Augmented Familiar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Augmented Familiar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hasdrubal
10-16-07, 02:35 PM Hi all!

My Hexblade will be able to get a familiar in the future, and I plan to get one that could potentially help my character in combat.

I'm considering taking a Winter Wolf as an augmented familiar, is it a viable option in LG or is it too frowned upon? Those beasts are usually neutral evil, but I could get one that's true neutral... (or is that argument not relevant?).

If not relevant, what sort of familiar would you recommend?
jstorrie
10-16-07, 03:34 PM Hippogriffs are generally 'the best choice,' though a Hexblade with a Howler and a Dark Companion could seriously debuff people.
Hariman
10-16-07, 07:38 PM Hippogriffs are generally 'the best choice,' though a Hexblade with a Howler and a Dark Companion could seriously debuff people.

You give up your familiar to gain a Dark Companion.

BUT, I think Blink Dogs are worth mentioning, as they basically give you free flanking almost every round. Not to mention the fact that they protect themselves better than hippogriffs.

Hippogriffs are a good choice too. They can Fly and aren't that bad in combat.

Just don't forget that you still lose EXP if your improved familiar dies.
jstorrie
10-16-07, 09:24 PM You could take Obtain Familiar to get a Dark Companion and a familiar, couldn't you?
Hasdrubal
10-17-07, 08:28 AM You could take Obtain Familiar to get a Dark Companion and a familiar, couldn't you?

Yes you could, but with this in mind, you would get the Dark Companion at level 4, take the Obtain Familiar feat at level 6, and get the Augmented Familiar feat at level 9... that's a long way to go! Not mentioning the fact that you have to come from the Greyhawk region to be able to swap the familiar for the Dark Companion at level 4...
jstorrie
10-17-07, 12:21 PM You wouldn't be able to get a hippogriff anyway until level 7 because of the BAB restriction, so I don't see this being too much of a problem. You could take Obtain Familiar at level 3, really, since you don't have a familiar then, and then take Augmented at 6.
Hariman
10-17-07, 09:43 PM Yes you could, but with this in mind, you would get the Dark Companion at level 4, take the Obtain Familiar feat at level 6, and get the Augmented Familiar feat at level 9... that's a long way to go! Not mentioning the fact that you have to come from the Greyhawk region to be able to swap the familiar for the Dark Companion at level 4...

I didn't even notice that Obtain Familiar was open. That makes a Dark Companion Hexblade more interesting. But it still costs 2 feats.
Hasdrubal
10-18-07, 10:44 AM You wouldn't be able to get a hippogriff anyway until level 7 because of the BAB restriction, so I don't see this being too much of a problem. You could take Obtain Familiar at level 3, really, since you don't have a familiar then, and then take Augmented at 6.

I hadn't spotted that Practised Spellcaster was increasing the caster level even if your PC doesn't have a spellcaster ability yet. So that works out quite well!
jstorrie
10-19-07, 02:47 AM Actually... it doesn't work that well. You can take Practiced Spellcaster before level 4 as a Hexblade, and that works fine, but you still have no caster level until you hit Hexblade 4; you still need arcane caster level 3 to take Obtain Familiar. With Practiced Spellcaster and at least Hexblade 6, yes, you can take Augmented Familiar... but this is pretty kludgy. You could, conceivably, build as follows:

16 14 14 8 8 14
Human
1 Barbarian: Extra Rage, Intimidating Rage
2 Hexblade
3 Hexblade: Practiced Spellcaster
4 Hexblade
5 Hexblade (Dark Companion ACF)
6 Hexblade: Obtain Familiar, Spell Focus (Enchantment)
7 Hexblade
8 Hexblade
9 Hexblade: Improved Familiar (Howler)
10+ Hexblade (suggested feats: Leadership, Ability Focus (Hexblade's Curse), Reckless Rage, Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment, Retributive Spell, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Arcane Strike)

There are a few silver linings here. First of all, if you get a familiar via Obtain Familiar, its abilities are based straight on your Hexblade level, rather than your level -3 (although, in this case, you're level -1 from your Barbarian dip). Howlers already start with Dex 17 and nat AC +5, and with a minimum of another +4 by the time you get it (so AC 22) they are fairly resilient. It's still stuck with half your hit points, though, so prioritize your Con amulet. Put whatever protective items you have access to and legal can fit on a large monstrous beast on it. Don't take it into town, Howlers generally being KOS in civilized areas–well, maybe you could ride it into Highport and look like a real badass, huh?

This honestly isn't a bad way to go, as far as Hexblade builds go–you have 4 ways to debuff (Dark Companion, Howler, Curse, Intimidating Rage) which means you can often land your own budget Hexblade spells; keep in mind that Hexblades get a few good spells at lower levels, and if you have your debuffs up, your saves will be as hard to make as a Wizard's normally would, so you can drop Tasha's, Confusion, Phantasmal Killer, etc., for the win. Keep in mind especially those spells like the above that are at 'budget levels' for Hexblades, as they pack a lot of punch, and most are Illusion or Enchantment school for the extra Focus boost. If you need your Howler to tank, you can drop Augment Familiar on it and mock-Druid. I'm not a big fan of Hexblade, but I'd play this build; it's got some neat kicks to it. As far as 'trick builds' go, I'd rather sit with this one than a no-BAB marshal mutt or a diplomacizer bard... especially if I was playing a spellcaster. I mean, -10 to enemy saves? Are we playing Baldur's Gate here?
Hariman
10-23-07, 04:29 AM Actually... it doesn't work that well. You can take Practiced Spellcaster before level 4 as a Hexblade, and that works fine, but you still have no caster level until you hit Hexblade 4; you still need arcane caster level 3 to take Obtain Familiar. With Practiced Spellcaster and at least Hexblade 6, yes, you can take Augmented Familiar... but this is pretty kludgy. You could, conceivably, build as follows:

16 14 14 8 8 14
Human
1 Barbarian: Extra Rage, Intimidating Rage
2 Hexblade
3 Hexblade: Practiced Spellcaster
4 Hexblade
5 Hexblade (Dark Companion ACF)
6 Hexblade: Obtain Familiar, Spell Focus (Enchantment)
7 Hexblade
8 Hexblade
9 Hexblade: Improved Familiar (Howler)
10+ Hexblade (suggested feats: Leadership, Ability Focus (Hexblade's Curse), Reckless Rage, Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment, Retributive Spell, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Arcane Strike)

There are a few silver linings here. First of all, if you get a familiar via Obtain Familiar, its abilities are based straight on your Hexblade level, rather than your level -3 (although, in this case, you're level -1 from your Barbarian dip). Howlers already start with Dex 17 and nat AC +5, and with a minimum of another +4 by the time you get it (so AC 22) they are fairly resilient. It's still stuck with half your hit points, though, so prioritize your Con amulet. Put whatever protective items you have access to and legal can fit on a large monstrous beast on it. Don't take it into town, Howlers generally being KOS in civilized areas–well, maybe you could ride it into Highport and look like a real badass, huh?

This honestly isn't a bad way to go, as far as Hexblade builds go–you have 4 ways to debuff (Dark Companion, Howler, Curse, Intimidating Rage) which means you can often land your own budget Hexblade spells; keep in mind that Hexblades get a few good spells at lower levels, and if you have your debuffs up, your saves will be as hard to make as a Wizard's normally would, so you can drop Tasha's, Confusion, Phantasmal Killer, etc., for the win. Keep in mind especially those spells like the above that are at 'budget levels' for Hexblades, as they pack a lot of punch, and most are Illusion or Enchantment school for the extra Focus boost. If you need your Howler to tank, you can drop Augment Familiar on it and mock-Druid. I'm not a big fan of Hexblade, but I'd play this build; it's got some neat kicks to it. As far as 'trick builds' go, I'd rather sit with this one than a no-BAB marshal mutt or a diplomacizer bard... especially if I was playing a spellcaster. I mean, -10 to enemy saves? Are we playing Baldur's Gate here?

You don't need Practiced Spellcaster to do this. Practiced Spellcaster cannot increase your Arcane Spellcaster Level for prereqs. That's why you can't have a level 1 wizard with practiced spellcaster and Craft Wondrous Item.

That is also why you can take a Hippogriff at level 7 of Hexblade, despite having a caster level of 3. You have seven levels in an Arcane Spellcasting Class so you meet the Arcane Spellcaster Level Requirement.

And yes, stacking the negatives you can get from Hexblade in it's class features is cool. You just don't need to use Practiced Spellcaster to meet any prereqs. (And you can't.)
_metz_
10-23-07, 04:42 AM You don't need Practiced Spellcaster to do this. Practiced Spellcaster cannot increase your Arcane Spellcaster Level for prereqs. That's why you can't have a level 1 wizard with practiced spellcaster and Craft Wondrous Item.

Actually it does.

Don't know what you are citing.

Can be a fighter2/wiz1 with practiced spellcaster and you qualify when you can next take a feat, for Craft Wondrous Item.

From the RULES:

CRAFT WONDROUS ITEM [ITEM CREATION]
Prerequisite: Caster level 3rd.

Practiced spellcaster increases CASTER level so it does in fact allow you to meet the prerequisites.
jstorrie
10-23-07, 07:23 PM Practiced Spellcaster is still a good idea for anyone taking many levels of Hexblade. Tasha's for only 2 rounds is not such a great save-or-die.
Hariman
10-23-07, 08:53 PM Actually it does.

Don't know what you are citing.

Can be a fighter2/wiz1 with practiced spellcaster and you qualify when you can next take a feat, for Craft Wondrous Item.

Practiced spellcaster increases CASTER level so it does in fact allow you to meet the prerequisites.

Of item creation feats only. (You've got me there, I'm used to dealing with Prestige Classes and other feats.) Not for the prerequisites of the Improved Familiar feats, which have prereqs that are listed as "Arcane Spellcaster Level".

And yes, the Hexblade Caster Level sucks. Even paladins get a better caster level.

I'm citing the D&D FAQ, page 27.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hasdrubal 10-16-07, 02:35 PM	Hi all! My Hexblade will be able to get a familiar in the future, and I plan to get one that could potentially help my character in combat. I'm considering taking a Winter Wolf as an augmented familiar, is it a viable option in LG or is it too frowned upon? Those beasts are usually neutral evil, but I could get one that's true neutral... (or is that argument not relevant?). If not relevant, what sort of familiar would you recommend?
jstorrie 10-16-07, 03:34 PM	Hippogriffs are generally 'the best choice,' though a Hexblade with a Howler and a Dark Companion could seriously debuff people.
Hariman 10-16-07, 07:38 PM	Hippogriffs are generally 'the best choice,' though a Hexblade with a Howler and a Dark Companion could seriously debuff people. You give up your familiar to gain a Dark Companion. BUT, I think Blink Dogs are worth mentioning, as they basically give you free flanking almost every round. Not to mention the fact that they protect themselves better than hippogriffs. Hippogriffs are a good choice too. They can Fly and aren't that bad in combat. Just don't forget that you still lose EXP if your improved familiar dies.
jstorrie 10-16-07, 09:24 PM	You could take Obtain Familiar to get a Dark Companion and a familiar, couldn't you?
Hasdrubal 10-17-07, 08:28 AM	You could take Obtain Familiar to get a Dark Companion and a familiar, couldn't you? Yes you could, but with this in mind, you would get the Dark Companion at level 4, take the Obtain Familiar feat at level 6, and get the Augmented Familiar feat at level 9... that's a long way to go! Not mentioning the fact that you have to come from the Greyhawk region to be able to swap the familiar for the Dark Companion at level 4...
jstorrie 10-17-07, 12:21 PM	You wouldn't be able to get a hippogriff anyway until level 7 because of the BAB restriction, so I don't see this being too much of a problem. You could take Obtain Familiar at level 3, really, since you don't have a familiar then, and then take Augmented at 6.
Hariman 10-17-07, 09:43 PM	Yes you could, but with this in mind, you would get the Dark Companion at level 4, take the Obtain Familiar feat at level 6, and get the Augmented Familiar feat at level 9... that's a long way to go! Not mentioning the fact that you have to come from the Greyhawk region to be able to swap the familiar for the Dark Companion at level 4... I didn't even notice that Obtain Familiar was open. That makes a Dark Companion Hexblade more interesting. But it still costs 2 feats.
Hasdrubal 10-18-07, 10:44 AM	You wouldn't be able to get a hippogriff anyway until level 7 because of the BAB restriction, so I don't see this being too much of a problem. You could take Obtain Familiar at level 3, really, since you don't have a familiar then, and then take Augmented at 6. I hadn't spotted that Practised Spellcaster was increasing the caster level even if your PC doesn't have a spellcaster ability yet. So that works out quite well!
jstorrie 10-19-07, 02:47 AM	Actually... it doesn't work that well. You can take Practiced Spellcaster before level 4 as a Hexblade, and that works fine, but you still have no caster level until you hit Hexblade 4; you still need arcane caster level 3 to take Obtain Familiar. With Practiced Spellcaster and at least Hexblade 6, yes, you can take Augmented Familiar... but this is pretty kludgy. You could, conceivably, build as follows: 16 14 14 8 8 14 Human 1 Barbarian: Extra Rage, Intimidating Rage 2 Hexblade 3 Hexblade: Practiced Spellcaster 4 Hexblade 5 Hexblade (Dark Companion ACF) 6 Hexblade: Obtain Familiar, Spell Focus (Enchantment) 7 Hexblade 8 Hexblade 9 Hexblade: Improved Familiar (Howler) 10+ Hexblade (suggested feats: Leadership, Ability Focus (Hexblade's Curse), Reckless Rage, Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment, Retributive Spell, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Arcane Strike) There are a few silver linings here. First of all, if you get a familiar via Obtain Familiar, its abilities are based straight on your Hexblade level, rather than your level -3 (although, in this case, you're level -1 from your Barbarian dip). Howlers already start with Dex 17 and nat AC +5, and with a minimum of another +4 by the time you get it (so AC 22) they are fairly resilient. It's still stuck with half your hit points, though, so prioritize your Con amulet. Put whatever protective items you have access to and legal can fit on a large monstrous beast on it. Don't take it into town, Howlers generally being KOS in civilized areas–well, maybe you could ride it into Highport and look like a real badass, huh? This honestly isn't a bad way to go, as far as Hexblade builds go–you have 4 ways to debuff (Dark Companion, Howler, Curse, Intimidating Rage) which means you can often land your own budget Hexblade spells; keep in mind that Hexblades get a few good spells at lower levels, and if you have your debuffs up, your saves will be as hard to make as a Wizard's normally would, so you can drop Tasha's, Confusion, Phantasmal Killer, etc., for the win. Keep in mind especially those spells like the above that are at 'budget levels' for Hexblades, as they pack a lot of punch, and most are Illusion or Enchantment school for the extra Focus boost. If you need your Howler to tank, you can drop Augment Familiar on it and mock-Druid. I'm not a big fan of Hexblade, but I'd play this build; it's got some neat kicks to it. As far as 'trick builds' go, I'd rather sit with this one than a no-BAB marshal mutt or a diplomacizer bard... especially if I was playing a spellcaster. I mean, -10 to enemy saves? Are we playing Baldur's Gate here?
Hariman 10-23-07, 04:29 AM	Actually... it doesn't work that well. You can take Practiced Spellcaster before level 4 as a Hexblade, and that works fine, but you still have no caster level until you hit Hexblade 4; you still need arcane caster level 3 to take Obtain Familiar. With Practiced Spellcaster and at least Hexblade 6, yes, you can take Augmented Familiar... but this is pretty kludgy. You could, conceivably, build as follows: 16 14 14 8 8 14 Human 1 Barbarian: Extra Rage, Intimidating Rage 2 Hexblade 3 Hexblade: Practiced Spellcaster 4 Hexblade 5 Hexblade (Dark Companion ACF) 6 Hexblade: Obtain Familiar, Spell Focus (Enchantment) 7 Hexblade 8 Hexblade 9 Hexblade: Improved Familiar (Howler) 10+ Hexblade (suggested feats: Leadership, Ability Focus (Hexblade's Curse), Reckless Rage, Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment, Retributive Spell, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Arcane Strike) There are a few silver linings here. First of all, if you get a familiar via Obtain Familiar, its abilities are based straight on your Hexblade level, rather than your level -3 (although, in this case, you're level -1 from your Barbarian dip). Howlers already start with Dex 17 and nat AC +5, and with a minimum of another +4 by the time you get it (so AC 22) they are fairly resilient. It's still stuck with half your hit points, though, so prioritize your Con amulet. Put whatever protective items you have access to and legal can fit on a large monstrous beast on it. Don't take it into town, Howlers generally being KOS in civilized areas–well, maybe you could ride it into Highport and look like a real badass, huh? This honestly isn't a bad way to go, as far as Hexblade builds go–you have 4 ways to debuff (Dark Companion, Howler, Curse, Intimidating Rage) which means you can often land your own budget Hexblade spells; keep in mind that Hexblades get a few good spells at lower levels, and if you have your debuffs up, your saves will be as hard to make as a Wizard's normally would, so you can drop Tasha's, Confusion, Phantasmal Killer, etc., for the win. Keep in mind especially those spells like the above that are at 'budget levels' for Hexblades, as they pack a lot of punch, and most are Illusion or Enchantment school for the extra Focus boost. If you need your Howler to tank, you can drop Augment Familiar on it and mock-Druid. I'm not a big fan of Hexblade, but I'd play this build; it's got some neat kicks to it. As far as 'trick builds' go, I'd rather sit with this one than a no-BAB marshal mutt or a diplomacizer bard... especially if I was playing a spellcaster. I mean, -10 to enemy saves? Are we playing Baldur's Gate here? You don't need Practiced Spellcaster to do this. Practiced Spellcaster cannot increase your Arcane Spellcaster Level for prereqs. That's why you can't have a level 1 wizard with practiced spellcaster and Craft Wondrous Item. That is also why you can take a Hippogriff at level 7 of Hexblade, despite having a caster level of 3. You have seven levels in an Arcane Spellcasting Class so you meet the Arcane Spellcaster Level Requirement. And yes, stacking the negatives you can get from Hexblade in it's class features is cool. You just don't need to use Practiced Spellcaster to meet any prereqs. (And you can't.)
_metz_ 10-23-07, 04:42 AM	You don't need Practiced Spellcaster to do this. Practiced Spellcaster cannot increase your Arcane Spellcaster Level for prereqs. That's why you can't have a level 1 wizard with practiced spellcaster and Craft Wondrous Item. Actually it does. Don't know what you are citing. Can be a fighter2/wiz1 with practiced spellcaster and you qualify when you can next take a feat, for Craft Wondrous Item. From the RULES: CRAFT WONDROUS ITEM [ITEM CREATION] Prerequisite: Caster level 3rd. Practiced spellcaster increases CASTER level so it does in fact allow you to meet the prerequisites.
jstorrie 10-23-07, 07:23 PM	Practiced Spellcaster is still a good idea for anyone taking many levels of Hexblade. Tasha's for only 2 rounds is not such a great save-or-die.
Hariman 10-23-07, 08:53 PM	Actually it does. Don't know what you are citing. Can be a fighter2/wiz1 with practiced spellcaster and you qualify when you can next take a feat, for Craft Wondrous Item. Practiced spellcaster increases CASTER level so it does in fact allow you to meet the prerequisites. Of item creation feats only. (You've got me there, I'm used to dealing with Prestige Classes and other feats.) Not for the prerequisites of the Improved Familiar feats, which have prereqs that are listed as "Arcane Spellcaster Level". And yes, the Hexblade Caster Level sucks. Even paladins get a better caster level. I'm citing the D&D FAQ, page 27.