Assassin build, yea, I know, work with me here [Archive] - Wizards Community

Assassin build, yea, I know, work with me here [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RanielK
02-24-07, 01:45 PM So, in another thread, I mentioned it would be possible to build towards retirement as an assassin at 16th. The basic thought is to be a Rng/Ftr/Rog up until 15th. At the end of the mod which gives you enough xp to level and retire, you kill an NPC for no other reason than to join the Assassins. You take the shift to evil (if that doesn't do it, what would?) and hand in your already completed 16th level character (last level taken is Assassin) to your local Triad and gen up a 1st level Paladin. Your new 1st is the kid of the NPC killed by your recently retired 16th.

I looked at the Realms' Artemis Entreri as a model, although he's a 52 point buy character and you need stat boost items in almost every stat to match him, besides loosing 1 skill point per level. I like Artemis' prefered tactic of dueling a guy with two weapon fighting and beating him outright versus poisoning him or stabbing him in his sleep.

The hard part would be skating the line without having your character taken away before 16th. After all, I was looking for a character who upon hearing about his retirement, most people would say "yep, I figured he'd go that way back at third level. That 'bounty hunter' cover story was mighty thin." The build looks something like this:

Artemis Entreri build
Male human Rog 4/Rgr 2/Ftr 12/Asn 1
AL LN (LE at retirement)
14 (6) 14 (6) 12 (4) 14 (6) 12 (4) 10 (2) (28 points) (all stat bumps to Dex; need amulet of health +4, cloak Cha +4, Gloves of Dex +2 and Headband of Int +2 to equal original's stats)

1 Rog 1 WF (longsword) (1), WF (dagger) (h), +1d6 sneak attack, trapfinding
2 Rgr 1 Track (b), favored enemy (human)
3 Rgr 2 Two Weapon Fight (b), Improved Two Weapon Fight (3)
4 Ftr 1 Dodge (f1)
5 Ftr 2 Mobility (f2)
6 Ftr 3 Spring Attack (6)
7 Rog 2 Evasion
8 Ftr 4 WS (longsword) (f4)
9 Rog 3 WS (dagger) (9), +2d6 sneak attack, trap sense +1
10 Ftr 5
11 Ftr 6 Combat Reflexes (f6)
12 Ftr 7 Expertise (12)
13 Ftr 8 Imp Crit (longsword)* (f8)
14 Ftr 9
15 Ftr 10 Imp Crit (dagger)* (f10), Quick Draw (15)
16 Asn 1** sneak attack +3d6, death attack, poison use, spells, removed from campaign
17 Ftr 11***
18 Ftr 12*** Blind fight**** (f12), Improved Initiative**** (18)
19 Rog 4*** Uncanny dodge, 20% xp/gp penalty, but he belongs to the Triad now so who cares

* Possibly replace GWF (longsword) and GWF (dagger) (chosen because they were the original feats for Artemis)
** At the end of mod on which will gain 16th level and retire, kill an NPC for no other reason than becoming an assassin, accept LE shift and removal from campaign, hand in premade character as Rgr 2/Rog 3/Ftr 10/Asn 1.
*** Only as a Triad run NPC
**** Possibly replace w/ GWS (longsword) and GWS (dagger) (as above in *)

Not sure how I would divide up his skill points as Artemis is also a master of disguise (bluff, decipher script, disguise, handle animal, forgery), a nimble fighter (escape artist, jump, tumble), a stealthy killer (balance, climb, hide, move silent, listen, disable device, open lock, search and slight of hand) and a great judge of character (diplomacy, gather info, Knowledge (local), sense motive) making keeping up with his skill points nigh on impossible. The original build started with a 16 Int and spread his skill points to make good use of the stats a 52 point buy could give him. I can make up with stat boost items (yea open access), but can't close the gap on skill points without sacrificing some other stats in the build.

Now the only question is how do I build the paladin?:D
Britt
02-24-07, 02:09 PM The assassin I'm building in XE is using Ability Focus (Death Attack) and super high dex/int. Your build is a different focus, but it's something to consider.
RanielK
02-24-07, 02:37 PM Yea, I consider him more of a deulist for hire who out fights his opponent (mark), than a true sneak up and stab 'em assassin. I'm looking at maxing tumble with some balance, bluff, jump, and diplomacy (gotta hash out those contracts, though for some reason, he keeps getting paid APL appropriate gold) and possibly adding hide, move silent, disguise and the like to 'blend in' or disappear.

I'm considering where to work in Bounding assult (PH2 p 75) to get in two attacks with a Spring attack. I'm also looking at Acrobatic strike (PH2 p 71), though not sure if tumbling to avoid AOO's and Spring attack necessarily work togather, because in order to benefit from the +4 to hit from Acrobatic strike the target must have been evaded by tumbling, but Spring Attack doesn't provoke AOO's from the target of the attack.
Britt
02-24-07, 02:43 PM I think you might want to consider an evil version of some other PrC, since the assassin abilities are targeted at sneaking up and stabbing someone in the back. You might want a Bloodhound or something like that. Basically, be an assassin without being an Assassin.
Ira_Dei
02-24-07, 04:02 PM Can't take WF as a level 1 rogue - you need +1 BAB. Also, Rogues are not proficient with longsword. Taking ITWF needs a +6 BAB and a dex of 17, so can't do that at third. But I like the idea.
RanielK
02-24-07, 04:16 PM Can't take WF as a level 1 rogue - you need +1 BAB. Also, Rogues are not proficient with longsword. Taking ITWF needs a +6 BAB and a dex of 17, so can't do that at third. But I like the idea.

Yeah, I forgot about the +1 BAB. So just switch Dodge and Mobility with the Weapon Focuses. Then switch Combat Reflexes to 3rd, Expertise to 11th and ITWF to 12th and take Dex bumps the whole way (which I planed to do as the original Artemis has a 20 dex with no stat boost items).

And as far as the Assassin PrC is concerned, its really only there for RP purposes. After all, the evil act necessary to enter is what removes/retires him from the game. Besides, it just adds the 'coolness' factor to say he is an assassin and back it up with the PrC. Add to that, every once in awhile, he will sneak up and stab someone in the back.
Sieylianna
02-24-07, 04:59 PM As long as you're not in a hurry to get to assassin and you need a number of stat bump items to get where you are going, why don't you pick up three levels in a spellcasting class for craft wondrous item?

Ed
Mommy was an Orc
02-24-07, 06:41 PM Have you looked at Daring Outlaw? Allows Swashbuckler and Rogue levels to stack for Sneak Attack - Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 12 has +8d6 of Sneak Attack damage as an example.
RanielK
02-25-07, 01:06 PM Have you looked at Daring Outlaw? Allows Swashbuckler and Rogue levels to stack for Sneak Attack - Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 12 has +8d6 of Sneak Attack damage as an example.

Actually, that's quite brilliant. It meets my desire for a duelist for hire who is a little underhanded (not to mention amoral). What book is Daring Outlaw from?
Mommy was an Orc
02-25-07, 02:45 PM Actually, that's quite brilliant. It meets my desire for a duelist for hire who is a little underhanded (not to mention amoral). What book is Daring Outlaw from?

Complete Scoundrel. Daring Outlaw really destroys the concept of a PrC that gives fullBAB, 4 skill points per level, and less than +1d6 Sneak/2 levels as anything other than a dip.
bitznarf
02-26-07, 11:50 AM Complete Scoundrel. Daring Outlaw really destroys the concept of a PrC that gives fullBAB, 4 skill points per level, and less than +1d6 Sneak/2 levels as anything other than a dip.

I like to think that Daring Outlaw (and other gestalt style feats) promote the base classes, making them once again viable choices, as these feats become more effective the further into the base classes you get.
Mommy was an Orc
02-26-07, 03:20 PM I like to think that Daring Outlaw (and other gestalt style feats) promote the base classes, making them once again viable choices, as these feats become more effective the further into the base classes you get.

Oh, they definitely do - but there are a bunch of 'FullBAB, 4 skill points per level, d8 hp, advance sneak attack damage every 3 levels' PrCs that are just blown away by Swashbuckler with its d10s and +1d6/2 levels.

Especially with retraining - use it every other level to retrain either Search or Disable Device up 4 ranks.
UMiskatonic
02-26-07, 03:43 PM Swashbuckler also gives you great INT synergy.

INT drives skill points
INT drives certain skills
INT drives swash bonus damage
INT drives assassin spellcasting
and, I think INT drives your shabby death attack DC too

What's not to love?

Also, remember all of those '+5 to a skill' items. A hat of disguise and a good bluff check make you a pretty good master of disguise for half the skill points. I also love the circlet of persuasion, shadowed, silent armor, or elixirs of hiding/sneaking/vision, ring of lockpicking, etc...

With one skill point in disguise, an ok charisma, a circlet of persuasion, a good bluff skill, and upkeep bonuses (iirc), you'll do pretty well without the hat of disguise.
Puggle Halfwine
02-26-07, 05:28 PM I don't have my books with me at the moment, but I think Deep Warden (Complete Warrior?) gives +5 BAB over 5 levels and on the 5th level allows you to make a Death Attack like an assassin. To the best of my knowledge this is legal in LG.
jstorrie
02-26-07, 05:31 PM You're thinking of 'Dark Hunter.'

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RanielK 02-24-07, 01:45 PM	So, in another thread, I mentioned it would be possible to build towards retirement as an assassin at 16th. The basic thought is to be a Rng/Ftr/Rog up until 15th. At the end of the mod which gives you enough xp to level and retire, you kill an NPC for no other reason than to join the Assassins. You take the shift to evil (if that doesn't do it, what would?) and hand in your already completed 16th level character (last level taken is Assassin) to your local Triad and gen up a 1st level Paladin. Your new 1st is the kid of the NPC killed by your recently retired 16th. I looked at the Realms' Artemis Entreri as a model, although he's a 52 point buy character and you need stat boost items in almost every stat to match him, besides loosing 1 skill point per level. I like Artemis' prefered tactic of dueling a guy with two weapon fighting and beating him outright versus poisoning him or stabbing him in his sleep. The hard part would be skating the line without having your character taken away before 16th. After all, I was looking for a character who upon hearing about his retirement, most people would say "yep, I figured he'd go that way back at third level. That 'bounty hunter' cover story was mighty thin." The build looks something like this: Artemis Entreri build Male human Rog 4/Rgr 2/Ftr 12/Asn 1 AL LN (LE at retirement) 14 (6) 14 (6) 12 (4) 14 (6) 12 (4) 10 (2) (28 points) (all stat bumps to Dex; need amulet of health +4, cloak Cha +4, Gloves of Dex +2 and Headband of Int +2 to equal original's stats) 1 Rog 1 WF (longsword) (1), WF (dagger) (h), +1d6 sneak attack, trapfinding 2 Rgr 1 Track (b), favored enemy (human) 3 Rgr 2 Two Weapon Fight (b), Improved Two Weapon Fight (3) 4 Ftr 1 Dodge (f1) 5 Ftr 2 Mobility (f2) 6 Ftr 3 Spring Attack (6) 7 Rog 2 Evasion 8 Ftr 4 WS (longsword) (f4) 9 Rog 3 WS (dagger) (9), +2d6 sneak attack, trap sense +1 10 Ftr 5 11 Ftr 6 Combat Reflexes (f6) 12 Ftr 7 Expertise (12) 13 Ftr 8 Imp Crit (longsword)* (f8) 14 Ftr 9 15 Ftr 10 Imp Crit (dagger)* (f10), Quick Draw (15) 16 Asn 1 sneak attack +3d6, death attack, poison use, spells, removed from campaign 17 Ftr 11* 18 Ftr 12* Blind fight (f12), Improved Initiative (18) 19 Rog 4* Uncanny dodge, 20% xp/gp penalty, but he belongs to the Triad now so who cares * Possibly replace GWF (longsword) and GWF (dagger) (chosen because they were the original feats for Artemis) At the end of mod on which will gain 16th level and retire, kill an NPC for no other reason than becoming an assassin, accept LE shift and removal from campaign, hand in premade character as Rgr 2/Rog 3/Ftr 10/Asn 1. * Only as a Triad run NPC **** Possibly replace w/ GWS (longsword) and GWS (dagger) (as above in *) Not sure how I would divide up his skill points as Artemis is also a master of disguise (bluff, decipher script, disguise, handle animal, forgery), a nimble fighter (escape artist, jump, tumble), a stealthy killer (balance, climb, hide, move silent, listen, disable device, open lock, search and slight of hand) and a great judge of character (diplomacy, gather info, Knowledge (local), sense motive) making keeping up with his skill points nigh on impossible. The original build started with a 16 Int and spread his skill points to make good use of the stats a 52 point buy could give him. I can make up with stat boost items (yea open access), but can't close the gap on skill points without sacrificing some other stats in the build. Now the only question is how do I build the paladin?:D
Britt 02-24-07, 02:09 PM	The assassin I'm building in XE is using Ability Focus (Death Attack) and super high dex/int. Your build is a different focus, but it's something to consider.
RanielK 02-24-07, 02:37 PM	Yea, I consider him more of a deulist for hire who out fights his opponent (mark), than a true sneak up and stab 'em assassin. I'm looking at maxing tumble with some balance, bluff, jump, and diplomacy (gotta hash out those contracts, though for some reason, he keeps getting paid APL appropriate gold) and possibly adding hide, move silent, disguise and the like to 'blend in' or disappear. I'm considering where to work in Bounding assult (PH2 p 75) to get in two attacks with a Spring attack. I'm also looking at Acrobatic strike (PH2 p 71), though not sure if tumbling to avoid AOO's and Spring attack necessarily work togather, because in order to benefit from the +4 to hit from Acrobatic strike the target must have been evaded by tumbling, but Spring Attack doesn't provoke AOO's from the target of the attack.
Britt 02-24-07, 02:43 PM	I think you might want to consider an evil version of some other PrC, since the assassin abilities are targeted at sneaking up and stabbing someone in the back. You might want a Bloodhound or something like that. Basically, be an assassin without being an Assassin.
Ira_Dei 02-24-07, 04:02 PM	Can't take WF as a level 1 rogue - you need +1 BAB. Also, Rogues are not proficient with longsword. Taking ITWF needs a +6 BAB and a dex of 17, so can't do that at third. But I like the idea.
RanielK 02-24-07, 04:16 PM	Can't take WF as a level 1 rogue - you need +1 BAB. Also, Rogues are not proficient with longsword. Taking ITWF needs a +6 BAB and a dex of 17, so can't do that at third. But I like the idea. Yeah, I forgot about the +1 BAB. So just switch Dodge and Mobility with the Weapon Focuses. Then switch Combat Reflexes to 3rd, Expertise to 11th and ITWF to 12th and take Dex bumps the whole way (which I planed to do as the original Artemis has a 20 dex with no stat boost items). And as far as the Assassin PrC is concerned, its really only there for RP purposes. After all, the evil act necessary to enter is what removes/retires him from the game. Besides, it just adds the 'coolness' factor to say he is an assassin and back it up with the PrC. Add to that, every once in awhile, he will sneak up and stab someone in the back.
Sieylianna 02-24-07, 04:59 PM	As long as you're not in a hurry to get to assassin and you need a number of stat bump items to get where you are going, why don't you pick up three levels in a spellcasting class for craft wondrous item? Ed
Mommy was an Orc 02-24-07, 06:41 PM	Have you looked at Daring Outlaw? Allows Swashbuckler and Rogue levels to stack for Sneak Attack - Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 12 has +8d6 of Sneak Attack damage as an example.
RanielK 02-25-07, 01:06 PM	Have you looked at Daring Outlaw? Allows Swashbuckler and Rogue levels to stack for Sneak Attack - Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 12 has +8d6 of Sneak Attack damage as an example. Actually, that's quite brilliant. It meets my desire for a duelist for hire who is a little underhanded (not to mention amoral). What book is Daring Outlaw from?
Mommy was an Orc 02-25-07, 02:45 PM	Actually, that's quite brilliant. It meets my desire for a duelist for hire who is a little underhanded (not to mention amoral). What book is Daring Outlaw from? Complete Scoundrel. Daring Outlaw really destroys the concept of a PrC that gives fullBAB, 4 skill points per level, and less than +1d6 Sneak/2 levels as anything other than a dip.
bitznarf 02-26-07, 11:50 AM	Complete Scoundrel. Daring Outlaw really destroys the concept of a PrC that gives fullBAB, 4 skill points per level, and less than +1d6 Sneak/2 levels as anything other than a dip. I like to think that Daring Outlaw (and other gestalt style feats) promote the base classes, making them once again viable choices, as these feats become more effective the further into the base classes you get.
Mommy was an Orc 02-26-07, 03:20 PM	I like to think that Daring Outlaw (and other gestalt style feats) promote the base classes, making them once again viable choices, as these feats become more effective the further into the base classes you get. Oh, they definitely do - but there are a bunch of 'FullBAB, 4 skill points per level, d8 hp, advance sneak attack damage every 3 levels' PrCs that are just blown away by Swashbuckler with its d10s and +1d6/2 levels. Especially with retraining - use it every other level to retrain either Search or Disable Device up 4 ranks.
UMiskatonic 02-26-07, 03:43 PM	Swashbuckler also gives you great INT synergy. INT drives skill points INT drives certain skills INT drives swash bonus damage INT drives assassin spellcasting and, I think INT drives your shabby death attack DC too What's not to love? Also, remember all of those '+5 to a skill' items. A hat of disguise and a good bluff check make you a pretty good master of disguise for half the skill points. I also love the circlet of persuasion, shadowed, silent armor, or elixirs of hiding/sneaking/vision, ring of lockpicking, etc... With one skill point in disguise, an ok charisma, a circlet of persuasion, a good bluff skill, and upkeep bonuses (iirc), you'll do pretty well without the hat of disguise.
Puggle Halfwine 02-26-07, 05:28 PM	I don't have my books with me at the moment, but I think Deep Warden (Complete Warrior?) gives +5 BAB over 5 levels and on the 5th level allows you to make a Death Attack like an assassin. To the best of my knowledge this is legal in LG.
jstorrie 02-26-07, 05:31 PM	You're thinking of 'Dark Hunter.'