Post/Author/DateTime	Post
awroe 03-24-07, 08:16 AM	I'm considering a build involving: EWP (Chain, Spiked) Power Attack Combat Reflexes -> Vexing Flanker (+4att on flanks) -> Adaptable Flanker (give flank from any one square you threaten) With the idea that I should be able to give / get flanks most of the time, thus enabling 4 extra points in power attack -> 8 extra damage, along with the bonus for the flanking allies. Potions / spells of Enlarge Person (especially with 50gp potion access) give 20' reach, which enables flanking much larger creatures. How well is this likely to work at higher levels? Will the enemies be too big / immune to flanks? Would there be better feats to use in place of Vexing/Adaptable Flanker?
Jay_Ibero_911 03-24-07, 10:33 AM	I'm considering a build involving: EWP (Chain, Spiked) Power Attack Combat Reflexes -> Vexing Flanker -> Adaptable Flanker With the idea that I should be able to give / get flanks most of the time, thus enabling 4 extra points in power attack -> 8 extra damage, along with the bonus for the flanking allies. Potions / spells of Enlarge Person (especially with 50gp potion access) give 20' reach, which enables flanking much larger creatures. How well is this likely to work at higher levels? Will the enemies be too big / immune to flanks? Would there be better feats to use in place of Vexing/Adaptable Flanker? I don't know why you are concerned with the size of the enemies...size doesn't prevent flanking, and usually makes it easier providing more possible flanking positions...
awroe 03-24-07, 10:47 AM	I don't know why you are concerned with the size of the enemies...size doesn't prevent flanking, and usually makes it easier providing more possible flanking positions... Larger size mean Adaptable Flanker is less likely to allow you to choose a different side to flank from, and thus less useful.
ShinAkuma2 03-24-07, 01:19 PM	Larger size mean Adaptable Flanker is less likely to allow you to choose a different side to flank from, and thus less useful. You can't use Adaptable Flanker to flank with yourself, if that's what you're thinking.
GorTeX 03-24-07, 01:54 PM	IIRC, you are still limited to what is on the charts in the DMG..so enlarge person potions are still 250gp (cl5)...none for just 50gp :(. But then, wands of enlarge person are only 750gp..as long as you have someone with the spell on their list...
awroe 03-24-07, 06:17 PM	You can't use Adaptable Flanker to flank with yourself, if that's what you're thinking. No, but if two characters are on one side (say because there is a line of battle), you can give / get flank because you threaten squares on the far side of the opponent. And you're much more likely to be able to 5' step to give flank.
awroe 03-24-07, 06:18 PM	IIRC, you are still limited to what is on the charts in the DMG..so enlarge person potions are still 250gp (cl5)...none for just 50gp :(. But then, wands of enlarge person are only 750gp..as long as you have someone with the spell on their list... Apologies, I didn't make it clear that the concept would be for an existing character that has access to cheap versions. A wand is still good though.
DroidTrooper 03-24-07, 06:27 PM	My person opinion is that the feat is too narrow of scope to be a worthwhile investment. In the majority of combats flanking can be set up via reasonable amounts of communication. My other problem with the feat is you have to be adjacent to the target to trigger this ability. If you are enlarged with a spiked chain there are distinct advantages to not being adjacent to a target that are going to futher reduce number of times this feat is worthwhile. A technical problem with the feat is that you have to declare when you are using it. I can't tell you the number of times I have seen people fail to declare there dodge targets. I can see this feat not being declared in use when it could be activated. Also, I see your allies not taking advantage of the feat when they could do to lack of understand as to what the feat does. The last problem I have with the feat, is that is the 3rd feat in a chain. 3 feats is a major commitment for most characters and I have a hard time justifing 3 feats to this particular chain. Of course if you happen to a have other abilities that trigger off being in a flanking position (ie sneak attack) the value of this feat increases by a fair margin. And if you know the most common composition of your party then it could be better as well (the more people who can take advantage of flanking) the more potent it is. If you have living in melee heavy area then its probably more worthwhile then in a ranged heavy area.
awroe 03-25-07, 10:00 AM	The last problem I have with the feat, is that is the 3rd feat in a chain. 3 feats is a major commitment for most characters and I have a hard time justifing 3 feats to this particular chain. Of course if you happen to a have other abilities that trigger off being in a flanking position (ie sneak attack) the value of this feat increases by a fair margin. And if you know the most common composition of your party then it could be better as well (the more people who can take advantage of flanking) the more potent it is. If you have living in melee heavy area then its probably more worthwhile then in a ranged heavy area. I'd be thinking of combining it with Staggering Strike (which only triggers if you get a sneak in - much more likely with flanks). I agree three feats is a lot, though they do all provide some benefit - vexing flanker gives a bonus to attack which can translate into bonus damage with PA, CR gives a lot more attacks. I'll probably give it a try and train it out later if it doesn't work.
Sieylianna 03-25-07, 12:37 PM	The viability of the concept depends on where you do most of your play. If you generally play with a small group of people and they can build characters to take advantage of this, it's probably worthwhile. If you're just going to show up at a convention with this guy, it's probably a waste. Ed