Arcane Archer (for a friend) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Arcane Archer (for a friend) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CrystalBlue
01-22-07, 07:42 PM I've got a friend that's trying to make an arcane archer. He wants to be a wood elf, goes wizard for three levels and then goes fighter for the rest. He wants to only really memorize his area effect spells for his imbue arrows and scribe scrolls of his buff spells. He'll pull scrolls at the beginning of combat or before and buff himself and then go in and use ranged attacks.

He wants to go wizard only because he doesn't have to eat the Scribe Scroll feat, because he still wants to scribe. He's also waiting on his spell casting, limiting himself to 2nd level spells, till the high-levels.

Tell me if this is a good/bad/ugly build.
Lomiat
01-22-07, 07:53 PM I've got a friend that's trying to make an arcane archer. He wants to be a wood elf, goes wizard for three levels and then goes fighter for the rest. He wants to only really memorize his area effect spells for his imbue arrows and scribe scrolls of his buff spells. He'll pull scrolls at the beginning of combat or before and buff himself and then go in and use ranged attacks.

He wants to go wizard only because he doesn't have to eat the Scribe Scroll feat, because he still wants to scribe. He's also waiting on his spell casting, limiting himself to 2nd level spells, till the high-levels.

Tell me if this is a good/bad/ugly build.

If he'll have fun playing it, let him build it himself. He'll be underpowered, though, and you might want to let him know that in advance.

Generally, unless you are slated to lose a lot of skill points (think: Rogue), you're better off playing your 1st level with the higher hit die.

After that, the Imbue Arrow ability isn't one of the Arcane Archer's stronger points. Versus a full volley, it loses damage. Versus pure spellcasting, it loses damage. I'd like to say it's more versatile than something, but it's really not.

Finally, it doesn't usually pay to make a character who intends to spend the first round or two of a combat buffing himself, especially if that character is an archer. Eventually, the combats just don't last more than 2 to 3 rounds, and the character design intends to take that character out of the combat for all but 1 of those rounds.

Nonetheless, those are the mechanical concerns. I helped one of my friends build an Arcane Archer, and I put together a Bard 3/Fighter 4. He hits well and does good damage, but the guy playing the PC is generally an outdoorsy, nature-loving guy and probably would have been happier if he'd had a Ranger 6/Wizard 1 archer. The mechanical differences are negligable.

If your friend wants to make a wizard who's really good with a bow, I'd recommend Wizard 8/Fighter 2 before going arcane archer. Or he could just make an elf wizard (already proficient in the bow) or sorcerer (if he's a wood elf) and let him shoot (he'll run out of spells early enough anyway!). If he likes the spellcasting, he can pursue that. If he likes the archery, he can pursue that. There's no wrong answer if he's happy with the character.
cycloptic_squirrel
01-22-07, 08:12 PM Personally, I'd go with the same character concept, but build-wise go the route of spellsword or eldrich knight. I'm not sure if arcane archer does much. But like Lomiat said, if he enjoys the thought of the prestige class, let him go for it.
Howie23
01-22-07, 09:59 PM I'm not sure if arcane archer does much.

I have a Rgr7/Wiz1/Arcane Archer 1. 'Twas my first LG character, and built it expecting it to work more like the NWN arcane does. Silly me.

It does have one thing going for it. The arrows are imbued as magical, which then are eligible to hit incorporeals. W/o, most archers are shooting magic bows, which suffer the same language as monk ki strike does wrt incorps: the arrow is magic for the purpose of overcoming DR only.

David
UMiskatonic
01-22-07, 10:32 PM I've seen Rng 2/Wizard 12 work very well. The point blank and precise shot feats which you would take anyway work very well for lining up your ray and orb spells, and Craft Arms and Armor does wonders for your ability to keep up with the fighters.

Those caster levels allow you to just MAKE +2 arrows. It's a more solid build, if you ask me.

If I were to go arcane archer, I might go with ranger/bard. Lots of skills, very versatile build.

REMEMBER: 16 strength is important, higher could even be worth it.
Mommy was an Orc
01-22-07, 11:30 PM I think there's 3 basic ways to go Arcane Archer:
Ranger 2/Hexblade 4/Arcane Archer 9
Bard 8/Arcane Archer 2/Sublime Chord 5
6 levels of +1 BAB/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 8

The first is nice because you never lose that BAB, but you don't exactly get great abilities for doing so. The 2nd works well, because then Imbue Arrow is a real threat. The last can be impressive because there's a few elven prestige classes not reliant on BAB.

Example:
Ranger 3/Fighter 1/Wizard 1/Wildrunner 2/Arcane Archer 8
Lomiat
01-22-07, 11:48 PM I think there's 3 basic ways to go Arcane Archer:
Ranger 2/Hexblade 4/Arcane Archer 9
Bard 8/Arcane Archer 2/Sublime Chord 5
6 levels of +1 BAB/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 8

The first is nice because you never lose that BAB, but you don't exactly get great abilities for doing so. The 2nd works well, because then Imbue Arrow is a real threat. The last can be impressive because there's a few elven prestige classes not reliant on BAB.

Example:
Ranger 3/Fighter 1/Wizard 1/Wildrunner 2/Arcane Archer 8

I might add Bard4/Fighter4/Arcane Archer7. Gets you to +4 arrows, plus Weapon Specialization, Bard song (give yourself +2 morale bonus to hit and damage), and some interesting bard spells you can imbue into arrows (not very often, though): Silence, Glitterdust, Sound Burst, Wave of Grief.

Mostly, though, you just shoot.

I like the Hexblade build, though. Maybe I'll try one someday...
Howie23
01-23-07, 12:33 AM I've got a friend that's trying to make an arcane archer.

Ok, at the risk of derailing a thread that I like...

"Uh...see..it's my friend. He's got this Legolas thing..and..um...."

"So, you're friend, as you call him..."

"Uh, yeah. He's thinking Arcane Archer. Now, _I_ know it's not a power build class. _I_ wouldn't build one...but, you know, my friend...."

"Yes. I understand. Let's talk about your friend, then...."

*wink*

David
viceregal
01-23-07, 01:38 AM I have a Rgr7/Wiz1/Arcane Archer 1. 'Twas my first LG character, and built it expecting it to work more like the NWN arcane does. Silly me.

It does have one thing going for it. The arrows are imbued as magical, which then are eligible to hit incorporeals. W/o, most archers are shooting magic bows, which suffer the same language as monk ki strike does wrt incorps: the arrow is magic for the purpose of overcoming DR only.

David

I believe they FAQ'ed that one to let archer's magic bows work fine with mundane arrows vs incorps didn't they? Monks got left out of the loop (and yes the wording is awfully familiar) but the archers didn't have to buy magical arrows at all!
CrystalBlue
01-23-07, 08:55 AM Nuuuuu...it really is for a friend. Trust me. I've made too many threads on this board for just me. He doesn't have the internet ATM, so I posted it for him.

Like I said above, he wants to try and be versitile. It's hard to understand what he really wants from listening to him. But I think I have the basic jist of what he's trying to accomplish.

He likes the arcane archer concept. Not so much the PrC, but the concept of having magical arrows and imbueing AoE spells into them. Then I tell him his fireball is Long range (way beyond his bow) and his magic arrows don't stack with a magic bow. Then he says, "Oh...oh...ohhhhh...." Yeah...he didn't know how nerfed the PrC really was.

Here are the things he wants about the casting and the attacking at the same time. From this, maybe you could recommend a race/class/stats/feats for him.

-) He wants to buff himself up. A lot. He's looked in the Spell Compendium and likes the Arrow Mind spell and the one swift spell that adds +2 to all of your ranged attacks. He'd also like to try and cast True Strike at the same time with Arrow Mind to maximize the potential.
-) He prefered wizard over sorcerer purely because of getting Scribe Scroll as a free feat. He said that way, he wouldn't have to drop a feat on it, as he does want to scribe scrolls to maximize his casting. Which I commended. But the way he was going with his stats, he'd only have a 12 Int, which I nixed and told him wouldn't work.
-) He wants to be the main ranged of the party. I told him a mix of fighter and ranger would get him the feats and ability that he wanted. I don't know if he was going to take it or not. He was iffy on too much fighter, but insisted on only going so many levels of wizard. I questioned that a lot. :P

My theory? I'd want him to go a mix of ranger/sorcerer or ranger/warmage. I don't know about the warmage much, cause he'll have a sub-par int. I would go...

Ranger 2/Sorcerer 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword X
This would get him the casting he needs and give him the ranged fighting he wants. How does this look?
LachlarlanIII
01-23-07, 10:26 AM I have a Rgr7/Wiz1/Arcane Archer 1. 'Twas my first LG character, and built it expecting it to work more like the NWN arcane does. Silly me.

It does have one thing going for it. The arrows are imbued as magical, which then are eligible to hit incorporeals. W/o, most archers are shooting magic bows, which suffer the same language as monk ki strike does wrt incorps: the arrow is magic for the purpose of overcoming DR only.

David

This is incorrect unless the ability has been errata'd or FAQ'd.

From the SRD:

Enhance Arrow (Su): At 1st level, every nonmagical arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus. Unlike magic weapons created by normal means, the archer need not spend experience points or gold pieces to accomplish this task. However, an archer’s magic arrows only function for her. For every two levels the character advances past 1st level in the prestige class, the magic arrows she creates gain +1 greater potency (+1 at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level, +3 at 5th level, +4 at 7th level, and +5 at 9th level).

As you can see, the ability states nothing about the arrows becoming magical for the purposes of only overcoming DR.
LachlarlanIII
01-23-07, 10:28 AM Ranger 2/Sorcerer 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword X
This would get him the casting he needs and give him the ranged fighting he wants. How does this look?

Hexblade 4/Ranger 2 also gets him the needed spellcasting without losing BAB. It also adds Mettle and Arcane Resistance.
Mommy was an Orc
01-23-07, 10:30 AM Ranger 2/Sorcerer 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword X
This would get him the casting he needs and give him the ranged fighting he wants. How does this look?

The problem with doing that is he drops those 2 BAB so fast. As an archer, his concern is damage and Sorcerer won't really make up for that. At higher levels, archers don't miss, because they can't put anything into Power Attack and they usually have a superhigh attack score - and if they do miss, they usually get +4 to attack.

If I were going to go that route, I'd go Bard instead of Sorcerer - Bard 4 means you can Inspire Courage, which works amazingly well with archery. The Bard 8/Arcane Archer 2/Sublime Chord 5 build I mentioned is extremely effective because of that - he does Inspire Courage on round 1, adding +2 to hit/damage after hitting 3rd level. As a Wood Elf, he's proficient with a longbow and can easily have the 16 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 10 Int, 8 Wis, 14 Cha. His skill points all get eaten up by Sublime Chord prereqs, but then he has actual area affect spells to toss with it.

Bards make pretty efficient archers if you build them for it.
Howie23
01-23-07, 10:32 AM This is incorrect unless the ability has been errata'd or FAQ'd.

From the SRD:

Enhance Arrow (Su): At 1st level, every nonmagical arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus. Unlike magic weapons created by normal means, the archer need not spend experience points or gold pieces to accomplish this task. However, an archer’s magic arrows only function for her. For every two levels the character advances past 1st level in the prestige class, the magic arrows she creates gain +1 greater potency (+1 at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level, +3 at 5th level, +4 at 7th level, and +5 at 9th level).

As you can see, the ability states nothing about the arrows becoming magical for the purposes of only overcoming DR.

You are quoting the Arcane Archer Enhancement, correct? That is exactly my point, that the Arcane Archer does overcome incorp miss, while normal arrow fired from a magical bow by a non-arcane archer does not.
Alpha_Nerd
01-23-07, 10:39 AM You can use Arcane Strike on Ranged attacks, which would help an archer out a ton.
Howie23
01-23-07, 10:40 AM I believe they FAQ'ed that one to let archer's magic bows work fine with mundane arrows vs incorps didn't they? Monks got left out of the loop (and yes the wording is awfully familiar) but the archers didn't have to buy magical arrows at all!

If you have a reference for that, I'd love to see it. To the best of my knowledge (and just finished search), there is nothing there arrows and incorps.

David
jstorrie
01-23-07, 10:49 AM You can use Arcane Strike on Ranged attacks, which would help an archer out a ton.

No, you can't.
Mommy was an Orc
01-23-07, 10:53 AM If you have a reference for that, I'd love to see it. To the best of my knowledge (and just finished search), there is nothing there arrows and incorps.

David

It is actually in the definition of Incorporeal. Magic Weapons or Creatures that strike as Magic Weapons.

Creatures that strike as magic weapons do so because they have DR/Magic and they use the same language as that of the arrows. There are no creatures that strike as magic weapons without the 'purposes of overcoming damage reduction language'

There's two ways to look at the FAQ ruling:
They intended it to be limited to Monks only.

They intended to limit every monster with DR/Magic without spelling it out and while there might be some theorectical monster in the future who strikes as a magical weapon, there isn't actually a monster who strikes as one.
LachlarlanIII
01-23-07, 11:16 AM You are quoting the Arcane Archer Enhancement, correct? That is exactly my point, that the Arcane Archer does overcome incorp miss, while normal arrow fired from a magical bow by a non-arcane archer does not.

Ahhh, okay, gotcha.
Alpha_Nerd
01-23-07, 11:22 AM No, you can't.

Darn you memory! You've left me looking stupid yet again.
jstorrie
01-23-07, 04:41 PM Well, that's a slight lie - you could, theoretically, use it on natural ranged weapons (Blood Wind?)
Sieylianna
01-23-07, 07:20 PM My opinion is that Arcane Archer doesn't do much for you (particularly with the changes in 3.5). Build an archer and then pick up a level of an arcane class. If he likes arrowmind, then I'd go straight ranger for the spellcasting. Otherwise, ranger 2/fighter 4 is the common archer route.

Ed

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CrystalBlue 01-22-07, 07:42 PM	I've got a friend that's trying to make an arcane archer. He wants to be a wood elf, goes wizard for three levels and then goes fighter for the rest. He wants to only really memorize his area effect spells for his imbue arrows and scribe scrolls of his buff spells. He'll pull scrolls at the beginning of combat or before and buff himself and then go in and use ranged attacks. He wants to go wizard only because he doesn't have to eat the Scribe Scroll feat, because he still wants to scribe. He's also waiting on his spell casting, limiting himself to 2nd level spells, till the high-levels. Tell me if this is a good/bad/ugly build.
Lomiat 01-22-07, 07:53 PM	I've got a friend that's trying to make an arcane archer. He wants to be a wood elf, goes wizard for three levels and then goes fighter for the rest. He wants to only really memorize his area effect spells for his imbue arrows and scribe scrolls of his buff spells. He'll pull scrolls at the beginning of combat or before and buff himself and then go in and use ranged attacks. He wants to go wizard only because he doesn't have to eat the Scribe Scroll feat, because he still wants to scribe. He's also waiting on his spell casting, limiting himself to 2nd level spells, till the high-levels. Tell me if this is a good/bad/ugly build. If he'll have fun playing it, let him build it himself. He'll be underpowered, though, and you might want to let him know that in advance. Generally, unless you are slated to lose a lot of skill points (think: Rogue), you're better off playing your 1st level with the higher hit die. After that, the Imbue Arrow ability isn't one of the Arcane Archer's stronger points. Versus a full volley, it loses damage. Versus pure spellcasting, it loses damage. I'd like to say it's more versatile than something, but it's really not. Finally, it doesn't usually pay to make a character who intends to spend the first round or two of a combat buffing himself, especially if that character is an archer. Eventually, the combats just don't last more than 2 to 3 rounds, and the character design intends to take that character out of the combat for all but 1 of those rounds. Nonetheless, those are the mechanical concerns. I helped one of my friends build an Arcane Archer, and I put together a Bard 3/Fighter 4. He hits well and does good damage, but the guy playing the PC is generally an outdoorsy, nature-loving guy and probably would have been happier if he'd had a Ranger 6/Wizard 1 archer. The mechanical differences are negligable. If your friend wants to make a wizard who's really good with a bow, I'd recommend Wizard 8/Fighter 2 before going arcane archer. Or he could just make an elf wizard (already proficient in the bow) or sorcerer (if he's a wood elf) and let him shoot (he'll run out of spells early enough anyway!). If he likes the spellcasting, he can pursue that. If he likes the archery, he can pursue that. There's no wrong answer if he's happy with the character.
cycloptic_squirrel 01-22-07, 08:12 PM	Personally, I'd go with the same character concept, but build-wise go the route of spellsword or eldrich knight. I'm not sure if arcane archer does much. But like Lomiat said, if he enjoys the thought of the prestige class, let him go for it.
Howie23 01-22-07, 09:59 PM	I'm not sure if arcane archer does much. I have a Rgr7/Wiz1/Arcane Archer 1. 'Twas my first LG character, and built it expecting it to work more like the NWN arcane does. Silly me. It does have one thing going for it. The arrows are imbued as magical, which then are eligible to hit incorporeals. W/o, most archers are shooting magic bows, which suffer the same language as monk ki strike does wrt incorps: the arrow is magic for the purpose of overcoming DR only. David
UMiskatonic 01-22-07, 10:32 PM	I've seen Rng 2/Wizard 12 work very well. The point blank and precise shot feats which you would take anyway work very well for lining up your ray and orb spells, and Craft Arms and Armor does wonders for your ability to keep up with the fighters. Those caster levels allow you to just MAKE +2 arrows. It's a more solid build, if you ask me. If I were to go arcane archer, I might go with ranger/bard. Lots of skills, very versatile build. REMEMBER: 16 strength is important, higher could even be worth it.
Mommy was an Orc 01-22-07, 11:30 PM	I think there's 3 basic ways to go Arcane Archer: Ranger 2/Hexblade 4/Arcane Archer 9 Bard 8/Arcane Archer 2/Sublime Chord 5 6 levels of +1 BAB/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 8 The first is nice because you never lose that BAB, but you don't exactly get great abilities for doing so. The 2nd works well, because then Imbue Arrow is a real threat. The last can be impressive because there's a few elven prestige classes not reliant on BAB. Example: Ranger 3/Fighter 1/Wizard 1/Wildrunner 2/Arcane Archer 8
Lomiat 01-22-07, 11:48 PM	I think there's 3 basic ways to go Arcane Archer: Ranger 2/Hexblade 4/Arcane Archer 9 Bard 8/Arcane Archer 2/Sublime Chord 5 6 levels of +1 BAB/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 8 The first is nice because you never lose that BAB, but you don't exactly get great abilities for doing so. The 2nd works well, because then Imbue Arrow is a real threat. The last can be impressive because there's a few elven prestige classes not reliant on BAB. Example: Ranger 3/Fighter 1/Wizard 1/Wildrunner 2/Arcane Archer 8 I might add Bard4/Fighter4/Arcane Archer7. Gets you to +4 arrows, plus Weapon Specialization, Bard song (give yourself +2 morale bonus to hit and damage), and some interesting bard spells you can imbue into arrows (not very often, though): Silence, Glitterdust, Sound Burst, Wave of Grief. Mostly, though, you just shoot. I like the Hexblade build, though. Maybe I'll try one someday...
Howie23 01-23-07, 12:33 AM	I've got a friend that's trying to make an arcane archer. Ok, at the risk of derailing a thread that I like... "Uh...see..it's my friend. He's got this Legolas thing..and..um...." "So, you're friend, as you call him..." "Uh, yeah. He's thinking Arcane Archer. Now, _I_ know it's not a power build class. _I_ wouldn't build one...but, you know, my friend...." "Yes. I understand. Let's talk about your friend, then...." wink David
viceregal 01-23-07, 01:38 AM	I have a Rgr7/Wiz1/Arcane Archer 1. 'Twas my first LG character, and built it expecting it to work more like the NWN arcane does. Silly me. It does have one thing going for it. The arrows are imbued as magical, which then are eligible to hit incorporeals. W/o, most archers are shooting magic bows, which suffer the same language as monk ki strike does wrt incorps: the arrow is magic for the purpose of overcoming DR only. David I believe they FAQ'ed that one to let archer's magic bows work fine with mundane arrows vs incorps didn't they? Monks got left out of the loop (and yes the wording is awfully familiar) but the archers didn't have to buy magical arrows at all!
CrystalBlue 01-23-07, 08:55 AM	Nuuuuu...it really is for a friend. Trust me. I've made too many threads on this board for just me. He doesn't have the internet ATM, so I posted it for him. Like I said above, he wants to try and be versitile. It's hard to understand what he really wants from listening to him. But I think I have the basic jist of what he's trying to accomplish. He likes the arcane archer concept. Not so much the PrC, but the concept of having magical arrows and imbueing AoE spells into them. Then I tell him his fireball is Long range (way beyond his bow) and his magic arrows don't stack with a magic bow. Then he says, "Oh...oh...ohhhhh...." Yeah...he didn't know how nerfed the PrC really was. Here are the things he wants about the casting and the attacking at the same time. From this, maybe you could recommend a race/class/stats/feats for him. -) He wants to buff himself up. A lot. He's looked in the Spell Compendium and likes the Arrow Mind spell and the one swift spell that adds +2 to all of your ranged attacks. He'd also like to try and cast True Strike at the same time with Arrow Mind to maximize the potential. -) He prefered wizard over sorcerer purely because of getting Scribe Scroll as a free feat. He said that way, he wouldn't have to drop a feat on it, as he does want to scribe scrolls to maximize his casting. Which I commended. But the way he was going with his stats, he'd only have a 12 Int, which I nixed and told him wouldn't work. -) He wants to be the main ranged of the party. I told him a mix of fighter and ranger would get him the feats and ability that he wanted. I don't know if he was going to take it or not. He was iffy on too much fighter, but insisted on only going so many levels of wizard. I questioned that a lot. :P My theory? I'd want him to go a mix of ranger/sorcerer or ranger/warmage. I don't know about the warmage much, cause he'll have a sub-par int. I would go... Ranger 2/Sorcerer 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword X This would get him the casting he needs and give him the ranged fighting he wants. How does this look?
LachlarlanIII 01-23-07, 10:26 AM	I have a Rgr7/Wiz1/Arcane Archer 1. 'Twas my first LG character, and built it expecting it to work more like the NWN arcane does. Silly me. It does have one thing going for it. The arrows are imbued as magical, which then are eligible to hit incorporeals. W/o, most archers are shooting magic bows, which suffer the same language as monk ki strike does wrt incorps: the arrow is magic for the purpose of overcoming DR only. David This is incorrect unless the ability has been errata'd or FAQ'd. From the SRD: Enhance Arrow (Su): At 1st level, every nonmagical arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus. Unlike magic weapons created by normal means, the archer need not spend experience points or gold pieces to accomplish this task. However, an archer’s magic arrows only function for her. For every two levels the character advances past 1st level in the prestige class, the magic arrows she creates gain +1 greater potency (+1 at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level, +3 at 5th level, +4 at 7th level, and +5 at 9th level). As you can see, the ability states nothing about the arrows becoming magical for the purposes of only overcoming DR.
LachlarlanIII 01-23-07, 10:28 AM	Ranger 2/Sorcerer 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword X This would get him the casting he needs and give him the ranged fighting he wants. How does this look? Hexblade 4/Ranger 2 also gets him the needed spellcasting without losing BAB. It also adds Mettle and Arcane Resistance.
Mommy was an Orc 01-23-07, 10:30 AM	Ranger 2/Sorcerer 4/Fighter 2/Spellsword X This would get him the casting he needs and give him the ranged fighting he wants. How does this look? The problem with doing that is he drops those 2 BAB so fast. As an archer, his concern is damage and Sorcerer won't really make up for that. At higher levels, archers don't miss, because they can't put anything into Power Attack and they usually have a superhigh attack score - and if they do miss, they usually get +4 to attack. If I were going to go that route, I'd go Bard instead of Sorcerer - Bard 4 means you can Inspire Courage, which works amazingly well with archery. The Bard 8/Arcane Archer 2/Sublime Chord 5 build I mentioned is extremely effective because of that - he does Inspire Courage on round 1, adding +2 to hit/damage after hitting 3rd level. As a Wood Elf, he's proficient with a longbow and can easily have the 16 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 10 Int, 8 Wis, 14 Cha. His skill points all get eaten up by Sublime Chord prereqs, but then he has actual area affect spells to toss with it. Bards make pretty efficient archers if you build them for it.
Howie23 01-23-07, 10:32 AM	This is incorrect unless the ability has been errata'd or FAQ'd. From the SRD: Enhance Arrow (Su): At 1st level, every nonmagical arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus. Unlike magic weapons created by normal means, the archer need not spend experience points or gold pieces to accomplish this task. However, an archer’s magic arrows only function for her. For every two levels the character advances past 1st level in the prestige class, the magic arrows she creates gain +1 greater potency (+1 at 1st level, +2 at 3rd level, +3 at 5th level, +4 at 7th level, and +5 at 9th level). As you can see, the ability states nothing about the arrows becoming magical for the purposes of only overcoming DR. You are quoting the Arcane Archer Enhancement, correct? That is exactly my point, that the Arcane Archer does overcome incorp miss, while normal arrow fired from a magical bow by a non-arcane archer does not.
Alpha_Nerd 01-23-07, 10:39 AM	You can use Arcane Strike on Ranged attacks, which would help an archer out a ton.
Howie23 01-23-07, 10:40 AM	I believe they FAQ'ed that one to let archer's magic bows work fine with mundane arrows vs incorps didn't they? Monks got left out of the loop (and yes the wording is awfully familiar) but the archers didn't have to buy magical arrows at all! If you have a reference for that, I'd love to see it. To the best of my knowledge (and just finished search), there is nothing there arrows and incorps. David
jstorrie 01-23-07, 10:49 AM	You can use Arcane Strike on Ranged attacks, which would help an archer out a ton. No, you can't.
Mommy was an Orc 01-23-07, 10:53 AM	If you have a reference for that, I'd love to see it. To the best of my knowledge (and just finished search), there is nothing there arrows and incorps. David It is actually in the definition of Incorporeal. Magic Weapons or Creatures that strike as Magic Weapons. Creatures that strike as magic weapons do so because they have DR/Magic and they use the same language as that of the arrows. There are no creatures that strike as magic weapons without the 'purposes of overcoming damage reduction language' There's two ways to look at the FAQ ruling: They intended it to be limited to Monks only. They intended to limit every monster with DR/Magic without spelling it out and while there might be some theorectical monster in the future who strikes as a magical weapon, there isn't actually a monster who strikes as one.
LachlarlanIII 01-23-07, 11:16 AM	You are quoting the Arcane Archer Enhancement, correct? That is exactly my point, that the Arcane Archer does overcome incorp miss, while normal arrow fired from a magical bow by a non-arcane archer does not. Ahhh, okay, gotcha.
Alpha_Nerd 01-23-07, 11:22 AM	No, you can't. Darn you memory! You've left me looking stupid yet again.
jstorrie 01-23-07, 04:41 PM	Well, that's a slight lie - you could, theoretically, use it on natural ranged weapons (Blood Wind?)
Sieylianna 01-23-07, 07:20 PM	My opinion is that Arcane Archer doesn't do much for you (particularly with the changes in 3.5). Build an archer and then pick up a level of an arcane class. If he likes arrowmind, then I'd go straight ranger for the spellcasting. Otherwise, ranger 2/fighter 4 is the common archer route. Ed