Archerness. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Archerness. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Morgen
01-13-07, 04:46 AM Well I just thought up something in a different thread and wanted to see how it might stack up. Has anyone tried a Favored Soul/Warmage Archer build?

Something like Human (Suel) for race.

Favored Soul 4/Warmage 4/Mystic Thurge 8 for classes.

12/15/12/12/10/14 for stats...Actually maybe Gray Elf would be a better race for it.

10/16/12/14/10/14 for the Elf.

Point Blank, Precise Shot, Well Read, Rapid Shot....free weapon focus with a number of Deities..

There is probably a far better optimized build for this, and it more then likely doens't involve a ton of Mystic Thurge. Just combining Clerical Buffs with range touch spells and a bow. Anyone?
Sieylianna
01-13-07, 12:06 PM Well I just thought up something in a different thread and wanted to see how it might stack up. Has anyone tried a Favored Soul/Warmage Archer build?

I have a human favored soul (Ehlonna) archer. First level point blank and precise shot, rapid shot and weapon focus at 3rd level. I have considered sorcerer and mystic theurge, but I don't think it's viable in LG. You can't take your first theurge level until 9th, so you're even further behind. I'd like to pick up ruathar access, because that opens up a lot of options.

Ed
UMiskatonic
01-13-07, 01:02 PM I think you're better off with an archer/warmage. I've played that character, and it works well.

If you want clerical buffs, take leadership, you'll have the charisma for it, and after rapid shot, you're pretty well set for feats.
bhale187
01-13-07, 04:18 PM IMHO 2 feats spent on Practiced Spellcaster (1 Favored Soul and 1 Warmage) is a must. You will never catch up on the spells castable, but at least those 2 feats will put you on even ground in terms of the potency for the spells you do cast.
Morgen
01-14-07, 01:07 AM Well what level of spells do Archers ususally take for buffs? I can imagine 3rd level for Greater Magic Weapon and so forth, but is there anything else?

How about some Arcane Archer?
I can think of several broken spells to use Imbune Arrow for since it doesn't say limit once per day.
Mithreinmaethor
01-14-07, 05:22 PM Would this make a decent Archer build ?

Ranger 3 / Fighter 2 / Wild Runner 2 / Warmage 6 / Arcane Archer 2

Ranger is for skills and feats to qualify for Wildrunner. Plus the
Fighter is basically to get more archery type feats
Wildrunner is for the Primal Scream and well Scent is great with Tracking :)
Warmage is for blasting spells and area affect spells for imbue arrow
Arcane Archer for imbue arrow of course
clannagh
01-14-07, 07:00 PM Would this make a decent Archer build ?

Ranger 3 / Fighter 2 / Wild Runner 2 / Warmage 6 / Arcane Archer 2

Ranger is for skills and feats to qualify for Wildrunner. Plus the
Fighter is basically to get more archery type feats
Wildrunner is for the Primal Scream and well Scent is great with Tracking :)
Warmage is for blasting spells and area affect spells for imbue arrow
Arcane Archer for imbue arrow of course

ranger 4 is actually worth doing with the new spell compendium ranger spells like arrow mind
Mithreinmaethor
01-14-07, 07:25 PM Yeah I was looking at that. I also looked at the area affect spells you could use with the imbue arrow ability. And well most of them have hella long ranges on their own. So the 2 levels of AA and 6 levels of Warmage are out.

Wood Elf (God - Gadhelyn)
Starting Stats - S:14 D:17 C:12 I:12 W:12 Ch: 8 (Stat Bumps will be 4th - Dex / 8th & 12th Wisdom)

1st - Rogue - Point Blank Shot
2nd - Ranger -
3rd - Fighter - Precise Shot & Weapon Focus (Comp Longbow)
4th - Rogue
5th - Ranger
6th - Fighter - True Believer & Improved Initiative
7th - Pious Templar

Ok this leaves me with 2 levels to take in each of the following Ranger, Rogue, Pious Templar & Occult Slayer. I have all the prereqs for Occult Slayer at 6th but took Pious Templar at 7th to get Mettle. So I have Mettle and Evasion at 7th. After that its just fitting in the last 8 levels. Any ideas ?
Reylance
01-15-07, 03:06 PM For the original poster, building an archer with a low-BAB build like mystic theurge isn't the most profitable path. You'll do a lot more damage with your spells than your bow, and with greater consistency.

There's little buffing unique to a cleric, with divine favor best among them, available via Nobility Domain and Arcane Disciple. The favored soul may give you Weapon Focus, but a level of fighter or two gives you bonus feats as well. Warmage, with flame arrow, could contribute as an archer, but better would be wizard. A wizard best allows you to craft items.
LachlarlanIII
01-15-07, 03:35 PM Have you considered trying Scout(Rogue)/Order of the Bow Initiate?

You'd basically run around shooting one arrow and do tons of damage with that one using Skirmish + Precise Shot.

Against critters immune to critical hits, you can just Rapid Shot the crap out of them.
jstorrie
01-15-07, 04:07 PM Mathematically speaking the one-shot builds are going to get markedly less damage output than the rapid-shotters. They are totally a lot of fun, though.
Mithreinmaethor
01-17-07, 06:28 PM Yeah I was looking at that. I also looked at the area affect spells you could use with the imbue arrow ability. And well most of them have hella long ranges on their own. So the 2 levels of AA and 6 levels of Warmage are out.

Wood Elf (God - Gadhelyn)
Starting Stats - S:14 D:17 C:12 I:12 W:12 Ch: 8 (Stat Bumps will be 4th - Dex / 8th & 12th Wisdom)

1st - Rogue - Point Blank Shot
2nd - Ranger -
3rd - Fighter - Precise Shot & Weapon Focus (Comp Longbow)
4th - Rogue
5th - Ranger
6th - Fighter - True Believer & Improved Initiative
7th - Pious Templar

Ok this leaves me with 2 levels to take in each of the following Ranger, Rogue, Pious Templar & Occult Slayer. I have all the prereqs for Occult Slayer at 6th but took Pious Templar at 7th to get Mettle. So I have Mettle and Evasion at 7th. After that its just fitting in the last 8 levels. Any ideas ?

Anyone ? This good or bad. And doesnt have to be a Wood Elf either. Never built an archer before so thought I would try something new.
Mithreinmaethor
01-19-07, 07:41 AM Ok so this is what I came up with on my own for an Archer build. Please tear it down for me:

Human (S:10 D:16 C:14 I:12 W:14 C:8)

1st - Scout (Point Blank Shot & Precise Shot)
2nd - Monk (Improved Grapple)
3rd - Monk (Deflect Arrows & Improved Initiative)
4th - Scout
5th - Fighter (Weapon Focus - Longbow)
6th - Fighter (Track & Sharp Shooting)
7th - Scout
8th - Occult Slayer
9th - Occult Slayer (True Believer)
10th thru 15th Pious Templar

Need some ideas for the feats to take at 12th, 13th and 15th.

The stat raises are going into Dex.

Has good saves and good AB. Not going to wear armor. Mainly bracers and such.
CrystalBlue
01-19-07, 07:57 AM I still like my Rng 3/Fgt 2/Horizen Walker. Getting dimension door as an ability every 1d4 rounds just...sends a tickle up my spine. ^.^ I've also got a griffon, so I'll be up in the air all the time, straffing the battlefield with full Rapid Shot.

I was also going to go OotBI, but it's precision damage just doesn't do that much. Plus, you have to be within 30 feet. I like my archers to be far, far away from things that could perforate him. I'm still wondering what to take for my 9th level feat. Improved Rapid Shot maybe. Hmmmm....
Vledryn
01-21-07, 09:08 AM Scout,order bow initiate, hexblade, Red Dragon Disciple.
Scout,order Bow initiate, mage {pick a specialization}, Arcane Archer
Japangirl
01-21-07, 01:41 PM Ok so this is what I came up with on my own for an Archer build. Please tear it down for me:

Human (S:10 D:16 C:14 I:12 W:14 C:8)

1st - Scout (Point Blank Shot & Precise Shot)
2nd - Monk (Improved Grapple)
3rd - Monk (Deflect Arrows & Improved Initiative)
4th - Scout
5th - Fighter (Weapon Focus - Longbow)
6th - Fighter (Track & Sharp Shooting)
7th - Scout
8th - Occult Slayer
9th - Occult Slayer (True Believer)
10th thru 15th Pious Templar

Need some ideas for the feats to take at 12th, 13th and 15th.

The stat raises are going into Dex.

Has good saves and good AB. Not going to wear armor. Mainly bracers and such.

You need more strength. Quite a bit more, 14 if you can find the points from somewhere. At mid levels, with a strength bow, the strength damage adds up. Also, having some strength to add to your damage helps get around DR/- or hardness so that instead of doing no damage, at least you plink away with 0-4ish damage per arrow.

Why does your Int need to be so high? What skills are you planning on getting that require a 12 Int? Drop the Int to 8 to get a 14 Str and I think the archer is a much more viable damage dealer. *Especially* because it looks like, with all the scout, you intend to take only one shot per round (consider Multishot instead of Improved Initiative, at least then you get multiple arrows with one shot), doing all the damage you can with one arrow becomes far more important.
amnuxoll
01-22-07, 12:50 PM Well I just thought up something in a different thread and wanted to see how it might stack up. Has anyone tried a Favored Soul/Warmage Archer build?

Something like Human (Suel) for race.

Favored Soul 4/Warmage 4/Mystic Thurge 8 for classes.

12/15/12/12/10/14 for stats...Actually maybe Gray Elf would be a better race for it.

10/16/12/14/10/14 for the Elf.

Point Blank, Precise Shot, Well Read, Rapid Shot....free weapon focus with a number of Deities..

There is probably a far better optimized build for this, and it more then likely doens't involve a ton of Mystic Thurge. Just combining Clerical Buffs with range touch spells and a bow. Anyone?

Bizarre idea. I like it. Your biggest hurdle is that you're feat poor. Other feats you really want are: Zen Archery, Practiced Spellcaster. Zen Archery, in particular, let's you ease up on the need for Dex.

:AMN:
Mithreinmaethor
01-22-07, 09:59 PM You need more strength. Quite a bit more, 14 if you can find the points from somewhere. At mid levels, with a strength bow, the strength damage adds up. Also, having some strength to add to your damage helps get around DR/- or hardness so that instead of doing no damage, at least you plink away with 0-4ish damage per arrow.

Why does your Int need to be so high? What skills are you planning on getting that require a 12 Int? Drop the Int to 8 to get a 14 Str and I think the archer is a much more viable damage dealer. *Especially* because it looks like, with all the scout, you intend to take only one shot per round (consider Multishot instead of Improved Initiative, at least then you get multiple arrows with one shot), doing all the damage you can with one arrow becomes far more important.

Well I have been tossing around either Human (for the extra feat and skill points) or the Wood Elf (stat bumps). I think the Int 12 was a leftover from the Wood Elf build. I personally wouldnt drop int below a 10. But thats just me.

The Wood Elf looked like this (S:14 D:17 C:12 I:10 W:14 C:8). All 3 stat dumps would go into Dex to get it to 20.

But I appreciate the help. Please add more to it. Recommend different classes etc etc. The gods know I need as much help as possible.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Morgen 01-13-07, 04:46 AM	Well I just thought up something in a different thread and wanted to see how it might stack up. Has anyone tried a Favored Soul/Warmage Archer build? Something like Human (Suel) for race. Favored Soul 4/Warmage 4/Mystic Thurge 8 for classes. 12/15/12/12/10/14 for stats...Actually maybe Gray Elf would be a better race for it. 10/16/12/14/10/14 for the Elf. Point Blank, Precise Shot, Well Read, Rapid Shot....free weapon focus with a number of Deities.. There is probably a far better optimized build for this, and it more then likely doens't involve a ton of Mystic Thurge. Just combining Clerical Buffs with range touch spells and a bow. Anyone?
Sieylianna 01-13-07, 12:06 PM	Well I just thought up something in a different thread and wanted to see how it might stack up. Has anyone tried a Favored Soul/Warmage Archer build? I have a human favored soul (Ehlonna) archer. First level point blank and precise shot, rapid shot and weapon focus at 3rd level. I have considered sorcerer and mystic theurge, but I don't think it's viable in LG. You can't take your first theurge level until 9th, so you're even further behind. I'd like to pick up ruathar access, because that opens up a lot of options. Ed
UMiskatonic 01-13-07, 01:02 PM	I think you're better off with an archer/warmage. I've played that character, and it works well. If you want clerical buffs, take leadership, you'll have the charisma for it, and after rapid shot, you're pretty well set for feats.
bhale187 01-13-07, 04:18 PM	IMHO 2 feats spent on Practiced Spellcaster (1 Favored Soul and 1 Warmage) is a must. You will never catch up on the spells castable, but at least those 2 feats will put you on even ground in terms of the potency for the spells you do cast.
Morgen 01-14-07, 01:07 AM	Well what level of spells do Archers ususally take for buffs? I can imagine 3rd level for Greater Magic Weapon and so forth, but is there anything else? How about some Arcane Archer? I can think of several broken spells to use Imbune Arrow for since it doesn't say limit once per day.
Mithreinmaethor 01-14-07, 05:22 PM	Would this make a decent Archer build ? Ranger 3 / Fighter 2 / Wild Runner 2 / Warmage 6 / Arcane Archer 2 Ranger is for skills and feats to qualify for Wildrunner. Plus the Fighter is basically to get more archery type feats Wildrunner is for the Primal Scream and well Scent is great with Tracking :) Warmage is for blasting spells and area affect spells for imbue arrow Arcane Archer for imbue arrow of course
clannagh 01-14-07, 07:00 PM	Would this make a decent Archer build ? Ranger 3 / Fighter 2 / Wild Runner 2 / Warmage 6 / Arcane Archer 2 Ranger is for skills and feats to qualify for Wildrunner. Plus the Fighter is basically to get more archery type feats Wildrunner is for the Primal Scream and well Scent is great with Tracking :) Warmage is for blasting spells and area affect spells for imbue arrow Arcane Archer for imbue arrow of course ranger 4 is actually worth doing with the new spell compendium ranger spells like arrow mind
Mithreinmaethor 01-14-07, 07:25 PM	Yeah I was looking at that. I also looked at the area affect spells you could use with the imbue arrow ability. And well most of them have hella long ranges on their own. So the 2 levels of AA and 6 levels of Warmage are out. Wood Elf (God - Gadhelyn) Starting Stats - S:14 D:17 C:12 I:12 W:12 Ch: 8 (Stat Bumps will be 4th - Dex / 8th & 12th Wisdom) 1st - Rogue - Point Blank Shot 2nd - Ranger - 3rd - Fighter - Precise Shot & Weapon Focus (Comp Longbow) 4th - Rogue 5th - Ranger 6th - Fighter - True Believer & Improved Initiative 7th - Pious Templar Ok this leaves me with 2 levels to take in each of the following Ranger, Rogue, Pious Templar & Occult Slayer. I have all the prereqs for Occult Slayer at 6th but took Pious Templar at 7th to get Mettle. So I have Mettle and Evasion at 7th. After that its just fitting in the last 8 levels. Any ideas ?
Reylance 01-15-07, 03:06 PM	For the original poster, building an archer with a low-BAB build like mystic theurge isn't the most profitable path. You'll do a lot more damage with your spells than your bow, and with greater consistency. There's little buffing unique to a cleric, with divine favor best among them, available via Nobility Domain and Arcane Disciple. The favored soul may give you Weapon Focus, but a level of fighter or two gives you bonus feats as well. Warmage, with flame arrow, could contribute as an archer, but better would be wizard. A wizard best allows you to craft items.
LachlarlanIII 01-15-07, 03:35 PM	Have you considered trying Scout(Rogue)/Order of the Bow Initiate? You'd basically run around shooting one arrow and do tons of damage with that one using Skirmish + Precise Shot. Against critters immune to critical hits, you can just Rapid Shot the crap out of them.
jstorrie 01-15-07, 04:07 PM	Mathematically speaking the one-shot builds are going to get markedly less damage output than the rapid-shotters. They are totally a lot of fun, though.
Mithreinmaethor 01-17-07, 06:28 PM	Yeah I was looking at that. I also looked at the area affect spells you could use with the imbue arrow ability. And well most of them have hella long ranges on their own. So the 2 levels of AA and 6 levels of Warmage are out. Wood Elf (God - Gadhelyn) Starting Stats - S:14 D:17 C:12 I:12 W:12 Ch: 8 (Stat Bumps will be 4th - Dex / 8th & 12th Wisdom) 1st - Rogue - Point Blank Shot 2nd - Ranger - 3rd - Fighter - Precise Shot & Weapon Focus (Comp Longbow) 4th - Rogue 5th - Ranger 6th - Fighter - True Believer & Improved Initiative 7th - Pious Templar Ok this leaves me with 2 levels to take in each of the following Ranger, Rogue, Pious Templar & Occult Slayer. I have all the prereqs for Occult Slayer at 6th but took Pious Templar at 7th to get Mettle. So I have Mettle and Evasion at 7th. After that its just fitting in the last 8 levels. Any ideas ? Anyone ? This good or bad. And doesnt have to be a Wood Elf either. Never built an archer before so thought I would try something new.
Mithreinmaethor 01-19-07, 07:41 AM	Ok so this is what I came up with on my own for an Archer build. Please tear it down for me: Human (S:10 D:16 C:14 I:12 W:14 C:8) 1st - Scout (Point Blank Shot & Precise Shot) 2nd - Monk (Improved Grapple) 3rd - Monk (Deflect Arrows & Improved Initiative) 4th - Scout 5th - Fighter (Weapon Focus - Longbow) 6th - Fighter (Track & Sharp Shooting) 7th - Scout 8th - Occult Slayer 9th - Occult Slayer (True Believer) 10th thru 15th Pious Templar Need some ideas for the feats to take at 12th, 13th and 15th. The stat raises are going into Dex. Has good saves and good AB. Not going to wear armor. Mainly bracers and such.
CrystalBlue 01-19-07, 07:57 AM	I still like my Rng 3/Fgt 2/Horizen Walker. Getting dimension door as an ability every 1d4 rounds just...sends a tickle up my spine. ^.^ I've also got a griffon, so I'll be up in the air all the time, straffing the battlefield with full Rapid Shot. I was also going to go OotBI, but it's precision damage just doesn't do that much. Plus, you have to be within 30 feet. I like my archers to be far, far away from things that could perforate him. I'm still wondering what to take for my 9th level feat. Improved Rapid Shot maybe. Hmmmm....
Vledryn 01-21-07, 09:08 AM	Scout,order bow initiate, hexblade, Red Dragon Disciple. Scout,order Bow initiate, mage {pick a specialization}, Arcane Archer
Japangirl 01-21-07, 01:41 PM	Ok so this is what I came up with on my own for an Archer build. Please tear it down for me: Human (S:10 D:16 C:14 I:12 W:14 C:8) 1st - Scout (Point Blank Shot & Precise Shot) 2nd - Monk (Improved Grapple) 3rd - Monk (Deflect Arrows & Improved Initiative) 4th - Scout 5th - Fighter (Weapon Focus - Longbow) 6th - Fighter (Track & Sharp Shooting) 7th - Scout 8th - Occult Slayer 9th - Occult Slayer (True Believer) 10th thru 15th Pious Templar Need some ideas for the feats to take at 12th, 13th and 15th. The stat raises are going into Dex. Has good saves and good AB. Not going to wear armor. Mainly bracers and such. You need more strength. Quite a bit more, 14 if you can find the points from somewhere. At mid levels, with a strength bow, the strength damage adds up. Also, having some strength to add to your damage helps get around DR/- or hardness so that instead of doing no damage, at least you plink away with 0-4ish damage per arrow. Why does your Int need to be so high? What skills are you planning on getting that require a 12 Int? Drop the Int to 8 to get a 14 Str and I think the archer is a much more viable damage dealer. Especially because it looks like, with all the scout, you intend to take only one shot per round (consider Multishot instead of Improved Initiative, at least then you get multiple arrows with one shot), doing all the damage you can with one arrow becomes far more important.
amnuxoll 01-22-07, 12:50 PM	Well I just thought up something in a different thread and wanted to see how it might stack up. Has anyone tried a Favored Soul/Warmage Archer build? Something like Human (Suel) for race. Favored Soul 4/Warmage 4/Mystic Thurge 8 for classes. 12/15/12/12/10/14 for stats...Actually maybe Gray Elf would be a better race for it. 10/16/12/14/10/14 for the Elf. Point Blank, Precise Shot, Well Read, Rapid Shot....free weapon focus with a number of Deities.. There is probably a far better optimized build for this, and it more then likely doens't involve a ton of Mystic Thurge. Just combining Clerical Buffs with range touch spells and a bow. Anyone? Bizarre idea. I like it. Your biggest hurdle is that you're feat poor. Other feats you really want are: Zen Archery, Practiced Spellcaster. Zen Archery, in particular, let's you ease up on the need for Dex. :AMN:
Mithreinmaethor 01-22-07, 09:59 PM	You need more strength. Quite a bit more, 14 if you can find the points from somewhere. At mid levels, with a strength bow, the strength damage adds up. Also, having some strength to add to your damage helps get around DR/- or hardness so that instead of doing no damage, at least you plink away with 0-4ish damage per arrow. Why does your Int need to be so high? What skills are you planning on getting that require a 12 Int? Drop the Int to 8 to get a 14 Str and I think the archer is a much more viable damage dealer. Especially because it looks like, with all the scout, you intend to take only one shot per round (consider Multishot instead of Improved Initiative, at least then you get multiple arrows with one shot), doing all the damage you can with one arrow becomes far more important. Well I have been tossing around either Human (for the extra feat and skill points) or the Wood Elf (stat bumps). I think the Int 12 was a leftover from the Wood Elf build. I personally wouldnt drop int below a 10. But thats just me. The Wood Elf looked like this (S:14 D:17 C:12 I:10 W:14 C:8). All 3 stat dumps would go into Dex to get it to 20. But I appreciate the help. Please add more to it. Recommend different classes etc etc. The gods know I need as much help as possible.