Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ornsjach 08-04-07, 04:31 PM	I'm trying to build a Valkyrie like Char for LG and well... every thing i have tried come up a bust right down to the abillity scores. the scores i have now are 15str,13dex,14con,wis12,10int,12cha. My main idea is a Paladin like char that serves Kord(Kord is the closest LG god to Odin so its only natural to have her serve him problem being he is CG and pallys are LG) so i think ill have her take a lvl or two of fighter then progress to holy liberator the first 4 feats I prefer for her are, exotic weapon proficiency(bastard sword) ,dodge ,mobiliy, spring attack if anyone has some sugesstions plz post them im sure that thay will be a big help thanks in advance, ornsjach
Jay_Ibero_911 08-04-07, 05:00 PM	I'm trying to build a Valkyrie like Char for LG and well... every thing i have tried come up a bust right down to the abillity scores. the scores i have now are 15str,13dex,14con,wis12,10int,12cha. My main idea is a Paladin like char that serves Kord(Kord is the closest LG god to Odin so its only natural to have her serve him problem being he is CG and pallys are LG) so i think ill have her take a lvl or two of fighter then progress to holy liberator the first 4 feats I prefer for her are, exotic weapon proficiency(bastard sword) ,dodge ,mobiliy, spring attack if anyone has some sugesstions plz psot them im sure that thay will be a big help thanks in advance, ornsjach Well first of all you have one too many points in your pointbuy, so you have to drop some stat by 1. Holy Liberator is a solid class. Spring Attack however is a very subobtimal form of combat, and in most cases bastard sword proficiency is a waste of a feat. One possible idea is to do a half-elf Marshal/Barbarian/Holy Liberator/Outcast Champion, perhaps with exotic weapon master in there if you are really attached to the bastard sword. Something like this: Race:Half-Elf Alignment:Chaotic Good STR-15 (8) DEX-12 (4) CON-14 (6) INT-8 (0) WIS-12 (4) CHA-14 (6) Lv1(Marshal)Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Power Attack Lv2(Marshal) Lv3(Barbarian)Extra Rage Lv4(Fighter)Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), +1 STR Lv5(Fighter)Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword) Lv6(Outcast Champion)Iron Will Lv7(Holy Liberator) Lv8(Exotic Weapon Master)+1 STR Lv9(Holy Liberator)Feat Lv10(Holy Liberator) Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12(Outcast Champion)Feat, +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion)Feat Gives a good ammount of charisma synergy, and average melee power. Not sure if you care much about being a Half-Elf though.
Banor 08-04-07, 06:25 PM	Personnally I love Marshal/Holy Liberator/Outcast Champ combo. Its definatly worth being a Half-Elf. The Desperate Fury and its shared version are fitting the concept pretty good too. Jay_Ibero's build is solid. I'm not a fan of the Bastard sword tho. Greatsword would be a better alternative and it saves you a feat. If you absolutly want to stick with it I guess that entering Exotic Weapon Master is a must. Most important thing is to stay away from the Spring attack line. Leave that to Scouts :)
ornsjach 08-04-07, 08:19 PM	not bad though there are problems I dont have the book for the Marshal and as such can not use the class about spring attack your probably right now that i think of it its more of an elvish/light armor class line also i have fixed my abillity scores. the score/armor combos i have now are i have ether15str,12dex,14con,wis12,8int,14cha with battle plate or 12str,15dex,14con,wis12,8int,14cha with mithral or wild wood full plate and racial weapon feat to get elven court blade and elven thinblade also will get weapon finess too. also there is a rule question i have if a Paladin multiclasses then stops being lawful say to get into holy liberator would she lose her Paladin abilitys?
Jay_Ibero_911 08-04-07, 08:34 PM	not bad though there are problems I dont have the book for the Marshal and as such can not use the class about spring attack your probably right now that i think of it its more of an elvish/light armor class line also i have fixed my abillity scores. the score/armor combos i have now are i have ether15str,12dex,14con,wis12,8int,14cha with battle plate or 12str,15dex,14con,wis12,8int,14cha with mithral or wild wood full plate and racial weapon feat to get elven court blade and elven thinblade also will get weapon finess too. also there is a rule question i have if a Paladin multiclasses then stops being lawful say to get into holy liberator would she lose her Paladin abilitys? Yes, if you stop being lawful you lose all paladin abilities.
Banor 08-04-07, 08:51 PM	Holy Liberator has some tradeoff bonus (kinda like a Paladin going to blackguard) if you were a former paladin
ornsjach 08-04-07, 09:48 PM	heh eh might as well go fighter with a lvl of barbarian I like the half-elf idea note i can easly get into a meta-org to get Access to the Elven Courtblade and Elven thinblade ( just in case the guards take away my courtblade mostly in grayhawk city) my current favored build is: half-elf stats:12str,15dex,14con,wis12,8int,14cha Lv1 (Fighter)Skill Focus (Diplomacy) weapon finesse Lv2(Fighter)Improved weapon familiarity Lv3(Barbarian)Extra Rage Lv4(Fighter) +1 STR Lv5(Fighter)power atack Lv6(Outcast Champion)Iron Will Lv7(Holy Liberator) Lv8(Holy Liberator)+1 DEX Lv9(Holy Liberator)Extend Rage Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12(Outcast Champion)Armor Specialization full plate, +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion)exta smiting or extra rage any advice will be welcomed thanks in advance ornsjach
Jay_Ibero_911 08-04-07, 09:53 PM	Holy Liberator has some tradeoff bonus (kinda like a Paladin going to blackguard) if you were a former paladin Well yeah, they stack for caster level and for smite evil damage...but that's it...
Banor 08-04-07, 10:04 PM	had in mind that it was a bit much than that but yea. For the build, I guess that the Skill Focus (Diplo) is a leftover of the previous Marshal level :) Extended Rage isnt worth it imo. As it stand you will be raging for 7 rounds without it, its much more than any LG combat you will ever see. Not too sure what you could get instead but you might maybe look for some tactical feats.
ornsjach 08-04-07, 10:35 PM	should I drop Skill Focus (Diplomacy)? if so i'll use that slot to get Iron Will and pick up Instantaneous Rage at lvl 6 as for Extended Rage that more for boss type fights (like the dragon who killed my barbarain/fighter right after my rage ended 9th round:( ) just in case I think i'll play it safe, mostly because our writers like to kill PC in fact I swear thay keep a kill count on there wall
ornsjach 08-05-07, 12:42 AM	my revised favored build is: half-elf stats:12str,15dex,14con,wis12,8int,14cha reason for the change: needed the skill points for the PrC Lv1 (Swashbuckler) Iron Will Lv2(Fighter)Improved weapon familiarity Lv3(Barbarian)Extra Rage Lv4(Barbarian)+1 STR Lv5(Fighter)power atack Lv6(Outcast Champion) Instantaneous Rage Lv7(Holy Liberator) Lv8(Holy Liberator)+1 DEX Lv9(Holy Liberator) extra smite or Intimidating Rage or Intimidating Strike Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12(Outcast Champion)Armor Specialization full plate, +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion)Extra Rage or extra smite any advice will be welcomed thanks in advance ornsjach
Jay_Ibero_911 08-05-07, 10:43 AM	my revised favored build is: half-elf stats:12str,15dex,14con,wis12,8int,14cha reason for the change: needed the skill points for the PrC Lv1 (Swashbuckler) Iron Will Lv2(Fighter)Improved weapon familiarity Lv3(Barbarian)Extra Rage Lv4(Barbarian)+1 STR Lv5(Fighter)power atack Lv6(Outcast Champion) Instantaneous Rage Lv7(Holy Liberator) Lv8(Holy Liberator)+1 DEX Lv9(Holy Liberator) extra smite or Intimidating Rage or Intimidating Strike Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12(Outcast Champion)Armor Specialization full plate, +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion)Extra Rage or extra smite any advice will be welcomed thanks in advance ornsjach Instantaneous Rage is a waste of a feat. All it will do is make you easier to hit. The extra HP doesn't matter unless it the attack would have dropped you otherwise, which is unlikely if you are at full HP, which you most likely are at the start of any combat. You can just wait for your turn and rage as a free action then. If you are going for Armor Specialization (Full PLate), then your dex won't help much. So you should swap STR and Dex in your initial Point buy, and put all 3 stat boosts into str. You can always invest in gloves of dex +2 to max out mithral full plate AC. Out of your 3 level 9 feats, Intimidating Rage is best because it doesn't use an action. Extra smite isn't so great because you only have smite evil, and the attack and damage bonus is so small as to not be that worth it.
ornsjach 08-05-07, 11:22 AM	ok so this is what it looks like now half-elf stats:15str,12dex,14con,wis12,8int,14cha Lv1 (Swashbuckler) Iron Will (sadly Weapon finesse will be usless but i need the class skills and skill points) Lv2(Fighter)Improved weapon familiarity Lv3(Barbarian)Extra Rage Lv4(Barbarian)+1 STR Lv5(Fighter) power attack Lv6(Outcast Champion) Power Critial Lv7(Holy Liberator) Lv8(Holy Liberator)+1 STR Lv9(Holy Liberator) Improved Critial (Elven courtblade) Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12(Outcast Champion)Armor Specialization full plate, +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion) Intimidating Rage any sugestions will be welcome ,thanks
ornsjach 08-07-07, 08:06 PM	ok i finaly gave in to my group and got the MHB and DANG the marshal is good for this build, too good infact! so here it is my near final build. ok so this is what it looks like now half-elf stats:15str,12dex,14con,wis12,8int,14cha Lv1 (marshal) Iron Will, Skill focus (Diplomacy) Lv2(Fighter)Improved weapon familiarity Lv3(Barbarian)Extra Rage Lv4(Barbarian)+1 STR Lv5(Fighter) power attack Lv6(Outcast Champion) Power Critial Lv7(Holy Liberator) Lv8(Holy Liberator)+1 STR Lv9(Holy Liberator) Improved Critial (Elven courtblade) Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12(Outcast Champion)Armor Specialization full plate, +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion) Intimidating Rage oppen to sugestions and tell me what you think.
Jay_Ibero_911 08-07-07, 11:11 PM	ok i finaly gave in to my group and got the MHB and DANG the marshal is good for this build, too good infact! so here it is my near final build. ok so this is what it looks like now half-elf stats:15str,12dex,14con,wis12,8int,14cha Lv1 (marshal) Iron Will, Skill focus (Diplomacy) Lv2(Fighter)Improved weapon familiarity Lv3(Barbarian)Extra Rage Lv4(Barbarian)+1 STR Lv5(Fighter) power attack Lv6(Outcast Champion) Power Critial Lv7(Holy Liberator) Lv8(Holy Liberator)+1 STR Lv9(Holy Liberator) Improved Critial (Elven courtblade) Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12(Outcast Champion)Armor Specialization full plate, +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion) Intimidating Rage oppen to sugestions and tell me what you think. Drop the second barbarian level for a second marshal level to get a major aura, specifically Motivate Attack to make up for the lost bab from marshal 1, as well as boosting the rest of the party.
ornsjach 08-08-07, 12:36 AM	ok so this is what it looks like now half-elf stats:15str,12dex,14con,wis12,8int,14cha Lv1 (marshal) Iron Will, Skill focus (Diplomacy) Lv2(Fighter)Improved weapon familiarity Lv3(Barbarian)Extra Rage Lv4(marshal)+1 STR Lv5(Fighter) power attack Lv6(Outcast Champion) Power Critial Lv7(Holy Liberator) Lv8(Holy Liberator)+1 STR Lv9(Holy Liberator) Improved Critial (Elven courtblade) Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12(Outcast Champion)Armor Specialization full plate, +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion) Intimidating Rage any thing else?
Eric Anondson 08-08-07, 01:49 AM	ok i finaly gave in to my group and got the MHB and DANG the marshal is good for this build, too good infact!I wish I came upon this thread earlier, I could have pointed you to the marshal base class excerpt (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b).
Mommy was an Orc 08-08-07, 02:18 PM	I'd make the following changes: 1: Barbarian 1: Extra Rage 2: Marshal 1: Skill Focus(Diplomacy) 3: Fighter 1: Power Attack, Intimidating Rage 4: Marshal 2 5: Fighter 2: WF: Falchion(necessary for Power Critical) 6: Outcast Champion 1: Iron Will 7: Outcast Champion 2 8: Holy Liberator 1 9: Holy Liberator 2: Improved Critical 10: Holy Liberator 3 11: Holy Liberator 4 12: Outcast Champion 3: Power Critical 13: Outcast Champion 4 14: Outcast Champion 5 15: Marshal 3: ? Logic: Wield a Falchion or Greatsword - the difference for you from a Falchion to a Courtblade is an average of 0.5 damage per swing. That's not worth a feat. I'd probably go with a Greatsword in any case on general principle given who your deity is, but Falchion preserves the critical hits you're interested in. Barbarian at 1st - you get a benefit of 2 permanent hit points - if you don't like your skill choices, retrain once or twice at 2nd and 3rd. Would you buy a magic item for 500 gold that gave you 2 permanent hit points? Not to mention, you're able to get Intimidating Rage at 3rd, which should be pretty amazing - 14 Charisma+5 ranks in Bluff+6 ranks in Intimidate = +10. A 7 HD monster with a 10 Wisdom is only a +7(i.e. odds are you make someone shaken for the entire combat at APL 4 most of the time at 3rd level) 2 levels of Outcast Champion - this immediately gives you probably 3 strikes a day that are at +3 to hit and +2d6 damage. The equivalent of Smite and Extra Smite instead of Smite Evil. And it will go up as you get better equipment. ok so this is what it looks like now half-elf stats:15str,12dex,14con,wis12,8int,14cha Lv1 (marshal) Iron Will, Skill focus (Diplomacy) Lv2(Fighter)Improved weapon familiarity Lv3(Barbarian)Extra Rage Lv4(marshal)+1 STR Lv5(Fighter) power attack Lv6(Outcast Champion) Power Critial Lv7(Holy Liberator) Lv8(Holy Liberator)+1 STR Lv9(Holy Liberator) Improved Critial (Elven courtblade) Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12(Outcast Champion)Armor Specialization full plate, +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion) Intimidating Rage any thing else?
ornsjach 08-08-07, 03:16 PM	i'll probably go greatsword better damage capability at the cost of 1 point crit range. as for the rest of the build fix ,oh ya its soo on great job to all of you oh and any last minute twik ideas please post them thanks in advance ornsjach P.S. what were some of the issues so i can avoid them in other builds
ornsjach 08-15-07, 09:48 PM	half-elf stats: 15str, 12dex, 14con, wis12, 8int, 14cha ok heres what i got now Lv1(Barbarian) Extra Rage Lv2(Fighter) Intimidating Rage Lv3 (Marshal) Iron Will skill focus (diplomacy) Lv4(Marshal)+1 STR Lv5(Fighter) WF greatsword Lv6(Outcast Champion) power attack Lv7(Outcast Champion) Lv8(Holy Liberator)+1 STR Lv9(Holy Liberator) Improved Critical (Greatsword ) Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12 (Holy Liberator) Armor Specialization full plate, +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion) Power Critical any last changes you can think of that i need post them please if no changes are needed ill use this as my final build. thanks in advance, ornsjach
Jay_Ibero_911 08-15-07, 10:12 PM	half-elf stats: 15str, 12dex, 14con, wis12, 8int, 14cha ok heres what i got now Lv1(Barbarian) Extra Rage Lv2(Fighter) Intimidating Rage Lv3 (Marshal) Iron Will skill focus (diplomacy) Lv4(Marshal)+1 STR Lv5(Fighter) WF greatsword Lv6(Outcast Champion) power attack Lv7(Outcast Champion) Lv8(Holy Liberator)+1 STR Lv9(Holy Liberator) Improved Critical (Greatsword ) Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12 (Holy Liberator) Armor Specialization full plate, +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion) Power Critical any last changes you can think of that i need post them please if no changes are needed ill use this as my final build. thanks in advance, ornsjach Intimidating Rage is not a fighter bonus feat, so you may want to swap the placement of it and power attack. And you may want to consider the 2 levels of marshal first, then barbarian, that way you have better skill options at 1st level (yes, you'll have the same number of skill points, but Marshals have more useful class skills). Then move barbarian and extra rage to 3rd.
ornsjach 08-15-07, 10:37 PM	heh good points so is this any better? Lv1 (Marshal) Iron Will skill focus (diplomacy) Lv2(Marshal) Lv3 (Barbarian) Extra Rage Lv4(Fighter) power attack +1 STR Lv5(Fighter) WF greatsword Lv6(Outcast Champion)Intimidating Rage Lv7(Outcast Champion) Lv8(Holy Liberator)+1 STR Lv9(Holy Liberator) Improved Critical (Greatsword ) Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12 (Holy Liberator) Armor Specialization full plate, +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion) Power Critical
Jay_Ibero_911 08-16-07, 06:34 PM	heh good points so is this any better? Lv1 (Marshal) Iron Will skill focus (diplomacy) Lv2(Marshal) Lv3 (Barbarian) Extra Rage Lv4(Fighter) power attack +1 STR Lv5(Fighter) WF greatsword Lv6(Outcast Champion)Intimidating Rage Lv7(Outcast Champion) Lv8(Holy Liberator)+1 STR Lv9(Holy Liberator) Improved Critical (Greatsword ) Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12 (Holy Liberator) Armor Specialization full plate, +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion) Power Critical There you go. Looks pretty solid to me
ornsjach 08-16-07, 11:44 PM	ya but i just read a article that stats Armor Specialization heavy armor wont work with mithral so i think ill move power crit up and add cleave at lvl 15 so it would be half-elf stats: 15str, 12dex, 14con, wis12, 8int, 14cha Lv1(Barbarian) or (Marshal) skill focus (diplomacy) minor aura (accurate strike) Iron Will Lv2(Marshal) major aura attack Lv3 (Barbarian) or (Marshal) Extra Rage Lv4(Fighter) power attack +1 STR Lv5(Fighter) WF greatsword Lv6(Outcast Champion)Intimidating Rage Lv7(Outcast Champion) Lv8(Holy Liberator) Power Critical +1 STR Lv9(Holy Liberator) Improved Critical (Greatsword ) Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12 (Holy Liberator), +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion) cleave PS thanks for all the help note the 1st/3rd lvl classes will depend on what my group needs more
Jay_Ibero_911 08-17-07, 09:34 AM	ya but i just read a article that stats Armor Specialization heavy armor wont work with mithral so i think ill move power crit up and add cleave at lvl 15 so it would be half-elf stats: 15str, 12dex, 14con, wis12, 8int, 14cha Lv1(Barbarian) or (Marshal) skill focus (diplomacy) minor aura (accurate strike) Iron Will Lv2(Marshal) major aura attack Lv3 (Barbarian) or (Marshal) Extra Rage Lv4(Fighter) power attack +1 STR Lv5(Fighter) WF greatsword Lv6(Outcast Champion)Intimidating Rage Lv7(Outcast Champion) Lv8(Holy Liberator) Power Critical +1 STR Lv9(Holy Liberator) Improved Critical (Greatsword ) Lv11(Holy Liberator) Lv12 (Holy Liberator), +1 STR Lv13(Outcast Champion) Lv14(Outcast Champion) Lv15(Outcast Champion) cleave PS thanks for all the help note the 1st/3rd lvl classes will depend on what my group needs more Armor Specialization works just fine with mithral full plate, as it is still medium armor at that point, and armor specialization works with any medium or heavy armor. It's Heavy Armor Optimization that doesn't work with mithral full plate.
ornsjach 08-17-07, 04:19 PM	heh then the writer must have put the wrong feat in. goodby cleave helo Armor Specialization at 12 and power crit at 15
Jay_Ibero_911 08-17-07, 07:36 PM	heh then the writer must have put the wrong feat in. goodby cleave helo Armor Specialization at 12 and power crit at 15 Where was this article? If it's not in the FAQ or errata, then it doesn't apply to LG.
ornsjach 08-17-07, 08:03 PM	dragon about 2 months ago
Jay_Ibero_911 08-17-07, 08:06 PM	dragon about 2 months ago Ah, well don't worry about anything you read in there. It's not official as far as the campaign is concerned.
honeyko 08-19-07, 09:30 PM	My main idea is a Paladin like char that serves Kord(Kord is the closest LG god to Odin so its only natural to have her serve him problem being he is CG and pallys are LG) so i think ill have her take a lvl or two of fighter then progress to holy liberatorTwo words: Pious Templar. human (female) STR:15 8 DEX:14 6 CON:14 6 INT: 8 WIS:14 6 CHA:10 2 0. base: 2 2 2 2 1. barb1 1 2 0 0 Extra Rage, Reckless Rage 2. cler1 1 4 0 2 1st, Kord:Strength/Luck -or- Nobility 3. figh1 2 6 0 2 Power Attack, Mad Foam Rager 4. figh2 3 7 0 2 STR>16, Cleave...or any useful FEAT(F) 5. figh3 4 7 1 3 .... 6. figh4 5 8 1 3 True Believer, WF:Greatsword 7. temp1 6 10 2 5 Mettle 8. temp2 7 11 2 6 smite 1/day 9. temp3 8 11 3 6 DR1/-, WS:Greatsword, MWM:Slashing 10 temp4 9 12 3 7 ...retrain Cleave to ImpBullRush, Shock Trooper 11 temp5 ....etc Concept: lightly-armored or no-armored Amazon warrior who full-BAB 2hPAs with greatsword or reach-weapon (preferably while Enlarged). Damage is very high, especially if Keen acquired.