An incipient Shadowdancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

An incipient Shadowdancer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
myshkingfh
02-05-07, 10:51 PM I am about to take my 8th level (fighter 2, diviner 1, rogue 4 deep halfling, spiked chain), which will be shadowdancer 1.

I was thinking of taking duskblade 1 (assuming it is approved) after that (+1bab and good saves) using the knowledge skill points to pick up knowledge nature +4 and then taking cat lord 1, cat lord 2 (for the high BAB, good saves and big hide bonus) and then finishing out as rogue.

I would then be Fighter 2, diviner 1, duskbalde 1, shadowdancer 1, Catlord 2, rogue 9, because it seems to me that the only real benefit to shadowdancer is hide in plain sight.

Would it be better to go f2, div1, db1, sd 3, cl 2 r7 in order to get the shadow companion?

Or is it best for some reason I just don't see to go f2, div1, r4, sd9?
Archwolf
02-06-07, 04:59 PM I'm not sure i see a lot of value in going catlord, if duckblade is available. I don't have a lot of experience with high level characters, but this dude will be extremely good at hiding just based on skill points and racial bonus. But you're way behind in how hard you hit things, because with rogue 4 you only do +2d6 in sneak attack damage. If duskblade becomes legal, I think that might be the perfect way to go with this dude, especially when you get the power of channeling magic through a weapon. With one level of shadowdancer, the +2d6 of sneak attack, and the spells through duskblade you could hide in plain sight, take your AoOs with your spiked chain, cast spells through the chain and add your sneak attack damage. Plus, you would have the spells and BAB of a duskblade to hurt things that you can't sneak attack. So, that would be r4/f2/div1/sd1/db5.

If duskblade stays restricted then I'm not sure. Going full on rogue doesn't seem like a great choice, based on other discussions on this board that indicate that higher APL monsters are hard to sneak attack. Don't catlords get some ability to transform? Maybe taking five levels of catlord would make senes with the level of shadowdancer. From prior discussion, it seems like the main advantage of going fulltime shadowdancer is the shadowfriend, though I think shadowjumping may be underrated. With a high Use Magic Device skill check, you could shadow jump across the room and fire a wand of fireballs at a beasty, maybe even with sneak attack.
LGMoses
02-06-07, 07:13 PM KITTIES!!!:bounce:
myshkingfh
02-07-07, 11:46 AM KITTIES!!!:bounce:

You know, if you had a female cat lord, she'd be a cat lady. Just sayin'

I'm not sure i see a lot of value in going catlord, if duckblade is available. I don't have a lot of experience with high level characters, but this dude will be extremely good at hiding just based on skill points and racial bonus. But you're way behind in how hard you hit things, because with rogue 4 you only do +2d6 in sneak attack damage. If duskblade becomes legal, I think that might be the perfect way to go with this dude, especially when you get the power of channeling magic through a weapon. With one level of shadowdancer, the +2d6 of sneak attack, and the spells through duskblade you could hide in plain sight, take your AoOs with your spiked chain, cast spells through the chain and add your sneak attack damage. Plus, you would have the spells and BAB of a duskblade to hurt things that you can't sneak attack. So, that would be r4/f2/div1/sd1/db5.

Duskblade doesn't even get second level spells until db5 I believe. The spell progression is really really slow. Cat Lord gives the same BAB+ as duskblade (fighter progression), but has better skills and skill points. The spell power difference between duskblade 1 and duskblade 4 seems really minor, and I don't think it's worth taking several levels in it. Plus, taking one level of Cat Lord and one level of Duskblade results in (iirc) reflex +2, Fortitude +4, Will +2, taking two levels of Duskblade results in Reflex +0, Fortitude +3, Will +3.

Don't catlords get some ability to transform?

Nope, they just really really like cats. They get some skill bonuses, some animal handling bonuses and they can summon Dire Lions at level 5 or so. Catlord's only good for the good saves, the good BAB and the good skills.

With a high Use Magic Device skill check, you could shadow jump across the room and fire a wand of fireballs at a beasty, maybe even with sneak attack.

I don't need a use magic device skill check because of my level of diviner.

Going full on rogue doesn't seem like a great choice, based on other discussions on this board that indicate that higher APL monsters are hard to sneak attack.

I don't see much reason to go full rogue to finish and not nightsong enforcer. I'm interested in this child of the knight thing, but I don't have tome of magic. Is there any thought that much of tome of magic will be standardized?
UMiskatonic
02-07-07, 12:05 PM The other HUGE ability of shadowdancer is darkvision, which you don't need as a deep halfling.

For a rogue whose already got evasion, I say its a one level class.

Remember not to weaken your BAB too much, you have a lot of +0 Bab levels already. I'd go with Nightsong Enforcer from here out. Your hide skill will be fine, you don't need Catlord's bonuses overly much.
myshkingfh
02-07-07, 12:44 PM The cat lord and duskblade are both +1 to attack at first level, so either way the BAB wouldn't suffer, but yeah, for me, shadowdancer level 2 is not good. Shadowdancer level 3 though, gives the shadowbuddy which has been described as "broken." So , I'd have to suffer through SD 2 to get the SD 3. Nightsong enforcer's BAB and continuing sneak attack are good though, so it might end up being something like

1. rogue
2. diviner
3. fighter
4. rogue
5. rogue
6. rogue
7. fighter
8. shadowdancer
9. duskblade
10. cat lord
11. nightsong enforcer
12. cat lord
13. rogue...
myshkingfh
02-08-07, 01:42 AM So, Duskblade didn't make the cut... Archwolf suggested Ranger in its place. Back to the drawing board I guess...
myshkingfh
02-08-07, 03:35 PM Okay, I think I might not go beyond prc 2 in anything...

8 - shadowdancer (hide in plain sight)
9 - Nightsong Enforcer (+2ref, +1d6 sneak attack +1bab)
10 - Ranger (+2 ref, +2 for, +1bab favored enemy, track)
11 - cat lord (+2 ref, +2 for, +1bab)
12 - cat lord (+1ref, +1 for, +1bab, +4 hide)
13 - exemplar?
14 - exotic weapon master?
15 - ?
16 - ?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
myshkingfh 02-05-07, 10:51 PM	I am about to take my 8th level (fighter 2, diviner 1, rogue 4 deep halfling, spiked chain), which will be shadowdancer 1. I was thinking of taking duskblade 1 (assuming it is approved) after that (+1bab and good saves) using the knowledge skill points to pick up knowledge nature +4 and then taking cat lord 1, cat lord 2 (for the high BAB, good saves and big hide bonus) and then finishing out as rogue. I would then be Fighter 2, diviner 1, duskbalde 1, shadowdancer 1, Catlord 2, rogue 9, because it seems to me that the only real benefit to shadowdancer is hide in plain sight. Would it be better to go f2, div1, db1, sd 3, cl 2 r7 in order to get the shadow companion? Or is it best for some reason I just don't see to go f2, div1, r4, sd9?
Archwolf 02-06-07, 04:59 PM	I'm not sure i see a lot of value in going catlord, if duckblade is available. I don't have a lot of experience with high level characters, but this dude will be extremely good at hiding just based on skill points and racial bonus. But you're way behind in how hard you hit things, because with rogue 4 you only do +2d6 in sneak attack damage. If duskblade becomes legal, I think that might be the perfect way to go with this dude, especially when you get the power of channeling magic through a weapon. With one level of shadowdancer, the +2d6 of sneak attack, and the spells through duskblade you could hide in plain sight, take your AoOs with your spiked chain, cast spells through the chain and add your sneak attack damage. Plus, you would have the spells and BAB of a duskblade to hurt things that you can't sneak attack. So, that would be r4/f2/div1/sd1/db5. If duskblade stays restricted then I'm not sure. Going full on rogue doesn't seem like a great choice, based on other discussions on this board that indicate that higher APL monsters are hard to sneak attack. Don't catlords get some ability to transform? Maybe taking five levels of catlord would make senes with the level of shadowdancer. From prior discussion, it seems like the main advantage of going fulltime shadowdancer is the shadowfriend, though I think shadowjumping may be underrated. With a high Use Magic Device skill check, you could shadow jump across the room and fire a wand of fireballs at a beasty, maybe even with sneak attack.
LGMoses 02-06-07, 07:13 PM	KITTIES!!!:bounce:
myshkingfh 02-07-07, 11:46 AM	KITTIES!!!:bounce: You know, if you had a female cat lord, she'd be a cat lady. Just sayin' I'm not sure i see a lot of value in going catlord, if duckblade is available. I don't have a lot of experience with high level characters, but this dude will be extremely good at hiding just based on skill points and racial bonus. But you're way behind in how hard you hit things, because with rogue 4 you only do +2d6 in sneak attack damage. If duskblade becomes legal, I think that might be the perfect way to go with this dude, especially when you get the power of channeling magic through a weapon. With one level of shadowdancer, the +2d6 of sneak attack, and the spells through duskblade you could hide in plain sight, take your AoOs with your spiked chain, cast spells through the chain and add your sneak attack damage. Plus, you would have the spells and BAB of a duskblade to hurt things that you can't sneak attack. So, that would be r4/f2/div1/sd1/db5. Duskblade doesn't even get second level spells until db5 I believe. The spell progression is really really slow. Cat Lord gives the same BAB+ as duskblade (fighter progression), but has better skills and skill points. The spell power difference between duskblade 1 and duskblade 4 seems really minor, and I don't think it's worth taking several levels in it. Plus, taking one level of Cat Lord and one level of Duskblade results in (iirc) reflex +2, Fortitude +4, Will +2, taking two levels of Duskblade results in Reflex +0, Fortitude +3, Will +3. Don't catlords get some ability to transform? Nope, they just really really like cats. They get some skill bonuses, some animal handling bonuses and they can summon Dire Lions at level 5 or so. Catlord's only good for the good saves, the good BAB and the good skills. With a high Use Magic Device skill check, you could shadow jump across the room and fire a wand of fireballs at a beasty, maybe even with sneak attack. I don't need a use magic device skill check because of my level of diviner. Going full on rogue doesn't seem like a great choice, based on other discussions on this board that indicate that higher APL monsters are hard to sneak attack. I don't see much reason to go full rogue to finish and not nightsong enforcer. I'm interested in this child of the knight thing, but I don't have tome of magic. Is there any thought that much of tome of magic will be standardized?
UMiskatonic 02-07-07, 12:05 PM	The other HUGE ability of shadowdancer is darkvision, which you don't need as a deep halfling. For a rogue whose already got evasion, I say its a one level class. Remember not to weaken your BAB too much, you have a lot of +0 Bab levels already. I'd go with Nightsong Enforcer from here out. Your hide skill will be fine, you don't need Catlord's bonuses overly much.
myshkingfh 02-07-07, 12:44 PM	The cat lord and duskblade are both +1 to attack at first level, so either way the BAB wouldn't suffer, but yeah, for me, shadowdancer level 2 is not good. Shadowdancer level 3 though, gives the shadowbuddy which has been described as "broken." So , I'd have to suffer through SD 2 to get the SD 3. Nightsong enforcer's BAB and continuing sneak attack are good though, so it might end up being something like 1. rogue 2. diviner 3. fighter 4. rogue 5. rogue 6. rogue 7. fighter 8. shadowdancer 9. duskblade 10. cat lord 11. nightsong enforcer 12. cat lord 13. rogue...
myshkingfh 02-08-07, 01:42 AM	So, Duskblade didn't make the cut... Archwolf suggested Ranger in its place. Back to the drawing board I guess...
myshkingfh 02-08-07, 03:35 PM	Okay, I think I might not go beyond prc 2 in anything... 8 - shadowdancer (hide in plain sight) 9 - Nightsong Enforcer (+2ref, +1d6 sneak attack +1bab) 10 - Ranger (+2 ref, +2 for, +1bab favored enemy, track) 11 - cat lord (+2 ref, +2 for, +1bab) 12 - cat lord (+1ref, +1 for, +1bab, +4 hide) 13 - exemplar? 14 - exotic weapon master? 15 - ? 16 - ?