reason?Unless you bring your concerns to us - we have no way to respond to them and provide an answer.Sorry. The impression I get from the Triad -- and this isn't intended as a criticism -- is that you're a little too overworked to deal with these sort of issues. I know people who have submitted adventures and requests for special missions -- I even submitted a proposal for an intro mod -- and I assume it's all being reviewed and considered. But given how much work being a Triad member must be, it doesn't surprise me very few people hear back.
vvincent 03-23-07, 07:07 PM	I assumed it was intentional, for some reason I didn't fathom. If it was a mistake, it should be corrected; if there's a logical in-game reason for it, then it wouldn't hurt to have that posted somewhere for players. We haven't all been playing since year 1, and the easier it is for new players to catch up the better for LG. At any rate, which is the reason? You're correct - if it's a mistake, it should be corrected. I wasn't saying it was a mistake - only that since no one has mentioned it before now, if it was a mistake - it wouldn't have been caught until this time. Verbobonc has a crapload of metaorganizational opportunities for people (with metaorgs and the Town Project being the primary options) and loads of flavor documents. Given the volume of material we have available - I wouldn't be surprised if we had a mistake or two somewhere. We're not perfect (although we try our best).[/QUOTE] As for plot-related reasons - sorry, but I can't devulge that information other than to say that there is a plot-related reason. I don't know how heavily you've played the Verbobonc plot arc - but a lot of things are going on. The Wrinkle Academy is just as embroiled in things as - say, the Church of Trithereon. They just have a less-obvious part in things. Sorry. The impression I get from the Triad -- and this isn't intended as a criticism -- is that you're a little too overworked to deal with these sort of issues. I know people who have submitted adventures and requests for special missions -- I even submitted a proposal for an intro mod -- and I assume it's all being reviewed and considered. But given how much work being a Triad member must be, it doesn't surprise me very few people hear back. Well - I'll give you that we're overworked. But there is a point-of-contact position on the Triad. That person is supposed to answer questions. Never be afraid to ask a question or bring something to our attention. Problems can result when someone decided to take their issues elsewhere before giving us a chance to see if there is any way we can address things. I know I always try to respond to questions and things. Regarding mod proposals - it's not that we don't want to respond, but we may not always be able to in a timely fashion. It's a lot of working to edit mods, and - while we may get a lot of proposals - not all of them will work for Verbobonc. Which isn't to say that they aren't good ideas, just that not every brilliant suggestion is right for our region. BTW - to whom did you submit your Intro mod proposal? I haven't seen anything, but I know Rob has had sporadic email issues. Do me a favor and resend it to me.
catsclaw 03-23-07, 07:44 PM	As for plot-related reasons - sorry, but I can't devulge that information other than to say that there is a plot-related reason. I don't know how heavily you've played the Verbobonc plot arc - but a lot of things are going on. The Wrinkle Academy is just as embroiled in things as - say, the Church of Trithereon. They just have a less-obvious part in things.If there is a plot related reason access to the Mage of the Arcane Order PrC is restricted to 10th level PCs, I haven't seen it. I've played all the year 6 VER mods (except for Castle Estival) and both the currently available year 7 VER mods, and it's not in there. If it's in a year 5 mod, I believe it's now considered public information. Now, with all the Skyroad malarkey and Magister Har, I can understand there might be some not-obvious restriction for unknown reasons, but I'd expect some NPC's to be commenting on the restriction, even if they didn't know the reasons for it.Regarding mod proposals - it's not that we don't want to respond, but we may not always be able to in a timely fashion. It's a lot of working to edit mods, and - while we may get a lot of proposals - not all of them will work for Verbobonc. Which isn't to say that they aren't good ideas, just that not every brilliant suggestion is right for our region.No -- and better to have too many submissions and pick the right ones than too few. But it'd be nice to know they were received, and again if (and when) they get turned down, so writers can move on to other things.BTW - to whom did you submit your Intro mod proposal? I haven't seen anything, but I know Rob has had sporadic email issues. Do me a favor and resend it to me.I sent it to verboboncwebmaster. I've since resent it to your email, so let me know if you don't get it.
bhale187 03-23-07, 09:02 PM	Every time I have sent any request for info to Vernon I've gotten a response within 48 hours at the most, in most cases it has been less than 12 hours. So it surprises me to see you say "very few people hear back" from the Verbonbonc Triad.
Lupo 03-23-07, 09:52 PM	And that's fine. But when you restrict access to PrC's, you really can't complain when people start shopping around for metaorgs. I've got no problem with saying "You want to take PrC X? Join metaorg Y". I do have a problem with making the qualifications for metaorg Y particularly onerous. For the Wrinkle Academy, you can't get full access (and with it, access to Mage of the Arcane Order) until you can cast 5th level spells. The first level you could take it is 10th, 4 full levels after you could meet the requirements for the PrC alone. Given those restrictions, you couldn't even finish the PrC before your character retired. it is always a little irking that some "open prestige classes" are open without any need and some others are not. and as long as not ALL "open prestige classes" are either general open OR only available through gained access - making the actually NONC prestige classes - there will be a need for some meta organizations that give access to this special "open prestige classes". the fluff part of meta organizations is fine, two of my characters are members of "fluff mainly" meta organizations, one of them not less than THREE "fluff mainly" organizations, hey, he gets free standard upkeep in one small part of his home region - guess, he is a druid 10 ;) - and don't ask him about the fourth organization he is ****** with it's momentary state but cannot leave. back to the original topic: the "queen's hall" in new keep, sunndi is a cosmopolitan, open-minded organization that gives access to "mage of the arcane order" even to strangers and foreigners :) without residency requirements - alas they charge you a bucket of gold :rolleyes: but the sunndian meta-organizations are just worked on, so there might be changes . . . . best e-mail the sunndian triad and ask about it. ciao martin m.