Any no-brainer Cleric strategies? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Any no-brainer Cleric strategies? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ki Ryn
10-11-06, 04:30 PM I'm a veteran 3.5 D&D player but brand new to Living Greyhawk and the RPGA.

I like to play clerics and I figure it is a good way to make sure that there is always a decent healer at whatever table I sit down at. After reading these and other forums, I'm a little concerned that I might make an ineffective character because I haven't studied all of the possible feat and PrC combos.

For example, I don't know what a Pious Templar is and though I've read the WeaponMaster PrC, I doubt I would think to take just one level in it in order to optimize some warrior type build. Anyway, for damage dealing, it seems that there are a handful of proven strategies for high damage output (dwarf, two war axes, blah blah blah). Are there proven builds for clerics as well?

I want an independent character that can do damage and heal damage. He doesn't have to have the most hit points or be the absolute best, but I want him to be able to fill a fighting role respectably and a healing role when needed. I was figuring I'd use two-weapon fighting and a quarterstaff with Spikes cast on it. Then I found out about the duration nerf. I figured at level 3 I would take Augment Healing and then probably Power Attack at 6. Are there better routes to achieve what I'm after?

As an aside, the character is a wood elf and so proficient with sword and bow, if that helps. I still might do the TWF thing if I can't find a better option, but any advice is greatly appreciated.
clik_ml
10-11-06, 05:35 PM Clerics are versatile and depending upon race,domain,skill and feat selection, they can do just about anything... multiple party roles even.

Clerics can reliably get a very high AC with little effort, and make super item crafters (due to their huge range of spells known). Thus craft wonderous items is a no-brainer feat for them. Craft Arms and Armor is a good feat if you are intending to make a battle cleric also. The more money you save, the higher your numbers go. Also there is much to be said for getting exactly what you want, when you want it.

Many folks will rave about scribe scroll or divine spell power (burn a turning attempt to use turn check result as new caster level for next spell). They can be very useful feats, especially divine spell power when you want to be layering on many self-buffs.

Spells that your party will always thank you for prepping:
4: Delay Death
5: Righteous Wrath of the Faithful
6: Heroes' Feast

Spells that will turn you into a melee machine (either offensively, defensively or both):
1: Divine Favor, Shield of Faith
2: Bull's Str, Brambles
3: Magic Vestment
4: Divine Power (replaces bull's str), Greater Magic Weapon
5: Righteous Might

Quicken Spell and Divine Quicken spell can enable you to throw on many buffs quickly (4 in 2 rounds is the most you'll really ever need, often 2 in 1 round will do the trick).

Power Attack is useful for dealing lots of damage. Combat Expertise will make your AC dominant even without buffs. You have all the options in the world available to you as a cleric pretty much.

For builds, you don't even need anything fancy. 15 Cleric will get you where you need to be. I am often reluctant to burn a feat for PrC entry for clerics, since they are already so awesome and are short enough on feats as it is. Radiant Servant is an exception since the pre-req feat is useful anyway for certain builds, and the prestige class is all gravy.

All you have to do is keep your caster level at maximum
and allocate stats per what you wanna do:

base 14 con for any build,
14 str for melee, only go higher if you have something specific in mind, like a cleric grappler (a cleric grappler can be tussling around with the best of them after applying just 2 buffs-divine power and righteous might)
14 or 15 dex if TWFing,
14 wis if strained on multiple stat dependency otherwise a 15 will do ya. Only consider higher if you intend to cast many offensive spells with saving throws (not the best option for a cleric really)
12-14 int if combat expertise is a goal or if you have a pathological need to possess skills (I have this weakness)
14 cha if you want to be a divine quicken machine

You can get by through sacrificing one of either dex, int or cha, and having enough stats to do just about every other role on the list there. Racial selection makes a big difference.

I'll stress again that keeping caster levels at a maximum is important. You should only deviate from this if you really know what you are doing and you want to sabotage yourself (with a cleric, self-sabotage in moderation can be both interesting and not that horrible. since you are already a bad ass it just brings you down to the level mortals play at).
Lupo
10-11-06, 07:22 PM I'm a veteran 3.5 D&D player but brand new to Living Greyhawk and the RPGA.

I like to play clerics and I figure it is a good way to make sure that there is always a decent healer at whatever table I sit down at. After reading these and other forums, I'm a little concerned that I might make an ineffective character because I haven't studied all of the possible feat and PrC combos.

For example, I don't know what a Pious Templar is and though I've read the WeaponMaster PrC, I doubt I would think to take just one level in it in order to optimize some warrior type build. Anyway, for damage dealing, it seems that there are a handful of proven strategies for high damage output (dwarf, two war axes, blah blah blah). Are there proven builds for clerics as well?

I want an independent character that can do damage and heal damage. He doesn't have to have the most hit points or be the absolute best, but I want him to be able to fill a fighting role respectably and a healing role when needed. I was figuring I'd use two-weapon fighting and a quarterstaff with Spikes cast on it. Then I found out about the duration nerf. I figured at level 3 I would take Augment Healing and then probably Power Attack at 6. Are there better routes to achieve what I'm after?

As an aside, the character is a wood elf and so proficient with sword and bow, if that helps. I still might do the TWF thing if I can't find a better option, but any advice is greatly appreciated.

a cleric ONLY dedicated to be a melee fighter is possible, but often invests too many into the role and therefore is not usefull at all in his other roles.

as a lg character - especcially a cleric - should be flexible, i would not advocate a dedicated single minded melee cleric.

take a carefull pick on your deity or better on your domains and than look what deity offers the combo you want.

consult the lg deities document for deities, domains and restrictions.

travel, luck, war, and destruction domain are among the first choices (PHB only, there are some more in splat books) for a melee cleric.

with a melee cleric you want a good weapon, that is the reason a lot melee clerics take kelanen or kord (war domain) and a greatsword.

but even some of the simple weapons are good enough, like heavy mace and longspear. and later on, the dices are most often only the icing on the cake damagewise.

or start as an elf with longsword and longbow proficiency.

as a melee cleric i would take craft arms and armour AND craft wonderous items.

that leaves you with the feats for first level, maybe the human bonus feat and third level. as sixt and ninth should be the crafting feats, in any order you like and access makes best suited.

you definitely want power attack, and weapon focus so actually all that is unassigned is a possible human bonus feat till level 12.

consider domain spontaneity for level 12 IF you have the travel domain, or another domain with nice spells, that you normally can't get.

on the other hand, you hardly can mess up a standard melee cleric :)

st 14, dx anything from 8 to 12, co 14 (unless a dwarf or gnome), in anything from 8 to 13, wis 14 (15 and especcially 16 is too much for your other stats definitely), ch anything from 8 to 14 (even 12 and a cloak of charisma +2 gives you one divine metamagic quickened spell per day)

so everything depends on your exact build apart from the st 14, co 14 and wi 14.

expect to be frontliner from apl 2 to 8, after that you will more often be usefull as a secondary fighter, and the party might need you in the second row more dearly than in the frontline.

ciao

martin m.
Japangirl
10-12-06, 03:11 AM No brainer cleric is easy. Pick a god, pretty much any god. You have two domains, two domain abilities, and kick-ass spells. You will be loved and venerated by your party for your healing goodness (unless you're LN cleric of Wee Jas, in which case you spontaneously inflict lol). Some really good domains are Travel, Healing, Destiny, Luck, War, and Destruction. Of course that's not nearly all of them, just the ones I can think of offhand as being really good.

Oh, and if you live in the Bandit Kingdoms (Texas/Oklahoma), you might not want to pick St. Cuthbert, Zagyg, or Kelanen . . . Iuz really doesn't like those three.
UMiskatonic
10-12-06, 10:28 AM Yeah, just keep taking cleric levels. It's really hard to be a bad cleric, and even then, people will still want to have you around, because no cleric is usually worse.

Still, I've seen bad clerics. Here's what to avoid....

1) Multiclass yourself into oblivion. I played with a cleric2/wizard2/monk2 who described himself as 'versatile'. I would have said 'bad at everything'. When my fighter was taking 20-30 points of damage a round from enemy spellcasters, his offer of a CLW wasn't even enough to give me one more round of combat.

2) Convince yourself you are something else. I've also seen clerics throw down a searing light, and then charge with their greatsword. If that's the guy you want, be an eldritch knight.

3) Be totally unprepared. You CAN NOT tell your party "Oh, I wasn't anticipating anyone getting diseased". Have at least one scroll of all the fixit spells someone of your level could normally cast. Resurgence scrolls are also good, as are lesser restorations.

4) Never adjust. If you are playing with a bunch of rogues and wizards, YOU are the front line. Cast shield of faith, cast aid, and take your full plate to the head of the class. If everyone else is a fighter, you probably don't even need to get your weapon out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ki Ryn 10-11-06, 04:30 PM	I'm a veteran 3.5 D&D player but brand new to Living Greyhawk and the RPGA. I like to play clerics and I figure it is a good way to make sure that there is always a decent healer at whatever table I sit down at. After reading these and other forums, I'm a little concerned that I might make an ineffective character because I haven't studied all of the possible feat and PrC combos. For example, I don't know what a Pious Templar is and though I've read the WeaponMaster PrC, I doubt I would think to take just one level in it in order to optimize some warrior type build. Anyway, for damage dealing, it seems that there are a handful of proven strategies for high damage output (dwarf, two war axes, blah blah blah). Are there proven builds for clerics as well? I want an independent character that can do damage and heal damage. He doesn't have to have the most hit points or be the absolute best, but I want him to be able to fill a fighting role respectably and a healing role when needed. I was figuring I'd use two-weapon fighting and a quarterstaff with Spikes cast on it. Then I found out about the duration nerf. I figured at level 3 I would take Augment Healing and then probably Power Attack at 6. Are there better routes to achieve what I'm after? As an aside, the character is a wood elf and so proficient with sword and bow, if that helps. I still might do the TWF thing if I can't find a better option, but any advice is greatly appreciated.
clik_ml 10-11-06, 05:35 PM	Clerics are versatile and depending upon race,domain,skill and feat selection, they can do just about anything... multiple party roles even. Clerics can reliably get a very high AC with little effort, and make super item crafters (due to their huge range of spells known). Thus craft wonderous items is a no-brainer feat for them. Craft Arms and Armor is a good feat if you are intending to make a battle cleric also. The more money you save, the higher your numbers go. Also there is much to be said for getting exactly what you want, when you want it. Many folks will rave about scribe scroll or divine spell power (burn a turning attempt to use turn check result as new caster level for next spell). They can be very useful feats, especially divine spell power when you want to be layering on many self-buffs. Spells that your party will always thank you for prepping: 4: Delay Death 5: Righteous Wrath of the Faithful 6: Heroes' Feast Spells that will turn you into a melee machine (either offensively, defensively or both): 1: Divine Favor, Shield of Faith 2: Bull's Str, Brambles 3: Magic Vestment 4: Divine Power (replaces bull's str), Greater Magic Weapon 5: Righteous Might Quicken Spell and Divine Quicken spell can enable you to throw on many buffs quickly (4 in 2 rounds is the most you'll really ever need, often 2 in 1 round will do the trick). Power Attack is useful for dealing lots of damage. Combat Expertise will make your AC dominant even without buffs. You have all the options in the world available to you as a cleric pretty much. For builds, you don't even need anything fancy. 15 Cleric will get you where you need to be. I am often reluctant to burn a feat for PrC entry for clerics, since they are already so awesome and are short enough on feats as it is. Radiant Servant is an exception since the pre-req feat is useful anyway for certain builds, and the prestige class is all gravy. All you have to do is keep your caster level at maximum and allocate stats per what you wanna do: base 14 con for any build, 14 str for melee, only go higher if you have something specific in mind, like a cleric grappler (a cleric grappler can be tussling around with the best of them after applying just 2 buffs-divine power and righteous might) 14 or 15 dex if TWFing, 14 wis if strained on multiple stat dependency otherwise a 15 will do ya. Only consider higher if you intend to cast many offensive spells with saving throws (not the best option for a cleric really) 12-14 int if combat expertise is a goal or if you have a pathological need to possess skills (I have this weakness) 14 cha if you want to be a divine quicken machine You can get by through sacrificing one of either dex, int or cha, and having enough stats to do just about every other role on the list there. Racial selection makes a big difference. I'll stress again that keeping caster levels at a maximum is important. You should only deviate from this if you really know what you are doing and you want to sabotage yourself (with a cleric, self-sabotage in moderation can be both interesting and not that horrible. since you are already a bad ass it just brings you down to the level mortals play at).
Lupo 10-11-06, 07:22 PM	I'm a veteran 3.5 D&D player but brand new to Living Greyhawk and the RPGA. I like to play clerics and I figure it is a good way to make sure that there is always a decent healer at whatever table I sit down at. After reading these and other forums, I'm a little concerned that I might make an ineffective character because I haven't studied all of the possible feat and PrC combos. For example, I don't know what a Pious Templar is and though I've read the WeaponMaster PrC, I doubt I would think to take just one level in it in order to optimize some warrior type build. Anyway, for damage dealing, it seems that there are a handful of proven strategies for high damage output (dwarf, two war axes, blah blah blah). Are there proven builds for clerics as well? I want an independent character that can do damage and heal damage. He doesn't have to have the most hit points or be the absolute best, but I want him to be able to fill a fighting role respectably and a healing role when needed. I was figuring I'd use two-weapon fighting and a quarterstaff with Spikes cast on it. Then I found out about the duration nerf. I figured at level 3 I would take Augment Healing and then probably Power Attack at 6. Are there better routes to achieve what I'm after? As an aside, the character is a wood elf and so proficient with sword and bow, if that helps. I still might do the TWF thing if I can't find a better option, but any advice is greatly appreciated. a cleric ONLY dedicated to be a melee fighter is possible, but often invests too many into the role and therefore is not usefull at all in his other roles. as a lg character - especcially a cleric - should be flexible, i would not advocate a dedicated single minded melee cleric. take a carefull pick on your deity or better on your domains and than look what deity offers the combo you want. consult the lg deities document for deities, domains and restrictions. travel, luck, war, and destruction domain are among the first choices (PHB only, there are some more in splat books) for a melee cleric. with a melee cleric you want a good weapon, that is the reason a lot melee clerics take kelanen or kord (war domain) and a greatsword. but even some of the simple weapons are good enough, like heavy mace and longspear. and later on, the dices are most often only the icing on the cake damagewise. or start as an elf with longsword and longbow proficiency. as a melee cleric i would take craft arms and armour AND craft wonderous items. that leaves you with the feats for first level, maybe the human bonus feat and third level. as sixt and ninth should be the crafting feats, in any order you like and access makes best suited. you definitely want power attack, and weapon focus so actually all that is unassigned is a possible human bonus feat till level 12. consider domain spontaneity for level 12 IF you have the travel domain, or another domain with nice spells, that you normally can't get. on the other hand, you hardly can mess up a standard melee cleric :) st 14, dx anything from 8 to 12, co 14 (unless a dwarf or gnome), in anything from 8 to 13, wis 14 (15 and especcially 16 is too much for your other stats definitely), ch anything from 8 to 14 (even 12 and a cloak of charisma +2 gives you one divine metamagic quickened spell per day) so everything depends on your exact build apart from the st 14, co 14 and wi 14. expect to be frontliner from apl 2 to 8, after that you will more often be usefull as a secondary fighter, and the party might need you in the second row more dearly than in the frontline. ciao martin m.
Japangirl 10-12-06, 03:11 AM	No brainer cleric is easy. Pick a god, pretty much any god. You have two domains, two domain abilities, and kick-ass spells. You will be loved and venerated by your party for your healing goodness (unless you're LN cleric of Wee Jas, in which case you spontaneously inflict lol). Some really good domains are Travel, Healing, Destiny, Luck, War, and Destruction. Of course that's not nearly all of them, just the ones I can think of offhand as being really good. Oh, and if you live in the Bandit Kingdoms (Texas/Oklahoma), you might not want to pick St. Cuthbert, Zagyg, or Kelanen . . . Iuz really doesn't like those three.
UMiskatonic 10-12-06, 10:28 AM	Yeah, just keep taking cleric levels. It's really hard to be a bad cleric, and even then, people will still want to have you around, because no cleric is usually worse. Still, I've seen bad clerics. Here's what to avoid.... 1) Multiclass yourself into oblivion. I played with a cleric2/wizard2/monk2 who described himself as 'versatile'. I would have said 'bad at everything'. When my fighter was taking 20-30 points of damage a round from enemy spellcasters, his offer of a CLW wasn't even enough to give me one more round of combat. 2) Convince yourself you are something else. I've also seen clerics throw down a searing light, and then charge with their greatsword. If that's the guy you want, be an eldritch knight. 3) Be totally unprepared. You CAN NOT tell your party "Oh, I wasn't anticipating anyone getting diseased". Have at least one scroll of all the fixit spells someone of your level could normally cast. Resurgence scrolls are also good, as are lesser restorations. 4) Never adjust. If you are playing with a bunch of rogues and wizards, YOU are the front line. Cast shield of faith, cast aid, and take your full plate to the head of the class. If everyone else is a fighter, you probably don't even need to get your weapon out.