Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kjenks 04-02-07, 08:07 AM	You can start a Bright Lands "fastplay" character in any of the Bright Sands mods. One of the major drawbacks to Arinohal, the Bright Lands fastplay sorcerer, was her Toughness feat. It's okay at levels 1 through 3, but by level 4, Improved Toughness would be better -- or Draconic Power or anything else, really. But now, with the Retraining rules, she's no longer forced to keep Toughness forever. Since she's a Bright Lands character, she can select the Fiery Spell or Searing Spell feats -- and both work well with Draconic Power (brass) for extra punch on [Fire] spells.
taylorj 04-02-07, 09:58 AM	You can start a Bright Lands "fastplay" character in any of the Bright Sands mods. One of the major drawbacks to Arinohal, the Bright Lands fastplay sorcerer, was her Toughness feat. It's okay at levels 1 through 3, but by level 4, Improved Toughness would be better -- or Draconic Power or anything else, really. But now, with the Retraining rules, she's no longer forced to keep Toughness forever. :eek: That's kind of amusing that you can still start out a fastplay like that. Hm-mm-mm...
Lupo 04-02-07, 02:44 PM	:eek: That's kind of amusing that you can still start out a fastplay like that. Hm-mm-mm... yea :) with the retraining option available i am thinking of getting together a "let's-all-have-a-second-bright-desert-character" table somewhere, i would love to have a bright desert druid :P, dustform vreatures rock :) or a bright desert sorcerer or a bright desert cleric :) ciao martin m.
kjenks 04-02-07, 04:57 PM	yea :) with the retraining option available i am thinking of getting together a "let's-all-have-a-second-bright-desert-character" table somewhere, i would love to have a bright desert druid :P, dustform vreatures rock :) or a bright desert sorcerer or a bright desert cleric :) ciao martin m. One trick is that you're stuck with the fastplay character's stat choices, but that's not so bad. Beware: The skill points for Gordegar, the fastplay ranger, don't add up, so if you choose that character, you'll have to fix the skills at some point. How? I dunno. You can play those Core games on-line. You don't even need to complete the adventure to start your character, just get your first AR.
kjenks 04-02-07, 05:57 PM	So, what should we do with Arinohal? === nHuman (Suel) Sorcerer 1: CR 1; Medium humanoid; HD 1d4+1; hp 8; Init +0, Spd 30 ft.; AC 10, touch 10, flat-footed 10; Base Atk +0; Grp +0; Atk +0 melee (1d8, spear), +0 melee (1d4/19-20, dagger) or +0 ranged (1d8/19-20, light crossbow); Full Atk +0 melee (1d8, spear), +0 melee (1d4/19- 20, dagger) or +0 ranged (1d8/19-20, light crossbow); SA spells; SQ summon familiar; AL CG; SV Fort +1, Ref +0, Will +3; Str 10, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 16. Skills and Feats: Concentration +5, Knowledge (arcana) +5, Ride +2, Spellcraft +5; Toughness, Draconic Heritage (Brass) Languages: Ancient Suel, Common. Sorcerer Spells Known: (4/3; base DC = 13 + spell level): 0- acid splash, dancing lights, detect magic, detect poison; 1st- mage armor, sunstroke*. *New feat or spell from Sandstorm. Possessions: Spear, dagger, light crossbow, 10 bolts, backpack, bedroll, flint and steel, signal whistle, winter blanket, belt pouch (2), spell component pouch, torch (5), scroll case, alchemical fire (2), sunrod, 25 gp, 5 sp, 5 cp. Sample Background (Optional): A Suel, Arinohal dwelt in the ancient fortress of Ghazal. Commanding Hardby Pass, Ghazal is a haven for the Tareg; a Suel tribe who are little more than thieves and brigands. Their leader, Kekravil is a foul man who sought to force his attentions upon Arinohal. No match for his sorcererous might Arinohal was forced to flee. Since then she has wandered the wastes looking for a means to gain the power she needs to protectherself from Kekravil. Role-playing Notes: The Suel of the Bright are generally a surly, violent, honor-driven folk. Superstition holds great weight among them and they hold most outsiders in contempt. The Suel of Ghazal are reviled by the Flan and are now dangerously inbred. Generally they worship Llerg (Suel lesser god of strength and beasts) but a few still worship Phyton (Suel lesser god of nature, natural beauty and farming) in his CN aspect. === I have taken her up to level 2. I had her summon a horned lizard familiar, with its poorly-written blood spurt ability to cause all foes to be shaken if they blow a Will save, DC 11. At level 2, she got one new cantrip; I gave her Daze. She gets four skill points; I bumped up Concentration and Ride and I gave her 1 cross-class rank in Sleight of Hand (because all spellcasters should have that to take advantage of the Races of the Wild rule for alternative skill use to disguise spellcasting). At level 3, I'll probably give her Draconic Power for that nifty +1 caster level, and +1 DC on [Fire] spells, along with Gather Info as a class skill. She'll max out her Gather Info, since that's a good way for a sorceress to contribute to the role-playing part of the adventure. Also at level 3, I'll retrain away her Toughness feat for some other feat. Which one? Arcane Disciple? I'll probably give her Lesser Orb of Fire as her new spell known. At level 4, I'll bump up her Con (13 to 14), then later on I'll put the other two bumps into Cha. Also at level 4, I'll swap out her Sunstroke for Guided Shot or Familiar Pocket, since Sunstroke loses out to Lesser Orb of Fire in power around this level. Since she has some Wisdom, I'm thinking about the Arcane Disciple feat at some point for some more spells known. As a CG Suel, she could worship either Llerg (Suel lesser god of strength and beasts) or Phyton (Suel lesser god of nature, natural beauty and farming) as described in her Sample Background, or she could worship another deity, leaning toward CG Suel deities. Within those parameters, and selecting for a domain that works well for Arcane Disciple, which deity makes the most sense? The Healing domain looks like fun, but Luck and Travel are always good. Dalt: Domains: Chaos, Good, Liberation* (CD), Protection, Travel, Trickery. Kord: Domains: Chaos, Competition* (CD), Courage* (CW), Good, Luck, Nobility* (CW, Ss), Strength. Llerg: Domains: Animal, Chaos, Competition* (CD), Courage* (CW), Strength. Lydia: Domains: Good, Knowledge, Liberation* (CD), Sun, Travel. Nazarn: Luck, War. Norebo: Domains: Chaos, Competition* (CD), Courage* (CW), Luck, Trickery. Phaulkon: Domains: Air, Animal, Chaos, Good, Sky* (RotW), War. Phyton: Domains: Chaos, Community* (CD), Good, Plant, Sun, Water. Vatun: Domains: Air, Animal, Chaos, Cold* (CD, Fb), Strength, Winter* (Fb). Xerbo: Domains: Animal, Knowledge, Pact* (CD), Water. Lydia would be nice with the Liberation domain giving Freedom of Movement and Rage. Both are good touch spells (to be delivered with the familiar, if needed). Does Arcane Disciple also give her the domain's granted power? If it does, Luck and Travel are inviting. If not, the Sun domain has a fine spell list for a fire-sorceress.
kjenks 04-02-07, 06:50 PM	I just checked my Complete Divine. No granted power. Poop.
copper_wyrmling 04-02-07, 08:04 PM	Note that Arcane Disciple doesn't grant a sorcerer extra spells known: it just puts the domain spells on your spell list, you still have to learn them as normal for your class. I don't think it's a good sorcerer feat. You end up dedicating a feat AND precious spells-known slots for spells that you can only cast once / day, and any save DCs are based on Wisdom, and you need to keep buying magic items to increase your Wisdom (which may lead to slot conflict with a Con amulet) if you want to take the higher-level domain spells. The low Dex is annoying: a lot of the best fire spells are ranged touch :( At higher levels, though, I guess she can use blink or imp invis to help with that. Gather Info as a class skill is lovely: Friendly Face might be a decent spell pick at higher levels (my sorc has really enjoyed having untrained diplomacy and gather info in the mid-teens, and Arinohal would be significantly better at it since she can get gather info as a class skill). If you're going to take advantage of fiery spell and searing spell, that'll eat up a significant chunk of her feats. Metamagic School Focus (evocation or conjuration) seems very nice for a fire-based blaster sorc (scorching ray and the orbs make excellent metamagicked damage spells), but may just be too feat-intensive here. L1: Draconic Heritage (Brass), Fiery Spell L3: Draconic Power (Brass) L6: Empower Spell L9: Searing Spell L12: Rapid Metamagic L15: Quicken Spell Something like that? Or skip some of the metamagic, and go for more draconic feats - Draconic Legacy is nice, although the prereqs are pretty horrendous.
jstorrie 04-02-07, 10:26 PM	If you can get Fiery/Searing Spell, I see little reason not to become an Elemental Savant.
kjenks 04-02-07, 10:42 PM	It looks like the LGCS is a little ambiguous here. On page 12, "Elemental Savant: This class requires campaign documentation, such as an AR entry or metaorg." But on page 34, Elemental Savant is listed as Open.
Jay_Ibero_911 04-02-07, 10:56 PM	It looks like the LGCS is a little ambiguous here. On page 12, "Elemental Savant: This class requires campaign documentation, such as an AR entry or metaorg." But on page 34, Elemental Savant is listed as Open. Just because it's open doesn't mean you don't have to meet the special pre-requisites, which in this case are more specifically defined by the LGCS.
copper_wyrmling 04-02-07, 11:39 PM	If you can get Fiery/Searing Spell, I see little reason not to become an Elemental Savant. It costs skills and a feat, iirc. Both are in short supply for sorcerers, especially sorcerers who are taking draconic feats plus some unusual metamagics. If you take more than four levels, it costs a caster level, and from the very start it stops you from being able to cast non-fire elemental spells (usually not a big deal with searing spell, but still a disadvantage). The flavor is nice, but it certainly doesn't seem like a no-brainer PrC to me.
kjenks 04-04-07, 10:00 AM	On further inspection, it looks like Consecrate Spell will help a sorcerer more than Searing Spell because Consecrate Spell works with more than just [Fire] spells. What do you think?
kjenks 04-04-07, 10:14 AM	L1: Draconic Heritage (Brass), Fiery Spell L3: Draconic Power (Brass) L6: Empower Spell L9: Searing Spell L12: Rapid Metamagic L15: Quicken Spell That looks interesting. Fiery Spell stacks up with Empower Spell for lots of flexibility in deciding between single vs. multiple targets vs. area. Fiery + Empower + Scorching Ray = level 5 spell slot, average damage is 67. Fiery + Fireball = level 4 spell slot, average damage is 45. Empower + Fireball = level 5 spell slot, average damage is 53. Fiery + Empower + Fireball = level 6 spell slot, average damage is 67. Fiery + Orb of Fire = level 5 spell slot, average damage is 67. Empower + Orb of Fire = level 6 spell slot, average damage is 79. Fiery + Empower + Orb of Fire = level 7 spell slot, average damage is 101. Quicken + Fiery + Scorching Ray = level 7 spell slot, average damage is 54. Quicken + Empower + Lesser Orb of Fire = level 7 spell slot, average damage is 34.
jstorrie 04-04-07, 11:01 AM	Would you be better served by Draconic Heritage, or by Spell Focus + Metamagic School Focus? The latter'd pigeonhole you into one school of damage spells (Conjuration or Evocation) but has, I think, the higher damage potential.
copper_wyrmling 04-04-07, 01:14 PM	On further inspection, it looks like Consecrate Spell will help a sorcerer more than Searing Spell because Consecrate Spell works with more than just [Fire] spells. What do you think? I disagree - consecrate spell works better for bypassing fire immunity, but fire resistance is a lot more common than immunity (and even resistance 10 does horrible things to your scorching rays). Consecrate Spell doesn't help much against resistance - as an example, say you cast empowered scorching ray, average 21 damage / ray, then searing spell would mean that all of it gets through vs fire resistance 10, while consecrate spell would mean that each ray does 11 fire and 10 holy, so 11 total damage / ray gets through - you don't actually do any extra damage due to consecrate spell. Searing spell also has a nice extra benefit against fire-vulnerable creatures. I would just pick mostly fire spells and have a cold or force spell (probably an orb) as a backup. Transdimensional spell wouldn't be a bad idea if you could spare the feats. Nonlethal substitution (fire) could also be handy. As always, the limiting factor is feat slots. jstorrie is probably right that Spell Focus + Metamagic School Focus adds more to your blasting potential, but Draconic Heritage does give you the niceness of Gather Information as a class skill (and I have no idea what happens to your Gather Info ranks if you retrain out of Draconic Heritage at a later date... it quite possibly falls under "you can't retrain prereqs"). Have you thought about long-term spell selection, Ken? From what you said above, let's assume Sunstroke, Lesser Orb of Fire and Mage Armor at L4. If I was doing a fire-themed desert brass-draconic sorceress with the feats I posted above, I think my spell list would go something like: L4: add Glitterdust (blinding hot dust/sand swirl) L5: add Scorching Ray, Guided Shot L6: add Haste (fire is traditionally associated with swiftness), swap Sunstroke for Ray of Enfeeblement (a more precisely targeted and debilitating form of heatstroke) L7: add Fireball, Swift Fly, Feather Fall (both of the latter involve enhancing thermals / updrafts) L8: add Wall of Sand, swap Mage Armor for Friendly Face (enhancing brass-dragon-like powers) L9: add Orb of Force (distilled magical fire, the closest you can get to something like an archmage's Arcane Fire ability), Invisibility Sphere (heatwaves), Resist Energy / False Life (draconic aura grants either unnatural toughness or protection against elemental energies) L10: add Teleport (like haste, fire = swiftness) L11: add Mass Fly, Orb of Fire, (L3 spell of choice), (L2 spell of choice) L12: add Disintegrate (calling forth the fires within a person/object) or Greater Dispel Magic (burning up hostile spells) or Fires of Purity, swap Haste for Greater Magic Weapon (magical forge-fires) L13: add Contingency, Feeblemind (like ray of enfeeblement, but targeted on the mind rather than the body), Greater Invisibility L14: add Limited Wish L15: add Waves of Exhaustion / Control Weather, Greater Dispel or Disintegrate or Fires of Purity, (L5 spell of choice) Of course, that's just how I might do it, there are plenty of other ways to approach it, and it's your character not mine :)