Asherati Dervish Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Asherati Dervish Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
trollbill
12-01-06, 11:57 AM Okay, I am finally going to play Blood on Bright Sands. Here's the build I came up with:

Race: Asherati
ST: 16
DX: 14
CN: 14
IN: 14
WS: 8
CH: 8

1st: Scout - Skirmish +1d6, trapfinding, Dodge
2nd: Fighter - Martial weapon proficiency, Weapon Focus (eagle's claw)
3rd: Ranger - Track, wild empathy, favored enemy - undead, Eagle's Fury
4th: Ranger - +1 ST, Two-Weapon Fighting
5th: Fighter - Combat Expertise
6th: Scout - Battle Fortitude +1, uncanny dodge, Mobility
7th: Dervish - Dervish Dance 1/day, movement master, slashing blades
8th: Dervish - +1 ST, fast movement +5 ft.
9th: Dervish - Spring Attack, dervish dance 2/day, Improved Critical (eagle's claw)
10th: Dervish - Dance of Death
11th: Dervish - Fast movement +10 ft, dervish dance 3/day
12th: Dervish - +1 ST, improved reaction, ???
13th: Dervish - Elaborate parry, dervish dance 4/day
14th: Dervish - Fast movmement +15 ft.
15th: Dervish - Tireless dance, dervish dance 5/day, ???

Advantages: Lots of attacks for decent damage, descent Fort save, fabulous Reflex save, potentially high AC
Disadvantages: lousy Will save until higher levels, so-so hit points
Currently considered options - swapping out Improved Critical at 9th for Power Attack and taking Improved Critical at 12th. Swapping Improved-Two Weapon Fighting for Improve Buckler Defense.

Any comments or suggestions?
Jay_Ibero_911
12-01-06, 10:22 PM Certainly cool looking, but with TWF AND Eagle's Fury you will be facing hefty penalties...-6 to all your attacks(-2 from TWF, -2x2 for using Eagle's fury with both weapons...). Not AS muc of a problem at higher levels, but even at 15th you'll be at:
14 bab + 5 dervish dance + 1 focus + 1 weapon + 3 STR(base)-6=+18...

Okay, so not as big a deal at THAT point, but it will be annoying at first...Also, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting is practically worthless...spending a feat to get an off hand attack that probably won't hit anyway...Improved Two-Weapon Fighing is as far as I'd go, and even then it's usually not much value. Also take into account you have to be able to move enough to use all your attacks while dancing, and with 4 primary attacks that already eats up 20ft of movement. Overall cool build, but you'll want to hold back on the TWF/Eagle's Fury combo until you can get your bonuses higher. Until then, you just want to hit.
Mommy was an Orc
12-02-06, 02:04 AM Any comments or suggestions?

If you start off with a 15 Dex/14 Int instead of a 16 Dex/12 Int, you get level+3 skill points for free after 3rd level.

You don't want Improved Buckler Defense as you can't use a shield while Dervish Dancing. Have you looked at Elusive Target? You have all the prereqs.

Also, just to point out, those are near ideal Wood Elf stats you've got there - you're giving up 4 build points for Asherati - Asherati doesn't have a Con penalty, I'd take advantage of it by getting a 14 Con. I might also consider going Scout 1/Ranger 6/Dervish 8 - significantly better skill points, but more importantly, you then only really need a 14 Dex, and can therefore level Strength instead.

GTWF is mostly for show - lousy feat - taking that -14 to hit is going to hurt.
Maesto
12-02-06, 10:18 AM Agreed on the GTWF.

Note that the eagle's claw is a light weapon, so no power attacky goodness for you.

I'd actually advocate against imp crit. Your on-hand will do 1d6+3 to start with; if you have a +4 belt and make it magic +1 then you're up to 1d6+6. Yay. Most of your damage will come from the other dice that stack up on top of this, such as alignment based/skirmish/elemental, which don't multiply on a crit. I guess my point is that imp crit isn't giving you all that much more damage, especially when your later attacks may well not even be hitting on the improved threat range. I'd take elusive target to compensate for squishiness, although others may advocate differently. Note that this analysis falls apart if you can legitimately expect buffs such as fires of purity regularly, in which case you will shine (regardless).

Mommy's point about int is a good one.

Note that asherati is kind of required for this build, because of the eagle's claw martial weapony goodness as opposed to taking ExWProf.

Don't bother with improved buckler defense, especially if you're going to take it late in the build. What tends to happen is that you get access to an animated shield, and then you say "wow, what a wasted feat...". However, if you take it at 3rd (grumbles something about the third level rule), you can certainly get 7 or 8 good levels of use out of it.

cheers,

Jolyon
trollbill
12-03-06, 03:32 PM Good suggestions, folks1

I modified the character to how I ended up playing it in Blood on Bright Sands on Saturday. We had an Asherati fighter, 2 centaurs and a human sorcerer and my character shown light the sun even though she never used body lamp. I was as good as any of the frontline fighters, only got hit once the entire night (good thing since we had no healers) and I am very pleased with Sand Swim when it can be used.

Certainly cool looking, but with TWF AND Eagle's Fury you will be facing hefty penalties...-6 to all your attacks(-2 from TWF, -2x2 for using Eagle's fury with both weapons...). Not AS muc of a problem at higher levels, but even at 15th you'll be at:
14 bab + 5 dervish dance + 1 focus + 1 weapon + 3 STR(base)-6=+18...

The wording on Eagle’s Fury + TWF to get 4 attacks at -6 (instead of 3 at -4) looks “subject to DM’s interpretation” to me. Is there any official FAQ/errata to confirm how this works?

Also take into account you have to be able to move enough to use all your attacks while dancing, and with 4 primary attacks that already eats up 20ft of movement.

Well, I did figure that Boots of Speed would be a very high priority purchase for this character.

If you start off with a 15 Dex/14 Int instead of a 16 Dex/12 Int, you get level+3 skill points for free after 3rd level.

Excellent advice. I was so focused on the Dex for the TWF route, I didn’t see how much of a waste it was. The extra skill points proved useful in the mod as I was the only one with Knowledge skills.

You don't want Improved Buckler Defense as you can't use a shield while Dervish Dancing.

Thanks, forgot that.

Have you looked at Elusive Target? You have all the prereqs.

Yes. That was one of the first things that came to mind. Though to be really useful I would want Improved Trip to go with it. I decided against it though simply because I already have a spiked chain wielding monk with Improved Trip and Elusive Target that does this trick, so I wanted to avoid redundancy.

Also, just to point out, those are near ideal Wood Elf stats you've got there - you're giving up 4 build points for Asherati - Asherati doesn't have a Con penalty, I'd take advantage of it by getting a 14 Con.

Advice followed.

I might also consider going Scout 1/Ranger 6/Dervish 8 - significantly better skill points, but more importantly, you then only really need a 14 Dex, and can therefore level Strength instead.

Nice thought, but this route wouldn't give me enough feats to become a Dervish.

GTWF is mostly for show - lousy feat - taking that -14 to hit is going to hurt.

Indeed. It was a rather half-thought out concept at that point since it came so late in the build. If I decide I really want ITWF, I can always invest in +4 Gauntlets of Dexterity by the time I reach 12th.

Note that the eagle's claw is a light weapon, so no power attacky goodness for you.

Good point. I play light weapon fighters so infrequently I hadn’t even noticed this little detail about power attack.

I'd actually advocate against imp crit. Your on-hand will do 1d6+3 to start with; if you have a +4 belt and make it magic +1 then you're up to 1d6+6.

Granted it’s not nearly as effective as Improved Critical on a Greatsword, but it is still something that adds to the damage, which is probably worth the feat. Note that the extra damage from Dervish Dance would multiply with the crit.
Jay_Ibero_911
12-04-06, 06:18 PM You really should consider Elusive Target. It's worth it for Negate Power Attack alone, which could save you hundreds of dollars in car insurance....wait...I think I'm confusing something here...
Morgen
12-17-06, 05:28 AM If you didn't mind, you could take a level of Exotic Weapon Master to take the Two-weapon exotic fighting trick to lessen the penalty for fighting with two eagle's claws a little.

Just a thought.

My Asherati is going Sacred Fist.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
trollbill 12-01-06, 11:57 AM	Okay, I am finally going to play Blood on Bright Sands. Here's the build I came up with: Race: Asherati ST: 16 DX: 14 CN: 14 IN: 14 WS: 8 CH: 8 1st: Scout - Skirmish +1d6, trapfinding, Dodge 2nd: Fighter - Martial weapon proficiency, Weapon Focus (eagle's claw) 3rd: Ranger - Track, wild empathy, favored enemy - undead, Eagle's Fury 4th: Ranger - +1 ST, Two-Weapon Fighting 5th: Fighter - Combat Expertise 6th: Scout - Battle Fortitude +1, uncanny dodge, Mobility 7th: Dervish - Dervish Dance 1/day, movement master, slashing blades 8th: Dervish - +1 ST, fast movement +5 ft. 9th: Dervish - Spring Attack, dervish dance 2/day, Improved Critical (eagle's claw) 10th: Dervish - Dance of Death 11th: Dervish - Fast movement +10 ft, dervish dance 3/day 12th: Dervish - +1 ST, improved reaction, ??? 13th: Dervish - Elaborate parry, dervish dance 4/day 14th: Dervish - Fast movmement +15 ft. 15th: Dervish - Tireless dance, dervish dance 5/day, ??? Advantages: Lots of attacks for decent damage, descent Fort save, fabulous Reflex save, potentially high AC Disadvantages: lousy Will save until higher levels, so-so hit points Currently considered options - swapping out Improved Critical at 9th for Power Attack and taking Improved Critical at 12th. Swapping Improved-Two Weapon Fighting for Improve Buckler Defense. Any comments or suggestions?
Jay_Ibero_911 12-01-06, 10:22 PM	Certainly cool looking, but with TWF AND Eagle's Fury you will be facing hefty penalties...-6 to all your attacks(-2 from TWF, -2x2 for using Eagle's fury with both weapons...). Not AS muc of a problem at higher levels, but even at 15th you'll be at: 14 bab + 5 dervish dance + 1 focus + 1 weapon + 3 STR(base)-6=+18... Okay, so not as big a deal at THAT point, but it will be annoying at first...Also, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting is practically worthless...spending a feat to get an off hand attack that probably won't hit anyway...Improved Two-Weapon Fighing is as far as I'd go, and even then it's usually not much value. Also take into account you have to be able to move enough to use all your attacks while dancing, and with 4 primary attacks that already eats up 20ft of movement. Overall cool build, but you'll want to hold back on the TWF/Eagle's Fury combo until you can get your bonuses higher. Until then, you just want to hit.
Mommy was an Orc 12-02-06, 02:04 AM	Any comments or suggestions? If you start off with a 15 Dex/14 Int instead of a 16 Dex/12 Int, you get level+3 skill points for free after 3rd level. You don't want Improved Buckler Defense as you can't use a shield while Dervish Dancing. Have you looked at Elusive Target? You have all the prereqs. Also, just to point out, those are near ideal Wood Elf stats you've got there - you're giving up 4 build points for Asherati - Asherati doesn't have a Con penalty, I'd take advantage of it by getting a 14 Con. I might also consider going Scout 1/Ranger 6/Dervish 8 - significantly better skill points, but more importantly, you then only really need a 14 Dex, and can therefore level Strength instead. GTWF is mostly for show - lousy feat - taking that -14 to hit is going to hurt.
Maesto 12-02-06, 10:18 AM	Agreed on the GTWF. Note that the eagle's claw is a light weapon, so no power attacky goodness for you. I'd actually advocate against imp crit. Your on-hand will do 1d6+3 to start with; if you have a +4 belt and make it magic +1 then you're up to 1d6+6. Yay. Most of your damage will come from the other dice that stack up on top of this, such as alignment based/skirmish/elemental, which don't multiply on a crit. I guess my point is that imp crit isn't giving you all that much more damage, especially when your later attacks may well not even be hitting on the improved threat range. I'd take elusive target to compensate for squishiness, although others may advocate differently. Note that this analysis falls apart if you can legitimately expect buffs such as fires of purity regularly, in which case you will shine (regardless). Mommy's point about int is a good one. Note that asherati is kind of required for this build, because of the eagle's claw martial weapony goodness as opposed to taking ExWProf. Don't bother with improved buckler defense, especially if you're going to take it late in the build. What tends to happen is that you get access to an animated shield, and then you say "wow, what a wasted feat...". However, if you take it at 3rd (grumbles something about the third level rule), you can certainly get 7 or 8 good levels of use out of it. cheers, Jolyon
trollbill 12-03-06, 03:32 PM	Good suggestions, folks1 I modified the character to how I ended up playing it in Blood on Bright Sands on Saturday. We had an Asherati fighter, 2 centaurs and a human sorcerer and my character shown light the sun even though she never used body lamp. I was as good as any of the frontline fighters, only got hit once the entire night (good thing since we had no healers) and I am very pleased with Sand Swim when it can be used. Certainly cool looking, but with TWF AND Eagle's Fury you will be facing hefty penalties...-6 to all your attacks(-2 from TWF, -2x2 for using Eagle's fury with both weapons...). Not AS muc of a problem at higher levels, but even at 15th you'll be at: 14 bab + 5 dervish dance + 1 focus + 1 weapon + 3 STR(base)-6=+18... The wording on Eagle’s Fury + TWF to get 4 attacks at -6 (instead of 3 at -4) looks “subject to DM’s interpretation” to me. Is there any official FAQ/errata to confirm how this works? Also take into account you have to be able to move enough to use all your attacks while dancing, and with 4 primary attacks that already eats up 20ft of movement. Well, I did figure that Boots of Speed would be a very high priority purchase for this character. If you start off with a 15 Dex/14 Int instead of a 16 Dex/12 Int, you get level+3 skill points for free after 3rd level. Excellent advice. I was so focused on the Dex for the TWF route, I didn’t see how much of a waste it was. The extra skill points proved useful in the mod as I was the only one with Knowledge skills. You don't want Improved Buckler Defense as you can't use a shield while Dervish Dancing. Thanks, forgot that. Have you looked at Elusive Target? You have all the prereqs. Yes. That was one of the first things that came to mind. Though to be really useful I would want Improved Trip to go with it. I decided against it though simply because I already have a spiked chain wielding monk with Improved Trip and Elusive Target that does this trick, so I wanted to avoid redundancy. Also, just to point out, those are near ideal Wood Elf stats you've got there - you're giving up 4 build points for Asherati - Asherati doesn't have a Con penalty, I'd take advantage of it by getting a 14 Con. Advice followed. I might also consider going Scout 1/Ranger 6/Dervish 8 - significantly better skill points, but more importantly, you then only really need a 14 Dex, and can therefore level Strength instead. Nice thought, but this route wouldn't give me enough feats to become a Dervish. GTWF is mostly for show - lousy feat - taking that -14 to hit is going to hurt. Indeed. It was a rather half-thought out concept at that point since it came so late in the build. If I decide I really want ITWF, I can always invest in +4 Gauntlets of Dexterity by the time I reach 12th. Note that the eagle's claw is a light weapon, so no power attacky goodness for you. Good point. I play light weapon fighters so infrequently I hadn’t even noticed this little detail about power attack. I'd actually advocate against imp crit. Your on-hand will do 1d6+3 to start with; if you have a +4 belt and make it magic +1 then you're up to 1d6+6. Granted it’s not nearly as effective as Improved Critical on a Greatsword, but it is still something that adds to the damage, which is probably worth the feat. Note that the extra damage from Dervish Dance would multiply with the crit.
Jay_Ibero_911 12-04-06, 06:18 PM	You really should consider Elusive Target. It's worth it for Negate Power Attack alone, which could save you hundreds of dollars in car insurance....wait...I think I'm confusing something here...
Morgen 12-17-06, 05:28 AM	If you didn't mind, you could take a level of Exotic Weapon Master to take the Two-weapon exotic fighting trick to lessen the penalty for fighting with two eagle's claws a little. Just a thought. My Asherati is going Sacred Fist.